Premium Sliver Deck

[ELD]

Slivers are coming!!! (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg%2Fdaily%2Farcana%2F242&dcmp=ilc-mtgrss#63589)

Wizards is all about making products people can buy now. The duel decks were great. From the Vaults have been huge. I look forward to this one now too!

[jimmerz213]

The only way Im going to get one is if its got foil Winged, Hibernation, or Queen. Those would be totally worth it. I wonder what the "foil box" is going to be.

[C.P.]

I just hope that they print enough.

Seems fine otherwise, I'm looking forward to replacing my korean misprint Winged in my EDH deck.

[Dan Turner]

All I see her is WoTC/Hasbro trying to print more money.

I see a few problems with all these special sets.

1.) Too many per year will push people away from them.
2.) It draws away from the collectible aspect of the game since it makes it just pretty much a boxed game along the lines of monopoly. (obviously Monopoly does not get new expansions every month or so)
3.) too limited on some products, Where I live I can not get a DvD at all no one carries it.

It is like they are trying too hard to serve both sides of the gaming world here.

They want to make a product that is good for tournaments (IE packs)

But then they are trying to pull in a casual crowd that is already buying product, I mean maybe not $100 worth every month or so like they want.

I believe they are going to disenfranchise one side or the other before they completely flood the market with boxed sets.

[beastman]

I think pinder, volt, and roddy vr just came a little.:laugh:

[RoddyVR]

I'm drooling. Just noticed the release date is in november... almost a week after my Bday. How does it usualy get decided which stores have these types of things? Should i start bugging the local stores now to get them? Or am i gonna have to be driving to every Walmart within 200 miles to try to ind one on the day of release?

[beastman]

I'd ask the local store if they're getting them and then ask them to hold one aside for you. These premium decks have seemed to fly off the shelves where I live and they are always kind of pricey too. I just hope they have shiny winged slivers and hibernation slivers too.

[scrumdogg]

I think pinder, volt, and roddy vr just came a little.:laugh:

A little? There are are multiple keyboards (and jeans) that are in need of 'maintenance' right now.... It would be nearly inconceivable that WOTC doesn't address the foil holes in the Sliver-verse with this set...that being said, I have to get one for the Sliver Queen but I will bet cash money that the Slivers are all Highlander... Meaning if you want a playset of any particular one, be prepared to squeal like a pig...

[Volt]

If it contains Hibernation Sliver and Winged Sliver, then I'm happy. Everything else is gravy.

Does anybody know if the DCI reserve list applies to these "premium decks?" I ask because Sliver Queen is on the list.

And, yeah, I doubt there's going to be more than 1 of any given sliver in the deck, which means you'll have to get to buy 4 precons to get a playset. *groan*

[Giles]

And, yeah, I doubt there's going to be more than 1 of any given sliver in the deck, which means you'll have to get to buy 4 precons to get a playset. *groan*

This deck hast to be 5-color, or else this idea is pointless. Thus it is most likely a singleton deck, except of the mana base.

[RoddyVR]

Are there realy enough crappy anycolor lands to make a 60 card 5 color highlander sliver deck anything but absolute suck (as a constructed deck)?

Without real Duals and fetches (and i doubt they'd put foil polluted deltas into this, or even shocklands), good luck getting the mana base to work for a 5 color sliver deck.
That's not to mention that it realy would need more then 1 each of muscle and sinew to be worthwile as a deck.
Are the other precons as unplayable as i'm imagining this thing would have to be?
Unfortunately i'm afraid i probably agree that it'll be no more then 2 of any one sliver (except maybe gemhide cause its realy needed, and recent enough that they wont care to put out extras of it).

As i understand the reserve list doesnt apply to foil cards (they use the term "premium" i believe). And i realy like the reasoning that they had to make this whole thing foil just so they could foil out the queen.
I realy hope all 5 of the tempest commons are in this. I dont realy care about any of the other old slivers (can already get crystal foil) (edit: bah, need hibernation too). It would be nice if they foil out all the tempest and stronghold slivers, but that deck would REALY suck (none of the tempest uncommons are worth a dam, and the 3 nonblue stronghold uncommons suck too).
Be nice if they put an Aether vial into the deck to help the manabase out.

[DrJones]

What I'm wondering, is what non-sliver cards will be in there, if any. Some form of non-basic land has to be in there, and the tempest disenchant is incredibly cool.

[Mr.C]

What I'm wondering, is what non-sliver cards will be in there, if any. Some form of non-basic land has to be in there, and the tempest disenchant is incredibly cool.

Dual lands, obviously. Is there any other way to build a 5 color sliver deck?

That would be a hilarious way to skirt the reserved list. Print foil dual lands. :p

[beastman]

They would never print foil duals. If they did though...shit, I don't even want to think of the riots that would ensue.

[Jak]

They would never print foil duals. If they did though...shit, I don't even want to think of the riots that would ensue.

I bet a few people would send emails about how angry they are and then go out to buy them. Crazy riots.

[from Cairo]

I'd like to see some of the old slivers foiled out as much as the next guy, but the choices they are making with all these recent stand alone box sets worries me.

[scrumdogg]

I don't see a great deal to be concerned about, WOTC (or more likely Hasbro) is money-grubbing - that is what companies do in a capitalist society. The fact that they are doing so while aiming at the casual/collector market without impacting their existing tournament base or structure should be viewed as a positive sign. Are we really concerned that Dragons & Angels & Demons & Slivers are getting some reprints?

[Watcher487]

I don't see a great deal to be concerned about, WOTC (or more likely Hasbro) is money-grubbing - that is what companies do in a capitalist society. The fact that they are doing so while aiming at the casual/collector market without impacting their existing tournament base or structure should be viewed as a positive sign. Are we really concerned that Dragons & Angels & Demons & Slivers are getting some reprints?

Scrumm the bigger problem isn't that WOTC is money-grubbing, it's the fact that DEALERS are going to raise that price well beyond that $35 MSRP a la the Dragon collection. When that deck was introduced at GenCon the Wizards location was Swarmed by Dealers grubbing those limited boxes to just turn around and sell them at between $85 to $100 each. Shoot, on the last day of GenCon StarCity was looking to grub up more from other dealers FOR OVER $75 EACH.

If the Deck is printed reasonably (for $35 MSRP it better be printed like Angels & Demons) Wizards will get thier money especially from Stores, and the consumers will be able to finally pimp thier Sliver Deck.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

I'm thinking the currently popular in type 2 Vivids/Reflecting Pool combo for mana...

[scrumdogg]

Scrumm the bigger problem isn't that WOTC is money-grubbing, it's the fact that DEALERS are going to raise that price well beyond that $35 MSRP a la the Dragon collection. When that deck was introduced at GenCon the Wizards location was Swarmed by Dealers grubbing those limited boxes to just turn around and sell them at between $85 to $100 each. Shoot, on the last day of GenCon StarCity was looking to grub up more from other dealers FOR OVER $75 EACH.

If the Deck is printed reasonably (for $35 MSRP it better be printed like Angels & Demons) Wizards will get thier money especially from Stores, and the consumers will be able to finally pimp thier Sliver Deck.

The limited quantity is the main issue, from my perspective, and being held hostage by dealers. Good vendors, though, will help you as much as possible in pre-ordering & attaining these as they still make a profit & retain your business/goodwill. If they get extras & then sell those for market value (whatever that may be) that is part of the system. Nothing says an individual couldn't do the same thing, if they put some effort into it (hmm, note to self, start plotting...). Shame on Wizards for artifically inflating the prices, they would be better off making these not-quite-so-limited and just sellling a metric fuckton more.

Those lands would make a lot of sense, although they are already available in foil, are rotating out of Type 2 in a couple months, and with limited quantity does Wizards really need a selling point based on the land? I would like to see some of the old, cool 5 color lands be available in foil (i.e. Undiscovered Paradise).

[AngryTroll]

The only (good) Slivers not in foil at this point are Winged, Hibernation, and Queen, right?

You can already foil almost the whole deck (DCI Swords and Crystalline), but it would cost a fortune to buy four of these at even $35 each...that works out to what, $20 per Winged and $20 per Hibernation (assuming you run 3 Winged)? Savage.

[jimmerz213]

The only (good) Slivers not in foil at this point are Winged, Hibernation, and Queen, right?

You can already foil almost the whole deck (DCI Swords and Crystalline), but it would cost a fortune to buy four of these at even $35 each...that works out to what, $20 per Winged and $20 per Hibernation (assuming you run 3 Winged)? Savage.

Personally I wouldnt mind a foil Talon sliver too, I have run a couple of them in Meathooks before. Winged and Hibernation are the big ones though. Queen would be nice, but I would be surprised if she is in this set.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

Personally I wouldnt mind a foil Talon sliver too, I have run a couple of them in Meathooks before. Winged and Hibernation are the big ones though. Queen would be nice, but I would be surprised if she is in this set.

I think I would be surprised if she were not in the set. This is primarily for collectors and casual players, and there's nothing either of those groups like more than a five color bad ass lord. (in foil!)

[ELD]

Scrumm the bigger problem isn't that WOTC is money-grubbing, it's the fact that DEALERS are going to raise that price well beyond that $35 MSRP a la the Dragon collection. When that deck was introduced at GenCon the Wizards location was Swarmed by Dealers grubbing those limited boxes to just turn around and sell them at between $85 to $100 each. Shoot, on the last day of GenCon StarCity was looking to grub up more from other dealers FOR OVER $75 EACH.

Dealers don't set prices, the demand for the product sets the price. It does a dealer no good to put a $100 price tag on a box set if there are not people who are willing to pay that much. There are limited amounts of everything in this world, and each thing goes to the person who wants it the most if the free market is allowed to do it's thing.


I don't see a great deal to be concerned about, WOTC (or more likely Hasbro) is money-grubbing - that is what companies do in a capitalist society.

Show me someone who isn't "money-grubbing." We all try and do the best for ourselves, and a product like Magic can only be born out of a capitalist system.

[RoddyVR]

The only (good) Slivers not in foil at this point are Winged, Hibernation, and Queen, right?

You can already foil almost the whole deck (DCI Swords and Crystalline), but it would cost a fortune to buy four of these at even $35 each...that works out to what, $20 per Winged and $20 per Hibernation (assuming you run 3 Winged)? Savage.

I actualy think that $35 is a prety generous price for a foil deck. 60 cards, means its just a bit over 50 cents per card. Most stores i've been to sell plain slivers at that much, forget foil ones (i have found some common foil slivers for less then that, but it was all crap ones)
If there's a Crystalline, and a Muscle in there, that's $7 already. If the lands arent just basics (which i just cant immagine) they'll be $1 cards too. And then there's the Foil Mythic (still hoping queen) and rares.

Yes, the initial investment to get 4x Hybernation and winged will kick your wallet in the junk. But i think most of us who do that (by the time these come out, i'll probably be upto wanting 4 of them too), will be able to trade/sell quite a bit of the non "needed slivers" from the deck for a good chunk of our money back.
Its the people who pay 70-100 for one of these decks that i feel realy bad for (hope to god i can avoid being one of them). The worst part of this side of it, is that if the Mythic is the Queen, then people will think that spending $70 on these things is worth it, cause foils tend to be double the cost of the normal card, and with queen being a $20 card for years, thats $40 in just that.... but that logic will fail miserably here.
Sliver Queen has stayed at its $20 price (even while better sliver legends go for $5 or something) only because it was printed long enough ago that the run wasnt gigantic and its on the reserve list so they werent gonna print more. Now if they put queen into this, it will increase the number of Sliver Queens running around by quite a bit, and i suspect the end result will be that the normal Queen will drop quite a bit in price, and the Foil one wont be worth as much as the normal one is worth now.

Pop quiz for sliver fans. Without looking it up anywhere, can you remember what the black tempest common sliver is (we've wished for the blue, white and red ones on this thread now... green muscle already being a foil). I had it narrowed down in my head to one of two black slivers before i looked it up.

[ELD]

I was all over the Tempest Common Black Sliver.

I agree that $35 is low, and the demand will likely drive it much higher, which is good for stores. It will be nice to see stores make a little money for a change. People don't see that stores are getting absolutely destroyed by Wizards policies for the regular sets. They print so many Boxes that they are sold at just a few dollars over cost. Wizards controls the supply exclusively, so they get to fix the wholesale cost. They make a killing, while the stores that support the hobby are going under all over the place. These sets are a great thing for the stores, as they can get at least full retail on them. The key to making that happen is the limited quantities. If SCG were able to get a million of these, then the price would end up being under retail, and the value would be even lower.

[Bardo]

Are there realy enough crappy anycolor lands to make a 60 card 5 color highlander sliver deck anything but absolute suck (as a constructed deck)?

Between Terramorphic Expanse, cheap artifact mana-fixers (Prismatic Lens, Chromatic Star, Wayfarer's Bauble), no CC slivers, a good balance of basic lands and maybe something cool like Ancient Ziggurat as a 1 or 2-of, they can pull off a reliable 5c manabase on the cheap.

[Volt]

Question: Is anybody actually going to play this deck? Just sayin.

[Bardo]

Definitely, just not against each other. (Not more than once, anyhow). Slivers are popular among casual players, and most of the cards will still be shit value, even if they are foil.

[Bryant Cook]

Sliver Queen has stayed at its $20 price (even while better sliver legends go for $5 or something) only because it was printed long enough ago that the run wasnt gigantic and its on the reserve list so they werent gonna print more. Now if they put queen into this, it will increase the number of Sliver Queens running around by quite a bit, and i suspect the end result will be that the normal Queen will drop quite a bit in price, and the Foil one wont be worth as much as the normal one is worth now.


Thunder Dragon wants a word with you.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Dealers don't set prices, the demand for the product sets the price. It does a dealer no good to put a $100 price tag on a box set if there are not people who are willing to pay that much. There are limited amounts of everything in this world, and each thing goes to the person who wants it the most if the free market is allowed to do it's thing.





Come now, that's not an accurate reflection of how it happens. WOTC sells the dealer a product at a profit, and the dealer then sells it to us at a profit. If demand alone were allowed to set prices, then it would be a very different story. Instead, cost and profit considerations factor in, and questions of expected demand are factored in--usually to inflate the price. All kinds of products are sold at inflated prices despite apparently non-existent demand. That they are subsequently discounted to get them off the shelves before they're thrown out does not mean that demand sets prices, only that it can influence them to a limited extent. Projected demands are more important than real demands, since that's what's factored into the original setting. That's going to be especially relevant here, especially considering the success of FTV.

Also... the market isn't free, and rational markets are a myth. But that's not relevant to this thread.

[Bardo]

Discussion on market economics and theory belong on another site. Let's keep this on-topic.

[Malchar]

I love all the reprints and boxed sets that Wizards had been making. Ideally, I'd like to see all expensive cards reprinted. This drives the prices back down to Earth, where they belong. Magic cards should be worth as little as they cost to make so that more players can have access to the game.

If I were to play Chess, for example, I wouldn't expect to have queens cost more money than other pieces just because they're more powerful or rarer. It would also be silly to have to pay $20 per piece just to be able to play the game. On top of that, I'm not exactly comfortable with the fact that my Magic decks are more valuable volumetrically than $20 bills, and that I have to lug it around downtown and lay it all over a table with a bunch of shady characters nearby whenever I want to play.

[RoddyVR]

I just realized something. What is the point of calling whatever Mythic they put into this a Mythic? Other then the color of the expansion symbol, it has no bearing on anything. Its not rarer then the other cards in this box. Take the foil Winged sliver or Hybernation for example, its will just as rare as the Foil Mythic they include in this set.
If they foil out Winged and Queen, the Foil winged will likely be in bigger demand then the Queen. Because in addition to the casual players and foil collectors, there will also be the tournament players looking for winged (in multiples) where there will be very few people who'll want a foil Queen but not the Winged to go with it.
If they make it a Mythic that isnt a Sliver Legend (which is realy stupid to do, but with Woc....) then it would actualy be more common then the foil old slivers because there would be some of that Mythic in the other sets, but no other foil old slivers.

The only way to make the Mythic more rare then the other foil slivers, is to put 4x of the commons, 2x of the uncomons and 1x of the rare/mythics in the deck.
If they do that and still include the slivers they really NEED to foil out (ie winged, hibernation, talon) then we might all need to only buy 1 (or 2) of these things... and it may even be a playable sliver deck right out of the box.


On top of that, I'm not exactly comfortable with the fact that my Magic decks are more valuable volumetrically than $20 bills, and that I have to lug it around downtown and lay it all over a table with a bunch of shady characters nearby whenever I want to play.Wave of the future... Proxying duals by putting $20 bills into sleeves. The bills would have to be cut to size, and a couple of them would have to be glued together to make the thickness right... but for a proxy of a Underground Sea, that would probably still be a good financial move.

[Malchar]

Maybe only one in eight boxed sets will actually contain the mythic rare? Other than that, it helps to teach people what rarity really means. The abilities on the card are rare, not exactly the card itself.

[beastman]

I'm pretty sure that for the mythic they'll just do something lame like making sliver legion mythic.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

I just realized something. What is the point of calling whatever Mythic they put into this a Mythic? Other then the color of the expansion symbol, it has no bearing on anything. Its not rarer then the other cards in this box.

The rarity denotes the status of the figure in question as well as the actual meta-rarity of the card. You might have a million Keldon Halberdiers, but someone like Mishra, he's a one of a kind guy. The new mythic rarity (while I'm not really a fan) denotes that this is something/someone which is absolutely epic. A planeswalker, a super bad ass angel etc. The queen of all the slivers certainly falls into that category.

[whienot]

Just wait and see. They're going to keyword tarmogoyf and print Slivergoyf in this deck.

All slivers gain tarmogoyf.(This creature gets +x/+x where x is equal to each card type in all graveyards.)