The combo in cdr's sig

[Ectoplasm]

“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney

So, I'd like to know if this actually does anything and if it does, what?

Nature's Revolt (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=25592)
Opalescence (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=15142)
two Unstable Shapeshifter (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4740)s
Here it comes: One of which started as a doppelganger, this could mean either:
A: Dimir Doppelganger (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=83850) did this card exist when he put that text in his sig?
B: Shifty Doppelganger (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=31823) for some reason I have a hunch it might be this, since it's by far the most complicated of the three
C: Vesuvan Doppelganger (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=159820)
A tide, this could be anything from high tide to solar tide, but somehow I think he means Parallax Tide (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=22035) since this involves lands and making stuff appear/disappear.
An animated land, shouldn't be too hard with nature's revolt
A creature with fading
A Silver Wyvern (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=5103)
A way to get a creature into play in response to stuff
A way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land)
And the help of

http://i25.tinypic.com/2aka7w1.jpg

I think it has to do with removing someone's land and keeping it removed by glitching parallax wave together with opalescence but that's just a vague assumption. Anyone willing to help out and decipher this strange interaction?

[cdr]

A "hint" - it's highly, highly unlikely that this works anymore, but it did at one point in time. Dave DeLaney hasn't been around in a long time.

[quicksilver]

Parallax Wave :2::w::w:
Enchantment
Fading 5 (This enchantment enters the battlefield with five fade counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a fade counter from it. If you can't, sacrifice it.)
Remove a fade counter from Parallax Wave: Exile target creature if Parallax Wave is on the battlefield.
When Parallax Wave leaves the battlefield, each player returns to the battlefield all cards other than Parallax Wave he or she owns exiled with Parallax Wave.


Parallax Tide :2::u::u:
Enchantment
Fading 5 (This enchantment enters the battlefield with five fade counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a fade counter from it. If you can't, sacrifice it.)
Remove a fade counter from Parallax Tide: Exile target land if Parallax Tide is on the battlefield.
When Parallax Tide leaves the battlefield, each player returns to the battlefield all cards he or she owns exiled with Parallax Tide.


Now these cards are virtually identical except one effects lands and the other effects creatures. You will notice however that the Wave has an extra bit of text saying it does not bring itself back, where the tide does not.

This errata was to prevent you from animating the Wave via something like opalescence, removing itself and generally abusing the shit out of it.

The Tide does not have this errata because turning the Tide into a land was far, far more difficult.

So the quote in CDR's signature is in response to the Wave errata and lack of Tide errata in which Dave DeLaney describes the process of turning Parallax Tide into a land to abuse it like you could with the wave. And by showing how complicated it was proves the Tide did not need the errata. Nowadays however there may be a simpler way to do it.

[Ectoplasm]

So you get an animated land, get the unstable shapeshifter to transform into a land, remove it with the tide, play the wyvern in response to removing it which in turn makes the shapeshifter become a wyvern, redirect the removal to the tide and that's it?
There's still some missing links it seems :)

[Nightmare]

Realistically, it takes:

Opalescence
Dryad Arbor
Silver Wyvern
Unstable Shapeshifter
Aether Vial (@4)

With Tide, Shapeshifter, Vial, and Opalescence in play, play your land for the turn (arbor). Tide the Shapeshifter, in response vial in the Wyvern and redirect the ability to the Tide.

[Skeggi]

So it requires a Vial@5.

[Nightmare]

Right. Pretend I know what cards cost.

[Skeggi]

Sorry, I am at work and wasn't able to finish my post. I was wondering what the combo is for. Can you make endless mana with it, for instance?

In play are 4 lands, Aether Vial@5, Unstable Shapeshifter, Dryad Arbor, Opalescence and a Parallax Tide with all its counters...

You can't Tide the Shapeshifter because he's not a land... but what if you could...

You Vial in the Wyvern in response to tiding the Shapeshifter, Shapeshifter becomes the Wyvern, you 'bounce' the ability to Tide? But Tide isn't a land... But what if it was...

Tide would be exiled, but all permanents come back, so Tide comes back with 5 counters, and the 4 lands come back, you can now tap them agains for mana.

But you can't Vial in your Wyvern anymore because the Aether Vial is tapped and the Wyvern is already in play.

I guess I'm totally missing something here... someone help me out?

[Nihil Credo]

Realistically, it takes:

Opalescence
Dryad Arbor
Silver Wyvern
Unstable Shapeshifter
Aether Vial (@4)

With Tide, Shapeshifter, Vial, and Opalescence in play, play your land for the turn (arbor). Tide the Shapeshifter, in response vial in the Wyvern and redirect the ability to the Tide.

That doesn't work. Parallax Tide is a creature now (Opalescence) so it satisfies Wyvern's requirement, but it's not a land so it is still not a legal target for its own ability (which says "target land").

You'd have to throw in a Cytoshape to turn Tide into a Dryad Arbor just before activating Silver Wyvern's ability, but then Tide wouldn't have the leaves-play ability any more and would stay exiled.

In fact, the whole combo (recycling Parallax Tide forever by having it exile itself and immediately return to play with five fresh counters) requires either of the following:

a) Changing "Exile target land" into "Exile target creature/enchantment/etc."; or
b) Turning Parallax Tide into a land while having it retain its leaves-play ability

I'm pretty sure a) is impossible, and I fear b) may be too.

Incidentally, shouldn't Parallax Wave's clearly power-level errata have been removed by now?

[Locutus]

All you need is (in play):
Mycosinth Lattice
March of the Machines
Conspiracy set to Saproling
Life and Limb

and basically all your permanents will be artifact creature lands. Of course you can replace Lattice+March with Opalescene if you only care about turning Tide into a land ;)

[parallax]

I'm not 100% what the combo's supposed to do, but you can turn the Shapeshifter into a Safe Haven, activate its ability targeting itself, and then turn it into Parallax Tide. Doesn't seem to accomplish much.

Heck, I'm not even sure what Opalescence-Parallax Wave was supposed to do.

[cdr]

I can't find the original message now, sadly.

David DeLaney was the NetRep for rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules for a long time. Surprisingly, I just checked the group, and he's actually still active in it - even though he's not the NetRep anymore.

The question was essentially "Can Parallax Tide remove itself from the game?", asked circa the time the card was released.

[Malchar]

For clarification, the original combo was this:
1. Opalescence + Parallax Wave are in play.
2. (Optional) Activate Parallax Wave targetting any number of creatures (or enchantments due to Opalescence) that you want to flicker.
3. Without having to pass priority, activate Parallax Wave targetting itself.
4. (Optional) Without passing priority, activate Parallax Wave targetting any number of creatures and enchantments that you want to remove from the game forever.
5. Resolve the stack: Things that you want to flicker from step #2 leave play, then Parallax Wave leaves play, then Parallax Wave and the things that it removed come back (Parallax Wave gets new fading counters by the way), then the things from step #4 leave play forever.
6. Repeat.

Power-level errata #1: Parallax Wave's ability only removes things if Parallax Wave is in play when the ability resolves.

Power-level errata #2: Parallax Wave doesn't return itself to play if it was removed via its own ability.

Parallax Tide also has errata #1, but it doesn't have errata #2, so it's still possible to abuse it. However, since it still has errata #1, it's impossible to do the trick in step #4 above. That is, you can't remove things permanently, but you can flicker things indefinitely.

[parallax]

Did the combo involve using Parallax Wave's "Exile target land" ability or did you use copy effects to splice in a different exile ability on the stack, like Safe Haven? I can't think of a way to make a permanent have both the Land type and Parallax Wave's "When Parallax Wave leaves play," ability.

Here's my logic:
1) The only way to gain a triggered ability is via copy effects.
2) All copy effects (except Copy Artifact) will copy types as well.
3) There's no way to directly turn a non-Land permanent into a Land outside of copy effects.
Therefore, you can only have the triggered ability and the Land type if there's already a permanent with those things on the battlefield.

[Maveric78f]

How would it be broken if Parallax Wave could remove itself from the game?

I think that the combo with stifle is far better.

[rufus]

I can't think of a way to make a permanent have both the Land type and Parallax Wave's "When Parallax Wave leaves play," ability.


As Locutus pointed out:
Life and Limb
Opalescence
Conspiracy/Mirror Entity/...
Parallax Tide

It is possible to loop without turning Parallax tide into a land:
Opalescence
Life and Limb
Parallax Tide
Changeling Berserker/Changeling Titan/Changeling Hero
Changeling Berserker/Changeling Titan/Changeling Hero

Champion the tide. Champion the champion, Tide comes back. Tide the champion...

[quicksilver]

How would it be broken if Parallax Wave could remove itself from the game?

I think that the combo with stifle is far better.

Combine it with a creature with a comes into play ability to get that ability infinite time, such as silvergill adept and you can draw as many cards as you want.

Or just do it during combat to knock all your opponents creatures out of combat (i.e. creatures can never attack you).

Or just put all it's activation on the stack then remove the wave and then you get the wave back and your opponents creatures are gone permanently.

Or if one of your creatures might die for some reason, just wave it out then wave the wave out and you get your creature back.

Or just use it to untap your creatures.

Oh and don't forget the wave never ever goes away and stays around permanently since you can replenish it's fading counters at will and can only be killed by something with split second.

Seriously, wave being able to remove itself does some absolutely massively broken things that make stifle plus wave look like a joke.

[Maveric78f]

Or just put all it's activation on the stack then remove the wave and then you get the wave back and your opponents creatures are gone permanently.


Remove a fade counter from Parallax Wave: Exile target creature if Parallax Wave is on the battlefield.


Oh and don't forget the wave never ever goes away and stays around permanently since you can replenish it's fading counters at will and can only be killed by something with split second.
Just target Opalescence ;-)

Apart from that, thanks for the explanation. I don't know why but I could not figure it out by myself. And actually, it can remove itself but not use it to remove permanently other creatures, nor to replenish itself.

[quicksilver]

Ok I forgot that clause so you cannot permenantly remove your opponent's creatures.

However you can remove the wave and it will imediatly come back with full counters.

If you have two opalescences out you can protect them from removal via the wave.

[parallax]

Isn't it kind of silly to have errata on a card that only has an effect when Opalescence is in play?

[rufus]

Isn't it kind of silly to have errata on a card that only has an effect when Opalescence is in play?

Honestly, at this point, they might as well just remove all of those errata and make the cards work as printed, and then ban any that turn out to be OP. It's basically what they did with Dreadnought and Flash. The CC is high enough that it shouldn't matter for most situations.

And, really, the opalescence-only thing means one more card - like Clone or Copy Enchantment - to make the loop happen.

[cdr]

Replenish was actually a major deck at the time - iirc, that had a lot to do with it.