[Deck] Berserk Stompy

[Gui]

Hi there! First of all, welcome to MTS!

Glistener Elf hasn't been discussed in this specific thread because:
- Mixing infect guys with non-infect guys is bad, you can't switch his damage to non-infect, and so the damage won't stack with the other creatures.
- The Thread for "Infect Pump" decks is at "New and Developmental" session. You can discuss it freely there.

Besides that, don't use Land Grant. It's bad. And has been discussed Ad Nauseam.

[paeng4983]

Here is a proposed Decklist...

4x Land Grant (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Land%20Grant)
4x Elvish Spirit Guide (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Elvish%20Spirit%20Guide)
9x Forest (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Forest)

4x Nettle Sentinel (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Nettle%20Sentinel)
4x Quirion Ranger (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Quirion%20Ranger)
4x Silhana Ledgewalker (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Silhana%20Ledgewalker)
4x Glistener Elf (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Glistener%20Elf)
4x Scryb Sprites (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Scryb%20Sprites)
4x Blight Mamba (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Blight%20Mamba)

4x Rancor (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Rancor)
4x Vines of Vastwood (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Vines%20of%20Vastwood)
4x Invigorate (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Invigorate)
4x Giant Growth (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Giant%20Growth)
3x Might of Old Krosa (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Might%20of%20Old%20Krosa)

SB: 3x Scryb Ranger (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Scryb%20Ranger)
SB: 3x Ichorclaw Myr (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Ichorclaw%20Myr)
SB: 3x Gleeful Sabotage (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Gleeful%20Sabotage)
SB: 3x Seedtime (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Seedtime)
SB: 3x Defense Grid (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Defense%20Grid)

errrrr...
didn't mean to hurt you but i'd rather see
an infect deck rather with that mixed type
of creatures.

to tell you the truth, i've been waiting for months
for this 1cc infect dude. and now its here i can
shift from this taraditional stumpy to a modern one.
:) ahooo...

[Malchar]

How about Vault Skirge to replace Scryb Sprites? I don't play this deck but it seems like lifelink could be useful with all the pump effects, and it also dodges Mental Misstep.

[boneclub24]

How about Vault Skirge to replace Scryb Sprites? I don't play this deck but it seems like lifelink could be useful with all the pump effects, and it also dodges Mental Misstep.

Hell, I would be happy if Scribes eat a Mental Misstep rather than a Berserk.

[NihilObstat]

How about Vault Skirge to replace Scryb Sprites? I don't play this deck but it seems like lifelink could be useful with all the pump effects, and it also dodges Mental Misstep.

Sometimes wasting 2 lives could be too much, and Sprites untap Nettle. Lifelink doesn't really matter. Against slow decks we either rule or die anyway, and against fast decks 2 wasted lives is a risk.

[Gui]

How about Vault Skirge to replace Scryb Sprites? I don't play this deck but it seems like lifelink could be useful with all the pump effects, and it also dodges Mental Misstep.

I think it can replace. I didn't test, but doesn't seem bad. Although I realise that, if you are in need for life link, maybe spending two life in that case isn't good. But it can be tested. I'd switch my 2x Scryb in my list from previous page for 2x of it and see the results.

[neoryujin]

Has anyone also noticed a potential do-or-die game-ender with Immolating Souleater + Berserk (or even Rancor) ?

Quite risky, but Mental Misstep or Vines of Vastwood could perhaps offer protection ...

[Gui]

Has anyone also noticed a potential do-or-die game-ender with Immolating Souleater + Berserk (or even Rancor) ?

Quite risky, but Mental Misstep or Vines of Vastwood could perhaps offer protection ...

Hmmmm.... somehow I didn't notice that.

Looks good in theory, even without berserk, it's not uncommon to be ahead and able to spend like 16 life to put 9 dmg at a time... good finding, that's a test priority, IMO.

Problem is how to fit more 2cc to the deck. My list from a page ago is quite balanced, manabase sakes, I think I'll have to cut Sylvan Library for it?

[boneclub24]

I have the same issue with this guy as I do with Kiln Fiend in Sligh: I HATE relying on just one creature. If it eats removal, you are done.

@Gui: Have you gotten to testing Mental Misstep yet?

[neoryujin]

I have the same issue with this guy as I do with Kiln Fiend in Sligh: I HATE relying on just one creature. If it eats removal, you are done.

@Gui: Have you gotten to testing Mental Misstep yet?

It's risky, yes, but it's giving out more pressure than for example Jungle Lion or Nettle Sentinel.

For example, it's our turn 3, we are at 18 life & have 1/1 Skarrgan Pit-skulk & Immolating Souleater (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Immolating%20Souleater) in play, standing against their 3/4 Tarmogoyf & 2 Noble Hierarch, opponent at 20 life.

We attack with both of our creatures, leaving the opponent wondering, as to why we haven't pumped Skarrgan Pit-skulk to make it unblockable as usual? If we pay 16 life to Immolating Souleater (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Immolating%20Souleater) to deal 9 damage + Berserk, that would still be a total of 18 damage (and still reducable by using Tarmogoyf to block it), not enough to finish it. Unless we have a pumper in hand, which would make Immolating Souleater (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Immolating%20Souleater) getting +3/+3, which (with paying 16 life & berserk) would accumulate to 24 trampling damage (even a blocking Tarmogoyf would not help). Perhaps the opponent has a removal in hand, but who knows if we have Mental Misstep or Vines of Vastwood in our hand?

So, it would make blocking decision more difficult for our opponent. And if we know that the creature is a removal magnet, we could also use this pressure to bluff our opponent. (for example, in the above example, we didn't have any Berserk, just a bunch of creatures, and we just wanted to get rid of Goyf. Then simply pay 6 life to kill the blocking Goyf, and dump all your creatures to the battlefield afterwards)

[paeng4983]

over the past weekend, i had the chance to play against
that new counter spell (MM), and i hate it!

most of our spell here is at ONE cc and them having FOW and MM
is like hell.

[Gui]

over the past weekend, i had the chance to play against
that new counter spell (MM), and i hate it!

most of our spell here is at ONE cc and them having FOW and MM
is like hell.

Wierd, because tempo decks usually have problems against us, they used to be good matches. Besides, we can always use Choke or River Boa again to bring them more problems... well...

[KBH]

and now its here i can
shift from this taraditional stumpy to a modern one

That's my issue. This deck feels like living in the past when a turn 4 win was good. It has exactly one card that can produce turn 3 wins (Berserk) and then not always (iffy withLedgewalker)

Infect is just too much faster, although I guess that Souleater is theoretically really fast as well.

[Gui]

That's my issue. This deck feels like living in the past when a turn 4 win was good. It has exactly one card that can produce turn 3 wins (Berserk) and then not always (iffy withLedgewalker)

Infect is just too much faster, although I guess that Souleater is theoretically really fast as well.

Infect has problems with controlish decks running counterspells and removals that we don't usually have (maybe misstep can halt us on that, but we usually can beat tempo decks better than infect, that relies on creatures with no protection and no beef)

Anyways, there's a thread for pump-infect already, what's the problem with discussing it there?

[KBH]

Infect has problems with controlish decks running counterspells and removals that we don't usually have (maybe misstep can halt us on that, but we usually can beat tempo decks better than infect, that relies on creatures with no protection and no beef)

Anyways, there's a thread for pump-infect already, what's the problem with discussing it there?

I was more discussing the question of whether this deck is obsolete.

[paeng4983]

I was more discussing the question of whether this deck is obsolete.

if it is, ohh this made me sad
:(
but in my opinion, it's not (i think).
in my view, the 1st version of the deck is still viable
and in fact, i'm still running an almost similar
build as that of caesar's (only with minimal tweaks just
to be that flexible with the meta that i'll be playing at)
which still gives me good results.

berserk-infect stompy is fun to play in whatever/ where-ever
legacy tournament you're playing. :laugh:

[KBH]

I don't know. I've spent years hoping this deck could be good, deluding myself into thinking it was at least passable, and so on.

But what counts as "fun"? Going 2-3?

I agree this deck is good -- in Pauper, the all commons format. In Legacy though? Come on..its only appeal is that its "budget" but since you need Berserk thats not even true anymore.

[Gui]

I don't know. I've spent years hoping this deck could be good, deluding myself into thinking it was at least passable, and so on.

But what counts as "fun"? Going 2-3?

I agree this deck is good -- in Pauper, the all commons format. In Legacy though? Come on..its only appeal is that its "budget" but since you need Berserk thats not even true anymore.

You could post your problems, playtesting data and results, and try to solve its problems, instead of come to the thread to say you don't believe in the deck anymore... ><

Btw, not to ofend anyone, have you playtested it a lot lately to say so? Because if you had, you could post your findings, I'd be interested.

[KBH]

You could post your problems, playtesting data and results, and try to solve its problems, instead of come to the thread to say you don't believe in the deck anymore... ><

Btw, not to ofend anyone, have you playtested it a lot lately to say so? Because if you had, you could post your findings, I'd be interested.

I have playtested it, yes. Its not going to be terribly relevant though since New Phyrexia shakes things up a good bit. Firstly, due to Mental Misstep. Secondly, because Infect got that much relatively better.

But, I've played this deck on modo on and off. It was way too slow to beat Ad Naus before Mystical was banned. Admittedly I didn't play much vs the Survival decks.

I've also played Infect, including at the Star City event last weekend, and you just can't compare them. Infect has many paths to win on Turn 2.

I think what you're saying here highlights part of the problem. I've "lost faith" in the deck? The only thing keeping this deck going is exactly that -- a quasi-religious attachment on the part of its devotees.

[Gui]

Right. Part of the problem is that it doesn't get enough playtest. I'm interested in your list and what you lost against at SCG or whichever event you got the deck to. That would help tweaking it, and possibly see what we are doing wrong.

Unfortunately I don't have access to weekly tournaments, not even to weekly playtesting unless via mws, which tends to suck because players there usually don't want to play against Zerk or don't know how to play their decks. =/

[Khell]

Now that m12 previews are coming out, I found an interesting creature which might fit into the deck. The only problem is the casting cost which is at 3 but you've got a creature with hexproof (troll-shroud) as well as power that increases everytime we land a forest.

Dungrove Elder - 2G
Creature - Treefolk (R)
Hexproof
Dungrove Elder's power and toughness are each equal to the number of Forests you contorl.
*/*

Any thoughts on this one?

Cheers.

[paeng4983]

Now that m12 previews are coming out, I found an interesting creature which might fit into the deck. The only problem is the casting cost which is at 3 but you've got a creature with hexproof (troll-shroud) as well as power that increases everytime we land a forest.

Dungrove Elder - 2G
Creature - Treefolk (R)
Hexproof
Dungrove Elder's power and toughness are each equal to the number of Forests you contorl.
*/*

Any thoughts on this one?

Cheers.

hmmmm.. i think its not a good addition. its at 2G cc, berserk stumpy utilize speed.

@gui and KBH
berserk deck can still win. just play with it with your whole heart. :laughs:

[Khell]

True that. The 3cc would just lengthen the time it would take to settle the game and put our chances of winning at risk although it would be nice to have a troll-shroud creature besides boggle and ledgewalker.

I've been playing Berserk Stompy for a while already and it's been quite fun. The only difference I've done is the insertion of 2 Assault Strobe as another card similar to Berserk. Works wonders on the deck. :)

[Gui]

@gui and KBH
berserk deck can still win. just play with it with your whole heart. :laughs:

It sure does. I just don't have the time to playtest it enough and people around here don't post much about their games/experiences, which leads me to using another more updated deck.

Even tho, I think this deck is still more stable than infect zerk unless for the Blue splashed version running FoW, Daze, MM and Brainstorm, which gives that deck a pretty good defense. Any other version I tested, I still prefer the power of landing lots of 2/x's for :g: or win on the back of 5/5's trample or 3/1's tramples fly trollshroud. xD

The 3cc guy makes you wanna increase the number of forests, and then even with 4 forests on the field, it won't beat 'Goyf

I've noticed how powerful balancing the manabase can be after I stoped adding Vines of Vastwood and came back to Seal. No clogged hands, deck helping you out, being able to Zerk asap...

[Magic-Style]

I play 3c Berserk Stompy in BOM5 (633 players) last week. Result : 6 win / 3 lose

2 Forest
8 G Fetch
3 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Dryad Arbor

4 ESG
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kavu Predator
4 Tarmogoyf
4 GSZ

4 STP
4 Rancor
3 VoV
4 Invigorate
4 Berserk
1 Fling

SB:
3 Vexing Shusher
3 Gaddok Teeg
3 Nature's Claim
3 Seed of innocence
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Fiery Justice (very bad...)


Merfolk 2/0
Merfolk 0/2
G/B Pikula/Stoneforge 2/0
U/W Stoneforge 0/2 (one game i mulligan at 4 cards without land :(
Team America 2/0
CounterTop ***** 1/2
Reanimator 2/0
And the two other win, i'm not sure, but i think is Rock and *****.

[paeng4983]

Result : 6 win / 3 lose

i told you guys. berserk stumpy still rocks! :)
by the way, how did mental mistep do against you (magic-style)?

[Magic-Style]

It's very bad for me. I play VS 5 or 6 deck with Mental Mistep :( I think play 3 MM in maindeck VS Swords and MM :)

I thinking for a list G/R/U look like :

15 Land
4 Lotus Petal / or Noble hierarch
4 ESG / or lotus petal or Noble

4 Brainstorm
4 Probe
3 or 4 MM

4 Kavru
4 Kind fiend
4 GSZ

x Skyshroud Cutter
x VoV
4 Invigorate
4 Berserk

[boneclub24]

It sure does. I just don't have the time to playtest it enough and people around here don't post much about their games/experiences, which leads me to using another more updated deck.

Even tho, I think this deck is still more stable than infect zerk unless for the Blue splashed version running FoW, Daze, MM and Brainstorm, which gives that deck a pretty good defense. Any other version I tested, I still prefer the power of landing lots of 2/x's for :g: or win on the back of 5/5's trample or 3/1's tramples fly trollshroud. xD

The 3cc guy makes you wanna increase the number of forests, and then even with 4 forests on the field, it won't beat 'Goyf

I've noticed how powerful balancing the manabase can be after I stoped adding Vines of Vastwood and came back to Seal. No clogged hands, deck helping you out, being able to Zerk asap...

I would love to post my tournament results... but I don't actually own any Berserk yet :< I hope to in the near future, though.


It's very bad for me. I play VS 5 or 6 deck with Mental Mistep :( I think play 3 MM in maindeck VS Swords and MM :)

I thinking for a list G/R/U look like :

15 Land
4 Lotus Petal / or Noble hierarch
4 ESG / or lotus petal or Noble

4 Brainstorm
4 Probe
3 or 4 MM

4 Kavru
4 Kind fiend
4 GSZ

x Skyshroud Cutter
x VoV
4 Invigorate
4 Berserk

You don't actually need blue here. You can easily cut Brainstorm IMO.

Why are you running Red, but no Assault Strobe? Also, this is the sort of deck that would benefit from Mutagenic Growth. Vines of Vastwood wouldn't be needed, especially with maindeck MM, and Skyshroud Cutter is just gross without Kavu. If you keep blue, would Distortion Strike be viable? It's absolutely ridiculous with the Fiend. You also won't need GSZ with... 2 targets (include Arbor...)

[NihilObstat]

You don't actually need blue here. You can easily cut Brainstorm IMO.
Why are you running Red, but no Assault Strobe? Also, this is the sort of deck that would benefit from Mutagenic Growth. Vines of Vastwood wouldn't be needed, especially with maindeck MM, and Skyshroud Cutter is just gross without Kavu. If you keep blue, would Distortion Strike be viable? It's absolutely ridiculous with the Fiend. You also won't need GSZ with... 2 targets (include Arbor...)

Mutagenic is really not good at all in a regular stompy list. It's good in Infect, but a +2/+2 is too little when we need to get to 20 damage ASAP.
Vines could be cuttable, over Might of old Krosa or GG, but I think it's needed in a list that runs only 8 creatures, and plays heavily around Kavu.

Skyshroud Cutter could be a next option when he plays GSZ, since this means that he runs 8 Kavus.
Also GSZ is really good next to Kiln Fiend, because GSZ=Creature, but pumps Kiln, since it is a spell.

You don't need Brainstorm and therefore you don't need blue, but I also don't like Gitaxian Probe... We want to make each card in our hand count.

[Charlatan]

4 GSZ


What is that creature?

[paeng4983]

What is that creature?

lol
its green sun zenith bro

[boneclub24]

Mutagenic is really not good at all in a regular stompy list. It's good in Infect, but a +2/+2 is too little when we need to get to 20 damage ASAP.
Vines could be cuttable, over Might of old Krosa or GG, but I think it's needed in a list that runs only 8 creatures, and plays heavily around Kavu.

Skyshroud Cutter could be a next option when he plays GSZ, since this means that he runs 8 Kavus.
Also GSZ is really good next to Kiln Fiend, because GSZ=Creature, but pumps Kiln, since it is a spell.

You don't need Brainstorm and therefore you don't need blue, but I also don't like Gitaxian Probe... We want to make each card in our hand count.

But Mutagenic gains a lot of power paired with Kiln Fiend ;)

[NihilObstat]

But Mutagenic gains a lot of power paired with Kiln Fiend ;)

You're actually right, I didn't realize. But I would usually see that list trying to work more with Kavu, and only Kiln if it's what you got.

Anyway, you are right and maybe the list should play both Invigorate and Mutagenic Growth as free pump spells.

Any testing on it? I'm currently testing a Counter protected Infect stompy, but it's not doing good, and my regular Monogreen B.S. is lately deceiving me.

[paeng4983]

You're actually right, I didn't realize. But I would usually see that list trying to work more with Kavu, and only Kiln if it's what you got.

Anyway, you are right and maybe the list should play both Invigorate and Mutagenic Growth as free pump spells.

Any testing on it? I'm currently testing a Counter protected Infect stompy, but it's not doing good, and my regular Monogreen B.S. is lately deceiving me.

i've been play testing my B.S.here with blue decks that run MM and counterTOP, and i am really having a hard time against their wall of counters.

i am thinking of putting 1 susher in my MD, fetch it with GSZ then begin my assault.

here's what's in my mind

2 savannah
2 taiga
2 plateau
4 windswepth heath
4 wooded foothills
3 forest

4 noble
4 ESG
3 qasali
4 kavu
4 klin
1 susher
4 stp
4 berserk
1 strobe assault
4 invigorate
4 mutagenic
4 VoV
2 GSZ

[Magic-Style]

You don't need Brainstorm and therefore you don't need blue, but I also don't like Gitaxian Probe... We want to make each card in our hand count.

Gitaxian Probe is a very good card. It's free pump with klin fiend, you can see oppenent hand the first turn if there are Wasteland and see oppenent archetype deck. Or if you want to go "all-in" it's nice to see if oppenent have STP, Daze, Fow....
Brainstorm is nice too, it's pump with kiln fiend and you can choose get more creature or pump or protect spell (MM,VoV) and it's better with Gitaxian Probe :)

[NihilObstat]

Gitaxian Probe is a very good card. It's free pump with klin fiend, you can see oppenent hand the first turn if there are Wasteland and see oppenent archetype deck. Or if you want to go "all-in" it's nice to see if oppenent have STP, Daze, Fow....
Brainstorm is nice too, it's pump with kiln fiend and you can choose get more creature or pump or protect spell (MM,VoV) and it's better with Gitaxian Probe :)

I do realize about all of the advantages that both Prove and Brainstorm have, but I just don't believe that they are good enough, at least not brainstorm.
Probe and MM and be payed with 2 life, but splashing to blue only to play Brain, is definitely too much.

Also, I do realize that Probe is good, but he'd be only good next to Kiln, and even then, there'll be many, many games where you'll just hate to see Probe more than any other card, you'll end up cutting it, you'll see.

[Magic-Style]

Yesteday i finish 5th on 80 players.

I take my deckliste of BOM5, and change: -3 VoV, +3 skyshroud cutter in MD, and -2 fiery justice, +1 shusher +1 nature's claim in SB.

Tres.h urg 2/0
Painter red 2/0
Goblin rb 2/1
Merfolk 2/0
Landstill 1/2
Affinity 2/0
Burn W ID

5-1-1

1/4 final togless 1/2

[Gui]

Yesteday i finish 5th on 80 players.

I take my deckliste of BOM5, and change: -3 VoV, +3 skyshroud cutter in MD, and -2 fiery justice, +1 shusher +1 nature's claim in SB.

Here, let me help:

// Maindeck
2 Forest
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kavu Predator
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Green Sun Zenith
3 Skyshroud Cutter

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Rancor
4 Invigorate
4 Berserk
1 Fling

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Vexing Shusher
SB: 4 Nature's Claim
SB: 3 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 Seeds of innocence
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage




Tres.h urg 2/0
Painter red 2/0
Goblin rb 2/1
Merfolk 2/0
Landstill 1/2
Affinity 2/0
Burn W ID
5-1-1
1/4 final togless 1/2

Could you share how you sided?

[boneclub24]

I've entered the next MTG Salvation MWS tourney. I had to drop from the last one I entered due to too many things going on, and I was suspended during the last one. I can't decide what deck to run. I'm actually considering this, but I probably won't due to the meta probably being lots of Junk and Mental Misstep decks. Thoughts? This is my list btw:

Land: 17
17 Forest

Creatures: 21
3 Jungle Lion
4 Kavu Predator
4 Nettle Sentinel
2 Scryb Sprites
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk

Spells: 22
4 Berserk
4 Invigorate
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Rancor
4 Seal of Strength
2 Sylvan Library

Sideboard: 15
3 Winter Orb
4 Gleeful Sabotage
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Mental Misstep

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/berserk-stompy-2/

[Gui]

Ok, this is the list I've been working with. I'll give it a break on testings, but I tested a fair amount. It still wins against blue tempo, even with MM available, specially with Rushwood SB. I wanted to test more, but unfortunatly it seems like people don't like playtesting against this, so...

People who advocate that Kavu is too fair/cute will probably like this list:

// Lands
17 Forest

// Creatures
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Jungle Lion
4 Viridian Zealot

// Spells
4 Rancor
4 Invigorate
4 Seal of Strength
4 Giant Growth
4 Berserk
3 Sylvan Library

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Reverent Silence
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Rushwood Legate
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 2 Winter Orb
SB: 1 Compost
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Seeds of Innocence


Possible change to increase 1cc creatures (I'm doing fine with 12): -1 Sylvan -1 viridian +2 Scryb

Siding like this:

Blue tempo (Merfolks, Threshold, UGx):
-1 Sylvan
-1 Zealot
-1 Growth
+3 Rushwood

Blue control:
-3 Berserk
-3 Invigorate
+1 Choke
+2 Winter Orb
+3 Rushwood

Dredge:
-4 Silhana
-1 Zealot
+2 Tormods
+2 Relics
+1 Compost

BGW / Hymn.dec:
-1 Viridian
-1 Invigorate
-1 Growth
+2 Winter Orb
+1 Compost

Zoo/Maverick:
-1 Sylvan
-1 Invigorate
+2 Relic -> Totaly worth it

Enchantress:
-2 Silhana
+2 Reverent Silence

Affinity/stax-like/mud:
-2 Silhana
+2 Seeds of Innocence

This SB has outs to everything but Combo. If Ad Nauseam, side-in Rushwood over Silhana and try to rush their life.
If High Tide, Side-in Rushwood and Choke over silhana. Either case, don't side out the pumps. Belcher is kinda scoop unless they EtW and you hit lots of creatures.

[zpikduM]

M12 is bringing goodies. For example:

Titanic Growth G
Instant
Target creature gets +4/+4 until end of turn.


Gladecover Scout G
Creature - Elf Scout
Hexproof
1/1

Thoughts on what this will do?

[paeng4983]

M12 is bringing goodies. For example:

Titanic Growth G
Instant
Target creature gets +4/+4 until end of turn.


Gladecover Scout G
Creature - Elf Scout
Hexproof
1/1

Thoughts on what this will do?

gladecover scout is the reincarnation of slippery bogle.
certainly an additional force not just to this deck but to
the elven community as well. i like it

titanic growth's casting cost is at 1G not G

[lyracian]

The Scout is a Boggle that is immune to Pyroblast so slightly stronger. It also means you could run even more Hexproof creatures. The new Giant Growth is probably too slow and is just weaker than Vines of Vastwood.

Any thoughts on this from the Commander decks? I wondered if it would help with fighting Dredge or if it is too slow...

Scavenging Ooze 1G
Creature - Ooze 2/2
G : Exile target card from a graveyard. If it was a creature card, put a +1/+1 counter on Scavenging Ooze and you gain 1 life.

[Gui]

The card is OK against dredge, you would still need some grave-hate, but it helps. But I think Scavenging Ooze may be maindeck material.

As I said, countering Goyf and Reliquary strategies, and getting bigger in the process, and also getting bigger with your own countered/removed creatures, it's some nice set of skills. Besides, Dredge, Reanimator, target-removal to Loam...

Test material, for sure. Maindeck/Sideboard material, maybe.

[boneclub24]

Yeah, Ooze definitely caught my eye. A better Withered Wretch in green? I like.

[fgsl13]

I've seen some lists with a red splash, but I haven't seen a discussion on Assault Strobe (http://magiccards.info/som/en/82.html), or even Double Cleave (http://magiccards.info/pch/en/100.html).
It really goes along with Berserk (http://magiccards.info/fve/en/2.html) and can work almost like Berserk 5th-8th.
I know it's a sorcery, but in this deck it puts a lot of pressure for just one mana.
I've read a lot of complaints on how the deck is dependant on Berserk, and it would be an attempt to fix that.
Also, Kiln Fiend (http://magiccards.info/roe/en/153.html) is a great addition to the deck, since you have 8 cards that can give him trample (Berserk and Rancor (http://magiccards.info/arc/en/67.html)).

[Gui]

I've seen some lists with a red splash, but I haven't seen a discussion on Assault Strobe (http://magiccards.info/som/en/82.html), or even Double Cleave (http://magiccards.info/pch/en/100.html).
It really goes along with Berserk (http://magiccards.info/fve/en/2.html) and can work almost like Berserk 5th-8th.
I know it's a sorcery, but in this deck it puts a lot of pressure for just one mana.
I've read a lot of complaints on how the deck is dependant on Berserk, and it would be an attempt to fix that.
Also, Kiln Fiend (http://magiccards.info/roe/en/153.html) is a great addition to the deck, since you have 8 cards that can give him trample (Berserk and Rancor (http://magiccards.info/arc/en/67.html)).

There has been a discussion, I tryed it a little as well...

Well, it works. You can change Kavu for Kiln Fiend as well. Just try to fix the manabase, not abusing 2cc, and playing the "free pumps". And can play Mutagenic over Krosa/Seal/Growth since you are faster. And can board Pyroblast/REB.
7-8 Zerk effects are good.

[boneclub24]

There has been a discussion, I tryed it a little as well...

Well, it works. You can change Kavu for Kiln Fiend as well. Just try to fix the manabase, not abusing 2cc, and playing the "free pumps". And can play Mutagenic over Krosa/Seal/Growth since you are faster. And can board Pyroblast/REB.
7-8 Zerk effects are good.

Yeah, I would def. run a RG version if I had access to duals. Do you guys think this deck is fast enough to be able to run Painlands or Shocklands instead?

[Gui]

Yeah, I would def. run a RG version if I had access to duals. Do you guys think this deck is fast enough to be able to run Painlands or Shocklands instead?

Best alternative is a mix of Stomping Grounds, Wooded Foothills and Grove of the Burnwillows (which is good with Kavu). A small enough count of nonbasic could be less succeptible to wasteland, but I wouldn't run less than 19 lands sameway, since a single wasteland against a "1 lander" hand would now mean game. Also, small count of fetchlands to avoid Stifle meaning free-win. And last, it it's a small splash, ponder carefully the amount of red cards. And you need ~11 Forests subtypes so that you can cast Invigorate properly evey match.

[wilson]

I'd be thrilled to see a cmc2 hexproof green creature in m12..

[boneclub24]

Hey, just ordered my set of Berserk from ChannelFireball! Should be able to get some testing in soon! :)

[Khell]

boneclub24, what would you add if you were able to run an R/G version of Berserk Stompy? Would you put in Assault Strobe or Fling? Any other creatures (ie Kiln Fiend) or spells (ie Blood Lust)?

[boneclub24]

I would probably only add red for Assault Strobe and Kiln Fiend. I would also consider adding Mutagenic Growth alongside Kiln Fiend.

This is my current build, fairly consistent:

Land: 16
16 Forest

Creatures: 22
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Jungle Lion
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Kavu Predator
2 Scryb Sprites

Spells: 22
4 Berserk
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Rancor
4 Invigorate
4 Seal of Strength
2 Sylvan Library

Sideboard: 15
1 Compost
2 Winter Orb
1 Choke
3 Rushwood Legate
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Gleeful Sabotage

[Khell]

I'm currently playing this deck and having fun at the same time.

Creatures (20):
4x Scryb Sprites
4x Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4x Slippery Bogle
4x Kavu Predator
4x Silhana Ledgewalker

Spells (24):
4x Assault Strobe
4x Berserk
4x Invigorate
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Rancor
4x Seal of Strength

Lands (16):
4x Taiga
12x Forest

I currently don't have Sylvan Library but I was thinking of what I can remove once I get 2 Sylvan Library's.

Also, I was thinking of putting in Mutagenic Growth since I already have Assault Strobe in. Do you think we can replace Might of Old Krosa though?

Once Gladecover Scout in m12 becomes available, I'm also thinking to replace Scryb Sprites with them. Increases the number of Hexproof creatures so we do not have to worry about packing Vines of Vastwood.

Let me know what you all think.

Cheers.

[boneclub24]

Has anyone else been doing testing with different lists? I've been trying out Vault Skirge > Scryb Sprites, but I haven't gotten in nearly enough testing to have a conclusion for that yet. This is everything I plan on testing:
1) Last list Gui posted, involving Zealot and Growth MD
2) Mutagenic Growth over MoOK/GG
3) Vault Skirge over Scryb Sprites
4) Immolating Souleater over 2~4 Kavu/Viridian


I'm currently playing this deck and having fun at the same time.

Creatures (20):
4x Scryb Sprites
4x Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4x Slippery Bogle
4x Kavu Predator
4x Silhana Ledgewalker

Spells (24):
4x Assault Strobe
4x Berserk
4x Invigorate
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Rancor
4x Seal of Strength

Lands (16):
4x Taiga
12x Forest

I currently don't have Sylvan Library but I was thinking of what I can remove once I get 2 Sylvan Library's.

Also, I was thinking of putting in Mutagenic Growth since I already have Assault Strobe in. Do you think we can replace Might of Old Krosa though?

Once Gladecover Scout in m12 becomes available, I'm also thinking to replace Scryb Sprites with them. Increases the number of Hexproof creatures so we do not have to worry about packing Vines of Vastwood.

Let me know what you all think.

Cheers.

You can replace 1 Assault Strobe and 1 Sprites for a couple Libraries. MoOK shouldn't be replaced by Mutagenic Growth IMO. The only card that seems like it could be run over MoOK is Giant Growth (And that is for a more combat-orientated list, unlike yours). MoOK seems fine here, but feel free to test it (that was one of the changes I was going to test)

[Magic-Style]

I think Reckless Charge can be a good card in R/G version ;)

[-Spooky-]

I think Reckless Charge can be a good card in R/G version ;)

Its ok, but in the red/green version of the deck each card is really combating for slots. if you are fitting in copies of reckless charge then that means you are losing copies of other cards that are potentially better, like invigorate or might of old krosa. Reckless charge is only really worth it when its hitting kiln fiend, and that only happens every so often.

[-Spooky-]

I think Reckless Charge can be a good card in R/G version ;)

Its ok, but in the red/green version of the deck each card is really combating for slots. if you are fitting in copies of reckless charge then that means you are losing copies of other cards that are potentially better, like invigorate or might of old krosa. Reckless charge is only really worth it when its hitting kiln fiend, and that only happens every so often.

[paeng4983]

im trying to add GSZ in the list.
and this what i currently have.
i know this one seems different
from what we used to run, but
believe me, its the same banana.

any thoughts?

3 waste, 5 G_fetches, 1 arbor dryad, 8 forest

4 kavu, 2 skyshroud cutter, 4 wall of roots
4 wall of blossoms, 4 llanowar, 4 ESG,
1 thrun the last troll

4 berserk, 4 vov, 4 invigorate

4 R.silence

2 sylvan library

4 GSZ

[boneclub24]

How does this new guy look?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=120483

He is potentially a 4/4 for :1::g::g:, but needs to have :g: pumped into him every turn. He can also be evasive, though.

[lyracian]

How does this new guy look?
He is potentially a 4/4 for :1::g::g:, but needs to have :g: pumped into him every turn. He can also be evasive, though.The build in Giant Growth with Trample looks nice. It is at least something new to test...

[Gui]

I looked twice at this new creature as well... at first glance I thought "garbage", and at second "at least a fancy garbage". The drawback of needing a :g: every turn cost us something around half the resources we would have, and guess what? He doesn't beat 'goyf. Anyways, it's test material, just that I won't be testing coz other stuff with higher priority atm. =/

[boneclub24]

Yeah, I tested it. It was... interesting, to say the least. Some games I got the nut draw with a turn 3 15/15 Kavu, sometime I got just a fizzle.

[neoryujin]

What do you guys think about the new Hunter's Insight from M12?

Hunter’s Insight 2G
Instant
Choose target creature you control. Whenever that creature deals combat damage to a player or planeswalker this turn, draw that many cards.

With new Hexshroud creatures (and old ones like Silhana Ledgewalker) & free pumps (Mutagenic Growth, Invigorate), this could safely & easily draw 3-5 cards for 3 mana.

Perhaps (the other) Stompy mana base (City of Traitors, Ancient Tomb), paired with Elvish Spirit Guide could also help

Could this bring a new direction for Berserk Stompy? (evolve to Hexproof Berserk Stompy ? :)

[Gui]

What do you guys think about the new Hunter's Insight from M12?

Hunter’s Insight 2G
Instant
Choose target creature you control. Whenever that creature deals combat damage to a player or planeswalker this turn, draw that many cards.

With new Hexshroud creatures (and old ones like Silhana Ledgewalker) & free pumps (Mutagenic Growth, Invigorate), this could safely & easily draw 3-5 cards for 3 mana.

Perhaps (the other) Stompy mana base (City of Traitors, Ancient Tomb), paired with Elvish Spirit Guide could also help

Could this bring a new direction for Berserk Stompy? (evolve to Hexproof Berserk Stompy ? :)

Short answer - No.

This could create a new deck, etc. Berserk Stompy is supposed to be as is. The draw spell cannot be supported by our manabase, and Sylvan Library deals a really good job drawing cards.
Besides, we have a lot of stuff to test, as mentioned by boneclub24.

@ Bone
No, I think the new creature is not the main focus atm xD

[paeng4983]

Short answer - No.

This could create a new deck, etc. Berserk Stompy is supposed to be as is. The draw spell cannot be supported by our manabase, and Sylvan Library deals a really good job drawing cards.
Besides, we have a lot of stuff to test, as mentioned by boneclub24.

@ Bone
No, I think the new creature is not the main focus atm xD

hey gui, are you playing mws or cockatrice?
can you pls try my v.2 of berserk. sorry i dont know
how to play mws or cockatrice.

here's my updated version:

5 G_fetches
1 arbor
9 forest
2 wasteland

4 kavu predator
3 skyshroud cutter
4 esg
4 llanowar
1 thrun the last troll
1 tarmo
1 scryb ranger
3 wall of blossoms

4 berserk
4 invigorate
4 vines of vastwood

4 reverent silence

4 GSZ

2 sylvan library


@bone, try this one. i removed the wall of roots and replaced it with
1 tarmo, 1 scryb ranger and 1 thrun

:)





Hunter’s Insight 2G
hmmmm, i think cold eye selkie is much better than this.
keen sense also is better than this...
but on the positive note, decks (SUCH as mono green chalice aggro)
can have this. :)

[boneclub24]

Okay, I've tested the Vault Skirge > Sprites extensively, and I can say this. It honestly doesn't make a noticeable difference. Sure, there are some games you gain some decent life, but the fact that it's a 2-of makes it hardly noticeable. The thing mostly in the Skirge's favor is not being Mental Misstepable turn 1. But really, turn 1 isn't deathly important for us anyway, unless we are against combo. In which case, they probably don't pack MM.

[Gui]

Okay, I've tested the Vault Skirge > Sprites extensively, and I can say this. It honestly doesn't make a noticeable difference. Sure, there are some games you gain some decent life, but the fact that it's a 2-of makes it hardly noticeable. The thing mostly in the Skirge's favor is not being Mental Misstepable turn 1. But really, turn 1 isn't deathly important for us anyway, unless we are against combo. In which case, they probably don't pack MM.

Right. Keep Vault Skirge, then. It's not much, but fighting MM, lifelink, and not being green against perish, might end up being relevant.

What were you testing against? ^^

[boneclub24]

Right. Keep Vault Skirge, then. It's not much, but fighting MM, lifelink, and not being green against perish, might end up being relevant.

What were you testing against? ^^

I was just testing on MWS for a few weeks. Mostly Merfolk and Junk decks.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Perish. That might be the biggest reason to keep it, then.

EDIT: I'm finding the Affinity matchup to be just awful :|

[Gui]

EDIT: I'm finding the Affinity matchup to be just awful :|

Test the list using Viridian Zealot MD... it's not much, but could help, and also against Stoneforge.
Besides, the extra SB room can be used to play Seeds.

[boneclub24]

Test the list using Viridian Zealot MD... it's not much, but could help, and also against Stoneforge.
Besides, the extra SB room can be used to play Seeds.

Honestly, it's not the lack of hate cards. The best way to beat affinity is to Berserk combo them, but the problem is that the hate slows us down a little and we don't always have everything we need.

[lyracian]

Okay, I've tested the Vault Skirge > Sprites extensively, and I can say this. It honestly doesn't make a noticeable difference. Sure, there are some games you gain some decent life, but the fact that it's a 2-of makes it hardly noticeable. The thing mostly in the Skirge's favor is not being Mental Misstepable turn 1.Might it be worthwhile trying it as a four of? I think I will pick some up and give it a try.

[Gui]

Might it be worthwhile trying it as a four of? I think I will pick some up and give it a try.

The room is tight, what would you be cutting for it? How does your list look like? How many 1 mana 2/x are you running atm?

[bondafong]

Hex Stompy:

2 Gaea's Cradle
18 Forest

4 Gladecover Scout
4 Slippery Bogle
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Troll Ascetic
2 Thrun, the Last Troll

4 Rancor
4 Berserk
4 Briar Shield
6 Pump spells of choice
2 Sylvan Library

[boneclub24]

Hex Stompy:

2 Gaea's Cradle
18 Forest

4 Gladecover Scout
4 Slippery Bogle
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Troll Ascetic
2 Thrun, the Last Troll

4 Rancor
4 Berserk
4 Briar Shield
6 Pump spells of choice
2 Sylvan Library

Your curve is too high. We only want 1 or 2 three drops, if any. If you want to support this, you will want something like Ancient Tomb and/or Elvish Spirit Guide. At that point you should probably be looking at Chalice Green...

Anywho, what do you guys think of this card I designed? NOTE: THIS IS NOT A REAL CARD.

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww49/boneclub24/Purevine-2.jpg?t=1310677386

[bondafong]

Your curve is too high. We only want 1 or 2 three drops, if any. If you want to support this, you will want something like Ancient Tomb and/or Elvish Spirit Guide.

Tombs might be useful, but then the dungrove elders have to go or be replaced by another copy of Thrun.

The point of this deck is to make all your opponents removal useless and thus your own pumpspells safe to play. So the deck is a little bit different than the usual Berserk Stompy deck. That's also the reason there's 20 lands instead of 17.

[boneclub24]

While the extra land will help, I still suggest you run some kind of ramp spell, maybe even Chrome Mox.

[lyracian]

The room is tight, what would you be cutting for it? How does your list look like? How many 1 mana 2/x are you running atm?Probably not enough, but I was thinking of trying this for the extra evasion

Creatures: 22
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Vault Skirge
4 Kavu Predator
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
2 Troll Ascetic

Spells: 22
4 Berserk
4 Giant Growth
4 Rancor
4 Invigorate
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Sylvan Library

[boneclub24]

Probably not enough, but I was thinking of trying this for the extra evasion

Creatures: 22
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Vault Skirge
4 Kavu Predator
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
2 Troll Ascetic

Spells: 22
4 Berserk
4 Giant Growth
4 Rancor
4 Invigorate
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Sylvan Library

I would remove the Scout for Bogle. Makes us less vulnerable to Engineered Plague if nothing else.

Also, you aren't running enough land to support either Troll or Vines. I would either increase the lands or (better yet) switch the cards around a bit.

[paeng4983]

cut the cradles, for i think it will just sit there doing nothing
if u cannot cast two or three creatures on turn two.

A.Tombs
ESG
GSZ
dryad arbor

these cards can help you alot bondafong.

[Gui]

While being the resource we abuse the most from being monocolor without nonbasics, the manabase consistancy and ratio is the single most important thing in this deck.

Every single spell you add with higher manacost, every single land you cut, means a little more games screwed and a little more need to mulligan, and a little less chance to properly chain our spells.

While I play 17 forests and only 10 2cc spells, and 8 "free" spells (counting seal as possible to play before), you play 16 higher cost spells, with troll costing 3 and vastwood being castable @ 1, with 16 lands, and only Invigorate free.

Try to lose less to yourself, and then you can focus on changing your creatures properly in order to improve the matchups.

[paeng4983]

i've been trying this for weeks now over at cockatrice.
there were times that it sucks.
well there were also times that it rocks.
my only comment to my current build is it lacks defense.
the only defense of this is the vines of vastwoods.

im going to put jittes in it and test them. hopefully
they will give good results.

so here's what i have as of the moment
6 G_fetches
1 arbor
10 forest

1 xantid swarm
4 kavu predator
2 skyshroud cutter
4 esg
4 llanowar
1 thrun the last troll
1 scryb ranger
2 wall of blossoms

4 berserk
4 invigorate
4 vines of vastwood

3 reverent silence

3 GSZ
2 W.tutor

2 sylvan library
2 jitte

[Gui]

i've been trying this for weeks now over at cockatrice.
there were times that it sucks.
well there were also times that it rocks.
my only comment to my current build is it lacks defense.
the only defense of this is the vines of vastwoods.

Could you share why it sucked and why it rocked?
Also, what does it mean to lack defense? Lack of Silhana? Lack of counterspell?

You run a really different list, care to elaborate?

[paeng4983]

it sucks, times wherein i drew trash, like drawing cutters without any kavu on the floor.
rocks, times when i win without any aid from berserk, just pure muscles from kavu and friends.
rocks again, times when i can fish out kavu or thrun instantly due to gsz.
rocks again, times when i vov on kavu in protecting it against removals. :)

lack of defense, because i feel that vov is not enough protection in my deck

from the looks of it, it somewhat have a different list. but has the same game plan. as our traditional one.
:)

Proper capitalization and punctuation are required on these boards. Please use them. We understand that English is not your first language, but capitals and periods are standard even in Tagalog. Thanks. -zilla

[Gui]

from the looks of it, it somewhat have a different list. but has the same game plan. as our traditional one.
:)

Not really, they are a lot different. You have a lot of accelerators, and a lot of higher costs, and walls... in the place where I have 12 1cc creatures which have power 2. This can look the same, but it's not. The few 2 dmgs I connect by second and third turns actually makes the difference later, not to say the swarm of 1ccs is harder to control, unless with board sweppers. With your list, you could even play NO and never get screwed. It doesn't play the aggro role (land creature -> tap -> cast few pumps -> win). Also, with so little amount of growths, how can Zerk really be effective?

I'm not advocating you to change your whole list, just sayin' that it's a lot different from regular Zerk Stompy, that's all. Maybe your list wins more/works better for you, I can't tell, I never really tested.

[paeng4983]

give it a try gui. :) let me know your thoughts afterwards
:)

[Gui]

give it a try gui. :) let me know your thoughts afterwards
:)

Sorry, but I'll have to pass... I don't have time to try even my personal ones (hell, who invented this thing called Job? xD)

[KBH]

Skinshifter is secretly a juiced up Rogue Elephant in disguise. Which I guess is ironic considering that he is "shifty" and Rogue is anything but.

This guy costs you G every turn and so does Rogue. Rogue doesn't cost you 2 to cast but you will never cast Rogue with one forest anyway.

The plus side is that you get 4/4 trample on the attack rather than 3/3 and flying when that is relevant. The 0/8 might be usable as well since it is like having a much better giant growth vs burn on their turn. (+0/+7)

[lyracian]

Skinshifter is secretly a juiced up Rogue Elephant in disguise. Which I guess is ironic considering that he is "shifty" and Rogue is anything but.

The Trample/Evasion is nice but for the same cost I can have scavenging ooze; who starts bigger and stays bigger while gaining you life and can shrink Tarmogoyf. You do need dead creatures (your own or opponents) for that to work though it just seems a better overall card for the deck as you do not need to activate it every turn.

[rupus]

Anyone tried out Gladeclover Scout? I don't really play this deck (outside of a game or two in mwsplay when I'm tired of "real" decks) but she seems pretty solid. I think probably jungle lion would be who I would cut.

Pros:
Built in protection
1 cmc

Cons:
No evasion
Only 1 power

Still, when I saw this guy in the spoiler I immediately thought silhana junior. Here's the list I run when I play this deck:

Land
10x Forest
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Windswept Heath
1x Dryad Arbor
Creature
4x Gladecover Scout
4x Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4x Skyshroud Elite
4x Kavu Predator
4x Silhana Ledgewalker
2x Scryb Sprites
Instant
4x Berserk
3x Might of Old Krosa
4x Invigorate
Enchantment
3x Rancor
3x Seal of Strength
3x Sylvan Library

Some notes:
3 libraries. They are so good. A library can single handedly beat control decks. I usually keep a 4th in the board. Don't forget that if you have 2 out you can fetch before resolving the second one so you can see 2 more.
1 dryad arbor. I think every list needs one. He can be fetched up for a free dude that's uncounterable which is always good. I have 18 lands because I like to side him out vs wasteland heavy decks and also he sucks at being a land. A side benefit is that people might put you on Natural Order if they see him and play wrong.
3 rancor, 3 might of old krosa. I needed to cut something for the extra land and library and these are the two I am most often disappointed with. Actually, I want to try groundswell in place of mook but probably mook is better. Gladecover scout might make rancor good enough to go back to 4 in which case I might cut a goyf.

By the way, has anyone taken this deck to any tournament recently? Even like a small shop one. I would love to hear about it. I might try this out at a local tourney but I only have 1 berserk and IDK if I want to drop the money for more so I probably won't. I'll try rocking it over at magic league when I have some time.

[boneclub24]

Anyone tried out Gladeclover Scout? I don't really play this deck (outside of a game or two in mwsplay when I'm tired of "real" decks) but she seems pretty solid. I think probably jungle lion would be who I would cut.

It's a near-functional reprint of Slippery Bogle, which is a card we cut a long time ago.


Pros:
Built in protection
1 cmc

Cons:
No evasion
Only 1 power

Still, when I saw this guy in the spoiler I immediately thought silhana junior. Here's the list I run when I play this deck:

Land
10x Forest
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Windswept Heath
1x Dryad Arbor
Creature
4x Gladecover Scout
4x Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4x Skyshroud Elite
4x Kavu Predator
4x Silhana Ledgewalker
2x Scryb Sprites
Instant
4x Berserk
3x Might of Old Krosa
4x Invigorate
Enchantment
3x Rancor
3x Seal of Strength
3x Sylvan Library

Some notes:
3 libraries. They are so good. A library can single handedly beat control decks. I usually keep a 4th in the board. Don't forget that if you have 2 out you can fetch before resolving the second one so you can see 2 more.
1 dryad arbor. I think every list needs one. He can be fetched up for a free dude that's uncounterable which is always good. I have 18 lands because I like to side him out vs wasteland heavy decks and also he sucks at being a land. A side benefit is that people might put you on Natural Order if they see him and play wrong.
3 rancor, 3 might of old krosa. I needed to cut something for the extra land and library and these are the two I am most often disappointed with. Actually, I want to try groundswell in place of mook but probably mook is better. Gladecover scout might make rancor good enough to go back to 4 in which case I might cut a goyf.

I honestly find just 2 Library to be enough, but if it works for you it works. I would seriously cut it back for another Rancor. Rancor is ridiculous.

Groundswell is actually pretty good. I run it in my lowland stompy due to the synergy with Quirion Ranger, which we run 2 of. Kinda.

The main thing I would do is cut the Scout for Jungle Lion.


By the way, has anyone taken this deck to any tournament recently? Even like a small shop one. I would love to hear about it. I might try this out at a local tourney but I only have 1 berserk and IDK if I want to drop the money for more so I probably won't. I'll try rocking it over at magic league when I have some time.

It's no doubt the deck is really fun. I haven't gone to a tourney with it yet, but I have been using it in MWS and Cockatrice. Works really well for me. I'm gonna be taking it to a tourney soon, though, once I get the Jungle Lions I need.

[rupus]

It's a near-functional reprint of Slippery Bogle, which is a card we cut a long time ago.



I honestly find just 2 Library to be enough, but if it works for you it works. I would seriously cut it back for another Rancor. Rancor is ridiculous.

Groundswell is actually pretty good. I run it in my lowland stompy due to the synergy with Quirion Ranger, which we run 2 of. Kinda.

The main thing I would do is cut the Scout for Jungle Lion.



It's no doubt the deck is really fun. I haven't gone to a tourney with it yet, but I have been using it in MWS and Cockatrice. Works really well for me. I'm gonna be taking it to a tourney soon, though, once I get the Jungle Lions I need.

Yeah, library could definitely be 2. It's sooo good in some matchups and meh in others. I would definitely pack 3 somewhere in my 75 though because of how gamebreaking it is vs control. You are right about rancor though. I think it should probably go back to 4. I never liked jungle lion because he lacks protection and/or evasion and usually isn't as big as pit-skulk or skyshroud elite. Still I totally forgot about bogel and I guess there's probably good reasons to play lion over him. I would be very interested to hear your thoughts about some of the matchups you've played. Also, hopefully you get to play this soon, I can't wait to hear about it.

[Gui]

Yeah, library could definitely be 2. It's sooo good in some matchups and meh in others. I would definitely pack 3 somewhere in my 75 though because of how gamebreaking it is vs control. You are right about rancor though. I think it should probably go back to 4. I never liked jungle lion because he lacks protection and/or evasion and usually isn't as big as pit-skulk or skyshroud elite. Still I totally forgot about bogel and I guess there's probably good reasons to play lion over him. I would be very interested to hear your thoughts about some of the matchups you've played. Also, hopefully you get to play this soon, I can't wait to hear about it.

Sylvan is actually amazing against control, indeed. I like the 3rd @ SB against them, all of them, any kind of controlish deck ^^

Jungle over Bogle is rather simple: It deals more dmg. Problem with this deck is not being able to deal the amount of damage it needs to in enough time. Running at least 12 2/x for :g: is a necessary evil, even if you got to run less protection as Bogle.

Lion over Elite is just because most control decks can afford fetching basics for the starting turns, delaying you.

[lyracian]

Jungle over Bogle is rather simple: It deals more dmg. Problem with this deck is not being able to deal the amount of damage it needs to in enough time. Running at least 12 2/x for :g: is a necessary evil, even if you got to run less protection as Bogle.
If I was only going to run one of them what are your thoughts on Jungle Lion vs Nettle Sentinel?

[Gui]

If I was only going to run one of them what are your thoughts on Jungle Lion vs Nettle Sentinel?

Nettle Sentinel all day. Best 1cc creature for this deck, IMO.

Which creatures are you running?

[rupus]

So what do you think about -4 scouts +4 lions, -1 library +1 rancor?

Also, here's my tentative sideboard:
1 library
3 hidden herd
4 seal of primodium
3 autumns veil
2 scavenging ooze
2 compost

What do you guys think? Should seal be natures claim? K grip? Naturalize? Is vexing shusher better than veil? I chose veil because I find shusher to be very mana intensive. Compost and ooze are very flexible slots. I like the idea of ooze though but I might be better off with more grave hate. In terms of combo matchups should I just cross my fingers or do you think something like chalice (at 0 of course) or thorn of amethyst is worth it? I would love to hear your boarding plans and what you think about certain matchups. Also, here is my boarding strategy for now:

UW Mystic
+4 seal, +1 library, +3 herd, +3 veil
-4 elite, -2 skulk, -2 lion, -3 mook

My goal here is to keep batterskull dead, avoid 2 for ones, and minimize the impact of misstep.

Merfolk
+1 library, +3 veil, +4 seal
-4 elite, -3 mook, -1 skulk

The goal here is pretty similar to mystic. Seals come in premptively to hit jittes but even if they aren't running them they can hit vials.

Zoo
+3 herd
-2 library, -1 skulk

This looks like a tough matchup. I'm leaning very heavily on silhana to take this one. Because of this keeping libraries might be correct. If it proves too horrible I might add vines of vastwood. Another possibility is to bring in oozes for skulks. Oozes will shrink their goyfs and knights and potentially out class their dudes. Seals can come in if they run SFM or equipment.

Goblins
+3 herd, +1 library
-4 elite

Speed is key here. Seal might need to come in but I think it might be too slow. Library #3 might be wrong but I want it to help get the last few points in.

BUG still
+1ibrary, +3 herd, +2 compost, +3 veil
-4 lion, -3 mook, -2 sprite

Library is more important here than any other matchup. Don't overextend into deeds. Seals might need to come in for deeds. If they rely heavily on loam ooze might be good. Again the idea is to avoid 2 for 1s with veil and use compost and library to push through the last few points.

Painter
+4 seal
-2 sprite, -2 rancor

Here I want to be fast and try to hot there pieces with seal. If they have heavy counters veil might need to come in.

Hive mind
Pray. IDK how to make this good.

ANT/TES/etc
+2 compost, +4 seal
-2 library, -4 silhana

Seal their mana and use compost to negate their discard. Go fast. Still a tough matchup though.

Other potential sideboard cards:
Null rod, vexing shusher, k grip, natures claim, naturalize, choke, pithing needle/beatle

There's probably some super hot tech I'm missing.

[lyracian]

Nettle Sentinel all day. Best 1cc creature for this deck, IMO.
Which creatures are you running?
Playing around with ideas but thought I would go with this
Creatures: 22
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Nettle Sentinal
4 Vault Skirge
4 Kavu Predator
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
2 Thrun the Last Troll

[lyracian]

Nettle Sentinel all day. Best 1cc creature for this deck, IMO.
Which creatures are you running?
Playing around with ideas but thought I would go with this
Creatures: 22
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Nettle Sentinal
4 Vault Skirge
4 Kavu Predator
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
2 Thrun the Last Troll

[Gui]

@ Lyracian

Thrun is sideboard material. Unless you are expecting BUG standstill to be the most played, I'd move then to SB

Also, Vault skirge is good, but 2/1 are usually the better call... I'd cut 1-2 of these too and add the 3~4 missing lions/tattermunge/elite

@rupus
Looks solid. I don't think you need the dryad arbor.

Also, I'm into testing Viridian Zealot MD instead of Kavu. I know it's slower, but if you got to rely on the 2cc creatures, you already are slowed down. Then you could save a primordium or 2. Primordium is decent, btw. IMHO, better than Grip and Claim for us.

[boneclub24]

So what do you think about -4 scouts +4 lions, -1 library +1 rancor?

Also, here's my tentative sideboard:
1 library
3 hidden herd
4 seal of primodium
3 autumns veil
2 scavenging ooze
2 compost

What do you guys think? Should seal be natures claim? K grip? Naturalize? Is vexing shusher better than veil? I chose veil because I find shusher to be very mana intensive. Compost and ooze are very flexible slots. I like the idea of ooze though but I might be better off with more grave hate. In terms of combo matchups should I just cross my fingers or do you think something like chalice (at 0 of course) or thorn of amethyst is worth it? I would love to hear your boarding plans and what you think about certain matchups.

The main thing I would do is cut the Ooze for more traditional graveyard hate. The decks that need the GY hate are decks that will warren mass-removal of the graveyard. Ooze is too mana-intensive and slow IMHO. Autmn's Veil is decent, I will try it out. Also, I run Seal for my side as well. Very effective.

[paeng4983]

i don't know if anyone will be interested, but i'll post this anyway:

the night before july 17, i play tested this deck to check if this can race/ go against the current meta with my brother (burn) and cousin (i lend him our TES) and 3 of their friends. they brought decks with proxies. we just have it casual yet we decided to have the spirit of competitiveness for us to prepare for tomorrow's tournament.

here's the list that i run
6 G_fetches
1 drayd arbor
8 forest
2 wasteland

1 xantid swarm
4 kavu predator
2 skyshroud cutter
4 esg
4 noble
1 thrun the last troll
1 scryb ranger
2 wall of blossoms

4 berserk
4 invigorate
4 vines of vastwood

3 reverent silence

3 GSZ
2 Worldly tutor

2 sylvan library
2 umezawa's jitte

SB:
4 rushwood legate
3 seal of primordium
2 fog
3 vexing susher
1 gaea's blessing
2 lifeforce

burn, TES, berserk, gobs, BW, reanimator, were the decks we used.

i picked the reanimator as my 1st opponent because i felt that it is the most bad MU.
G1: i play 1st, drop forest, GSZ into arbor. STRONG! ok. him u.sea dark rit, entomb fetching iona then reanimate. naming = green. F*ck next game...
G2: 1st turn via forest and ESG kavu with a skyshroud cutter. sweet. him, u.sea entomb fetch iona pass the turn. my 2nd turn, i win with invigorate and berserk. he doesn't have any countermagic.
G3:he kept on digging, brainstorm, ponder but wasn't able to dug up for any reaminate relevant spells for this game. also, i wasted his early duals. i cast kavu in my 3rd or 4th turn and let he it resolved. then next turn i cast invigorate, it met his FOW, kavu still grew. and i win via slow aggro.

i chose rb_gobs as my next opponent
G1:1st turn lackey, into gang commander with 3 peers. turns passed by, i was like down to 3 him at 18. he had a bunch of gobs on his side while i only have a thrun and 3 forest. my hands were invigorate, VoV and berserk. i attacked thrun he block it with a gob. i pumped thurn making it 24/12. "before damage, he cast weirding wow!
G2: kavu was simply to big for his gobs to handle.
G3: an early wall keeps lackey at bay. also, library did a good job in fixing my draw. then went GSZ fetching kavu. after fetching cast my 2 cutters. he laughed and scooped. i win!

3rd play testmate, b/w with sfm
G1: he won the die roll. he goes scrubland S.D.top. i wasted his scrub. he got screwed for the next few turns while my ranger with exalted off noble chipped off 6 of his life pts before thrun came. i win
G2: i mulled to 6 and drew a pile of very good cards. kavu, reverent, lifeforce, berserk, waste, forest. but he had drawn much better. GFT and dark depths ftw!
G3: he cannot target my thrun with his removals. i win crawling with thrun. :D

4th play buddie, TES
he just kept on miscalulating, misplaying. he i took advantage of it even if its just a casual thing. :D

my conclusion with my deck:
if the meta will be a U_base one, it's prone to counter magic.
if the meta will be an ocean of control decks, Vov and thrun should be in your hand.
if the meta will be combo, i will just pray hard to see no TOA or ETW or brainfreeze.
if the meta will be an aggro one, this has a chance of winning. :D

in the end, i decided not to use this for tomorrow's tourney and picked TES instead.
i won 3-0, i just wished that i still have lucks tomorrow.
the lucky bastard ended 7th place. :)

anyway
does anyone here used this deck in a sanctioned tourney?
:)

[paeng4983]

(message deleted, double post. sorry)

[rupus]

Interesting list. Maindeck silence especially. Silhana ledgewalker is the best creature in the deck. You should get some. Also, vs gobbos weirding is a sorcery so you should've won that one.

EDIT: I would play viridian shaman vs zealot. Zealot either needs to live a turn or have 4 mana to do anything. Shaman also has an extra point of toughness which isn't entirely irrelevant.

4 mana for thrun is very expensive. Great sable stag might be better. What I'm really worried about is NO RUG. Is it even possible to win that? Countermagic, bolt, fire/ice and/or chain lightning, lavamancer and a quick clock is just so brutal.

Ooze isn't as good as I want him to be. Neither is compost. I'm not sure what to cut but I would like to add great sable stags, chokes, some grave hate, maybe vines, scryb rangers, and possible bogels or gladecover scouts to the board. I'm going to think long and hard and get back with some revised boarding plans. In the meantime I would love to hear your thoughts about matchups and boarding.

[paeng4983]

Interesting list. vs gobbos weirding is a sorcery so you should've won that one.

Ooze isn't as good as I want him to be. Neither is compost. I'm not sure what to cut but I would like to add great sable stags, chokes, some grave hate, maybe vines, scryb rangers, and possible bogels or gladecover scouts to the board. I'm going to think long and hard and get back with some revised boarding plans. In the meantime I would love to hear your thoughts about matchups and boarding.

yeah, i remember after that game, he reminded me that it was a sorcery. he had an asian version of it that's why at 1st i thought it was an instant. all i knew at that point was that thrun dies to an eddict like spell :)
lesson learned: reading and analyzing is tech.

i will consider SSG and give it a try in my other testings.
choke and other SB materials are also noted. :)

[boneclub24]

I haven't gotten to a sanctioned tourney yet, but a store here hosts them on the 3rd tuesday of every month, so I should get a least SOME testing in.

[rupus]

yeah, i remember after that game, he reminded me that it was a sorcery. he had an asian version of it that's why at 1st i thought it was an instant. all i knew at that point was that thrun dies to an eddict like spell :)
lesson learned: reading and analyzing is tech.

i will consider SSG and give it a try in my other testings.
choke and other SB materials are also noted. :)

Lol I relearn that lesson every day it seems like. Anyways, I like the zenith tech in your list but I was wondering about your maindeck silences and wall of blossoms. Also, worldly tutor seems odd especially with you already have zenith. Also how was jitte? It seems quite mana intensive. Lifeforce is interesting tech. I think compost might be better though because lifeforce sucks up tons of mana. Lastly fog is an odd choice.

[paeng4983]

Lol I relearn that lesson every day it seems like. Anyways, I like the zenith tech in your list but I was wondering about your maindeck silences and wall of blossoms. Also, worldly tutor seems odd especially with you already have zenith. Also how was jitte? It seems quite mana intensive. Lifeforce is interesting tech. I think compost might be better though because lifeforce sucks up tons of mana. Lastly fog is an odd choice.

yeah, that's what i did last sunday's tournament. i made sure that i read all the cards my opponent plays. :)

anyway, regarding some explanation:
xantid is good against counterbase decks. FOW, daze, spell snare, pierce and MM make us feel we are in hell whenever we are paired to them, especially during game ones. so applying the principle that i learned from using a TES deck, adding a xantid in my MD boosted my chance of winning. having an insurance on your table makes u happy. invigorate invigorate berserk? priceless! yeah i only inserted one, GSZ is there to fetch it. also i dont want to draw xantid if i am paired to a non counterbase deck.

wall of blossoms, two reasons, 1st it can buy u enough time to establish your batallion and 2nd, its a card advantage at the same time.

w.tutor is there to help me find skyshroud cutter or kavu which ever comes 1st in my hand if gsz is not around.

well, jitte is the thing im still not certain if i will have them in my MD or replaced it by something else.
but just on the face of it, jitte is good.

yeah lifeforce! black is my kryptonight. i hate mono B decks! compost is not working that well to me.

im a big fan of fog. it saved my ass a billion times. give it a try :)

[rupus]

yeah, that's what i did last sunday's tournament. i made sure that i read all the cards my opponent plays. :)

anyway, regarding some explanation:
xantid is good against counterbase decks. FOW, daze, spell snare, pierce and MM make us feel we are in hell whenever we are paired to them, especially during game ones. so applying the principle that i learned from using a TES deck, adding a xantid in my MD boosted my chance of winning. having an insurance on your table makes u happy. invigorate invigorate berserk? priceless! yeah i only inserted one, GSZ is there to fetch it. also i dont want to draw xantid if i am paired to a non counterbase deck.

wall of blossoms, two reasons, 1st it can buy u enough time to establish your batallion and 2nd, its a card advantage at the same time.

w.tutor is there to help me find skyshroud cutter or kavu which ever comes 1st in my hand if gsz is not around.

well, jitte is the thing im still not certain if i will have them in my MD or replaced it by something else.
but just on the face of it, jitte is good.

yeah lifeforce! black is my kryptonight. i hate mono B decks! compost is not working that well to me.

im a big fan of fog. it saved my ass a billion times. give it a try :)

Xantid makes a lot of sense with gsz. I might even consider it in the board without zeniths. Worldly tutor still seems odd to me because of the card disadvantage. Wall of blossoms makes sense vs other aggro. I might consider some for the zoo matchup. Jitte might be better off just being another pump spell but in theory it seems alright. Lifeforce still seems expensive. Do you have the mana to use it enough for it to be relevant? I will test fog but I wonder if moment's peace would be better. I'm also still confused about the maindeck reverent silences. What are they for? They seem dead it lots of matchups. Did you have trouble vs burn? That seems like a rough matchup especially without Silhana or other troll shroud (I guess hexproof now) guys. Have you tested vs NO RUG or zoo at all? I'm super scared of both and was wondering if anyone knows how to make those matchups better.

[paeng4983]

Lifeforce still seems expensive. Do you have the mana to use it enough for it to be relevant? I will test fog but I wonder if moment's peace would be better. I'm also still confused about the maindeck reverent silences. What are they for? They seem dead it lots of matchups. Did you have trouble vs burn? That seems like a rough matchup especially without Silhana or other troll shroud (I guess hexproof now) guys. Have you tested vs NO RUG or zoo at all? I'm super scared of both and was wondering if anyone knows how to make those matchups better.

yeah, lifeforce is expense. i cannot think of other card to f*ck B-spells using our deck

reverent silences are there to feed kavu. they're not dead. that's why i have GSZ or
w.tutor for fetching kavu/ s.cutter (for w.tutor) if i have invigorate/r.silence/s.cutter (kavu) in my hand.

hexproof, through vov, only for kavu so that it wont die to spot removals.

vs. burn, i have no problem, especially is kavu reaches 5/5. however, just like any other decks, if the deck gives me irrelevant cards, then i might lose to whatever i am facing.

i havent test vs. NO RUG and zoo and other decks.

we will have a small legacy later at r4. i will use this and see if it can perform well in this meta:ANT, elfball, merfolk, reanimator, gobs, soul sister, mbc, bw, counterthopter.
^_^

[rupus]

I've been playing this a bit recently and I really like the main deck I have posted on the last page. The only changes I've made have been to the sideboard:
-2 scavenging ooze -3 autumn's veil,
+2 tormod's Crypt, +1 relic of progenitus, +2 great sable stag

Ooze wasn't as good as I wanted it to be so I put in some standard grave hate. Autumn's veil was good at times but stag has proven to be super hot fresh out the oven tech. In fact, I might even cut one seal of primordium for a third. The only problem is that he is way high up on the curve. I also like the idea of viridian shaman somewhere because seal is cool but shaman is card advantage. Still, it's pretty high on the curve. If I were to take this to a tournament tomorrow this is the list I would run:

Land 17
10 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath

Creature 22
4 Jungle Lion
2 Scryb Sprites
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Kavu Predator
4 Silhana Ledgewalker

Instant 12
4 Berserk
4 Invigorate
4 Might of Old Krosa

Enchantment 9
4 Rancor
3 Seal of Strength
2 Sylvan Library

Sideboard
2 Compost
2 Great Sable Stag
3 Hidden Herd
4 Seal of Primordium
1 Sylvan Library
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt

This list is pretty tuned and I think it can compete with most decks right now. I still haven't done any testing vs Zoo or NO RUG but they look as abysmal as ever. I would just hope to avoid them and get the nuts if I do. Otherwise I think I would need to dedicate too much sideboard space to shore them up. The only thing I would consider is -2 compost +2 slippery bogle or gladecover scout but compost rocks it hardcore and I tend to see lots of blackjank.dec. No major changes in my sideboard so the strategies I outlined last page are pretty much the same with Great Sable Stags replacing the autumn's veils and Relics and Crypts the oozes. Berserks are next on my list of cards to buy, but I don't know when I'll have the cash to spare for them. Hopefully soon so I can take it to a local tourney and report back.

EDIT: When I get the chance I'm going to see if I can find some old vintage information on Green Stompy vs Sligh (seeing as that is similar to zerk vs zoo or the problem cards in NO RUG) and see if I can find some hidden tech.

[boneclub24]

Land 17
10 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath

Creature 22
4 Jungle Lion
2 Scryb Sprites
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Kavu Predator
4 Silhana Ledgewalker

Instant 12
4 Berserk
4 Invigorate
4 Might of Old Krosa

Enchantment 9
4 Rancor
3 Seal of Strength
2 Sylvan Library

Sideboard
2 Compost
2 Great Sable Stag
3 Hidden Herd
4 Seal of Primordium
1 Sylvan Library
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt

The only change I would make is -2 Scryb Sprites +2 Vault Skirge. It gets around Mental Misstep and Perish.

I also really like the Stag. Will test it out in the SB.

[rupus]

The only change I would make is -2 Scryb Sprites +2 Vault Skirge. It gets around Mental Misstep and Perish.

I also really like the Stag. Will test it out in the SB.

Vault skirge is an awesome idea. He will also probably help shore up zoo which has been a bit rough. I will definitely put him in he basically seems strictly better than sprite. Definitely test out the stags. They are very good. They basically do everything I want thrun to do while actually being castable. 4 mana is brutal with only 17 lands and no manipulation except 2 libraries. Speaking of libraries God damn that's a good card. Anyway I always feel good when this thread is on the first page. :D

[rupus]

Just thought of some pro tech. Spellskite. It could definitely help vs zoo and burn which have been quite difficult. I might try cutting the composts for them. Compost hasn't been that awesome for me. But I always seem to see some kind of blackjank.dec at least once everywhere I go.

[boneclub24]

Stag has actually test better than I thought it would. Sadly, most decks with Black also run White, so the Stag isn't as effective against them. However, against Eva Green or other decks like that, it is pretty nice. Sure, they run Edicts, but you almost always have something else to sac anyway.

This is my current board.

Sideboard: 15
4 Rushwood Legate
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Seal of Primordium
2 Winter Orb
2 Great Sable Stag
1 Relic of Progenitus

Also, let's hope these green Werewolves in the next block deliver the goods!

[lyracian]

Werewolf Mechanic is out and I can not see it being any use to this deck
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/157a

If it had been the other way around (opponent has to cast no spells to get it to transform back) I could see a use for it.

Flashback is back so lets hope for a decent pump.

[lyracian]

Werewolf Mechanic is out and I can not see it being any use to this deck
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/157a

If it had been the other way around (opponent has to cast no spells to get it to transform back) I could see a use for it.

Flashback is back so lets hope for a decent pump.

[boneclub24]

Werewolf Mechanic is out and I can not see it being any use to this deck
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/157a

If it had been the other way around (opponent has to cast no spells to get it to transform back) I could see a use for it.

Flashback is back so lets hope for a decent pump.

Yeah, I was disappointed :(

At least I can use them for funsies.

[orcanmail]

Do we need vexing shusher main deck now that mental misstep can easily negate our berserks? Berserk is our power card and we need it to go off on our ledgewalkers.

[tsabo_tavoc]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?21977-INN-Spoiler-discussion&p=581291&viewfull=1#post581291

Now we reach the density for a removal-proof version.

2 Tropical Island
2 Taiga
2 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacomb
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Noble Hierarch
3 Slippery Bogle
4 Silhana Legalwalker
4 Invisible Stalker
4 Green Sun's Zenith

4 Invigorate
4 Berserk
4 Assault Strobe
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Groundswell (I wish Gaea's Might could work!)

4 Brainstorm

[lyracian]

If you are not running Kavu I would not go with Invigorate. I would use Unstable Mutation or just good old Giant Growth.

Not convinced though that Invisible Stalker is worth splashing blue for. You slow the deck down and gain very little protection. Against many opponents Stalker is no better than Ledgewalker.

[Gui]

If you are not running Kavu I would not go with Invigorate. I would use Unstable Mutation or just good old Giant Growth.

Not convinced though that Invisible Stalker is worth splashing blue for. You slow the deck down and gain very little protection. Against many opponents Stalker is no better than Ledgewalker.

It is worth, as long as you add the counter package as well... there's no reason, if splashing blue, for not running Mental Misstep, Daze and FoW, except the budget reason.

And Invigorate is way too good not to run, even without Kavu. Believe me, my last version of monogreen featured Zealot instead of Kavu and Invigorate was still a MVP. And Seal as well, helping smooth the mana into huge Berserks.

[lyracian]

It is worth, as long as you add the counter package as well... there's no reason, if splashing blue, for not running Mental Misstep, Daze and FoW, except the budget reason.With about half your spells then being blue it is not really splashing but a new deck. It might be better to start with a blue deck that is splashing green for Berserk and some pumps...

[Gui]

With about half your spells then being blue it is not really splashing but a new deck. It might be better to start with a blue deck that is splashing green for Berserk and some pumps...

True, will do that.

[tsabo_tavoc]

It is worth, as long as you add the counter package as well... there's no reason, if splashing blue, for not running Mental Misstep, Daze and FoW, except the budget reason.

And Invigorate is way too good not to run, even without Kavu. Believe me, my last version of monogreen featured Zealot instead of Kavu and Invigorate was still a MVP. And Seal as well, helping smooth the mana into huge Berserks.

The counter suite seems obvious, but not really suited for this deck (NO budget concerns). For my list, a very combo oriented version, the win condition is 1 creature + 3 pumps. Adding counters dilute the plan, not to mention the FOW pitch.

Furthermore, why does this deck need counters? Storm decks fold to counters because of getting X-1 ed, but not to discards, the 1-1 trades. This deck gets X-1 ed by spot removals, and Hexproof gets around it. Without the fear for spot removals, there is no point to play Mental Misstep. Counters can be threatening if they aim at your critical pump spells, but only when you have no backups in hand. Therefore, instead of playing counters, having more pump spells (especially more *2/*1 effects) is a more effective solution. Against discards, more pumps is also better than more counters. Counters are only good against combos faster than us, for which we can try to address in the SB.

As the cheap Hexproofers are 1/1s, pump spells should be at least +4/+4 to enable the 3 pumps kill. Unstable Mutation and Rancor do not fit. Invigorate is only better than +3/+3s when 2 *2/*1s are involved, but it is free, and there are no other qualified +4/+4s.

I never said Stalker > Legalwalker, but I play 8 Legalwalkers now + 4 GSZ. The redundancy is critical for the combo plan. For the blue splash, it is a pity not to have FOW or Misstep, but don't forget the best blue card is Brainstorm, and Brainstorm is the god in combo decks.

[Gui]

I've posted a list regarding the Blue Zerk with counters at another thread.

@tsabo_tavoc
I disagree, if you are using subpart power-per-mana ratio, and intend to go "combo", the counter suit will do two things for you:
a) counter opposing counters, protecting your combo
b) help your creatures surviving
c) counter opposing walls

Of course hexproof already is a lot resiliant in the surviving plan, but still, with that amount of unblockable hexproof creatures, you don't need threat density, with ~12 of these, you are praticaly assured to stick a beater. I managed to fit ~12 creatures with ~18 pumps in the list.

Besides, the deck need counters because they can counter your Berserks when you don't have another. At least in my view, the deck is way better with the counter suit, if you are going to use blue.

Another thing worth noting is that Jitte works wonders with 8~12 silhanas. Really worth using it.

[bondafong]

This is my current Hexproof Stompy idea:

4 Gladecover Scout
4 Slippery Bogle
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Invisible Stalker

2 Sylvan Library

4 Rancor
4 Briar Shield
4 Unstable Mutation
2 Berserk

4 Daze
4 MM
4 FoW

4 Tropical Island
8 Fetches
4 Forest
2 Islands


2 cards still needs to be removed.

[tsabo_tavoc]

I've posted a list regarding the Blue Zerk with counters at another thread.

@tsabo_tavoc
I disagree, if you are using subpart power-per-mana ratio, and intend to go "combo", the counter suit will do two things for you:
a) counter opposing counters, protecting your combo
b) help your creatures surviving
c) counter opposing walls

Of course hexproof already is a lot resiliant in the surviving plan, but still, with that amount of unblockable hexproof creatures, you don't need threat density, with ~12 of these, you are praticaly assured to stick a beater. I managed to fit ~12 creatures with ~18 pumps in the list.

Besides, the deck need counters because they can counter your Berserks when you don't have another. At least in my view, the deck is way better with the counter suit, if you are going to use blue.

Another thing worth noting is that Jitte works wonders with 8~12 silhanas. Really worth using it.

You already answered b) and c) are not the concerns for 12 Ledgewalker.dec. For a), if they counter a creature, go and find another Legalwalker. Most probably, they try to x-1 you by countering your critical pump spell, in which case, having 4 pumps is similar as having 3 pumps + 1 counter. My philosophy is overloading pumps to win the counter war. The density I referred was pump density, not creature density. I play 8 Berserks AND 4 BRAINSTORM to maintain the redundancy of *2/*1, losing a Berserk to a counter becomes usually affordable. The only slop for my philosophy is pump costs 1 but counters are free, that is why I play Noble Hierarch which is mana + pump.

Now, let's examine the flaws for playing counters as protection. The key problem is that they are conditional. Mental Misstep only counters Misstep and Discard, but another pump counters any counters and discard spells. Daze is even worse, how would any permission deck tap out and counter your spell on your turn 3/4? FOW is the only universal counter, and you know you would rather have 1 mana + 1 pump spell than 1 card in hand + 1 FOW.

That said, counters are good to address b) and a) in traditional Berserk Stompy, and Infect Stompy. I play 4 Misstep + 4 FOW + 2 Daze in GUb Infect Stompy. I sacrifice the pump density there because only 2 of them are required for a combo finish. Even there, the MVP blue card is Brianstorm. However, with only Hexproof and evasive creatures, 12 Ledgewalker.dec does not want counters. I would only sideboard Mental Misstep against decks having 8+ 1cc disruptions (Mental Misstep, Thoughtseize, Duress, Inquisition), but few decks pack them.

Jitte is a good suggestion. 4 mana is a lot, but it stores pumps and after 2 attacks, it is only 1 Berserk away from victory. The -1/-1 is good against Bob and Clique (Legalwalker blocker), and in certain circumstances Welder and Arbor. The life gain is mostly irrelevant. I would fit 1-2 in, likely -1 Bogle, -1 pump.

[Gui]

Ok, I can see where you are going... So maybe it's worthy for you to run the counters as sideboard. They are still good solutions to opposing combos, and with bogle, stalker, brainstorm, misstep, you could easily afford FoW.

I think that 4 Groundswell could be 4 Seal of Strength to smooth the mana and the first turn drops.

Jitte really looks strong. Maybe even running 3 of it, since it's an excelent alternative plan and it still pumps for Zerk. And :4: payed as :2:+:2: is not that hard, since you already need 2 for most of your creatures, and still needs 3 for a GSZ to turn into a Silhana.

[paeng4983]

I don't think pairing the this deck with counters is a good idea. Adding counter spells in our deck would mean we'll have to lessen some pump or creature slots just to squeeze in these counter spells.

Just a suggestion, if you really would want to use counter spells with berserk, why not go the UG infect way. The cantrips and counter spells in this deck are use to protect his, not the other way around.

here's what i have for that:
4 tropical island
2 bayou
4 misty rainforest
4 verdant catacomb
4 inkmoth nexus

4 distortion strike
4 daze
4 mental misstep
4 brainstorm

4 blighted agent
4 Glistener Elf
2 plague stinger

4 mutagenic growth
4 invigorate
4 bounty of the hunt
4 berserk

*Or you can just go to the UG_infect thread over at the N&DD to see what are they discussing.

:)

And as of the moment, i haven't use this deck, since May I think, because spot removals and MM are rampant here . Here's what i have regarding the berserk stompy topic:

6 G_fetches
1 drayd arbor
8 forest
2 wasteland

1 xantid swarm
2 skyshroud cutter
4 kavu predator
4 esg
1 thrun the last troll
1 scryb ranger
4 noble
2 wall of blossoms
1 tarmogoyf

4 Berserk
4 Invigorate
4 Vines of vastwood

3 Reverent silence

4 GSZ
2 Worldly tutor

2 Sylvan library


:)

[paeng4983]

Hello there again fellow green maniacs!
I just came home from a 60 plus man legacy tournament here in Manila and I finished with a 4-2 record.
In chronological order, my matches were:
burn (1-2)
belcher (2-1)
sneak show (2-1)
NO rug (1-2)
merfolk (2-0)
goblins (2-0)

RE: belcher
G1: he had a strong turn two wherein he was able to produced 14 gob tokens. In my turn two, i just dropped a skarrgan then pass. In his turn 3, he swang all his token bringing me to 5. My upkeep, i looked at his life, 20. Looked my hand 1 berserk, 1 invigorate, 1 might of old krosa, 1 forest. Looked at my table, 1 skarrgan and 2 forest. Then at his side, a taiga and a bunch of tapped gob tokens. Then drew a card, another might of old krosa. Dropped my 3rd forest, attack my lone creature which was pumped two MOOK, invigorate and berserk. sweet!

G2: he fucked me on his turn one belcher. BANG...

G3: he went off via belcher. But I was luckythat his deck revealed his lone taiga on the 5th flip. Dealing only 8 damage to me. From there, he never recovered. Two jungle lions with rancors on each gave me the win! :)


RE: sneaky show
G3: I was able to bring his life to one before his sneak attack came and emrakul innahilating all my permanents. On my turn, I drew a land which i played. Then pass. He drew, but just shook his head. Then pass. I drew a rushwood legate, dropped it for free. He smiled. On his turn, he drew a card ... extended his hand. OH YEAH! Another sweet win for the berserk stumpy deck vs combo decks.

RE: gobs
G2: On my table i had a lone shilhana with rancor on her while he had a batallion of goblins. I think I was down to 9 when all his gobs swang for 24 damage, but they met my fog. :) Shilhana with enchancers (invigorate, MOOK, berserk) gave me the win when i got back my turn.

In the end, i landed with a 4-2 record.
I had a bad tie breaks that's why i did not make it in the T8.

[boneclub24]

All I know is that I would really like to be able to afford the UG Version xD

[paeng4983]

Hello there again!
I went in a tournament where a PR-pass was the top prize.
We only had it 4 rds. Here's my matches:
aluren (0-2)
GW mavs (2-1)
UB reanimator (0-2)
rg beats (2-0)

RE: aluren
Aluren into imperial into bird then bird, GG. I was not expecting this deck to be around.

RE: GW mavs
G3: in his 3rd turn, he casted mirran crusader. my 3rd turn, skarggan 2/2 plus MOOK plus 2 berserk = priceless!

RE: reanimator
iona and archon killed my dream of getting a PR-pass

RE: rg beats
3 of my kavus went 5/5 which were to much for him to handle.

[lyracian]

PREY UPON - G
Sorcery
Target creature you control fights target creature you don't control.
(They deal damage to each other)

It certainly seems like a sideboard answer to things like Peacekeeper or an annoying blocker. It is not really a punp though so I doubt it warrants main deck.

[lyracian]

PREY UPON - G
Sorcery
Target creature you control fights target creature you don't control.
(They deal damage to each other)

It certainly seems like a sideboard answer to things like Peacekeeper or an annoying blocker. It is not really a punp though so I doubt it warrants main deck.

[Gui]

This card sure looks interesting. Among its usages, it includes:

Might of Old Krosa a 2/2 (making it 6/6) -> Prey Upon a Tarmogoyf -> Attack without a blocker

[NihilObstat]

Hmm, all these new cards really seem interesting. I think I'll have to take out my Berserk and get it for some new testing :)

All these new Hexproof guys allow us to play strong cards we wouldn't do before, and prey upon is awesome. Sweet, Sweet!!!

[Gui]

Name: Ambush Viper
Cost: 1{G}
Type: Creature - Snake
Pow/Tgh: 2/1
Rules Text: Flash
Deathtouch


Doubles as unpredicted beater and removal for attacking creatures... hmmm

[lyracian]

Name: Ambush Viper
Doubles as unpredicted beater and removal for attacking creatures... hmmm
Deathtouch is nice and I do like the surprise factor.

[lyracian]

Finally. Vines for one mana!

Ranger's Guile G
Instant
Target creature you control gets +1/+1 and gains hexproof until end of turn

[boneclub24]

I'm playtesting a Peasant version (just to get extra value out of my Berserks), and someone suggested Wild Mongrel.

[NihilObstat]

I'm playtesting a Peasant version (just to get extra value out of my Berserks), and someone suggested Wild Mongrel.

I thought that Berserk was banned in Peasant.

Why would we want to play Wild Mongrel? If there was at least a nice pump with madness, but I think that he really isn't good in our deck.

[Gui]

Finally. Vines for one mana!

Ranger's Guile G
Instant
Target creature you control gets +1/+1 and gains hexproof until end of turn


*_*

[boneclub24]

*_*

I'm not really sure what this means. I really just don't care for that card (sub-optimal pump)...

[Gui]

I'm not really sure what this means. I really just don't care for that card (sub-optimal pump)...

In my view it is better than Vines of Vastwood for this deck, because it is less mana intensive (for the same :g: it gives aditional dmg for the math). I'll test this in my list, probably something like this: -2 Growth, -1 Sylvan, -1 Zealot, +4 Ranger's Guile.

Better than that would be if it was phy mana for hexproof, or :g: for +2/+2 hexproof of something like +2/+0 hexproof, but I'll try this one.

[NihilObstat]

I'm not really sure what this means. I really just don't care for that card (sub-optimal pump)...

Agree! Post testing results Gui ;)

[umbowta]

Name: Ambush Viper
Cost: 1{G}
Type: Creature - Snake
Pow/Tgh: 2/1
Rules Text: Flash
Deathtouch


Doubles as unpredicted beater and removal for attacking creatures... hmmmIt's a nice little trick but it doesn't fit with the intent of the deck. I mean we're not playing green control here.

The goal is to deal lethal damage as soon as possible no matter what their game plan is. I don't want to interact with my opponents creatures. I want to aim a loaded pit skulk at their dome and say, "dodge this".

[Gui]

Agree! Post testing results Gui ;)
So far I played 3 or 4 games with it, don't have much to say... It's indeed better than Vines of Vastwood cuz it deals damage in adition to the hexproof for :g:, but it wasn't relevant so far.



It's a nice little trick but it doesn't fit with the intent of the deck. I mean we're not playing green control here.

The goal is to deal lethal damage as soon as possible no matter what their game plan is. I don't want to interact with my opponents creatures. I want to aim a loaded pit skulk at their dome and say, "dodge this".
Makes sense. I was just pointing an option, and didn't test it yet. The good part could be the "evasion" it creates when paired against a bigger creature that the opposing player is not willing to lose.

[orcanmail]

I read on the vial goblin thread (my other deck) that mental misstep has been banned. Got to be good for berserk stompy with all our 1 drops and pumps, especially berserk on hexproof creatures which now have more chance of resolving.


So far I played 3 or 4 games with it, don't have much to say... It's indeed better than Vines of Vastwood cuz it deals damage in adition to the hexproof for :g:, but it wasn't relevant so far.



Makes sense. I was just pointing an option, and didn't test it yet. The good part could be the "evasion" it creates when paired against a bigger creature that the opposing player is not willing to lose.

[Gui]

It's a nice little trick but it doesn't fit with the intent of the deck. I mean we're not playing green control here.

The goal is to deal lethal damage as soon as possible no matter what their game plan is. I don't want to interact with my opponents creatures. I want to aim a loaded pit skulk at their dome and say, "dodge this".
What do you think of Ranger's Guile (hexproof +1/+1 for :g:) and Prey Upon(your creature fights an opponent creature for :g:)?


Here's a brew idea for test:

17 Forest
4 Jungle Lion
4 Skarrgan pit-skulk
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
2 Viridian Zealot
4 Berserk
4 Rancor
4 Invigorate
4 Seal os Strength
2 Sylvan Library
2 Prey Upon
3 Ranger's Guile
2 Giant Growth

It's not much, but will be fair to try some games. I should probably start testing 4 Guile, and probably 4 Prey too, but I figure the deck doesn't have much space for all I want to use (at least 12 1cc 2/x creatures, at least 4 Silhanas, all 16 fixed pumps: Zerk+Rancor+Invigorate+Seal, at least +2 other pumps besides the hexproof one, at least 2 Sylvan Library)

Prey Upon is situational, so I can't cut many pumps for it

[paeng4983]

What do you think of Ranger's Guile (hexproof +1/+1 for :g:) and Prey Upon(your creature fights an opponent creature for :g:)?


Here's a brew idea for test:

17 Forest
4 Jungle Lion
4 Skarrgan pit-skulk
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
2 Viridian Zealot
4 Berserk
4 Rancor
4 Invigorate
4 Seal of Strength
2 Sylvan Library
2 Prey Upon
3 Ranger's Guile
2 Giant Growth

It's not much, but will be fair to try some games. I should probably start testing 4 Guile, and probably 4 Prey too, but I figure the deck doesn't have much space for all I want to use (at least 12 1cc 2/x creatures, at least 4 Silhanas, all 16 fixed pumps: Zerk+Rancor+Invigorate+Seal, at least +2 other pumps besides the hexproof one, at least 2 Sylvan Library)

Prey Upon is situational, so I can't cut many pumps for it

Im not a fan of that prey upon card.
But i like the new VoV, though im not yet sure what to cut off for Ranger's Guile. Or i'd simply put 2 or 3 copies of it in my SB.

@ Banning of MM, horray! We can now roam again in the battlefield!

The snake with flash and deathtouch abilities is worth considering if you're expecting an aggro meta. maybe a couple of them would fit in your SB. :)
but i'd rather use fog . It torn a lot of games. :)

[Gui]

Im not a fan of that prey upon card.
But i like the new VoV, though im not yet sure what to cut off for Ranger's Guile. Or i'd simply put 2 or 3 copies of it in my SB.
Yeah, after some consideration, I decided I'll try Ranger's list first, without prey upon. I believe it's more important in general...

Something like this:

//Lands [17]
17 Forest

//Creatures [19]
4 Jungle Lion
4 Skarrgan pit-skulk
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
3 Viridian Zealot

//Pumps [21]
4 Berserk
4 Rancor
4 Invigorate
4 Seal os Strength
3 Ranger's Guile
2 Giant Growth
//Sylvan Library [3]
3 Sylvan Library

Maybe 4 is the right number, but I'll start of with 3.

[boneclub24]

Once INN comes out on Cockatrice, I can get a lot more testing it.

[paeng4983]

Yeah, after some consideration, I decided I'll try Ranger's list first, without prey upon. I believe it's more important in general...

Something like this:

//Lands [17]
17 Forest

//Creatures [19]
4 Jungle Lion
4 Skarrgan pit-skulk
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
3 Viridian Zealot

//Pumps [21]
4 Berserk
4 Rancor
4 Invigorate
4 Seal of Strength
3 Ranger's Guile
2 Giant Growth
//Sylvan Library [3]
3 Sylvan Library

Maybe 4 is the right number, but I'll start of with 3.

Why did you cut kavu off the list?
Dont you use fetches anymore?
Isnt 3 sylvan library too many?
Where are your evasions?

Your build is somewhat different from what i am using.
Maybe its just me but i tried that 17 straight forest and i was drawing dead cards not unlike with fetches, chances of drawing an answered prayer increases :)

Here's my current list for sharing purposes:

4 jungle lion
4 nettle sentinel
4 skarggan pit skulk
2 scryb sprites
2 scryb ranger
4 kavu predator
4 silhana ledgewalker

4 berserk
4 rancor
4 Might of old krosa
3 seal of strength
4 invigorate

10 forest
7 G_fetches

SB
1 gaea's blessing
3 vexing susher
4 tormod's crypt
4 mind break trap
3 seeds of innocence (affinity is popular here for some reason, and if you'll reach top8, you encounter the MUD aggro legacy thing)

or this SB line up
4 rushwood legate (if i am expecting an ocean of blue decks variants)
4 tormod's crypt
4 mind breaktrap
2 fog
1 gaea's blessing

Here are some of my SB materials
2 wrap invigor = for rock/ junk decks. also for those who loves to use mass non regen removals
3 vines of vastwood = if i am expecting decks that has only spot removals (such as zoo, burn/ sligh and the like)
2 needle = for those who loves to use activated abilities
4 N.O & 1 progen = sometimes for transformational surprise. ^_^

[umbowta]

What do you think of Ranger's Guile (hexproof +1/+1 for :g:) and Prey Upon(your creature fights an opponent creature for :g:)?


Keeping in line with the deck intent, Prey Upon is not even in my realm of consideration. It's a conditional removal spell at best. I want to avoid interacting with my opponents creatures as much as possible, and this card actually encourages interaction. No thanks. Give me more evasion on my creatures and keep the conditional spells to pumps.

Ranger's Guile would be interesting if it was an enchantment with flash, which it doesn't seem to be. Therefore, it ends up being little more than a counterspell effective only against removal.


Why did you cut kavu off the list?

Where are your evasions?Seconded!

The best creatures in the deck are:

Skarggan Pit Skulk
Kavu Predator
Silhana Ledgewalker

I think I might run 12, 6, and 6 of those, respectively, if it were legal! Heheheh!
...which makes me wonder--Why aren't we considering GSZ in this deck? Dropping a Kavu on turn 2 and then GSZing for a second one on turn 3 with a single Invigorate in hand is very strong.

Lastly, I noticed Viridian Zealot in your main. If you want maindeck removal just splash white and run Pridemage. There's no good reason to run Zealot anymore. This is even more true if GSZ proves to be beneficial. Run Pridemage as a one of, toss in 3 Horizon Canopy and a Savannah and you're golden.

[Gui]

Keeping in line with the deck intent, Prey Upon is not even in my realm of consideration. It's a conditional removal spell at best. I want to avoid interacting with my opponents creatures as much as possible, and this card actually encourages interaction. No thanks. Give me more evasion on my creatures and keep the conditional spells to pumps.

Ranger's Guile would be interesting if it was an enchantment with flash, which it doesn't seem to be. Therefore, it ends up being little more than a counterspell effective only against removal.

Seconded!

The best creatures in the deck are:

Skarggan Pit Skulk
Kavu Predator
Silhana Ledgewalker

I think I might run 12, 6, and 6 of those, respectively, if it were legal! Heheheh!
...which makes me wonder--Why aren't we considering GSZ in this deck? Dropping a Kavu on turn 2 and then GSZing for a second one on turn 3 with a single Invigorate in hand is very strong.

Lastly, I noticed Viridian Zealot in your main. If you want maindeck removal just splash white and run Pridemage. There's no good reason to run Zealot anymore. This is even more true if GSZ proves to be beneficial. Run Pridemage as a one of, toss in 3 Horizon Canopy and a Savannah and you're golden.

Hmmm... I was not liking Kavu much on my tests, and decided to try Zealot. I won't splash for :w: because I am so often @ 1 land and still going, or @ two lands and using both, and wasteland is everywhere. 17 lands is a magical number, you know.

It's not much important, in my view, Zealot works as a comeback for stupid things like Moat, but in the end, what really wins most games are the 2/x creatures and Silhanas. I know how awesome Skarrgan is, but Nettle/Jungle @ 1st turn is just amazing as well, for having power 2. Kavu was rarely winning me games, I didn't miss him much (but maybe it is because my tests are slowing down each time).

Have you been testing something?



Why did you cut kavu off the list?
Dont you use fetches anymore?
Isnt 3 sylvan library too many?
Where are your evasions?
I never used fetches. They never work as intended, their benefit is not sensible, and stifle messing with my mana is terrible.
Kavu explained above.
Sylvan is awesome against most matchups, I rarely regreat having them, and sometimes having two wins games against control as well... you can try yourself.
I don't use much evasion cuz I just realized how having more pumps happened to trump evasion, either by dealing more zerk damage, or by killing opposing blocker. Also, Silhana and Skarrgan got a good amount of evasion as well, if needed. Raw power was better than evasion, at least in my tests.

[umbowta]

Have you been testing something?


Nope. I've been pretty settled on my list with the last change being the addition of Horizon Canopy. I am considering GSZ now though.

[Gui]

Nope. I've been pretty settled on my list with the last change being the addition of Horizon Canopy. I am considering GSZ now though.
Could you share the list, and your thoughts on the new list? GZS w/ Dryad Arbor suport?

[boneclub24]

GSZ could actually be pretty decent here. It's not rare for me to have 3 land out...

[paeng4983]

yehey GSZ is mentioned again, and im posting my list of berserk stumpy v.2 of my own :)

6 G_fetches
1 drayd arbor
8 forest
2 wasteland

1 xantid swarm
2 skyshroud cutter
4 kavu predator
4 esg
1 thrun the last troll
1 scryb ranger
4 noble
2 wall of blossoms
1 kitchen finks

4 berserk
4 invigorate
4 vines of vastwood (might replace this one with the new vines)

3 reverent silence

4 GSZ
2 Worldly tutor

2 sylvan library

[LordEvilTeaCup]

Take out Worldly Tutor, it's suboptimal. I see you got yourself a tool chest of 1-of utility creatures, but even then, it's not worth it. The 4 of GSZ is enough, card disadvantage is not your friend, unless we're talking FOW lol.

[boneclub24]

Very early stages of testing, but this is doing well for me right now, in case you guys want to see it:

16 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Jungle Lion
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Kavu Predator

4 Berserk
4 Seal of Strength
4 Rancor
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Invigorate
2 Might of Old Krosa

GSZ is proving it's worth. Again, early stages of testing.

[boneclub24]

If you guys could splash one color, what would it be? Or would you stick to mono-g?

[lyracian]

If you guys could splash one color, what would it be? Or would you stick to mono-g?Probably White.

What are you splashing for though?
Black gives discard and makes it some sort of Eva Green deck
White opens up to Pridemage, Teeg and some anti-combo cards.
Blue has got its own thread here http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?21988-Deck-UG-Berserk-Stompy and gives you Invisible Stalker and counterspells.
Red gives you burn and fling but just ends up being a Zoo deck.

[boneclub24]

Well, I have the opportunity to get just a single set of dual lands, so I just wanted to know what the best splash would be.

[lyracian]

Well, I have the opportunity to get just a single set of dual lands, so I just wanted to know what the best splash would be.

Looking at your sig Taiga's would allow you to mix your two Legacy decks and Bayou's would work in your EDH ones. Alternativly what Legacy deck would you want to build? Get the lands for that.

[Kilz88]

Okay, I am going to try and not sound rude here but what the hell has happened the days of umbowta and I throwing around lists? The best creature in the deck is by far is Ledgewalker and the reason is Hexproof. Last I left the list it was Slippery Bogle at a very close 2nd. The point here is that they cant do anything besides counter our creatures initially OR counter berserk. I agree that Kavu and Pit-Skulk are our best non-hex creatures but untargetability makes the deck. Here is my most recent list that I am considering now that MM is burning in hell:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
13 [B] Forest (1)
1 [TSB] Pendelhaven
3 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor

// Creatures
4 [EVE] Slippery Bogle
4 [GP] Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 [PLC] Kavu Predator
4 [GP] Silhana Ledgewalker
4 [M12] Gladecover Scout
1 [OD] Druid Lyrist

// Spells
4 [MM] Invigorate
4 [TSP] Might of Old Krosa
4 [B] Berserk
2 [NE] Seal of Strength
4 [UL] Rancor
3 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [MM] Rushwood Legate
SB: 2 [MI] Seeds of Innocence
SB: 2 [NE] Reverent Silence


I have to re-buy my berserks before I can start testing at tournaments but this is what I plan on playing. Might end up playing Phyrexian Metamorphs instead of crypts but we will see. Gotta beat Iona. Last time she was an issue we had to splash white for swords :/ Not something I want to have to do again...

[lyracian]

Why pick Druid Lyrist over Viridian Zealot? Are you not worried by Artefacts?

[paeng4983]

Well, I have the opportunity to get just a single set of dual lands, so I just wanted to know what the best splash would be.

Go get a set of GW duals.
GW offers you the following:
teeg, STP, q. pridemage, mindcensor, PTE, mother of runes, and a whole lot more.

Unlike with red, burn spells cannot kill fat creatures such as 4/5 goyf, 4/4 kotr etc...

^_^

Btw, I like the new vines of vastwood from innistrad. We've done some play testing with it vs. burn, zoo and slivers and it's promising. :) Now im mumbling to myself - what to cut off for this?

[Kilz88]

Why pick Druid Lyrist over Viridian Zealot? Are you not worried by Artefacts?


Exactly, the only artifacts I would be worried about are chalice/3sphere type cards and they are not very popular right now. If they happen to show up, I do have seeds in the board. GSZ for one is then activating for 1 (total 3) is better than total 5.

[Kilz88]

Why pick Druid Lyrist over Viridian Zealot? Are you not worried by Artefacts?


Exactly, the only artifacts I would be worried about are chalice/3sphere type cards and they are not very popular right now. If they happen to show up, I do have seeds in the board. GSZ for one is then activating for 1 (total 3) is better than total 5.

[boneclub24]

Exactly, the only artifacts I would be worried about are chalice/3sphere type cards and they are not very popular right now. If they happen to show up, I do have seeds in the board. GSZ for one is then activating for 1 (total 3) is better than total 5.

Affinity IS a deck you know.

[Kilz88]

Barely, but I am pretty confidant I can either race them or I am pretty sure seeds will kill them. They have no removal. It is not a deck I think we lose to in the first place.

[boneclub24]

Barely, but I am pretty confidant I can either race them or I am pretty sure seeds will kill them. They have no removal. It is not a deck I think we lose to in the first place.

IDK mang, they have gotten quite a lot of tools in the past year. I've been sticking with Seal so far for my SB.

[Gui]

I prefer the red splash for Assault Strobe and Pyroblast/REB and A. Grudge sideboard.

[paeng4983]

Anyone tried using the new vines of vastwood?
:) I'll buy myself tomorrow a set of those and will try them in my playtests.

[boneclub24]

Anyone tried using the new vines of vastwood?
:) I'll buy myself tomorrow a set of those and will try them in my playtests.

I haven't tested this. If you could post your results that would be fabulous!! :))

[Horto]

GSZ is proving it's worth. Again, early stages of testing.

Any progress here? How about adding a singleton Talara's Battalion as a Zenith target? It is still good if drawn aswell, I think.

[NihilObstat]

Any progress here? How about adding a singleton Talara's Battalion as a Zenith target? It is still good if drawn aswell, I think.

That seems like a nice Tech. I hope I had more free time to test Berserk!!!

Please, post any testing results for me, since I'll just have to trust you guys on how it's working out :-)

[umbowta]

Okay, I am going to try and not sound rude here but what the hell has happened the days of umbowta and I throwing around lists? The best creature in the deck is by far is Ledgewalker and the reason is Hexproof. Last I left the list it was Slippery Bogle at a very close 2nd. The point here is that they cant do anything besides counter our creatures initially OR counter berserk. I agree that Kavu and Pit-Skulk are our best non-hex creatures but untargetability makes the deck. Here is my most recent list that I am considering now that MM is burning in hell:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
13 [B] Forest (1)
1 [TSB] Pendelhaven
3 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor

// Creatures
4 [EVE] Slippery Bogle
4 [GP] Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 [PLC] Kavu Predator
4 [GP] Silhana Ledgewalker
4 [M12] Gladecover Scout
1 [OD] Druid Lyrist

// Spells
4 [MM] Invigorate
4 [TSP] Might of Old Krosa
4 [B] Berserk
2 [NE] Seal of Strength
4 [UL] Rancor
3 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [MM] Rushwood Legate
SB: 2 [MI] Seeds of Innocence
SB: 2 [NE] Reverent Silence


I have to re-buy my berserks before I can start testing at tournaments but this is what I plan on playing. Might end up playing Phyrexian Metamorphs instead of crypts but we will see. Gotta beat Iona. Last time she was an issue we had to splash white for swords :/ Not something I want to have to do again...Nice to see you're still alive and playing MtG, in A^2 I presume. You remember correctly that Silhana was...the cat's pajamas, but not just because of hexproof--she can only be blocked by flyers or dudes w/reach. The point is, evasion too is key. That said, you're going overboard with the hexproof dudes. Just go with Silhanas and a couple Gladecover Scouts. GSZ can get 'em for you if you need 'em against decks with heavy targeted removal. In the meantime, taking out too many 2/x one drops worsens your control matchup.

Too bad on having to rebuy Berserks. I finally found the last Beta Berserk I needed (okay, wanted) for the deck. :cool: I sent the Unlimited version I had to a friend in California as part of his birthday present...he never noticed it in the box and threw it away with the rest of the packaging. There was a good 15 seconds of stunned silence when I called him. One less zerk in the world :frown:

[boneclub24]

That seems like a nice Tech. I hope I had more free time to test Berserk!!!

Please, post any testing results for me, since I'll just have to trust you guys on how it's working out :-)

Zenith is doing incredibly well. I highly recommend you try it out. Also, I much prefer Scryb Ranger as a techy Zenith target to Battalion. It helps a lot against Merfolk, NO RUG, ect.

[boneclub24]

That seems like a nice Tech. I hope I had more free time to test Berserk!!!

Please, post any testing results for me, since I'll just have to trust you guys on how it's working out :-)

Zenith is doing incredibly well. I highly recommend you try it out. Also, I much prefer Scryb Ranger as a techy Zenith target to Battalion. It helps a lot against Merfolk, NO RUG, ect.

[NihilObstat]

There was a good 15 seconds of stunned silence when I called him. One less zerk in the world :frown:

D'oh!


Zenith is doing incredibly well. I highly recommend you try it out. Also, I much prefer Scryb Ranger as a techy Zenith target to Battalion. It helps a lot against Merfolk, NO RUG, ect.

You are probably right. Maybe the best of GSZ would be a way of finding maindeck answers to certain pairings. Scryb ranger is certainly sweet, and she "untaps" lands which can cause extra pumping also.

Also as umbowta said maybe we don't need to run so many hexproof guys with zerk having Zenith, thus getting extra 2/X.

I think I'll just have to go ahead and find time to test Zerk again. I miss it!!! :-)

[boneclub24]

Yeah, I wish I had more time right now. Between school and band, I'm left with very little free time that is spent mostly sleeping haha.

[paeng4983]

Just want to share, here's what im currently brewing:
5peso_stumpy_v.2
9 forest
7 G_fetches
1 arbor dryad

4 GSZ

4 Llanowar
4 ESG
4 kavu predator
2 skyshroud cutter
1 thrun the last troll
1 scryb ranger
1 tarmogoyf
2 wall of blossoms
1 xantid swarm

4 berserk
4 invigorate

3 reverent silence


And, the other list that I am also working on:
UG_stumpy

4 tropical island
1 island
4 misty rainforest
3 G_fetches
5 forest

4 Delver of Secrets
4 invisible stalker
4 silhana ledgewalker

4 gataxian probe

4 giant growth
4 berserk
4 invigorate
4 might of old krosa
4 Ranger's Guile
3 Autumn's Veil
4 rancor



off-topic:
I had the time of playtesting the flash with deathtouch snake.
:) and I really it. It gives the element of surprise. :)

[boneclub24]

No more band after this Friday until Spring. Will definitely slip back into it.

[Nameless Two]

So if you are playing GSZ, how about playing 1 Glistener Elf and/or 1 Viridian Corrupter?

Could be good to tutor one if there is nothing on the board and Berserk + Invigorate in hand.

[lyracian]

So if you are playing GSZ, how about playing 1 Glistener Elf and/or 1 Viridian Corrupter?

Could be good to tutor one if there is nothing on the board and Berserk + Invigorate in hand.
They could be; they are also fairly dead cards thought if you are trying to push the last few points of damage through.

I played a few games on MWS over the weekend with GSZ and mostly just wished they were extra pumps. I shall have another go this weekend and see if it goes any better.

[boneclub24]

They could be; they are also fairly dead cards thought if you are trying to push the last few points of damage through.

I played a few games on MWS over the weekend with GSZ and mostly just wished they were extra pumps. I shall have another go this weekend and see if it goes any better.

Maybe add some pumps in their place, and cut some guys instead?

[paeng4983]

i'm currently re-tweaking this deck inorder for us to combat the current meta:

4 ancient tomb
6 G_fetches
7 forest
1 arbor

4 GSZ

4 invigorate
4 berserk
4 might of old krosa
4 rancor

4 NO

4 ESG
4 kavu predator
2 thrun the last troll
1 xantid swarm
2 troll ascetic
1 tarmogoyf
1 progenitus
1 scavenging ooze
2 scryb ranger

[boneclub24]

I've been testing a build similar to this (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5496&iddeck=39787). It's been doing much better than my own version lol.

[Magic-Style]

Hi all !

I play this weekend on a "french cup CDF legacy" with 76 player and i finish 5th with GWr BerserkStompy, and 1th after 7 round with 5 win / 2 draw / 0 loose :)

2 Forest
3 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Dryade Arbor
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombe

4 Noble Hierarch
4 ESG

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kavu Predator
4 GSZ

2 Skyshroud Cutter

2 Sylvan Librarie

4 STP
4 Invigorate
3 VoV
4 Berserk

SB:
4 Nature's Claim
3 Gaddok Teeg
2 Seeds of Innocence
1 Qasalie Pridemage
3 Pyroblast
2 REB


Elfball => Win 2/1
T resh=> Win 2/1
UW CounterTop=> Win 2/1
UW Control ? => Win 2/1
T resh => Win 2/0
ID
ID

Top8 :
Random deck with Squirel, sun titan, nether void... OMG !!! I lose 1/2... :(

[paeng4983]

Hi all !

I play this weekend on a "french cup CDF legacy" with 76 player and i finish 5th with GWr BerserkStompy, and 1th after 7 round with 5 win / 2 draw / 0 loose :)

2 Forest
3 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Dryade Arbor
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombe

4 Noble Hierarch
4 ESG

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kavu Predator
4 GSZ

2 Skyshroud Cutter

2 Sylvan Librarie

4 STP
4 Invigorate
3 VoV
4 Berserk

SB:
4 Nature's Claim
3 Gaddok Teeg
2 Seeds of Innocence
1 Qasalie Pridemage
3 Pyroblast
2 REB


Elfball => Win 2/1
T resh=> Win 2/1
UW CounterTop=> Win 2/1
UW Control ? => Win 2/1
T resh => Win 2/0
ID
ID

Top8 :
Random deck with Squirel, sun titan, nether void... OMG !!! I lose 1/2... :(

Good job on this one bro! This only proves that berserk stompy is still kicking! Its just so unfortunate that you lost to a random deck. But still, a strong message to the community that we are not dead.

[NihilObstat]

Congratulations!!! That's amazing ;-) Love the list, similar to those from Etienne (it was Etienne, right?)

It is quite clear though, that the only great top8s this deck does is splashing red and white, and becoming a combo Zoo.

We gain access to radically a lot better creatures when splashing.

[paeng4983]

Congratulations!!! That's amazing ;-) Love the list, similar to those from Etienne (it was Etienne, right?)

It is quite clear though, that the only great top8s this deck does is splashing red and white, and becoming a combo Zoo.

We gain access to radically a lot better creatures when splashing.

not to mention, those REB and pyroblast thingy.
Those 5 cards put a smile unto my face this morning (its 7am here in Manila)
Great list. Keep it up bro! :)

[Magic-Style]

http://www.legacy-france.org/index.php?showtopic=7775&st=120

I write a report in french, in legacy french forum, if you can read it ? Sorry but in english it's so hard for me... :/

[paeng4983]

Hmmmm anyone would like to try troll ascetic and thrun with gsz in deck?

[Gui]

Thought this idea was worth mentioning? Just a raw idea:

Deck: Delver Stompy

// Lands [18]
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills
6 Forest

// Creatures [16]
4 Skarrgan pit-skulk
4 Jungle Lion
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Delver of Secrets

// Instants/Sorceries [26]
4 Berserk
4 Might of old Krosa
3 Giant Growth
3 Ranger's Guile
4 Invigorate
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze

[NihilObstat]

not to mention, those REB and pyroblast thingy.

I'm not good with abbreviations. What is REB? :-/



Thought this idea was worth mentioning? Just a raw idea:

Deck: Delver Stompy

4 Delver of Secrets

Delver is one of the craziests and fastests beater that Magic has ever seen. Brainstorm isn't our usual way of playing but maybe we can really benefit from it, grabing pumpers and fetching away anything unnecesary. Great idea, how is it going?

Just a question on the list. Where's Kavu??? And why not Rancor over Giant Growth??? ^^

[Gui]

I'm not good with abbreviations. What is REB? :-/




Delver is one of the craziests and fastests beater that Magic has ever seen. Brainstorm isn't our usual way of playing but maybe we can really benefit from it, grabing pumpers and fetching away anything unnecesary. Great idea, how is it going?

Just a question on the list. Where's Kavu??? And why not Rancor over Giant Growth??? ^^

It's a list light on creature and light on mana, and tries to enable Delver ASAP, this is why no Rancor, but I figure it could be used with that amount of instant. Just need some tweak in the manabase (less lands) and could probably take advantage of some ponder/preordain. I just wanted the faster cheaper creatures around, this is why no kavu. This amount of 1cc creatures gives you pressure all the time, specially a 3/2 flying for :u:.

[paeng4983]

I'm not good with abbreviations. What is REB? :-/

REB = Red Elemental Blast

^_^

[paeng4983]

I participated in a small legacy tournament here wherein we had it 4 rds.
Basically im still running the old list except with the two scryb ranger repalcing the two tarmos in cesar's list. Then my SB was: 3 vexing susher, 3 tormod's, 2 fog, 4 mindbreak trap, 3 seeds of innocence. Here's my chronological MUs:

PiF, brainfreeze, tendrills combo something, won two games to none. Both games, we drew tons of sh!t cards. While I was drawing creatures after creature spells. Won via swarm of 1 cc.

Elfball. In G3, he managed to go off but for some reason, he opted of winning via elvish champion then swarm with a bunch of elven. i took 7 in his 1st swing. Then in his 2nd attempt, they met FOG. :-) then on my turn, i swung my skarggan 18/9 trample enough power to give me the win.

No Bant. lose 1-2. My SB was not configured to battle STP and the like removals. so each and everytime I will attempt go berserker-barrage, his removals were always there.

UW control, something here. STP and PTE killed my hopes of landing 2nd.

:-)

We will have another christmas legacy tournament on Decemebr 24. will post my results again.

:-)

happy holidays to all!

[Kich867]

My friend has been building this deck and well, somewhat randomly (just now) I thought, why not try Xantid Swarm? It's 1cc, it flies / chumps fliers, but more importantly, it is a must-counter must-remove.

Previously, I feel, Berserk Stompy has very narrow paths to defeat--you remove the creature they're buffing or you counter berserk and it's hard to recover from that.

Xantid Swarm comes in and requires them to either counter him, remove him, or (hopefully) lose on your next attack. Once he's declared as an attacker, they can no longer counter your buffs or remove your creatures, furthermore, with buffs, he can still make the distance despite having 0 power given that he flies and quite frankly not many things fly in legacy.

[paeng4983]

Xantid Swarm? It's 1cc, it flies / chumps fliers, but more importantly, it is a must-counter must-remove.


We had it discussed some pages back. :-)
Here's my list using GSZ and xantid


6 G_fetches
1 drayd arbor
8 forest
2 wasteland

1 xantid swarm
2 skyshroud cutter
4 kavu predator
4 esg
1 thrun the last troll
1 scryb ranger
4 noble
2 wall of blossoms
1 kitchen finks

4 berserk
4 invigorate
4 vines of vastwood (might replace this one with the new vines from innis)

3 reverent silence

4 GSZ
2 Worldly tutor

2 sylvan library

[koten]

What do you guys think of the new card previewed in Dark Ascension?

Strangleroot Geist
2/1 GG with Haste and Undying

Looks pretty good.

[Magic-Style]

Yes in mono G version it's look good ;)

Someone have test Gwr Berserk version ? or i'm alone ? :D

[boneclub24]

Someone have test Gwr Berserk version ? or i'm alone ? :D

Too poor for that version lol

As for the spoiler... it's okay. The only issue is that it competes with Ledgewalker and Kavu for our 2 drops.

Now, maybe if we get like a 2/1 for G with Undying... mmmm...

[paeng4983]

Magic-Style
I did used the GWR list twice in a sanctioned tournament.
1st when GSZ was not yet around, I had 4-1-1 then lost to a UW thopther then.
2nd when GSZ was printed, but I did some minor tweaks then replacing the 4 tarmos with 4 G.elf (infect G 1/1), although it was only a 4 rounder swiss where i finished with a 3-1.

The addition of GSZ in GWR list is awesome.

Im not impressed with the new undying GG 2/1 haste.
:-)


uhm, since Im here, i used my 5peso last weekend's tournament.
I only managed to get a 2-2. won vs eldrazi locus ramp, and BW,
then lost to burn and RUG.

:-)

[neoryujin]

What do you guys think of the new card previewed in Dark Ascension?

Strangleroot Geist
2/1 GG with Haste and Undying

Looks pretty good.

I think this is a fine card. Haste in green is not to underestimate. Turn 3 this, Berserk & Invigorate = 12 damage out of nowhere (well, ok, they heal 3 damage, but that's what Kavu Predator is for). EDIT: it even survives being Berserk-ed, and gets even bigger! (Just needs a Snapcaster Mage to Flashback Berserk ... card advantage meets card advantage ... does this smell like a new deck ? ;) )

As to Undying, if they use a non-exiling removal, it's a built-in 2-for-1 at your service. Or as a chump blocker for Tarmogoyf / Knight of the Reliquary, and it comes back with a +1/+1 revenge. (Makes you want to use the other spoiler card, Hunger of the Howlpack. Or Tainted Strike with Berserk...)

EDIT: For Commander fans, it combos with Ghave, Guru of Spores.

[boneclub24]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127204&d=1326415857 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127207&d=1326416147

How does this sound?

[lyracian]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127204&d=1326415857 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127207&d=1326416147

How does this sound?
I think Skinshifter is better. You are only paying one mana for Giant Growth with him and he can at least block stuff as a Plant.

[boneclub24]

Skinshifter takes up a 2CMC slot though, which are generally better occupied with Predator and Ledgewalker.

[paeng4983]

young wolf
somberwald dryad
strangleroot geist
and predator ooze

are my picks.
what's yours?

[lyracian]

young wolf
somberwald dryad
strangleroot geist
and predator ooze

are my picks.
what's yours?
The Haste of Geist might make it work but non of them stand out to me as being good options. Ooze is a nice creature but just seems too slow. Athough it does have the amusing value of treating Berserks as pump spells since it can not be destroyed.

[boneclub24]

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/dka/9kqgz22291_en.jpg

How is this?

[Gui]

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/dka/9kqgz22291_en.jpg

How is this?

Unfortunately it is removed by STP and even if it comes back after bolt, it would still deny a growth effect.

It's also slower than Nettle, Jungle, Tattermunge and Skarrgan. It's a no to me...

[boneclub24]

Yeah, I agree. Always worth a try.

[Glo]

Unfortunately it is removed by STP and even if it comes back after bolt, it would still deny a growth effect.

It's also slower than Nettle, Jungle, Tattermunge and Skarrgan. It's a no to me...

Browsing Dark Ascension, I really liked Young Wolf. I see him as really playable; he dies, but then comes back. That is always something worth looking into and even testing.

I also saw Predator Ooze and fell in love with it.:smile: I just wish he was 2 green instead of 3

[paeng4983]

I participated again in our weekly legacy here in southern part of Manila wherein i had a 4-1-1 record.

My MUs were:
white weenie 2-1
UW control 1-2
RUG 2-0
TES 2-0
dredge 2-1
UW control split because its past 8pm and he would like to go home early.

:-)

I still used my same list with a minor tweak in the SB
4 mindbreak trap
3 tormod's crypt
2 fog
2 ranger guile
2 vexing susher
2 rushwood legate

I finally saw that strangleroot geist in action. It has a potential to be a staple in this deck. I might do a minor tweaking again just for that 2/1 undying creature.

cheers

^_^

[orcanmail]

The SB definately needs to protect us to give us time in combo and storm combo matchups. need GY hate like crypts, mindbreak traps, chalice of void, also needed. maybe krosan grips and vexing shushers also meta dependent. we then hopefully get to roll them over with pumped creatures

[paeng4983]

The SB definately needs to protect us to give us time in combo and storm combo matchups. need GY hate like crypts, mindbreak traps, chalice of void, also needed. maybe krosan grips and vexing shushers also meta dependent. we then hopefully get to roll them over with pumped creatures

For me, the deck does not need krosan grip in the SB because its 3casting cost. If I am going to use a defensive card to combat decks such as combo, dredge and control, I opt for cards with low casting cost.

Chalice of the Void? Again as i see it, yes it kills, if it is set on ZERO, lotus petals, chrome moxen, LEDs, but it does not kill the combo itself because they still have a lot of outs like mana accels, cantrips, tutors and wishes which are are one and two casting cost. Now, if you will try to lock them by setting COTV at one or two, uhmmm... i guess you will be affected as well for your power is at one casting cost vs. combo decks. And besides, TES and ANT are not the only form of combo. Reanimator, PiF base combo, culling the weak combo, cep. breakfast, leyline of the void-helm combo, painter-grindstone combo, alluren, etc are just to name a few. So, again, just me, COTV should not be included.


As i see it, the deck's bad MUs are: combo, stax, those decks that has a ton of spot removals (thanks to you snappy), and non U control decks.

[Siiig]

Sup Stompy thread! Kich867 mentioned his friend was building a stompy deck up, and now that I have it with a bit of experience I wanted to get involved in here.

My List:

Creatures:
2x Xantid Swarm
3x Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4x Jungle Lion
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Silhana Ledgewalker
4x Kavu Predator

Buffs:
4x Giant Growth
4x Seal of Strength
4x Invigorate
4x Berserk
4x Rancor

Other:
3x Sylvan Library

As you can see it's like, a very slightly modified version of the front page deck. As for experience I've played in two legacy 4 round FNMs (will be headed to one tonight as well)...

Week 1:
1/2 vs Esper Blade, 2/0 (jank), 2/0 (jank), 2/0 Glimpse Elves (Piloted by Kich867).

Week 2:
1/2 vs G/W Maverick, 2/1 vs U/R Delver (Piloted by Kich867), 2/1 vs Jank Sword of the Meek Combo, 2/1 vs Reanimator (semi-jank).

I can chalk up my loses to Esper Blade and G/W Maverick partially to inexperience. Both matches I sided out Ledgewalker and lost to removal.

Current Sideboard:
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Rushwood Legate
2x Winter Orb
2x Choke
4x Nature's Claim
1x Compost

The board is an attempt to tailor towards my personal meta. There isn't a huge number of serious players where myself and Kich867 play. MUC, Esper Blade, U/R Delver, U/B Delver, are a short handful I can think of off the top of my head.The 4x Nature's Claims are to help deal with Batterskull / Jitte. Tormod's Crypt / Relic are aimed at Reanimator and Dredge (there is a dredge deck that is sometimes played). Then Rushwood / Choke are there to help play against anything that uses Blue.

I'm going to be running a GSZ version of this deck tonight (I would use hierarch, but sadly don't have a set so it's birds instead) and I'll report back with the list and how it goes.

*edit* typo xD

[Siiig]

Browsing Dark Ascension, I really liked Young Wolf. I see him as really playable; he dies, but then comes back. That is always something worth looking into and even testing.

I also saw Predator Ooze and fell in love with it.:smile: I just wish he was 2 green instead of 3

As Boneclub mentioned originally, Young Wolf is still vulnerable to exile, which makes him quite a bit less potent when compared to say... Slippery Boggle. Your pitching out a 2/X slot for a 1/1 that MIGHT become a 2/2 if he gets bolted. I feel like the 1 mana slots should be occupied by either hexproof (Boggle/Gladecover) or a 1 drop 2/x still (Nettle Sentinel is my choice here).




For me, the deck does not need krosan grip in the SB because its 3casting cost. If I am going to use a defensive card to combat decks such as combo, dredge and control, I opt for cards with low casting cost.

Chalice of the Void? Again as i see it, yes it kills, if it is set on ZERO, lotus petals, chrome moxen, LEDs, but it does not kill the combo itself because they still have a lot of outs like mana accels, cantrips, tutors and wishes which are are one and two casting cost. Now, if you will try to lock them by setting COTV at one or two, uhmmm... i guess you will be affected as well for your power is at one casting cost vs. combo decks. And besides, TES and ANT are not the only form of combo. Reanimator, PiF base combo, culling the weak combo, cep. breakfast, leyline of the void-helm combo, painter-grindstone combo, alluren, etc are just to name a few. So, again, just me, COTV should not be included.


As i see it, the deck's bad MUs are: combo, stax, those decks that has a ton of spot removals (thanks to you snappy), and non U control decks.

I haven't had to go up against many combo decks so far, your choice of MBT seems legit, but I don't think you need 4 of in the side. 2 at max and then just mull down to it. Belcher is in my meta, and (unless I'm mistaken) that should counter it's win con.

I feel like Nature's Claim is a card that we can make up for on it's down side. I've spent many games swinging for a couple of turns with a 2/1 or 4/1 Xantid Swarm (double rancor) building cards and abusing Library. And of coarse it fits into our super duper low mana curve, and god forbid you stick a kavu? GG.

[lyracian]

I haven't had to go up against many combo decks so far, your choice of MBT seems legit, but I don't think you need 4 of in the side. 2 at max and then just mull down to it. Belcher is in my meta, and (unless I'm mistaken) that should counter it's win con.I would not want to have less than 3. You can mull to find it but you still need to have enough cards to win once you do so. Also Belcher can go off several times if they have a lot of mana and you may not be able to stop all of them.

[Gui]

@Siiig

Congratz on the results, they are not bad at all ^^

I see you used 2 swarm maindeck, how did it go for you?

Also, my opening post has Viridian Zealot as maindeck instead of Kavu Predator, which I consider to be a unusual choice of my part, but I really grown to like the utility of MD Viridian. Did you miss it at all, and, was Kavu gamebreaker in any match?

[Siiig]

@Gui

Thanks so much man!

In regards to 2 MD swarms, I've at times run 3. I feel they come up just enough to be useful at those numbers, and given that they fly they are surprisingly imposing. :cool:

The only match up I've found Kavu to be game breaking was actually against U/R Delver. Invigorate put's him to 9/9 for the turn, so you can drop it in response to a bolt, and ask them how much they really want to kill him. Beyond that, I feel he underperforms, and VZ is probably a better option. His main strength comes from how incredibly well he interacts with invigorate and berserk (2 card 18/18 wut?). I would argue Zelot probably offers a better spot than Kavu in the long run.

I didn't come back raving about my GSZ modification because I didn't really like it. It under performed IMO but at least won against NicFit.

At this current moment I moved into what I dubbed "Hexproof Berserk". That looks like...


2x Xantid Swarm
4x Gladecover Scout
4x Slippery Boggle
4x Silhana Ledgewalker
4x Kavu Predator

4x Rancor
4x Invigorate
4x Giant Growth
4x Groundswell
4x Seal of Strength
4x Berserk

3x Sylvan Library

4x Misty Rainforest
3x Pendlehaven
9/10x Forest


That list is going to have some problems, I'll update it when I have the deck in front of me =X

The deck feels good, I feel very strong against any deck that's relying on controlling the board (through targeting). Last week I went against...

Fatdeck (2/0)

Sneaky Show (0/2): Lost round 1 to a turn 5ish Emrakul that ate my board off sneaky show (got him to 1 off of a berserk swing, trying to stunt him with his pain mana, but it didn't work), boarded in Rushwood / Choke.
Game 2 I got the choke down in time, but 2 top deck islands got show and tell out. Saw a progenitus, went down 3 cards with Sylvan, and punted by not just taking them off the top. If I had dug out and seen a berserk on the next library pull, I may have been able to swing back.

On a side note, I actually felt really good in this matchup spite getting 0/2'ed. It really felt like both losses were one card away from being wins. (which in comparison to the next match, feels pretty good).

Stoneblade: I really have no idea how to beat this deck. I feel very locked out by it. G1 I got taken down slowly but surely, even without him being able to snatch up my creatures with path/swords. But a force of will to force of will on my berserk sealed the game.
G2 boarded in 4x natures claims just to try and go in on his skull/jitte/sword of feast and famine, but never saw one to try and take advantage.

Anyone have any suggestions for dealing with Esperblade? I might try switching to Zealot just to try and combat blades.

[paeng4983]

:-)
Finally, its good to see that our thread began to move again.
Well as for me, i haven't sleeved the deck since X number of days/ weeks or even months. But im planning to sleeve it for this weekend's legacy tournament.
But going to use the list that i posted several pages back (with some modification)
I plan to use 4 GSZ and 2 infect dudes, blight mamba and the G 1/1 elf infect guy.

will post after the tourney
^_^


=
On the other hand, Im currently working on with this

20 Forest
1 Arbor Dryad

4 Green Sun Zenith
3 Rampant Growh

4 Noble Heirarch
2 Virridian Corrupter
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Sakura Tribe Elder
2 Predator Ooze
4 Dungrove Elder
2 Thrun the Last Troll

4 Berserk
4 Vines of Vastwoods
4 Groundswell

Its a little slower than what we're all acustomed to,
but as i see it, it can really punish opponents midgame to late game.
What can you say guys?

[Siiig]

:-)
Finally, its good to see that our thread began to move again.
Well as for me, i haven't sleeved the deck since X number of days/ weeks or even months. But im planning to sleeve it for this weekend's legacy tournament.
But going to use the list that i posted several pages back (with some modification)
I plan to use 4 GSZ and 2 infect dudes, blight mamba and the G 1/1 elf infect guy.

will post after the tourney
^_^


=
On the other hand, Im currently working on with this

20 Forest
1 Arbor Dryad

4 Green Sun Zenith
3 Rampant Growh

4 Noble Heirarch
2 Virridian Corrupter
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Sakura Tribe Elder
2 Predator Ooze
4 Dungrove Elder
2 Thrun the Last Troll

4 Berserk
4 Vines of Vastwoods
4 Groundswell

Its a little slower than what we're all acustomed to,
but as i see it, it can really punish opponents midgame to late game.
What can you say guys?

Yeah! Need some people to bounce these ideas off of =P

I've considered sleeving up an infect version of mine, using the same build ideologically but replacing the creature base with the "good" infect creatures.
Blight Mamba
Glistener Elf
Ichorclaw Myr
Inkmoth Nexus

On that concept I would run the Inkmoth's as creatures, instead of considering them lands, and keep a 18-20 buff layout... Hmm, maybe I'll try that this friday. Oh, and I would definitely add Vines of Vastwood to the buff set.

Predator Ooze is a very interesting choice. I would probably go with a singleton Thrun. I tried a list that was somewhat similar to that, just with the idea of bringing turn 3-4 to turns 2-3. I didn't have Noble Hierarch, which did a number on my aggression, plus my Birds of Paradise got target fired like a boss. (I also had no Dryad Arbor).

Just for fun I would run Misty Rainforest, the idea of EOT fetch -> arbor swing win is kinda fun.

*edit because I can*

Dunegrove Elder looks really fun. I question Goyf. I think running Invigorate + Kavu would be a better option. Viridian Corrupter is an odd choice to me, I feel like Pridemate or Zealot would be better suited (but obviously Pridemate is dangerous when your only running hiearch for the white). Predator Ooze also looks really fun, if you can drop him quick enough and you don't have much worry in regards to Hexproof.

[boneclub24]

Berserk Infect got a top at a pretty big tourney:
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7875&iddeck=57346

[Siiig]

If I can make it to FNM tonight, I'm going to try out a jank mono-green version of infect stompy. I still need to get my hands on a set of Noble Hierarchs, since they really make a big difference in our game play (That's essentially +2/+2 for an infect deck!).

I really like the idea of running Gitaxian Probe. I might get my hands on a set and try that even in Mono G. Having a free cantrip that lets me know if they're holding 2 Force of Wills is pretty damn good.

Also, for my Stompy Infect, I chose Mutagenic Growth over Giant Growth / MOOK for the faster win con. Invigorate + Mutagenic puts our free cast buff number to 8, which is pretty damn significant.

I'll tell you guys how it goes.:tongue:

[Gui]

I still think Giant Growth is the way to go there.

Some people say that Might of Old Krosa is better because it wins when you Berserk with it against the open field. Some other say that Mutagenic Growth is better because it's easier to cast.

I think the conisderations for Berserk against the open field are nonsense, because in all honesty, whenever berserk is cast, the chance of winning the game rises a lot already. The problem is when we don't cast Berserk. This is the reason why my lists feature so many Sylvan Library -> bringing me moaarr Zerks.

When you have no Berserk, in a Infect deck, your problem becomes "how do I evade opposing creatures". When you attack with MOoK or Mutagenic, you either get a +2/+2 during combat step, or a +4/+4 prior it. In the first case, your creature is less likely to survive than if it was a GG, because GG gives +3/+3. In the second case, the opponent will minimize your MOoK, blocking your creature, if he needs to. Giving your opponent the choice usually end up with the best choice for him.

With GG, you can attack without casting, and YOU decide whether you want to damage him, his creature, or cast GG in your creature to protect it. It's more versatile, give you better decision trees. Also, you get to maximize your damage when you have 2 creatures and he has 1 blocker. Last, it saves creatures from Lightning Bolt.

Just my opinion, tho...

[lyracian]

I still think Giant Growth is the way to go there.
Just my opinion, tho...
I have been doing some playtesting and have come to the same conclusion, mostly because of Lightning Bolt killing my critters which GG would save them from.

[Siiig]

Hey Guys,

I actually got to run Infect Stompy (somewhat ghetto version) yesterday. I figured I would give you guys a report (I did it via twitter while I was playing so I wouldn't forget everything).

List -- JANK Mono-Green Stompy Infect
Creatures:
4x Glistener Elf
3x Blight Mamba
1x Necropede
2x Viridian Corrupter
2x Ichorclaw Myr
2x Xantid Swarm
3x Birds of Paradise
1x Putrefax
4x Inkmoth Nexus (Not sure where to put him! Creature or land?)

Buffs:
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Vines of Vastwood
4x Groundswell
4x Invigorate
4x Berserk

Tech:
4x Gitaxian Probe

Land:

7x Forest
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Pendlehaven

R1 mono black pox, took g1 quick, g2 awkward shut down into tomb stalker plus the rack. G3 my singleton compost in open, do work.

R2: sneaky show, g1 super quick infect win, g2 death from emrakul, g3 he mulled 5, miss pitch on a creature into a win with mutagenic + ink.

R3 G/w maverick. Take g1 easy, g2 no side from me, epic terrible miss play against jitte, g3 maze plus jitte easy stompy loss.

Missplay I was referring to here--I popped Inkmoth for a 1 infect swing when jitte had 2 counters on it. Minuses from Jitte, and then I lost the game.

R4 0/2 to u/b/w spirits. Jitte and one mana white removal beats stompy.

Basically what I learned from this tournament, a 4 of in the board to replace Vines of Vastwood when you don't need the hexproof would be super solid (bounty of the hunt or MoOk?). I can't figure out what to do to handle Jitte though. The Viridian Corrupter did me well, as most of the artifacts you really need to deal with are 1 of, but it's still hard.

Gitaxian Probe here served me really well, but I found most of the time I dropped it I looked at their hand with something like "Yup... That's a force, something to pitch, and a 1w removal". Even playing hard in to try and get things out of their hand (and stick a swing) didn't really get there (specifically against the white decks).

1of Putrefax -- This actually got me a game against Maverick. He swung out against my empty board, I had 5 mana down, GG.


I still think Giant Growth is the way to go there.

I dropped GG from my list in favor of Groundswell. While running misty it's not hard to force a landfall drop for the turn. I really didn't have many instances of being like "Crap, I wish this wasn't groundswell". Much more often it was "thank god this is +4/+4".

During my matches, I would definitely say infect feels super strong. It's biggest loss is the general lack of hexproof. Splashing a color (namely blue or black) clearly gives the deck a big push over the edge. Having a daze in hand would really throw the ability to deal with 1w exiles super well.

Oh, and since I was running Birds over Noble Hierarch, this deck will be substantially better next week. Exhalted + Infect = :confused:

*edit*

Just wanted to add in here, after looking at the G/U infect list, I'm probably going to drop pendlehaven to 1of in the deck. It's a nice pull, and when you see it for the first time in the game it's like aww cool! but if you ever see a second one your face kind of hits the desk--if you know what I mean. I'm also going to try the singleton rancor, just to see how it feels.

Noxious Revival also came to mind as a super solid piece. It could really help in delaying opponents when we want to keep them off of business, and at the same time it can recover berserks / creatures / and more importantly Vines of Vastwood. I'd love some feedback on the idea ^^;

[paeng4983]

I have the chance to play this deck last Saturday in a sanctioned legacy tournament again since June of 2011, but I opt for reanimator instead and ended with a 3-2 landing 5th.

Then Sunday came, my brother asked me if I would like to join them for a playtest in preparation for April 22 legacy tournament here wherein the top prizes are set of force of will and set of tarmogoyf. Of course I said yes to him since I wont be doing anything on that day. Me (5peso), my brother (burn), an officemate of him (affinity) and two of his college friends were present (dredge and shockland powered GW mavs). I suggested to them that to make this playtesting more competitive, why not we all buy one pack each of whatever booster pack you want and whoever ends on top of the single round robin wins all 5packs. they all agreed. We all bought DKA booster packs and we started our single round robin.

The list that i used was:
4 kavu, 4 silhana, 2 scryb ranger, 2 srcyb sprites, 4 skarggan, 4 nettle, 4 jungle
4 berserk, 4 invigorate, 4 rancor, 3 seal of strength, 4 might of old krosa
14 forest, 3 fetch.

SB was:
1 gaea's blessing (high tide is again getting popular here), 3 mind breaktrap, 1 tormod's, 2 fae macabre, 2 fog, 3 seeds of innocence, 3 rushwood legate

My 1st assignment was dredge. Ouch.. His dredge was so explosive. Turn one gem plus LED plus breakthrough in response crack LED - OMG this is going to be one hell of a ride. If im not mistaken, it was on his 3rd turn wherein he brought elesh norn from his GY into the field and from there I never recovered. Game two, from experience, LED base dredge decks, they usually take the LEDS out and go with a much more slower dredge. So I decided him going 1st. I drew seven, and i have a fog for my opening hand, and pondered a little if its enough. I decided to keep it. My hand then was, fog, forest, berserk, berserk, nettle sentinel, invigorate, invigorate. He went 1st. Just like what happened in game one, but this time it was city of brass that he dropped. LED - breakthrough - then a bunch of dredgers and DR showed but no nacros or ichorid where there. Then my turn, I drew kavu. dropped forest into nettle.
He dredged for 6 binning a nacro and an ichorid. Then pass the turn. in my draw phase I drew wooded foothills. Dropped it and the next thing he saw was a hulked nettle sentinel going into him (40/10 trample). Game three, my opening hand was: a forest, 1 tormod's, 1 fae macabre, 1 skarggan, 2 jungle lion, 1 rancor. He went 1st then dropped cephalid, cast careful study binning two dredgers, *sigh* I thought he'll go into other LED combo thingy. My turn I dropped tormod's and jungle then pass. He dredged for 6 and revealed 2 nacros and 1 bridge and some dredgers and land. I decided to activate my tormod's right at that moment where nacros' ability are in the stack, from there he played slow dredge while my 2 jungle lion and skarggan with rancor managed chipped-off his life pts into down to 6 or 7 it was before berserk (to skarggan) took over.

For my next opponent, burn. Game one, I waited for him to tapp-out his lands.
We've been playing with each other since we live then in the same house and pretty much we knew our playing style. And when he did, tapping out all his mountains casting 2 bolt killing my nettle and skarggan leaving jungle lion alive (he was down to 9) and when he said take, I immediately revealed in this order: berserk on the stack, invigorate... good? he then revealed gut shot, while mimicing a meme smile at me. DAFAQ!! We then head on to game two. Game two, this time I'll control the stack. Turn two kill via skarggan. Hehe sweet revenge. Game three, he killed my lone creature (nettle). Then I kept on drewing pump spells and lands. ALAS I lose.

3rd opponent, affinity. Game one, he went 1st. He mulled to 6. Then dropped the following: Memnite, ornithopter, artifact land, mox opal, plating, and frog. -_- very nice. I eventually lose to his battalion lead by that protection from colors (champion) and plating. Game two, fog saved my ass twice. Scryb sprites with two rancor on her saved me. Game three, he lacked one mana because he cannot cast some something (which he told me in the end that it was his champion) :-) skarggan with rancor (4/2) on him took advantage.

And for my last opponent, shockland powered GW mavs. Game one, too many spot removals where there waiting for my nettle, scryb and kavu. Game two, mindcensor was able to hold me for awhile but good thing silhana was there to save me from losing that game. Pumped everything I've got into ledgewalker and we're off to game three. G3, i mulled to 5, and my opening hand was: berserk, invigorate, forest, fetch, invigorate. i decided to keep. I 1st drew silhana. And for my 2nd draw, I drew berserk. I cracked my fetch but he responded with mindcensor, praying that I'll get screwed. As I look into my top cards off my library, I reveal to him all forest. hehe. His evil plan did not work on me. And was able to cast silhana and in my next turn, I went for the kill.

At the end of the day, i landed with a 3-1 win-loss card. it was my brother who opened all the packs and was able to get huntmaster and a couple of good uncommon cards.

:-)

I know its an unsanctioned one but i just wanted to share it with you guys.
Will post again this after this wednesday's legacy session.
This time it will be a sanction one.

:-)

*cheers


I'll just add it here.
After like months of not using the deck, I decided to use it again last Weds' legacy tournament.
We only had it 4rds because we started 930pm and we do not want to go home past two in the morning.
Anyway, here's what i can still remember:

RD1 burn
During our last game, he drew a very good hand. All his burn spells were bolt like spells and a fireblast. So at turn three he was able to seal the round in favor for him.

RD2 UW control
Good thing that i was able to resolve a silhana against this match. Silhana with rancors and later pumped with berserk gave me the win needed to tie my standing at 1-1.

RD3 UW control
Unfortunately, his FOWs were always there to halt my attempts of pumping a creature for lethal damage. Thus I lose.

RD4 RUG
In our final game, I almost have it, but his JITTE was there to save him. Jitte kept on throwing -x/-x at my creatures. Thus I lose.

[boneclub24]

I've shifted to liking GG a lot more as well.

[paeng4983]

Seriously, anyone here, aside from me, would like to include strangleroot geist in the list?

[boneclub24]

Seriously, anyone here, aside from me, would like to include strangleroot geist in the list?

I'd like to, but he competes with Kavu Predator and Silhana, who are too essential honestly.

[koten]

Seriously, anyone here, aside from me, would like to include strangleroot geist in the list?

I would like to! Thinking about replacing Kavu with him. No finalized results yet...

[boneclub24]

But Kavu is just so good with Invigorate! D:

[Gui]

Kavu is not essential. It's an alternative kill that happens to work amazingly with Invigorate or when the opponent intend on gaining life in some way. But outside of these scenarios, he's a 2/2 trample for :1::g:.
There are other options of good cards to place in the deck instead of him, even Bogle can compete for the slot.

Problem with Strangleroot Geist is that it's main advantage is null against our natural enemy - Swords to Plowshares. I believe I'd much rather have a 2/2 trample that works better in some situations instead.

[paeng4983]

Same issue here that I am having with strangleroot.
Anyways, here's what I currently have for this deck:

8 Forest
8 G_fetches
2 inkmoth nexus

4 Green Sun Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
4 Crop Rotation

4 Berserk
4 Seal of Strength
4 Groundswell
4 Invigorate
4 Ranger's Guile

4 Xantid Swarm
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blight Mamba

Well, frankly, its a bit ugly. But Im working on it :-)

[Siiig]

Same issue here that I am having with strangleroot.
Anyways, here's what I currently have for this deck:


When I hammer out my list I'll post in back here. In regards to Geist, I feel like he's a really good pick up, and I do agree without invig Kavu IS just a 2 mana 2/2 trample. Geist is more fit for a GSZ style deck, where as Kavu feels better set for the classic low cost version.

In regards to your list paeng, I don't feel GSZ is necessary, I'd rather pick up 4 more creatures. I'd boost the Inkmoth count to 4 on principle. Crop Rotation is a fun idea, though I'm not sure how it will play. I replaced Sylvan Library with Gitaxian Probe, these two compete for the spot IMO, one cantrips and gives me insight for the next 2ish turns (depends on when it gets dropped), where as Sylvan is more expensive but lets me suicide on notice.

I'm a fan of Heritage Druid in any infect iteration. She adds a little bit of mana excel that can boost stompy through the roof, and also makes infect silly, your simple swings become truly threatening.

Everything I have towards infect berserk is mainly theoretical right now though. I'm intending to re-make with 3 of rangers guile and 3 of vines of vastwood.

[boneclub24]

How have you guys found Tarmogoyf in lists? A store here has 10 proxy events, so I could potentially have him.

Or maybe I could try a super-loose 2 color infect build proxying the duals and 6 fetches.

[paeng4983]

How have you guys found Tarmogoyf in lists? A store here has 10 proxy events, so I could potentially have him.

Or maybe I could try a super-loose 2 color infect build proxying the duals and 6 fetches.

Well, tarmogoyf is not that strong, as for me, at least for this deck.
This deck utilize power, muscle and speed.
If you'll look back at the original list of Caezar, he had two tarmogoyfs in it. but eventually was cut down because in reality, yes at turn two or three its a 3/4 or if you're lucky its a 4/5, but really, its not that a threat. In my list I replaced it with scryb rangers. And even though there are no more merfolks in the meta, there are still other U creatures out there like delver, the 3/4 lifelink rhino monk, vendillion clique, snapcaster etc.

[neoryujin]

Seen the preview card Revenge of the Hunted ? Anyone playing a list with Sylvan Library? (and something like Ranger's Guile / Vines of Vastwood, of course?)

[paeng4983]

Seen the preview card Revenge of the Hunted ? Anyone playing a list with Sylvan Library? (and something like Ranger's Guile / Vines of Vastwood, of course?)

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129982&d=1334247412

uhhmmm.. you'll need the help from brainstorm and sylvan here if we would like to abuse miracle.

[Gui]

There's absolutely 0% chance to use it without blue.

OTOH, Delver, unblockable silhana, 2 flying guys for :u: and now this, blue has good cards for Zerk atm.

[paeng4983]

There's absolutely 0% chance to use it without blue.

OTOH, Delver, unblockable silhana, 2 flying guys for :u: and now this, blue has good cards for Zerk atm.

Im not even interested when I 1st saw it.

[boneclub24]

Yeah, the card is interesting, but I doubt we would get there even with Brainstorm.

[Siiig]

While that card is certainly strong, it puts our creatures at an awkward point. The extra damage you might gain from the +6 could very well be negated by creatures being forced to block it. This of coarse applys to everything except Silhana Ledgewalker, because she's a god.

I'm personally looking towards Red/Green Berserk Sligh atm with vexing demon / kiln fiend.

Currently going to stick with MonoGreen Infect Stompy until I decide to spend all my money =P

The point has pretty much been stated already, but goyf is a less than optimal choice for us. On turn 3/4 you can only really hope for a fetch, an instant, and MAYBE a sorcery/creature if your really lucky. Given that he has no inherent trample / boosting effect, Kavu Predator gets the spot IMO, if for nothing other than the invigorate interaction.

[Heresy]

Isn't this the lord you've all been waiting for?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130088&d=1334549290