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Silent Requiem
09-19-2009, 03:51 AM
Dream Halls never really had a shot in Legacy, moving straight to the banned list. Now, with it's long overdue unbanning, we have the chance to try and build on Dream Halls.

At first glance, it would seem that Dream Halls allows us to play super expensive spells for (essentially) five mana. Disregarding the fact that there are already better ways to get a single expensive spell into play (reanimator decks, etc), this also overlooks what Dream Halls really does: it eliminates the need for mana.

Mana, normally through lands, is the most important resource in the game. The rate at which mana can be generated constrains all competitive deck builds. Yet Dream Halls (which admittedly requires mana to cast) exchanges need for mana with the need for cards in hand. This means that if we (effectively) have an infinitely large hand, we can cast as many spells as we like, winning the game the turn we play Dream Halls.

Not having an infinite hand, we can try and duplicate this effect by drawing cards as a result of the cards we play. There are two ways that we could do this.

First, the cards we play could cause us to draw cards. Meditate would be an example, as would Conflux. We would chain these draw spells together until we could cast a lethal storm spell. In this way Dream Halls would function similarly to Ad Nauseum, though the deck would look very different. Perhaps we might call it Dream Tendrils.

Second, we might first put a mechanism in play that draws cards as we play spells. The enchantress engine springs to mind. Again, we would win on the turn we dropped Dream Halls (though we would not have to), by chaining enchantments together to play a lethal Hunting Pack with Concordant Crossroads in play. We might call this deck Enchanting Storm.

Now, I'm going to start playtesting one of these decks next week, and I would appreciate input from the community as to which has more promise.

With Dream Tendrils it would be harder to accelerate Halls into play, because you would have to rely on off colour accelerants (probably black) and it is not clear to me that this deck would have much of an advantage over ANT. Still, a Dark Ritual could put DH into play on turn three. The first two turn would presumably be used to disrupt the opponent.

However, Enchanting Storm could reasonably expect to go off (less disruption) on turn three just using land enchants like wild growth. These enchants then turn into draw spells after Dream Halls hits the table. Turn three would still have given us time to put an enchantress effect into play, but would not have given us the opportunity to disrupt anything.

Which of these decks is more promising?

-Silent Requiem

MMogg
09-19-2009, 04:16 AM
You don't need Tendrils, just 3 dual lands, Conflux --> Progenitus and Coalition Victory... pitch any two cards and victory is yours. Scrubby, I know, but it's similar to an old scrubby Dream Halls casual deck I used to play against scrubs. Progenitus actually makes that combo a little better by protecting himself.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
09-19-2009, 04:45 AM
You might want to build a deck that can win if your 5cc Enchantment is countered, discarded, destroyed, or you just don't draw it.

Silent Requiem
09-19-2009, 05:18 AM
You might want to build a deck that can win if your 5cc Enchantment is countered, discarded, destroyed, or you just don't draw it.

What you say is valid, but there are successful decks, like ANT, that are very definitely about drawing, resolving, and abusing a single card.

Of the two suggested decks, though, I feel that "Enchanted Storm" has the best chance without DH, as the draw engine and mana acceleration are independent of DH.


You don't need Tendrils, just 3 dual lands, Conflux --> Progenitus and Coalition Victory... pitch any two cards and victory is yours. Scrubby, I know, but it's similar to an old scrubby Dream Halls casual deck I used to play against scrubs. Progenitus actually makes that combo a little better by protecting himself.

As a Solidarity player this actually sounds harder to do than generating storm, in part because DH cannot do anything about my land drops. I'm stuck looking for the "right" combo of dual lands. It is also harder to protect the "kill" because it is not a storm spell.

-Silent Requiem

sco0ter
09-19-2009, 05:31 AM
Does anybody know, why Dream Halls was banned at all? I guess there was a Vintage or Extended deck, which broke it already.
Maybe we could just take this deck and update it?

Screwtape
09-19-2009, 06:02 AM
Dream Halls was banned in extended and restricted in Type 1 in 1999, in a wave of restrictions that were set to keep combo decks, that were running rampant at that time, in check.
Apparently it was kept banned when Type 1 split into Vintage and Legacy.

TurboZvi decklist:

3 x Gaea's Blessing
1 x Inspiration
1 x Lobotomy
1 x Impulse
1 x Counterspell
4 x Memory Lapse
4 x Mana Severance
4 x Ancestral Memories
4 x Sift
4 x Meditate
4 x Intuition
4 x Dream Halls
4 x Lotus Petal
4 x Ancient Tomb
4 x Svyelunite Temple
4 x Crystal Vein
9 x Island

Taken from http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=36469.0 . You might find something interesting in that thread too.

I started tinkering with a decklist myself, starting with some Spring Tide variant, and arrived at a deck that uses Dream Halls to set up Eye of the Storm/Spellshift combo in a Madness shell...
It will end up as a casual deck, I guess ;)

Bastian
09-19-2009, 06:07 AM
Dream Halls was originally used with stuff like Mana Vault, Ancient Tomb, Lotus Petal to accelerate a Dream Halls into play, put Mind over Matter and then go for a huge stroke of genius or something to that effect.

The closest thing we can do about Dream Halls is to remake the 1999 TurboZvi deck and use Brainfreeze as a kill?

3 x Gaea's Blessing
1 x Inspiration
1 x Lobotomy
1 x Impulse
1 x Counterspell
4 x Memory Lapse
4 x Mana Severance
4 x Ancestral Memories
4 x Sift
4 x Meditate
4 x Intuition
4 x Dream Halls

4 x Lotus Petal
4 x Ancient Tomb
4 x Svyelunite Temple
4 x Crystal Vein
9 x Island

This is easily adaptable and can be made into a better deck by adapting it to current Legacy. The question is wether it'll be better than other current combo decks.

GreenOne
09-19-2009, 03:36 PM
What about a 5c deck full of shit like progenitus + show and tell + Dream Halls + Natural order + birds + noble hierarcs + Lotus cobra + a bunch of other busted 1000 cmc cards?

You can have starts like:
Turn 1 Hierarc
Turn 2 Cobra
Turn 3 Show and Tell (counter)
Turn 4 Dream Halls (counter)
Turn 5 Cruel ultimatum or somethin else busted.

If show and tell or dream halls doesn't get countered you got to play Cruel Ultmatum for free, and subsequently, win.

Pulp_Fiction
09-19-2009, 05:26 PM
Very interesting idea. If you could keep that train of thought and put together some kind of list I would really be interested in testing a list and working on it on MWS.