Low-Fantasy Set

[HdH_Cthulhu]

I just want to say that i wish wizards would print a low fantasy set. Looking at the the ZEN lands, this will clearly not be what i wish for...

Its not so that i dont like this flying island things and all this super fancy ultra absolute non realistc stuff, but i think time is right for a break.

http://www.buymorecards.net/shop/images/setfolders/PC/aethermembrane.jpg

We all know there are tons of cards like this with shiny flashes, magical erruptions, Astral manifestation and so on.

Old style:

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/cards/1614.jpg

No magic at all, just a wall.

Yes its not easy to desinge a set based on the the Middle Ages cuz the old sets have done that already pretty well, but it is far away from impossible.

Maybe all the kiddies just by more cards and they like this overdose of magic, but... how far will wizards go?

[Ectoplasm]

You start out the thread with a good comparison but waste all the potential by calling poeple who like flashy cards kiddies, way to go sport.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Its not so that i dont like this flying island things and all this super fancy ultra absolute non realistc stuff, but i think time is right for a break.

[dahcmai]

I don't mind a few things, but for the most part I kind of agree. Mirrodin kind of turned me off because of that. It's lucky the set wasn't a bad one or I might have taken a breather from Magic.

Stuff like this needs to go.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=23087&type=card


Mechwarrior? Cmon.... Good card, horrid art.


http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=49429&type=card


Robot Frogs? Ugh.... Yeah, yeah, the whole plane was supposed to be like that, but still.


http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=174994&type=card

This bothers me also. Creatures with names made up just for the sake of not having a better one to use? Thoctars are ok and all, but I'd rather see a return of creature types that we can use with older fun decks. Dwarves, Minotaurs, or even friggin Witches anyone? Not that this would have made a good 5/5 Dwarf. Kavu's, Thoctars, and other such could have had better spots taken up by things that pertain to older cards. At least Zendicar is using Vampires. It's like they try and forget they made those older cards every new set.

[pi4meterftw]

You start out the thread with a good comparison but waste all the potential by calling poeple who like flashy cards kiddies, way to go sport.

He actually says that all kiddies like magic stuff, not that all people who like magic stuff are kiddies. The former is close to true and not insulting, whereas the latter is not true (or even close) and insulting. He obviously meant the former.

[Ectoplasm]

It's like they try and forget they made those older cards every new set.

I have to agree on this. I don't want my sets to be filled with Nantukos, Viashinos, Thoctars, Rhoxes etc. I mean, it's fine to have a few 'made-up' (and I know all fantasy is made up, hence the name fantasy) things like hellkites or kavus but the amount of terminology wotc seems to make up just for the sake of being original is something that's been annoying me forever.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Another example is Path and Stp.

http://www.diver.pt/loja/images/Singles/Conflux/PathtoExile.jpgvs http://mi.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/swords_to_plowshares.jpg

They could just make a path into the desert where a knight walks alone...

And again I like the art of Path, just saying it would be great to see more "not sooo magic" cards

[JeroenC]

Yeah, I see your point. And I raise you one Wizard policy, which tries to amplify the flavor as much as possible. M10 was an example of this and was insanely popular, so I don't expect them to quit flavorful cards any time soon. If you want less flavor, you probably need another game.

[Nihil Credo]

Another example is Path and Stp.

They could just make a path into the desert where a knight walks alone...The problem is that, when you Path to Exile a guy, you're casting a spell. The game terms *themselves* say that you're not a king issuing a royal order to ban Mr. Target from your country - you're a super-wizard whisking him away. It's even more explicit with sorceries or enchantments, and the recent return of "casting" suggest that Wizards believes this is a good style to adopt (probably on the basis of some market research).

Note that the above has little to do with whether creatures aren't realistic enough (I personally disagree) or whether Creative uses a bit too much salvia divinorum when making new creature names (I personally agree, although the nadir in that regard was Onslaught and things have since much improved).

[Tacosnape]

I think that a more classical fantasy style adds enjoyment to the game. A Wall of Stone, for example, could come up in any fantasy related thing. Walls imply deterrents to attacks, which imply sieges or means to evade or subvert the barricade.

An Aether Membrane, however, is just odd. It's like an Offalsnout. I can't get into the flavor of things when Wizards does bad acid and invents bizarre things to which I have no basis for relation.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

The problem is that, when you Path to Exile a guy, you're casting a spell. The game terms *themselves* say that you're not a king issuing a royal order to ban Mr. Target from your country - you're a super-wizard whisking him away. It's even more explicit with sorceries or enchantments, and the recent return of "casting" suggest that Wizards believes this is a good style to adopt (probably on the basis of some market research).


Hmmm i think you use a bit white mana to cast some peace spell so the enemy lays down his sword / bring it to the blacksmith.
Or with path the creature of your opponent becomes sick of war and stuff and decides to life a lonly life in the exile.

But you are right, this is more jedi power (non visible magic)than ultra wizzard power.



An Aether Membrane, however, is just odd. It's like an Offalsnout. I can't get into the flavor of things when Wizards does bad acid and invents bizarre things to which I have no basis for relation.
Yeah, and why not just fly or walk around it?

Edit: Also i want more true evil cards for black. Like Terror, Uncle Istvan or Pestilence! Ad Nauesum was a step in the right direction :)

Phantasmagorian yes looks evil but it is to abstract to scare anyone... (Ok if i would meet one in rl i would be scared but you get the point^^)

[from Cairo]

I don't really care that much about the art. I do like some of the medieval stuff rather than the sometimes sci-fi looking stuff, but it doesn't phase me much.

I do agree strongly that it would be nice to see more recurring creature types rather than new similar creature types each block. It's things like this that really kill it for certain colors having Tribes, IE Red continually gets Goblins, and black gets mixes of Horrors, Skeletons, Undead, Zombies, etc, w/e; Or White getting Warriors, Soldiers, Rebels, Kithkin, etc, where Green continually gets Elves. I mean some of them recur like Soldiers is starting to get enough of a base to develop into a competitive Tribe maybe sometime in the future. But like others are saying it would be nice to see less new creature types and more recurring creature types, even if it's not terribly competitive ones, like Kavu or Hellkites.

[chokin]

We're playing a game called Magic...

[MMogg]

I have to agree with the OP: Magic was just as flavourful back in the day, and perhaps even more so. Which is more flavourful, Arabian Nights with cards like Ali Baba, Desert, Flying Carpet, Camel, etc. or nearly any recent set with Kavus and Thoctars? Mommy, wtf's a Kavu?

I mean, WotC owns the Dungeons & Dragons franchise! They could easily choose something more common to the traditional fantasy genre like Bugbears or more emphasis on Dwarves. Cull the monsters from the Compendium or something before creating mech warriors.

Why don't they planeshift to our Earth? They can make flavourful cards like "Cadillac Seville", "P.I.M.P.", "Pimp Cane" etc. :wink:

[dahcmai]

I would just like them to continue the older stories that had so much flavor.

Who can argue that Homelands sucked as a set, but had some of the best cards ever for flavor? Baron Sengir, Irini Sengir, Autumn Willow, and others. Fallen Empires sucked also (for the most part), but had excellent themes in the form of the elven things, Thrulls, and Goblins. Even the Dark had a great selection of scary things complimenting a central theme.

We seem to have lost that in favor of "let's see how far out there we can get". Alara is at least a partial return with Nicol Bolas being a central figure. Zendicar I hear (according to the books) at least seems to have Baron Sengir returning. I really hope that is true, I only heard that from some people who read those, not personal knowledge. Can someone chime in on that? I'd really like to know.

[Ectoplasm]

Can someone Apocalypse Chime in on that? I'd really like to know.

So much wasted potential :(

[Nightmare]

We're playing a game called Magic...
This.

Come on, people.

[Ectoplasm]

This.

Come on, people.

Don't you agree the older cards were cooler, flavourwise? They were the ones that made the game feel magical in the first place, we don't need any aether membranes for that.
I agree, substance over style, and an aether membrane is infinitely more interesting gameplay-wise since it actually does stuff beyond having a fat ass and as long as the game remains fun to play, I don't care if they print robot-zombies from outer space, but there's something to be said about the loss of flavour and immersion.

I loved ripping open a booster of 4th edition and seeing cool shit like Leviathan or previously mentioned Uncle Istvan. Maybe it's because I'm 10 years older now but the game seems to have lost some of its feeling, at least to me and I'm glad M10 brought some of that back :)

[Nightmare]

Don't you agree the older cards were cooler, flavourwise? They were the ones that made the game feel magical in the first place, we don't need any aether membranes for that.
I agree, substance over style, and an aether membrane is infinitely more interesting gameplay-wise since it actually does stuff beyond having a fat ass and as long as the game remains fun to play, I don't care if they print robot-zombies from outer space, but there's something to be said about the loss of flavour and immersion.

I loved ripping open a booster of 4th edition and seeing cool shit like Leviathan or previously mentioned Uncle Istvan. Maybe it's because I'm 10 years older now but the game seems to have lost some of its feeling, at least to me and I'm glad M10 brought some of that back :)

Your nostalgia is getting the better of you.

[eq.firemind]

Agree with threadstarter.

No, I don't mind some craZZy shit, but hey, there was Mirrodin, then Kamigawa, then Ravnica, then Time Spiral, then Lorwyn-Shadowmoor, then Alara, now it will be Zendikar...
All are different, all have their own style, but...
All are equaly uber-crazy-fantastic and that became booooring...

IMHO some fantasy classic in M:tG will be so refreshing!

[paK0]

While i love the blocks being different i wouldnt mind seeing a more old fashioned block without a fancy new mechanic.

[Ectoplasm]

Your nostalgia is getting the better of you.

Not just of me, you might have noticed how well Time Spiral sold, being the crappy set it is. What's wrong with a bit of nostalgia?

[Nightmare]

Not just of me, you might have noticed how well Time Spiral sold, being the crappy set it is. What's wrong with a bit of nostalgia?
Nothing, when kept within reason. Regardless, that's not even what I said.

You remember the early sets differently than they actually were. That's because of nostalgia. There was just as much fantasy involved in those sets as there was in Mirrodin. Go look at the Alpha set list, and you'll notice plenty of fantastic themes and cards.

[Bryant Cook]

I wouldn't mind a more traditional themed block. All of this weird shit to me is starting to be overdone.

[Ectoplasm]

Nothing, when kept within reason. Regardless, that's not even what I said.

You remember the early sets differently than they actually were. That's because of nostalgia. There was just as much fantasy involved in those sets as there was in Mirrodin. Go look at the Alpha set list, and you'll notice plenty of fantastic themes and cards.

I disagree with that. The older sets mostly took well-known fantasy conventions and gave their own spin on those, vampires became bigger when they killed stuff, angels flew and were good at defense, dragons breathe fire. There's a difference between 'making up' characters like Baron Sengir or a Rag Man, and filling 4 blocks with the love-life of Gerrard and Karn between the Krosans, Kavus and Nantukos.
And yes, I'm aware that the new sets still have vampires that become bigger when they kill shit and still have angels with vigilance but I don't like having 20 new races every block, just for the sake of being original and yes, I am convinced that sets like Alpha, Arabian Nights and The Dark were alot stronger, thematically, than Alara or Lorwyn/Shadowmoor (even though I think Shadowmoor/Eventide was pretty good).

I don't know man. I like it when my cards look cool, I still love the game and I hope that they return to more generic fantasy that WotC made with M10 will continue in the next couple of blocks.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

While some of it is a little too mumbo-jumbo for my taste, one thing I certainly don't have a problem with is the humanoid animal races. While perhaps not found in a generic swords and sorcery world, I enjoy the presence of Rhoxes and Nantuko. Especially when they make for good characters. While he never made it directly onto a card, the Rhox character from the Alara novel was interesting; a deliberate but noble thinker and a loyal companion...perfect characterization of a rhino IMHO. While the Alara block may have been my least favorite in a while, I definitely enjoyed a lot of the flavor. Here's to hoping they keep up the awesome in Zendikar!

[MMogg]

While some of it is a little too mumbo-jumbo for my taste, one thing I certainly don't have a problem with is the humanoid animal races. While perhaps not found in a generic swords and sorcery world, I enjoy the presence of Rhoxes and Nantuko. Especially when they make for good characters. While he never made it directly onto a card, the Rhox character from the Alara novel was interesting; a deliberate but noble thinker and a loyal companion...perfect characterization of a rhino IMHO. While the Alara block may have been my least favorite in a while, I definitely enjoyed a lot of the flavor. Here's to hoping they keep up the awesome in Zendikar!

OMG, I knew they existed, but never met one: you actually read the novels? :eek: Kidding aside, I wonder if reading the novels would help appreciate each block's themes and cards. :confused:

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

OMG, I knew they existed, but never met one: you actually read the novels? :eek: Kidding aside, I wonder if reading the novels would help appreciate each block's themes and cards. :confused:

In my experience, that varies from block to block. The Alara novel was not my favorite, and had a lot of unnecessary elements, but it did explain what was going on with the conflux, what Nicol Bolas' part in all of it was, and gave some personality to the various planeswalkers.

I liked the Lorwyn/Shadowmoor books a lot better...they weren't always the best written works, but they were loaded with flavor and references to cards (or the cards were references to the books). It also makes sense of why the whole Lorwyn/Shadowmoor situation existed and how it's related to the neowalkers.

Going further back, I loved Time Spiral, Ravnica was great for explaining the various guilds, Kamigawa books were a hundred times better than the block itself etc etc...

The best book by far though, has to be The Brother's War. Pick that one up just for the pure literary aspect. Its a damn good read.

[paK0]

Might be a little off topic, but where can you order the older books?
I can't find any older than the Odysee Block....

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

Amazon/Ebay/Your local gaming shop perhaps. Certainly the first two...if you don't mind used books, a lot of the older ones can be found on Amazon for literally a penny.

[Finn]

I bet a lot of the reason Wizards has been printing crazy stuff like the ones in this discussion is largely because more traditional Wall of Stone and Terror cards have already been printed. Once you have mined the known fantasy genre, it's done. There just isn't that much.

I totally agree that the flavor of stuff that I have a background understanding of is more satisfying. I just don't know how many Djinn and Dragons and Giants and Orcs they can print. There are already so many. Perhaps a throwback block would be cool. And then back to inventing monsters again.

[MMogg]

I bet a lot of the reason Wizards has been printing crazy stuff like the ones in this discussion is largely because more traditional Wall of Stone and Terror cards have already been printed. Once you have mined the known fantasy genre, it's done. There just isn't that much.

They've never slowed down printing Elves or Goblins. :eyebrow: It seems to me you have to be just as creative working within given parameters than anything goes flying membranes and giant mech warriors. :laugh:

[HdH_Cthulhu]

I think there is enogh desing space left for just one block. There are Cyclops, Dwarfs, Orcs, Halflings, some mythologic stuff, voodoo things, and so on...
It wouldnt be the most original block ever and after that block it could go back again to uber Fantasy but i would like it : /