[B&R] UNBANNED - Metalworker, Dream Halls and Entomb

[BKclassic]

Metalworker, Dream Halls and Entomb are all unbanned.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/56d

/// UPDATING OP ///

LaPille's pithy comments about the Legacy B&R update.


September 19 B&R Announcement

As we announced today, we have chosen to unban Dream Halls, Entomb, and Metalworker in Legacy. - Bardo

Entomb and Dream Halls are legal in Magic Online's Classic format and have not been problematically powerful, and we believe that they may enable new Legacy decks. We believe that Metalworker will strengthen artifact-based decks, but we also think that the efficient creature removal in Legacy will keep the card from being too powerful.

Latest research from the Center for Really Obvious Things.

[THEchubbymuffin]

Yet land tax still is. I am so confuzzled.

[beastman]

Oh noez!!!1! It's the end of the world2!!1! Entomb in ichorid >Legacy.

[workingdude]

Wow. Entomb.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

That's something. At least they're starting to grow a pair on this changing the list thing.

[mOxMoNgEr]

Yet land tax still is. I am so confuzzled.

How care?We have entomb!Welcome my little vampiric tutor!

[Leftconsin]

Too bad the explanation section of LD is displeasingly short again. Three cards, two sentences.

BUT! Now we get Metalworker combos to play with. I'm excited.

[Barook]

Metalworker is pretty interesting, especially with 8 2-mana land around.

How relevant is the unbanning of Entomb for Ichorid?

[Otter]

Too bad the explanation section of LD is displeasingly short again. Three cards, two sentences.

Agreed, though I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, but their explanations were a bit lackluster and bothersome. "lolz it's fine in classic" isn't exactly a great demonstration of their insight into legacy. It couldn't have been that hard to write a full paragraph.

Whatever, I'll be sure to have some fun with Entomb and bad Dreamhalls combos.

[troopatroop]

This is fucking FANTASTIC! Thank god they finally changed the ban list, and we can all agree that that is a breath of fresh fucking air. Metalworker probably makes Stax alot better, along with something like KCI. They're paying attention!

[4eak]

Finally, a little upheaval would be nice.

I hope they start to liberally take stuff off the banned list.



peace,
4eak

[Linkin Pac]

Entomb definitely needed to be removed from the list, there is too much graveyard hate today to warrant it being banned. Plus this gives a lot of decks (Reanimator) a fighting chance.

[Tacosnape]

Metalworker won't exactly roll over this format. It was a fairly safe unban.

Entomb is going to shake things up a lot, though, and you might all be picking the wrong deck. Loam decks, whether Aggro Loam or 43 Land, are going to scream for joy at this. I'll be assembling a black splash 42 land immediately, letting it demonic tutor for everything from Loam itself to Ray of Revelation to Ancient Grudge to what have you.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Metalworker won't exactly roll over this format. It was a fairly safe unban.

Entomb is going to shake things up a lot, though, and you might all be picking the wrong deck. Loam decks, whether Aggro Loam or 43 Land, are going to scream for joy at this. I'll be assembling a black splash 42 land immediately, letting it demonic tutor for everything from Loam itself to Ray of Revelation to Ancient Grudge to what have you.

Isnt gamble better? Its on color and doesnt care if you keep or discard it for everything it would tutor up (ex. Loam, grudge, ray etc. dont care if they are in hand or grave)

[Zinch]

Isnt gamble better? Its on color and doesnt care if you keep or discard it for everything it would tutor up (ex. Loam, grudge, ray etc. dont care if they are in hand or grave)

Yes, you're right. Gamble is better. On the other side, it can act as gamble 5-8, but I don't think it is needed.

I think this unban will help the Reanimator decks, but I don't know if this will be enough to make it competitive...

[Otter]

I think this unban will help the Reanimator decks, but I don't know if this will be enough to make it competitive...

It could get a lot of help from the new Ionia (or whatever the hell her name is) chick that prevents spells of the color you choose from being played. It probably doesn't change the core issue of how reanimator is an inferior version of Ichorid that looses to the same hate cards, but whatever.

[lorddotm]

Yes, you're right. Gamble is better. On the other side, it can act as gamble 5-8, but I don't think it is needed.

I think this unban will help the Reanimator decks, but I don't know if this will be enough to make it competitive...

T1 Rit, Entomb-->Iona, Animate Dead/Renaimate

Very possible, and with Force back up it seems pretty sexy

[AngryTroll]

Sweet. I just ordered a set of Entombs. I love that card, but didn't think I'd ever get to play it in Legacy again!

It probably still doesn't make Reanimator a very good deck, but all forms of Loam decks got better, and Ichorid is certainly better now as well.

[morgan_coke]

So why is Land Tax still banned again?

I really want to shove it and Winds of Change into zoo. I know its not a good deck, but it is fun.

Entomb makes Reanimator playable again, but between Edict, StP, Daze, Force, and Crypt, I don't think it'll be a huge problem.

[TheDarkshineKnight]

I'm beginning to believe that the DCI isn't unbanning Land Tax because they feel like playing some wacky joke on us.

[tyleredw]

So who else is thinking of making a jank ass Dream Halls/Conflux deck? :)

[Volt]

Trollandtoad has Entombs for 9.99 each right now.

[hungryLIKEALION]

So who else is thinking of making a jank ass Dream Halls/Conflux deck? :)
I did that in vintage right after Conflux came out, it was hilarious and bad.

[Clark Kant]

Fuck yeah.

Now Land Tax (and possibly Black Vise and Earthcraft and maybe even Grim Monolith or even Mind Twist) just needs to come off the list and it'll be close to perfect.

[Amon Amarth]

Fucking Christmas in July. This is badass and I got even more than what I had asked for! Now we can all start talking about the number of artifacts needed to support Metalworker or the most broken Entomb deck. Oh fuck yes.

Oh uh... yeah, about Dream Halls...welcome back or something.

[(nameless one)]

I think the reason why Land Tax wasn't unbanned because according to the Preview Article on the MtG page, they blatantly said that they're not a fan of shuffling effects and Fetchlands on Zendikar was pushing it. I want Land Tax to be unbanned too :(

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Yay!

[Clark Kant]

I think the reason why Land Tax wasn't unbanned because according to the Preview Article on the MtG page, they blatantly said that they're not a fan of shuffling effects and Fetchlands on Zendikar was pushing it. I want Land Tax to be unbanned too :(

This is Legacy, not Standard.

We already have a million shuffle effects, we couldn't care less.

[Otter]

I think the reason why Land Tax wasn't unbanned because according to the Preview Article on the MtG page, they blatantly said that they're not a fan of shuffling effects and Fetchlands on Zendikar was pushing it. I want Land Tax to be unbanned too :(

I can't imagine that this matters for Legacy. We already have a niche card that causes stupid amounts of shuffling to occur when it is used: Survival of the Fittest. I don't see how Land Tax would be any different. Just keep yelling at them to unban Land Tax -- if enough of us do it, they'll cave in eventually.

[Antonius]

I've never played with Dream Halls but I certainly want to now.

I think a spring tide-type variant might be an appropriate home for it? :confused:

[Arctic_Slicer]

Without the mandatory shuffling of your library a dozen times per match it just wouldn't be Legacy. Besides Land Tax would only add more shuffling to the format if it actually got played which it wont as Life From the Loam does what Land Tax does better.

[The_Red_Panda]

Isnt gamble better? Its on color and doesnt care if you keep or discard it for everything it would tutor up (ex. Loam, grudge, ray etc. dont care if they are in hand or grave)

Gamble has a fairly good chance of making you pitch something you DON'T want to pitch, IE, a card in your hand that isn't loam/ray/ect. That's why you'd Entomb them.

[KillemallCFH]

Well, I guess Wizards is doing something right. Before Zendikar spoilers and this I was bored as fuck with Legacy. Now I can't wait to play again.

Guess I'm off to go make some janky creations involving Entomb and/or Metalworker.

[SilverGreen]

I don't care about the Halls (never liked it, still don't think it's good, nor think it'll have any impact in the format) nor Entomb (that'll be played, but just it), but Metalworker is driving me crazy! I have been in love with this card since the first time it was spoiled almost a millenia ago, I played A LOT with it, and for sure I'll play a lot with it again. Fortunatelly, my old and proudly EX+ playset are still laid into the front page of my artifact binder.

[Skeggi]

Legacy will go crazy all over the world. I'm uncertain if the outcome is good or bad, but with Zendikar coming, I think it'll all be ok :smile:. I just bought my sets of Entomb, Dream Halls and Metalworker before the prices skyrocket.

If these unbannings will proof to be a good step, more unbannings will be on their way.

[Aggro_zombies]

Dream Halls and Metalworker are both bad, or help bad decks to be slightly less bad.

Entomb, on the other hand, might be interesting. I don't think it fits into or even belongs in any of the current crop of good decks, but there is a possibility it could enable something new, possibly some sort of more controlling Loam variant. I don't think it belongs in Aggro Loam.

[Koby]

My take on Dream Halls:

Conflux is fancy, and defninitly not competitive enough.

Cruel Ultimatum just barely breaks the symmetry. Myojin of the Seeing Winds is really redonkulous with Dream Halls, and yes it does get the Divinity counter.

The monoblue version splashing black for Ultimatum and Tendrils is sufficient to do well, albeit a bit slow since it has to resole a 5cc enchantment.

[Aggro_zombies]

My take on Dream Halls:

Conflux is fancy, and defninitly not competitive enough.

Cruel Ultimatum just barely breaks the symmetry. Myojin of the Seeing Winds is really redonkulous with Dream Halls, and yes it does get the Divinity counter.

The monoblue version splashing black for Ultimatum and Tendrils is sufficient to do well, albeit a bit slow since it has to resole a 5cc enchantment.
Krosan Grip much?

[Otter]

My take on Dream Halls:

Conflux is fancy, and defninitly not competitive enough.

Cruel Ultimatum just barely breaks the symmetry. Myojin of the Seeing Winds is really redonkulous with Dream Halls, and yes it does get the Divinity counter.

The monoblue version splashing black for Ultimatum and Tendrils is sufficient to do well, albeit a bit slow since it has to resole a 5cc enchantment.

Though I may be missing something key as I haven't actually tested anything, I'm not sure why you would call Conflux fancy and then suggest Cruel and Myojin. If you resolve Conflux, you should be able to win pretty much on the spot (go get Magister Sphynx, Searing Wind, Force of Will, 2 more Conflux for random pitching purposes). How is that inferior to Crueling them and having to go find another way to actually win the game? It's not like it's unlikely to draw Conflux either, you can Intution for it if needed. Seems like if you're going to go to the effort of getting Dream Halls out, it should really be sealing the game up on the spot.

[Noman Peopled]

Fuck. First I get robbed on vacation, then I return to learn that I'm gonna have to get fetchlands, and now Entombs.
Oh well. Very nice to see some movement, although I still fail to see why Tax is on there.

Dream Halls should at least be fun. One- or two-of in a niche capacity, maybe. I could see it in Enchantress as a way to make sure you can keep going off, but my experience with Enchantress is sorely lacking. Or in a Spring Tide type deck with E Tutor, although you still need accel to go off even t4. You could cut all the crappy untap effects but you'd lose the Mystical toolbox. Doesn't scare me.

Metalworker is harder to evaluate but I'm gonna go with crappy right now. Yes, it can be a two-card combo but we already have a whole bunch of those. As support, it's kind of fragile and as a strategy, it's unreliable because we have little else that could play redundancy. Without [big spell], Metalworker's dead. Without Metalworker, [big spell] is dead.
An even if it's playable, it's fragile enough that I wouldn't worry. We had to deal with t1 Lackeys all the time; Metalworker's easy, especially with everybody already playing Grip.

Entomb, of course, is the doozy. I can think of quite a few applications right off the bat, as did everybody else.
Dredge is a no-brainer testing candidate, since I already have the deck lying around ;) I may finally be able to cut a few dredgers and try a more controllish approach.
As for Gamble, I don't know; at least with Entomb you will always know what you get. Gamble can and occasionally does kill a card in your hand that you need. It can put stuff in your hand though. I'll definitely test Entomb instead because it's instant speed and can get Worm's Harvest as well as Raven's Crime.
Reanimator's gonna love it since it'll help steal many more games. There's a huge difference between needing Entomb/Reanimate and Study/Reanimate/fatty. Still, it's only four cards, not enough to make the deck stable.
Hell, it can enable IGG. Looking for a better combo approach, though ...
I'm not sure if any of these ideas will work out, but it's definitely got the best chances of the three.

[georgjorge]

How about some Tendrils variant based around Entomb (for Magus of the Jar) + Shallow Grave ? I've built this deck on MWS some time ago, and found that chaining multiple Draw7s was rather good (after the first Entomb, each further Shallow Grave you draw gets you seven new cards).

Whatever applications are going to get used, combo (in a general sense, including Ichorid) will certainly get stronger from those unbannings.

[Aggro_zombies]

How about some Tendrils variant based around Entomb (for Magus of the Jar) + Shallow Grave ? I've built this deck on MWS some time ago, and found that chaining multiple Draw7s was rather good (after the first Entomb, each further Shallow Grave you draw gets you seven new cards).

Whatever applications are going to get used, combo (in a general sense, including Ichorid) will certainly get stronger from those unbannings.
As I recall, these decks had too many problems to be good, such as rolling over and dying to Pithing Needle, counters on Shallow Grave, graveyard hate, drawing your opponents more Forces, and being slower than conventional storm.

It's going to need to be some sort of new deck, I think. Loam is the most obvious application, but Intuition is probably more flexible and in a better color.

Entomb seems good, but will probably not end up finding a home.

[BreathWeapon]

Gamble has a fairly good chance of making you pitch something you DON'T want to pitch, IE, a card in your hand that isn't loam/ray/ect. That's why you'd Entomb them.

Entomb sends Genesis straight to the graveyard, that's pretty huge IMO.

[sco0ter]

It is quite funny to read this thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13531) about the possible unbanning of Entomb again...

some quotes:



Too cheap.
Too instant.



However, I believe the potential harms outweigh any benefits the unbanning may have.



No, it would make dredge too poweful. 4 Entomb gives the deck way too much power to trash faster than all others.



This card isn't going to come off of the banned list anytime soon. [...]
Honestly I would expect to see Necropotence and Library of Alexandria unbanned before we ever seen Entomb unbannd; the card is that powerful.



No way. If Entomb is unbanned, I would go.



Unban Entomb? No, please. It's broken.



Entomb is too fast and too good for Legacy.

[beastman]

Trollandtoad has Entombs for 9.99 each right now.

Bahahahahaaha.

[Mr. Fix it]

everything else is going crazy with some of the newer cards turning the format on its head. (that sounds a little extreme than i intend) why not let some of the old school stuff back into the mix for some real fun? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

glad i nabbed up extra entombs for some BS in casual.

Metalworker will be interesting. i know some guy had a mono brown aggro deck thread here, this probably will give it some serious gas to run off of which it just doesn't seem to have.

what are we gunna do with dream halls? cast a progenitus with it? or Warp world? coalition victory? maelstrom nexus? etc?

[Anusien]

Entomb was a $10 card even several weeks ago.

[Mr. Fix it]

i don't think they will go any hire than this on starcity. besides i see them cheaper in most store fronts anyhow.

http://sales.starcitygames.com/search.php?substring=entomb&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go

[FoolofaTook]

Yet land tax still is. I am so confuzzled.

There are so many questions about how Land Tax would effect the early game that I think it's unlikely to be unbanned. It's a mechanic that would slow games down if it could be used successfully since it would give one player a heavier hand in how mana and potential developed in the matchup when it landed on turn 1.

I don't see broken combos although the ability to drop it on turn 1 on the play and then drop a fetch on turn 2 and force your opponent to think really hard about the required action of dropping their second land is potentially quite dominating, giving the first player an even stronger position than they already have.

I'm pretty sure you can activate a fetch at the beginning of upkeep and then respond to it by using Land Tax to go search with effectively one less land on the board, allowing you to get 3 basics and then put the fetched land in play. While I don't see that as killer powerful it certainly would be something that a player on the draw would hate seeing from his opponent as the card advantage that being on the draw gives dissipated into disadvantage and the opponent still had more land on the board after playing his 3rd land immediately afterwards.

On top of the power issues Land Tax is a slower of the game pace and games need to be faster not slower in general.

[Zinch]

There are so many questions about how Land Tax would effect the early game that I think it's unlikely to be unbanned. It's a mechanic that would slow games down if it could be used successfully since it would give one player a heavier hand in how mana and potential developed in the matchup when it landed on turn 1.

I don't see broken combos although the ability to drop it on turn 1 on the play and then drop a fetch on turn 2 and force your opponent to think really hard about the required action of dropping their second land is potentially quite dominating, giving the first player an even stronger position than they already have.

I'm pretty sure you can activate a fetch at the beginning of upkeep and then respond to it by using Land Tax to go search with effectively one less land on the board, allowing you to get 3 basics and then put the fetched land in play. While I don't see that as killer powerful it certainly would be something that a player on the draw would hate seeing from his opponent as the card advantage that being on the draw gives dissipated into disadvantage and the opponent still had more land on the board after playing his 3rd land immediately afterwards.

On top of the power issues Land Tax is a slower of the game pace and games need to be faster not slower in general.

You can't do that. At the beggining of your upkeep Land Tax checks the game stat, and if you have the same number of lands that your opponent, it won't trigger.
You can sacrifice the fetchland on your opponent turn and find nothing if you want to trigger the land tax, but I don't know if it's worth it...

On the other hand, I don't understant why so many people is claiming to its unbanning, come on people, is a boring card! If they banned top for time issues, I don't see how they will unban this (more so with top already legal in the meta... imagine this 2 cads togheter... I'll scoop only for the amount of lost time betwen both cards...)

[FoolofaTook]

You can't do that. At the beggining of your upkeep Land Tax checks the game stat, and if you have the same number of lands that your opponent, it won't trigger.
You can sacrifice the fetchland on your opponent turn and find nothing if you want to trigger the land tax, but I don't know if it's worth it...

Don't you control the order of beginning of upkeep effects? What's to stop you from sacing the fetchland at the beginning of your upkeep triggering Land Tax?

Edit: found the ruling from 2000. It's state-based.

[Aggro_zombies]

Don't you control the order of beginning of upkeep effects? What's to stop you from sacing the fetchland at the beginning of your upkeep before Land Tax triggers?
They all trigger simultaneously at the beginning of your upkeep, but you choose the order they go on the stack. Activating a fetch in response to the trigger would require the activation to resolve before Land Tax's trigger does, leaving you with the same net number of lands.

[FoolofaTook]

They all trigger simultaneously at the beginning of your upkeep, but you choose the order they go on the stack. Activating a fetch in response to the trigger would require the activation to resolve before Land Tax's trigger does, leaving you with the same net number of lands.

Based on the ruling from 2000 there are no activated abilities that can be used before state-based triggers occur. Since Land Tax does not trigger unless you have less lands than the opponent there is no way to respond to its trigger by reducing lands during your upkeep so that you can use it.

Apologies for the derail on Land Tax.

[Aggro_zombies]

Based on the ruling from 2000 there are no activated abilities that can be used before state-based triggers occur. Since Land Tax does not trigger unless you have less lands than the opponent there is no way to respond to its trigger by reducing lands during your upkeep so that you can use it.

Apologies for the derail on Land Tax.
Ah, sorry, misread the question.

There's no way to respond to "the beginning of your upkeep" by sacrificing a fetch to force Land Tax to trigger. It either triggers immediately or not at all.

[FoolofaTook]

Ah, sorry, misread the question.

There's no way to respond to "the beginning of your upkeep" by sacrificing a fetch to force Land Tax to trigger. It either triggers immediately or not at all.

If the trigger went on the stack regardless of how many lands were in play then you could respond to that by sacing a fetchland and then using the trigger to go get basics.

I, of course as with so many other cards, was looking at the way it functioned back when I originally played and the order of upkeep was not so rigid. That was well before 2000.

[Koby]

Though I may be missing something key as I haven't actually tested anything, I'm not sure why you would call Conflux fancy and then suggest Cruel and Myojin. If you resolve Conflux, you should be able to win pretty much on the spot (go get Magister Sphynx, Searing Wind, Force of Will, 2 more Conflux for random pitching purposes). How is that inferior to Crueling them and having to go find another way to actually win the game? It's not like it's unlikely to draw Conflux either, you can Intution for it if needed. Seems like if you're going to go to the effort of getting Dream Halls out, it should really be sealing the game up on the spot.

Because I have tested it on MTGO, and Myojin is just better. Conflux is workable too, but you run into inconsistent draws with all the multicolored, noncastable spells that make Conflux "work". Also, Progenitus is just a better pitch fodder, and ult kill condition.

[Michael Keller]

Ahhh, Entomb is back. I think I'll try it in the "Polar Express II".

:cool:

[sco0ter]

If I remember correctly, there should be an article today explaining the unbannings.
Unfortunately I can't find it on wizards.com. Only Zendikar articles today.

Does anybody has a link?