[Article] Analyzing Legacy by Godryk

[Skeggi]

Hello all, some of you know about this, because you're helped the writer, but Godryk has written a very interesting article about the World Meta. You can find the article here: http://noticias.magicevolution.com/2009/09/04/analizando-legacy-metajuegos-mundiales/

The article is in Spanish, but you can easily copy+paste the URL into Google Translater (http://translate.google.com) (works better than Babelfish imo) and it turns into a readable article.

[Manhattan]

A general practice in Germany is not playing top 8 ranking in distributing prizes by Swiss and avoiding most of the necessary agreements.
Is it just Google or did he actually write that?


Moreover, the Germans are friends to alter any deck to include cards that the rest would not dare to raise and love to baptize their decks with bizarre names that make it difficult to study the top 8.
True, but is it only in Germany that we like killing our opponents with Shared Fate and name our decks "Ach! Hans, Run! It's the Morphling!"

[Nihil Credo]

We need to grab a hold of those Japanese. Don't we have some weeaboo on these boards who can have a chat with them?

Also, props to Godryk. That was a well-structured article.

[Nessaja]

Is it just Google or did he actually write that?
Well.. the grammar is google and what he said is actually true, top 8s aren't played out and they just distribute prizes.

[godryk]

Is it just Google or did he actually write that?

Well, this is google. Using my poor english, I would translate it:


A general practice in Germany is not to play out top 8, distributing prizes according to swiss ranking and avoiding more draws than needed.

I don't know how accurate is this. I mean, it's obvioasly a generalization, but I was told this by german nerd sourcers.


We need to grab a hold of those Japanese. Don't we have some weeaboo on these boards who can have a chat with them?

Yeah, I missed that when writing this, if spaniards can learn english, why japaneses wouldn't?

[Nessaja]

Yeah, I missed that when writing this, if spaniards can learn english, why japaneses wouldn't?
Many european languages have inherited/acquired much of their vocabulary from Latin, the difference in language is much smaller.

Finally finished readint the article it's interesting though a bit hard to actually pick the conclusions out of it like, really the main differences between the regions in terms of metagame. I would've ended it with either a summary or a conclusion if I were you.

But nice read, and interesting as I said. I've been wondering about this myself.

[Media314r8]

Yeah, I missed that when writing this, if Spaniards can learn English, why Japaneses wouldn't?

English and Spanish (and most European languages at that) are both 'romance' languages derived from Greek, while Japanese has no western roots, thus our characters, lingual sounds, and grammar are all new things for them to learn, a harder transition than from one Greek-based language to another, as most share 90% of the characters in the alphabet, and have only slight differences in grimmer and conjugation.

[DrJones]

I do understand Japanese, but why would anyone be interested in reading the Japanese legacy meta? Are you going to play a tournament in Japan or what?

[leander?]

Well, it's just very intresting to know the differences of metagames all over the world and maybe even explain those.

[electrolyze]

And Japanese decklists are always weird and interesting. You should look at the ancient memory convention t8's on deckcheck. Almost only weird builds from know archetypes of totally unknown archetypes.

[godryk]

Finally finished readint the article it's interesting though a bit hard to actually pick the conclusions out of it like, really the main differences between the regions in terms of metagame. I would've ended it with either a summary or a conclusion if I were you.

I have to agree, but, hell, I had to meet a deadline and facing all this data was exhausting. But yeah, I'd have ended it with some comparative conclussion.

@japanese language: I was just joking about spaniard's huge lack of interest in studying foreign languages (aka english). I obviously understand english has to be much more difficult to japanese people to learn.

[Nessaja]

English and Spanish (and most European languages at that) are both 'romance' languages derived from Greek,
Ehh.. no? Latin.

[majikal]

English and Spanish (and most European languages at that) are both 'romance' languages derived from Greek
1.) English is for the most part a Germanic language.
2.) "Romance" languages are derived from Latin, not Greek.

[Dubster]

I don't know how accurate is this. I mean, it's obvioasly a generalization, but I was told this by german nerd sourcers.

It's not even really a generalization, only legacy tournaments in germany playing out the top 8 that i can remember where the legacy championships at nationals.

[JeroenC]

1.) English is for the most part a Germanic language.
2.) "Romance" languages are derived from Latin, not Greek.

This. English is derived from Germanic dialects. However, throughout the Middle Ages, there has been a huge influence of Latin and French (the church and French lords respectively).

[Eldariel]

European languages have intermingled so much that the vocabulary contains a large number of Latin-inspired words regardless of whether it's a Germanic, a Slavic or a Romance (or hell, a Finno-Ugric) language, though obviously the less the further east we go.

But Spanish, French, Portuguese, German, English, Flemish, etc. all share a very relevant number of words due to history. And I don't even know why we're talking about this.

[DrJones]

That's good, because I was going to say exactly the same thing that the five posters above, but I knew that by waiting some other nice people would do the work for me.

[Zach Tartell]

EVERYBODY SHUT THE HELL UP AND TALK ABOUT THE ARTICLE!

I personally noticed a conspicuous absence of Dave Gearhart.

[Skeggi]

But Spanish, French, Portuguese, German, English, Flemish, etc.
Flemish? ...

And yeah, no David Gearheart. I guess he's been kicked out of the world meta :wink:... I suggest we discuss more David Gearheart here. Is it true that he made WotC print enemy fetches in Zendikar?

[flrn]

Flemish?

it refers to belgian people, who speak dutch.

[Skeggi]

it refers to belgian people, who speak dutch.
I know. I am Dutch. That's why I know Flemish isn't a language. Which is something who makes statments about languages should know.

[Atwa]

it refers to belgian people, who speak dutch.

We understood that much. It's still called Dutch though, they just don't speak it correct :)

[Eldariel]

Flemish results in a more interesting response. Besides, it's more fun to say "Flemish" than "Dutch" anyways.

[flrn]

I know. I am Dutch. That's why I know Flemish isn't a language. Which is something who makes statments about languages should know.

I dont think its wrong to refer to dialects when talking about languages.

[Skeggi]

I dont think its wrong to refer to dialects when talking about languages.
Like, Mexican? And Brazillian? And American? It's still Spanish, Portugese and English to me. I speak English, so I understand both Americans and Englishmen (well, at least I understand the most words they use, and I understand Aussie's if they speak slowly :wink:). But yes, 'Flemish' is more fun to say :wink:

Anyway, I think the article gives good insight on different meta's, and why one deck is successful in one meta and not so successful in the other. What boggles my mind most is why (by far) the most successful Zoo variant in the Dutch meta is Domain Zoo, while in all other meta's it's Naya Zoo. Is it perhaps because we have strong players here who favor Domain Zoo and they get followed by other players? Is it because in other meta's no-one ever really tried Domain Zoo? Or is it because Domain Zoo simply gets slaughtered in other meta's? But if the latter is the case, I wonder why? Are in those meta's the decks more prevalent that can hate on Domain Zoo? Or are those decks piloted by more compitent players?

[godryk]

"Flemish" is way cooler, it reminds me of history books at school studying spanish old imperialist wars when evil spanish bearded soldiers with funny helmets sack cities and stuff.

And hell, the spanish word for "flemish" is the same one for "flamingo" and for a famous musical genre: "flamenco".

[spirit of the wretch]

The Source - Your source for advanced linguistics...

[Citrus-God]

The Source - Your source for advanced linguistics...

The Source - Your source for trivial off-topic conversations

[Nihil Credo]

Like, Mexican? And Brazillian? And American? It's still Spanish, Portugese and English to me. I speak English, so I understand both Americans and Englishmen (well, at least I understand the most words they use, and I understand Aussie's if they speak slowly :wink:). But yes, 'Flemish' is more fun to say :wink:Well, I've known several Prussians Germans who just plain refuse to acknowledge that what they schpeak in Austria and Bavaria is actually German.


Anyway, I think the article gives good insight on different meta's, and why one deck is successful in one meta and not so successful in the other. What boggles my mind most is why (by far) the most successful Zoo variant in the Dutch meta is Domain Zoo, while in all other meta's it's Naya Zoo. Is it perhaps because we have strong players here who favor Domain Zoo and they get followed by other players? Is it because in other meta's no-one ever really tried Domain Zoo? Or is it because Domain Zoo simply gets slaughtered in other meta's? But if the latter is the case, I wonder why? Are in those meta's the decks more prevalent that can hate on Domain Zoo? Or are those decks piloted by more compitent players?Here's an attempt: if I look at the Dutch meta list:


11% Merfolk
10% Domain Zoo
8% Goblins
8% Tempo Thresh
7% ANT
7% The Rock
7% Dreadstill
6% Eva Green
6% CounterTop
5% Naya Zoo/Goyf Sligh
4% Landstill (UW/b)
3% Dragon Stompy
3% Aggro Loam
2% Ichorid
2% MUC
2% Death & Taxes
2% Survival Elves
1% TES
1% Faerie Stompy
1% Team America
1% Aggro ElvesI need to get until The Rock (#6) to find a deck playing Swords to Plowshares (and maybe some Rock lists are pure B/G). That could very well be sufficient incentive to pack Gaea's Might.

[Valdez]

Well, you forgot that Africaans is a West-Germanic too...

Can anyone translate this in English..?
I think it has a lot of potential for a discussion about metagame characteristics.

Btw. "Bavarian" and "Austrian" are Dialects, German is a "Standard language".

[Skeggi]

Well, you forgot that Africaans is a West-Germanic too...
Hmm... I always thought it derived from Dutch.


I need to get until The Rock (#6) to find a deck playing Swords to Plowshares (and maybe some Rock lists are pure B/G). That could very well be sufficient incentive to pack Gaea's Might.

That list is based on my experience: the match-ups I've encountered. On the Dutch Legacy forum, a mod placed a list based on data from top 8's:



Merfolk 13,46153846
the Rock 9,615384615
domain zoo 8,173076923
Uwx landstill 7,211538462
goblins 6,730769231
ANT 5,288461538
Countertop 5,288461538
dreadstill 4,807692308
ichorid 4,807692308
eva green 4,326923077
TempoThreshold 3,846153846
agro loam 3,365384615
goyf sligh 2,884615385
MUC 2,403846154
Faeries 1,923076923
death and taxes 1,923076923
43 land 1,442307692
affinity 1,442307692
UW Controll 0,961538462
Elves (including Surv) 0,961538462
dragon stompy 0,961538462

Others 8,173076923


The Rock is actually the second most common deck in our meta and right after Zoo comes Landstill. That said, I only saw a Domain Zoo with Gaea's Might reach top 8 once, but that was almost a year ago, in a very small tournament (24-ish players). 'Modern' Domain Zoo doesn't run Gaea's Might (nor Trygon Pregator, so there are no more blue spells. The only reason it runs a Volcanic Island is because of Tribal Flames).

[Manhattan]

And yeah, no David Gearheart. I guess he's been kicked out of the world meta :wink:... I suggest we discuss more David Gearheart here. Is it true that he made WotC print enemy fetches in Zendikar?
He made them print Warren Instigator. So that Solidarity would finally be obsolete in future Legacy. (aswell as Mindbreak Trap, just to be sure)

[Skeggi]

The Source - Your source for advanced linguistics...

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5868/failownedtranslatingfai.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/i/failownedtranslatingfai.jpg/)

[Elf_Ascetic]

I think Naya Zoo's Price of Progress doesn't benefit enough from the current Dutch meta. Tribal Flames offers a more solid choice in a Merfolk / Rocklike field.

And of course, the top decks do not play so much StP's for confidant...

So the combined field of not so much StP's and a lot of basics leads to a bigger succes of Domain Zoo.

[Valdez]

Hmm... I always thought it derived from Dutch.
Dutch is a West-Germanic language, like English, Yiddish and German.


Anyway, I think the article gives good insight on different meta's, and why one deck is successful in one meta and not so successful in the other. What boggles my mind most is why (by far) the most successful Zoo variant in the Dutch meta is Domain Zoo, while in all other meta's it's Naya Zoo. Is it perhaps because we have strong players here who favor Domain Zoo and they get followed by other players? Is it because in other meta's no-one ever really tried Domain Zoo? Or is it because Domain Zoo simply gets slaughtered in other meta's? But if the latter is the case, I wonder why? Are in those meta's the decks more prevalent that can hate on Domain Zoo? Or are those decks piloted by more compitent players?
The old-fashion Domain Zoo, with Flames, Might and so on was quite popular in Iserlohn for a short period, after Julan Brüggemann won the tourney with this deck.
But then Aggro-Loam grew to enormous Popularity, followed by Dreadstill, wich are quite bad mus for the deck and .

In the last ~10 month then RGW Goyf-Sligh established a strong position in the meta by making some t8 in Dülmen and as we all know, Magic is all about that Oscar Wilde quote: "Talent copies - Genius steals".

RGW Sligh is simply cheaper (Duals vs. Mountains) and it has a more stable manabase.

[Finn]

Dear linguistic discussion members,

This is a fascinating topic. (Actually, to me it really is.) But please leave it alone in this thread. You are in serious danger of making me agree with Zach Tartell about something. And we can't have that.

Yours always
-Finn

[Koby]

Godryk: You hit the nail on the head in regards to West Coast legacy. Our Legacy metagame is drier than the Sahara.

*grumblegurmble* Suburban sprawl *grumble* Los Angeles*grumblegrumble*