GGoober
08-03-2009, 05:12 PM
I saw an interesting list on deckcheck that placed Top8 in an event:
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=28209
It utilizes Goblin Welder and Master Transmuter in a Stax shell to create a lock against the opponent. The main idea is to get out Master Transmuter/Goblin Welder to cheat out bombs (Titan, Inkwell), and to use Transmuter to reset Tangle Wires and cycle Titan for land destruction. Note that in a rainbow-based manabase, Titan becomes a one-sided Armageddon, leaving your lands untouched. That's the beauty of the deck.
I loved the idea and list but I disliked the most part of his deck. I didn't like how it was 3 colors, with white mainly for Armageddon. It's already difficult to handle 2 colors in a Stax shell (recent success is Dutch Stax with a green splash). So I took his list and tweaked it a little, to further abuse Tangle Wire and Trinisphere, and to break the symmetry of Winter Orb.
I did not like how his deck will be less functionable under Blood Moon. The new list I propose is just a little blue heavy but can play well without the blue cards. His list would be white-dead under a Moon, and I don't want to run into such problems. Back to basics is bad for this deck, but there's no way out for that matchup anyway, and B2B is losing some popularity recently.
The deck only runs very little blue, so in cases of moon effects, if you don't have Mox Diamond, you can live off the colorless and red aspects and still Weld things around. I've explored a similar idea with this deck, but never got to build it since I was too worried about Welder dying to StP, or be unable to play Welder since I'm playing Chalice@1. I took the brave step of removing Chalice@1 for reasons I shall state below. But here's a decklist before I rant on again.
Lands: 25 (24 mana-producers)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Gemstone Mine
2 City of Brass
2 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell's Vale
Acceleration/Card-advantage: 14
4 Mox Diamond
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Intuition
Cheaters: 6
4 Goblin Welder
2 Master Transmuter
Prison: 12
4 Winter Orb
4 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere
Win-conditions: 4
3 Sundering Titan
1 Inkwell Leviathan
Sideboard: 15 cards
1 Platinum Angel
1 Nullstone Gargolye
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Smokestack
3 Pithing Needle
4 Propaganda
Other options:
REB/BEB/Boil/Chill/Defense Grid/Powder Keg.
DECK-EXPLANATION
No Chalice??
One big reason to not include Chalice is that you have Welder and don't want to run into conflicts with casting Welder. It is true that Transmuter/Welder will inevitably become StP targets but this deck works by resolving Trinisphere/Winter Orb asap and accomplishes it much more often when the deck has good card-draw off TfKs. The deck wants to set up a Tangle-Wire/Orb/3Sphere lock before resolving Welders since Welder is not useful at all in the early game.
Once you set up 3Sphere and WOrb/Tangle Wire, you can safely resolve Welder without fear of StP and removals. I am testing another list that includes Chalice but without WOrbs and I prefer the synergy to WOrbs than being fearful of StP against Welders. Another reason why this deck does not fear StP is because if you do get a Titan online, an StP would force them to lose another 2 lands, making them helpless in the face of a 3Sphere/Tangle Wire.
Without Chalice, I can also now safely resolve Pithing Needle post board, against troublesome decks (Survival etc) and at the same time I can protect myself against Disk/Pernicious Deed, which is a big trouble when resolved.
Staxless??
I was disappointed that the original list on deckcheck did not run Smokestack. I went about playing with Smokestack and realized that I did not need it at all. It was great in the SB if I wanted to play the Stax role against control but with the synergy of the deck, Smokestack is in fact a little too slow for this Staxless Stax variant. It is possible to include 1 Smokestack in the MD as an Intuition target but Sundering Titan + Wastelock together with WOrb + Tanglewire/3Sphere provides enough lock. If you get either WORb/3Sphere with Tanglewire out, you can rest assured that their creatures will become tapped. One drawback of this deck is that it cannot contain aggro as well as White Stax could since it had Magus/Armageddon and Ghostly Prison/Moat/Humility to completely shut down aggro. This deck needs Tangle Wire to tap down opposing creatures, or rely on turn 1 3Sphere to buy some time. The nice thing however is that you can weld/transmute larger deadlier creatures which Geddon Stax is incapable of doing so. The strength of this deck also lies in the inbuilt permanent recursion in Welder/Transmuter. The fact that the ability can be reused makes it potentially powerful in Stax-builds that have little to no card-advantage.
Master-Transmuter
I really want to test 3 in the MD. She is what pushes the Staxless nature of this deck ahead. She enables fast Titans in hand without the help of TfK. She can recylce Titan over to armageddon asymmetrically (you run no basic land types). She can bounce WOrb at the end of your opponents turn to free your lands or reset/bounce Tangle Wires. If you can resolve one Titan and recycle Titan, you should most likely have the game. The issue with Transmuter is that even with a Stax shell, she is too slow (4cc) although if you have TfK on turn 1, you can always ditch her into the yard and weld her out later if you need to.
This deck is still in its initial stages, but I feel that the Winter Orb approach is the right direction for the deck. Since the deck cheats its creatures/permanents into play via Welder/Transmuter, WOrb seems ideal even though you do not get to untap. WOrb has tremendous synergy with 3Sphere or Tangle-Wire, and complements each other well. The deck has a better card-draw than regular Stax but does not have a stronger swarm aggro backup plan. However, against swarm aggro, Propagandas in the SB + WOrb would complement each other well and buy some time. Intuition and Tabernacle in the MD allows you to tutor up a Wrath effect under Tangle-Wire/WOrb, acting like Magus+Armageddon in white stax.
The deck is new and has potential of development, so for the Welder lovers, here's another thread for discussion.
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=28209
It utilizes Goblin Welder and Master Transmuter in a Stax shell to create a lock against the opponent. The main idea is to get out Master Transmuter/Goblin Welder to cheat out bombs (Titan, Inkwell), and to use Transmuter to reset Tangle Wires and cycle Titan for land destruction. Note that in a rainbow-based manabase, Titan becomes a one-sided Armageddon, leaving your lands untouched. That's the beauty of the deck.
I loved the idea and list but I disliked the most part of his deck. I didn't like how it was 3 colors, with white mainly for Armageddon. It's already difficult to handle 2 colors in a Stax shell (recent success is Dutch Stax with a green splash). So I took his list and tweaked it a little, to further abuse Tangle Wire and Trinisphere, and to break the symmetry of Winter Orb.
I did not like how his deck will be less functionable under Blood Moon. The new list I propose is just a little blue heavy but can play well without the blue cards. His list would be white-dead under a Moon, and I don't want to run into such problems. Back to basics is bad for this deck, but there's no way out for that matchup anyway, and B2B is losing some popularity recently.
The deck only runs very little blue, so in cases of moon effects, if you don't have Mox Diamond, you can live off the colorless and red aspects and still Weld things around. I've explored a similar idea with this deck, but never got to build it since I was too worried about Welder dying to StP, or be unable to play Welder since I'm playing Chalice@1. I took the brave step of removing Chalice@1 for reasons I shall state below. But here's a decklist before I rant on again.
Lands: 25 (24 mana-producers)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Gemstone Mine
2 City of Brass
2 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell's Vale
Acceleration/Card-advantage: 14
4 Mox Diamond
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Intuition
Cheaters: 6
4 Goblin Welder
2 Master Transmuter
Prison: 12
4 Winter Orb
4 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere
Win-conditions: 4
3 Sundering Titan
1 Inkwell Leviathan
Sideboard: 15 cards
1 Platinum Angel
1 Nullstone Gargolye
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Smokestack
3 Pithing Needle
4 Propaganda
Other options:
REB/BEB/Boil/Chill/Defense Grid/Powder Keg.
DECK-EXPLANATION
No Chalice??
One big reason to not include Chalice is that you have Welder and don't want to run into conflicts with casting Welder. It is true that Transmuter/Welder will inevitably become StP targets but this deck works by resolving Trinisphere/Winter Orb asap and accomplishes it much more often when the deck has good card-draw off TfKs. The deck wants to set up a Tangle-Wire/Orb/3Sphere lock before resolving Welders since Welder is not useful at all in the early game.
Once you set up 3Sphere and WOrb/Tangle Wire, you can safely resolve Welder without fear of StP and removals. I am testing another list that includes Chalice but without WOrbs and I prefer the synergy to WOrbs than being fearful of StP against Welders. Another reason why this deck does not fear StP is because if you do get a Titan online, an StP would force them to lose another 2 lands, making them helpless in the face of a 3Sphere/Tangle Wire.
Without Chalice, I can also now safely resolve Pithing Needle post board, against troublesome decks (Survival etc) and at the same time I can protect myself against Disk/Pernicious Deed, which is a big trouble when resolved.
Staxless??
I was disappointed that the original list on deckcheck did not run Smokestack. I went about playing with Smokestack and realized that I did not need it at all. It was great in the SB if I wanted to play the Stax role against control but with the synergy of the deck, Smokestack is in fact a little too slow for this Staxless Stax variant. It is possible to include 1 Smokestack in the MD as an Intuition target but Sundering Titan + Wastelock together with WOrb + Tanglewire/3Sphere provides enough lock. If you get either WORb/3Sphere with Tanglewire out, you can rest assured that their creatures will become tapped. One drawback of this deck is that it cannot contain aggro as well as White Stax could since it had Magus/Armageddon and Ghostly Prison/Moat/Humility to completely shut down aggro. This deck needs Tangle Wire to tap down opposing creatures, or rely on turn 1 3Sphere to buy some time. The nice thing however is that you can weld/transmute larger deadlier creatures which Geddon Stax is incapable of doing so. The strength of this deck also lies in the inbuilt permanent recursion in Welder/Transmuter. The fact that the ability can be reused makes it potentially powerful in Stax-builds that have little to no card-advantage.
Master-Transmuter
I really want to test 3 in the MD. She is what pushes the Staxless nature of this deck ahead. She enables fast Titans in hand without the help of TfK. She can recylce Titan over to armageddon asymmetrically (you run no basic land types). She can bounce WOrb at the end of your opponents turn to free your lands or reset/bounce Tangle Wires. If you can resolve one Titan and recycle Titan, you should most likely have the game. The issue with Transmuter is that even with a Stax shell, she is too slow (4cc) although if you have TfK on turn 1, you can always ditch her into the yard and weld her out later if you need to.
This deck is still in its initial stages, but I feel that the Winter Orb approach is the right direction for the deck. Since the deck cheats its creatures/permanents into play via Welder/Transmuter, WOrb seems ideal even though you do not get to untap. WOrb has tremendous synergy with 3Sphere or Tangle-Wire, and complements each other well. The deck has a better card-draw than regular Stax but does not have a stronger swarm aggro backup plan. However, against swarm aggro, Propagandas in the SB + WOrb would complement each other well and buy some time. Intuition and Tabernacle in the MD allows you to tutor up a Wrath effect under Tangle-Wire/WOrb, acting like Magus+Armageddon in white stax.
The deck is new and has potential of development, so for the Welder lovers, here's another thread for discussion.