[ZEN] Enemy Fetchlands!!!!!!

[Kilz88]

So...This is confirmed. What does this mean for us?

[GGoober]

it means another $300 to spend on Legacy. These are going to be more expensive than the Onslaught since T2 players need them bad, and we've learned thee lesson from Onslaught that fetches aren't worht 5-10 bucks


Where's the confirmed source?

[Volt]

So...This is confirmed. What does this mean for us?

It means a few existing deck archetypes get to improve their manabases. Other than that, not a whole lot.

[Esper3k]

MTGSalvation has the RW one up on their spoiler with a scan.

We'll see if it's real or not though.

[hyc8028]

It is a bit of a surprise that they print those when the original is rotating out of extended. For me, it really make no difference. I am fetching for blue dual anyway. Flooded Strand and Delta can do its job. However, I might probably pick up the U/G and U/R one once they settle in price. I predict they will be $15-$20 a pop for a long time.

[Bardo]

I'm not going to get excited about this until it's confirmed.

About the price of fetches going down--they don't; though there may be an initial price spike when they enter circulation and demand is nutty.

[ghindo]

So...This is confirmed. What does this mean for us?I'm not sure if a blurry picture on Salvation and no other information means that it's confirmed, but I don't think it will be all that significant. Slightly better manabases for some decks and not much else.

[Esper3k]

Yeah, I'd guess they'll settle in the 12-17ish range like the Onslaught ones did.

Not a huge difference for us - it'll just help streamline some manabases (help fetch your basics a little easier) is about it.

[Volt]

Arid Mesa is now in Salvation's spoiler list. I don't think this is a hoax...

[Koby]

I like the news, but hate the prospects.

WotC is continually confirming the theory that every 12 months, competitive players must drop $300 on a new mana base. This needs to change.

[PTbob]

I'm not going to get excited about this until it's confirmed.

Did you even read the page?

http://imgur.com/7B2r3.png

[gamegeek2]

Well, I'm buying blue ones. That's it - I almost always play blue, if not then affinity.

[MMogg]

I like the news, but hate the prospects.

WotC is continually confirming the theory that every 12 months, competitive players must drop $300 on a new mana base. This needs to change.

QFT!

I'm not so pleased with having to spend a shitload of money for more staples just to stay competitive.

[Bardo]

Did you even read the page?

http://imgur.com/7B2r3.png

I did and saw the pic. Still, I don't want to get excited until I'm 100% sure, because I don't want to be let down. It's not like the MTGS spoiler is a Wizards of the Coast product. It's usually right, but still.

Once I see the U/G land, I'll do a super-happy dance.


It means a few existing deck archetypes get to improve their manabases. Other than that, not a whole lot.

I completely agree with Chris here. I'm just thrilled Vorosh will be able to fetch off-color basics.

[gamegeek2]

Ill prolly stick with u/g as I probably won't need to fetch basic mountain

[Shugyosha]

Well I think this will make Blood Moon Effects and Wasteland locks worse and therefore increase the number of 4-5 color decks. I guess this will make the format more like "lets play every good card in this 4c list" than it is. Stifle effects (and Shadow of Doubt as I learned today :-) will become more important to screw manabases as Wastelands will be less likely to screw someone badly.

Kicker: Extended manabases will continue to be messy and expensive for some time. Or maybe they reprint Wasteland!?

[Artowis]

It's Evan Erwin that confirmed it along w/ a non-blurry pic. The chances of this being a hoax are basically nil.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94837&stc=1&d=1252210281

[Fossil4182]

Its also a giant blown up pic that posted on a brick wall if you look at the pic. I don't remember WotC spoiling cards by making giant posters of them....

[TeKo]

fu WotC!

good for Highlander.

bad for nonbasic hoser.

It will take some time until they are affordable, when every T2, Ext, Legacy and even T1 Decks play some of them (why should they only print a RW fetch).

Keep on printing money...

[JeroenC]

Dear Wizards. I really hate you right now. Thanks for making absolutely no distinction between enemy and ally colors. GOOD JOB.

Dear Source. I don't care about the money. I don't even have all my legacy staples yet, so I couldn't really care a lot less.

[MMogg]

Dear Wizards. I really hate you right now. Thanks for making absolutely no distinction between enemy and ally colors. GOOD JOB.


I think, in all fairness, that concept was out the window with Alpha. The original dual lands are all equal and show no distinction between the privileges of enemy or allied colours. Maybe the allied colour fetches will see a reprint.

[AngryTroll]

Ugh. I don't quite have the originals, and now these will be expensive.

I very much would have liked these to have had some sort of tension for being enemy colored. Say, pay two life or something. I guess I had better finish my colletion of blue fetches, then pick up five of the UG and UR ones for Legacy and Highlander.

So, I guess the real question is, when do I order my playset (+1) of the new ones? Right away, or let them settle some?

When do I pick up Flooded Strand #5 and Deltas #4 and 5? Now, or do they rotate soon or something?

[Nessaja]

they will rotate with the release of Zendikar

[Elfrago]

Dear Wizards. I really hate you right now. I don't want to spend another two hundred bucks on lands. I don't even have all my legacy staples yet.

Dear Source. I don't care about the flavor. Enemy colors could be even better than allied combinations and I could'nt care less.

Fixed.

[Blitzbold]

The Onylaught fetchlands will rotate out of Extended when Zendikar becomes legal this march. I guess they will drop a little bit, but not much as many players already sold them since the end of the last Extended season.

I really like the prospect of getting a complete cycle of enemy fetchlands. Helps Stadard and Extended a lot while the Eternal format will also profit a little bit. Maybe the new cycle of fetches will be distributed among the whole Zendikar block as they did with the Ravnica duals? On the other hand there only are 5 new fetches as opposed to 10 color combinations for duals. Good news, however.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Arid Mesa is now in Salvation's spoiler list. I don't think this is a hoax...

So were Golden Lotus and The Rack for M10

[cdr]

The cards were giant-size spoilers at PAX. Thousands of people saw them. Real.

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs226.snc1/7320_127251386540_598181540_3062325_4409009_n.jpg

[Pulp_Fiction]

All I play is combo and all I need is Delta, Mire, and Strand! However, I will certainly consider picking up the B/W fetches if they do follow through with this.

[Otter]

It's nice, but not exactly groundbreaking. A few decks will get slightly better manabases, like UG decks can have a basic Forest along with their basic Islands and an easy way to get it. That makes Moon effects and Wastes slightly worse, but at the end of the day it's not going to revolutionize anything. Manabases just using the original fetches are still going to be perfectly respectable and will hold up until you get around to buying the new ones.

With that said, I'm drooling.

[Fossil4182]

Anyone have any guesses to how much these are going to fetch for a playset? I'm guess $20 a piece for the Blue ones and $15 for the non-blue ones. I would guess inflation during the presales and early release would increase those prices by $5 each for the first month or so. The prices will also be very dependent on how large the set run is.

[lordofthepit]

Anyone have any guesses to how much these are going to fetch for a playset? I'm guess $20 a piece for the Blue ones and $15 for the non-blue ones. I would guess inflation during the presales and early release would increase those prices by $5 each for the first month or so. The prices will also be very dependent on how large the set run is.

I think you'd be able to get them cheaper. They should definitely be cheaper than the Onslaught ones because "rares" are found more frequently now (since the introduction of mythic rares).

[Arctic_Slicer]

I think you'd be able to get them cheaper. They should definitely be cheaper than the Onslaught ones because "rares" are found more frequently now (since the introduction of mythic rares).

The Onslaught ones wont be Standard/Extended legal so they are likely to be less valuable than the Zendikar ones in the short term. I expect that the U/G one will inevitably become the most valuable one just as Tropical Island is the most valuable of the enemy colored Dual Lands. It's a bit early to put a price on it but I'd expect the u/g one to be worth around $20 with the rest of them be lower depending on what color combinations prove to be the most popular in the standard format.

[Valdez]

Fixed.
Quoted for truth.

[MMogg]

It's a bit early to put a price on it but I'd expect the u/g one to be worth around $20 with the rest of them be lower depending on what color combinations prove to be the most popular in the standard format.

$80 for what amounts to about 17% of your mana base is insane for Standard. :rolleyes:

[Arctic_Slicer]

$80 for what amounts to about 17% of your mana base is insane for Standard. :rolleyes:

Did you play when Ravnica Block was legal? I hated Ravnica Block constructed for that very cause. Now most of those lands are worth less than half of what they were; the fetchlands will at least maintain some sort of value post rotation.

[Jak]

I'll be picking up the UG ones and maybe some for EDH. I'm kind of glad they did this and kind of sad that they did this. I'm happy that mana bases will become better because it just means annoying stuff like Wasteland, Moons, etc will have less of an effect. I also like it because it will most likely make people play more basics of their colors.

The thing I dislike is the challenge of making a mana base. This isn't a big thing at all but I always liked configuring mana bases like UGB.

I'm still really happy they did this and am excited to get rid of my Strands and Wooded Foothills!

Edit- What's the rare count for Zendikar? I read that it was like 54 or something, so 5 fetches out of 54 rares are pretty good odds. Wasn't Onslaught like 5 Fetches in 110 rares? I bet the the good ones go for $15 - $18 and the worse ones like $9 - $13.

[MMogg]

Did you play when Ravnica Block was legal? I hated Ravnica Block constructed for that very cause. Now most of those lands are worth less than half of what they were; the fetchlands will at least maintain some sort of value post rotation.

I only played a little Extended at that time and bought a lot of those "new duals". Mistake. How much longer are they Extended legal? :cry:

[Jak]

I only played a little Extended at that time and bought a lot of those "new duals". Mistake. How much longer are they Extended legal? :cry:

A while.

[tsabo_tavoc]

Edit- What's the rare count for Zendikar? I read that it was like 54 or something, so 5 fetches out of 54 rares are pretty good odds. Wasn't Onslaught like 5 Fetches in 110 rares? I bet the the good ones go for $15 - $18 and the worse ones like $9 - $13.

15 mythic rare, 53 rare. You shared the shining insight!

[citanul]

I'm dissapointed, very dissapointed.
I just got all my fetch a month ago and completed all my duals last week and now this. I'll have to start trading again!

It's also not needed for Legacy but it might be a good thing to attract Standard players into a local Legacy event. No they want to play this or that but notice that they need fetch and duals to be able to play those colours. Instead they just need fetch now and can play basic land for the rest.

Still, I hate it for now but I'll cash for them if they are real.

[Manhattan]

http://worldsoforos.com/secondviews/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/armageddon.jpg

[godryk]

Congratulations to Hasbro. They're gonna sell a shitton of boxes. In some way they're encouraging consumption in financial recession times, so they're helping to save the world.

[DragoFireheart]

What's next? Reprinting of cards on the reserved list?

[DrJones]

No, the Sliver deck.

I would seriously consider mailing wizards asking why Chronicles did not have any card put in the reserved list because it was a "only-reprints" set, yet a set like revised edition which was also a "only-reprints" set had a tenth of the rares in the reserved list, which is frankly stupid and against the purpose of such sets. I think a movement asking for the removal of third edition rares from the reserved list based on this argument alone might be succesful.

[Elfrago]

What's next? Reprinting of cards on the reserved list?

THIS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armaggeddon)
AND THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0&feature=related)

C'mon, I'm a whiner too but I think we're crossing the line here. Until yesterday we wanted those things.

[Digital Devil]

http://worldsoforos.com/secondviews/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/armageddon.jpg
We're talking about Magic. So, your post should look like this:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/jr/16.jpg

It's a Legacy forum, after all.

[Manhattan]

Come on, it's been what? 7 years? We all knew it was going to happen eventually. And all they really do is allow for easier basic-fetching, so you don't even have to use them. It really sounds like: "Why is WotC printing good cards for Legacy, why? Now I want to have them, that is so mean!"
As is this set appears to be so chockfull of staples that it'll be impossible for all of them to be ultraexpensive since the boosters only cost so much.

Regarding the non-financial side to the issue. Damn I love this set. There might already be more cards in this set that are relevant to Legacy than in the entire Shards block. And with much larger impact. There are still almost 200 cards left, one of those a planeswalker.

*With the Armageddon picture I was only trying to poke fun at the subject. I actually dig this set. Better to have all the good stuff in one set than all over the place.

[Tacosnape]

This is kind of neat, because for the most part, these are in no way must-haves for many decks. These are strongest for 2-color and nonallied 3-color decks that want access to basics better.

It brings up intriguing possibilities in decks that are mainly one color with a light splash os two, though. No longer do you have the mindless decision of just running the 8 on-color fetches. Now you have to think, because you can run between 1 and 16 of them.

RB Goblins is a prime example. Most of them don't run a Swamp, and the ones that do won't after Gator comes around. They run some number of red fetchlands, basic mountains, and Badlands. It's not uncommon to see this manabase:

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Badlands
6 Mountain
4 Wasteland

Which feels pretty right. But is that actually superior to, say:

3 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
2 Undersea Volcano*
4 Badlands
5 Mountain
4 Wasteland

*(Okay, so, I have no idea what the U/R one will be called.)

Now, no question the split is better, as it raises protection from random things like Pithing Needle, Extirpate, Haunting Echoes, etc. But are we just programmed to think 8's the right number of fetches now?

I like Enemy Fetches because it's going to force Legacy to think. I dislike them because I personally have to think, and I'm lazy, but I respect the concept.

[Bardo]

Being able to make this 3-thresh manabase makes my day.

4 Polluted Delta
4 U/G Fetch
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp

I've wanted to do that for years.

[Mijorre]

Shit -> fan -> empty wallet.

Let them go.
Also:
Yay for more relevant wasteland-targets.
and
Yay for maindeck suppression field stax.

[MattH]

Time to save all my store credit from winning drafts. :D Screw you, M10 packs!

[kicks_422]

Meh. Just more cards I can't afford.

[troopatroop]

Howabout, Cool! Something we always wanted! You were gonna buy Zendikar anyways, now you could open a Foil Fetchland again. I want all of them : )

[ghindo]

What's next? Reprinting of cards on the reserved list?With any luck, hopefully.

[Nightmare]

Well, I suppose having 40 foil Fetches is still cooler than 20. Time to go to work at the pre-release, I suppose.

[georgjorge]

Howabout, Cool! Something we always wanted!

Except the Wasteland-playing people :frown:

Oh well, I'm still hoping that Wizards will do something evil and only print four fetchlands, leaving the UG one out :tongue:

[Manhattan]

Except the Wasteland-playing people :frown:

Oh well, I'm still hoping that Wizards will do something evil and only print four fetchlands, leaving the UG one out :tongue:

Rainforest is in the orb twice.

[AngryTroll]

Will all five of them be in Zendikar, or might the be spread across the block?

5/53 isn't so bad, but if only half of them are in this set, that decreases the reasons to buy boxes.


MMMm.....so, it'll be possible to open a pack with a foil Rainforest and a regular rainforest as well? So good.

[troopatroop]

MMMm.....so, it'll be possible to open a pack with a foil Rainforest and a regular rainforest as well? So good.

Are you suggesting that be the name for the U/G Fetch? I like it alot even if it's speculation, I can only imagine the picture.

[workingdude]

Will all five of them be in Zendikar, or might the be spread across the block?

5/53 isn't so bad, but if only half of them are in this set, that decreases the reasons to buy boxes.


MMMm.....so, it'll be possible to open a pack with a foil Rainforest and a regular rainforest as well? So good.

I'm not familiar with cycles that are spread across sets. I doubt that these lands will deviate from this trend.

[jakolhops]

Enemy Fetches. Cool story bro.

[AngryTroll]

Are you suggesting that be the name for the U/G Fetch? I like it alot even if it's speculation, I can only imagine the picture.



Rainforest is in the orb twice.

I like the sound of it. We can hope.

[Bardo]

"Rainforest" is perfect. Most of the post-Alpha dual names have been kinda flat and lack resonance. Badlands, Bayou, Tundra. Those are solid.

Caves of Koilos, Shivan Reef, Watery Grave, meh.

[Jak]

Fetches have always had two word names so I'm sure there is something to go along with rainforest.

[keys]

They're speculating the names over at mtgsalv. Based on Orb hits, these are some strong guesses:

Unstable Geyser - U/R
Misty Rainforest- U/G
Verdant Catacombs/Marsh- B/G
Obsidian Flats/Fields - W/B
Arid Mesa/Steppe - R/W

Direct hit on the R/W fetch.

[Pastorofmuppets]

I only played a little Extended at that time and bought a lot of those "new duals". Mistake. How much longer are they Extended legal? :cry:

Just play zoo. These things pretty much mean that the matchup will be Zoo vs. Faeries vs. Ravager vs. Janky combos. so I'd say zoo is the best bet. and its not that far from zoo in Legacy. Great success.

[Thoughtseizer]

I'm not familiar with cycles that are spread across sets. I doubt that these lands will deviate from this trend.

You are quite correct, they will all be in the very same set (whatever set that is). That is something that is for sure though.

[J.V.]

Well, I suppose having 40 foil Fetches is still cooler than 20. Time to go to work at the pre-release, I suppose.

But Adam, they are going to be the gross new border foils... :cry:

[santeria]

Unstable Geyser - U/R
Misty Rainforest- U/G
Verdant Catacombs/Marsh- B/G
Obsidian Flats/Fields - W/B
Arid Mesa/Steppe - R/W



misty rainforest sounds like a bad stripper name.

[rockout]

Unstable Geyser sounds like a male porn star.

[Bardo]

misty rainforest sounds like a bad stripper name.

Not as bad as Verdant Catacombs.

Edit - Actually, all of the new fetch-land names are hilarious stripper names.

[dahcmai]

I'm not sure I would want to meet the girl called Obsidian Flats. lol

[Barook]

I'm not sure I would want to meet the girl called Obsidian Flats. lol
Oh, the possibilities of stupid word plays!

"I'm going to make her Arid Mesa humid if you know what I mean."

[TsumiBand]

Yeah, the naming of new Magic: The Gathering Cards has got to stop.

It's like they just sit around in a room eating Hydrox and Vault and play the worst game of Mid Libs evar. "Gimme an adjective.... ooookay, gimme a noun. All right.... adjective. Noun. Ad...jective? Oh same as last time cool, yeah I don't really want to play anymore either. ...noun?"

EDIT: FWIW, I don't think these actually do anything in Eternal formats. Do I need sixteen cards that search for Swamps? Fuck, that's like, 75% of the land. There's no way these even matter, except to guy who can afford the new fetches but can't afford duals.

[ParkerLewis]

EDIT: FWIW, I don't think these actually do anything in Eternal formats. Do I need sixteen cards that search for Swamps? Fuck, that's like, 75% of the land. There's no way these even matter, except to guy who can afford the new fetches but can't afford duals.

Care to explain how a UG Fetchland wouldn't be better for a UG deck ? You know, so you can choose to go get a basic forest, for instance.

You're not going to put sixteen of them in your deck. You're going to put the four (or five, or six, or whatever) that best suit your needs.

[Aggro_zombies]

Oh, the possibilities of stupid word plays!

"I'm going to make her Arid Mesa humid if you know what I mean."
I'd mist her Rainforest with my Unstable Geyser, if you know what I mean.

[undone]

I dont care Im going to slowly accumulate these, but price predictions would be

25-30 on blue ones
20-25 on non blue ones.

They will all go up 10 over time and than decend to regular prices. its a grim future if im right, but sadly I can see having to spend 250$ on the blue ones =( alone.

P.S. Porn star jokes about fetchlands are not funny, they are simply stupid. That is all.

[santeria]

apparently you've never seen any of the nasty day dancers then.

[Ewokslayer]

I dont care Im going to slowly accumulate these, but price predictions would be

25-30 on blue ones
20-25 on non blue ones.

They will all go up 10 over time and than decend to regular prices. its a grim future if im right, but sadly I can see having to spend 250$ on the blue ones =( alone.

P.S. Porn star jokes about fetchlands are not funny, they are simply stupid. That is all.

That seems a bit high considering the size of the set, the number of rares, and the amount of drafting that will be going on with the set.

I have to say I am not happy to see the fetches. I was looking forward to seeing what an extended season without fetchlands would bring. And a standard with actual mana restrictions.

[mujadaddy]

P.S. Porn star jokes about fetchlands are not funny, they are simply stupid. That is all.SOMEbody needs to get laid...

[jthanatos]

SOMEbody needs to get laid...

Thats the risk we take to play Magic.

[TsumiBand]

Care to explain how a UG Fetchland wouldn't be better for a UG deck ? You know, so you can choose to go get a basic forest, for instance.

You're not going to put sixteen of them in your deck. You're going to put the four (or five, or six, or whatever) that best suit your needs.

Meh. *shrugs* I guess I don't feel like it's going to be that big a deal? Like, most people will be fine without them.

[keys]

Meh. *shrugs* I guess I don't feel like it's going to be that big a deal? Like, most people will be fine without them.

Yeah, the only blue decks that will benefit from U/G or U/R fetches are the ones that want to fetch basics other than islands. Dreadstill is probably the only deck that might want to fetch a Forest or Mountain. Team America will use B/G fetches instead of U/W fetches in order to grab its 1-of Bayou.

[Amber VII]

I'm glad Wizards is printing new fetchlands. The new lands will provide a good point of entry to players who don't currently own fetchlands. It'll also end the practice of using a fetchland for only one-half of its mana output.

Overall, I think Wizard's move will prove beneficial to the long term health of this format.


Also -- and this is still possible -- IF Wizards really wanted to make money on the cycle of enemy fetchlands, they would simply print one different fetchland per set. Or spread them out across the entire Zendikar block. In this way you would have to buy the next X sets instead of just this one.

[Thoughtseizer]

Also -- and this is still possible -- IF Wizards really wanted to make money on the cycle of enemy fetchlands, they would simply print one different fetchland per set. Or spread them out across the entire Zendikar block. In this way you would have to buy the next X sets instead of just this one.

As already explained, the foregoing will most definitely never happen. They will all be in the same set as all the dual lands were, as all the pain lands were and as all the last series of fetch lands were. This is a fundamental certainty.

[Amber VII]

As already explained, the foregoing will most definitely never happen. They will all be in the same set as all the dual lands were, as all the pain lands were and as all the last series of fetch lands were. This is a fundamental certainty.

Weren't the Ravinca lands released over the course of the block? With the introduction of each guild? I agree, Wizards should print the entire cycle in one set. Better yet they should reprint all the Allied fetchlands in the set after Zendikar.

One thing is for certain: This cycle will finally end the rumors and speculation of enemy fetchlands being printed in every new set Wizard's releases.

[Barook]

I agree, Wizards should print the entire cycle in one set. Better yet they should reprint all the Allied fetchlands in the set after Zendikar.
Allied fetchlands are definitely not in the set due to orb results (unless they made functional reprints which I seriously doubt).

[Shabbaman]

I'll be picking up the UG ones and maybe some for EDH. I'm kind of glad they did this and kind of sad that they did this. I'm happy that mana bases will become better because it just means annoying stuff like Wasteland, Moons, etc will have less of an effect. I also like it because it will most likely make people play more basics of their colors.

The thing I dislike is the challenge of making a mana base. This isn't a big thing at all but I always liked configuring mana bases like UGB.

I'm still really happy they did this and am excited to get rid of my Strands and Wooded Foothills!

Edit- What's the rare count for Zendikar? I read that it was like 54 or something, so 5 fetches out of 54 rares are pretty good odds. Wasn't Onslaught like 5 Fetches in 110 rares? I bet the the good ones go for $15 - $18 and the worse ones like $9 - $13.

Considering that there are probably more valuable cards in the set (like the full art lands!) I guess it could be worth it to crack a box (and do some draft in the mean while, cheaper than going to the movies). Someone cares to do the math?

[Fossil4182]

Does anyone think there is a chance the Fetchlands will be broken up over the block?

[Manhattan]

Does anyone think there is a chance the Fetchlands will be broken up over the block?

MaRo stated it was a cycle and this week he said:


Yes, enemy fetch lands are finally here. We were looking for a cool rare cycle of dual lands that played well with landfall, and wouldn't you know, these fit the bill perfectly.

Chances are they are all in this set.

[ParkerLewis]

Yeah, the only blue decks that will benefit from U/G or U/R fetches are the ones that want to fetch basics other than islands. Dreadstill is probably the only deck that might want to fetch a Forest or Mountain. Team America will use B/G fetches instead of U/W fetches in order to grab its 1-of Bayou.

Or any deck facing non-basic haste.

I have played numerous matches with Thresh against Dragon Stompy where I would have loved being able to fetch a basic forest. Against such a deck, if you can manage to get G, you can both Grip their f* Moons and/or drop Goyf to hold down the fort until you get access to your other colors.

[Amber VII]

MaRo stated it was a cycle and this week he said:

Chances are they are all in this set.

I'm glad to hear that. With this being the "lands block" could we also get Mark to reprint Allied fetchlands in Worldwake? :laugh:

Reflecting Pool is a big hit in standard and Allied fetchlands would do wonderful things for the new landfall mechanic. ^^

[Arsenal]

Salvation spoiled the rest of the enemy fetches. The Orb guys were spot on with the names. Misty Rainforest... awesome.

[Arctic_Slicer]

Salvation spoiled the rest of the enemy fetches. The Orb guys were spot on with the names. Misty Rainforest... awesome.

Actually they just listed them in the spoiler with the speculative names with an * next to them. They know the cards are in the set but the exact names have yet to be spoiled.

[Arsenal]

Ah, didn't realize. Good catch. I'm pretty pumped, whatever they may be named.

[DragoFireheart]

P.S. Porn star jokes about fetchlands are not funny, they are simply stupid. That is all.

Don't be such a prude.


Anyways, I hope that (since the release of the Vault) that Wizards continues to make more cards that make Legacy more accessible. I would have no problem with them reprinting dual-lands, as it can only help more people get into Legacy.

Sure, some people might be butt hurt that their black-bordered Chinese dual land got "released" in "From the Vault", but by making more Legacy cards accessible, there remains the increased possibility of more people entering Legacy.

[TheCramp]

Actually they just listed them in the spoiler with the speculative names with an * next to them. They know the cards are in the set but the exact names have yet to be spoiled.

Good I hope that Verdant Marsh is Verdant Catacombs because that is a far more evocative idea. (Flowers growing out of skulls, bees inside coffins, etc - awesome.)

[tivadar]

Am I the only one that thinks enemy fetches are bad for legacy? I personally liked the color barriers that wasteland/duals added to the format. Now those are pretty much gone. With enemy fetches, there's basically next to no reason not to run at least 2 colors in a deck, and any colors you want. Although goblins may be getting a boost with warren instigator, I think we're definitely in line for a format power shift. Then again, thresh/zoo is already doing fairly well...

[quicksilver]

I think they are good for legacy. Their impact will be minor allowing some decks to run more stable mana bases. The main impact is it will allow more decks to run a basic of each color, thus slightly weakening wasteland, and moderatly hurting moon effects, which I am in favor of.

[leander?]

Am I the only one that thinks enemy fetches are bad for legacy?
No. I agree with you 100%. I really think playing just one or two allied colors should be rewarded by a stable manabase. I mean, that makes much more sense. If you want a stable manabase, you're restricted to a few colors. If you want more colors, you'll get a weakened manabase as a result. Sounds nicely balanced, doesn't it?

..thus slightly weakening wasteland, which I am in favor of.
I'm not :frown: Weakening Wasteland means Weakening Life from the Loam. Weakening Life from the Loam means weakening my favorite archetype of all time.

Dear Wizards,
thank you for damaging the coolest archetype of all time. Only time will tell how bad it will end up for Loam and, thus, if I will be continuing playing this game.

I hate you,
Leander

[keys]

I think they are good for legacy. Their impact will be minor allowing some decks to run more stable mana bases. The main impact is it will allow more decks to run a basic of each color, thus slightly weakening wasteland, and moderatly hurting moon effects, which I am in favor of.

QFT. The actual impact on most decks will be minimal, because allied/enemy fetchlands are virtually interchangeable if you're playing with duals. It could make Legacy more accessible to new players, since manabases are some of the biggest barriers to entry, and Zen packs will be drafted like crazy. This, I hope everyone agrees, would be a good thing.

[Dubster]

QFT. The actual impact on most decks will be minimal, because allied/enemy fetchlands are virtually interchangeable if you're playing with duals. It could make Legacy more accessible to new players, since manabases are some of the biggest barriers to entry, and Zen packs will be drafted like crazy. This, I hope everyone agrees, would be a good thing.

+1

[Manhattan]

The lands will do little to none for new players entering the format, since it's the duals that are the real barrier.
And concerning the folks that think that there will now be no distinction between enemy and allied color: that distinction was already irrelevant due to enemy duals. When was the last time you wanted to splash a color but didn't because you couldn't fetch basics in that color? That was never a real concern. People just splash with duals. The fetchies are rarely touched.

[emidln]

The lands will do little to none for new players entering the format, since it's the duals that are the real barrier.
And concerning the folks that think that there will now be no distinction between enemy and allied color: that distinction was already irrelevant due to enemy duals. When was the last time you wanted to splash a color but didn't because you couldn't fetch basics in that color? That was never a real concern. People just splash with duals. The fetchies are rarely touched.

There is a huge internal tension in UBr ANT because the deck wants access to basic Islands and basic Mountains (against stuff like Dreadstill, Merfolk, Tempo Thresh) which was difficult to do when your mountain-fetching land couldn't give you basic Island when you want it. Since the Tendrils decks play so very few lands, being forced to fetch out Volc Island was often a death sentence against the tempo decks.

[georgjorge]

If you want a stable manabase, you're restricted to a few colors. If you want more colors, you'll get a weakened manabase as a result. Sounds nicely balanced, doesn't it?


+1

[Manhattan]

There is a huge internal tension in UBr ANT because the deck wants access to basic Islands and basic Mountains (against stuff like Dreadstill, Merfolk, Tempo Thresh) which was difficult to do when your mountain-fetching land couldn't give you basic Island when you want it. Since the Tendrils decks play so very few lands, being forced to fetch out Volc Island was often a death sentence against the tempo decks.

I admit that enemy fetches are going to affect Legacy somewhat. But is ANT's ability to fetch islands and mountains with the same card really something that hurts the feeling of the colorpie? Using your own example it is clear that because of enemy duals such as Volcanic Island enemy color wasn't a real issue anyway. The number of decks that got scrapped because it couldn't always fetch for the correct basic is virtually none. The new fetches only empower already existing decks with enemy colors. But the colorpie was already violated before.

[DrJones]

There's something called color pie and color relationships and color hosers and allies and such. These are all fine and dandy.

Then there's something called mana base. Saying that mana bases shouldn't be equitative for flavor reasons is like saying that people playing enemy colors should start the game with one card less in their hand for flavor reasons.

[beastman]

There's something called color pie and color relationships and color hosers and allies and such. These are all fine and dandy.

Then there's something called mana base. Saying that mana bases shouldn't be equitative for flavor reasons is like saying that people playing enemy colors should start the game with one card less in their hand for flavor reasons.

Heh. I actually agree with you. Saying that flavor should effect any card is kinda retarded.

[Otter]

Any discussion of color-pie in a format where the best LD spell is an instant that costs U is well... silly.

[Bardo]

Any discussion of color-pie in a format where the best LD spell is an instant that costs U is well... silly.

Heh. Yeah.

It bears repeating that the full dual cycle was printed in Alpha (sans one due to a printing fuck-up). Caves of Koilos, Llanowar Wastes, etc. were printed some years after Adarkar Wastes and friends, but they were still printed.

Anyway, flavor be damned in this case. Enemy fetches will be the best thing to happen to Legacy manabases in years.

[TheCramp]

I agree that this will not effect current DTB/W to much. But I think it will have an effect on other established decks. Base blue decks just run something which can fetch Islands, the other land is usually irrelevant. But non-blue enemy pairings which are more balanced across all three colors benefit from this. BGW and RBW are the decks which become more waste resilient. Not thresh, it will still fetch Trop with Misty Rainforest same as Flooded Strand often enough. White Rock or BWG Loam however wins big. It can run off Swamp Plains Forest just fine, and now it gets 8 (eight!) fetchs to enable this configuration. I don't imagine a RBW deck popping up, but if it were to, it would also benefit.

[Arctic_Slicer]

We got picture!

http://imgur.com/Rk99m.jpg

[Bardo]

Yes, I will play with that.

[Jak]

Yes, I will play with that.

As will I. The picture could have looked like an ugly ass prostitute and I would still play with that card.

[Shanghi Knights]

another bad move on wizards part is my personal thought as it only negatively impacts legacy for those of us who don't like change. but i suppose wizards must do such like this for there money making formats extended and standard.

[Aggro_zombies]

We got picture!
The first thing I thought when I read that was, "Main screen turned on!" I know it's supposed to be "signal," but it's similar enough.

That card is gorgeous, which is fortunate because I'll be looking at it a lot when I play it in everything.

@Shanghi: Boo fucking hoo. Also, you're an idiot.

EDIT: "That Misty Rainforest, she's a real looker!"

[Arctic_Slicer]

The first thing I thought when I read that was, "Main screen turned on!" I know it's supposed to be "signal," but it's similar enough.

Not-so-coincidentally, I was actually thinking about that same scene when I was typing it. It felt kind of lame to just post a picture but no text so I added that one liner at the top as an afterthought.

[Shanghi Knights]

The first thing I thought when I read that was, "Main screen turned on!" I know it's supposed to be "signal," but it's similar enough.

That card is gorgeous, which is fortunate because I'll be looking at it a lot when I play it in everything.

@Shanghi: Boo fucking hoo. Also, you're an idiot.

EDIT: "That Misty Rainforest, she's a real looker!"

am i now?

Aggro Zombies can you honestly say you wouldn't cough up a couple hundred bucks for potentially game changing cards? (Ex. tarmogoyf) Of course it remains to be seen if these fetchlands are game changing. But that was the context of my thinking when i said what i said. Being fetchlands i know dealers will try to gobble them up and sell them rediculusly high.

personally i don't think there impact will be much but there is always that possibility.

[Bardo]

The effect will be subtle--but you'll see it. They won't be revolutionary, because they're more of the same revolution, but they will be part of Legacy for the foreseeable future. That's more than I can say for most cards in the format (with the exception of a few).

In terms of impact:

1. Ons/Zen Fetches
2. A/B/U/R Duals
3. Basic Lands

I think, in that order.

That's fucking huge.

Edit -- This is like if Wizards published Tundra/U Sea/Taiga/Badlands/Savannah in [Set X], then Tropical Island/Bayou/Volcanic Island/etc. in [Set X+7].

That order of huge.

[Skeggi]

I really think playing just one or two allied colors should be rewarded by a stable manabase. I mean, that makes much more sense. If you want a stable manabase, you're restricted to a few colors. If you want more colors, you'll get a weakened manabase as a result. Sounds nicely balanced, doesn't it?

While enemy fetches means manabases of multi-colored decks are more stable than they were before, it's still a fact that if you want more colors, you'll get a weakened manabase as a result. A dual land still 'only' makes two colors. You still fear Wasteland, Stifle, Back to Basics and Blood Moon. I don't see the big problem to be honest. All I see now is Eva Green that can finally play a Forest maindeck, which she should be able to in my opinion.

The enemy fetches are going to be very popular, but they won't break the format nor will they invalidate any current deck. Aggro Loam will still be a good deck, so will Merfolk, so will Eva Green. Some decks will benefit from the enemy fetches, some will not. But the changes are minute.

[keys]

I wish the art had a little more intrigue. It's very plain. But it doesn't look bad by any means, so I guess I can't complain.

No more fugly Flooded Strands :smile:

[Tangle.Wire]

So most UGR Decks like ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh, CB, Dreadstill will be able to play blue fetches but will still be able to fetch for the opposing basiclands i like that but i think i will stay by the older fetches as they have the classic magic layout (i favor) and i dont need to pay around 15-20€ just to get other looking fetches which give me the same effekt as before (i dont played non island basics before and i think i wont in the future)

Also i think the artworks won't be as "simply drawn" as the older ones. :mad:

[Waikiki]

misty rainforest looks great!

[Digital Devil]

I've been meditating for a while. Blood Moon effects won't be weakened. On tha play, Blood Moon is still as deadly as it used to be. On the draw, if a player really wanted to fetch for a basic Forest it already had the chance to do so. I mean, of the :u::g::r: and Bant decks I played against, most of them were packing Windswept Heath. Now they will pack that Misty Rainforest. Nothing will change for us Moon players, except the part in which we cry because our opponent has Misty Rainforest and we have Ancient Tombs. And we aren't necrophiliac, thus, Misty Rainforest is a cooler name. The thing I see becoming weaker is Wasteland, though. Not so weak, since I think players will pack 3-4 basics maximum, so, against the other half of the manabase it is still pretty strong. And Mishra's Factory is still a bitch even with the release of Zendikar. To continue living, things must evolve, and I accept the release of enemy fetchlands.

[Skeggi]

The thing I see becoming weaker is Wasteland, though.
As long as people fetch for basics instead of duals because they fear Wasteland, it's doing its job.

[Tangle.Wire]

As long as people fetch for basics instead of duals because they fear Wasteland, it's doing its job.

Also notice if the hype really starts people will cut duals to add basics and they will change the number of the fetchlands maybe only +1 or +2 but ourself playing a set of wastelands gets much stronger as skeggi said if they pick a basicland instead of a dual + we can waste their duals of one single color for example classic UGR Decklists run 2-3 Tropical/Volcanic if those get cut for basics/new fetches we find easier targets with our wastelands.

[pointofinfo]

Now that the moaning is over and analysis is beginning, the implications are very clear:

1. The decks that prefer these fetches will favor them. That's kind of obvious.
2. The price point for these cards will be very different from the Onslaught lands because of the remarkable difference in set size and the relative amount of product that will be purchased. Zendikar will likely be bought in boxes more often due to the promotional Day of Judgement. The higher volume of purchased product will make the cards more available initially than the Onslaught fetches are now.
3. The Onslaught fetches are priced with speculative value. The cards aren't really worth $20 American (maybe Polluted Delta is!), but they have inflated value because of their scarcity to dealers as opposed to players. If a dealer doesn't have Wooded Foothills to sell, that dealer will pay a higher premium for the in-demand card. The prevalence of Standard cards makes them worth less to the speculative buyer. The prices should be somewhere from 9-12 for preorder, then rise about 2-3 dollars depending upon what else Zendikar has to offer in terms of Standard decks.
4. "Once Lorwyn rotates out of Standard" is the most uttered phrase on all of the major sites covering T2. The sigh of relief will translate into better sales for Zendikar, as T2 players shed the block that has dominated non-Eternal formats for two years.
5. Standard may look a little bit more like Extended in terms of fetching up your lands to pump Wild Nacatl up while you lay Woolly Thoctar down on turn three. The implication is that the Standard player becomes the Extended player, who forks over 150 more dollars and becomes a Legacy player. These cards should not provide a barrier to entry into Legacy like some were loathing, but allow "Strictly Standard" players to move more gracefully into other formats.
6. Eva Green is better, kinda?
7. The Wasteland issue: Maybe I'm biased because I just picked up my playset, but while these new fetches may affect deckbuilding slightly, they don't affect the psychology of players. A player who wants to utilize Stifle will have a target and a player who uses Wasteland will still get activations in. A player with a three-color Threshold deck will still want Tropical Island and Volcanic Island in play because of the convenience of the mana. A U/R or U/G fetch does not change the efficiency of the land it grabs, it merely improves the long-term defense of the deck against recursive strategies. Perhaps a Crucible of Worlds-Wasteland lock will involve Ghost Quarter at some point, but until then, Wasteland is just as powerful in its tempo strength.

[Digital Devil]

As long as people fetch for basics instead of duals because they fear Wasteland, it's doing its job.

Also notice if the hype really starts people will cut duals to add basics and they will change the number of the fetchlands maybe only +1 or +2 but ourself playing a set of wastelands gets much stronger as skeggi said if they pick a basicland instead of a dual + we can waste their duals of one single color for example classic UGR Decklists run 2-3 Tropical/Volcanic if those get cut for basics/new fetches we find easier targets with our wastelands.
I think we're talking about two different things. I personally think the [ZEN] fetchlands will replace some of the [ONS] ones. Then, when your opponent needs green to cast its Tarmogoyf, but you have Wastelands, he has to think, because if he cracks its Delta for a Tropical he can play *only* that Tarmogoyf. If he fetches for a basic Forest with Rainforest, though, he has no problem with that. Playing Blood Moon, I noticed a UG-X player only needs a basic Island and a basic Forest to continue his gameplan. Blue gives access to cantrips, green to Goyf and eventually Grip. I was simply saying, referring to the example I made a few lines before this, that's the *only* nerfing Wasteland will receive, because now there will be Misty Rainforest, but Windswept Heath was released in 2002, so the problem about fetching for a basic Island and a basic Forest is irrelevant. That said, I don't think the new fetchlands are gamebreaking or whatsoever: the most relevant thing I can think of is that we'll probably see Rainforest replacing Flooded Strand and the UR one replacing Delta in :u::g::r: decks. There is only a single corner case which weakens Wasteland (Delta vs. Rainforest). The other things will remain unaffected. That's my humble (and irrelevant) opinion.

[Skeggi]

Then, when your opponent needs green to cast its Tarmogoyf, but you have Wastelands, he has to think, because if he cracks its Delta for a Tropical he can play *only* that Tarmogoyf. If he fetches for a basic Forest with Rainforest, though, he has no problem with that.
While you're very correct that in the latter scenario your opponent keeps his Forest, you also get to keep your Wasteland. The result is actually the same: your opponent doesn't have a blue source.

[Digital Devil]

While you're very correct that in the latter scenario your opponent keeps his Forest, you also get to keep your Wasteland. The result is actually the same: your opponent doesn't have a blue source.
Tarmogoyf costs :1::g:. And of course, the colorless part will be payed with blue mana. So, the player still has his blue mana to play his Brainstorm in response to stuff, to Submerge your Tombstalker, to Mind Harness your Terravore, and when he hits the third land, basic or not, he plays Crucible, then your Wasteland isn't much of an issue. Not that all decks pack Crucible, just an example. I'm playing an almost-all-basic (only 3 dual lands) UGB Gifts Rock version, lately, and I can assure you dead-drawing Wasteland isn't good, at least is what I think my opponent thinks. *They keep* their Wasteland. But when the only thing I can do with my Wasteland is -2ing myself by destroying my own nonbasics, I wouldn't be happy. It's just a corner case. Wasteland will still kill Trops when they're trying to go turn 1 Mongoose, turn 2 cantrip into a better card, or whatever.

[johanessen]

Then, when your opponent needs green to cast its Tarmogoyf, but you have Wastelands, he has to think, because if he cracks its Delta for a Tropical he can play *only* that Tarmogoyf.

This. Had been many times on that scenario, and Rainforest's gonna help

[MMogg]

Tarmogoyf costs :1::g:. And of course, the colorless part will be payed with blue mana. So, the player still has his blue mana to play his Brainstorm in response to stuff, to Submerge your Tombstalker, to Mind Harness your Terravore, and when he hits the third land, basic or not, he plays Crucible, then your Wasteland isn't much of an issue. Not that all decks pack Crucible, just an example. I'm playing an almost-all-basic (only 3 dual lands) UGB Gifts Rock version, lately, and I can assure you dead-drawing Wasteland isn't good, at least is what I think my opponent thinks. *They keep* their Wasteland. But when the only thing I can do with my Wasteland is -2ing myself by destroying my own nonbasics, I wouldn't be happy. It's just a corner case. Wasteland will still kill Trops when they're trying to go turn 1 Mongoose, turn 2 cantrip into a better card, or whatever.

But strategically, you should never play a Wasteland without a target in play (unless you are trying to dissuade your opponent, as Skeggi suggests, from playing or fetching for a non-basic). As you yourself just said, a Wasteland without a target is a waste (no pun intended), so unless you absolutely need that mana, don't play it. Sure they will have a turn to use their dual land/non-basic, but you can get rid of it your next turn and ensure they only get one use.

[TheCramp]

As long as people fetch for basics instead of duals because they fear Wasteland, it's doing its job.

this is what I was thinking of when I wrote:


Base blue decks just run something which can fetch Islands, the other land is usually irrelevant. But non-blue enemy pairings which are more balanced across all three colors benefit from this. BGW and RBW(ok so that's not a deck...) are the decks which become more waste resilient. Not thresh, it will still fetch Trop with Misty Rainforest same as Flooded Strand often enough. (or get cut off :u::u:.) White Rock or BWG Loam however wins big. It can run off Swamp Plains Forest just fine, and now it gets 8 (eight!) fetchs to enable this configuration.

When you can cast 'Goyf, Thought Seize, Swords, Sculler, Grip, Deed, Knight of the Reliquary (perhaps,) Therapy, Birds, LftL, edict, EE off of Basic Plains Swamp Forest... all while profiting off top... you are neutering wasteland. I find this compelling.

[MMogg]

Ooo, I want:

http://wizards.com/mtg/images/tcg/products/zendikar/48uutg1a1n_EN.jpg

[MattH]

"Blow up your Trop, Extirpate" just became an even worse play than it already was. Can we finally stop putting Breeding Pool in our Legacy decks, people?

[TheCramp]

"Blow up your Trop, Extirpate" just became an even worse play than it already was. Can we finally stop putting Breeding Pool in our Legacy decks, people?

Just when Extirpate became oh-so-slightly better too. poor card.

[ParkerLewis]

"Blow up your Trop, Extirpate" just became an even worse play than it already was. Can we finally stop putting Breeding Pool in our Legacy decks, people?

Did anyone ever actually do that ?

[whienot]

Run Breeding Pool or Extirpate trops?

I almost bought a breeding pool after having my trops extirpated for the 3rd time.

[MattH]

Just when Extirpate became oh-so-slightly better too. poor card.

I missed when that happened...?

I've seen some lists run the Pool. Mainly U/G/X control things, like Landstill feat. Loam or something.

[Smmenen]

QFT!

I'm not so pleased with having to spend a shitload of money for more staples just to stay competitive.

Wizards of the Coast is a business, which is trying to make money.

[quicksilver]

Did anyone ever actually do that ?

I think the entire European meta game is built around doing that.

[from Cairo]

QFT!

I'm not so pleased with having to spend a shitload of money for more staples just to stay competitive.Wizards of the Coast is a business, which is trying to make money.

I'm just glad they're all being printed in one set. This might be the first expansion I'd pick up a box of since Onslaught.

[Bardo]

Did anyone ever actually do that ?
I've done it and had it done to me. 'Tis a complete and utter bummer.

[Amon Amarth]

I'm just glad they're all being printed in one set. This might be the first expansion I'd pick up a box of since Onslaught.

Same. This is looking like the most important set since Onslaught. Also eerily similar too.

[quicksilver]

I've done it and had it done to me. 'Tis a complete and utter bummer.

If by complete and utter bummer you mean it doesn't effect you at all except they had to spend a mana and a card, then yes this has also happened to me.

[Valdez]

I think the entire European meta game is built around doing that.
"The entire European meta game" written by brothers Grimm.

[MMogg]

Wizards of the Coast is a business, which is trying to make money.

So is professional sports: it's only an entertainment business, but you can't get a lap dance while you watch a game although I think that would raise attendance rates at failing franchises exponentially. I just don't think "in the name of money" is the bar for decision making. :wink:

[Jak]

This is awesome. People are actually mad at Wizards for printing some heavily playable cards that people have been wanting for years. That isn't even the best part though! The reasons they are giving are completely bull shit! The lands are bad flavor wise, Wizards is only trying to make money, etc. Lol.

[MMogg]

This is awesome. People are actually mad at Wizards for printing some heavily playable cards that people have been wanting for years. That isn't even the best part though! The reasons they are giving are completely bull shit! The lands are bad flavor wise, Wizards is only trying to make money, etc. Lol.

Actually were they to print them at UC, there would be not a word about pricing or money. Estimations of $15-20 per land is a bit crazy.

[Arctic_Slicer]

The prices should be somewhere from 9-12 for preorder, then rise about 2-3 dollars depending upon what else Zendikar has to offer in terms of Standard decks.


I hate to burst your bubble but the pre-order auctions on ebay have been closing in the $60-$80($15-$20 per card); significantly higher than your prediction. We don't know the complete set but we do know that Zendikar is a lands matters set and the new landfall mechanic specifically works great with fetch lands making fetch lands a must have for any deck trying to make use of the Zendikar lands matters cards. Onslaught had no such mechanics which left the value of the fetch lands somewhat low, about $8, when that set was standard legal. These cards will be played in a very different standard environment making them more valuable than their Onslaught counterparts; at least until they rotate out of standard and possibly extended.

[Smmenen]

So is professional sports: it's only an entertainment business, but you can't get a lap dance while you watch a game although I think that would raise attendance rates at failing franchises exponentially. I just don't think "in the name of money" is the bar for decision making. :wink:


There is a huge difference though. The entertainment is the service that professional sports sells. It's their revenue stream: the ticket, etc.

For Magic, the revenue source comes primarily from product sales.

Wizards is in the business of selling cards. Congratulations to them for making us buy them.

[Jak]

Actually were they to print them at UC, there would be not a word about pricing or money. Estimations of $15-20 per land is a bit crazy.

Not really. For such quality lands that will be played in every format, $15 is decent. The Ravnica duals are a different story.

[Volt]

Wizards printing good cards that are rare, and therefore valuable, is a large part of what sustains the secondary market. Without the secondary market, there is no local shop where geeks like us can go draft on Wednesday nights, play T2 on Friday nights and Legacy on Saturdays.

[Bardo]

The facts are, Hasbro/Wizards designs and manufactures cards. They're a for-profit business, traded on the stock-market (http://www.nyse.com/about/listed/has.html), and they want you to buy their product. Good dual lands have been traditionally printed at rare (A/B/U/R duals, IA pain-lands, ONS fetch-lands, RAV shock-lands, etc. ), and ZEN fetches are no different.

Buy the ticket, take the ride or don't. We don't care. Would it be nice if they were printed at uncommon? Sure. Still, doesn't matter.

Honestly, I'd prefer we keep $$ out of the discussion. They never go anywhere worth discussing.

[MMogg]

The facts are, Hasbro/Wizards designs, develops and prints cards. They're a for-profit business, traded on the stock-market (http://www.nyse.com/about/listed/has.html), and they want you to buy their product. Good dual lands have been traditionally printed at rare (original Alpha, pain-lands, fetch-lands, shock-lands, etc. ), and ZEN fetches are no different.

Buy the ticket, take the ride or don't.

Honestly, I'd prefer we keep $$ out of the discussion. They never go anywhere worth discussing.

Beyond cost what is there to discuss? Everyone wants them, everyone will play them, they're the best thing since sliced bread, which is why everyone is going nuts over them. Not much to discuss there. Decks that can use them will, decks that can't won't. :wink:

Ok, ok, I'll stop complaining. I'll eat instant noodles for a month and acquire them.

[AngryTroll]

If by complete and utter bummer you mean it doesn't effect you at all except they had to spend a mana and a card, then yes this has also happened to me.

I lost to Extirpate because against a black deck, I hid the Swords I wanted on top of my library to keep it safe from Thoughtseize and Hymn. He Extirpated my Tropical Islands, Shuffled away my Swords, and beat me to death with some dork wearing some enchantments.

So, yes, I've randomly lost games I should have won to Extirpate. Also, you randomly lose to having zero win conditions left in your deck if your Trop gets Extirpated early.

I still don't think it's a great card.

[Bardo]

Right, this is off-topic so I'll say it quickly. Waste-Extirpate (Tropical Island) vs. most Thresh lists is game. Nice Tarmogoyf/Nimble Mongoose (in your hand).

[TheCramp]

I missed when that happened...?



New oracal text says exile. You can't wish for an exiled card now. So exile your LftL, can't wish it back. (you may only get the one in your sideboard, take that! oh... wait... hence "ever-so-slightly")

[MattH]

New oracal text says exile. You can't wish for an exiled card now. So exile your LftL, can't wish it back. (you may only get the one in your sideboard, take that! oh... wait... hence "ever-so-slightly")

Ah, right, gotcha. I thought for a second I had missed the rise of some new strategy that Extirpate punked.

[Shanghi Knights]

so is it possible there booster pack sales are down? by making these popular cards there hoping to entice more booster sales?

[Arctic_Slicer]

so is it possible there booster pack sales are down? by making these popular cards there hoping to entice more booster sales?

Not at all. Pre-orders for the set have surpassed all expectations and all distributors are completely out of product. Online websites have upped the price of booster boxes and fat-packs due to high demand. The demand for the product is breaking all records and is even surpassing the records set by m10. If this trend continues shortages are inevitable.

[ghindo]

Not at all. Pre-orders for the set have surpassed all expectations and all distributors are completely out of product. Online websites have upped the price of booster boxes and fat-packs due to high demand. The demand for the product is breaking all records and is even surpassing the records set by m10. If this trend continues shortages are inevitable.You got a source on that?

[Arctic_Slicer]

You got a source on that?

Ben Bleiwess (http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/archive.php?Article=Ben%20Bleiweiss) was posting (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=4288612&postcount=30) about that at MTGSalvation.com (http://mtgsalvation.com/).

[Artowis]

You got a source on that?

Ask any dealer. Literally any of them. M10 was a fucking gold mine for them. The dealers who got a clue early made bank selling to the dealers who ran out of product.

As for Zendikar, here's something I probably shouldn't be spilling, but I'll share anyway.

Within 48 hours of enemy fetches being confirmed, one local dealer sold out of his listing of 82 boxes of Zendikar. In less than a week a larger dealer sold 150+ boxes, multiple cases and a dozen 4x full Zendikar sets.

Just by looking at SCG, they've sold at least 80 boxes since I last checked Sunday night.

This set is going to be completely sold out product-wise before the actual release, not even close. People who never buy product are buying cases simply for the resale value. Even if all you do is buy the boxes and leave them sealed, you'll be able to resell them at a 20-30 dollar mark-up without issue. If you have some extra cash lying around, throw it at this, you'll make it back guaranteed within a week of receiving it.

p.s. anyone want to share the cost of a case or five? lol.

[jazzykat]

Is there a set limit of the amount of Zen that Wizards will print or will they crank it out until people stop buying it and everyone has enough supply?

[ParkerLewis]

Even if all you do is buy the boxes and leave them sealed, you'll be able to resell them at a 20-30 dollar mark-up without issue. If you have some extra cash lying around, throw it at this, you'll make it back guaranteed within a week of receiving it.

p.s. anyone want to share the cost of a case or five? lol.

I'm 100% up for it. Probably for even more than this if you're that sure on the return of investment.

[georgjorge]

Nice...another bubble to add to those already existing in the current economy (I'm only half-serious).

[Manhattan]

Ben Bleiwess (http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/archive.php?Article=Ben%20Bleiweiss) was posting (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=4288612&postcount=30) about that at MTGSalvation.com (http://mtgsalvation.com/).


For what it's worth, this is not at all true. This set has been allocated at the distributor level, and is likely already sold out (three weeks before release). We have had great difficulty ordering the number of boxes we want to order for this set, and will likely fall short of the allotment we want.

Magic is going through an unprecedented growth spurt right now, and until the printing presses catch up to demand, I'd expect these prices to be the norm, rather than the exception. I expect boxes to hit $99.99 before the presale period is over; at our current $89.99 price, this set is outselling the presales of ANY previous Magic set by a large multiple.

- Ben

Wow! That has to be more awesome news than any card within the set.

[Barook]

For what it's worth, this is not at all true. This set has been allocated at the distributor level, and is likely already sold out (three weeks before release). We have had great difficulty ordering the number of boxes we want to order for this set, and will likely fall short of the allotment we want.

Magic is going through an unprecedented growth spurt right now, and until the printing presses catch up to demand, I'd expect these prices to be the norm, rather than the exception. I expect boxes to hit $99.99 before the presale period is over; at our current $89.99 price, this set is outselling the presales of ANY previous Magic set by a large multiple.

Hopefully, they learn from this and give people more of what they actually want instead of tons of unplayable jank and the "Baaaaaaaaw, but we made promise and aren't going to break it"-Reserved List.

[Mr. Fix it]

Not at all. Pre-orders for the set have surpassed all expectations and all distributors are completely out of product. Online websites have upped the price of booster boxes and fat-packs due to high demand. The demand for the product is breaking all records and is even surpassing the records set by m10. If this trend continues shortages are inevitable.

I saw a card with same cost as wrath of god but different name. based on that plus these fetches this is definitely going to be a huge set for type 2 and eternal formats. The total impact for eternal formats i'm not quite sure what that will be. Yet with 8 total of "wraths" in a deck being possible we will see soon enough.

[Arctic_Slicer]

Is there a set limit of the amount of Zen that Wizards will print or will they crank it out until people stop buying it and everyone has enough supply?

Normal cards get additional printings as needed and Zendikar is no exception. While the product may be sold out right now; after a few months the supply of cards should be able to catch up to demand making the product accessible again. Fat-packs (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=4289347&postcount=49) however, are a one time printing and once those are gone they are gone.


I saw a card with same cost as wrath of god but different name. based on that plus these fetches this is definitely going to be a huge set for type 2 and eternal formats. The total impact for eternal formats i'm not quite sure what that will be. Yet with 8 total of "wraths" in a deck being possible we will see soon enough.

The new card is generally worse than Wrath of God and Wrath of God itself already sees little play in the eternal formats. I personally don't think the new wrath with have much of an impact, if any, on eternal formats.

[leander?]

This is awesome. People are actually mad at Wizards for printing some heavily playable cards that people have been wanting for years. That isn't even the best part though! The reasons they are giving are completely bull shit! The lands are bad flavor wise, Wizards is only trying to make money, etc. Lol.
There's just something you're missing. All of the people that are in favor of the new fetches are posting about how bullshit those reasons are. But is that an actual statement? Not really. Ofcourse Legacy doesn't care about money or flavor. In my opinion thats not even worth posting, really. So it seems like you're defending the fetches, but in fact your stating the obvious. The critics against wich they're not defending the fetches, are the ones that actually do make sense. But they seem pretty much ignored. I've never seen anyone defending the fetches against, for example (to quote myself),

I really think playing just one or two (allied) colors should be rewarded by a stable manabase. I mean, that makes much more sense. If you want a stable manabase (advantage), you're restricted to a few colors (disadvantage). If you want more colors (advantage), you'll get a weakened manabase as a result (disadvantage). Sounds nicely balanced, doesn't it?

[sauce]

wizards have figured it out - to make money, lets print insane cards in every set.
duhhhhhhh...

[beastman]

I'm pretty sure that the u/g and b/g one are the only ones that will make a difference in the format.

[Pastorofmuppets]

I'm pretty sure that the u/g and b/g one are the only ones that will make a difference in the format.

Zoo will have the R/W one

[Bardo]

I can see Obsidian Flats (W/B) getting used (maybe as a 2-of) in UWB Landstill. Being able to fetch a blue dual or a basic swamp or plains seems swell.

[Signatus]

I think they'll just be used as 1 or 2-ofs at best, except maybe for the BG and UG lands. the others will just be "pithing needle" protection. kinda. particularly those decks that don't run basics.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

I think it is certainly safe to say they will see more play in Extended with the other fetches rotating out than they will see in Legacy. Plenty of demand all around though.

[Manhattan]

No. I agree with you 100%. I really think playing just one or two allied colors should be rewarded by a stable manabase. I mean, that makes much more sense. If you want a stable manabase, you're restricted to a few colors. If you want more colors, you'll get a weakened manabase as a result. Sounds nicely balanced, doesn't it?


Since you wanted this paragraph to be addressed, here's my response.
Legacy has such a solid manabase that coloralignement is already irrelevant. Because of this good mana, Legacy is defined by decktypes, not by colors. Color in Legacy is largely reduced to flavor. Merfolk plays Tarmogoyf. Thresh plays Confidant. Combo plays Orim's Chant. The only thing that can keep a deck from splashing a good card is not coloralignement but nonbasiclandhate. Now you might argue that nonbasiclandhate hits enemy colors harder since they couldn't fetch for basics before and this can enforce friendly coloralignements. This might be theoretically correct but in practice is almost irrelevant. Consider two examples:
A) I splash very few cards (two or so), even if it is in a friendly alignement I am not going to put a basic into my deck for that.
B) I splash many cards (more than 4), even if they are in a enemy alignement I am still going to splash them. Even if I can't play them over basics.
It is only within that narrow range - where you play just enough off color cards to justify putting basics of that color into your deck but not enough off color cards for you to keep them if you couldn't fetch for basics - that these fetches are actually creating new decks. Any below the range and it doesn't matter which fetch you use. Any above and you just strengthen the manabase of a deck that will exist anyway.

[DragoFireheart]

So I guess this means magic will have a chance to die for a longer period of time?

[morgan_coke]

BGW is in love with these. The amount the W/B and G/B reduce your reliance on duals and vulnerability to wasteland is really hard to underestimate. Most rockish builds will probably run a 3/3/2 split, with the two depending on which is their least used color.

And as has been noted elswere, the W/B and R/W ones finally allow rwb decks to be explored, though Tarmogoyfs presence in the meta may be enough to keep them down, at least it won't be due to mana issues anymore.

[rockout]

I can see Obsidian Flats (W/B) getting used (maybe as a 2-of) in UWB Landstill. Being able to fetch a blue dual or a basic swamp or plains seems swell.

I agree, I'm already in the process of preordering some.

[Shanghi Knights]

So I guess this means magic will have a chance to die for a longer period of time?

it might be dying but at the same time these death moves to us players who been around a while, might be what it needs to keep going longer.

[from Cairo]

I agree, I'm already in the process of preordering some.

Going by ebay the prices seem to be something like...

U/G = ~$16
U/R = ~$15
G/B = ~$14
W/R & B/W = ~$12-13

Considering how bomb fetches have proven to be in the past I'm sort of surprised they aren't higher, since they will be seeing play in every format and while maybe not as needed in eternal they are definitely crucial to the upcoming Extended season, and will see play in all the other formats.

[DragoFireheart]

Going by ebay the prices seem to be something like...

U/G = ~$16
U/R = ~$15
G/B = ~$14
W/R & B/W = ~$12-13

Considering how bomb fetches have proven to be in the past I'm sort of surprised they aren't higher, since they will be seeing play in every format and while maybe not as needed in eternal they are definitely crucial to the upcoming Extended season, and will see play in all the other formats.

They will all double within the next few months after they come out. Just like Maelstorm Pulse.

[from Cairo]

Yea I'd tend to agree, but I still find it surprising that the pre-orders are ending so cheaply, based on other prices of cards in standard - I really can't picture any of these falling below $18-20 while they are T2 legal.

[Shanghi Knights]

i'm sure some one some where will have all the blue ones jacked up to 40 bucks in now time.

when i get a play set i'm gunna go wave my binder in front of the store owner just to taunt them.

i don't know what that would accomplish. but when you make one hard core dealer go boogy eye, you can't help but want to do it again.

[DrHealex]

People seem to be blowing fetchland prices way out of proportions. They are in a small set with alot of good cards (for type2 at least). And as far as type 2 is concerned, they aren't amazing enough to justify a high pricetag to trigger the landfall ability a little more. As for mana fixing, mana is certainly fixed enough as is.

On another note. These new fetchlands are going to make one's deck more transparent. Since droping a polluted delta could mean you are playing ANYTHING blue or black whereas a misty rainforest would mean you are playing Blue AND green.

It will be nice to have that little bit of extra knowledge now is all I'm saying.

[Shimi]

On another note. These new fetchlands are going to make one's deck more transparent. Since droping a polluted delta could mean you are playing ANYTHING blue or black whereas a misty rainforest would mean you are playing Blue AND green.

It will be nice to have that little bit of extra knowledge now is all I'm saying.

I was just thinking about what does enemy fetchs will change and find two things , the first is that.Decks becoming more transparent (or people are going to bluff dropping diferent fetchs?).The other (and more important for me) is that people can now play 1 basic land of certain type which makes wasteland less powerful(not useless!!) in some cases but doing that players could have problems for having double mana ( UU , WW , GG , RR , BB).
So what do you guys think about that?

[kabal]

... is that people can now play 1 basic land of certain type which makes wasteland less powerful(not useless!!) in some cases but doing that players could have problems for having double mana ( UU , WW , GG , RR , BB).

Ding, ding, ding ... Onto of that, if they are playing 3 - 4 color deck could also lead to just general mana screw. That is more in likely the case, since most decks that will benefit from the new fetches don't really have that many double same color mana cost spells.

[Apex]

They will all double within the next few months after they come out. Just like Maelstorm Pulse.

There's no way these fetches will double in price (go to $30? that's way too much).

Plus, Maelstrom Pulse has remained at a steady $15-$16 since its release, despite seeing play in a shit-ton of standard decks, and reborn was the third set in the block.

The fetches should stabilize around $10-$12, maybe $15 during the peak of extended season, and lower when the ptqs blow over.

[MMogg]

And as far as type 2 is concerned, they aren't amazing enough to justify a high pricetag to trigger the landfall ability a little more.

I will preface this by saying I know nothing about current Standard, but from my basic understanding of Standard from years ago, your statement cannot really be anything but hypothetical at this point because no one can be sure what new decks/deck types will emerge with Zen's release. As far as Standard is concerned, it will depend on the current decks to beat as to which fetches are most sought after, and that's really dependent on the other cards they print, not the lands themselves.

Legacy is another story as can be seen by people foaming at the mouth over Misty Rainforest. :laugh:

[MattH]

On another note. These new fetchlands are going to make one's deck more transparent. Since droping a polluted delta could mean you are playing ANYTHING blue or black whereas a misty rainforest would mean you are playing Blue AND green.

It will be nice to have that little bit of extra knowledge now is all I'm saying.
To be fair, from now on, a Delta will also give 100% color indication. The existence of these fetches kind of back-engineers their same transparency onto the old fetches, which I find fascinating.

[Dubster]

To be fair, from now on, a Delta will also give 100% color indication. The existence of these fetches kind of back-engineers their same transparency onto the old fetches, which I find fascinating.

Imo that's not true for a lot of decks though, like for most ANT/Solidarity/Canadian ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh decks, you can still use any blue fetchland. Not to mention that this format has a lot of weird decks that you could never guess by their first landdrops.

[Ciberon]

He was talking about Standard.

[Van Phanel]

I hate them. Until now it was really easy to split blue Fetchlands 3/3 in Solidarity. Now I'll have to decide how I'm going to run the 2/2/1/1- split. I have no idea how to do that (yet). Likely two U-G ones for faking Tarmogoyf-decks though.

Plus I'll have to get them in Foil. Damnit

[Manhattan]

I hate them. Until now it was really easy to split blue Fetchlands 3/3 in Solidarity. Now I'll have to decide how I'm going to run the 2/2/1/1- split. I have no idea how to do that (yet). Likely two U-G ones for faking Tarmogoyf-decks though.

Plus I'll have to get them in Foil. Damnit

I think Solidarity is in for some rainy days with Instigator. That guy is a nightmare for Solidarity on equal par to Lackey.

[Tacosnape]

I think Solidarity is in for some rainy days with Instigator. That guy is a nightmare for Solidarity on equal par to Lackey.

Somehow I think compared to Counterbalance and the general speeding up of the format by about a turn that Warren Instigator's just going to be a match on a fire.

[coraz86]

Plus I'll have to get them in Foil. Damnit

On the plus side, they will be much hotter foils than the Onslaught ones; I was never a fan of that little shooting-star-thing they used to do. (I am, to be fair, a little depressed that I can't afford the DCI versions; those are a win and a half each.)

[Manhattan]

Somehow I think compared to Counterbalance and the general speeding up of the format by about a turn that Warren Instigator's just going to be a match on a fire.

Depends on how much Goblins can improve their percentages with the new toy. Instigator isn't just bad news because it is good against Solidarity but also because it makes Goblins a better deck and Goblins is not exactly Solidaritys favourite matchup. It's a really tough clock you're on.

[Nizmox]

Cards like Archive trap are going to be very easy to cast for free with so many fetches. Will be interesting to see if they see play coupled with extripates.

[MMogg]

Cards like Archive trap are going to be very easy to cast for free with so many fetches. Will be interesting to see if they see play coupled with extripates.

A lot of people seem to think that there will be more fetches, but I disagree completely. I think decks will run the same amount and just exchange allied for enemy coloured fetches in the appropriate decks.

[Van Phanel]

Depends on how much Goblins can improve their percentages with the new toy. Instigator isn't just bad news because it is good against Solidarity but also because it makes Goblins a better deck and Goblins is not exactly Solidaritys favourite matchup. It's a really tough clock you're on.

I'd always prefer playing against Goblins with Instigator over Goblins with Port and Odds are they won't (can't) play both.

@MMog: I could see some Counterbalancedecks running a 9th and maybe 10th blue Fetchland and there will be some other decks too, but your point stays very true.

[from Cairo]

A lot of people seem to think that there will be more fetches, but I disagree completely. I think decks will run the same amount and just exchange allied for enemy coloured fetches in the appropriate decks.

I could see a few decks running more, Zoo for instance, it maxed out on Windswept Heaths and Wooded Foothills as they could fetch any of the duals and the basics, but some lists added one or two Bloodstained Mire. With Arid Mesa seeing print this number may go up as it wouldn't be on par fetch with Foothills and Heath, and not as limiting as Mire was.

I agree it's not going to be staggeringly different, but I feel like a few decks might add a fetch or two to their total now that they have all color combinations available.

[SilverGreen]

Dear Wizards. I really hate you right now. Thanks for making absolutely no distinction between enemy and ally colors.


The Color Pentagram was born together with the Magic game itself, long before the advent of the Color Wheel. Back in the time, cards like Tsunami and Flashfires, Lifeforce and Deathgrip, White Knight and Black Knight demonstrate that the world wasn't harmonic in Alpha. The hostility among colors opposed in the Pentagram where evident, and the affinity among the adjacent colors became clear because of that.

But even with all the rivalry among colors, the original Dual Lands existed in all color combinations, allowing strategies the most diverse possible. Even so, people knew that blue and red dislike a lot one another, and that white and black were mortal enemies. More than the Color Wheel (that was far from existence by the time), the game's flavor helped define the relationships of affection and enmity among colors.

Because of that, and of the amazing varied environments we see nowadays in Eternal and post-Ravnica Constructed formats, with their open and diversified manabases, I believe that would be healthy for the game preserve that diversification status, keeping the wide open manabases and using the tools the Color Wheel grant us to teach the concept of ally and enemy colors to the new players.Thank you Wizards, I still love wide-open manabases (yet not at Vivids+Pool level) a lot. Very nice move!

[Happy Gilmore]

I could see a few decks running more, Zoo for instance, it maxed out on Windswept Heaths and Wooded Foothills as they could fetch any of the duals and the basics, but some lists added one or two Bloodstained Mire. With Arid Mesa seeing print this number may go up as it wouldn't be on par fetch with Foothills and Heath, and not as limiting as Mire was.

I agree it's not going to be staggeringly different, but I feel like a few decks might add a fetch or two to their total now that they have all color combinations available.


Most decks already run an optimal number of fetch lands. In a deck like Zoo I think your going to see an even more stable manabase with access to Arid Mesa. I'm probably going to test 4/3/2 Foothills/mesa/heath, and see how that goes. It does make building mana bases a bit more straightforward, and I guess, somewhat less fun to create.

[AngryTroll]

Scalding Tarns (the UR Fetch) is gorgeous. I guess I need some.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/zendikar/spoiler

[rockout]

Dang, you beat me to the punch. I absolutely love the picture of the UR fetch. I can't wait to see it in foil.

[Nightmare]

I still think mid-ocean ridge is a better name. Their picture is better, though.

[godryk]

Isn't anybody dissappointed it isn't called Unstable Geyser anymore?

[ACME_Myst]

Isn't anybody dissapointed it isn't called Unstable Geyser anymore?

You're right. Lets start a petition!

[Finn]

I don't know if this has been said, but I am predicting that this will make Threshold harder to mana disrupt since you can now reasonably carry one Forest. Jeez

[Amon Amarth]

Just a little FYI a 'tarn' is a Scandinavian word for a lake in a mountain.

[beastman]

If I played blue, I might care. Does any one have a link for the B/G one?

[Blitzbold]

Agreed, awesome picture for the U/R one.

[AngryTroll]

Just a little FYI a 'tarn' is a Scandinavian word for a lake in a mountain.

Yup, I looked up 'tarn' as soon as I saw the card. I actually like this name more than Unstable Geyser. I can't wait to see the BG one.

[Aggro_zombies]

Isn't anybody dissappointed it isn't called Unstable Geyser anymore?
I was looking forward to playing Canadian Threshold with Unstable Geyser and Misty Rainforest and making pornstar jokes. Goddammit Wizards.

[Henrik]

Just a little FYI a 'tarn' is a Scandinavian word for a lake in a mountain.

Vad tusan snackar du om, jag har aldrig hört ordet "tarn" i hela mitt liv! Någon som kan förtydliga? "Kärn" möjligtvis...

/scandinavian rant.

[Nihil Credo]

Vad tusan snackar du om, jag har aldrig hört ordet "tarn" i hela mitt liv! Någon som kan förtydliga? "Kärn" möjligtvis...

/scandinavian rant.

Hasty rant. "Skandinaviska" = "med skandinavisk roten". Enligt Wikipedia, "tarn" är engelska ordet som härstammar frå fornnordiska tjörn - och på svenska tjärn, på danska/norska tjern, och så vidare...

[ScatmanX]

Legal, vou começar a escrever em outras línguas também...

[AngryTroll]

Jeg visste ikke at det var så mange nordmenn i styrene .... eller hvordan å lese norsk.

[DragoFireheart]

Speak mother fucking English.

I wonder how much the U/G fetch is going to go for... Lets take a tally!

I say 30$ within the first 3 weeks.

[AngryTroll]

Playsets of Misty Rainforest are going for $74 on ebay, with shipping.

[Shanghi Knights]

Playsets of Misty Rainforest are going for $74 on ebay, with shipping.

and so the crazyness begins! Muwahahaha!

[Skeggi]

Jeg visste ikke at det var så mange nordmenn i styrene .... eller hvordan å lese norsk.
Translation:
I did not know there were so many Norwegians in the boards .... or how to read Norwegian.

With Google Translate, there is no language barrier. :cool:

Yeah yeah, I know it's offtopic, but there really isn't anything relevant to say ontopic. Enemy Fetches are coming. They'll be expensive. You want them. End of thread.

[Mantis]

That's about the same price as Delta and Strand are going for so it sounds fair. I actually think the blue ones will drop some in price and end up around $15 a piece and the others at $10-13.

[SilverGreen]

I preordered a playset each of the UG and BG ones, that are the ones I'll use most in the short term. $65 the last, $70 the former. And I see no reason for them drop in price now, at least for the next few months.


Speak mother fucking English.

Sujeitinho mais estressado... Além de não saber usar um tradutor, não tem o menor senso de humor.

[Skeggi]

<translation service>

Sujeitinho mais estressado... Além de não saber usar um tradutor, não tem o menor senso de humor.
Because it's directed at someone not knowing how a translator works: Google Translate comes up with this:

Fellow more stressed ... Besides not knowing how to use a translator, has no sense of humor.


</translation service>

I could go on and on in Dutch, but I won't. Because it sucks. And I don't mean speaking Dutch sucks. Speaking a different language on an English speaking board is simply childish. Good day :wink:

[sdematt]

I'm thinking the non-misty rainforest fetches will go for $13-16, unstable geyser (or whatever it's name is now) will be ~17 (like flooded strand) and misty will sit at 20, or a tad less (18 perhaps?). My $0.02.

-Matt

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

I think it'll be hard to predict their value in the short term because there's no way of knowing what will be best in the new standard. Sure looks like black will be good, but we just don't know enough yet.

[SilverGreen]

<translation service>

Because it's directed at someone not knowing how a translator works: Google Translate comes up with this:


</translation service>

I could go on and on in Dutch, but I won't. Because it sucks. And I don't mean speaking Dutch sucks. Speaking a different language on an English speaking board is simply childish. Good day :wink:I really don't know if it was a directed criticism too or a general advice, but just for the sake of clarity, I think the same. Unless it's a criticism, or a joke with a purpose (as was the case with all the previous non-English posts here, started kidding with the word "tarn", if I understood them correctly). So, if some "OMFGspeakfuckingenglishLOL!!!" guy has no sense of humor or didn't know how to read properly, I'm sorry, but in Portuguese it's the kind of thing we use to call "babaquice".

So, can we turn back to the unissued fetch land matter?

[Skeggi]

So, can we turn back to the unissued fetch land matter?

Which is ... ? As I said before, it's pretty clear. This thread is about as useful as a [SCD]Force of Will thread would be.

[jazzykat]

It's hard for me to believe that the new blue ones will be any less than strands, and will probably settle out about there too. There may be some normalization to decrease delta prices a little.

As to the other colors I'm not really sure. Is there such a demand for BW,BG, and RW (I guess for zoo...). I assume they will normalize at about ~$15 eventually.

Obviously Legacy demand will be a relatively small drop in the bucket.

[SilverGreen]

Which is ... ? As I said before, it's pretty clear. This thread is about as useful as a [SCD]Force of Will thread would be.You're totally right in this matter, no point here.

Incidentally, I still think a "[SCD] Moss Monster" could grow up with lots of cool and useful technical content, but unfortunatelly people doesn't share my sight... :P

[DrJones]

I used Moss Monster until they printed Silklash Spider, which is the most awesome card ever because it's a spider that eats dragons.

[Bardo]

The B/W fetch looks super hot too (not as cool as U/R though).

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95407&stc=1&d=1252987830

(Hrm, can't get the img tag to work.)

About the usefulness of this thread, meh, how often do we get to talk about actual enemy fetchlands?

[DragoFireheart]

The B/W fetch looks super hot too (not as cool as U/R though).

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95407&stc=1&d=1252987830

(Hrm, can't get the img tag to work.)

About the usefulness of this thread, meh, how often do we get to talk about actual enemy fetchlands?

Not often. Also, I think many people are underestimating the impact they will have for decks that want to run a couple basics to fight off Wastelands.

[morgan_coke]

What Drago said.

I mean, doesn't the ideal manabase (for multicolored decks) now essentially become:

6-8 fetches
4-6 duals
1-2 basics of each of your colors (4ish+ total)
0-4 utility lands

I think the biggest impact of the new fetches will be that wasteland will go from being a general source of mana denial to a source of hate for utility lands and bad manabases.

[ScatmanX]

I think the biggest impact of the new fetches will be that wasteland will go from being a general source of mana denial to a source of hate for utility lands and bad manabases.

And Mishra´s Factory, and Mutavaults, and other Wastelands, and Barbarian Ring, and Cabal Coffers, And City of Traitors, and Ancient Tomb, and Dust Bow, and Tolaria West, and lands from 43lands, combo decks, and zoo(my guess won´t use so many basics), and City of Brass, and Forsaken City, and artifact lands, and pendlehaven, and Dryad Arbor, and Cephalid Coliseum, and Gemstone mines, and Volrath's Stronghold, and Academy Ruins...

I mean, Wasteland will still have some good targets, right?

[godryk]

Yeah, and even if you're playing basics, you're never safe from manadenial. For instance, UGW decks take always risks by fetching basic forest or plains on first turns, as they cut you from getting blue mana. And assuming you will keep 2-land hands very often, you may not be able to get CB online soon. If you go for duals in order to be able to lay down CB on turn 2, you will be exposed to Wasteland. And of course you will keep on getting 2-dual hands. And we may consider as well that decks like Canadian often seek keeping you low on lands, no matter which colors they produce.

New fetchlands let you protect your manabase from waste-crucible or moon effects. I mean, you are less vulnerable to powerfull effects that punish you for an only-duals manabase, like Wasteland+Crucible, but you are still vulnerable to Wasteland as a tempo tool.

For example, testing Dreadstill VS Merfolk yesterday, I wished I could fetch a mountain, due to the huge amount of cards coming from the SB (Firesput, Bolt, even some REB) that will anal-rape him. The mountain would be able to save me when a topdecked Wasteland destroys my Volcanic Island in the mid to long game. But that mountain doesn't do too much when he ran over me just due to a well-timed Stifle/Wasteland giving him enough tempo to stomp me in very few turns.

[SilverGreen]

And Mishra´s Factory, and Mutavaults, and other Wastelands, and Barbarian Ring, and Cabal Coffers, And City of Traitors, and Ancient Tomb, and Dust Bow, and Tolaria West, and lands from 43lands, combo decks, and zoo(my guess won´t use so many basics), and City of Brass, and Forsaken City, and artifact lands, and pendlehaven, and Dryad Arbor, and Cephalid Coliseum, and Gemstone mines, and Volrath's Stronghold, and Academy Ruins...

I mean, Wasteland will still have some good targets, right?


I think the biggest impact of the new fetches will be that wasteland will go from being a general source of mana denial to a source of hate for utility lands and bad manabases.

[Skeggi]

About the usefulness of this thread, meh, how often do we get to talk about actual enemy fetchlands?
Well, you've got the rest of your life to talk about them.


I mean, doesn't the ideal manabase (for multicolored decks) now essentially become:

6-8 fetches
4-6 duals
1-2 basics of each of your colors (4ish+ total)
0-4 utility lands

That's already the ideal manabase for multicolored decks. In fact, some decks already run 12 fetches. Yes they'll loosen things up a bit, but there's no rocket science there.


I think the biggest impact of the new fetches will be that wasteland will go from being a general source of mana denial to a source of hate for utility lands and bad manabases.
Again, already the case.

The more you guys talk about it, the more I get the feeling they will hardly have any effect at all. Now that's not true, because we know they'll smooth things out for decks that use enemy colors. But it really isn't that big a deal.

[DragoFireheart]

The more you guys talk about it, the more I get the feeling they will hardly have any effect at all. Now that's not true, because we know they'll smooth things out for decks that use enemy colors. But it really isn't that big a deal.

Tarmogoyf wasn't a big deal when he came out.

[Blitzbold]

The more you guys talk about it, the more I get the feeling they will hardly have any effect at all. Now that's not true, because we know they'll smooth things out for decks that use enemy colors. But it really isn't that big a deal.

And some of the decks using enemy colors don't even want to use basic lands of their secondary or tertiary color...

[ScatmanX]

Some 2 color decks have acess to their 2 colors in the past, but chosen not to run basics (Rb, Rg, Rw goblins for instance).

Edit: yeah, DragonFireheart is right in the post below.
Ignore this.

[DragoFireheart]

Some 2 color decks have acess to their 2 colors in the past, but chosen not to run basics (Rb, Rg, Rw goblins for instance).

That's probably the worst example you could have used. Goblins usually do an extremely light splash for non-mana denial reasons.

Goblins is not a deck that has mana denial issues thanks to it being able to be viable as a mono colored deck and Aether Vial.

[Fons]

I'm not sure if anyone's preordered any fetches but I just ordered a playset yesterday from my local B&M store for $200. So $10 a piece. Has anyone else preordered any and for how much

[AngryTroll]

I'm not sure if anyone's preordered any fetches but I just ordered a playset yesterday from my local B&M store for $200. So $10 a piece. Has anyone else preordered any and for how much

Holy cow. Sign me up. Ebay wants $75 for a set of Misty Rainforest, $60 for four Scalding Tarns, and such. $10 << $15 each times 20 fetches.

[Fons]

Holy cow. Sign me up. Ebay wants $75 for a set of Misty Rainforest, $60 for four Scalding Tarns, and such. $10 << $15 each times 20 fetches.

seems my deal was better than I thought.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

Yea, I think you could/will make some money on that exchange.

There's no reason to think they will be that different in price from the current fetches, maybe a little more because they're in Standard.