Impact of Eight Wrath Effects on Legacy

[Fossil4182]

According to the new Zen spoilers, we will soon have access to 8 Wrath of God effects in Legacy.

Day of Judgement
Cost: 2WW
Text: Destroy all creatures.

Although strictly worse in the sense that it allows regeneration, there are almost no creatures that see mainstream play in Legacy that regenerate making it a moot point. Thus, we now have access to four more functional Wrath of God effects.

So the question is: What, if any, impact will eight Wrath of God effects have on Legacy?

Some random thoughts that came to mind:

-We saw an attempt to reprint StP in Path to Exile which has seen minimal play in Legacy outside of the occasional StP #5. However, given that its a true functional reprint makes it a lot more interesting.
-This could end up being just Wrath #5 or it could dawn some newer control archetypes that can make use of five or more Wrath effects.

[Nightmare]

None. No decks run 4 Wraths now. None will run more than that.

Also, the term is moot. It's a "moot" point.

[Nessaja]

I don't know any deck that plays 4 WoG, it seems unlikely that 4 isn't viable but 8 is.

I'd say that this will likely be WoG 3-4 in the decks that played 4 WoGs, just to avoid some Cabal Therapy shenenigans.

[DrJones]

I remember a standard deck that played 12 jokulhaups and used lands that gave two mana when sacrified. I think that one would have more success in legacy than a deck with 12 wraths. (Damnation included)

[ansset]

Moot point because the entire reason that Wrath isn't played as a 4x is because, shockingly, it's too expensive. Moat and Humility are stronger cards in many situations, and tapping out in your mainphase can be damaging against many of the decks that many Wraths would, ostensibly, be good against (Aether Vial aggro decks come to mind).

[GreenOne]

It could be played in a midrange deck that is packing regeneration effects. Something with Loxodon Hierarcs, Troll Ascetics and Dauntless Escort.

Too bad a deck like this would suck horribly.

[Elfrago]

None. No decks run 4 Wraths now. None will run more than that.

Also, the term is moot. It's a "moot" point.

[AngryTroll]

None. No decks run 4 Wraths now. None will run more than that.

Also, Damnation is available, if hard on the manabase. Decks can already run 4 Wrath and some combination of Moat and Humility if they want more 4cc creature sweepers, but none run four Wraths as it is.

[Fossil4182]

@ ansset

Why are Moat and Humility stronger options? They both still require you to tap out in your main phase like WoG does. Additionally, they have the added problem of being able to be removed by aggro decks. Decks like Zoo, Goblins and Merfolk with bounce all have main deck answers to those two enchantments. EG: an end of turn Korsan Grip or Wipeway (some Zoo builds are also running Pridemage now) allows them to attack the following turn with a build up of creatures. Running several Wrath effects at least creates the deterrent effect of not attacking or over extending. Both enchantments are valuable stall cards, but the decks they are included to be used against (aggro) have maindeck answers to them making them somewhat less valuable imho.

[conboy31]

I think the new wrath might actually be better in legacy (in the future). The card itself appears worse. However, what creatures does your opp run that could regenerate? Troll and maybe the boa's?

A deck that itself uses a few regeneration creatures in conjunction with the new wrath would allow for a threat on the board post wipe. The problem as of now is that regen creatures might not be good enough on their own. Also, it would probably be 5 mana to wipe and regen. So, as of now the original wrath is probably better because its owner does not use regen creatures, but in the future it might allow for a few more options.

[Moczoc]

The new Wrath could be good with creatures that regenerate without mana-investment like Dauntless Escort and Knight of Holy Nimbus

[HdH_Cthulhu]

I think it will get played. Maybe just against Mmage and therapy...

[Pastorofmuppets]

technically 12 wraths... Damnation?

[Tacosnape]

I doubt that outside of regeneration tricksyness this will have much impact.

I do wonder if 8 white wraths has potential for impact with cards that force opponents to overextend. Mishra's Factory used to do this pretty well, but a lot of things can swing through a 3/3 blocker nowadays.

Perhaps when they print something like:

Blessings of Brotherhood
:2::w:
Enchantment
Creatures can't attack alone.

Or when someone digs up a practical use to force opponents to overextend continuously and not make Wrath a bad 1-for-1.

[Ectoplasm]

I do wonder if 8 white wraths has potential for impact with cards that force opponents to overextend. Mishra's Factory used to do this pretty well, but a lot of things can swing through a 3/3 blocker nowadays.

Didn't you play Elspeth in your 4c landstill thingamajig because that's exactly what she does :laugh:

[Malchar]

@ ansset

Why are Moat and Humility stronger options? They both still require you to tap out in your main phase like WoG does. Additionally, they have the added problem of being able to be removed by aggro decks. Decks like Zoo, Goblins and Merfolk with bounce all have main deck answers to those two enchantments. EG: an end of turn Korsan Grip or Wipeway (some Zoo builds are also running Pridemage now) allows them to attack the following turn with a build up of creatures. Running several Wrath effects at least creates the deterrent effect of not attacking or over extending. Both enchantments are valuable stall cards, but the decks they are included to be used against (aggro) have maindeck answers to them making them somewhat less valuable imho.

You make valid points. One problem with Wrath of God is that smart aggro players will never overextend anyway. When Moat/Humility shows up, even if it is removed, the field usually is not very much over extended, so the alpha strike is rather diminished to begin with. Also, even if the opponent removed the white enchantment after only one turn of missed attacks, you have probably saved yourself from the same amount of damage as if you had used a Wrath of God. Aggro decks will probably just plop down two or three more threats after the wrath. Realistically, you can buy more than a few turns with the enchantments, and they are quite powerful if unanswered.

[TheCramp]

Escort already works with wrath, as well as persist critters. this has not exactly taken he meta by storm. wrath (4) + Troll regen (2) = not very sexy.

[ghindo]

Does any deck play Wrath now? I really don't ever see Wrath being viable in Legacy.

[Citrus-God]

Does any deck play Wrath now? I really don't ever see Wrath being viable in Legacy.

Landstill.

[chokin]

Does any deck play Wrath now? I really don't ever see Wrath being viable in Legacy.

The Mighty Quinn and Rabid Wombat!

But more seriously, why isn't WoG played more? Creatures too fast I assume? Waiting 4 turns for any aggro deck to beat my face is kinda slow. And with a lot of the newer decks, they just play a bunch of other threats after the sweep.

[Otter]

The Mighty Quinn and Rabid Wombat!

But more seriously, why isn't WoG played more? Creatures too fast I assume? Waiting 4 turns for any aggro deck to beat my face is kinda slow. And with a lot of the newer decks, they just play a bunch of other threats after the sweep.

I wouldn't say that turn four is too slow against anything except maybe Naya Zoo, but it's usually more that four land is too much. It can be very difficult to get a Wrath online between Wasteland, Daze, Stifle, and assorted other assaults on your manabase.

The other problem is that Legacy's creatures are generally too scary to wait to x-for-1 them with a Wrath. It's easy to run a Goyf out there and force you to go 1-for-1 with it, then drop down another guy. With that said, it's possible to make good use of Wrath, but it's certainly nowhere near as powerful as it has been in other formats.

[Skeggi]

Also, the term is moot. It's a "moot" point.
No, it's like a cow's opinion, it doesn't matter: it's a moo point :wink:

Yeah, I've watched too much Friends...

Anyway, we already have 8 WoG effects if you count Damnation; so we'll get to 12 WoG effects...

[MMogg]

The Mighty Quinn and Rabid Wombat!

But more seriously, why isn't WoG played more? Creatures too fast I assume? Waiting 4 turns for any aggro deck to beat my face is kinda slow. And with a lot of the newer decks, they just play a bunch of other threats after the sweep.

Also, almost all decent aggro players will not play every creature in their hand at once (overextend), so if you finally Wrath, you will most likely have another 1-2 creatures to deal with immediately.

Also, board sweepers abound! Cards like Engineered Explosives are better in that they are flexible in taking out what you want (such as killing weenies and leaving your big shiznit if you're playing something like stompy) not to mention taking out more than just creatures. Sad but true, Wrath of God should be put in this thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14551).


Anyway, we already have 8 WoG effects if you count Damnation; so we'll get to 12 WoG effects...

Let's add in some Rout for later game board clearance... that makes 16 Wrath effects! This deck is kicking serious ass! :wink:

LOL Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Magnivore, attack.

[Gheizen64]

I doubt that outside of regeneration tricksyness this will have much impact.

I do wonder if 8 white wraths has potential for impact with cards that force opponents to overextend. Mishra's Factory used to do this pretty well, but a lot of things can swing through a 3/3 blocker nowadays.

Perhaps when they print something like:

Blessings of Brotherhood
:2::w:
Enchantment
Creatures can't attack alone.

Or when someone digs up a practical use to force opponents to overextend continuously and not make Wrath a bad 1-for-1.

Man that is one fantastic card. Anti-control, pro-weenie and rules setting. Flavor is also great and on the spot, fittingly perfectly with the card.

The PERFECT white card.

IT: the card will see no play in legacy, as WoG is often an overcosted removal for a single goyf and doesn't even stop Ichorid.

[DrJones]

That card looks more black to me. So much for the perfect white card. :tongue:

The only impact of having 8 wrath of god now, will be in the purses of the people that doesn't have any.

[Pastorofmuppets]

At the same time, it's not like 8 Crusades have affected the format, and those make your Weenies able to race Tarmogoyf.. Hell, Kithkin Tribal would have 8 Crusades AND Wizened Cenns AND 8 STPs at maximum...

[dahcmai]

Would be interesting to use it's regeneration pass over to throw things like River Boa and such through one and live. It's kind of nice, but still seems like another card that costs too much aside from being used in Landstill styles and in those cases killing a regenerator makes Wrath better.

I rarely see a need for more than 2 Wraths and even if you made some odd Elspeth Humility Wrath thing, I doubt you'd want Wrath's 5 and 6.

[DragoFireheart]

Would be interesting to use it's regeneration pass over to throw things like River Boa and such through one and live. It's kind of nice, but still seems like another card that costs too much aside from being used in Landstill styles and in those cases killing a regenerator makes Wrath better.

Playing bad cards so you can play other bad cards? Sounds like a bad plan. :frown:



I rarely see a need for more than 2 Wraths and even if you made some odd Elspeth Humility Wrath thing, I doubt you'd want Wrath's 5 and 6.

Which is why making more Wraths (unless they get cheaper) will have little effect on Legacy as we already have access to quite a few.

[dahcmai]

I should have made myself plainer. It makes sense in standard, but not legacy. My english isn't so hot so I figured you'd missed the premise.