Vintage! November 7th @ Jupiter Games in Upstate New York!!$500 Guaranteed!

[T-ORGANIZER]

Date
November 7th, 2009
(Saturday)

Host
Jupiter Games!
3701 Vestal Parkway East Suite 7
Vestal, New York 13850
(607)729-5910

Format
-Vintage
- Un-Sanctioned
- 25$ Registration Fee
- 15 Proxies Allowed
- Opening 9am
- Registration 10am
- Start at 11am

Judges
Eli Kassis - Level 1 - Tournament Organizer
Carl Winter& Ryan Green - Aspiring Level 1's

Prize Pool
If 1 person shows
1st - $200 Store Credit - $150 Cash Equivalant
2nd - $125 Store Credit - $ 100 Cash Equivalant
3rd/4th - $80 Store Credit - $60 Cash Equivalant
If 24 or more people show
5th-8th - $50 Store Credit - $35 Cash Equivalant

-We will be very lenient with proxies so people can bring out their pimpy looking cards if they like. Artist altereds are almost always okay at these types of events since they are unsanctioned just make sure they aren't easy to cheat with. Double sleeving usually solves this problem and we carry the small sleeve's if people need them.

-I'm taking a leap here and guaranteeing this prize pool based on 1 person showing up. This hurt me good last time, but after a year I am willing to give it another shot. If this tournament is a success prizes will be upped in my usual fashion (Mox thrown in as per usual) and it will be scheduled vintage tournaments more regularly (once every 6 weeks to start).

[The Pharmacist]

Yes I can't wait!

[Getsickanddie]

I'll be there.

[BiggestLegacyPlayerAlive]

I can't make this one, but am definitely interested in future tournaments, as I am now at 14 proxies, and after winning future vintage tourneys I'll get some mana drains and get to 10 proxies eventually.

[The Pharmacist]

I can't make this one, but am definitely interested in future tournaments, as I am now at 14 proxies, and after winning future vintage tourneys I'll get some mana drains and get to 10 proxies eventually.

Your never going to win if you play as bad as you did last week again. I'm not sure how you won anything.

[BiggestLegacyPlayerAlive]

I won something cause the deck I played is nuts and apparently doesn't need a pilot to win. I will however make a lot less mistakes the second time I play the deck.

[Brushwagg]

I'm going to try to make this one.

[T-ORGANIZER]

I can't make this one, but am definitely interested in future tournaments, as I am now at 14 proxies, and after winning future vintage tourneys I'll get some mana drains and get to 10 proxies eventually.

Thats good cause the next one I schedule after this one will probably be down to just 10 proxies. Then 5, then Sanctioned!

[Nightmare]

Thats good cause the next one I schedule after this one will probably be down to just 10 proxies. Then 5, then Sanctioned!

Bad idea. If you go to ten proxies, I may not play. If you go to five, or sanction it, I know I won't play.

[The Pharmacist]

Thats good cause the next one I schedule after this one will probably be down to just 10 proxies. Then 5, then Sanctioned!

Most people are not going to spend the money on power. It's going to be very hard to get a sanctioned vintage tournament.It would be nice if we did get one, but I just don't think it will happen.

[rocketrae21]

Thats good cause the next one I schedule after this one will probably be down to just 10 proxies. Then 5, then Sanctioned!


I dont think dropping below 10 is a good idea. It makes it super tough to play decks with power and such. I know I wouldnt be able to play. I think going to 10 would be sweet and then if you wanted do like up to 5 additional proxies at $1 a piece. I think you always need at least 10 though

[DownSyndromeKarl]

Minimum 10. Red Rocket the Dog Boner has a good idea, about charging for extra proxies. People either make innovative decks, fork out the money for better cards, or keep paying for extra proxies. Either way, people need to not be so cheap and lazy. Or they could show with complete jank and just have fun.

[T-ORGANIZER]

okay, the majority has it, never below 10. The 5 w/charge for up to 10 will be the lowest we go.

[rocketrae21]

okay, the majority has it, never below 10. The 5 w/charge for up to 10 will be the lowest we go.

my thought was if you wanted to go about 10 to do 10 with 5 charge up to 15. But I suppose you can do 5 to charge up to 10. Its really all your call. I just think from experience at vintage tournaments that 10 proxy is always nice and then if you want to change it to a higher amount charge people so its "more fair"

[BiggestLegacyPlayerAlive]

I agree that 10 should be the lowest you go and make those 10 free, that allows for the power 10 that almost every deck plays: 5 mox, lotus, recall, time walk, library, and either time vault or timetwister as most decks play one or the other.

[Brushwagg]

15 is perfect though. Not all of us have Mana Drains or the cash to get them with either.

[Getsickanddie]

10 for free I MIGHT play. 15 free I will always play.

[true story]

I see where you're going with this Eli, make the proxy count low so people buy power. Who are they gonna buy it from? Ka-Ching! If you go below 10 I may never come to another one of your tournaments again. If you wanted to hold one where the people with great jobs, spoiled rich pricks and drug dealers can play just have one with no proxies and see how well it works out. 10 is a good number, you can build something decent but it also forces you to think about picking up some power to make your deck even better. I think the next one should be 15 and the one after 10 with extra money for extra proxies. Type 1 is the best format in my opinion, but I can't play with less than 10 proxies because I'm poor.

[cdr]

BS. People who get power get it because they care about getting power and work at it. Though it's probably harder now, the vast majority of people I know with power were not remotely rich when they got it.

Also, too many proxies demonstratably harms Vintage long term - but go over to The Mana Drain if you want to argue about it.

[T-ORGANIZER]

I do want to emphasize that the proxies for this tournament is still 15 free and that is not going to change. While yes it does benefit me to reduce the # of proxies because people will have to purchase singles that is not the reason I had planned to reduce it. Over time as people come to these events it is my hope that they start to slowly trade for or pick up the cards they need to more complete their decks for future events. T1 is kind of nice in that the format doesn't shift very often and none of the power cards can be considered a bad investment.

It is not my intention to make these tournaments an elitist format for the rich only, but it is unfortunate that wizards won't let us sanction the tournament while still using proxies cause I think it gives our events more legitimacy. While reviewing everyone's arguments I can definitely agree that people need to be able to proxy at least 10 cards to at the bare minimum spare them the expense of shelling out over 3 grand on the power 9. After that most of the rest of the cards in Type 1 (Mana Drain, Library of Alexandria, Mana Crypt) can be considered comparable to the expense of many of the legacy staples (Grim Tutor, Imperial Recruiter, Tarmogoyf). Someone can make the argument that all the power and 4 workshops is still a great expense, but many people don't play imperial painter in legacy because they can't get the recruiters. However there are still plenty of other decks they can build that are just as viable in the format.

With these arguments in mind the next few type 1 tournaments I schedule (1st one Probably in January) will most likely be a proxy 10 free tournament, with 5 additional proxies costing $1 each. Then, in March most likely, it will be 5 free proxies and then $1 for each additional proxy up to 15. Then 5 free proxy additional 5 for $1 each (I won't go below that unless I get a majority of people requesting sanctioning).

[true story]

BS. People who get power get it because they care about getting power and work at it. Though it's probably harder now, the vast majority of people I know with power were not remotely rich when they got it.

Also, too many proxies demonstratably harms Vintage long term - but go over to The Mana Drain if you want to argue about it.

It's pretty hard to get power these days. Most of the people I know with power are bling whores and just want to show off. Few get it just so they can play Vintage. Some are both...

How does to many proxies harm Vintage? Is 10 considered to much? The BS to me is you saying it harms Vintage long term. Without proxies less people would play, meaning less will get hooked, less people would buy power, less people would buy other staples like Demonic Tutor, Yawg Will, Mana Crypt... Vintage would die long term without proxies to attract new players(and poor ones like me). True Story.

[Nightmare]

There's a pretty large debate on this issue, and I'd prefer it not spill over to this site. Let's keep the discussion focused on this event. Eli says 10 +$1 to 15. That's enough for now.

[T-ORGANIZER]

There's a pretty large debate on this issue, and I'd prefer it not spill over to this site. Let's keep the discussion focused on this event. Eli says 10 +$1 to 15. That's enough for now.

This coming one is free 15 just to reiterate.

One thing I will do is provide an additional prize for the highest ranking finisher with 0 proxies in their deck and I think that will help a little bit.

[true story]

How does that help? To me it sounds like rubbing it in that the poor people(me) can't afford power so they get the short end of the stick. So if you have a great job, are a spoiled rich prick, or a drug dealer you can win an additional prize for not being poor?! It sounds like an added incentive to buy power. I just hope it's not something ridiculously good prize, that would be unfair to the poor people(me).

Anyway I'm a Mana Crypt away from being at 10. I'll be there for the next couple Vintage tourneys most likely. When you go below 10 free proxies I'm done coming, barring some miracle where I get some power. True story.

[The Pharmacist]

Well you should start selling drugs or how about this crazy idea. GET A FUCKING JOB!!!

[true story]

Well you should start selling drugs or how about this crazy idea. GET A FUCKING JOB!!!

True story!

Or just quit magic...

[rocketrae21]

I never thought the proxy debate would be so heated. Everyone does have valid points but if it was a no proxy tournament I wouldnt play. Its not vintage if you cant run power. Its basically legacy with DT and Vamp. I think eventually going to 5 plus 5 additional per dollar or whatever will be fine. It gives incentive to pick up staples and maybe a piece of power. Win a tournament or two and put that prize support into a power fund

[true story]

For the record me a jap foil are boys and we enjoy talking shit to eachother so there's no heat there. He ain't saying shit he hasn't said 100 times already. As for the rest of the debate I ain't getting heated I'm just saying whats on my mind. I love Vintage as much as anybody, if me and my proxies have to stay home and play with ourselves so be it. True story.

[T-ORGANIZER]

Wanted to add that if more than 40 people show the prizes will increase dramatically. Probably by a Mox (not diamond or chrome promise) as we have done in the past.

[ShiftyKapree]

I can't make it to this one bc I already took the following week off for the BIG EVENT (which is gonna be mad fun)! I would play vintage with 10 proxies, I support lowering proxies and then lead to sanctioned events. Wish I could make it sry Eli

[T-ORGANIZER]

I can't make it to this one bc I already took the following week off for the BIG EVENT (which is gonna be mad fun)! I would play vintage with 10 proxies, I support lowering proxies and then lead to sanctioned events. Wish I could make it sry Eli

No worries, coming to the bigger event is more important anyway. Would be awesome if we could get it up to 200 people!

[rocketrae21]

No worries, coming to the bigger event is more important anyway. Would be awesome if we could get it up to 200 people!

Woah! Who says that its more important? I'm pretty sure we need to get your vintage scene up and running. Legacy is doing just fine!

But seriously I would probably pick the larger event also if I could only play in one

[The Pharmacist]

Wanted to add that if more than 40 people show the prizes will increase dramatically. Probably by a Mox (not diamond or chrome promise) as we have done in the past.

If 40 or more show up could you make it Mox Jet?

[Nightmare]

After splitting for 1st on Saturday, I picked up a Ruby from Eli. 1 less proxy, at no cost! I could easily make it under 10 now, and that's with little to nothing invested in the format. Hell yes.

[T-ORGANIZER]

I'll give everyone a vote on the mox from whatever we have 2 or more of in stock. Which currently would be everything except ruby cause Adam just got one. However I am currently in the process of trying to pick up more power now that we are running type 1's.

[The Pharmacist]

I need a lotus!

[rocketrae21]

I wish I had the cash to put down on power or even the cards to trade in and still be able to keep a decent staple of cards

[DownSyndromeKarl]

I wish I had the cash to put down on power or even the cards to trade in and still be able to keep a decent staple of cards

you're in college, start pushin dope. do it for a semester or two then stop. thats how dad did it, thats how america does it.

[T-ORGANIZER]

It's also much easier to repick up staples then power. Sometimes thats the right trade.

[rocketrae21]

Eli, You have a solid point but to pick up a mox or something not a timetwister I need to get rid of like everything. I need my dual lands and tundras and I really dont have much more in value to get rid of. I dont have a set of LEDs or any extra duals. I need to win a tournament or something. Plus I did just buy a beta time vault so its not like I'm completely poor

Karl...I like your style but not your ways of making money. I wouldn't even know how to push dope. I would most likely get arrested the first day then by cards turn into bail money. Not a good idea

[Space Ghost]

Even though I absolutely sucked at your last Type 1 tourney I should make this one. I have 2 decks built with 10 proxies each. I just have to earn some money.

[The Pharmacist]

Even though I absolutely sucked at your last Type 1 tourney I should make this one. I have 2 decks built with 10 proxies each. I just have to earn some money.

If you want to earn some money. You can come over and give me head. LOL!

[Space Ghost]

You know how I know you're gay? You're on a Magic team. How bout you lick the bald spot on the bottom of my sack?

[rocketrae21]

This ever get posted on TMD? I can't check it at work so I'm just curious

[T-ORGANIZER]

This ever get posted on TMD? I can't check it at work so I'm just curious

I believe Carl did it, but a double check couldn't hurt.

[rocketrae21]

You going to be playing in this tourney Eli? I know how you like to jump in the vintages just wasnt sure if you would for this one

[whiteshepherdman]

Man do i wish i lived in New York right now.... Jupiter Games is like the best place for legacy

[T-ORGANIZER]

Man do i wish i lived in New York right now.... Jupiter Games is like the best place for legacy

Tyvm, I may just play in the type 1, not sure yet. Do you not want me to?

[rocketrae21]

I don't see why not. It seems like you enjoy the format and with it being non sanctioned you can play in it. I guess its really up to you. I know I wont get upset if you play in it

[The Pharmacist]

Tyvm, I may just play in the type 1, not sure yet. Do you not want me to?

No don`t play!! I can never beat you lol

[rocketrae21]

No don`t play!! I can never beat you lol

Maybe if you were a better player...:eyebrow:

[The Pharmacist]

Maybe if you were a better player...:eyebrow:

not cool

[rocketrae21]

not cool

Ah i'm just messing. I know Eli is good but I think I have only played him once in vintage.

[Nightmare]

The only way I'd be upset that Eli played is if he won. Pass through your prizes?

[The Pharmacist]

So how many people are going to this. I know I have a few coming down with me.

[T-ORGANIZER]

The only way I'd be upset that Eli played is if he won. Pass through your prizes?

In the past I have slided down my prizes, every time in fact, but I also count my participation as part of the attendance that goes into the prizes which has technically been unfair to me since I'm paying, but automatically lose. I have no problem not playing if that's what anyone wants, I won't take any offense if people want to tell me anonymously that's okay too.

[Space Ghost]

Fuck that, I think you should play if you want. If anyone has a problem it's because they don't want to play you. I've always heard you're a great player and from the few times I've seen you play I agree. To be the best you gotta beat the best so I want you to play. T.S.

[T-ORGANIZER]

Fuck that, I think you should play if you want. If anyone has a problem it's because they don't want to play you. I've always heard you're a great player and from the few times I've seen you play I agree. To be the best you gotta beat the best so I want you to play. T.S.

Tyvm, well articulated imo.

[Jim Higginbottom]

Eli if you want to play you should play and if you win you should keep your prize...what's fair is fair. Just don't manually pair yourself. :)

[T-ORGANIZER]

Eli if you want to play you should play and if you win you should keep your prize...what's fair is fair. Just don't manually pair yourself. :)

I would be playing to play, cheating would be the furthest thing from my mind and be totally not the point anyway.

[T-ORGANIZER]

Everyone Psyched for this Saturday?

[The Pharmacist]

Hell yes I am!!!!!! I`ll have 3 with me

[TheBirdMan]

Anyone near rochester going to this?

[rocketrae21]

Def ready for this tourney. Eli find me an imperial seal

[The Pharmacist]

Even tho not many people showed up to this. It`s was still a ton of fun,and I hope still you still hold more vintage tournaments.

[J.V.]

What won this?

[The Pharmacist]

Eli and Tariq.

[beastman]

What were they playing?

[rocketrae21]

Eli always plays some homebrew deck. Tariq was playing Dark Tez

[Jim Higginbottom]

How many people?

[rocketrae21]

Sadly only 9 people showed

[Jim Higginbottom]

I'm sorry to hear that...I can really only take off to go upto NY once a month though and this month I can't even do that as I'm attending a wedding on the 14th.

[rocketrae21]

Yeah but there was other tournaments going on plus I think a lot of people were more concernced with making the legacy this weekend. Thats why none of my team showed even 3 of them like vintage better