[ZEN] Rumor Mill

[Otter]

It's about time they printed a completely unplayable planeswalker, IMO. Even original Chandra had potential.

Yeah, at least Lorwyn Chandra can kill one or two creatures before she dies. Nissa forces Elvish Warriors onto your decklist while you kick and scream in agony. Neat.

[Barook]

Infact, they had to improve her cleavage on the card art to give her at least one redeeming factor. :laugh: Just compare it with her full art:

http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/features/feature55_Nissawide.jpg

[flrn]

Zendikar already has fetchies and some pretty nice cards and now you also want to have a planeswalker which could be way too strong? I think the card is good as it is. We wont see her in tourney play, but a nice card for casuals.

[Otter]

Zendikar already has fetchies and some pretty nice cards and now you also want to have a planeswalker which could be way too strong? I think the card is good as it is. We wont see her in tourney play, but a nice card for casuals.

You're completely right that we're getting far too many juicy things that legitimately complain about her, but I'm still a bit disappointed. She's just so incredibly biased towards Timmy. The rest of the planeswalkers tend to cater a bit to Timmy with flashy ultimates, while being playable cards for Spike through having "useful now" +1 and -1 abilities. Nissa does nothing that Elves can't do in better ways already, she's every bit a Timmy card and I think they could have done a better design of it.

I think I'd be okay with her if she was either incredibly restrictive in her uses or a complete Timmy card, but she's both. She only works in one type of deck and she's not even impressive at it. That's not setting off the level of, "Wow, cool!" that I think planeswalkers deserve.

[Aggro_zombies]

Infact, they had to improve her cleavage on the card art to give her at least one redeeming factor. :laugh: Just compare it with her full art:

http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/features/feature55_Nissawide.jpg
HA! Good catch, I never would have noticed that.

The demon guy seems like it would be nuts with fetches and Exploration. At five mana, he's a little pricey, but Exploration, Mox Diamond, and Life from the Loam all grease the wheels of his casting. Could be an interesting addition to Aggro Loam as a replacement for Terravore - guy who doesn't care about the graveyard, gets big, and can burn someone to death in a couple turns.

[akiratheoni]

Infact, they had to improve her cleavage on the card art to give her at least one redeeming factor. :laugh: Just compare it with her full art:

http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/features/feature55_Nissawide.jpg
It was the other way around; she had the cleavage initially but the ESRB thought the cleavaged Nissa was too risque for the Duel of the Planeswalkers game so they had Wizards tone it down.

[Barook]

From SCG:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94880&stc=1&d=1252296396

Extremely powerful effect, but the charge time simply sucks. :rolleyes:

[hungryLIKEALION]

From SCG:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94880&stc=1&d=1252296396

Extremely powerful effect, but the charge time simply sucks. :rolleyes:
Man, if it wasn't SIX counters I would love this card. Still... maybe in combination with honden of the seeing winds, you could do something with this? ;\ man, I really wanna try to bust this card, but it doesn't seem very feasible.

Edit// Or in combination with Sygg, River Guide and some lightning bolts, you could charge it up in 3 turns? I'm probably putting too much thought into this since it'd be too hard to break to be worth playing, but still, it just seems so powerful. ;\

[Dark_Shakuras]

Man, if it wasn't SIX counters I would love this card. Still... maybe in combination with honden of the seeing winds, you could do something with this? ;\ man, I really wanna try to bust this card, but it doesn't seem very feasible.

Edit// Or in combination with Sygg, River Guide and some lightning bolts, you could charge it up in 3 turns? I'm probably putting too much thought into this since it'd be too hard to break to be worth playing, but still, it just seems so powerful. ;\

Problem is no mater what it takes 6 turns. Even if you draw 20 cards in a turn, it's one counter.

Only way to "cheat" it is to double quest counters. Doubling Beacon found a deck?

[morgan_coke]

My biggest problem with Nissa: The ultimate ability on a planeswalker should not lose to Moment's Peace.

Definitely not a card for competitive players since there is absolutely no reason to ever run this over Garruk. Would have been nice to see if she was competitive at 1GG, but we'll never get that chance now.

[Jade]

My biggest problem with Nissa: The ultimate ability on a planeswalker should not lose to Moment's Peace.


The Ultimate of Tezz loses to Moment's peace too.
Still, it's an awful Planeswalker.

[heroicraptor]

My biggest problem with Nissa: The ultimate ability on a planeswalker should not lose to Moment's Peace.
What? Nissa just dumps creatures into play.

[Skeggi]

I like Nissa. I think she'll be excellent in casual games. I wouldn't like it if too many cards in one set would be Legacy-viable. So far we've got Fetchlands, Instigator, and some other random stuff that may see play. If we do get all five enemy Fetchlands; we're at six Legacy playable rares already. I don't need any more incentive to buy the set to be honest.

[Aggro_zombies]

Problem is no mater what it takes 6 turns. Even if you draw 20 cards in a turn, it's one counter.

Only way to "cheat" it is to double quest counters. Doubling Beacon found a deck?
More like Clockspinning, which is on-color.

That enchantment will be broken as fuck in EDH, but only in duels or in decks that can cheat on the counters. Also, Nissa is going right into my Harem Elf deck.

[eq.firemind]

@ 2 arts of Nissa:
Her chest is no dought attractive and very fuckable, but looks out of place, so I like X-Box version more.

On the other side, the direction is right: from tiny glimpse of female flesh to light erotic to naked boys&girls to hardcore pornography. Just imagine:
No need to buy/download loads of pornfilms 'cause you can masturbate on Magic!
You can play M:tG with your girlfriend with awesome results!
And you can make lots of cash by illegaly selling Magic to kids!!
<edit>And you will never ever say something like "he owned me pretty bad" because his deck plays some realy huge beatsticks.</edit>

So go-go Wizards, make it real!

[Digital Devil]

@ 2 arts of Nissa:
Her chest is no dought attractive and very fuckable, but looks out of place, so I like X-Box version more.

On the other side, the direction is right: from tiny glimpse of female flesh to light erotic to naked boys&girls to hardcore pornography. Just imagine:
No need to buy/download loads of pornfilms 'cause you can masturate on Magic!
You can play M:tG with your girlfriend with awesome results!
And you can make lots of cash by illegaly selling Magic to kids!!

So go-go Wizards, make it real!
OMG it's just a card. I can't imagine what may happen if you (I hope for you it has already happened) meet with a real human female. It's hard for me to think about someone and his girlfriend playing MTG instead of doing "the bad touch". Of course the scene I imagine involves

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ex/113.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/ia/291.jpg

But that's what a twisted mind would think. Talking seriously, Nissa sucks. If she sucks c***s in hell, that's none of my business. As a card, she sucks. It's a Legacy Forum, after all.

[eq.firemind]

I can't imagine what may happen if you (I hope for you it has already happened) meet with a real human female.
HUMAN? FEMALE?? YUM-YUM, SOUNDS EDIBLE!!

By the way, all 3 ZEN planeswalkers are not good for Legacy.
And Ob Nixilis looks very nice as a finisher in some Exploration/Loam/Crucible deck...

[GreenOne]

HUMAN? FEMALE?? YUM-YUM, SOUNDS EDIBLE!!

By the way, all 3 ZEN planeswalkers are not good for Legacy.
And Ob Nixilis looks very nice as a finisher in some Exploration/Loam/Crucible deck...
Isn't lord of extintion better here?

[MMogg]

Isn't lord of extintion better here?

Lord has to attack, whereas this new dude doesn't need to. Also, that would be damage and this is life loss. A little different, but a little more difficult to prevent/stop. More "combo" like in that one could "go off" and not give their opponent another turn to respond. All hypothetical of course.

I'll really need to make a scrubby Parallax Tide/Ob deck. :laugh:

[TheCramp]

Isn't lord of extinction better here?

Also, a non-grave dependent card in loam seems wise. (never mind that he's better with loam running...) I think that loam can support a 5cc threat, there just isn't one worth playing. A 5 drop which burns for 6 and swings for 9 the turn after you cast it seems fucking brutal.

[SilverGreen]

Duh! What a miss of the BG planeswalker with LftL...

[eq.firemind]

A 5 drop which burns for 6 and swings for 9 the turn after you cast it seems fucking brutal.
Now add Exploration and you have 12 uncounterable damage and 15/15 guy

[Tilde]

Problem is no mater what it takes 6 turns. Even if you draw 20 cards in a turn, it's one counter.

Only way to "cheat" it is to double quest counters. Doubling Beacon found a deck?

Brainstorming on an opponent's turn gives it counters, so there's that.

[hungryLIKEALION]

Problem is no mater what it takes 6 turns. Even if you draw 20 cards in a turn, it's one counter.

I was referring to the fact that you could get a counter on both your and your opponent's turn.

[Manhattan]

Brainstorming on an opponent's turn gives it counters, so there's that.

But you'll have to Brainstorm in their mainphase since it will already be too late in the end step. I honestly can't believe to what lengths Wizards can go to give Johnny their combocards. This card is so bad it hurts.

[MMogg]

But you'll have to Brainstorm in their mainphase since it will already be too late in the end step. I honestly can't believe to what lengths Wizards can go to give Johnny their combocards. This card is so bad it hurts.

What kills me is when they make cards just out of playability range. Printing cards that are shit in limited and constructed makes no sense, especially when someone spends money on a booster.

[Shugyosha]

The problem with Archmage ascension is, that you will obviously win anyways if only you draw two cards for six turns. I guess they are aiming at Howling mine with the card. It could be pretty broken in T2 howling mine/time sieve decks.

[yawg07]

Does Enchantress like this card?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94975&stc=1&d=1252382561

Luminarch Ascension - :1::w:
Enchantment

At the beginning of each of your opponent's end steps, if you took no damage this turn, you may put a quest counter on ~.

:1::w:: Put a 4/4 Angel token with flying onto the battlefield. Activate this ability only if there are 4 quest counters on ~.


Notice no sacrifice on this one. Seems good, when are you taking damage in Enchantress?
But as always there is Mesa :0

[Waikiki]

I think its great in multiplayer if but else its just too slow.

[Nidd]

This card looks really awesome. I guess it could be a good addition to Enchantress.

[Guevera59]

Seems bad in Enchantress, at least just not as good as Sigil. Ascension is too slow. Instead of dropping it early, which is the only time it would be good because it needs to build up counters, you need to be setting up board position. With Sigil you can drop it when you want to win and have instant 4/4's.

[TheCramp]

I realize that this is a T2 play, but Ranger of Eos for Scythe Tiger x2 in a deck with Knight of the Reliquary seems pretty powerful.

[Shugyosha]

Luminarch Ascension is pretty sick in a format with so many good removal spells.

If the thing is active you can spam 4/4 flyers for :1::w: multiple times a turn at instant speed! Its more or less an instant win from there because you can spam angels in his end step after the last quest counter went on in.
Very good against control decks and with white for Ascension 4-8 Swords/Path aren't far fetched to even get it active against other non-red decks. The card even does something for you when cast as your opponent has to deal damage to you or find an answer hopefully overextending in a way you can profit from.

As for the Krosan Grip arguement: In a deck with Counter/Top or lots of other enchantments it doesn't matter.

[miro]

I realize that this is a T2 play, but Ranger of Eos for Scythe Tiger x2 in a deck with Knight of the Reliquary seems pretty powerful.

also in this deck :

Realm Razer + Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

[xTrainx]

Anyone have any opinions the the Archmage Ascension card?

Archmage Ascension 2U
Enchantment Rare
At the beginning of each end step, if you drew two or more cards this turn, you may put a quest counter on Archmage Ascension.
As long as Archmage Ascension has six or more quest counters on it, if you would draw a card, you may instead search your library for a card, put that card into your hand, then shuffle your library.

I dunno if this was talked about yet or not.
I really like it as a concept -> doesn't it just seem slow though?

[MattH]

xTrainx, read the thread (or just the last couple pages) before you post, please!

The hardest part about fulfilling the Luminarch Ascension will be not using fetchlands, heh! I am super excited about this card. I have the feeling it might be the next EE or Chalice (cards that start off worth nothing, but later jump in price).

[rufus]

The hardest part about fulfilling the Luminarch Ascension will be not using fetchlands...

If it's "at the beginning of the end step" then you can fetch after putting the quest counter on the card. Honestly I don't see how it's going to be all that great in the eternal formats since you've got to wait through four of your opponent's turns before you get to use it.

[georgjorge]

Ascension is an interesting card...powerful effect, but wow does it suck if drawn a bit later in the game, so it would ask for some Brainstorms and Tops along with it to avoid that.

My first thought was to actually play it in Aggro and give it some mid- to lategame power, similar to Sylvan Library. Decks like Zoo often don't are attacked until later in the game because the opponent needs to stay on defense...

[MattH]

If it's "at the beginning of the end step" then you can fetch after putting the quest counter on the card. Honestly I don't see how it's going to be all that great in the eternal formats since you've got to wait through four of your opponent's turns before you get to use it.

Basically think of it as having Suspend 4 -- 1W, when an opponent damages you, add a time counter (and it can't have more than 4 time counters on it). The point is that it's nice to play it early when you might have 2 spare mana, and use it only later. If you have a deck with Plows, Paths, maybe Wraths, blockers, or planeswalkers that soak up a lot of attacks (helllooo, Elspeth!), you can reasonably expect to complete the quest, I think.

Actually I was misreading it, since you can just crack fetches on your own turn. That makes it even better.


EDIT: Also, did we really need ANOTHER version of Cancel? That's three versions just in Standard alone!

Sad to see Bloodghast is a rare. I don't even care about the haste, I just want to Buried Alive or Survival multiples of these away, then sacrifice them for profit (Bone Splinters, Attrition?).

Nissa Revane: wow, awkward to open in pack 3 of a draft, lol.

[Pastorofmuppets]

http://ww2.wizards.com/Magic/Orb/xq2oa0vfsa.aspx
Search for:
Lotus
Time
Extra
Turn

Just saying.

[georgjorge]

http://ww2.wizards.com/Magic/Orb/xq2oa0vfsa.aspx
Search for:
Lotus
Time
Extra
Turn

Just saying.

WTF Black Lotus and Time Walk reprints ! I'm pre-ordering TEN boxes right now.

[tyleredw]

WTF Black Lotus and Time Walk reprints ! I'm pre-ordering TEN boxes right now.

Orb of Insight "walk" returns 0. So That would be a negative, unless they changed the name.

[DrJones]

Also, Mark Rosewater already said that lotus belongs to "lotus cobra", which will probably be a chaff uncommon meant for limited like "lotus guardian".

[Aggro_zombies]

Does Enchantress like this card?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94975&stc=1&d=1252382561

Luminarch Ascension - :1::w:
Enchantment

At the beginning of each of your opponent's end steps, if you took no damage this turn, you may put a quest counter on ~.

:1::w:: Put a 4/4 Angel token with flying onto the battlefield. Activate this ability only if there are 4 quest counters on ~.


Notice no sacrifice on this one. Seems good, when are you taking damage in Enchantress?
But as always there is Mesa :0
Seems worse in Enchantress than Sigil, but hot damn does that look sexy for Counter-Top as a way to break through ground stalls. Goyf on Goyf action = you take no damage, so you sit on this for a little while and BAM! Suddenly, Angels, thousands of them!

It would almost be good against control, except it happens to have the same CMC as Goyf and Counterbalance, making it a sad panda versus EE. Useless against combo, could be decent against aggro if you can stall them for long enough.

Probably good in the mirror as a sideboard card, although the prevalence of Pridemage might make it worse. Still, probably better than Jitte in a deck with a low creature count.

[Bryant Cook]

Is there any word on that ritual yet?

[Barook]

This set is getting more and more awesome every day!

Edict on a stick (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95021&stc=1&d=1252468961)

Too bad it can't be kicked with Vial. At the very least, an interesting removal choice for black-heavy decks.

[Apex]

Good for standard, gives black a way to off the Stag. Also, very nicely costed, since only monoblack can really take advantage of him (BBB is pretty hard for standard manabase even with fetches).

Though for legacy I think Shriekmaw is still better.

[lordofthepit]

Good for standard, gives black a way to off the Stag. Also, very nicely costed, since only monoblack can really take advantage of him (BBB is pretty hard for standard manabase even with fetches).

Though for legacy I think Shriekmaw is still better.

One thing that you might have overlooked is that this is a Vampire. With the Vampire Lacerator, Bloodghast, Vampire Nighthawk, and now this guy joining Vampire Nocturnus and Child of Night, we might see some Vampire tribal decks in Legacy. No, those decks probably won't be great, but they may be just viable enough to pop up from time to time.

As a tribal, Vampires are definitely weaker than all the others, but with Gatekeeper, it now has some built-in utility that the other tribals had.

[xTrainx]

WTF Black Lotus and Time Walk reprints ! I'm pre-ordering TEN boxes right now.

"extra turn" as one query returns 0 as well...

[Otter]

"extra turn" as one query returns 0 as well...

Any multiple-word query returns zero, the orb won't take anything more than one word.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

"Take" appears once, and I don't know of any other mechanic that uses that word.

[lorddotm]

Is there any word on that ritual yet?

Not quite, I'm keeping my eyes peeled.

[undone]

Side note about Luminuous. Its broken badly in EDH (especialy since you can use it EOT it in a 5 player game) But aside from that the card will probably be junk.

[Arne]

I don't know, When you manage to keep it online, one out of four opponents will probably attack you... otherwise they're all screwed. I think the card's got a bull's eye all over it.

[DrJones]

Turbo fog fans rejoice!! Finally a win-con specifically designed for that deck. Plus it almost comboes with Arboria. :tongue:

[Volrath]

Is there any word on that ritual yet?

I'm afraid we won't get our wish target ritual and we get a scarscale ritual like card instead..

But we can still hope

[Bryant Cook]

I'm afraid we won't get our wish target ritual and we get a scarscale ritual like card instead..

But we can still hope

WTF are you talking about? At least try to make sense.

Did you see the card?

[Fons]

WTF are you talking about? At least try to make sense.

Did you see the card?

That does make sense?

[Volrath]

WTF are you talking about? At least try to make sense.

Did you see the card?

I make more sense than you think, the last ritual card we saw was Scarscale Ritual.

[Elfrago]

This set is getting more and more awesome every day!

Edict on a stick (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95021&stc=1&d=1252468961)

Too bad it can't be kicked with Vial. At the very least, an interesting removal choice for black-heavy decks.


Yup, a great addition to mostly-black suicide decks, while the enchantment spoiled yesterday looks far less abusable, and thus less good, than hoofprint of the stag.

[Barook]

Most likely too expensive for Legacy to see any play, but still an interesting design:

Oracle of Mul Daya :3::g:
Creature - Elf Shaman (R)
You can play one additional land each turn.
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
You can play top card of your library if it is land card.
2/2

[puppektion]

Most likely too expensive for Legacy to see any play, but still an interesting design:

Oracle of Mul Daya :3::g:
Creature - Elf Shaman (R)
You can play one additional land each turn.
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
You can play top card of your library if it is land card.
2/2

Hello, EDH. Maybe I'll pick up Azusa again ;)

[rockout]

I'm not sure if this was already known information but mtgsalvation has all the pictures for the basic lands up. Nothing really jumps out as special.

[Bardo]

I like this one

http://magiclampoon.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/island-4.jpg

Otherwise, none of the others really did it for me, except for one of the swamps.

This one.

http://magiclampoon.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/swamp-3.jpg

Obvious problem: not enough John Avon in the rest of the pile.

Alternately, they should bring back Stephan Martiniere or Richard Wright who did those gorgeous Ravniva basics.

[rockout]

I agree Bardo, Ravnica basics were very nice.

[FoolofaTook]

Most likely too expensive for Legacy to see any play, but still an interesting design:

Oracle of Mul Daya :3::g:
Creature - Elf Shaman (R)
You can play one additional land each turn.
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
You can play top card of your library if it is land card.
2/2

Does the "You can play the top card of your library if it is land card" supercede the rule against playing only 1 land in a turn? If so this might have a home somewhere in a tier 1.5/2 concept. There are a few decks out there that play 25+ lands and would take real advantage of this.

You know, rip off the top card if it's land, do it again if it's a land, etc. Would be a hell of a way to always be drawing business after turn 4 or 5. I guess you could do this even if limited to 2 lands per turn.

[akiratheoni]

There's a new Sphinx that's been spoiled:

Sphinx of Lost Truths :3: :u: :u:
Kicker :1: :u:
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, draw three cards. Then if it wasn't kicked, discard three cards.
3/5

Seems like a good replacement for Cephalid Sage in Ichorid, since its body is bigger (3/5 instead of 2/3).

[hungryLIKEALION]

So, the white trap seems pretty cool.

http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/tcg/products/zendikar/ch8vg5v8ri_EN.jpg

Given how often people attack with a single tarmogoyf in this format, and its ability to dodge counterbalance, I could see this as a possible SB card. Anyone think so?

[Otter]

The only reason I can see to play it over StP/Path is that it's easier to cast under a CB lock. Not entirely useless, but I'm certainly not impressed.

[Skeggi]

Otherwise, none of the others really did it for me, except for one of the swamps.
Excuse me:
http://magiclampoon.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/forest-1.jpg
You just shrug at this?

No, that's gorgeous too. I just don't see myself playing it. - Bardo

[MMogg]

So, the white trap seems pretty cool.

Given how often people attack with a single tarmogoyf in this format, and its ability to dodge counterbalance, I could see this as a possible SB card. Anyone think so?

Like Otter said, there are just too many other way better white spot removal spells in Legacy. I'd even prefer Wing Shards over this. The alternative cost is just far too situational to matter.

Is there something special about "trap" that I'm not aware of that makes these instants different from others? :confused:

[morgan_coke]

Is there something special about "trap" that I'm not aware of that makes these instants different from others? :confused:

You get to yell "It's a TRAP!" in your best Admiral Ackbar voice. Duh. Don't know what more of a special bonus you could ask for.

[coraz86]

Does the "You can play the top card of your library if it is land card" supercede the rule against playing only 1 land in a turn? If so this might have a home somewhere in a tier 1.5/2 concept. There are a few decks out there that play 25+ lands and would take real advantage of this.

You know, rip off the top card if it's land, do it again if it's a land, etc. Would be a hell of a way to always be drawing business after turn 4 or 5. I guess you could do this even if limited to 2 lands per turn.


Oracle of Mul Daya :3::g:
Creature - Elf Shaman (R)
You can play one additional land each turn.
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
You can play top card of your library if it is land card.
2/2

More OT, I really liked this guy at first glance too, but I doubt :3::g: for a 2/2 will cut it in Legacy. I can see aggro Elf decks using it to keep lands out of the way and draw their gas faster, since it fits their tribal theme, and maybe one in RGBSA if they can squeeze it, but I don't know if anyone else will even think about it.

[MMogg]

You get to yell "It's a TRAP!" in your best Admiral Ackbar voice. Duh. Don't know what more of a special bonus you could ask for.

I had to google that. I'm not geeky enough for these boards. :wink:

[godryk]

There's a new Sphinx that's been spoiled:

Sphinx of Lost Truths :3: :u: :u:
Kicker :1: :u:
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, draw three cards. Then if it wasn't kicked, discard three cards.
3/5

Seems like a good replacement for Cephalid Sage in Ichorid, since its body is bigger (3/5 instead of 2/3).

And non-threshold dependant, though I suposse this is almost always irrelevant.

[quicksilver]

Does the "You can play the top card of your library if it is land card" supercede the rule against playing only 1 land in a turn?

No. Playing a land from anywhere still counts as one of your land drops for the turn. Just like how you cannot play infinite land with crucible.

[TorpidNinja]

Excuse me:
http://magiclampoon.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/forest-1.jpg
You just shrug at this?

God, Avon is good with light.

[rufus]

More OT, I really liked this guy at first glance too, but I doubt :3::g: for a 2/2 will cut it in Legacy. I can see aggro Elf decks using it to keep lands out of the way and draw their gas faster, since it fits their tribal theme, and maybe one in RGBSA if they can squeeze it, but I don't know if anyone else will even think about it.

The casting cost is a little ugly and the critter is fragile but the ability is quite strong, which makes me wonder. Perhaps in some kind of Stax deck...



Land Rare
Crypt of Agadeem enters the battlefield tapped.
{T}: Add {B} to your mana pool.
2, {T}: Add {B} to your mana pool for each black creature card in your graveyard.

Looks like it might have potential, but Songs of the Damned seems better and doesn't see any play.

[MMogg]

Looks like it might have potential, but Songs of the Damned seems better and doesn't see any play.

Yeah, comes into play enters the battlefield tapped = major suckage.

http://wizards.com/mtg/images/tcg/products/zendikar/ubtdx0q542_EN.jpg

[Barook]

God, Avon is good with light.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ptLxVCiNJrs/SkPhtRP0yCI/AAAAAAAAAWw/y0JVnoN4mTM/s400/slowpoke.gif

That's his speciality - he makes shit shiny.
I would also love to see some Rob Alexander land art again. His landscapes are beautiful.

On a different note: More and more lands are spoiled, but aside from enemy Fetchlands, why do have all the other lands have to suck so hard? We're going to have at least two, if not three full cycles of CIPT lands - and CIPT sucks, especially if those lands are not fetchable. They do know that CITP sucks on lands, yet they design so many of that jank in a block that is suppossed to revolve around lands. :eyebrow:

[Tacosnape]

On a different note: More and more lands are spoiled, but aside from enemy Fetchlands, why do have all the other lands have to suck so hard? We're going to have at least two, if not three full cycles of CIPT lands - and CIPT sucks, especially if those lands are not fetchable. They do know that CITP sucks on lands, yet they design so many of that jank in a block that is suppossed to revolve around lands. :eyebrow:

We got enemy fetches. I think we're obligated not to bitch for at least another block.

[georgjorge]

Pitfall Trap, and maybe other Traps as well, fit into my Cascade-Living End-deck well (which I think is better than it sounds).

Also, Crypt of Agadeem is something for my cyclers-Living Death-deck.


Notice a pattern here ?

[Nihil Credo]

We got enemy fetches. I think we're obligated not to bitch for at least another block.
Blasphemy! We'll keep bitching no matter what.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

We got enemy fetches. I think we're obligated not to bitch for at least another block.

Really? Have you ever been to the Internet before? As this is clearly your first time, let me welcome you.

[rufus]

Pitfall Trap, and maybe other Traps as well, fit into my Cascade-Living End-deck well (which I think is better than it sounds).

Also, Crypt of Agadeem is something for my cyclers-Living Death-deck.


Archmage Ascension actually looks like it could fit a cycler deck OK since there's a pile of draw abilities for the activation, and then ways to activate the tutor, except, of course that it's still way too slow. Mindbreak Trap is, of course, a superb fit.

[Aggro_zombies]

How's this?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=183439

World Queller
:3::w::w:
Creature - Avatar
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may choose a card type. If you do, each player sacrifices a permanent of that type.
4/4

[morgan_coke]

It's yet another card that makes me wonder why they took crucible of worlds out of standard just in time to print the "land matters" set.

[Antonius]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95140&stc=1&d=1252641776

LOL, anyone else feel like they will, almost always, be able to play this for zero in every legacy game?

[Tilde]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95140&stc=1&d=1252641776

LOL, anyone else feel like they will, almost always, be able to play this for zero in every legacy game?

I'd still feel ripped off.

[georgjorge]

Oh why can't it be target PLAYER, Ichorid would have loved it...

[DrJones]

And casual decks built around Shelldock Isle. :P

[Barook]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95140&stc=1&d=1252641776

LOL, anyone else feel like they will, almost always, be able to play this for zero in every legacy game?
Extirpate just got a got much, much better. Reanimate is another cheap option to steal Goyfs and other stuff. And while talking about Goyf, powering it up early never got easier.

Even if the opponent doesn't use fetchlands, you could still use Path to Exile or maybe even Ghostquarter to let them run into the trap.

While quite crappy by itself (which is bad), but the ways to abuse it are excellent.

Edit: Acceling into Haunting Echoes seems pretty brutal, too.

[undone]

The wording on this makes me a sad panda.

I wish that if an opponent searched his library this turn you could target yourself with it (Ichorid would go nuts!:D) But it seems like its a ligitiment stratigy to mill out an opponent with things like 4 glimps 4 of this you just need one or two other mill cards and your golden as this card ligitmently takes about a 1/4th of the entire deck from turn 1. So with a glimpse or two this card could make mill viable finaly? probably not, we are one or two cards short I think still.

[Barook]

The wording on this makes me a sad panda.

I wish that if an opponent searched his library this turn you could target yourself with it (Ichorid would go nuts!:D) But it seems like its a ligitiment stratigy to mill out an opponent with things like 4 glimps 4 of this you just need one or two other mill cards and your golden as this card ligitmently takes about a 1/4th of the entire deck from turn 1. So with a glimpse or two this card could make mill viable finaly? probably not, we are one or two cards short I think still.
Mill that doesn't kill instantly still sucks because it's worse than burn. I would rather focus on how to exploit the cards in their graveyard.

[quicksilver]

Extirpate just got a got much, much better.

No it did not. If you think spending a card to (maybe) mill them for 13 then (maybe) extirpating them is a good play, well then I certainly hope to play against you in a tournament.

[Barook]

No it did not. If you think spending a card to (maybe) mill them for 13 then (maybe) extirpating them is a good play, well then I certainly hope to play against you in a tournament.
Where did I say it's a good play? Just because it got better, it doesn't mean it's a tournament-viable play.

If anything, the best possibility to use this card would be the combo with Reanimate in a meta with lots of cheap beaters (read: lots of Goyfs) while playing Goyfs on your own.

[quicksilver]

Where did I say it's a good play? Just because it got better, it doesn't mean it's a tournament-viable play.

If anything, the best possibility to use this card would be the combo with Reanimate in a meta with lots of cheap beaters (read: lots of Goyfs) while playing Goyfs on your own.

If anything this actually makes extirpate worse (if that's even possible). I would much rather play a deck that ran extirpate than play a deck that ran extirpate + this trap card. Adding this card to your deck will make your deck worse. But the kind of people that play extirpate would be the kind of people that would play this card (people that have never heard the term card advantage before).

[MattH]

How's this?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=183439

World Queller
:3::w::w:
Creature - Avatar
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may choose a card type. If you do, each player sacrifices a permanent of that type.
4/4

Fuck yes, I love this! A nice top-end card for white Survival builds...can bust up Counterbalance, can take out Planeswalkers, can easily out-creature most decks...If only it was 3GW instead!

[Barook]

New, spoiled card (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95176&stc=1&d=1252679165)

The five-land requirement sucks, but hey, it only costs :g: and keeps growing really fast once the requirement is fulfilled. Maybe playable in some kind of control shell?

[Occam]

Just spoiled on MTGS:

Scute Mob - G
Rare
Creature Insect

At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control 5 or more lands, put 4 +1/+1 counters on Scute Mob.

1/1

Seems to be a great 1-drop that stays relevant in the late game, and is a good late-game draw too. Might be quite useful in a deck abusing KotR or exploration.

[Tilde]

Reminds me a bit of Bloodhall Ooze, which hasn't exactly taken off in Legacy.

[Skeggi]

5 lands... what Aggro deck ever gets there consistantly?

[Philipp2293]

Maybe as a SB option in 43Lands if your opponents side out their creature removal? But this is only a guess as I know next to nothing about that deck :wink:

@Avatar: I really want to squeeze it in my survival build, at least I'm gonna put it in my multiplayer Rec-Sur.

[Manhattan]

Aggro Loams fingers are twitching but this card won't trigger often/early enough plus it runs into Chalice. Arg, this landblock is so frustrating for Aggro Loam. Every card is synergistic with Life from the Loam but none so far are cheap and powerfull enough.

[AngryTroll]

Fuck yes, I love this! A nice top-end card for white Survival builds...can bust up Counterbalance, can take out Planeswalkers, can easily out-creature most decks...If only it was 3GW instead!

...If you name enchantment to take out Counterbalances, you lose your Survival.

It does nail Planeswalkers, which is solid. On the othe hand, you have to wait a full turn to do anything.

[(nameless one)]

Aggro Loams fingers are twitching but this card won't trigger often/early enough plus it runs into Chalice. Arg, this landblock is so frustrating for Aggro Loam. Every card is synergistic with Life from the Loam but none so far are cheap and powerfull enough.

I agree with this guy... and the insect guy isnt for aggro at all...

[HdH_Cthulhu]

...If you name enchantment to take out Counterbalances, you lose your Survival.

It does nail Planeswalkers, which is solid. On the othe hand, you have to wait a full turn to do anything.

Dont know for sure but it could be the nuts in Armageddon Stax. Acts as flexible lock piece and beats for 4.

[Manhattan]

I think the card is quite terrible unless you have some tokens at which point the card is too difficult to set up. Even in Standard I'd rather cast Baneslayer and just bash any foe that doesn't have removal ready. This card is just as susceptible to removal but takes many times longer than the angel if the opponent doesn't have it.
However the Angelquest is still buzzing in my mind. That card is really good. Can't wait to see what games will be broken with that enchantment.

[(nameless one)]

I think the card is quite terrible unless you have some tokens at which point the card is too difficult to set up. Even in Standard I'd rather cast Baneslayer and just bash any foe that doesn't have removal ready. This card is just as susceptible to removal but takes many times longer than the angel if the opponent doesn't have it.
However the Angelquest is still buzzing in my mind. That card is really good. Can't wait to see what games will be broken with that enchantment.

another mono-white control finisher... maybe paired with Solitary Confinement for a couple of turns?

[GGoober]

Instant - Trap Rare 3UU
If an opponent searched his or her library this turn, you may pay 0 rather than pay Archive Trap's mana cost.
Target opponent puts the top thirteen cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard

Tier 2 (at best) Mill might be viable now lol.

[(nameless one)]

Instant - Trap Rare 3UU
If an opponent searched his or her library this turn, you may pay 0 rather than pay Archive Trap's mana cost.
Target opponent puts the top thirteen cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard

Tier 2 (at best) Mill might be viable now lol.

i see that rare as standard good (with fetchlands/PtE running around standard)

but not in legacy

[MattH]

...If you name enchantment to take out Counterbalances, you lose your Survival.

It does nail Planeswalkers, which is solid. On the othe hand, you have to wait a full turn to do anything.

Generally if they have Counterbalance, I don't have Survival. Because of the counterbalance...

Also, even if you do, it's not too hard to have another in hand, or a Witness.

And even *then*, it's still probably worth it in order to be able to resolve Goyfs, STPs, etc.

Still, the double-white is what will probably keep it unused, which is a pity.

[Tacosnape]

Fuck yes, I love this! A nice top-end card for white Survival builds...can bust up Counterbalance, can take out Planeswalkers, can easily out-creature most decks...If only it was 3GW instead!

Don't get overexcited just yet. There's still supposed to be a creature you can sacrifice to kill a Planeswalker. This isn't it.

Also, this guy is terrible.

[morgan_coke]

I dunno, I think the white guy might really be great in stax.

Look, what are the two biggest problems white stax has? draw control (finding the right lock pieces) and killing people.

This guy kills people and the flexible nature of his sacrifice ability means he works as whatever type of stax piece you're looking for at that moment. Seems to address the two biggest weaknesses of the deck and at a price white stax can afford. What's not to like?

[from Cairo]

Yea the Avatar looked more like a Stax card than a Survival card to me, idk it might be ok, the 5cc is maybe a bit too high for it to be playable though.

On the 1cc Insect, the card looks pretty good in a land based control deck. Like if something like Eternal Garden could make a resurgence with the stuff being printed in this land block then I could see the Insect being a cheap easy finisher, it's more conditional (obviously one would be playing it in a deck with Exploration or something) than Tarmogoyf, but it also outclasses him pretty quickly if you're at >5 land.

[georgjorge]

The Avatar basically gives you a more expensive, more powerful but non-rampable Smokestack that dies to removal...maybe some versions want more than four Stacks, but I haven't seen a 5cc-card in that deck for a long time.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

The white Avatar has the least cool art ever.

But I'll probably still add one to Pile.

[Misplayer]

"World Queller" is weak in Stax because if you name 'creature', you'll likely have to sacrifice it. Smokestack is good because it (usually) forces your opponent to sacrifice creatures/lands while you sacrifice redundant lock pieces. When you're forced to both sacrifice the same card type, it's much less advantageous.

[Nihil Credo]

The Avatar basically gives you a more expensive, more powerful but non-rampable Smokestack / The Abyss that dies to removal...

Fixed. It's a borderline card, but versatile enough that I wouldn't be too surprised to see it in Stax sideboards as a sort of 4/4 Swiss Army Knife against all the random stuff that can ruin your main plan, from opposing Elspeths and Crucibles to Gaddock Teeg and Garruk Wildspeaker to Sulfuric Vortex. Oblivion Ring is much more efficient, but it's one-use and (in my experince) bites it too often to the inevitable Naturalize effects, usually at the worst possible moment too.

And heck, I wouldn't even discount seeing the Avatar in action in some new W/x control/midrange shell - the 4/4 body lends itself to ending games quite fast while your opponent is still struggling to get out of the lock.

[Aggro_zombies]

Generally if they have Counterbalance, I don't have Survival. Because of the counterbalance...

Also, even if you do, it's not too hard to have another in hand, or a Witness.

And even *then*, it's still probably worth it in order to be able to resolve Goyfs, STPs, etc.

Still, the double-white is what will probably keep it unused, which is a pity.
You could also just activate Survival in response to find a Witness.

It's not so much the double white that kills it, but the symmetry. If there were a way to make it a bit more one-sided (like Braids with Bitterblossom), it might have seen play in control decks.

[Infinitium]

Seeing as the ability is optional I'd say that broke the symmetry right there. Also insect-guy will definetly see play in UGx TarmoForceBrainstormShackles.dec as it is a credible threat for people to waste removal on early game and quite the undercosted beater midgame and forward (like, outgrowing Tarmogoyf by the time it swings and for half the price undercosted).

[quicksilver]

Scute mob does not seem very good to me. He's too slow, alot of games have already been determined by the time he would be relevant. Also good luck playing him against decks that pack wasteland, but who would run that card right?

[DrJones]

Turbo Natural balance decks, obv.

[rufus]

"World Queller" is weak in Stax because if you name 'creature', you'll likely have to sacrifice it. Smokestack is good because it (usually) forces your opponent to sacrifice creatures/lands while you sacrifice redundant lock pieces. When you're forced to both sacrifice the same card type, it's much less advantageous.

A (potentially) nice thing about the avatar is that you don't have to name anything, so you can use it to get a little extra oomph and then sit on it 'till the opponent makes a play.

[Nihil Credo]

The "may" isn't even necessary - just call Tribal and you won't have to sacrifice anything.

A nice thing is that it annoys Divining Top: you choose the type on resolution, so they have to put it on top on your every upkeep or you're going to eat it. If you have a Chalice@1 in play and some other artifact to sac, you can permanently get rid of the Top too.

Insect guy won't see any play. Vanilla fat that is a 1/1 early on is just worse than a good old fattie with decent abilities.

[Infinitium]

See: Goose (which granted is suffering from diminishing returns). Not being Tarmogoyfs bitch past turn 2 makes it worthy of a second look however, and reaching 5 lands with Top/Storm/Ponder/20-ish isn't out of the question. Lack of Shroud is eh, but people have to save up for Tarmo anyway, and it's more or less immune to Shackles for what it's worth. I wouldn't count it out beforehand.

[quicksilver]

it's more or less immune to Shackles for what it's worth.

You know shackles only checks for the power and toughness when you activate the shackles ability and when it resolves. After that the creature can get as big as it wants and it still stays stolen. Given that Scute Mob needs to stay a 1/1 for a whole turn at the minimum means it still very easy to take with shackles.

[Infinitium]

The more you know..

[georgjorge]

Steppe Lynx W
Creature - Cat

Landfall - Whenever a land enters
the battlefield under your control,
Steppe Lynx gets +2/+2 until end of turn.

0/1



Obviously not something a typical beatdown deck wants to play...but I'm wondering if just maybe there's going to emerge some deck that plays those cheap creatures, like Lynx and Scute Mob, probably also Mongoose, coupled with Life from the Loam to ensure fetchlands every turn (I'm not sure why it wouldn't play 'Vores and Crushers instead if it has the mana supply, but there may be some benefits from 1cc-beaters, such as Ranger of Eos or whatever).

[JeroenC]

Boros with this and the 1/1 first strike for 1R and 12 fetch perhaps? Seems a bit stupidly straightforward and dangerously receptive to Stifle, but it might work. You have the evasion to get them through and on offense they're probably going to outgrow Goyf often. Life from the Loam could be replaced with a number of Crucible to stay in two colors.

Edit: caveat: I did not think this post through, so it might be retarded. In that case, who cares.

[Barook]

The Lynx is also good with Knight of Relinquary. The main problem is that it's a bad top deck unless you build a deck around landfall. And decks like Zoo tend to play not that much land which it wants.

This card, however, has catched my interest:

Vines of Vastwood :g:
Instant
Kicker - :g:
Target creature can't be the target of spells of abilities your opponents control until end of turn. If Vines of Vastwood was kicked, that creature gets +4/+4 until end of turn.

This basically reads:
:g:: Counter target creature removal - which is good in non-blue colors to proctect your Goyfs. The cheap kicker cost for a good pump also makes it very cost-efficient.

[Peter_Rotten]

Hearty Meh. Many (likley most) removal spells are cast EOT. The 4/4 obviously doesn't benefit you there. The spell also sucks against mass removal. Lastly, it's rather mediocre against Sorcery removal.

This spell is cool in only a specific situation: You attack, opponent casts removal spell (which hopefully is not an Edict effect), and then you whup with +4/4 (if your attacker is not chumped). And hopefully you have nothing relevant or better to do with your :g::g: that turn.

[Media314r8]

I think the advantage of Vines of Vastwood is that it serves three roles:

1. Saves your guy from targeted removal
2. Ocassionaly pumps FTW, occasionally pumps to win goyf wars/ rhox war monk team-blcoked by geese. (BLOWOUT!)
3. 'Tests the waters' in games your opponent has no blockers, as if he casts removal in response, you know not to team swing. Very situational, but possibly occasionally relevant. Most applicable if resolving this first main on a big guy will mean winning, and you have a noble hierarch/pridemage to utilize a secondary guy should your big game winner be killed in response. (as they have to) This is useful as if you don't play it first main, you waste your exalted pumps on a sole attacker that would have ate it to removal.

I'm not saying it's worth maindecking, as the GG cost kicked is harsh to say the least, but it does have it's merits that may not be evident at first glance.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

If someone casts that on a creature after I try to snuff it out by paying four life...

I will poop myself.

[DrJones]

Those vines are awesome, because they are an answer against Submerge which is totally unfair, and they are useful by themselves. Also, it can be followed by a berserk later, while most other protection effects in green prevent you from comboing. Totally worth to test it in stompy builds.

I also think that the lynx will probably be really good. I would compare it with Skyshroud Ridgeback, except with a 4/5 body, and it's also in the right color to abuse Flagstones of Trokair.

[tivadar]

I also think that the lynx will probably be really good. I would compare it with Skyshroud Ridgeback, except with a 4/5 body, and it's also in the right color to abuse Flagstones of Trokair.

Yeah I considered flagstones as well. That's 3 lands in a turn (play flagstones, sac 2, search for 2) if you get it off. Still though, if those counters were permanent, it'd be hella better... Could be put in a sligh shell... But white sligh?

[Tacosnape]

Vines are a shit answer to Submerge. And everything, for that matter. What green-packing aggro deck that would ever possibly run this would -ever- want to keep mana open?

[Nihil Credo]

Sylvan Safekeeper beats Vines of Poopywood handily, and it's still unplayable in the maindeck and mediocre as a sideboard option.

[dahcmai]

I like it for one deck only and that's the old fashioned Mono-Green Stompy deck. Unfortunately, that deck sucks ass right now and this would only help it out by a minimum. It is nice to note that casting a Berzerk on a creature and having a Swords targeted at it will be saved by this and help pump the Zerk.

Too bad Chalice pretty much doomed Stompy to the land of decks we don't play anymore.

[Valtrix]

I don't see why people are thinking the lynx is going to be any good at all. As I said in the zoo thread, your lynx is going to be this (With 10 fetch/10 other land land/40 spells):
2/3 a 0/1
1/6 a 2/3
1/6 a 4/5
Average of 1/2
Keep in mind this guy is almost useless on defense, which does matter quite often. Compared to Isamaru, and even Elite Vanguard seem much better. Sure, we could come up with a setup to "abuse" the landfall more, but I simply think that that's too much work for such a small benefit.

[Otter]

Vines would really be at its best in x-land stompy, a deck that's dying for more trollshroud effects, since it tends to get blown out by spot removal on its Berserked guys. Of course it also costs two mana, it's a mess to use in a deck that runs very few land and will need more mana to cast its other pump spells and Berserks. Not that it'd make the deck seriously viable in any case, but I do love playing it at low-key events.

[Philipp2293]

That new 8/8 Trample uncounterable Guy, would he maybe a good target to sink your mana into in a Anger/Rofellos survival build, maybe with that new card that gives shroud as a backup?

[Skeggi]

Terra Stomper is insane. That's no power creep, that's a power boost. Move over, Force of Nature! I think Pandaburst may have a pulse.

[JeroenC]

Because Force of Nature was always such a significant influence on the game. Oh wait, it never was. This is just making a card that might actually see play.

[Elfrago]

I don't see why people are thinking the lynx is going to be any good at all. As I said in the zoo thread, your lynx is going to be this (With 10 fetch/10 other land land/40 spells):
2/3 a 0/1
1/6 a 2/3
1/6 a 4/5
Average of 1/1.733
Keep in mind this guy is almost useless on defense, which does matter quite often. Compared to Isamaru, and even Elite Vanguard seem much better. Sure, we could come up with a setup to "abuse" the landfall more, but I simply think that that's too much work for such a small benefit.

It's a decent guy for White Weenie. Too bad white weenie isn't a decent deck.

BTW the Geopede with the same ability could be nice in Red Death, coupled with 10 fetchlands that also power out Tombstalker.

[eq.firemind]

Steppe Lynx W
Creature - Cat

Landfall - Whenever a land enters
the battlefield under your control,
Steppe Lynx gets +2/+2 until end of turn.

0/1
Hm... Looks like Weathered Wayfarer's pet...

[Skeggi]

Yeah, that sounds good. A white weenie deck that likes to take it slow :tongue:

[Bigface]

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2654/7wm0i1ay4jen.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.com/)

I'd say possible Elves! addition. Thoughts?

[Infinitium]

The way I see it it's just another step on the way to make Arcum Dagsson Stompy viable. One day..

Also this:

Spell Pierce
U
Instant
Counter target noncreature spell unless its controler pays 2.
Common

Journey to Nowhere
1W
Enchantment
When Journey to Nowhere enters the battlefield, exile target creature.
When Journey to Nowhere leaves the battlefield, return the exiled creature to the battlefield under its owner's control.
Common

"Decent" is probably the right way to describe both, but hey, commons.

[Skeggi]

I'd say possible Elves! addition. Thoughts?
I think no. Coat of Arms is better and rarely sees play.

[Atwa]

I think Spell Pierce could see some play. I know when Spell Snare was discarded as being too situational, Spell Pierce could see play in some meta's.

[Nightmare]

Brian David-Marshall and Mike Flores are going nuts over a card we haven't seen yet, calling it "the most broken card in years." Mike says the last time he reacted to a card like this was Mind's Desire.

I'm shitting myself in anticipation!

[Maveric78f]

I don't see why people are thinking the lynx is going to be any good at all. As I said in the zoo thread, your lynx is going to be this (With 10 fetch/10 other land land/40 spells):
2/3 a 0/1
1/6 a 2/3
1/6 a 4/5
Average of 1/1.733
Keep in mind this guy is almost useless on defense, which does matter quite often. Compared to Isamaru, and even Elite Vanguard seem much better. Sure, we could come up with a setup to "abuse" the landfall more, but I simply think that that's too much work for such a small benefit.

There must be something wrong since T-P =/= 1

[DrJones]

I'm shitting myself in anticipation!Last time I saw someone say that, he had to edit his post five years later to avoid looking like a moron to any employeer that might search for his name on the net. :wink:

[Valtrix]

There must be something wrong since T-P =/= 1

Sorry, it's actually an average of 1/2 (Basic math fail is embarrassing), but that really doesn't make the card any better.

[GreenOne]

2/3 a 0/1
1/6 a 2/3
1/6 a 4/5
Average of 1/1.733
These numbers are just bad: you're assuming that that thing comes down when you're in topdeck mode or with no lands in hand.

It won't be playable anyway, but at least don't show wrong math :wink:

[Nightmare]

Last time I saw someone say that, he had to edit his post five years later to avoid looking like a moron to any employeer that might search for his name on the net. :wink:

I've said worse.

[Valtrix]

These numbers are just bad: you're assuming that that thing comes down when you're in topdeck mode or with no lands in hand.

It won't be playable anyway, but at least don't show wrong math :wink:

And I think it was pretty clear that the rough calculations are for topdeck mode, so I don't see an issue. It's not like the P/T ratio is really going to be that much better in the early game if you assume you have consistent land drops anyway. There's not a need to take that extra calculation into account.

[Bryant Cook]

Brian David-Marshall and Mike Flores are going nuts over a card we haven't seen yet, calling it "the most broken card in years." Mike says the last time he reacted to a card like this was Mind's Desire.

I'm shitting myself in anticipation!

Let the combo players do the shitting.

[Skeggi]

This reminds me of the time we were all excited that Nightmare's friend would shit on a table... it never happened :frown:

[Jeff Kruchkow]

This easily looks to be the best set since Ive been playing. The only thing that bothers me is that it looks like 3+ color decks will still be easy with all the new lands in standard.
As far as legacy, we've already got like 7+ playable cards which is more than most sets offer.
Also, if said broken ass card better be something for combo. The rules changing plus hoser cards.... combo deserves some lovin too.

[Maveric78f]

Sorry, it's actually an average of 1/2 (Basic math fail is embarrassing), but that really doesn't make the card any better.

;-)

With your statistics, we realise that the card would have been far better if P/T were exchanged.

Just to say, that magic is not as simple as math. And it's symmetric!

[Fons]

Combo in standard would be nice...

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Also, if said broken ass card better be something for combo. The rules changing plus hoser cards.... combo deserves some lovin too.

Well, combo recently got Ad Nauseam...


Perhaps they're actually referring to... TARMOGOYF!

[tivadar]

I think Spell Pierce could see some play. I know when Spell Snare was discarded as being too situational, Spell Pierce could see play in some meta's.

People like smell snare because it nails goyf and counterbalance. Probably the two most dangerous well played cards out there now. Pierce epically fails on *Tarmogoyf*. To me, it seems *more* situational.

EDIT: I just realized, since 'Goyf explicitly names the valid card types, does this imply that wizards can't make new card types until after they officially print goyf untimeshifted? Or else, wouldn't this create a temporal paradox?

[GreenOne]

Pierce epically fails on counterbalance.I guess is a more epic fail on tarmogoyf, though.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

People like smell snare because it nails goyf and counterbalance. Probably the two most dangerous well played cards out there now. Pierce epically fails on counterbalance. To me, it seems *more* situational.

...Except it can counter counterbalance at will when played early?



EDIT: I just realized, since 'Goyf explicitly names the valid card types, does this imply that wizards can't make new card types until after they officially print goyf untimeshifted? Or else, wouldn't this create a temporal paradox?

Assuming this is a joke...

[tivadar]

...Except it can counter counterbalance at will when played early?



Assuming this is a joke...

Growl, yeah, sorry, I meant goyf, not counterbalance... My bad.

And yes, I think it's safe to say that any time I use the phrase "temporal paradox" in conjunction with magic the gathering, it's probably a joke.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

And yes, I think it's safe to say that any time I use the phrase "temporal paradox" in conjunction with magic the gathering, it's probably a joke.


Just checking:smile:

[conboy31]

Wow, spell pierce is a pretty efficient early counter vs storm decks or other spell based decks. Will have vintage applications too.

U
counter target non-creature spell unless they pay 2

[from Cairo]

Wow, spell pierce is a pretty efficient early counter vs storm decks or other spell based decks. Will have vintage applications too.

U
counter target non-creature spell unless they pay 2

It seems a lot better in Vintage, since the power level / popularity of non-creature spells is so much higher. To be MD'd in Legacy it's competing against Spell Snare and Daze, which I think it falls short of both. SB it's competing against Disrupt and maybe Divert, I'm not sure if the CA the other two offer is beaten by Spell Pierce being less specific on targets.

[Jade]

I get more and more excited about this set. Nice stuff for Legacy, lotsa fun cards for EDH and a flavorful plane. There's still a lot of jank, but I'll just do what everybody else does - ignore it and hype!

The only thing I'm really unhappy about... oh wait... I said I'll ignore it, never mind.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

I get more and more excited about this set. Nice stuff for Legacy, lotsa fun cards for EDH and a flavorful plane. There's still a lot of jank, but I'll just do what everybody else does - ignore it and hype!

The only thing I'm really unhappy about... oh wait... I said I'll ignore it, never mind.
haha

personally, I'm not going out and buying any of this crap-set. I'll just get the few rares i need in trade, and the commons and uncommons will come from drafting.

[Otter]

Lotus Cobra 1G
Landfall -- Add one mana of any color to your manapool.
2/1

Pyromancer Ascension 1R
Whenever you play an instant or sorcery spell, if it has the same name as another instant or sorcery in your graveyard, put a quest counter on ~.
Whenever you play an instant or sorcery spell, if ~ has 2 or more quest counters, copy that spell and you may choose new targets for the copy.

-------

The Snake is clearly pretty nuts with Fetches, you can easily play a five mana spell on turn three. I'm not sure if that's breakable or not here, but it's certainly worth looking at.

Pyromancer's is something I want to play in my casual splice deck, but I'm a bit doubtful of its applications elsewhere. Short of some Intuition/Gifts + Retrace/Flashback package, I don't see how you could get it off quickly enough to matter. Oh well, if it ends up being jank, it's at least cool.

[Heresy]

Dude this snake is insane in the brain. Why did they print that?

[swats0n]

Dude this snake is insane in the brain. Why did they print that?

$

[Jak]

$

Yeah, the only reason Wizards prints good and cool cards is for money. They know we will buy it! They are such manipulative ass holes for printing cards that are awesome. Selfish jerks.

[Otter]

Yeah, the only reason Wizards prints good and cool cards is for money. They know we will buy it! They are such manipulative ass holes for printing cards that are awesome. Selfish jerks.

It's practically a Sakura-Tribe Elder at mythic, something about that smells wrong.

(And before someone takes that comparison too far, they're both 1G accelerators that did/will see a lot of play and everyone will want.)

[conboy31]

I am hugely dissapointed that this is the card they were talking about. A 2-1 body that evades combat that relies on land drops and or fetches? I don't see it played in legacy and probably not vintage unless it goes in a new fastbond/crucible deck like bomberman. I think it can be strong in standard, maybe extended with a wider cardpool. Thats about it. Could be horribly wrong, but I doubt it.

[swats0n]

Yeah, the only reason Wizards prints good and cool cards is for money. They know we will buy it! They are such manipulative ass holes for printing cards that are awesome. Selfish jerks.

i know you're being sarcastic - but that wasn't exactly what i was trying to say.

if you want to break it down, "$" is the reason Wizards prints any magic card ever.

but i say "$" cause this card is awesome, v. playable in many decks (definitely in t2 and 1.x, not sure about 1.5 yet), and combined with all the rampant growth and fetch effects makes some pretty durn good accel. many people will want 4 of it. but it sits at mythic. so it will cost $, and lots of them. that is why they printed it. I know i'm talking in absolutes here, and could end up being very wrong about its playability. But it will definitely help drive sales, at least early on.

at this stage, Wizards will probably sell as much Zendikar as they deem fit to print. this is not a bad thing, as long as they keep making cards that are good for the health of the game! (I can't tell if this one is)

Also I like the red enchantment, it looks like a lot of fun but it's too slow for legacy i think - turn 2 i'd rather be PoP-ing, Shrapnel Blasting...

[morgan_coke]

Remember when we were told we'd never see "Char" type cards - that is, tournament staples - ever printed at Mythic?

Between this and Mindbreak Trap, that's pretty much out the window. (I know everyone is focused on MbT's alternate cost and Storm hosing potential, but it's also vicious against cascade and uncounterable spells, and it's not like good four mana counters are unplayable in Standard)

MTG's an expensive hobby, and I'm not complaining about that, I'm just wondering if we're seeing the end of stuff like Sakura-Tribe Elder getting printed at common.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

I love the art, but is that cobra the card they were gushing over?

There's no question that it's good. The question is whether I want to play it, and if so, where?

[Xero]

I don't think that Cobra will see much play in Legacy. Most deck in Legacy either have a low land count, a small mana-curve, or both. I mean, would you play lots of high c.c. cards because of a puny mana-critter?

If this was the combo-card people were hypothetically (please God) shitting themselves over, I think they ruined their pants for nothing.

[Otter]

Remember when we were told we'd never see "Char" type cards - that is, tournament staples - ever printed at Mythic?

Between this and Mindbreak Trap, that's pretty much out the window. (I know everyone is focused on MbT's alternate cost and Storm hosing potential, but it's also vicious against cascade and uncounterable spells, and it's not like good four mana counters are unplayable in Standard)

Yeah, pretty much. If they're going to start going back on their word, can they at least abolish the reserved list while they're at it? -.-

[morgan_coke]

For everyone in this thread who's confused about Lotus Cobra's role in Legacy, its to let Tempo Thresh and Team America cast Brainstorm or Ponder off of the Wasteland they just used on you.

Cobra makes any fetchland produce three mana the turn it comes into play, or produce one mana on your turn and two on your opponents. Even if you're just using the mana to spin Top and StP a creature, it's still insane tempo/speed boost.

[conboy31]

For everyone in this thread who's confused about Lotus Cobra's role in Legacy, its to let Tempo Thresh and Team America cast Brainstorm or Ponder off of the Wasteland they just used on you.

What 4 cards do you dilute your deck by taking out? Those lists are fairly tight.

[from Cairo]

Snake will be a beast in Standard.

I don't think it will translate well to Legacy though. Legacy decks can't afford to be running Ultimatums and such as w/o the Snake they are dead draws. With the huge amount of removal in the format one can't really design a deck that's based around keeping the Cobra in play to cast a bomb the following turn, and even if they were to build such a deck it seems worse than Storm combo. Most of the decks curve out to max of 5cc spells, most of them bulk at 1-2cc, the Snake just doesn't seem like it accomplishes enough if all you're using him to do is cast an extra 1cc spell, or spin your SDT, from time to time.

[Xero]

For everyone in this thread who's confused about Lotus Cobra's role in Legacy, its to let Tempo Thresh and Team America cast Brainstorm or Ponder off of the Wasteland they just used on you.

Cobra makes any fetchland produce three mana the turn it comes into play, or produce one mana on your turn and two on your opponents. Even if you're just using the mana to spin Top and StP a creature, it's still insane tempo/speed boost.


Eh. The earliest either of those two decks could use Cobra's ability is turn three-and both decks are land-light, so there's a good chance that Cobra would just be a 2/1 for two. I'd rather lay out 'Goyf on turn two than a conditional mana-booster.

[BreathWeapon]

Cobra is kind of fail, it doesn't even replace Hierarch IMO.

[morgan_coke]

Xero -

Ok fine, it's to make Survival go nuts. This thing is a crazy amount of mana fixing AND mana acceleration. Also, it has some nice synergy with Daze type effects. Which thresh decks etc. definitely do run.

Basically, if you untap with this on t3, you get to dump your hand and see if that kind of speed boost is enough to carry you to victory. A lot of the time it will be. Especially if you're playing something like TA or Eva Green where "dumping your hand in one turn" means your opponent has no board/cards in hand.

I honestly don't understand how people can not be amazed by this. IT TURNS YOUR FETCHLANDS INTO BLACK LOTUS' THAT CAN PRODUCE MANA OF MULTIPLE COLORS.

Basically, ask yourself if you would play this card:

Artifact
0
When ~artifact~ enters the battlefield, add one mana of any color to your mana pool and put two counters on it. Remove a counter from ~artifact~ add one mana of any color to your mana pool. When the last counter is removed from ~artifact~ search your library for a basic or dual land and put it into play tapped. ~artifact~ takes up your landdrop the turn it is played.

-------------------

Because with Cobra in play, that's basically what all your fetchlands do.

[Xero]

So, are you holding onto fetch-lands so you can use them with Cobra? With normal lands, I don't really see this being much better than Birds of Paradise.

[conboy31]

Not to be a Deby Downer, but if you have survival online, you can go nuts without that card.

[workingdude]

So, are you holding onto fetch-lands so you can use them with Cobra? With normal lands, I don't really see this being much better than Birds of Paradise.

Swings for 2.

This mainly provides mana-fixing, so your deck should play a good amount of fetches.

[Otter]

That's a pretty horribly flawed comparison to Lotus, there's no way that you can simplify the Snake to the degree that you leave out the fact that it costs 1G and has one toughness. If it turns out to be awesome, it'll die just as much as Bob does (which is a lot, he takes Bolts, Fire//Ice, StP, etc to the face all day long) and it doesn't do anything interesting past the first few turns, while Bob is always awesome. Here's how I'd say it:

1G
At the beginning of one of your mainphases of your turn, you may add two mana of any color to your manapool.
2/1

So it's a personal Magus of the Vinyard for only yourself, it makes better colors, it comes online a turn later, and to simply I left out the issue of not having another land to play. Meh, not thrilling.

[coraz86]

On a different note, I can see Pyromancer's Ascension being solid in Aggro Loam. I don't know if it's a 4-of, but it seems worth a second look. Being able to get six lands back for :1::g: in the mid/late game seems like some good to me.

[Valtrix]

I don't feel like that's really what aggro loam wants though, even more reliance on its LftL? I think it's probably better off just having a threat in that spot.

[Aggro_zombies]

morgan, I don't get you. Are you trying to troll us, or do you honestly believe the retarded shit you vomit all over the boards?

Canadian Threshold will never play this card. It eats your entire second turn to produce a pitiful threat that might allow you to go into topdeck mode in a few turns. Compare this to Dark Confidant, which is also a pitiful threat, but has the advantage of replacing itself and single-handedly winning the game if left unchecked, or at the very least Misdirecting a removal spell away from Tarmogoyf. How does a card that encourages you to overextend without providing any significant upside make any impact in this format at all?

And what happens when, say, your opponent Stifles your fetchland? Lol newb, you played Cobra on turn two instead of Tarmogoyf. Enjoy not swinging for 3+ as a consolation prize.

Survival - at least, the good versions - will never play this card. In green, for two mana and a 2/1 body, Survival can play Rofellos, which will make more mana than this thing ever will, even disregarding Stifle. Sure, Rofellos can't make lots of mana and swing in the same turn, but why you would want to swing with a creature that dies to fucking every other creature in the format is beyond me. It even trades with Mogg War Marshal. That's pretty fucking sad.

In short, when all your cards are way cheaper than they should be, making extra mana is totally irrelevant. Tarmogoyf generates "extra" mana just by virtue of being ridiculously undercosted, and Tarmogoyf can actually win games in a reasonable amount of time.

Although, I will concede that this, Exploration, Life from the Loam, and Azusa, Lost but Seeking may just fuel a lethal Fireball combo deck. Great alternative to Tendrils, really, and probably light years better than Belcher.

[morgan_coke]

This is the last thing I'll say about the Cobra.

Lotus Cobra is to mana as Dark Confidant is to card draw.

[Otter]

I don't feel like that's really what aggro loam wants though, even more reliance on its LftL? I think it's probably better off just having a threat in that spot.

Agreed. If Aggro Loam is safely loaming, they're probably winning anyways with that one Loam. If they don't have time to get set up, this doesn't buy them any like it would to instead drop something like Goyf, Terravore, or CSide Crusher. If Ascension finds a deck, it would have to be a lot more dedicated to the awesome concept than Aggro Loam is. If anything, it's a build-around card, not a build-into card.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

This is the last thing I'll say about the Cobra.

Lotus Cobra is to mana as Dark Confidant is to card draw.

Being a 1C 2/1 with an ability isn't enough to make a card good by default. Elvish Archer is to First Striking as Dark Confidant is to card draw, and Nezumi Graverobber is to robbing graves as Tarmogoyf is to being much much better than a 2/1, but what the fuck does that even mean?

[Arctic_Slicer]

Remember when we were told we'd never see "Char" type cards - that is, tournament staples - ever printed at Mythic?

Between this and Mindbreak Trap, that's pretty much out the window. (I know everyone is focused on MbT's alternate cost and Storm hosing potential, but it's also vicious against cascade and uncounterable spells, and it's not like good four mana counters are unplayable in Standard)

MTG's an expensive hobby, and I'm not complaining about that, I'm just wondering if we're seeing the end of stuff like Sakura-Tribe Elder getting printed at common.

Mark Rosewater said it in his column and if you've read his column long enough you would know that when he says something as fact you know that changes are in the work to not make it so. Before Timespiral block and the weird rarities he actually said that they were comfortable with the 3 rarities that they had but less than a year later we get wacky timeshifted rarities.

Anyway I don't see what the big deal is. The chance of Lotus Cobra appearing in a Zendikar booster is 1/121. The chances of Akroma, Angel of Wrath appearing in a Timespiral booster is 1/121. The chances of Wrath of God appearing in a 10th edition booster are 1/121. The chances of Wooded Foothills appearing in an Onslaught booster is 1/110 the chances of an Arid Mesa appearing in a Zendikar booster is 1/60.5. All of the whining about mythic rares has been blown way out of proportion and it really needs to stop.

What changed was the number of cards being printed in each set. Their market research showed that they were printing too many cards a year so they made the decision to make smaller sets. As a consequence of this rares have become much less rare so to keep the collectible aspect of game alive they started selecting a few rares, called mythics, each set to only appear half as often as the other rares, called rares. All of the cards appear on the same sheet of 121 cards with the 15 mythic cards appearing exactly once and the 53 rare cards appearing exactly twice for a total of 121 cards. This isn't even new to magic as this method of variable sheet rarities used to be pretty common for magic sets all the way through Alliances. Force of Will had a rarity of Uncommon 2 which means it appeared on the Alliances uncommon sheet twice making it 3 times as rare as False Demise, an uncommon 6 that appeared on the Alliances uncommon sheet 6 times.

If you don't like the new rarity distribution of rares/mythics just start calling them Rare 2s and Rare 1s respectively and quit your moaning; it's really getting old and isn't constructive in the least. Thank you.

[GreenOne]

Brian David-Marshall and Mike Flores are going nuts over a card we haven't seen yet, calling it "the most broken card in years." Mike says the last time he reacted to a card like this was Mind's Desire.

I'm shitting myself in anticipation!
Hope this is not Lotus Cobra, cause it seems suckish, and definetly isn't broken.

I mean, they printed Aether Vial, Skullclamp, Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, Ponder. Some of those have become staples in Legacy and Vintage, some of those even got banned from legacy. I don't see this lotus cobra being any good in the eternal formats.

So, I'm still waiting for the brokenness to come.

[Jak]

The card is pretty lame and tame. I mean, you sometimes get two extra mana... what deck needs this and what deck would build around this card?

[GreenOne]

The card is pretty lame and tame. I mean, you sometimes get two extra mana... what deck needs this and what deck would build around this card?
Oh yeh, and it gives you 2 extra mana on the third turn, meaning that you're going to have 5 mana on turn 3, not before, and probably not after, unless you got 2 lands + 2 fetches + this guy (probably meaning you don't have much more in hand to play with these manas). There are not many decks capable of capitalizing 5+ mana on their turn in legacy. The only thing that comes to mind is Survival. But survival is usually playing with mana dudes thus with a bit less lands. This guy is obviously not a tutorable creature (useless to tutor with Survival, cause if you have your engine going, you probably already played your lands in hand), so you have to play it 4x in an already tight deck. I'd better play BoP, Sakura, Hierarc, etc.

[Elfrago]

I agree with you on it's applications in Legacy, but do not dismiss it to easily in standard where 4-5-6 mana spell's are usually played by most decks. This may be the seriusly busted card they where talking about, it's just not for us.

Oh, and BTW I HATE when Mike Flores overrhypes something in his articles. No way this is better than Mongrel or Confidant.

[Nihil Credo]

In Legacy, it might be exploitable but likely not. In Standard, it's going to be the go-to mana accelerator for the next two years for any deck not playing sweepers. To which:

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr334
"We've also decided that there are certain things we specifically do not want to be mythic rares. The largest category is utility cards, what I'll define as cards that fill a universal function. Some examples of this category would be cycles of dual lands and cards like Mutavault (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:autoCardWindow%28%27Mutavault%27%29) or Char."
Unlike many people on Magic forums, I don't tend to throw this sentence out lightly. This time, I do feel that it is appropriate and deserved:


WIZARDS OF THE COAST,
GO FUCK YOURSELVES

[DrJones]

From my perspective, Lotus Cobra will be a powerhouse in limited/standard/block. The impact on legacy and extended is not as clear, but it depends on how powerful the landfall mechanic becomes in a year or two (think of fairies when only lorwyn was spoiled). One thing is sure, Mark Flores really sucks at overhyping (this is a better milikin, lol), but Wizards has always given him playable cards. I would buy four of them asap, if only to sell them at higher price later.

[Arctic_Slicer]

In Legacy, it might be exploitable but likely not. In Standard, it's going to be the go-to mana accelerator for the next two years for any deck not playing sweepers. To which:

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr334
"We've also decided that there are certain things we specifically do not want to be mythic rares. The largest category is utility cards, what I'll define as cards that fill a universal function. Some examples of this category would be cycles of dual lands and cards like Mutavault (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:autoCardWindow%28%27Mutavault%27%29) or Char."
Unlike many people on Magic forums, I don't tend to throw this sentence out lightly. This time, I do feel that it is appropriate and deserved:


WIZARDS OF THE COAST,
GO FUCK YOURSELVES

Again, why all the hate? The cobra thing everyone is complaining about isn't particular good and not really what I would call a "utility" card. He defined "utility" as cards like Mutavault and Char neither of which the cobra has any resemblance to. The definition is vague and the only thing excluded by his examples are manlands and spot removal, respectively. More importantly he didn't promise you anything; all he told you was the policy at the time of it's writing. Right now there is no indication that their policy regarding "mythics" has changed but in a game that just had a massive rules overhaul it wouldn't be too surprising if the policy did change or will in the near future. Really though, why does it matter? Honestly, I'm still far more pissed off about the rules changes than I could ever possibly be about some change in policy regarding rarities.

[Skeggi]

He defined "utility" as cards like Mutavault and Char neither of which the cobra has any resemblance to.
So only Manlands and Burn are considered 'utility'? That's bullshit and you know it. Ofcourse mana acceleration is utility.

The point is, that in this scenario, when Wizard's announced Mythic Rares, they tried to avoid the critics by not making utility cards (like Thoughtseize) Mythic. Now you see they'll tell you anything to just get the flames of their back. They lied to the magic community (their customers, the people who pay them money), it's not strange someone stands up and says they can fuck themselves.

[Humphrey]

http://i32.tinypic.com/34pxilt.jpg

;)

I would say every card that is useful as a 4of should not be mythic

[Nihil Credo]

Again, why all the hate? The cobra thing everyone is complaining about isn't particular good and not really what I would call a "utility" card. He defined "utility" as cards like Mutavault and Char neither of which the cobra has any resemblance to. The definition is vague and the only thing excluded by his examples are manlands and spot removal, respectively.

If cheap mana acceleration isn't utility, I don't know what is. Birds of Paradise is utility; Sakura-Tribe Elder is utility; Noble Hierarch is utility; Mind Stone is utility.

Lotus Cobra isn't a build-around-me card. You just play fetches as you normally would and get a mana curve boost alongside a 2/1 body. The majority of base-green decks for the next two years of Standard will want to play this guy, like the majority of them played with Troll Ascetic and Eternal Witness when they were in the format.

Lotus Cobra is utility. And it's mythic.


More importantly he didn't promise you anything; all he told you was the policy at the time of it's writing.

That policy was what made many people (myself included) not openly call them dicks when Shards was printed. Since they are now changing it, they deserve the insults they avoided last year.

The whole reason that paragraph was even included in the first place was that when the Mythic concept became known, players became (rightfully) concerned that Wizards would put stuff like Thoughtseize and, yes, Char at mythic: cards without which you're cut off from vast parts of the metagame. Thus MaRo went said "no, don't worry, that won't happen".

So far, mythics like planeswalkers, Baneslayer, or Jenara have been powerful and even format-shaping material, but none of them was a mandatory building block for multiple decks. Jace is good card-drawing, but except in dedicated Mill.dec, he can be replaced with a number of options that aren't strictly worse, from Mulldrifter to Esper Charm. Baneslayer may have given birth to a sick U/W deck, but Reveillark had its own strength and it was not clear which deck was the best.

That is not the case for Lotus Cobra. Are you going to play a green deck? Then you're almost certainly going to want Lotus Cobra, just like almost every black deck wants Thoughtseize and almost every red deck wants Char.

The parallel with dual lands is particularly strong: there are uncommon alternative to the rare fetches, but you're not going to win 200-person PTQs with CIPT lands. Likewise, you can play Rampant Growth in your green deck, but you're going to be disadvantaged against the guy with your same 71 cards but who has collected four Mythic cobras, and who is beating for two or chump-blocking for extra life while he pushes his curve one point ahead (not to mention the extra boosts when fetches are involved).

[Nightmare]

You are all seriously the biggest bunch of whiners I've ever seen.

And I've seen some whiners, let me tell you.

Boo Hoo, it's mythic. So fucking what? You play with Force of Will. If this card is a 4-of in every deck (which it won't be) it won't get to be more money than that card. It won't see much play in Legacy. If you want to play Standard, then get them - you already have cards that expensive, so suck it up. If you don't want to play Standard, what the fuck do you care if it's MYTHIC or not?

Edit- Oh, wait. I forgot that this is the forum still saying Tarmogoyf should get banned.

[GreenOne]

It will see zero play in Legacy.
Fixed.

[Humphrey]

I got no problem with prices or mythics, but i dont like it when the gamedesigners stop following their own rules.
What about Warren Instigator, hes a 3 to 4of too and so on..

[Skeggi]

Nightmare, you missed the point completely.

What about Warren Instigator, hes a 3 to 4of too and so on..
Read Nihil's post.

[Arctic_Slicer]

So only Manlands and Burn are considered 'utility'? That's bullshit and you know it. Ofcourse mana acceleration is utility.

The point is, that in this scenario, when Wizard's announced Mythic Rares, they tried to avoid the critics by not making utility cards (like Thoughtseize) Mythic. Now you see they'll tell you anything to just get the flames of their back. They lied to the magic community (their customers, the people who pay them money), it's not strange someone stands up and says they can fuck themselves.

A Utility card is a card that can be used in most decks; mana accelerators are not such cards and therefore do not qualify as utility.

Honestly I put this card closer to One With Nothing than I do with Birds of Paradise and Utopia tree. It's more of a Johnny card than a Spike card and after the hype disappears it wont be worth much. Even in standard I can't think of a deck where I'd rather have the cobra over Birds of Paradise. If I'm playing aggro I don't want a multitude of extra lands to make the guy work and if I'm playing control I don't need the acceleration anyway. This is also why Acceleration can't be considered utility like removal spells are. Removal spells are needed for both aggro and control decks to compete; acceleration is sometimes used in aggro but mostly abused by combo decks. Also mana accelerators are the most commonly banned/restricted card in the history of the game and almost every time it had to do with the card in question being abused by combo decks. The card is only mythic due to the history of mana accelerators, including the games most iconic card from which it was named.

[Nihil Credo]

You are all seriously the biggest bunch of whiners I've ever seen.

And I've seen some whiners, let me tell you.

Boo Hoo, it's mythic. So fucking what? You play with Force of Will. If this card is a 4-of in every deck (which it won't be) it won't get to be more money than that card. It won't see much play in Legacy. If you want to play Standard, then get them - you already have cards that expensive, so suck it up. If you don't want to play Standard, what the fuck do you care if it's MYTHIC or not?

Edit- Oh, wait. I forgot that this is the forum still saying Tarmogoyf should get banned.
The fact that I am overall happy to pay membership fees for Lady Cruelty's Ball-Busting & Ass-Fucking Dungeon certainly won't stop me from being pissed off when she suddenly starts putting Cayenne pepper and glass dust on her dildos; especially if it's on her new super-big dildo which she introduced last year despite the complaining from customers, which back then she quelled by saying "Don't worry, I don't intend to put any Cayenne pepper or glass dust on this one".

[Nightmare]

I didn't miss any point. I understand what you're saying,

I just. don't. care.

Frankly, I'm sick to death of the way this site conducts itself during spoiler season. And since it happens quarterly, I get to feel that way 4 times a year!

Here's this card, that's super broken and exciting, and the best you guys can come up with is "It shouldn't be mythic, because they said staples wouldn't be." Guess what? They lied.

Deal with it, you fucking children.

[Humphrey]

Wonder when they dump the reserve list. Some foil p9 would sell quite well

[Skeggi]

So you just take it when they lie to you? You don't care about that. Good to know. Now everyone can just lie to you, you don't care anyway. It's not important that companies have some integrity.

And about you being sick 4 times a year, I suppose some people would think you'll just have to deal with it, that they don't care...all you're doing now is whine about whine.

[Nihil Credo]

I didn't miss any point. I understand what you're saying,

I just. don't. care.

Frankly, I'm sick to death of the way this site conducts itself during spoiler season. And since it happens quarterly, I get to feel that way 4 times a year!

Here's this card, that's super broken and exciting, and the best you guys can come up with is "It shouldn't be mythic, because they said staples wouldn't be." Guess what? They lied.

Deal with it, you fucking children.

Ah, I'm sorry, I believed you had actual counterpoints to raise, while instead you were just taking some sort of bizarrely-placed pride in parading your jadedness. By all means, find your enjoyment wherever you can.

[Nightmare]

There's a huge difference between parading my jadedness, and simply telling you that - shocker - being reactionary on the internet won't make you get what you want. Especially not after they've already printed the card.

It baffles me that after years and years of the same things happening - Wizards saying one thing and doing another - that you guys are still surprised when it happens. That's my point. At what time do you all understand that you either play the game as they put it in front of you (with some small margin of control over relatively insignificant things), or you don't play.

Whatever. Feel free to tell me all the ways I'm wrong, or insult me, it doesn't change how ashamed I am of this place before every set comes out.

[Nightmare]

Mark Rosewater said it in his column and if you've read his column long enough you would know that when he says something as fact you know that changes are in the work to not make it so. Before Timespiral block and the weird rarities he actually said that they were comfortable with the 3 rarities that they had but less than a year later we get wacky timeshifted rarities.

Anyway I don't see what the big deal is. The chance of Lotus Cobra appearing in a Zendikar booster is 1/121. The chances of Akroma, Angel of Wrath appearing in a Timespiral booster is 1/121. The chances of Wrath of God appearing in a 10th edition booster are 1/121. The chances of Wooded Foothills appearing in an Onslaught booster is 1/110 the chances of an Arid Mesa appearing in a Zendikar booster is 1/60.5. All of the whining about mythic rares has been blown way out of proportion and it really needs to stop.

What changed was the number of cards being printed in each set. Their market research showed that they were printing too many cards a year so they made the decision to make smaller sets. As a consequence of this rares have become much less rare so to keep the collectible aspect of game alive they started selecting a few rares, called mythics, each set to only appear half as often as the other rares, called rares. All of the cards appear on the same sheet of 121 cards with the 15 mythic cards appearing exactly once and the 53 rare cards appearing exactly twice for a total of 121 cards. This isn't even new to magic as this method of variable sheet rarities used to be pretty common for magic sets all the way through Alliances. Force of Will had a rarity of Uncommon 2 which means it appeared on the Alliances uncommon sheet twice making it 3 times as rare as False Demise, an uncommon 6 that appeared on the Alliances uncommon sheet 6 times.

If you don't like the new rarity distribution of rares/mythics just start calling them Rare 2s and Rare 1s respectively and quit your moaning; it's really getting old and isn't constructive in the least. Thank you.

This is the best post in this thread.

[georgjorge]

Pyromancer's Ascension...hmm...the effect is pretty nice and should win you the game beyond your first 2-3 copied spells, it might be worth it to play Intuition and/or Quiet Speculation to get those counters. Some URx control with those might be viable.

[Nightmare]

At least you only need 1 copy of anything for EDH.

Oh, SHIT! Lotus Cobra is fucking NUTS in EDH!

[quicksilver]

Lotus Cobra seems pretty bad in legacy, I'd be surprised if I see anyone play with it.

[Nessaja]

Lotus Cobra isn't a card that fits in any of the current legacy decks I don't think. Not untill the curve can be upped to around 3 instead of around 2 anyway, it'll require an entirely different setup then is used now.

[undone]

Oh, SHIT! Lotus Cobra is fucking NUTS in EDH!

*Facepalm* I didnt even think about that. I just recently got into real EDH with Azami and nath and your right that card is retarted with fetches + Harrow + kodamas reach + the other 5-8 land fetchers in the deck. But than again so is ob nixilis. Meh its edh so at least ob will be cheap, but Lotus cobra is great in extended(it actualy costs 0 to play it btw if your playing the cobra conservativly) because it generates alot of tempo, Its probably not a combo card but when doran goes "Birds go, untap lotus cobra, fetch land Bob/goyf/jitte go" your looking at a VERY fast deck, even in the late game it helps power up some cards, encourages bluffing, and holds a jitte.

[Wargoos]

U know what is the most funny fact about this snake?
If it's really THAT good in T2 it forces all the standart nerds to play fetchlands, which will eventually increase the price for those.

Not that the snake will see any play in legacy, but I start to hate it already.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

U know what is the most funny fact about this snake?
If it's really THAT good in T2 it forces all the standart nerds to play fetchlands, which will eventually increase the price for those.

Are you suggesting they weren't going to play them otherwise? With the whole 'landfall' mechanic?

[Wargoos]

Are you suggesting they weren't going to play them otherwise? With the whole 'landfall' mechanic?

Of course not, but the snake forces them to play minimum two staples of it.

[rufus]

How will Pyromancer Ascension interact with stuff like flashback or retrace?

[TorpidNinja]

IIRC, it's not in the GY when you play the ability; it goes on the stack and then the Ascension ability will trigger if conditions are met. So, assuming you've got 2 Lava Darts in the 'yard, playing one will not create a counter.

[rufus]

IIRC, it's not in the GY when you play the ability; it goes on the stack and then the Ascension ability will trigger if conditions are met. So, assuming you've got 2 Lava Darts in the 'yard, playing one will not create a counter.

I assume you mean that playing the only lava dart in your GY from your GY will not put a counter on pyromancer's ascension. Still looks breakable, but not nearly as neat.

[workingdude]

Ow, my anus. Then, life goes on - evolve or die.

Yes, M:TG continues to be an expensive hobby. Possibly at it's highest point ever. Who knows where it will peak? You have to ask yourself if it's worth continuing and if it is, pay the price. Personally, I have cut back on other formats and am trying to stick to Legacy (collecting staples).

So if WOTC goes back on their word about the reserved lists and mass produces those staples you've been collecting, making their value plummet, you would just shrug it off?

[TorpidNinja]

So if WOTC goes back on their word about the reserved lists and mass produces those staples you've been collecting, making their value plummet, you would just shrug it off?

Yes. In fact, they probably should do this and usher in a new age of Vintage. I know I'd play more.

[FoolofaTook]

The card is pretty lame and tame. I mean, you sometimes get two extra mana... what deck needs this and what deck would build around this card?

The only decks I can think of that would make really good use of the extra mana that Lotus Cobra provides would be Armageddon Stax type decks. Those would benefit from the extra mana beforehand, to cast Armageddon/Smokestack, and afterward to cast the higher curve spells that tend to be in those decks.

If you get into a situation where you're suppressing mana globally, the ability to then get 3 mana off of a fetch becomes very interesting.

All of that said the Armageddon Stax decks are uncompetitive for other reasons than mana availability at this point, so I don't see how adding Lotus Cobra to them is going to revive them.

[DragoFireheart]

All of that said the Armageddon Stax decks are uncompetitive for other reasons than mana availability at this point, so I don't see how adding Lotus Cobra to them is going to revive them.


Stax is uncompetitive only because of the lack of masochist/sadistic players there are.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Oh, and BTW I HATE when Mike Flores overrhypes something in his articles.


Simplified that for you.

Yeah, being a Mythic Rare sucks ass, but the card's not that good. Keep in mind that the actual fetchlands, the ones you really want for Legacy, are something like 20-30% more common in Zendikar than the others were in Onslaught due to the set size and the new rarity system.

[Aggro_zombies]

Stax is uncompetitive only because of the lack of masochist/sadistic players there are.
No, Stax is uncompetitive because it's a shitty deck.

[xXxBretWeedxXx]

Oh, SHIT! Lotus Cobra is fucking NUTS in EDH!


Actually I think this card is much better in multiples. If it's going to see use it's going to be because it triggers 6 mana from a fetchland with 3 on the table.

[MattH]

I'm kind of sad to see Cobra at mythic, but it's not a huge deal. It's definitely the first card that breaks their "no mythic utility" rule, despite the fact that ignorant people have been misunderstanding that rule and bitching about it ever since it was announced. But when you run the math, as Arctic_Slicer did, it's just not that big a deal.

I don't know if anyone here has been tracking standard prices (I draft a lot and like to know what's worth rare-drafting), but the past 2 years have shown a new singles-price paradigm. Previously, from Odyssey through about Future Sight, Standard decks were mainly a pile of valuable rares ($5 and up per card, with lots of $10+ cards). But from Lorwyn forward, the new setup seems to be a handful of super-valuable cards sucking all the monetary air out of the room, lowering the price of every other card.

Look at Alara Reborn, for example: Maelstrom Pulse is the one super-valuable card, and all the rest are greatly depressed - even the stuff that started off high like Lord of Extinction has cratered in value. The same holds for Conflux and (to a lesser extent) Shards (where a huge fraction of the value comes from the mythics, Planeswalkers+Rafiq). This is very awesome for everyone except the hardcore standard player! If you're looking to pick up singles for EDH or complete a set or something, prices have never been lower. (I'm sure the overall global recession has something to do with this, but I'm not sure what.)

Back on track:

If Cobra is going to see any legacy play, my money's on it being used in Aggro-Loam. Now there's a deck that can pretty much always use extra mana, and pretty much always has a fetchland handy. Double bonus points if you build it with Exploration...

[Elfrago]

I got no problem with prices or mythics, but i dont like it when the gamedesigners stop following their own rules.

I stopped believing in what wizards rules when they didn't reprint Duress in 8th edition becouse "ITS TOO BUSTED!! GETTING RID OF YOUR OPPONENT BEST PLAY ON FIRST TURN!!11! OMG!!".
And a few years later Thoughtsize happened.

[Apex]

Exactly, don't take WotC's words so literally, and don't be so butthurt just because they did something they said they weren't going to do.

They could print P9 tomorrow and make them all standard legal for all I care. That just mean I won't be going to any PTQs, and I would probably start selling off whatever cards I own and quit Magic eventually. But complaining about on the internet is the most useless thing, particularly if you are just gonna keep playing the game anyway :rolleyes:

[Zenzei]

Poor Pyromancer Ascension gets no love because everyone is busy raging about the snake and rarities.

I'll give it a try, maybe this could work as a basis for InstantSorcery.dec:

http://i26.tinypic.com/fwrjgn.jpghttp://i25.tinypic.com/w9i686.jpg
Fetch a bunch of lava darts or just additional copies of whatever cheap instant or sorcery spell you have in hand and you have ascended into the ranks of pyromancers in record time.

[Aggro_zombies]

Back on track:

If Cobra is going to see any legacy play, my money's on it being used in Aggro-Loam. Now there's a deck that can pretty much always use extra mana, and pretty much always has a fetchland handy. Double bonus points if you build it with Exploration...
Not really. Having built and played versions of Aggro Loam with Exploration, I can say that Exploration basically does everything the snake does for your mana, but it allows you to double Waste someone too. The two are redundant, but not in ways you care about.

[rufus]

Poor Pyromancer Ascension gets no love because everyone is busy raging about the snake and rarities.

How about:
Pyromancer Ascension
Entomb
Infernal Tutor
...

[Elfrago]

No, Stax is uncompetitive because it's a shitty deck.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ud/135.jpg

:tongue:

[Aggro_zombies]

Oh, wow! A card that miraculously makes your topdecks not suck, your lock pieces immune to counters, your clock actually relevant, and your deck actually useful against opponents who need little to no mana to operate! Counterbalance, move over! Stax is tier zero now!

:tongue:

[Wargoos]

Oh, wow! A card that miraculously makes your topdecks not suck, your lock pieces immune to counters, your clock actually relevant, and your deck actually useful against opponents who need little to no mana to operate! Counterbalance, move over! Stax is tier zero now!

:tongue:

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO MY EYES - IT'S JUST GAPING HOLES NOW