[ZEN] Rumor Mill

[Aggro_zombies]

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO MY EYES - IT'S JUST GAPING HOLES NOW
Welcome to Rainbow Troll.

[Skeggi]

http://www.timelesstrinkets.com/Other/Images/TrollRHTIRHO.jpg
The end is nigh.

[Zenzei]

This was just spoiled in mtgsalvation (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=4344962&postcount=1):

Vampire Hexmage BB (uncommon)
First strike
Sacrifice Vampire hexmage : remove all counters from target permanent
(2/1)

Pretty solid critter I think. Combine with Dark Depths for random wins out of nowhere.

[Aggro_zombies]

This was just spoiled in mtgsalvation (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=4344962&postcount=1):

Vampire Hexmage BB (uncommon)
First strike
Sacrifice Vampire hexmage : remove all counters from target permanent
(2/1)

Pretty solid critter I think. Combine with Dark Depths for random wins out of nowhere.
Weak card, but absolutely hilarious against Chalice of the Void.

I'm more interested in this:

Cobra Trap :4::g::g:
Instant - Yugi
If an opponent countered a non-creature spell this turn, you may pay :g: rather than pay Cobra Trap's mana cost.
Put four 1/1 green Snake creature tokens onto the battlefield.

Lulzy for only costing one green. Deliberately walk into your opponent's Counterbalance and shit up the board with guys! Too bad they're only 1/1s.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Weak card, but absolutely hilarious against Chalice of the Void.

I'm more interested in this:

Cobra Trap :4::g::g:
Instant - Yugi
If an opponent countered a non-creature spell this turn, you may pay :g: rather than pay Cobra Trap's mana cost.
Put four 1/1 green Snake creature tokens onto the battlefield.

Lulzy for only costing one green. Deliberately walk into your opponent's Counterbalance and shit up the board with guys! Too bad they're only 1/1s.

would be so freaking playable if they had deathtouch.

[AngryTroll]

Vampire Hexmage BB (uncommon)
First strike
Sacrifice Vampire hexmage : remove all counters from target permanent
(2/1)

Pretty solid critter I think. Combine with Dark Depths for random wins out of nowhere.

A 2/1 First Strike Vampire for BB is solid, if nothing to write home about in Legacy. The double black hurts, but there are a couple of solid vampires in this set that require a pretty deep commitment to black.

I can't think of many applications for his second ability in Legacy, although he'll be solid in Draft and maybe in Standard, depending on how much play the Quests see.

I really want to build a mono black vampire deck now, with Vampire Lacerator, Child of Night, Bloodghast, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Vampire Nighthawk, Vampire Nocturnous, and maybe a few of the questionable Vampires like Mirri the Cursed and Skeletal Vampire. The tribe needs something pretty potent to make it playable, though, probably; a 3 or 4cc lord effect is severely missing.

[georgjorge]

Hexmage + Dark Depths is a rather nice combo, especially since they can't counter the second part (playing the Dark Depths), though Wasteland is a problem. Yes, Swords will remove the 20/20, but that (okay, and Sower) is the ONLY out they have, and there are enough decks that don't play Swords. Can be compared to Stifle + Nought, in a worse color and less useful on its own, but a lot more resistent to hate.

Other random applications: taking care of Planeswalkers, Ravagers, Chalice and Explosives, setting back Crushers and Vial...

[AngryTroll]

Cobra Trap :4::g::g:
Instant - Yugi
If an opponent countered a non-creature spell this turn, you may pay :g: rather than pay Cobra Trap's mana cost.
Put four 1/1 green Snake creature tokens onto the battlefield.


Where'd this come from? It's not on Salvation.

That's definitely cool, but probably not strong enough to see play. There are about a million better sideboard cards against Counterbalance, and it's not strong enough for mainboards.

That said, I love the design of this card. If it said "If an opponent played a spell on your turn, you may pay :g: rather than pay Cobra Trap's mana cost." and could only be played on your turn somehow, it might be playable, but probably still dead too often.

[Pltnmngl]

I really like the idea of Vampires, but they are feeding it to us a bit too easily. I'm to wait until Worldwake to mess with them...

[Barook]

Vampire Hexmage BB (uncommon)
First strike
Sacrifice Vampire hexmage : remove all counters from target permanent
(2/1)

Pretty solid critter I think. Combine with Dark Depths for random wins out of nowhere.
Holy crap - I didn't think about this one. One card for :b::b: and a land drop aren't that much of an investment for a 20/20, indestructible flyer. Using Ritual or Chrome Mox to play the Vampire on Turn 1, followed by Dark Depths on T2 is a potential T3 kill.

Sure, Dreadnought + Stifle is far more versatile, but Dreadnought also has a much harder time against removal, especially with all those Krosan Grips and Pridemages around.

[Jade]

Wow, this is awesome. You can easily dodge removal, but wastelands could give you a hard time. Let's find a shell for this one.

Stax Shell: nice against swords and counters, but prevents you from playing duress and thoughtseize. Also, getting BB isn't that easy with 12 colorless lands.

B/G Eva Green Shell: Gives you access to Living Wish and Goyfs, while Confidants and the usual discard fill the other slots. Not much to change there, it reminds me of NO Progenitus.

U/B Control: I think this or B/G will make it in the end, blue cantrips are still hot, counters are too. Maybe you could even fit StifleNought into the mix, this would add some wasteland protection and you'd get a crucial amount of beef.

Well see, but it definately looks promising.

[from Cairo]

Yea some combination of Blue, Black, Green seems best. With Blue you get Stifle or Telfari's Response, general countermagic: FOW, Spell Snare, dig: Brainstorm, Ponder. You could run Intuition, which with a green splash would give you access to Loam and Genesis packages to pull up w/e piece you're missing and recur it (IE: Loam, Dark Depths, Wasteland or Genesis, Hexmage, Hexmage). You could run Living Wish with combo piece #4s in the SB, to pull them up if needed. If it's in some sort of Counter-Loam shell you could also run Mox Diamond to speed the deck up a bit. I don't know there's alot of possibilities, but the combo seems pretty solid and since the Token is a 20/20 flying and Indestructible, and you don't have to use the combo in a very aggressive deck, like you can play control for a few turns then just throw a 20/20 on the board and win. Unlike some combos that work better being rushed out, there's no real reason to be pushing this shell to be super fast.

[SilverGreen]

Stax Shell
My eyes!! Oh, my eyes!!

[Bigface]

Not to forget this new Vamp kills Planeswalkers too. Nice drop vs Ultimate Walkers and other decks with a Planeswalker as a finisher. Expecially with AEther Vial and Volrath's Stronghold.

[Nizmox]

Not to forget this new Vamp kills Planeswalkers too. Nice drop vs Ultimate Walkers and other decks with a Planeswalker as a finisher. Expecially with AEther Vial and Volrath's Stronghold.

Wow, very true, something I had not even considered. Could be very handy since I think we'll see more and more walkers over the years as more are released.

[Barook]

Main problem about the combo is that Dark Depths by itself sucks - and you need several copies or ways to get it to make the entire thing half-way consistent.

Maybe a green splash for Crop Rotation and/or Living Wish?

[Apex]

But technically, Dreadnought sucks too by itself, yet it's played just because it combos with Stifle to give you a 12/12 Trampler.

Granted, Stifle is awesome-sauce, while Hexmage is only decent (he kills Chalice for 1 too? Omg!), but Marit Lage is essentially only a land drop, and something that can potentially be at least useful with Urborg, and can be tutored easily with stuff like Crop Rotation, or recurred with Life from the Loam. Plus, both cards can be recurred with Eternal Witness, so that's another synergy plus if we are going the G/B and maybe add a splash of blue route.

I don't know if it's good enough, but you can essentially do something like: Volrath's Stronghold Hexmage back to your library, cast LftL to get back Dark Depth, play Dark Depth, play Hexmage for a 20/20 flier, and you can do it all again if they Sword/Path it :D. All of this can exist in a It's The Fear shell, maybe.

[AngryTroll]

It's probably worth noting that the shell people are describing sounds a lot like the shell for Progenitus.

If you're running Eternal Witness (and can support the :g::g: for witness and the :b::b: for the Vampire), you can support Goyf, Kitchen Finks, and Natural Order. Add some Thoughtseizes, Cabal Therapies, Smothers, and Diabolic Edicts, and you have a pretty solid list (on paper, at least). The Vampire is the weak link in there, but that doesn't seem terrible.

EDIT: Looks like there's a separate thread for him already, whoops.

[Barook]

New card:

Emeria Angel :2::w::w:
Creature - Angel
Flying
Landfall—Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you may put a 1/1 white Bird creature token with flying into the battlefield.
3/3

[Digital Devil]

New card:

Emeria Angel :2::w::w:
Creature - Angel
Flying
Landfall—Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you may put a 1/1 white Bird creature token with flying into the battlefield.
3/3
Makes me say "Stax". Crucible + Horizon Canopy, you get a card and a 1/1 token.

[Bigface]

Figo.

Not that bad, IMHO. I mean, lands = little flying bastards is always nice.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

why are they birds though? why not spirits? what do angels and birds have in common aside from wings?

[Aggro_zombies]

why are they birds though? why not spirits? what do angels and birds have in common aside from wings?
Feathers.

With Loam to guarantee land drops every turn, this thing becomes 100% better than Luminous Angel. I like this.

[Elfrago]

Angel Stompy gets some love =)

[Digital Devil]

Angel Stompy gets some love =)
It competes with both Cataclysm and Elspeth as gamebreakers. I won't play that card. Maybe in a Chalice aggro shell. Elspeth does nearly the same thing, but she is just plain better.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

It competes with both Cataclysm and Elspeth as gamebreakers. I won't play that card. Maybe in a Chalice aggro shell. Elspeth does nearly the same thing, but she is just plain better.

elspeth dies to vampire hexmage :tongue:

[Digital Devil]

elspeth dies to vampire hexmage :tongue:
...that's another reason to play (and to continue doing so) Cataclysm in Angel Stompy XD XD

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Here's a rumor I'm starting: of the ten Merfolks in Zendikar not yet spoiled, at least one of them will be strictly better than Crimson Kobolds... Or is that just asking for too much????

[DownSyndromeKarl]

Here's a rumor I'm starting: of the ten Merfolks in Zendikar not yet spoiled, at least one of them will be strictly better than Crimson Kobolds... Or is that just asking for too much????

I think that Wizards has some idea what creature types matter, look at Goblin Piker and Elite Vanguard. Goblins are better than soldiers when it comes to tribes, so the piker has to cost one more, or just be too good. Having a human soldier on a 2/1 body cost only one mana, isn't crazy-awesome. thats not to say that a 2/1 vanilla goblin for one would be...but i digress... a free 0/1 merfolk(or elf, goblin, probably even soldier) would be totally broken. The only way they'd get away with a free creature would be to make it some obscure tribe, like Kavu or Griffin

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I think that Wizards has some idea what creature types matter, look at Goblin Piker and Elite Vanguard. Goblins are better than soldiers when it comes to tribes, so the piker has to cost one more, or just be too good. Having a human soldier on a 2/1 body cost only one mana, isn't crazy-awesome. thats not to say that a 2/1 vanilla goblin for one would be...but i digress... a free 0/1 merfolk(or elf, goblin, probably even soldier) would be totally broken. The only way they'd get away with a free creature would be to make it some obscure tribe, like Kavu or Griffin

My point was I want Merfolks that don't suck, not that I want "Kobold Merfolk"... I really don't think I would run a 0/1 Merfolk unless it gave me one blue mana when I played it.

[SilverGreen]

Maybe in a Chalice aggro shellIt's obvious that a Stax shell would benefit the most from this card.

[Damnosus]

New card:

Ravenous Trap
2BB
Instant - Trap - uncommon
If an opponent had three or more cards put into his or her graveyard from anywhere this turn, you may pay rather than pay Ravenous Trap's mana cost.
Exile all cards from target player's graveyard.

Any better than crypt or relic when facing off against graveyard based decks?

[PhanTom_lt]

Ravenous Trap
2bb
Instant - Trap - uncommon
If an opponent had three or more cards put into his or her graveyard from anywhere this turn, you may pay 0 rather than pay Ravenous Trap's mana cost.
Exile all cards from target player's graveyard.

Better than Crypt in most decks?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Better than Crypt in a deck playing black, I would think. An infinitely worse topdeck in many decks that can't hardcast it, and it can be played around to some extent, more so than with Crypt.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

My point was I want Merfolks that don't suck, not that I want "Kobold Merfolk"... I really don't think I would run a 0/1 Merfolk unless it gave me one blue mana when I played it.

ah. what about a Merfolk Spirit Guide?

[Guevera59]

If an Ichorid player has to play around a card by only putting 1-2 cards into their GY a turn, then I think it does its job pretty well.I think this card is better than Crypt against Ichorid in that a) Can't be Needled b) is instant speed c) is hard to play around for the reason stated above and that its hard to see it coming and d) it cant be bounced. The biggest problem for an Ichorid player is that now there are three capable GY hate cards in the format. Relic, Crypt and now this. And Leyline too but to a lesser extent.

[GreenOne]

It's quite good against Loam and Ichorid, but it's not great against Goyf and other less grave reliant strategies (Academy Ruins, Crucible, Survival, etc)

With Relic cantripping, I'd prefer it over this card in almost every deck.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

It's much worse against Reanimator and Survival than Crypt. And when I say that Loam and Ichorid can play around it, I mean that they can play a decent game exposing themselves to it for one or two turns, and then stop dredging and make it a dead topdeck (if you don't play black).

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

ah. what about a Merfolk Spirit Guide?

Now we're cooking with gas... Not really sure if Merfolk would actually be the best deck to abuse this since the curve is so low, but I'm definitely sure there are some degenerate things this guy would lead to if he ever was printed. For example, I would think Faerie Stompy would freaking love this guy.

Ideally, what I would like to see is a Merf that costs either one or two mana (only requiring one blue), and provides some good utility type of effect. I really think Merf.dec could use another decent one-drop besides Cursecatcher, although honestly, 'Catcher is pretty amazing already, he'd be hard to beat.

A Merfolk with pro-red and decent stats would be a pretty good start. Or one that had some sort of better bounce effect than Waterfront Bouncer. Or fuck, even a decent Merfolk with deathtouch would be pretty tits right about now.

I'm just hoping to see something better than "Lol-mage Masturbator."

[DownSyndromeKarl]

Or fuck, even a decent Merfolk with deathtouch would be pretty tits right about now.

what about a merfolk with pretty tits? magic is for 13+, i think some bare breasts in a non-sexual sense would do the game some good. it'd certainly distract us from the fact that we're basically playing Yu Gi Oh 2.0 with our trap cards and battlefield

[Otter]

what about a merfolk with pretty tits? magic is for 13+, i think some bare breasts in a non-sexual sense would do the game some good. it'd certainly distract us from the fact that we're basically playing Yu Gi Oh 2.0 with our trap cards and battlefield

I'd be careful about asking for more Merfolk with visible tits. We got them on the Lorwyn Ponder and that card is abominably ugly.

On topic, I'm not a fan of Ravenous Trap. It's not significantly better against Ichorid than Relic/Crypt in any matchup and it's very possible for them to snipe it out of your hand with a Therapy/Unmask/whatever.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Punishing Fire
1R
2 damage to creature or player
If an opponent gains life you can pay R to return it to hand

Maybe decent in burn sb's?

[Nihil Credo]

Cunning Wish may have gotten semi-hosed by M10 rules, but it's looking hotter and hotter now that it can grab Flash Crypt as well. I'm hoping for a Trap Pyroclasm/Sandstorm now.

One could also build a sideboard that looks like this:

2-4 Trapmaker's Snare
1-2 Mindbreak Trap
2-4 Ravenous Trap
1-4 Pitfall Trap

which can save you a lot of room over comparable configurations. The drawback, of course, is that half of your answers for any specific matchup will cost 1U (or 1UW).

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Is anyon else wondering where all the land are in this land set?

[Nihil Credo]

So far we've seen 16 nonbasics, after about half the set has been spoiled, and the two cycles of duals have already been revealed. Shards of Alara had 10 nonbasics in the entire set. I'm not worried.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Is anyon else wondering where all the land are in this land set?

So far we have the enemy fetch cycle, the uncommon CIPT "gain one life" dual cycle, the common CIPT "freebie spell" cycle, and the rare "mono-color" cycle... And there's still about half of the set that's yet to be spoiled.

Isn't twenty non-basic lands already pretty high above the average number for an expansion though?

[georgjorge]

If an Ichorid player has to play around a card by only putting 1-2 cards into their GY a turn, then I think it does its job pretty well.I think this card is better than Crypt against Ichorid in that a) Can't be Needled b) is instant speed c) is hard to play around for the reason stated above and that its hard to see it coming and d) it cant be bounced. The biggest problem for an Ichorid player is that now there are three capable GY hate cards in the format. Relic, Crypt and now this. And Leyline too but to a lesser extent.


Also, in game three the LED versions can try to go off on the first turn on the play and have enough Zombies or Trolls in play that Crypt won't matter anymore...not so with this card.

[Bryant Cook]

157 cards in and no "ritual" yet. If it doesn't happen soon, Imma kick some teeth.

[TheCramp]

157 cards in and no "ritual" yet. If it doesn't happen soon, Imma kick some teeth.

The card you're looking for is called Lotus Cobra, It turns your fetches into dark rituals, but better. It is 1) a creature 2) dependent on a density of lands. Sorry Storm Combo Players Local Union 010, prolly not gonna' be much more (playable) acceleration this set at all, let alone of the noncreature/nonland variety.

[Bryant Cook]

The card you're looking for is called Lotus Cobra, It turns your fetches into dark rituals, but better. It is 1) a creature 2) dependent on a density of lands. Sorry Storm Combo Players Local Union 010, prolly not gonna' be much more (playable) acceleration this set at all, let alone of the noncreature/nonland variety.

Lies. They said there was a card with "ritual" in the title.

[tyleredw]

The card you're looking for is called Lotus Cobra, It turns your fetches into dark rituals, but better. It is 1) a creature 2) dependent on a density of lands. Sorry Storm Combo Players Local Union 010, prolly not gonna' be much more (playable) acceleration this set at all, let alone of the noncreature/nonland variety.

Go on orb of insight and search "Ritual". There is exactly 1 match.

Here's hoping it's that "most broken card in years" they keep talking about.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

There's plenty of cards left...despite the fact the prereleases are in 5 days, only halfish of the cards are spoiled. They really clamped down on the rumors this set.

[Nightmare]

Go on orb of insight and search "Ritual". There is exactly 1 match.

Here's hoping it's that "most broken card in years" they keep talking about.

They've already said that the "broken card" was Lotus Cobra.

[GGoober]

Magosi, the Waterveil

Land Rare
Magosi, the Waterveil enters the battlefield tapped.
{T}: Add {U} to your mana pool.
{U}, {T}: Put an eon counter on Magosi, the Waterveil. Skip your next turn.
{T}, Remove an eon counter from Magosi, the Waterveil and return it to its owners hand: Take an extra turn after this one.

I'm assuming there's no way to abuse this card.

If you can double and add eon counters on it, it might work but seems terribly janky.

What happens if I tapped to play an eon counter, and then untap to take a new turn, which effect applies first? Taking the turn first or skipping the turn?

[DownSyndromeKarl]

What happens if I tapped to play an eon counter, and then untap to take a new turn, which effect applies first? Taking the turn first or skipping the turn?

you take an extra turn, and skip it, so it becomes your opponent's turn and the game continues like nothing happened...but something did happen, you wasted resources on skipping your extra turn

[m03]

If you can double and add eon counters on it, it might work but seems terribly janky.

Returning to your hand is part of the cost to activate, so multiple counters wouldn't matter.

This is like a fixed Time Vault, except this blows even harder than Time Vault did under it's old errata.

[GreenOne]

If I put a counter on it, then I copy it with something like Vesuva, does the copy have a counter too?

[georgjorge]

Wow, a whole flood of cards coming in...finally. Some noteworthy ones...

Bloodchief Ascension B
Enchantment

At the beggining of each players end step,
if an opponent lost 2 or more life this turn,
you may put a quest counter on Bloodchief Ascension.
Whenever a card is put into an opponents graveyard
from anywhere, if Bloodchief Ascension has three
or more ascension counters on it, you may have
that player lose 2 life. If you do, you gain 2 life.


Summoning Trap 4GG
Instant - Trap

If a creature you cast this turn was
countered by a spell or ability an opponent
controlled, you may pay 0 rather then pay
Summoning Trap's casting cost.
Look at the top 7 cards of your library.
You may put a creature card from among
them onto the battlefield. Put the rest on
the bottom of your library in any order.


Conqueror's Pledge 2WWW
Sorcery

Kicker 6
Put six 1/1 white Kor Soldier creature tokens
onto the battlefield. If Conqueror's Pledge
was kicked, put twelve onto the battlefield instead.


The Ascension should be rather easy to trigger in the right deck (burn can give you triggers on both yours and your opponents turns), and then turns into a one-sided Sulfuric Vortex on steroids (fetching ? playing instants or sorceries ? your creature got killed ?) which gives you life.

The trap should be VERY easy to trigger in many decks, and might be worth it just to put a Goyf or Nacatl into play on the first turn after the one you played got countered. But maybe you could also use Brainstorm and put a Enforcer/Sower/etc on the top of your library...? Anyway, seems much better than the other green Trap.

The Pledge will probably never get kicked, but 6 tokens for 5 mana isn't too shabby.


EDIT: Forgot about the Runeflare Trap below. "Damn, I had to break your Standstill...oh wait, take seven" unless of course one of those cards is a counterspell...but that just WON'T HAPPEN

[Tilde]

Runeflare Trap 4rr
Instant - Trap Uncommon
If an opponent drew three or more cards this turn, you may pay {R} rather then pay Runeflare Trap's mana cost.
Runeflare Trap deals damage to target player equal to the number of cards in that players hand.

Looks like burn just got a new best friend, given the prevalence of Brainstorm and Standstill.

[rufus]

Magosi, the Waterveil

Land Rare
Magosi, the Waterveil enters the battlefield tapped.
{T}: Add {U} to your mana pool.
{U}, {T}: Put an eon counter on Magosi, the Waterveil. Skip your next turn.
{T}, Remove an eon counter from Magosi, the Waterveil and return it to its owners hand: Take an extra turn after this one.

I'm assuming there's no way to abuse this card.

Rings of Brightearth, just like Time Vault, but it's probably janky.

[undone]

Dear bloodcheif Ascention, you will be a huge pain in the ass. In this format, it might be mediocer in standard/extended it will probably dominate (OMFG extended shocklands!) the metagame because of shocks in extended and because of bolt/vampire lacerator in standard. I LoLed at summoning trap as its actualy very good in a format where you play enough little dudes, top CB and so on that its actualy playable. In anyevent Im still wanting a playable trap counter spell (we arent going to get one) instead of that mindbreak trash.

[morgan_coke]

Actually, Rings + Magosi equals infinite turns.

Activate the "Skip your turn" ability on your opponents endstep. They go, you don't die. Now, your turn. Activate Magosi and Rings. You are now on the first of three consecutive turns. Replay Magosi. Next turn, activate Magosi, skipping your upcoming turn. Now, untap Magosi and "Ring it" again. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum.

Fun Fact: That combo exists in Standard now.

[quicksilver]

Actually, Rings + Magosi equals infinite turns.

Activate the "Skip your turn" ability on your opponents endstep. They go, you don't die. Now, your turn. Activate Magosi and Rings. You are now on the first of three consecutive turns. Replay Magosi. Next turn, activate Magosi, skipping your upcoming turn. Now, untap Magosi and "Ring it" again. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum.

Fun Fact: That combo exists in Standard now.

I beleive you would need with either two rings or a way to untap a land to go infinite.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

I beleive you would need with either two rings or a way to untap a land to go infinite.

No...I think it'll work the way he posted it.

Also: Rings and this land will not shard a standard.

[quicksilver]

No...I think it'll work the way he posted it.

Also: Rings and this land will not shard a standard.

Well how does he do the "Now, untap Magosi" part?

[tyleredw]

Actually, Rings + Magosi equals infinite turns.

Activate the "Skip your turn" ability on your opponents endstep. They go, you don't die. Now, your turn. Activate Magosi and Rings. You are now on the first of three consecutive turns. Replay Magosi. Next turn, activate Magosi, skipping your upcoming turn. Now, untap Magosi and "Ring it" again. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum.

Fun Fact: That combo exists in Standard now.

That doesn't work.

Their turn: EOT skip your next turn ability.
Their turn 2: Assume you don't lose.

Your turn: Activate Magosi and rings, putting two "take another turn"s on the stack. Replay Magosi tapped.
Your turn 2: Activate Magosi, skipping your next turn.

Your turn 3: Gets skipped because of what you just did on turn 2.

Their turn: Whatever they want.

And it won't be standard legal, because rings rotates out as soon as zendikar rotates in.

[morgan_coke]

Oh right, rings is in L/M/S/E. Whoops. Extended then.

Standard untap a land effects:

Garruk Wildspeaker
Fatestitcher
Pestermite (leaves with Rings).

In Legacy, there's all sorts of tricksy stuff you can do for untapping Magosi and playing multiple lands in a turn. May very well have a place in something like 5c Garden, especially given that the combo is completely graveyard independent and one of its pieces is a land.

Also, Gilder Bairn has some fun interactions with Magosi + Instant speed untappyness.

EDIT: Tylerdw, that's the way it would work if you were only taking ONE extra turn. But you're not, you're taking two.

Their turn: Skip your turn.
Their turn 2: Assume you don't lose.

Your turn: Activate Magosi and rings, get two extra turns. Replay Magosi, untap and activate, skipping your next turn.
Your turn 2: Skip it.
Your turn 3: Activate Magosi and rings, get two extra turns. Replay Magosi, untap and activate, skipping your next turn.
Your turn 4: Skip it.
Your turn 5: Activate Magosi and rings, get two extra turns. Replay Magosi, untap and activate, skipping your next turn.

See how that infinite loop thingy works now?

The Rings combo works because using Magosi + Rings is 2 turns, you then use Magosi to "eat" one of those turns, then use it again on the extra turn you have left over to get another 2.

[quicksilver]

Oh right, rings is in L/M/S/E. Whoops. Extended then.

Standard untap a land effects:

Garruk Wildspeaker
Fatestitcher
Pestermite (leaves with Rings).

In Legacy, there's all sorts of tricksy stuff you can do for untapping Magosi and playing multiple lands in a turn. May very well have a place in something like 5c Garden, especially given that the combo is completely graveyard independent and one of its pieces is a land.

Also, Gilder Bairn has some fun interactions with Magosi + Instant speed untappyness.

The Rings combo works because using Magosi + Rings is 2 turns, you then use Magosi to "eat" one of those turns, then use it again on the extra turn you have left over to get another 2.

It takes 3 turns to get an extra turn from Magosi.

[tyleredw]

Oh right, rings is in L/M/S/E. Whoops. Extended then.

Standard untap a land effects:

Garruk Wildspeaker
Fatestitcher
Pestermite (leaves with Rings).



Sadly, I think at that point, it ceases to be a two card combo, and becomes an even more janky three card combo. Definitely sounds cute though. At least it's more entertaining combos available for casual players.

[Nightmare]

Unless you have a way to untap the land, the Rings combo doesn't work.

It takes a ton of turns to get this thing active.

Turn 1: Play Magosi.
*Opponent's turn*
Turn 2: Untap Magosi (during untap step), Activate (skip next turn).
*Opponent's turn*
Turn 3: Skipped.
*Opponent's turn*
Turn 4: Activate Magosi (return to hand, take another two turns). Replay Magosi.
Turn 5 (xtra1): Untap Magosi (during untap step), Activate (skip next turn).
Turn 6 (xtra2): Skipped.
*Opponent's turn*

Net = 0 turns.

[morgan_coke]

Their turn: Skip your turn.
Their turn 2: Assume you don't lose.

Your turn: Activate Magosi and rings, get two extra turns. Replay Magosi, untap and activate, skipping your next turn.
Your turn 2: Skip it.
Your turn 3: Activate Magosi and rings, get two extra turns. Replay Magosi, untap and activate, skipping your next turn.
Your turn 4: Skip it.
Your turn 5: Activate Magosi and rings, get two extra turns. Replay Magosi, untap and activate, skipping your next turn.

See how that infinite loop thingy works now?

Garruk + Rings + Magosi. It's a three card combo, one of which is a land, and the other two of which are highly useful on their own. I don't think it fits in the "only good in casual" realm of comboes. Might be more of an extended than a legacy thing though.

-----------------------

EDIT: A more elegant way to describe what to do, and one that doesn't require you to ever skip a turn from ReoAyanami in the MTGS spoiler thread:

Step 1: Untap with the Magosi, Garruk, Rings and some lands in play. Don't play a land yet.
Step 2: Tap Magosi to add a counter on it and skip your next turn
Step 3: Untap Magosi using Garruk
Step 4: Tap Magosi to gain an extra turn and double it with Rings
Step 5: Play Magosi from your hand.
Step 6: End your turn and start your extra turn.
Step 7: Repeat from Step 1.

[Nihil Credo]

The best Magosi can be hope for is some Blue Stax presence alongside Smokestack and Tangle Wire, and I won't hold my breath. Although with enough mini-combos that deck might support both Rings of Brighthearth and that colourless land with "1, T: Untap target land".

More interesting stuff:

Living Tsunami in Faerie Stompy? It's strictly better than Waterspout Djinn, and didn't that (or Thought Devourer) almost make the cut?
Trapfinder's Trick is one cool design. Can't wait to get randomly blown out by that (likely) 14th pick.
Bloodchief Ascension loves Grim Lavamancer, and a ton of other stuff a formerly-and-just-maybe-no-longer-crappy B/R/x weenie deck would play.
Guul Draz Specter: This looks like it may be the first non-Hypnotic Specter to see maindeck T2 play in a long while.
Geyser Glider: Skyclaw Thrash was a massively underrated Limited card. Glad to see it's getting revenge.
Punishing Fire: The Imi Statue to Pulse of the Fields's Arcbound Ravager.
Quest for Pure Flame: I know it costs half, but this is just embarrassing compared to Luminarch Ascension, or even Bloodchief.
Ruinous Minotaur: Looking forward to see this guy in a core set. Very sharp design.
Runeflare Trap: Oh boy. Start collecting data, Burn players, 'cause the only question here is how many of those four copies will be maindeck and how many sideboard.
Beastmaster Ascension: Insane reward for an unreasonable payment. I don't expect it to see play until they print something like a Spectral Procession that makes seven 0/1 dorks instead of three birds.
Greenweaver Druid: Not as flashy as Cobra but way more reliable. Quite possibly a sleeper card - Explosive Vegetation defined its Block format.
Summoning Trap: Crap rare, unless Cryptic Command finds a successor in ubiquity (and I hope it doesn't).
Adventuring Gear / Trusty Machete / Blazing Torch: For some reason, artifacts with mundane names give me creepy MMORPG feelings.

[tyleredw]

Their turn: Skip your turn.
Their turn 2: Assume you don't lose.

Your turn: Activate Magosi and rings, get two extra turns. Replay Magosi, untap and activate, skipping your next turn.
Your turn 2: Skip it.
Your turn 3: Activate Magosi and rings, get two extra turns. Replay Magosi, untap and activate, skipping your next turn.
Your turn 4: Skip it.
Your turn 5: Activate Magosi and rings, get two extra turns. Replay Magosi, untap and activate, skipping your next turn.

See how that infinite loop thingy works now?

Garruk + Rings + Magosi. It's a three card combo, one of which is a land, and the other two of which are highly useful on their own. I don't think it fits in the "only good in casual" realm of comboes. Might be more of an extended than a legacy thing though.

-----------------------

EDIT: A more elegant way to describe what to do, and one that doesn't require you to ever skip a turn from ReoAyanami in the MTGS spoiler thread:

Step 1: Untap with the Magosi, Garruk, Rings and some lands in play. Don't play a land yet.
Step 2: Tap Magosi to add a counter on it and skip your next turn
Step 3: Untap Magosi using Garruk
Step 4: Tap Magosi to gain an extra turn and double it with Rings
Step 5: Play Magosi from your hand.
Step 6: End your turn and start your extra turn.
Step 7: Repeat from Step 1.

I think the problem with this combo, is that you have to replay the Magosi every turn, so you don't get added land drops. And if you combo with Garruk like that, you never get to do anything cute with Garruk since you have to use his +1 every turn to keep it up. You also probably won't be able to play anything else on your turns, since you're tapping 4 lands just to pull it off. Add this to the fact that you have to waste turn 3 and 4 to set up the combo means, at best, even if you have infinite turns, you'd only have a one or two drop in play at that point, and without the ability to play a bunch of lands, you'd be able to maybe stop your infinite shenanigans to play a critter, then overrun for like 12 or so and pass turn. This all seems like something you could've done anyway without any infinite shenanigans.

[georgjorge]

Summoning Trap: Crap rare, unless Cryptic Command finds a successor in ubiquity (and I hope it doesn't).How so ? I'm definitely going to test it in Aggro Loam, and could very well imagine it in Zoo and other decks. It's worse than Shusher against Counterbalance, but is a very strong tempo play if they counter your first- or second-turn creature.

Also, someone WILL play it in the Mono-Green-Chalice deck, or in Natural Order Elves (looks decent in both), and hit the singleton Progenitus for zero mana. Good times.


As for the Time Walk land, I wouldn't build around it, but maybe either some Eternal Garden variant can use Rings of Brighthearth anyway (Horizon Canopy, Wasteland, cycling lands), and then throw one of those along with Intuition into the mix for another random win condition.

[Nihil Credo]

How so ? I'm definitely going to test it in Aggro Loam
As an upgrade over what? All of the guys in the deck cost 3 or less, and they're mostly redundant fat. At best it will be a Commune with Nature + Dark Ritual. That's not even close to backbreaking enough for a sideboard card. I'd pack Red Blasts long before this.

[georgjorge]

In exchange for the slot occupied either by Shusher or Choke - sacrifice long-term power for tempo (and for example, I don't sideboard Shusher against Tempo Thresh because I usually don't have extra mana against them, but I would very much side that card). Commune with Nature + Dark Ritual in one card for ZERO mana is very much playable.

[quicksilver]

Their turn: Skip your turn.
Their turn 2: Assume you don't lose.

Your turn: Activate Magosi and rings, get two extra turns. Replay Magosi, untap and activate, skipping your next turn.
Your turn 2: Skip it.
Your turn 3: Activate Magosi and rings, get two extra turns. Replay Magosi, untap and activate, skipping your next turn.
Your turn 4: Skip it.
Your turn 5: Activate Magosi and rings, get two extra turns. Replay Magosi, untap and activate, skipping your next turn.

See how that infinite loop thingy works now?

Garruk + Rings + Magosi. It's a three card combo, one of which is a land, and the other two of which are highly useful on their own. I don't think it fits in the "only good in casual" realm of comboes. Might be more of an extended than a legacy thing though.

-----------------------

EDIT: A more elegant way to describe what to do, and one that doesn't require you to ever skip a turn from ReoAyanami in the MTGS spoiler thread:

Step 1: Untap with the Magosi, Garruk, Rings and some lands in play. Don't play a land yet.
Step 2: Tap Magosi to add a counter on it and skip your next turn
Step 3: Untap Magosi using Garruk
Step 4: Tap Magosi to gain an extra turn and double it with Rings
Step 5: Play Magosi from your hand.
Step 6: End your turn and start your extra turn.
Step 7: Repeat from Step 1.

Right we were just saying that it was a three card combo not a 2 card combo, which makes it much much worse.

[hi-val]

Obsidian Fireheart
1rrr
Creature - Elemental Mythic Rare
1{R}{R}: Put a blaze counter on target land without a blaze counter on it. Lands with blaze counters on them have "At the beginning of your upkeep, this land deals 1 damage to you". (The land continues to burn even after Obsidian Fireheart leaves the battlefield.)
4/4


Pointing this out only because the reminder text is way cool : )

[quicksilver]

Obsidian Fireheart
1rrr
Creature - Elemental Mythic Rare
1{R}{R}: Put a blaze counter on target land without a blaze counter on it. Lands with blaze counters on them have "At the beginning of your upkeep, this land deals 1 damage to you". (The land continues to burn even after Obsidian Fireheart leaves the battlefield.)
4/4


Pointing this out only because the reminder text is way cool : )

Odd because the way the card is worded the damage would stop once this leave play. It would make sense to add that final clause in, however not as reminder text, since it's not just reminding you but instead changing how the card works.

Even so the reminder text doesn't make much sense since "continues to burn" is technically meaningless, we can only infer what they were getting at (that they still do one damage even when the creature is gone), but "continue to burn" could also be interpreted as "the counters stay on" but they don't actually do damage (which would actually make more sense from how the card is worded).

My guess is this is not the actual text on the card, but the actual card will have the same effect, but a cleaned up wording.

[hi-val]

Odd because the way the card is worded the damage would stop once this leave play. It would make sense to add that final clause in, however not as reminder text, since it's not just reminding you but instead changing how the card works.

Even so the reminder text doesn't make much sense since "continues to burn" is technically meaningless, we can only infer what they were getting at (that they still do one damage even when the creature is gone), but "continue to burn" could also be interpreted as "the counters stay on" but they don't actually do damage (which would actually make more sense from how the card is worded).

My guess is this is not the actual text on the card, but the actual card will have the same effect, but a cleaned up wording.

When I think that "this card's reminder text is meaningless since it doesn't follow the pre-set terminology of the rules", I stop and think that the game I am playing involves me pretending to be a mighty wizard that summons fearsome beasts to my aid.

I like the reminder text precisely BECAUSE it's not technical and everyone who reads it will immediately understand what the card will do.

[quicksilver]

When I think that "this card's reminder text is meaningless since it doesn't follow the pre-set terminology of the rules", I stop and think that the game I am playing involves me pretending to be a mighty wizard that summons fearsome beasts to my aid.

I like the reminder text precisely BECAUSE it's not technical and everyone who reads it will immediately understand what the card will do.

I didn't mention weather I liked the wording or not, I just said it was unlikely to be printed that way because it's meaning is ambiguous, which Wizard tries it's hardest not to do.

[TorpidNinja]

Despite that, I'm pretty sure Rosewater made mention of that reminder text specifically in one of his articles - it's guaranteed to be accurate.

[morgan_coke]

My final thoughts on the Magosi/Rings/Deserted Temple combo (thanks for pointing that card out Nihil) are that while it is a three card combo, and it does require six mana counting Magosi and Temple, the fact that two of the pieces are lands and the third is an artifact means that it can go in pretty much any deck, is really hard to counter since you only ever have to resolve one spell, and wins the game when it goes off makes me think it is worth looking at building around, or being added to another deck as an alt.win.

Something like Control Slaver maybe, just running a control shell with a lot of different combo outs. Could also be useful in Landstill variants that have a way to use Rings besides the combo, or a way to tutor for a singleton copy. Definitely worth including in 5c Garden, since a lot of versions of that deck run Rings anyways.

I'm not saying it's "teh brokeness" or anything, but it does seem to have at least as much potential as Painterstone does, in terms of fitting into a very wide variety of decks and basically winning the game when it resolves.

[Nihil Credo]

Odd because the way the card is worded the damage would stop once this leave play. It would make sense to add that final clause in, however not as reminder text, since it's not just reminding you but instead changing how the card works.

What is even odder is that they already printed Sensei Golden Tail (http://magiccards.info/chk/en/44.html), whose wording would have fit Obsidian Fireheart even better and caused zero confusion, i.e.:

Sensei-Style Obsidian Fireheart
1rrr
Creature - Elemental Mythic Rare
1{R}{R}: Put a blaze counter on target land without a blaze counter on it. That land gains "At the beginning of your upkeep, this land deals 1 damage to you".
4/4

Maybe they wanted to let Hexmage act as a firefighter (whereas with this version the counters are just reminders)? That seems a weak reason, but I can't think of any other except that they forgot about the shitty Sensei.


Even so the reminder text doesn't make much sense since "continues to burn" is technically meaningless

Reminder text doesn't need to obey templating rules.

[hi-val]

I didn't mention weather I liked the wording or not, I just said it was unlikely to be printed that way because it's meaning is ambiguous, which Wizard tries it's hardest not to do.

I realized upon rereading that my comment lacked the requisite smileys that would have indicated I wasn't trying to be a dick to you : )

I anticipate someone at a prerelease lighting their lands on fire!

[quicksilver]

I realized upon rereading that my comment lacked the requisite smileys that would have indicated I wasn't trying to be a dick to you : )

I anticipate someone at a prerelease lighting their lands on fire!

Like how I expect someone to punt a card that has kicker?

[Aggro_zombies]

Like how I expect someone to punt a card that has kicker?
I'm doing all of the above, in addition to belting out the obligatory "YOU'VE ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARD!!!!"

The judge at the store I frequent chain smokes like no other, so I'll certainly have access to a lighter.

[hi-val]

Dark Depths are now pretty much impossible to find for a reasonable price online. Cardhaus dicked me over xXxHARDCORExXx on an order so they could presumably relist their cards at 2x the price. I expect many retailers to do this. Please don't shop at Cardhaus.

On a completely different note, this set should be good for players looking to get into Legacy because they can crack a lot of expensive cards and then trade them into Legacy staples. For example, trading two fetches at the prere for blue duals should be a deal you should make all day long.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

So far we've seen 16 nonbasics, after about half the set has been spoiled, and the two cycles of duals have already been revealed. Shards of Alara had 10 nonbasics in the entire set. I'm not worried.

Onslaught had 19, and that didn't have "land" as a theme. We're aware of four cycles of five and have seen no hints of lands outside of those cycles since very early in the spoiler season.

[tyleredw]

Onslaught had 19, and that didn't have "land" as a theme. We're aware of four cycles of five and have seen no hints of lands outside of those cycles since very early in the spoiler season.

Onslaught also had over 100 more cards then Zendikar to begin with. Proportionally, it has a higher percentage of lands than Onslaught did.

Not to mention the fact that the land theme goes beyond just the lands themselves, as seen in landfall cards.

And isn't this entire block supposed to be based around lands to some extent? I'm expecting to see more nonbasics in the rest of the sets in this block. And since Zendikar alone has the same amount of nonbasics as the entire onslaught BLOCK did already...I think we're in good shape so far.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Onslaught was also never considered a goddamn land theme set.

If you make a mechanic part of your theme, you should have a disproportionate representation of that. Ravnica had a shitton of gold cards, Lorwyn had a shitton of gold cards, Mirrodin had a shitton of artifacts.

Zendikar, so far, has a slightly larger sprinkling of lands than normal. Lame.


eta:

So as to preemptively soothe Adam's raging vagina, I think the rest of the set looks awesome. I was just looking forward to the largely untapped area of nonbasic lands that do shit besides fix mana to be explored in more depth.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

Zendikar, so far, has a slightly larger sprinkling of lands than normal.

yes, but it has a "shitton" of land-based cards, like tyler said.

From what i understand, Zendikar and Worldwake are land-themed, but the third set is not. MaRo said its going to have its own theme, as well as be a large set to flex the new ideas.

[Maveric78f]

Sensei-Style Obsidian Fireheart
1rrr
Creature - Elemental Mythic Rare
1{R}{R}: Put a blaze counter on target land without a blaze counter on it. That land gains "At the beginning of your upkeep, this land deals 1 damage to you".
4/4

Worded like this, you could not prevent the land from "burning" by removing/moving the counters.

[Nightmare]

Onslaught was also never considered a goddamn land theme set.

If you make a mechanic part of your theme, you should have a disproportionate representation of that. Ravnica had a shitton of gold cards, Lorwyn had a shitton of gold cards, Mirrodin had a shitton of artifacts.

Zendikar, so far, has a slightly larger sprinkling of lands than normal. Lame.


eta:

So as to preemptively soothe Adam's raging vagina, I think the rest of the set looks awesome. I was just looking forward to the largely untapped area of nonbasic lands that do shit besides fix mana to be explored in more depth.
Don't look at me, duder. I agree.

Also, there's a bunch of tigers on the preview card today. That pretty much seals it for me as best set of Magic ever.

[Nihil Credo]

Worded like this, you could not prevent the land from "burning" by removing/moving the counters.
I acknowledged that this "hoses" Hexmaster. But for every way of removing nonspecific counters from permanents, there are sixteen ways of just bouncing/trading that permanent. Unless there's a whole "blaze counters" sub-mechanic that we weren't told about, it just seems a cleaner solution.

[MattH]

I don't think you need a bunch of new lands. The theme isn't "the land set," it's the "land matters" set. Think of it this way: every time you draw what would otherwise have been a "dead land," that land now does something interesting.

That said, I expect to see more lands of the type IBA is looking for in the rest of the block, and will be similarly disappointed if they're not there.

[hi-val]

I don't think you need a bunch of new lands. The theme isn't "the land set," it's the "land matters" set. Think of it this way: every time you draw what would otherwise have been a "dead land," that land now does something interesting.

That said, I expect to see more lands of the type IBA is looking for in the rest of the block, and will be similarly disappointed if they're not there.

I like the cycle of rare lands, they remind me of the Shizo cycle from COK. I like lands that have basically no downside. I am curious that these rare lands name specific locations, but are not legendary. I thought the Uncle Istvan phenomenon was over...

[DownSyndromeKarl]

I am curious that these rare lands name specific locations, but are not legendary.

The best explanation I can concoct would be that these lands are vast, and need more than one card to represent them. Like Emeria, we see a guy repelling off of some floating cliff-side, and in the background, we see more of these floating crags. That crypt card too, the door looks enormous, so I imagine the crypt itself might rival Khazad Dum. I don't know, that's just how I explain those cards to myself...when I'm alone...and drinking...and yelling at the tv...

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Luminarch Ascension looks somewhat exploitable in a psudo stax shell. White stax has the tools to stall an opponent for four turns, after that the angles can either defend further, feed smokestack, or attack.

[Nidd]

Looks like a real flush of new cards has made it's impact.

And my B/G deck takes shape more and more... hehe.

Any thoughts on Ob Nixilis? I think he could be abusable with Korlash. The whole Landfall-shit could be exploited with Korlash.

[quicksilver]

They couldn't make a set laoded upwith lands unless they jsut made a bunch of manalands, otherwise the set would probably really suck for drafting.

[Fons]

Onslaught was also never considered a goddamn land theme set.

If you make a mechanic part of your theme, you should have a disproportionate representation of that. Ravnica had a shitton of gold cards, Lorwyn had a shitton of gold cards, Mirrodin had a shitton of artifacts.

Zendikar, so far, has a slightly larger sprinkling of lands than normal. Lame.


eta:

So as to preemptively soothe Adam's raging vagina, I think the rest of the set looks awesome. I was just looking forward to the largely untapped area of nonbasic lands that do shit besides fix mana to be explored in more depth.

8

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Hybrid isn't gold?

[Nidd]

They couldn't make a set laoded upwith lands unless they jsut made a bunch of manalands, otherwise the set would probably really suck for drafting.
Meh. Manlands, anyone?

I think a block with only lands could be fun. Every land has a CIP-ability which costs mana and then either does a something (some have flash, so they represent instants) and some become creatures.

[quicksilver]

You know what could have been a cool idea, a land with flash, something like:

Flash Land
Land
Flash
This comes into play tapped.
T:Add 1 to your mana pool.

It would probably need another drawback. But I do like how it can reward you for going second.

[Fons]

You know what could have been a cool idea, a land with flash, something like:

Flash Land
Land
Flash
This comes into play tapped.
T:Add 1 to your mana pool.

It would probably need another drawback. But I do like how it can reward you for going second.

Legendary?

[Aggro_zombies]

Legendary?
They did something like that with Gemstone Caverns or whatever it was in Time Spiral. Granted, that one could potentially tap for colored mana, but...

The set name "Worldwake" and hints by Rosewater in his article on Monday lead me to believe that our manlands will be in the second set. But really, there's only so much they can do to make a manland interesting.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

The set name "Worldwake" and hints by Rosewater in his article on Monday lead me to believe that our manlands will be in the second set. But really, there's only so much they can do to make a manland interesting.

Like:

Supermanland

Tap: Add :1: to your mana pool.

3: Supermanland become a colorless golem creature until end of turn with power and toughness equal to the number of lands you have in play.

[hi-val]

Luminarch Ascension looks somewhat exploitable in a psudo stax shell. White stax has the tools to stall an opponent for four turns, after that the angles can either defend further, feed smokestack, or attack.

It's also worth considering that Time Vault Island lets you do some crazy stuff with Tangle Wire and Smokestack. Slamming a Ghostly Prison and then Vaulting your opponent a turn would put two counters on Luminarch Ascension. Perhaps there could be a UW Stax deck...

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I had that same idea. The combination of the new blue land and that enchant player may allow for a properly equipped deck to function.

EDIT: Shit, I'm interested in Magic again.

[sco0ter]

Probably playable in Merfolk:

[name unknown] U
Creature - Merfolk ?
Whenever an opponent shuffles his or her library, you may put a +1/+1 counter on ~.
1/1

[Humphrey]

Like:

Supermanland

Tap: Add :1: to your mana pool.

3: Supermanland become a colorless golem creature until end of turn with power and toughness equal to the number of lands you have in play.

this needs flying too
http://static3.moviepilot.de/files/images/0078/7344/Superman-Logo_001_mini.jpg

[Nihil Credo]

Probably playable in Merfolk:

[name unknown] U
Creature - Merfolk ?
Whenever an opponent shuffles his or her library, you may put a +1/+1 counter on ~.
1/1
Wow. That's a mono-blue guy with a tribal creature type that will often be on par with Wild Nacatl. Holy wazoo. Pair it up with Path to Exile and it almost becomes reliable. It would also be fun (but it won't happen) if Portent showed up again alongside this fellow. Don't know if there's much else that can be used to pump him - Ghost Quarter?

[Barook]

Combos extremely well with Rootwater Thief. Too bad Rootwater Thief sucks.

Very strong in the early game, less impressing later. But still, a very potent 1-drop.


Don't know if there's much else that can be used to pump him - Ghost Quarter?
The way it's worded, you can use any card that searches their library (e.g. Extirpate) because they are forced to shuffle it afterwards.

[quicksilver]

He is certainly much better than merfolk's current 1 drop.

[Nightmare]

He is certainly much better than merfolk's current 1 drop.

Disagree. The deck is not in need of another situational vanilla beater.

[quicksilver]

Disagree. The deck is not in need of another situational vanilla beater.

Perhaps not, but cursecatcher is just so bad.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Disagree. The deck is not in need of another situational vanilla beater.

Psssst.

You're being trolled.

[einhorn303]

I'd imagine there'll be manlands in Worldwake, since it's called "World" "wake", as in the world waking up. Although it might also be "wake" in the sense of "the disturbance left in the water behind a boat."

[morgan_coke]

New Merfolk

Caller of Gales U
Merfolk
1U, T: creatures you control gain flying until end of turn.
1/1

A new one-drop to go with cursecatcher? Or useless since LoA makes your guys unblockable vs. islands already?

[Aggro_zombies]

New Merfolk

Caller of Gales U
Merfolk
1U, T: creatures you control gain flying until end of turn.
1/1

A new one-drop to go with cursecatcher? Or useless since LoA makes your guys unblockable vs. islands already?
One toughness? Check!

Ability requires it to tap as part of the activation cost? Check!

Doesn't have haste? Check!

Nope, I'm not feelin' it here. Even if you can protect it with counters, the decks where you'd want the non-islandwalk evasion the most are typically packing red.

EDIT: Also kinda worse in many ways that that one Merfolk that taps to make a land into an Island until EOT.

Also, the just-spoiled 4/4 flying, pro-white Vampire is hilarious. Too bad it really wants you to be playing tribal Vamps, otherwise it might have been playable.

[Stall_19]

One toughness? Check!

Ability requires it to tap as part of the activation cost? Check!

Doesn't have haste? Check!

Nope, I'm not feelin' it here. Even if you can protect it with counters, the decks where you'd want the non-islandwalk evasion the most are typically packing red.

EDIT: Also kinda worse in many ways that that one Merfolk that taps to make a land into an Island until EOT.

Also, the just-spoiled 4/4 flying, pro-white Vampire is hilarious. Too bad it really wants you to be playing tribal Vamps, otherwise it might have been playable.

I don't know what you expect from a 1 drop but he's actually pretty good, even game breaking in the right situations.

[Clark Kant]

I'm most excited about...

Disfigure B
Instant
Target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn.

and

Spell Pierce U
Instant
Counter target noncreature spell unless its controller pays 2.

Disfigure in particular (It's a 1cc Instant removal against Goblins, Merfok, Elves that's also really good in the mid/late game for black aggro decks as a combat trick, they block your attacker with a slightly bigger creature, you respond by shrinking their blocker. Innocent Blood was only playable as an answer to turn one Lackey if your deck didn't run creatures, and even then it wasn't instant speed.)

[morgan_coke]

The new vamp reminds me a lot of Ihsan's Shade. Almost fucking impossible to kill because it's black, has high toughness, and pro white.

[Aggro_zombies]

I don't know what you expect from a 1 drop but he's actually pretty good, even game breaking in the right situations.
So is Tidal Warrior, but that has the advantage of not costing mana to use. In a deck that wants to send its Mutavaults along with the team and still keep mana up for counters, this can actually be important.

EDIT: Sovereign tapping to make Thrasher unblockable also forces through a fuckton of damage. I don't think Merfolk's problem is evasion so much as it is dealing with red.

[morgan_coke]

If red's the issue, then fetchlands + single Tundra + absolute law seems pretty solid as a solution. either that or Chill. Or blue blast.

I'm not familiar with merfolk, but how does it have a problem with Red with the options it has to deal with red decks?

[AngryTroll]

Yup, Verdant Catacombs has some hot art. Not as hot as Scalding Tarn (can we just agree that this is the best looking Legacy Land? I mean, it looks better than the rest of the fetches and the rest of the duals), but still pretty awesome.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/zendikar/spoiler

[DownSyndromeKarl]

that scalding tarn is gonna look awesome as a foil

[quicksilver]

I don't know what you expect from a 1 drop but he's actually pretty good, even game breaking in the right situations.

Every card should be gamebreaking, otherwise why are you playing it. I think you want to play cards that are gamebreaking in the most situations. This guy might be ok, idk.

[Alfred]

Rings of Brighthearth/Deserted Temple/Magosi, The Waterveil

is a 3 card "3+6" mana combo. 3 mana for the rings, and 6 mana in that it costs 3U, plus 2 land taps in order to go infinite. The upside is that 2 of the combo peices are lands, meaning that the deck does not need to be designed around this combo.

So you need to find a deck that doesn't mind adding 4 CITPT U producing lands, 4 colorless lands (that don't do much else otherwise), and however many Rings of Brighthearth you want to run (probably only a couple, and a sufficient amount of search).

I mean, you can probably run this in some sort of blue control deck, though you won't be able to run B2B, and your Vedalken Shackles is going to look a lot less effective.

I'm sure that somewhere, some time, some deck is going to want something like this, but I can't think of it right now.

[Philipp2293]

If 2 of the combo pieces are land, how about Intuition + Lftl?

[Barook]

Also, the just-spoiled 4/4 flying, pro-white Vampire is hilarious. Too bad it really wants you to be playing tribal Vamps, otherwise it might have been playable.
There are still 2 sets that could add enough Vampires to make Vampire tribal viable, though. It's not like they don't know how to print good, cheap creatures.

[Nidd]

I don't know. Lacerator, Bloodghast and the Pro-W Vampire all look playable. I'm sceptic about Vampire Nighthawk - he looks interesting. Evasive, Lifelink, Deathtouch. IMO he asks for some equipment.

[Fons]

I don't know. Lacerator, Bloodghast and the Pro-W Vampire all look playable. I'm sceptic about Vampire Nighthawk - he looks interesting. Evasive, Lifelink, Deathtouch. IMO he asks for some equipment.

Jitte? the nighthawk can trade with Goyf and fly over him it seems pretty strong to me. If it costed 2B instead it would have been much better.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

I think Vampires are trying to take Zombie's spot in the tribal multiplayer game. Not that many people play it, but it can be fun.

I also think that if Worldwake brings more cheap vamps, then I'd play Vamp Tribal in t2, just for fun.

[Nidd]

Jitte? the nighthawk can trade with Goyf and fly over him it seems pretty strong to me. If it costed 2B instead it would have been much better.
I would not only consider Jitte. SoFaI and SoLaS both look very hot to me. I mean, what in the format is able to block him when equipped with 1 of these 2 swords?

[Barook]

Explorer's Scope :1:
Artifact - Equipment
When equipped creature attacks, you may look at the top card of your library. If it is a land card, you may put it onto the battlefield tapped.
Equip :1:

Kinda interesting with Top or other library manipulation. Not really strong, but interesting.

[GreenOne]

215/249 spoiled cards and still no "Ritual". Meh.

[Bryant Cook]

215/249 spoiled cards and still no "Ritual". Meh.

I've noticed.

[Wargoos]

It#s gonna be something like:

Seven Rituals Trap
:1: :b:

Sorcery

When an opponent counter's a spell you control this turn you may pay :0: instead of paying Seven Rituals Trap's mana cost.

Add :b: :b: :b: to your mana pool.

Fell for it!

[Stall_19]

It#s gonna be something like:

Seven Rituals Trap
:1: :b:

Sorcery

When an opponent counter's a spell you control this turn you may pay :0: instead of paying Seven Rituals Trap's mana cost.

Add :b: :b: :b: to your mana pool.

Fell for it!

I don't know what you are expecting but with wizards already releasing all the card names the only ritual in the set is white. Its called Landbind Ritual. So unless white gets excel which is unlikely its not what you expect.

[Bryant Cook]

Its a white card? with land in the title? Whatawaste.

[Barook]

They definitely try to push Vampire aggro:

Guul Draz Vampire :b:
Creature - Vampire Rouge
As long as an opponent has 10 or less life, Gull Draz Vampire gets +2/+1 and has intimidate. (It can't be blocked except by artifact creatures and/or creatures that share a color with it.)
1/1

And:
Blood Seeker :1::b:
Creature - Vampire Shaman
Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under an opponent's control, you may have that player lose 1 life.
1/1

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Vampire's Bite B
Target creature gets +3/0 until EOT
if it is a vampire it gains lifelink.

I feel like ive seen this card before.....seemed a bit more red last time tho....

EDIT: Also, the flavor text on grappling hook on MTGSal is "Get over here". If they actually printed it with that, I would play it in every deck I ever use.

[TheCramp]

Oran-Rief, the Vastwood is pretty busted with Kitchen Finks. And may crop up in extended.

[Artowis]

Its a white card? with land in the title? Whatawaste.

DINGDINGDING, we have a winner.

Landbind Ritual 3WW
Sorcery (U)
You gain 2 Life for each Plains you control.
"Honor this place, for our children's children will stand here and speak these same words again"
-Ayli, Kamsa cleric

[Jak]

DINGDINGDING, we have a winner.

Landbind Ritual 3WW
Sorcery (U)
You gain 2 Life for each Plains you control.
"Honor this place, for our children's children will stand here and speak these same words again"
-Ayli, Kamsa cleric

Burning Wish target?

[Nidd]

You aren't serious about this, are you? God. Awful card.

[Aggro_zombies]

DINGDINGDING, we have a winner.

Landbind Ritual 3WW
Sorcery (U)
You gain 2 Life for each Plains you control.
"Honor this place, for our children's children will stand here and speak these same words again"
-Ayli, Kamsa cleric
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, OH WOW

How incredibly awful, even in Limited.

Speaking of which, are there enough playable allies to make it a worthwhile draft strategy? They seem decent, but the density in each color seems a bit low.

[Otter]

Check this out -


Shieldmate's Blessing W
Instant (C)
Prevent the next 3 damage that would be dealt to target creature or player this turn.

Better start thanking your lucky stars that the Legacy card pool still grants us access to Healing Salve. Apparently it's too good to print these days.

[Nidd]

In SoK there even was Mending Hands, which was just plain better than this shit.

But well, the Block looks very good for Limited play.

I can't say, whether Allys will be a good strategy, though. I guess pretty much everything with Landfall is good. As long as your deck is aggressive, of course.

[Elfrago]

Just skimmed through Flores today's article.

Hilarious, simply hilarious.

[Maveric78f]

Kor Duelist W

Creature - Kor Soldier
As long as Kor Duelist is equipped, it has double strike.
1/1
It seems incredibly good. I mean, what is double strike useful for? Just for abusing equipments. This duelist looks very solid IMHO.

[Barook]

Better start thanking your lucky stars that the Legacy card pool still grants us access to Healing Salve. Apparently it's too good to print these days.
A functional reprint would have been far too strong. They knew that Nourishing Lich would have destroyed the format with 8 Healing Salve.

Damn you, Cavius!

[Digital Devil]

A functional reprint would have been far too strong. They knew that Nourishing Lich would have destroyed the format with 8 Healing Salve.

Damn you, Cavius!
There's still Healing Leaves. Also, that deck is so potent it doesn't even need Salve 5-8. The reason it's not in the DTB section is just to make sure people can't have access to its dangerous secrets. Nourishing Lich is already warping the meta. You should know that. You're german.

P.S. Where are the "efficient" (now they're not that efficient) beaters white used to have? No longer 2/2 with two abilities for :w::w:?

[MMogg]

P.S. Where are the "efficient" (now they're not that efficient) beaters white used to have? No longer 2/2 with two abilities for :w::w:?

Didn't you get the memo? White weenie sucks. :tongue:

[Digital Devil]

Didn't you get the memo? White weenie sucks. :tongue:
...that's why I play Dragon Stompy, but I wish my Angel Stompy deck could pack more cards with the new frame.

[Wargoos]

Its a white card? with land in the title? Whatawaste.

This.

[Barook]

...that's why I play Dragon Stompy, but I wish my Angel Stompy deck could pack more cards with the new frame.
Turn 1: 2-Mana land, Mox, Duelist, Jitte
Turn 2: Equip, swing

Looks sexy, but it wouldn't happen very often.

[GreenOne]

P.S. Where are the "efficient" (now they're not that efficient) beaters white used to have? No longer 2/2 with two abilities for :w::w:?
Hey, you got 2/2 for :w::w: with THREE abilities.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95181&stc=1&d=1252680998

It's not a bad card, especially in multiples.

[Piceli89]

So, where's the "most broken card in years" whcih was rumored to have made Flores jizz in his pants ? I hope it's not Lotus Cobra.
Seriously.
Fuck the Standard-centric way to look at cards. I can already imagine Pro-Tour videos on Youtube with him commenting the games and coming out with:

"OOOOOMG IT'S A TURN 2 LOTUS COBRA from Gabriel Nassif/Patrick Chapin/Johnny,ComboPlayer!!
Da MYTHIC BUSTEDNESS!!"

[Nidd]

It was the Cobra.
Hissssssssss.

[Humphrey]

It was River Boa

[Nidd]

It was River Boa
Okay, let's be serious here. It is the card that is still missing.

I mean, it must be blue. And we all know Blue is broken, because Blue decks all run Islands.

[undone]

They just spoiled the last card its too bad its an ally

[Eatatjoes]

What about this card...

(B) Bloodchief Ascension
Enchanment
At the beggining of each players end step, if an opponent lost 2 or more life this turn, you may put a quest counter on Bloodchief Ascension.
Whenever a card is put into an opponents graveyard from anywhere, if Bloodchief Ascension has three or more ascension counters on it, you may have that player lose 2 life. If you do, you gain 2 life.

Maybe in some type of pox build, with bloodghast? Also, if you smallpoxed, and they discarded, sac'd a land, and sac'd a creature, would they lose 6 life and you gain 6 life?

[quicksilver]

What about this card...

(B) Bloodchief Ascension
Enchanment
At the beggining of each players end step, if an opponent lost 2 or more life this turn, you may put a quest counter on Bloodchief Ascension.
Whenever a card is put into an opponents graveyard from anywhere, if Bloodchief Ascension has three or more ascension counters on it, you may have that player lose 2 life. If you do, you gain 2 life.

Maybe in some type of pox build, with bloodghast? Also, if you smallpoxed, and they discarded, sac'd a land, and sac'd a creature, would they lose 6 life and you gain 6 life?

I think the card may actually have potential.

[Nidd]

Imagine playing Glimpse the Unthinkable with 3 counters on Bloodchief Ascension. Hilarious!

[rufus]

The problem is that bloodchief ascension is a pretty lousy topdeck in most situations, but it looks like it's beastly if it comes on-line since it can do bad things to fetches, cantrips, and dredge.

[TorpidNinja]

The problem is that bloodchief ascension is a pretty lousy topdeck in most situations, but it looks like it's beastly if it comes on-line since it can do bad things to fetches, cantrips, and dredge.

Alternatively, if you get one active early enough top decking subsequent Ascensions would be great because they trigger counters on their own at that point. There's really no reason why a black deck wouldn't be able to trigger an active Ascension each turn between discard, creature kill and the opponent playing spells of their own volition.

[Nightmare]

The problem is that bloodchief ascension is a pretty lousy topdeck in most situations

Tired of this argument against cards.

Counterbalance is a lousy topdeck in most situations.
Standstill is a lousy topdeck in most situations.
Force of Will is a lousy topdeck in most situations.
Krosan Grip is a lousy topdeck in most situations.
A land is a lousy topdeck in most situations.

In fact, aside from threats, removal and draw spells, EVERYTHING is a lousy topdeck in most situations.

[georgjorge]

I'm pretty satisfied with the set, a good number of cards that will see play in Legacy somewhere. However, as an Aggro Loam player, I'm very disappointed that even though I play a deck with 26 lands and Loam, still none of the many "landfall" cards are good enough to play. I guess that's in part because they are printing fetchlands, which means that cheap and good landfall cards could have been broken in Standard rather fast. Excited about Summoner's Trap though...

[eq.firemind]

(B) Bloodchief Ascension
Enchanment
At the beggining of each players end step, if an opponent lost 2 or more life this turn, you may put a quest counter on Bloodchief Ascension.
Whenever a card is put into an opponents graveyard from anywhere, if Bloodchief Ascension has three or more ascension counters on it, you may have that player lose 2 life. If you do, you gain 2 life.
Wow, it charges at "each player's end step"!
This card goes into my casual Rogue Ankh deck (acceleration+Bitterblossom+Ankh of Mishra+Rogues :smile:) and looks like some kind some kind of Red Death can use it by speedcharging it with Bolts/Lavamancers.
Also, Sygg, River Cutthroat has very similar requirements, so maybe they can fit into one deck...

[rufus]

Tired of this argument against cards.
...
In fact, aside from threats, removal and draw spells, EVERYTHING is a lousy topdeck in most situations.

Your point is well taken. Let me be more specific - to make bloodchief ascension viable you've basically got to be stabilized at dealing 2 damage per turn. Odds are that it's going to be a win more card most of the time it comes on-line, and not such a great card when it doesn't.

That said, it seems like all the top decks are basically land/mana + threats, counter/removal, and draw/tutor spells. Combo cards like the ascension are really only popular when they can win on the same turn, or are good on their own.

[hi-val]

Your point is well taken. Let me be more specific - to make bloodchief ascension viable you've basically got to be stabilized at dealing 2 damage per turn. Odds are that it's going to be a win more card most of the time it comes on-line, and not such a great card when it doesn't.

That said, it seems like all the top decks are basically land/mana + threats, counter/removal, and draw/tutor spells. Combo cards like the ascension are really only popular when they can win on the same turn, or are good on their own.

I'm thinking it'd be a pretty solid card in Burn for long-term damage. Consider that if you can land it within the first three turns, each spell you sling at them will charge it. Past that, you probably don't have to draw much burn past that to win. Further, and the really sick thing is, nobody will bring in stuff to hate on the Ascension! It's a solid plan B.

[quicksilver]

I do like the idea of BloodChief Ascension in burn. Against agro decks, you can throw your burn at their creatures, while at the same time dealing them 2 and gaining two, seems like it would really help you win there.

[sco0ter]

I do like the idea of BloodChief Ascension in burn. Against agro decks, you can throw your burn at their creatures, while at the same time dealing them 2 and gaining two, seems like it would really help you win there.

Even better. You get 2 life per card. Burning their creatures means 4 life for you and -4 for life for them :smile:

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

How about with something like manabarbs?

[FoulQ]

Does anybody got a list available with the black splash in burn? Would you just play bloodchief ascension, how many MD/SB? I am very interested in this. I'm wondering if it would be worth it to play other cards like confidant. I dunno, it just scares me to ruin the holy virgin burn manabase just for one card. Is bloodchief ascension the only card in such a list?

If there is a SCD thread I'll go there but I don't see one and since this is really a simple question I'll just post it here.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Did burn suddenly become a legitimate option for creature removal? Last time I checked, Tarmogoyf, Tombstalker, Nimble Mongoose, and goblins don't care about burn too much. Yes, it is possible to activate Bloodchief Ascension somewhat easily, but burn is not a very good compliment after the fact.

[Nidd]

Hm, maybe if Burn strays away from the normal "drop land, cast burn, pass".
If Burn would feature some sort of carddraw (Sign in Blood maybe, it includes reach) and both Bloodchiefs Ascension and Pyromancers Ascension, then it could work. but I guess this would take so much deckspace alone, that the deck would get too inconsistent to be playable.

[Barook]

If you're going to splash Black, you also get Bob and maybe Sygg, River Cutthroat. Zoo can run Stp/PtE as creature removal, so why can't you run Terminate? But that's not a burn deck anymore.

I think the main problem and challenge is rather to construct a deck that

a) can charge Bloodchief Ascension fast enough to matter and to not be win-more
b) is able to put enough of your opponents cards into the graveyard to make use of Ascension once it's charged.

[Nidd]

Hm... It should be possible o flip it with UB and then cast a lethal Glimpse the Unthinkable.

[Bryant Cook]

Landbind Ritual? Seriously. Worst card ever.

[quicksilver]

Even better. You get 2 life per card. Burning their creatures means 4 life for you and -4 for life for them :smile:

It only triggers off of their cards going to the graveyard.

[Icapica]

Landbind Ritual? Seriously. Worst card ever.
Well, there's also this gem in Zendikar:

Mindless Null
2B
Creature - Zombie (Common)
Mindless Null can't block unless you control a Vampire.
2/2

Yup, strictly worse than Scathe Zombies.

[Bryant Cook]

Well, there's also this gem in Zendikar:

Mindless Null
2B
Creature - Zombie (Common)
Mindless Null can't block unless you control a Vampire.
2/2

Yup, strictly worse than Scathe Zombies.

I'd say worse than Spineless Thug.

[rufus]

Landbind Ritual? Seriously. Worst card ever.

I suppose, but really just a nothingburger. Compare Mindless Null to Bog Raider, Cadaverous Knight, Embalmed Brawler, Gutless Ghoul, Headless Horseman, Nantuko Husk, Nightscape Battlemage, Phyrexian Ghoul, Quagmire Druid, Ragamuffin, Scathe Zombies, or Warpath Ghoul. All of those are zombies with the same CC and better stats or abilities.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

Can someone post the text of this ritual?

[quicksilver]

Can someone post the text of this ritual?

Don't worry it's unplayable in every single format.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Landbind Ritual 3WW
Sorcery (U)
You gain 2 Life for each Plains you control.
"Honor this place, for our children's children will stand here and speak these same words again"
-Ayli, Kamsa cleric

[Piceli89]

New Mighty Quinn Tech !!!! :wink:

[DrJones]

More support for the Serpent tribe!!

Shoal Serpent 5:u:
Creature - Serpent (c)
Defender
Landfall - Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, Shoal Serpent loses defender until end of turn.
5/5

I'm not sure about how many times the Landfall will trigger on this one, but I like that it has defender instead of Islandhome. That way I can play it alongside with that Gargoyle from Ravnica block.

[Nihil Credo]

Incidentally...

Serpent is a synonym for snake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake).

so do they have any reason for not letting Blue's big-ass unplayable fatties play nice with Green's poisonous rarely-playable weenies?

[JeroenC]

Flavor. Serpents are completely different monsters than Snakes.

[DrJones]

Actually, in spanish both tribes have the creature type "serpiente" (snake) and thus look like as if they could be played together.

Also, I checked and think that serpent has to be the absolute worst creature type in the game.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

They're sea serpents people. We're not talking about the thing in the Garden of Eden transplanted underwater. These are incredibly large mythological beasts, plaguing the open seas and capsizing ships. What's the problem?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

It's dumb, but then I think they should just consolidate all animals into "Beasts", all the ghosts and zombies and skeletons and such into "Undead", and so on. This is a partly flavorful, partly mechanical distinction; how much consolidation do you want in your creature types?

[georgjorge]

The Cobra Trap has now a different trigger condition than first spoiled, and it's interesting...


Cobra Trap 4GG
Instant - Trap

If a noncreature permanent under your control
was destroyed this turn by a spell or ability
an opponent controlled, you may pay G rather
than pay Cobra Trap's casting cost.
Put four 1/1 green Snake creature tokens onto the battlefield.


Now would it have been too much to ask to include creature permanents ? As it is, it looks narrow, though I can see the appeal of casting the Trap off your first turn Tropical that your opponent greedily Wasted...

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

It's dumb, but then I think they should just consolidate all animals into "Beasts", all the ghosts and zombies and skeletons and such into "Undead", and so on. This is a partly flavorful, partly mechanical distinction; how much consolidation do you want in your creature types?

I like it the way it is...and it's not like it matters if this guys a snake or not...It's not as if you would put him in your Soshiro deck if he were.

I like the distinctions between different creatures...makes it much more flavorful without any drawbacks. ...Unless you're really dying to play the new octopus with Contested Cliffs.

[santeria]

they made falcons into birds. consolodating all of the creature types would help atleast casual players play a lot more unplayed cards. they do have way too many creature types though.

[quicksilver]

I wish every creature had it's own creature type. Then they wouldn't be pushing tribal so hard.

[Tilde]

I wish every creature had it's own creature type. Then they wouldn't be pushing tribal so hard.

That's how it used to be. I don't know if you remember, but Uncle Istvan tribal was the nuts.

[Volrath]

I remember the days when they thought Phyrexian could not be a creature type because therw would be to many creature types.

and now we have Kor, dauthi, soltari and even that new type sarrukar as creature types, what gives?

Phyrexians deserve there own type since they are a completly different race.

And why doe serpents always ahve to suck?, they make cheap dragons or playable ones but can't seem to conjur up a halve decent Serpent...

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

So my initial thought was that I would buy a box or five, but after taking a look at the full spoiler... I dunno. Lots of crap rares for what WotC is trying to bill as "zomg, teh best stand-alone set evar".

Anyone have a similar reaction? I'm just not so sure I wouldn't be better off just buying a shit-ton of fetch-lands and calling it a day.

[Aggro_zombies]

So my initial thought was that I would buy a box or five, but after taking a look at the full spoiler... I dunno. Lots of crap rares for what WotC is trying to bill as "zomg, teh best stand-alone set evar".

Anyone have a similar reaction? I'm just not so sure I wouldn't be better off just buying a shit-ton of fetch-lands and calling it a day.
1) Buy boxes.
2) Unload non-fetches and extra fetches in the first few days while prices are still high.
3) ???
4) Profit!

You can also set aside a box for drafting, which is what I'm going to do. I provide the packs, everyone plays with sleeves, I get the cards back at the end (or at least, the interesting stuff).

[MMogg]

It's dumb, but then I think they should just consolidate all animals into "Beasts", all the ghosts and zombies and skeletons and such into "Undead", and so on. This is a partly flavorful, partly mechanical distinction; how much consolidation do you want in your creature types?

I agree to some degree, but maybe add additional creature types to the cards like how every human is now a "human" in addition to its other type.


I wish every creature had it's own creature type. Then they wouldn't be pushing tribal so hard.

Yeah, they changed Nekrataal to Human Assassin. :rolleyes:


And why doe serpents always ahve to suck?, they make cheap dragons or playable ones but can't seem to conjur up a halve decent Serpent...

Because cheap, big, fat blue critters plus countermagic is better than cheap red fat and burn.


So my initial thought was that I would buy a box or five, but after taking a look at the full spoiler... I dunno. Lots of crap rares for what WotC is trying to bill as "zomg, teh best stand-alone set evar".

Anyone have a similar reaction? I'm just not so sure I wouldn't be better off just buying a shit-ton of fetch-lands and calling it a day.

Unless you are a Standard player or collector, busting boxes sucks. Selling shit rares? I have a stack of Invasion shit rares that is waiting to be purchased... any takers? Seriously, good rares you want to keep and only unplayable jank that no one wants is what you're left with and no one wants that.

[Aggro_zombies]

Unless you are a Standard player or collector, busting boxes sucks. Selling shit rares? I have a stack of Invasion shit rares that is waiting to be purchased... any takers? Seriously, good rares you want to keep and only unplayable jank that no one wants is what you're left with and no one wants that.
Some dealers and places like Starcity will buy them for some small amount, usually $0.10 or less. If you have a lot of them, it can be a great way to unload them for profit. I know a guy who traded with a dealer in Berkeley and ended up getting a NM Imperial Seal in English for literally thousands of crap rares.

Hooking that up in China might be a tad difficult, though.

[godryk]

Actually, in spanish both tribes have the creature type "serpiente" (snake) and thus look like as if they could be played together.

I've just checked it and the subtype "serpent" is translated as "serpiente", which may be a correct translation, but in modern spanish the word "serpiente" refers to what you call "snake" (that animal you can find in a forest and you should stay away from) while "serpent" refers to a huge mythic creature who eats galleons for breakfast. Anyway, I'm sorry to say that those new "snakes" have received the creature subtype of "víbora", which is a same, because a deck based on linguistic shenanigans would be awesome (I don't know if this should be ironic...)

[dahcmai]

Yeah 10c is about what I give for large bulk rares. There's not too many people who do more than that really. I have met one guy, but I think I scared him into oblivion when I brought over several thousand once to cash in.

I'm always up for buying rares though. You'd be amazed at what some people call crap. I have a bunch of Grindstones I got for that 10c and wasn't sad to see pop up in price later. You get lucky sometimes.

[hi-val]

LOL WUT (http://www.quietspeculation.com/2009/09/priceless-treasuresindeed.html)

[Zenzei]

I was just going to post the exact same thing. There's mad speculation going in MTGS about the matter. If true it will be insane lol. First there was a thread where someone claimed to have opened wb ancestral recall but that was shut down by staff as non-sense, then bit later this candelabra claim appeared.

Could this actually be the "good thing for legacy" which was hinted while back by Forsythe?

[Barook]

LOL WUT (http://www.quietspeculation.com/2009/09/priceless-treasuresindeed.html)
Looks like a marketing gag (http://www.kidforcecollectibles.com/)

There is no proof that the Candelabra is actually out this pack, the photo is blurry (on purpose) and the entire "ZOMG, SIGN UP FOR PRERELEASE!" is very, very fishy.

I don't believe it until Prereleases prove otherwise.

[Jade]

I was just going to post the exact same thing. There's mad speculation going in MTGS about the matter. If true it will be insane lol. First there was a thread where someone claimed to have opened wb ancestral recall but that was shut down by staff as non-sense, then bit later this candelabra claim appeared.

Could this actually be the "good thing for legacy" which was hinted while back by Forsythe?

OMG there could be Recalls in Zendikar boosters!

....

!

It could be a hoax, but small things like the announcement of what to do with wrong cards in packs and the elimination of deck swaps as well as the "treasure feeling" kinda help to believe it. I really really really hope it's true but I will have fun with my box even if it isn't - I know from Time Spiral that I'm able to open only Squires anyways :tongue:

[Otter]

The thing is, this isn't like "someinternetmeme1235" with one post spamming random crap on MTGS. This is an actual store owner posting about this on his website -- he is risking his reputation to do it. Making a random account to troll people on the rumor mill is different from staking your small business's name to do it. Either this is true or the store owner is the biggest idiot known to man and is probably going to lose his store.

[Enigma]

Of interest to all WPN Organizers and DCI tournament players are the following changes to the Magic Tournament Rules. The following changes to Limited Events go in to effect immediately:

Section 7.3 — Card Use in Limited Tournaments
Other than basic land, only cards from the expansions of the boosters opened (and only cards opened in that player's pool) may be used in a player's deck. For example, in a Magic 2010 Sealed Deck tournament, any card in a booster other then the Magic 2010 game cards received by the player and basic land may not be used in a player's deck during that tournament.

Section 7.5 — Sealed Deck Swap
In Sealed Deck tournaments, the Head Judge may require players to perform a deck swap prior to deck construction. Players receive unopened product and register the contents (except basic land cards) on deck lists. Any card in a booster that is not a card from the expansion of the opened booster is retained by the player that registers the cards (example: a player that registers the contents of a booster during a deck swap keeps the token card, if any). Players who drop from the tournament before fulfilling this duty will receive a match loss in the first round. Tournament Officials then collect the recorded card pools and re-distribute them randomly. A player may randomly receive the product he or she registered. The Head Judge should require players to sort the cards they register according to some criteria (e.g. color and then alphabetically) to assist the player receiving the pool.
These recent changes must have something to do with this rumour. There's also a guy on MTGSAL that opened a UNL Lich... I'm starting to believe this, which could be an awesome marketing strategy made by Wizard. And if we think about it, what would be the drawback for them to do so? They have pretty much nothing to lose, even a lot of sells to win, I say.

[Dan Turner]

I know that in the 6 case I have to open I better get something good LOL. If this is real i would most likely need to change pants after opening a pack with something old and valuable in it.

[conboy31]

I know wizards has these old cards, remember when there was that cube draft a year ago with like smenenienenean and other people where wizards broke out moxes, recalls, etc.

I don't know why they would need to put them in Zendikar, Flavor be damned. The set has fetches to begin with.

[hi-val]

I know wizards has these old cards, remember when there was that cube draft a year ago with like smenenienenean and other people where wizards broke out moxes, recalls, etc.

I don't know why they would need to put them in Zendikar, Flavor be damned. The set has fetches to begin with.

Wizards borrowed all that from SCG, actually.

The thing that's CRAZY is that there's no point to hoaxing this - admitting that your store sold/cracked packs before the prerelease puts you on the WOTC blacklist. If they wanted attention, they got it, but it might be the last Magic product they ever get...

[MMogg]

Even if the rumours are true and even if there's a "chance" of something crazy like a p9, who would have the balls to think they'd open it? Maybe I'm too cynical or something, but it would be in such limited quantities that you'd probably be better off playing the lottery. :cry: If you'd buy Zen for the chance of randomly inserted old cards, I think I have a shitload of ebay repacks to sell you with "a chance of a p9". :wink:

Edit: Just an afterthought... it would be like buying a Zen pack with the hope/intent of pulling a foil fetch. Yeah, there is a chance, but buying a pack for the purposes of/because they exist is a bit naive/hopeful. As I said, I'm cynical. I've never ever pulled anything amazing, ever.

[LostButSeeking]

Edit: Just an afterthought... it would be like buying a Zen pack with the hope/intent of pulling a foil fetch. Yeah, there is a chance, but buying a pack for the purposes of/because they exist is a bit naive/hopeful.

This is true, but the possibility of p9 is different in two fundamental ways.

Firstly, while the foil fetch might be worth more than a regular fetch, functionally they operate the same. No added value to the shiny fetch. There is additional play value to opening an ancestral recall over a basic land.

Secondly, the pay out is a lot higher. Right now on Ebay there's a guy selling a mint recall for 2.2 thousand dollars. My favorite online store, black and blue, has a VF one for 750. A foil fetch my get you sixty or eighty bucks (max), but that's an order of magnitude smaller than the price you'd get for the recall.

Thirdly, people, as a group, are dumb. They play the lottery and ask people much more attractive than themselves to dance. I've seen it happen.

[miro]

one minute ago, our shop owner confirmed this information.

OMG:laugh:

[DownSyndromeKarl]

The thing that's CRAZY is that there's no point to hoaxing this - admitting that your store sold/cracked packs before the prerelease puts you on the WOTC blacklist. If they wanted attention, they got it, but it might be the last Magic product they ever get...

I don't think its against any standards for a retailer to open packs before the set is released. As long as they don't sell it, it gives the store a chance to get a stock of single for when the set is released. I could be wrong, but I think it'd be asinine for Wizards to blacklist a store for wanting to have singles on hand.

[Barook]

Visual Spoiler (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?sort=color+&output=spoiler&method=visual&set=[%22Zendikar%22])

[DownSyndromeKarl]

Visual Spoiler (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?sort=color+&output=spoiler&method=visual&set=[%22Zendikar%22])

whoa whoa whoa...there's a new magic expansion? Jesus, its like they turn these things out like four times a year... :tongue:

[nodahero]

as a quick FYI gents the address on that website... is fake... I just googled the address and sure enough it isn't a card shop... for easy refrence:
http://www.google.com/search?q=224+front+st+berea+oh+44017&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

and for even easier...
http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Berea.Learning.Center.440-239-1750

[Wereodile]

Visual Spoiler (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?sort=color+&output=spoiler&method=visual&set=[%22Zendikar%22])

Call me a sucker but DAMN! I am falling in love with this set. I think I am now hooked on standard.

[grahf]

Meh. I almost gave in to the hype, then I read the spoiler again, a little more closely. There are way to many heavily conditional traps, expeditions, and Allies printed at rare, for me to be satisfied if I were to get a box. Oh, and vampires. I dislike forced linear strategies. Sure there are randomly cool rares like Conquerer's Pledge or Oracle of Mul Daya, but for every such card there is a Bala Ged Thief. Fail. Compare to M10, where virtually every rare is at least decent or has some use.

A lot of the potentially interesting cards for Legacy are common/uncommon: Pitfall trap, Spell Pierce, Ravenous Trap, Vampire Hexmage... uh, work with me here, I'm not seeing many others.

Nor am I convinced that Lotus Cobra is broken in Legacy. I'll believe it when I see it.

Not hatin', just the harsh light of reality setting in.

[FoulQ]

Nobody ever claimed Lotus Cobra is broken in Legacy. In fact, most people think the opposite. Look at the all the Lotus Cobra threads popping up: none, really.

[grahf]

Heh, very true. The proof is in the pudding I guess. Everbody's spooging about it in other formats, but of course, legacy is not other formats. Even the vintage people think it might be interesting:

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=38857.0

Of course, they have gush+fastbond to abuse it with.

[Illissius]

This is the beginning of a wonderful casual combo deck:

4 Exploration
4 Lotus Cobra
4 Squandered Resources
4 Natural Balance
4 Second Sunrise

Srsly. Dunno about the other 40 cards.

I could also see it being useful alongside Mox Diamond and Exploration for an Aggro Loam build which is less amazingly slow.

[Versus]

This is the beginning of a wonderful casual combo deck:

4 Exploration
4 Lotus Cobra
4 Squandered Resources
4 Natural Balance
4 Second Sunrise

Srsly. Dunno about the other 40 cards.


If you could just find it in your heart to find a way to include this one other gold card (http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGMIR/cadaverous_bloom.jpg), you would make all my e-dreams come true!

[rufus]

This is the beginning of a wonderful casual combo deck:

4 Exploration
4 Lotus Cobra
4 Squandered Resources
4 Natural Balance
4 Second Sunrise

Hmm... not sure I like the Second Sunrise...how about some Early Harvest and/or Skeletal Scrying instead?

[Illissius]

If you could just find it in your heart to find a way to include this one other gold card (http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGMIR/cadaverous_bloom.jpg), you would make all my e-dreams come true!

Sure, just add some card drawing and Blooms, there's no reason why not. But there's also no reason Squandered Resources and Cadaverous Bloom have to go together, the reason the old ProsBloom decks used both is because that's all they had -- it was basically two combo decks grafted on top of each other.

And Second Sunrise is sick, you get back everything you sacrificed to Resources -- untapped -- and trigger the Cobra that many times, not to mention any fetchlands or other sacrificable permanents you might have used. Early Harvest only works for basics, and Scrying does completely different things.

[johanessen]

Enchantress Bloom used to play Tendrils to finish the game. Some versions also played Squandered/Balance.

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27753
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27465
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=12625

[vigilante]

Enchantress Bloom used to play Tendrils to finish the game. Some versions also played Squandered/Balance.

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=12625

Lies! Cavius The Great invented Enchantress Bloom, not the Germans!

[Volrath]

Lies! Cavius The Great invented Enchantress Bloom, not the Germans!



You said the dreaded name of he who shall not be named!