UGR Dreadnought Hybride

[Tangle.Wire]

Hi, after trying to get feedback for my current UGR Dreadnought deck i tried to post in 3 different threads Countertop, Dreadstill and Tempo Thresh! but i was told to make an own thread cause the Deck wasnt any of those.

The List is quiete similar to all 3 of these decks and actually looks like this:

3 Dreadnought
4 Goofy
2 Trinket Mage

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
3 Daze
3 Counterbalance
3 Divining Top
4 Fire//Ice
2 Ponder
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Stifle

4 Volcanic Island
4 Tropical Island
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Island
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:

4 lightning Bolt
2 Firespout
2 Krosan Grip
4 Pyroblast
3 Tormods Crypt

As you see the Deck got many parts from Tempo Thresh! but as it includes Counterbalance and Dreadnoughts its not the same way to play, also its not as controllish as Dreadstill.

The Idea of the List came by the evolving Aggro decks like Zoo, Fish, Goblins ~ Survival and Countertop builds which are played very common around my meta. Personally i feld like the UGR Dreadstill List was a bit weak against those archetypes preboard while Tempo Thresh! is pretty solid but often to unlucky when i was playing it even against good matchups and Thresh! gets very weak on the lategame if your not able to win fast enough.

I'd like to get some idead about the maindeck build beeing able speed up even without dreadnoughts but also can survive the mid-lategame in fact thats why we need the counterbalance.

[Shimi]

You should test it and show your results in Dreadstill topic , some players are considering the idea of tempo in dreadstill and it could be a good discussion especialy because merfolks are very popular in nowdays.

[Brad Herbig]

Just letting you know, using both CounterTop and Stifle/Wasteland in the same deck don't usually work. The two strategies conflict with each other (turn one top or mana for stifle?), and it is probably best to choose one and stick with it. If you are going for a Tempo Thresh hybrid, you would want the Stifle/Wasteland.

[whienot]

...i tried to post in 3 different threads Countertop, Dreadstill and Tempo Thresh! but i was told to make an own thread cause the Deck wasnt any of those.


You should test it and show your results in Dreadstill

/fail


On to the topic. How do you feel about Trinket Mage here? Don't get me wrong, I love the card, but don't think he fits as well when working the tempo angle. Though, I can see dropping the Magi will weaken the 12/12 plan since you're only playing 4 stifle.

How do you feel about the 2 Ponders? I prefer at least 3, because 1st turn Brainstorm/Ponder to set up turn 2 Counterbalance is fantastic (better than T1 top)

[GRIMACE]

Is Fire/Ice really better maindeck than Lightning Bolt?

I realize that Fire can occasionally 2-for-1 and the availability of being able to tap+cantrip is nice, but the advantages of 3 damage for R are difficult to overlook. I suppose it depends on your metagame, but being able to deal with zoo creatures, merfolk creatures (especially with lords and such), T1 lackey, and early goyfs is a huge plus. Not to mention if thrown at the head to end the game, more damage for less mana isn't bad.

[Dark_Cynic87]

Well, that's normally true, but Stifle serves other purposes in the list, they aren't necessarily aimed at stopping a fetch. They are there for Dreadnought, primarily. The fact that they are good against fetches, wastelands, Vial, Tendrils/EtW, EE/Deed, Top activations, and many, many other things is simply a plus. In your scenario you would be playing the Top first, not leaving your mana open for a stifle. The primary defense for the list is still CB, but stifle can be used if necessary. Wasteland might not be necessary. You might try running them in the board if you can think of a list you would play against that you would use LD and Stifle for a fetch primarily. However, I think Daze undercuts CB and that's counterproductive, and should be removed from the list. Using that strategy, if you play daze before turn 2's main phase, you slow down your CB by a turn. Your goal is to land cb turn 2 so that you can drop your Dreadnought and Stifle protected on turn 3. Also, Fire/Ice seems worse than Lightning Bolt. Do you have a reason why Bolt's in the board and F//I is maindecked?

Also in your sideboard, why are you using 4 Pyroblast? I don't really understand what they are there for. If it's for Merfolk, I would think you would want more Firespouts, rather than more spot removal. I'd run another K. Grip and another Firespout. Leave 2 blasts or put 2 wastelands in the board. I also suggest trying out 1 Relic in place of a Tormod's Crypt. It's better IMO against Loam builds. Hell, you may even want to try 2x Relic, 1x Crypt.

On your land, I think it would help to drop Strands, and go up to 4x Deltas and then use 2x Wooded Foothills, and drop in either a Forest, Mountain, or a mixture of both. being able to fetch a forest to cast a Krosan Grip at a Blood Moon could help, and it still grabs both Duals. You could probably even go up to a 3/3 spit on Foothills/Delta. You could also drop two wastelands for the slots to run 2 MD and 2 in the board. If you still wanted the Wastes, you could go down to 3x on one or both.

Just my thoughts,

Pce,

--DC

EDIT: Damn, too slow.

[Shimi]

/fail


On to the topic. How do you feel about Trinket Mage here? Don't get me wrong, I love the card, but don't think he fits as well when working the tempo angle. Though, I can see dropping the Magi will weaken the 12/12 plan since you're only playing 4 stifle.

How do you feel about the 2 Ponders? I prefer at least 3, because 1st turn Brainstorm/Ponder to set up turn 2 Counterbalance is fantastic (better than T1 top)

Just check the last posts in dreadstill topic and you will find that what he propouses in very relevent for the currenty discussion , and it WASN'T when he posted his list and that is why i'm say that i would be interresting to post there NOW so please try to think more before posting bullshit.

On topic: If you really wants to go for tempo in dreadstill i agree that CB/Top and trinket mage should be cut off.

[Rood]

Is Fire/Ice really better maindeck than Lightning Bolt?

I realize that Fire can occasionally 2-for-1 and the availability of being able to tap+cantrip is nice, but the advantages of 3 damage for R are difficult to overlook. I suppose it depends on your metagame, but being able to deal with zoo creatures, merfolk creatures (especially with lords and such), T1 lackey, and early goyfs is a huge plus. Not to mention if thrown at the head to end the game, more damage for less mana isn't bad.

This. Lightning Bolt seems like it's a hell of alot better in here then Fire/Ice will be in almost any situation for you. Also this deck seems like Tempo Thresh I don't know why you want both with CB/Top it seems like you really don't like going to late game. You don't run a pure CA draw engine to net you cards late game so I don't see why you'd want to use CB/Top in here instead of cards to destroy in the early game.

[Tangle.Wire]

This. Lightning Bolt seems like it's a hell of alot better in here then Fire/Ice will be in almost any situation for you. Also this deck seems like Tempo Thresh I don't know why you want both with CB/Top it seems like you really don't like going to late game. You don't run a pure CA draw engine to net you cards late game so I don't see why you'd want to use CB/Top in here instead of cards to destroy in the early game.

Sry guys i think u kinda missunderstand me, i wasnt sure how to setup the tempo list at all cause i know that Dreadnought strategy disrupts my own wasteland/stifle plan so i should focus un quick solutions other than the mana denial. Also i dont wanted to play the Counter/Top in the aggro list at all but the problem here is that we need to disrupt and protect the dreadnought 2-3 turns at all.

The more common of aggro Decks like Zoo, Merfolk etc needs to get answers with a maindeck full of counters i think we will not be able to win these matchups preboarding so here is what i would like to see in the maindeck:

2-4 Fire//Ice
3-4 Lightning Bolt
2 Firespout

As Lightning bolt does only have a single target i feel like 3+ are needed, fire//ice is a bit more flexible so 2 could be enough if we dont wanna cut to many counter.

I also had the idea of 2 firespouts cause other like bot they sweep the board and the damage on players is not really needed here, i just dont like the sorcery speed but maybe 2 fire//ice and 1 firespout maindeck could be the way we deal with aggro?