Dear Legacy Ban List

[Xanthophobia22]

Dear Legacy Ban List,

I know we havent really talked in a while, and its made things awkward for both of us. I just feel like your not doing for me what you should be and Im also not doing right by you. Why dont you sit down and lets talk this over ban list.

Right now you look like this:
* Amulet of Quoz
* Ancestral Recall
* Balance
* Bazaar of Baghdad
* Black Lotus
* Black Vise
* Bronze Tablet
* Channel
* Chaos Orb
* Contract from Below
* Darkpact
* Demonic Attorney
* Demonic Consultation
* Demonic Tutor
* Dream Halls
* Earthcraft
* Entomb
* Falling Star
* Fastbond
* Flash
* Frantic Search
* Goblin Recruiter
* Grim Monolith
* Gush
* Hermit Druid
* Illusionary Mask
* Imperial Seal
* Jeweled Bird
* Land Tax
* Library of Alexandria
* Mana Crypt
* Mana Drain
* Mana Vault
* Memory Jar
* Metalworker
* Mind Twist
* Mind's Desire
* Mishra's Workshop
* Mox Emerald
* Mox Jet
* Mox Pearl
* Mox Ruby
* Mox Sapphire
* Necropotence
* Oath of Druids
* Rebirth
* Shahrazad
* Skullclamp
* Sol Ring
* Strip Mine
* Tempest Efreet
* Time Spiral
* Time Vault
* Time Walk
* Timetwister
* Timmerian Fiends
* Tinker
* Tolarian Academy
* Vampiric Tutor
* Wheel of Fortune
* Windfall
* Worldgorger Dragon
* Yawgmoth's Bargain
* Yawgmoth's Will

Ok, so magic was once a bettin mans game and thats all well and good so these cards or course make total sense:

Amulet of Quaz
Bronze Tablet
Contract from Below
Darkpact
Demonic Attorney
Jeweled Bird
Tempest Efreet
Timmerian Fiends
Rebirth

Now heres some stuff im not so sure about:

Dream Halls
Yes, dream halls is really really good. I even built a deck to test it and you could play a conflux and get brilliant ultimatum and then play sins of the past... oh man... but guess what for BB3 you can draw your deck in legacy so I dont think dream halls would be by any means a better combo than the already existing best combo deck ANT.

Black Vise
Im sure there was a time in legacy where people could actually be "denied out of a game" and would be left with many cards in hand, but no more. Granted if my opponent dropped this turn one and I was playing landstill id be worried but aether vial would be just as devestating and so would a top. All any deck would have to do in answer to this turn one bolt is play land, card, pass. then if you destroyed my land id take 2, then im sure id be fine for the rest of the game. with this one i could be wrong and there might just be the sickest deck ever made to abuse this card but I think its a safe and good answer to control decks.

Entomb
Worldgorger dragon is banned. Nothing else is that great a target. Let legacy players that love to play reanimator have there day in the sun... they will still lose the tournament because they are playing reanimator...

Frantic Search
Solidarity and springtide havent been good decks for a while and I cant think of many decks that would be thrilled to run this. In any fair deck this gets dazed a lot and is card disadvantage regardless of being free that seems like it would only ever be good in survival.

Hermit Druid
Dredge and Cephalid Breakfast do this better and you can run lands... and goyfs.... and a real deck. done.

Mind Twist
It got unrestricted in vintage and guess what nobody plays 4. This card would never be good in legacy so it should be unbanned.

Time Spiral
See Dream Halls. I tried for hours to build a deck that could abuse it and its just not good. Other combo is so much better and this card doesnt fit in any current combo decks.

Windfall
I dont think drawing less than 7 is all that great for 3 mana and legacy combo decks never like draw 7s anyways.

Now lets talk about some additions. Legacy has seen some unhealthy developments lately and thats never good. I love the format and care for it deeply and I dont want it to go bad.

Counterbalance
Im going to say it straight up this card is better than ancestral recall. It gains card advantage at little cost to the owner via top and is a reusable counterspell that is completely one-sided. Chalice of the Void is a fair version of the card but this is too much, besides making the gamestate unfun it warps the meta since everyone is either running counterbalance or actively struggling to deal with it. Pretty much every legacy player with more than 5 years experience wants this card banned, even people who play it. I own 4 copies myself.

Brainstorm
Wait! put down those pitchforks magic players hear me out. After this card was restricted in Vintage I got to thinking and realized that brainstorm warps the meta more than counterbalance. Because consistantcy is so important in legacy, and since brainstorm is blue there is far too much blue in legacy. Therefore nobody will ever be moved to play a RG deck with goyf when they could just play a UG version and draw goyfs more often. Also the ability to shuffle away cards with a fetch makes this card like recall- a fresh 3 cards. I think thats unfair to other colors. Even though draw is what blue does I think brainstorm is too much. Once again, I know its good and fun and makes your game so much smoother and I totally own 4 chinese MM brainstorms so Im not a hater.

Other than that I dont see anything else we need to talk about here legacy. Lets try to be better on the next ban list cycle buddy!

If I posted this in the wrong section feel free to move me

[Mr.C]

Not brainstorm, please. I don't want to see $200 strategic planning.

[Tacosnape]

One day, somebody is going to be watching an episode of Criminal Minds based on my life story, and it's going to be about 35 minutes into the episode when they figure out that everybody I killed was somebody who decided to write over 1000 words explaning why they understand the banned list for Legacy better than everybody at wizards and those who play Legacy. Of course, nobody will really care, because Criminal Minds sucks without Mandy Patinkin, but I digress.

As for Counterbalance being better than Ancestral Recall, as soon as they unban Recall, I'll trade you my set of Counterbalances for them. And all my duals and fetches that don't have Blue. And my cat.

[emidln]

One day, somebody is going to be watching an episode of Criminal Minds based on my life story, and it's going to be about 35 minutes into the episode when they figure out that everybody I killed was somebody who decided to write over 1000 words explaning why they understand the banned list for Legacy better than everybody at wizards and those who play Legacy. Of course, nobody will really care, because Criminal Minds sucks without Mandy Patinkin, but I digress.

As for Counterbalance being better than Ancestral Recall, as soon as they unban Recall, I'll trade you my set of Counterbalances for them. And all my duals and fetches that don't have Blue. And my cat.

I'll do one better and offer to trade you my set of counterbalances, nonblue duals, and nonblue fetches plus Tacosnape's cat for a set of Ancestral Recalls.

[AngryTroll]

Just unbanning Entomb might be enough to knock blue down a notch without banning Brainstorm and Counterbalance.

[Hanni]

I don't think Brainstorm or Counterbalance is the card to neuter. Brainstorm is very good, but it's fair. While a fetch does create large card quality, it doesn't actually put 3 cards in your hand, it just cantrips. Without Top, Counterbalance is a totally fair card.

The only card I think that is banworthy is Top. It's just rediculously good, being able to continually create card quality every turn for such little investment is very high up on the power level. That, and it enables Counterbalance, and obviously CounterTop is a very powerful combination.

However, the format seems pretty healthy right now, so I don't see a reasont to ban anything.

I can see quite a bit of cards coming off the list, however.

[Volt]

Wait a second... Counterbalance is better than Ancestral Recall, but Brainstorm warps the meta more than Counterbalance? So, that would mean Brainstorm > Ancestral Recall? Hmm.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

you do realize that you can run lands with druid? just not basic ones. and that makes him kinda good.

[jazzykat]

CB better than ancestral recall? Good thing I picked up a spare for under 300 years ago. I'm on my way to a playset! BTW I'll trade 8 CB for someone's recall because they're really not that good anyway.

[CrazyMYKL]

Why does no-one mention Earthcraft as a candidate for unbanning? I can't see it being used in any format-distorting manner.

[Ozymandias]

Because it turns Elves! into a nightmare.

[Elfrago]

Everything Taco said is (as always) right.
Also, unbanning Windfall is a serius mistake, just ask the combo player next door.

[lorddotm]

Dude,

Why didn't you say unban Yawgmoth's Will, its not that good.

[Amon Amarth]

A couple weeks ago I wrote a letter to Mr Lapille (probably should have been MaGo, but I digress) detailing cards I thought were innocuous and could be OK to let loose and roam Legacy once more. To summarize, all the creatures sans Recruiter were fine, bad Enchantments like Land Tax, or Dream Halls were good to go and one or two other things were harmless too. Then you get to things that are borderline and require testing like Mind Twist and Black Vise. I honestly don't have time to test all that stuff but it is worth mentioning there are numerous cards like Twist whose power level is unknown.

[Nihil Credo]

The other thread is now sticky, so stick to that.

(Everything is healthier if B&R discussions stay in their place rather than spontaneously multiplying beyond control and killing the F&AD forum. Oh shoot, is that a thinly veiled metaphor for anything?)