Crotchety U/W Control

[Wiw]

Well, I have a geezer of an idea for ya'll to behold and berate. I'd like to make it better without betraying the basic idea. With that being said:

Critterz:
x1 Morphling
x2 Exalted Angel
x4 Ophidian

Counterspells:
x4 Force of Will
x4 Counterspell
x3 Spellsnare
x4 Swords to Plowshares

Draw:
x2 Fact or Fiction
x4 Brainstorm
x3 Ponder

Other spells:
X2 Decree of Justice
x2 Powder Keg
x2 Vedalken Shackles

Land:
x4 Wasteland
x4 Flooded Strand
x4 Tundra
x9 Island
x2 Plains

Sideboard:
x4 Sphere of Law
x3 Jotun grunt
x3 Meddling Mage
x3 Back to Basics
x2 Wrath of God

[MTG-Fan]

Whoa there, buddy.

We've kind of evolved past Ophidian as a draw engine, haven't we?

[Wiw]

But I like Ophidian. D:

You replied fast. Since you don't like Ophidian, tell me what I would like even moar. >:F

Or maybe I should play Browse. Kidding. ;p

[sauce]

play a split of 2 jace 2 elspeth instead of ophidian.

[Roman Candle]

UW Control

1 Eternal Dragon
2 Elspeth
1 Jace Beleren
2 Decree of Justice

3 Fact or Fiction
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Cunning Wish

4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Wrath of God

4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Dust Bowl
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
4 Island
3 Plains

SB: 4 Counterbalance
SB: 3 Negate
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Path to Exile
SB: 1 Return To Dust
SB: 1 Pulse of the Fields
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 1 Fact or Fiction

Or something to that effect. I'd really like to get a Forbid in the Wishboard somewhere, but I don't know if there's room.

[Wiw]

JACE! I mean. I've never played with Jace. But why play an Ophidian that can be attacked, cannot chump block, cannot attack for damage, cannot kill small creatures, is legendary, makes Tarmogoyf bigger, and lets my opponent draw cards otherwise lets me draw three at the most? HMMM I'm not sold on that card. I need convincing. Someone enlighten me.

I can agree with Elspeth though, that make sense to me because she makes tokens, also she makes tokens into bigger better creatures and is cheap to play. Seems like a solid alternate win condition in control.

And Roman I certianly like your emphasis on mass removal, though I'm curious if there's a reason you wouldn't play Angel in Blue/white control.

[Hopo]

Playing with Ophidian when you have options like Augury Adept doesn't make people to take you seriously. Also, what is this "geezer of an idea" you mentioned? All I see is a decklist without even a trace of explanations for card choices.

[MMogg]

Playing with Ophidian when you have options like Augury Adept doesn't make people to take you seriously.

Although I agree that AA is a better card than Ophidian in this deck, I wouldn't go so far as to say that choosing to run an Ophid over AA means others ought not take you seriously. One reason I could see for running Ophid is secrecy. Revealing each card you draw off of the AA isn't such a good thing. If you don't believe me, why not play with your hand revealed to your opponent for each game you play? :wink: At least there is a conceivable reason to choose him.

[Doks]

Despite the fact that we already have a U/W Control Thread in the established deck section (check here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7731)) I agree that Phid is more or less obsolete, at least in U/W Control (still some people play it in MUC though).

I like the basic concept posted by Roman Candle but from my experience one should either go C. Wish OR Top because you really sould run more counters. I wouldn't cut Wincons or Removal (the 4/3/3 StoP, Wrath, EE is pretty solid) so the draw is the only option. It is even supported by Jace so you could cut 1-2 draw slots for 1-2 additional Counterspells.

Might look like this:


4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Mishra's Factory
6 Island
3 Plains
1 Academy Ruins

2 Elspeth
0-2 Jace
1 Eternal Dragon
2 Decree of Justice

4 FoW
3 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare

4 StoP
3 Wrath
3 EE
1 Nevinyrral's Disk (seriously)

4 Brainstorm
4 Fact or Fiction
2-3 Sensei's Divinig Top / C. Wish


Another approach might be to cut Mishra's for a more stable mana base (-3 Mishra, +2 Island). This leaves one slot and cutting Disk makes room for 2 Vedalken Shackles as you play enough Islands then.

[Wiw]

I have neglected explaining my card choices and I think some of them definitely do require an explanation. I assume my counterspells can go without explaination. Everyone knows that Force, Spellsnare, and Swords are probably automatic includes and counterspell also justifies itself.

Morphling: Some people may not like him any more because he's a late-game win condition and only helps me if I'm already winning. However, when I do reach the late game, he's a shrouded wall with infinite defense that can even defend against a tarmogoyf (sadly, can no longer kill a tarmogoyf thanks to the m2010 rules) that flies and attacks for five. Spells played in legacy that can remove him once he has resolved are rare and in my deck he functions as a secondary late-game win condition versus exalted angel. Plus I have a long history with this creature, and own some very nice ones that I'd like to play in a deck again. Mainly a Japanese one signed and altered by RK Post so the picture appears like a cat and a fox.

Exalted Angel: If I protect the morph early game with force of wills, most decks in legacy cannot outrace an angel. She might get dazed versus various threshold builds if I do not play around it and doesn't have anything like shroud, and is boltable if I morph her. However the benefits of protecting this creature versus an aggro deck or another control deck are many and worthwhile.

Ophidian: Probably the most controversial deck decision I've made here. Ophidian in a deck with four swords, vedalken shackles, powder keg, and various counterspells should be able to attack and draw me a card on most turns. Augurie Adept and Jace have been suggested as alternatives. I'm not sold on Jace for reasons I mentioned in an earlier post, and not letting my opponent know how many lands or counterspells are in one's hand is vital for the success of a control deck, perhaps more so than dealing two damage and occasionally gaining some life. Ophidian is also a card I go way back with and enjoy playing. I have cut it from control decks in the past, in which case I either ran T for Ks, Accumulated Knowledge, lots of filter and Fact or Fictions, or Life From the Loam with cycling lands. Life from the Loam is not an option here, T for K cannot easily be optimized in my current build, buuuut if you all really think Ophidian will do nothing for me today I'm willing to try your alternatives. I just don't think this is as bad as you're all saying.

Powder Keg: this is run for the same reasons one would run Engineered Explosives, though I'm seriously considering running EE in conjunction or instead of this because it's good to kill counterbalances. Powder Keg can kill manlands and things with converted manacost three or greater, and is just as frequently a two or three for one as EE.

Vedalken Shackles: It's removal and an alternate win condition. The really swell thing is that it never goes away unless it's made to. It just sits out there stealing tarmogoyfs and that black delve guy, wrecking my opponent's face, stealing turns, and keeping the path clear for Ophidian.

Decree of Justice: Avoids counterspells and counterbalance and is a strong alternate win condition. I don't think I've hardcasted it in legacy but I have in other formats, and I don't dismiss the possibility.

Sideboard Jotun Grunt: Super-effective versus threshold, loam-gro, ichorid, fit, and often other control decks. The cumulative upkeep is often paid for several turns in these matches and disables graveyard abuse for a while. It's always going to be bigger than tarmogoyf and prevents people from playing their 5/5 flyer delve guy. So I like it.

Sideboard Sphere of Law: It'd be easy to argue with me on this deck decision, I kind of like that with only one resolved, the only goblin that can deal damage to me is piledriver and it's strong against burn. If you want to convince me maybe hydroblast or propaganda would serve me better, I'd certainly hear you out, because I'm not 100% on this choice.

Sideboard Wrath of God: I feel like this card generally won't resolve in legacy, or it won't do enough and force me to tap out on my turn, though in some matches like the Zoo match-up it does do its job and should be played.


Things I could include but am not running at the moment:

Nevinyrral's Disk: An oldie but goldie, but I think it might be a little slow and easy to deal with in today's format.

Engineered Explosives: I want to run this.

Jace: I don't think slowly drawing three cards off of this guy is better than having two ophidians in play at once.... sorry. I understand ophidian can be blocked, but if there are creatures in play Jace can be attacked, and I'll just have cycled him for three at sorcery speed and have no draw engine. So, I'd rather have non-functional ophidians that can block for me than have Jace be dead meat, worst case scenario. In the best case scenario, when there are no creatures which is what my deck is trying to accomplish, having two ophidians is still better than one jace. Having one ophidian is better than one Jace, because jace will either let my opponent draw or only draw me three cards. Ophidian will draw me more than three cards without letting my opponent draw first. So... Jace won't make it. And Jace can be pithing needled.

Filter + more fact or fiction: Seems viable but actually I worry about its consistency. A long time ago, when I tried to run Mono Blue Control without Ophidians, only using filters and fact or fictions, I was finding that often I wasn't getting to my fact or fictions frequently enough. Or that I'd have to hide away fact or fictions with impulses when I needed counterspells. So I'd rather have 6 cards that will multiply my hand size, but, it's not necessarily a bad suggestion and I could be convinced to try it again.

[Roman Candle]

Exalted Angel is pretty bad in a format with StP.

Basically, you shouldn't have to spend counters protecting win conditions.

[Wiw]

hmmm... thanks for your constructive comments, Roman.

As much as I love angel you have a good point. Maybe I should cut the angels, add a morphling (or maybe Elspeth) and an EE?

[maggot870]

Hiho! I play UW Control (Landstill) too and my first thoughts to your deck were like this:

Critterz:
x1 Morphling slow and manaintensive. I love him too, but M10 gave him a huge Kick in the nuts, you should give Elspeth a shot, I know it's a different approach on a permanent but she's just huge.
x2 Exalted Angel Interesting, maybe really worth a shot but as Roman Candle already said, we play a Format with lots of STP / P2E effects and red is running rampage atm. I'd cut at least 1 for a Planeswalker (read Elspeth)
x4 Ophidian it is a good card but I think SHM/EVE made him look weaker, compared to AAdept and Cold-eyed Selkie, this really needs testing / depends on your playstyle. I'd cut 1 of them for a crucible or Relic of Progenitus.

Counterspells:
x4 Force of Will
x4 Counterspell maybe I'd cut 1 here for a Vendilion Clique
x3 Spellsnare
x4 Swords to Plowshares

Draw:
x2 Fact or Fiction should / could be a wrath
x4 Brainstorm
x3 Ponder Sensei's >> Ponder in a Controldeck imho. maybe go for 2 SDT 1 Jace/E tutor as you're running a lot of Artifact, I could think of E Tutor as the 4th Ophidian.

Other spells:
X2 Decree of Justice
x2 Powder Keg shitty paired with Shackles and more so doesn't hit Chants (Survival etc) WoG + Disc looks just superior
x2 Vedalken Shackles

Land:
x4 Wasteland -1 +1 academy ruins you run a lot of Metal which alone justifies this choice to me
x4 Flooded Strand
x4 Tundra
x9 Island
x2 Plains

Sideboard:
x4 Sphere of Law nice one !
x3 Jotun grunt ok vs ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh and other yard abuser
x3 Meddling Mage n/c but did you give Runed Halo a shot ?`
x3 Back to Basics as long as you're UW its ok, if you decide to go for EE this is the first thing to cut ^^
x2 Wrath of God

Ok, that's my 2 cents to your deck. I'm really looking forward to what this deck will turn out :D.

gratz,
Smok3r