Jdisler
08-12-2009, 02:27 AM
I will be the first to admit, survival decks are tier 2. They tend to be a turn too slow vs. the current aggro decks and not resilient enough to batter through heavy control decks. With that being said, it is an archetype that has all the tools to win any matchup, can easily overwhelm a player unfamiliar with it, and win with a severely undermatched board position as long as that magical enchantment is active.
This is a tempo deck with a combo finish. Hold off the offensive while gaining resources, for a win that comes a turn or two before the opponent expects it.
The list as it is now:
Land:20
6x forest
2x savannah
2x bayou
1x scrubland
1x taiga
4x windswept heath
4x wooded foothills
Disruption: 8
4x cabal therapy
3x thoughtseize
1x extirpate
Engine: 5
4x Survival of the fittest
1x squee, goblin boob
Mana creatures: 10
4x bird of paradise
3x wall of roots
1x quiron ranger
1x wood elves
1x rofellos llanowar emissary
Combo Creatures: 5
2x Karmic guide
1x carrion feeder
1x revilark
1x murderous redcap
Utility Creatures: 12
3x eternal witness
1x shriekmaw
1x Spike feeder
1x genesis
1x acidic slime
1x ranger of Eos
1x anger
1x quasali pridemage
1x fleshbag maruader
1x Spore Frog
SB: 15
3x krosan grip
4x orim's chant
4x engineered plague
4x (meta slots)
Card discussion:
Where's tarmogoyf?
It's strange to see a green Legacy deck that doesn't include this vanilla 2drop that defines the format. But he is just plain ineffective in what this deck tries to accomplish. Without the cantrips of a tempo control deck, he comes down turn two as a 1/2 or 0/1, often burnable, and not the solid wall the deck would like him to be.
No basic swamp, plains, or mountain?
Even though this will effect matches where those basics could help the cause, the deck craves green, and offcolor basics clog up the mana flow.
the discard suite....1 extirpate?
In tempo advantage aggroer versions of survival, these slots would carry equipment, or swords to plowshares. In this version, it keeps the deck viable. Cabal Therapy rewards good playing, and sometimes blind luck. It yields critical information even when it misses, and can rape a hand like no other 1drop discard spell. Thoughtseize is obvious, but becomes weaker as the game progresses, and that's where the extirpate comes in, to make up for the late game weakness of thoughtseize, extirpate is a late game winner. And who doesn't like 3 for 1's.
How the combo works:
In the yard: Karmic guide, carrion feeder, Murderous redcap
Evoking revilark reanimating karmic guide and feeder. Karmic guide reanimates revilark. Sac guide, then revilark, Lark reanimates murderous redcap and karmic guide. guide reanimates Revilark. Rinse and repeat til opponent scoops in dismay.
if you want have fun replace the redcap with acidic slime to cap all their land, or replace redcap with spike feeder for infy life.
Matchups:
Vs. Goblins. 45-55 in goblin's favor. this is not an unwinnable match. but it can be trying. you almost want to see a vial opening as it buys you an extra turn. a turn one lackey is neary game over most times. i had a game where after he opened with lackey i ripped the three goblins out of his hand, only for him to mise a ringleader off the top and roll me. Plague out of the board is usually the deciding factor. depending on the hand, the land disruption can really hurt and cost the game. they board relic and krosan grip if splashing green.
Vs. Countertop/threshesque 55-45 in survival's favor. this is a match where the discard shines. their threats are sporadic and if survival breaks the counter wall it becomes hard to lose. Krosan grip comes in to handle counterbalance and the relic of progenitus they board. Sower of temptation and trygon predator can win games for the tempo control player.
vs. Loam 60-40 in survival's favor. loam comes out of the gate relatively slow, allowing time for resources to gather and survival to become active. Devasting Dreams can come out to to roll the survival player but despite that survival can usually reach inevitability before the loam player.
vs Merfolk 65-35 in merfolk's favor. this is a difficult matchup. it can be a thoroughly fast aggro deck, with the ability to counter survival.
vs. Dredge 70-30 in survival's favor. spore frog is a star. And bridges can be quite easy to take care of.
vs. Enchantress 70-30 survival's favor. the discard and silver bullets in survival's aresenal can tear this deck to shreds.
vs.Zoo 70-30 in zoo's favor. This deck is quick, and can out burn you before you get to do much. Price of progress can be scary. discard can really help you get there, along with spike feeder. post board their krosan grips are scary then any other for it barely effects their clock.
vs. Landstill 60-40 in landstill's favor. Landstill is really tough, the turn two survival almost never sticks and going aggro isn't enough to finish the job. genesis is the star for what are usually long and tiring games.
vs Stax 60-40 in survival's favor. Stax is all about board position and it isnt hard for survival to out permanent stax. the discard can usually take out the problematic stuff like humility armageddon and elspeth. humility is an autolose game one. armageddon can be played around with enough birds and walls and holding a land or two. Elspeth is almost always an autolose if the survival player hasn't reached inevitability yet. pridemage and acidic slime are the stars.
Problematic cards:
Krosan grip. for obvious reasons. whenever playing green postboard, the survival player must grab an eternal witness ASAP no matter how much it slows the roll.
Relic of progenitus. kills the squee engine and just plan makes thing difficult. the survival player can only play around it so much without having to deal with it with pridemage slime or grip
daze. a hard call. sometimes you want to play around it sometimes you want to play right into it to eat it. if an Eternal witness is in the survival player's hand, he has to play into it and hope the witness resolves next turn.
tormods crypt. actually isnt as bad as relic. easier to play around, and easier to force the opponent to blow prematurely with an eternal witness
Humility. equals game over without a krosan grip. :(
**thanks for reading this. i hope to post more relevant information (the SB meta slots and sample hands) on this list in the near future**
This is a tempo deck with a combo finish. Hold off the offensive while gaining resources, for a win that comes a turn or two before the opponent expects it.
The list as it is now:
Land:20
6x forest
2x savannah
2x bayou
1x scrubland
1x taiga
4x windswept heath
4x wooded foothills
Disruption: 8
4x cabal therapy
3x thoughtseize
1x extirpate
Engine: 5
4x Survival of the fittest
1x squee, goblin boob
Mana creatures: 10
4x bird of paradise
3x wall of roots
1x quiron ranger
1x wood elves
1x rofellos llanowar emissary
Combo Creatures: 5
2x Karmic guide
1x carrion feeder
1x revilark
1x murderous redcap
Utility Creatures: 12
3x eternal witness
1x shriekmaw
1x Spike feeder
1x genesis
1x acidic slime
1x ranger of Eos
1x anger
1x quasali pridemage
1x fleshbag maruader
1x Spore Frog
SB: 15
3x krosan grip
4x orim's chant
4x engineered plague
4x (meta slots)
Card discussion:
Where's tarmogoyf?
It's strange to see a green Legacy deck that doesn't include this vanilla 2drop that defines the format. But he is just plain ineffective in what this deck tries to accomplish. Without the cantrips of a tempo control deck, he comes down turn two as a 1/2 or 0/1, often burnable, and not the solid wall the deck would like him to be.
No basic swamp, plains, or mountain?
Even though this will effect matches where those basics could help the cause, the deck craves green, and offcolor basics clog up the mana flow.
the discard suite....1 extirpate?
In tempo advantage aggroer versions of survival, these slots would carry equipment, or swords to plowshares. In this version, it keeps the deck viable. Cabal Therapy rewards good playing, and sometimes blind luck. It yields critical information even when it misses, and can rape a hand like no other 1drop discard spell. Thoughtseize is obvious, but becomes weaker as the game progresses, and that's where the extirpate comes in, to make up for the late game weakness of thoughtseize, extirpate is a late game winner. And who doesn't like 3 for 1's.
How the combo works:
In the yard: Karmic guide, carrion feeder, Murderous redcap
Evoking revilark reanimating karmic guide and feeder. Karmic guide reanimates revilark. Sac guide, then revilark, Lark reanimates murderous redcap and karmic guide. guide reanimates Revilark. Rinse and repeat til opponent scoops in dismay.
if you want have fun replace the redcap with acidic slime to cap all their land, or replace redcap with spike feeder for infy life.
Matchups:
Vs. Goblins. 45-55 in goblin's favor. this is not an unwinnable match. but it can be trying. you almost want to see a vial opening as it buys you an extra turn. a turn one lackey is neary game over most times. i had a game where after he opened with lackey i ripped the three goblins out of his hand, only for him to mise a ringleader off the top and roll me. Plague out of the board is usually the deciding factor. depending on the hand, the land disruption can really hurt and cost the game. they board relic and krosan grip if splashing green.
Vs. Countertop/threshesque 55-45 in survival's favor. this is a match where the discard shines. their threats are sporadic and if survival breaks the counter wall it becomes hard to lose. Krosan grip comes in to handle counterbalance and the relic of progenitus they board. Sower of temptation and trygon predator can win games for the tempo control player.
vs. Loam 60-40 in survival's favor. loam comes out of the gate relatively slow, allowing time for resources to gather and survival to become active. Devasting Dreams can come out to to roll the survival player but despite that survival can usually reach inevitability before the loam player.
vs Merfolk 65-35 in merfolk's favor. this is a difficult matchup. it can be a thoroughly fast aggro deck, with the ability to counter survival.
vs. Dredge 70-30 in survival's favor. spore frog is a star. And bridges can be quite easy to take care of.
vs. Enchantress 70-30 survival's favor. the discard and silver bullets in survival's aresenal can tear this deck to shreds.
vs.Zoo 70-30 in zoo's favor. This deck is quick, and can out burn you before you get to do much. Price of progress can be scary. discard can really help you get there, along with spike feeder. post board their krosan grips are scary then any other for it barely effects their clock.
vs. Landstill 60-40 in landstill's favor. Landstill is really tough, the turn two survival almost never sticks and going aggro isn't enough to finish the job. genesis is the star for what are usually long and tiring games.
vs Stax 60-40 in survival's favor. Stax is all about board position and it isnt hard for survival to out permanent stax. the discard can usually take out the problematic stuff like humility armageddon and elspeth. humility is an autolose game one. armageddon can be played around with enough birds and walls and holding a land or two. Elspeth is almost always an autolose if the survival player hasn't reached inevitability yet. pridemage and acidic slime are the stars.
Problematic cards:
Krosan grip. for obvious reasons. whenever playing green postboard, the survival player must grab an eternal witness ASAP no matter how much it slows the roll.
Relic of progenitus. kills the squee engine and just plan makes thing difficult. the survival player can only play around it so much without having to deal with it with pridemage slime or grip
daze. a hard call. sometimes you want to play around it sometimes you want to play right into it to eat it. if an Eternal witness is in the survival player's hand, he has to play into it and hope the witness resolves next turn.
tormods crypt. actually isnt as bad as relic. easier to play around, and easier to force the opponent to blow prematurely with an eternal witness
Humility. equals game over without a krosan grip. :(
**thanks for reading this. i hope to post more relevant information (the SB meta slots and sample hands) on this list in the near future**