Penalty Question

[Kuma]

Player A and Player B are playing game three of a match. During the game while Player A is searching his library, he realizes that he shuffled in a creature he took with Sower of Temptation during game two. He immediately points this out and both players are unsure how to proceed.

Is one player at fault here? Or are both responsible since they both presented illegal decks (Player B's had 59 cards and Player A had one of his opponent's cards in his). What are the appropriate penalties in this situation, and how does the game proceed?

[TheBirdMan]

I believe they would get game losses each, along the lines of Presenting an illegal deck.

[Valtrix]

The above is almost correct, but it also depends on the level of the tournament...


2.2. Deck Error — Deck/Decklist Mismatch

A player is considered to have a mismatch when the contents of their deck do not match their decklist.

Examples:
1. A player is playing with 59 cards in her deck when the minimum is 60. Her decklist indicates a legal deck with 60 cards.
2. A player has a Pacifism in his deck from a previous opponent. His decklist indicates a legal deck.

Penalty --
Regular == warning
Competitive == game
Professional == game

The player must make any changes necessary to make the contents of the deck match what is recorded on the decklist. If the game is to continue, replace all illegal cards with their legal counterparts (including random cards from the deck for any illegal cards in hand) and shuffle the randomized portion of the deck. If this is not possible, due to the illegal card being in a public zone or in a non-randomized portion of the deck, upgrade the penalty to a Game Loss.

If a player discovers his or her error upon drawing an opening hand and calls a judge at that point, the Head Judge may downgrade the penalty (at Competitive or Professional REL), fix the deck, and allow the player to redraw the hand with one fewer card. The player may continue to take further mulligans if he or she wishes.

[TheBirdMan]

Ha, I was just about to edit my post with the same thing, I guess you beat me :tongue:

[AngryTroll]

Is this one of the rare cases where game four is played to determine the match winner?

How is that recorded into the match software; will it let you enter a win 2-2 and a loss 1-3?

[luma]

This is how simultaneous game losses are handled:

If it was game 2 (1-0 before that game), then the score after game losses for both players would be 2-1, and the winner of the first game wins the match.

If it was game 3 (1-1), the score would be 2-2 and the match will be a draw, since the number of wins (2) required to end the match was reached but both players have two wins.

Edit: a fourth game will be played if, for example, the third game is a tie for some reason (Earthquake killing both players?). Then the score is 1-1-1 and a fourth game is played (if there's still time). Of course, if that game is also a tie, the match goes on to the fifth game and so on...

[AngryTroll]

I am pretty sure it would be considered a draw game if it is game 3 there is no fourth game. It would go into the system as 1-1 tie

Back in the old day, Dragon players could draw the game with an infinite (not arbitrarily large, but infinite) loop and move onto the next game if things got ugly for them. How does this relate to this situation? Is it different than this one?

I think it's the first person to win two games wins the match, no matter how many games end in a draw or how many games they lose. Is this correct?

[cdr]

Valtrix got the penalty right; neither player's deck would now match his list, and so they both get a game loss.


Is this one of the rare cases where game four is played to determine the match winner?

How is that recorded into the match software; will it let you enter a win 2-2 and a loss 1-3?

luma got the other part; since a loss for one person is a win for the other, the score would be 2-1 if a double game loss occurs in game two.

Matches are played to two wins; there can only be at most two game wins per player, and any number of drawn games.

[AngryTroll]

For some reason I didn't see Luma's post earlier; thanks for clearing it up.

I didn't realize that a game loss for one person counted as a win for the other in cases like that. Thanks for clearing that up, both of you!