Forgetting Damage

[AngryTroll]

I saw this happen tonight in a Standard tournament:

Player A casts Volcanic Fallout. Lots of stuff dies, then more stuff dies because dudes pumping other dudes die, etc. Several turns later, a tricky play lets player A swing for 12, with player B at 13. Player A realizes at this point that neither player took damage from the fallout. Player A says, "That leaves you at one...you didn't take damage from fallout, did you?" And player B responded "Neither did you." Player B had lethal unblockable damage on the board.

If A had called a judge at this point, what should have happened? What did happen is that Player A scooped and they went to the next game. I suspect that A should have won, because both players agree that damage was not done from Fallout, but I'm not sure if it was too late to fix the problem or something.

[yggdrasil]

Assuming that no one cheated and the damage was forgotten by accident, the judge would both give a warning (for Game Rule Violation to the player who played the Fallout, for Failure to Maintain Game State to the other) and the game would have left as it is.
The only two options we have in such situations are: leave the game as it is, or roll it back to the point where the error happens. The latter we do only if very little happened in between and the error is caught within a reasonable time frame (which is for the judge to determine). "Several turns later" is a no-brainer for option "leave it".

[cdr]

It depends. If both players genuinely forgot the Fallout damage it's what yggdrasil said; if they merely forgot to write it down, and A thought B was on 11, that's another matter.

I guess I'm not sure why you would make a tricky play and attack for 12 if you think your opponent is on 13.

[AngryTroll]

Because A was facing lethal, unblockable damage and knew he had lost, so he was trying to get in for as much as possible. It was only when he looked at the life totals, checked his hand, and checked his graveyard that he realized the error.

Thanks, I was curious to know what should have happened.

[Valtrix]

If both players agree that they forgot the damage, why is it not taken into account when they remember it? I guess I feel like damage is something that doesn't affect those few interim turns much, or is it just a general rule to not fix things for mistakes that might have had some impact on those turns?

[cdr]

If both players agree that they forgot the damage, why is it not taken into account when they remember it? I guess I feel like damage is something that doesn't affect those few interim turns much, or is it just a general rule to not fix things for mistakes that might have had some impact on those turns?

The philosophy is to not make partial fixes. You either back the game up to the point the error happened, or apply SBAs and leave the game as is. Once an incorrect gamestate has affected decisions - as it almost inevitably will if several turns have gone by - it would be a partial fix to "correct" it at that point, since you can't back the game up to the point it happened.

[Malchar]

I don't understand why the player who played the fallout would get a warning. Isn't it each person's responsibility to keep track of his or her own life total? To simplify the example, say I cast Lightning Bolt on my opponent and he doesn't write it down. Is it my fault as well for not keeping track of my opponent's life?

[cdr]

Actually, I didn't carefully read what yggdrasil wrote - both players should get Game Rule Violation warnings, for failing to correctly track their own life totals (Failure to Maintain warning not necessary, since the root cause is the same).

If your opponent somehow failed to notice the Lightning Bolt damage - and so did you - he would get the GRV warning and you would get the FTMGS warning. Both players are responsible for maintaining the gamestate - so yes, you are responsible for making sure your opponent's life total is correct.

I find that situation highly improbable, though.