[Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

[flrn]

Aside for not TES: For the record, Silence might be better than Chant if you don't run the 5C mana base. Not only is not targetting semi-relevant and WW near impossible to get without City/Mine, when your opponent complains mid-combo you get to shush them and say "Can't talk if you don't have a mouth".

I don't know that much about the US metagame, but we decided to go with the playset of Silence and only three Chant for GP Amsterdam with Basic Plains, Tundra, Scrubland and four Petal in the deck as white manasources in our Doomsday list. That's due to the fact, that we couldn't really remember when we last paid the kicker cost on a Chant and that there are some decks out there, which use Leyline of Sanctity (Sneak Attack, Hive Mind), Misdirection (Reanimator) or Divert (thresh builds, High Tide builds). Looking at SCG lists, I also don't see that much aggro decks running around, so you might consider prioritizing Silence over Chant.

[AriLax]

flrn: Realistically, no one here does things like that at large events. Locally I know my meta wants Silence as it is heavy combo, light on non-Maverick aggro, and Leyline is common from Landstill/Maverick/Enchantress.

Outside that, I would rather have Chant. Across 4 SCGs and 2 GPs I think I've played against Leyline twice (both from the UW ETutor Counterbalance deck) and seen one person building a deck that even included Misdirection.

[Lejay]

I don't know that much about the US metagame, but we decided to go with the playset of Silence and only three Chant for GP Amsterdam with Basic Plains, Tundra, Scrubland and four Petal in the deck as white manasources in our Doomsday list.
Wasn't it 2nd tundra instead of scrubland ?

[JamieW89]

Aside for not TES: For the record, Silence might be better than Chant if you don't run the 5C mana base. Not only is not targetting semi-relevant and WW near impossible to get without City/Mine, when your opponent complains mid-combo you get to shush them and say "Can't talk if you don't have a mouth".

Having your opponents say "I killllll you" every game gets annoying though.
I ran 3/2 in the GP in ANT so that I could infernal for either and both have had their upsides lately (kicker / not targetting).
Another very minor plus of 4 Silence, 3 Orim's Chant is that an opponent will pretty much always extirpate/therapy/MMage Chant before Silence.
On the topic of chants; why not play 7 with a rainbow manabase? I rarely find Duress better.

[Bryant Cook]

Having your opponents say "I killllll you" every game gets annoying though.
I ran 3/2 in the GP in ANT so that I could infernal for either and both have had their upsides lately (kicker / not targetting).
Another very minor plus of 4 Silence, 3 Orim's Chant is that an opponent will pretty much always extirpate/therapy/MMage Chant before Silence.
On the topic of chants; why not play 7 with a rainbow manabase? I rarely find Duress better.

It's important to diversify your hate. You won't always be playing against Stifle/Snare decks. Duress being proactive is very helpful at times.

[Fossil4182]

Has the interaction between Leyline of Sanctity and Orim's Chant pushed anyone toward Silence as the primary chant effect? Given that Orim's Chant targets a player, it means it can be Misdirected and its dead when they have Leyline of Sanctity in play. While neither of these cards show up as frequently as some of the other hate cards out there, Leyline still sees a reasonable amount of play which makes it worth discussing.

[Bryant Cook]

Has the interaction between Leyline of Sanctity and Orim's Chant pushed anyone toward Silence as the primary chant effect? Given that Orim's Chant targets a player, it means it can be Misdirected and its dead when they have Leyline of Sanctity in play. While neither of these cards show up as frequently as some of the other hate cards out there, Leyline still sees a reasonable amount of play which makes it worth discussing.

What see's more play?

Leyline + Misdirection or Aggressive decks that you may need to Kicker against?

FWIW, at the GP: Columbus, twice in that event I Chanted with Kicker in order to win rounds.

[Fossil4182]

What see's more play?

Leyline + Misdirection or Aggressive decks that you may need to Kicker against?

FWIW, at the GP: Columbus, twice in that event I Chanted with Kicker in order to win rounds.

I'm not disputing that Chant kicked will win you a lot of games you wouldn't otherwise. However, I observed a player at my local metagame crush two chant storm decks playing a UW Stoneblade deck with a sideboard Leylines. My suggestion would be for a two/two split.

[Bryant Cook]

I'm not disputing that Chant kicked will win you a lot of games you wouldn't otherwise. However, I observed a player at my local metagame crush two chant storm decks playing a UW Stoneblade deck with a sideboard Leylines. My suggestion would be for a two/two split.

I've considered it. Ultimately, I don't believe that it'll matter very much.

[AriLax]

Even if Chant is the default "better" card, Chant + Chant is worse than drawing Duress + Chant. The first Chant is great, but I would rather have Duresses than Chants beyond that.

1. If Chant sticks, it is easier to get B to add Storm/get hell bent by casting Duress than it is to get W.

2. Chant + Chant beating Force requires you to cast the two cards on turns you plan on going off. This means A) getting WW + mana to kill on a turn (harder than WB with Seas and Chant requires City or Gemstone tapping) or B) getting a 2 turn window to go off and not die. Duress is easy to sneak in on 2 to take Force and kill with Chant on 3 (or similar). Multiple Chant in general just aren't exciting EXCEPT in combo mirrors when you want to Time Walk Reanimator + stop Force or do fucked up stuff in mirror.

Also, diversify is relevant. Duress is better against Daze + Force, which is still sometimes a thing.

[lorddotm]

Extra Chants go onto Moxen or get cast again.

[Choux]

Hi dudes, how do you think TES works against this deck ?

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?22476-Land-Destroy-lock-control-with-Braids-cabal-minion


TY :)

[dillonkbase]

Choux,

I think TES is too fast for that to really work, that deck cannot stop us from having mana or playing artifacts on our turn. Chalice at zero or one would help it, and the hymn in the SB are good, but it cannot rely on turn one trinisphere, and I can brainstorm all day in response to minion on my upkeep killing a land.

[Choux]

Don't Vindicate/Sink Waste Rish put problem ? ( I did only play ANT storm so I don't know )

[dillonkbase]

You cannot sink hole, port, or waste a fetchland(although TES has less than ANT), you have to do both, and if your spending two cards so I don't get two lands in play I am probably in pretty good shape. Furthermore, without chalice of the void I can get all the mana i need from a land I play the turn I go off, especially since I do not have to play around Daze or any other instant speed disruption.

[HokusSchmokus]

What do you guys think of Silent Departure? I am trying to fit in one in my sideboard(Bryants list) but can't really find space

[lorddotm]

What do you guys think of Silent Departure? I am trying to fit in one in my sideboard(Bryants list) but can't really find space

Bryant and I talked about it and we like Deathmark more in TES since you dont need to use it on the turn you go off.

[OurSerratedDust]

So, why do you guys run both Deathmark and Grapeshot? I know guys like Bryant love to grapeshot people's faces, but I feel that isn't really a valid reason to run both.

[dahcmai]

Because you can get out of hate with Grapeshot. Ethersword canonist and Teeg being the two most common targets.

[lorddotm]

So, why do you guys run both Deathmark and Grapeshot? I know guys like Bryant love to grapeshot people's faces, but I feel that isn't really a valid reason to run both.

I have won countless games off of that Grapeshot I had no business winning. Sometimes you are forces to mini Tendrils someone. Sometimes someone is a douche. There are plenty of justifiable reasons to include Grapeshot. However, you do not have to run it if you don't want, that is the beautiful thing about Magic.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

I have won countless games off of that Grapeshot I had no business winning. Sometimes you are forces to mini Tendrils someone. Sometimes someone is a douche. There are plenty of justifiable reasons to include Grapeshot. However, you do not have to run it if you don't want, that is the beautiful thing about Magic.

Grapeshot is the only reason I play this deck anymore.

[John Cox]

I found something cool (although not very useful) you can do with this deck today. I had double leyline of sanctity come against me in game two of goblins. I had only boarded in one echoing truth, but I was able to get it post nauseam by casting past in flames and tutoring for it, then flashing back the tutor for tendrils.
I goldfished a few hands after and found I could reliably get a singletone bounce (or any) spell post ad nauseam buy tutor chaining with Past in Flames. This may open up side board options down the road if there is any problems that can be addressed by one card in a similar situation, or free up one bounce slot from wipe away.

[Shimi]

Played today Brazilian Legacy Championship, I opened 4-0 and just needed another win to ID and lock top8 but I got a bit unlucky against Canadian and Bant Blade(on rounds 5 and 6) losing to 1-2 on both matchs taking down my chances of top8.. also I got the featured match on round 4 so I grapeshoted my opp(UBG Landstill) both games, I know the quality of image isn't perfect but here is the video(comments in portuguese).
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/18503948

Thx.

[JJ_JKidd]

Cook’s Kitchen: Storming into Jupiter – Top 8 (NELC – 11/5/11) (http://jupitergamesonline.com/2011/689/cook%E2%80%99s-kitchen-storming-into-jupiter-%E2%80%93-top-8-nelc-%E2%80%93-11511)

Report. Read it?

Great job on the kid man

[Patrunkenphat7]

I have been playing this deck for a while, and I have found Pyroclasm to be better than Deathmark. The Teeg/Canonist decks are aggro decks anyways, and it can act as a nice reset button. Double Canonist is a pain, and Pyroclasm is another way of dealing with them.

[John Cox]

I feel the same way about hatebears, but goyf, knight, and terravore /etc are still better answered by deathmark.

[Patrunkenphat7]

I feel the same way about hatebears, but goyf, knight, and terravore /etc are still better answered by deathmark.

True. I guess I just don't worry about these cards. We're probably going to win before Knight and Terravore can attack.

[Kanti]

Kind of. Canonist is like the worst thing this deck can see, since if there are two bears out you need a lot of artifact mana all of a sudden to make the Grapeshot you Wished for work. Sometimes this is easy but yeah, sometimes just Wishing>Pyroclasm is easier.

I personally run a 1-of Virtues Ruin with 1 Deathmark and bounce in the sb (No PiF)

[kiwi]

One question, against bant in the post from first page you say that we have to sideboard: -1 Infernal Tutor, -1 Ponder, -1 Chrome Mox, +3 Pyroblast .

I dont know if this is correct, because they are going to sideboard against teps cannonist and gaddocks a lot of times.

Do you think that isn't necessary to sideboard echoing truth because we have enought with burning wish for finding answers to their posible hatebears ?

Thank you, and excuse me for my english.

[paeng4983]

One question, against bant in the post from first page you say that we have to sideboard: -1 Infernal Tutor, -1 Ponder, -1 Chrome Mox, +3 Pyroblast .

I dont know if this is correct, because they are going to sideboard against teps cannonist and gaddocks a lot of times.

Do you think that isn't necessary to sideboard echoing truth because we have enought with burning wish for finding answers to their posible hatebears ?

Thank you, and excuse me for my english.

From my point of view, the pyroblast are there to protect you once you start going.
Don't worry about those hate creatures, burning wish into whatever you have in your SB to kill them, whether that be pyroclasm, deathmark, grapeshot, etc.

RE: PiF
I've read a lot of comment on it. so anyone here actually used it in a tournament? How did i do?
In my play testing, i tried to use it via burning wish. I kinda like it actually. Its like Y.will for instants and sorceries.
I think if ever 'll be playing TES, I'd use both, IGG and PiF.

^_^
congrats on your T8 finish cook.
I've read your report
Jedi mind tricking is another way to win using this deck.
grapeshot for 50 = that's brutal... but i like it
^_^

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

If you allow the board to be clogged up by numerous hatebears, you probably deserve to lose.

Echoing Truth doesn't beat both Teeg and Cannonist.

Echoing Truth is used to bounce Chrome Moxen for additional storm count and showboating.

[JJ_JKidd]

Little OT: How will the rumored banning of Brainstorm affect the deck and other combo decks as well?

[Bryant Cook]

Please keep the Brainstorm virus away from this thread. This thread has done fine without the stupidity of those discussions.

If you'd like to discuss that. There's about seven threads in the Format & Article Discussion.

[JJ_JKidd]

Please keep the Brainstorm virus away from this thread. This thread has done fine without the stupidity of those discussions.

If you'd like to discuss that. There's about seven threads in the Format & Article Discussion.

Why is it stupid? BS is such an integral part of the deck?! And u said it, there are about 7 threads about it but none of the threads had the subject: "Banning of Brainstorm and Its Impact to Combo," so why not discuss it. I did say that my post was a little OT.

Jeez Son

[Dia_Bot]

Why is it stupid? BS is such an integral part of the deck?! And u said it, there are about 7 threads about it but none of the threads had the subject: "Banning of Brainstorm and Its Impact to Combo," so why not discuss it. I did say that my post was a little OT.

Jeez Son

It's stupid because:
1. everyone going along with this "this ban everything that moves" with no good reason mentality is the reason things get attention which is the reason thing get banned.
2. BS isn't banned so unless you want to start discussing a whole series of what-if....got banned/unbanned senarios there is no reason on earth why you should start discussing that one.

[Malakai]

NO. No no no no no. We are not doing this!

Lost three matches yesterday that I would have won with 1 Past in Flames in the sideboard. Completely sold on that card now.

Also, Silent Departure would've made me 3-0 against Reanimator.

[Mishra]

Cook’s Kitchen: Storming into Jupiter – Top 8 (NELC – 11/5/11) (http://jupitergamesonline.com/2011/689/cook%E2%80%99s-kitchen-storming-into-jupiter-%E2%80%93-top-8-nelc-%E2%80%93-11511)

Report. Read it?

I've read the complete article, which is fun to read btw. There is a passage in there which I don't comprehend. In round 6, game 2 you say "I end step Brainstorm because of the Pyroblast in my hand." Why would you that? Why does the Pyroblast trigger this way of play?

[Dark Ritual]

I've read the complete article, which is fun to read btw. There is a passage in there which I don't comprehend. In round 6, game 2 you say "I end step Brainstorm because of the Pyroblast in my hand." Why would you that? Why does the Pyroblast trigger this way of play?

He needs the extra mana to play pyroblast on his own turn and he doesn't want to gamble passing his next turn via hitting the right manasource on the 3rd and 4th cards. It is sometimes right to EoT brainstorm despite the fact that you don't get full value out of it. Furthermore, Bryant has been playing this deck for years so he's a master at it so he generally knows the optimal play in a given situation.

Until I read the words Legacy - brainstorm is banned I refuse to think of a brainstormless storm list whether it be TNT, TES, ANT, DDFT, or what have you.

[paeng4983]

I used this deck last scrubland legacy tournament here. Most of my first drawn seven cards were very promising like i only needed on card to go off. But unfortunately the deck did not gave me the card/s i like to have. Thus ending my day with a 1-2-1 winning only against dredge draw with gw mavs, lossing to tes and uw cbtop control.
Will use the deck again next week if my schedule permits me to play.

[Bryant Cook]

Played TES for the first time in awhile at a local. I lost round one then won out to win the event.

I have to give Liam Kane some credit for Silent Departure. It single handedly won me my round four against Reanimator, I'm a believer. I'm now playing it over Deathmark.

[hyggli]

Silent departure is a huge add in tes sb atm.
To Ban brainstorm it would be a shame imho. Though the deck can survive without it.

One of the advantages playing Tes has, is the fact that you don't have to mulligan most of hands being still a combo. It's very very solid.

Did someone playtest Stifle in sideboard? It's great against wasteland(not the "big deal", but helps), sometimes timewalks, and changes flusterstorm text to daze's.

[Tammit67]

Did someone playtest Stifle in sideboard? It's great against wasteland(not the "big deal", but helps), sometimes timewalks, and changes flusterstorm text to daze's.

Sounds strictly worse than anything slots it would replace.

[Dark Ritual]

Stifle changes flusterstorm to spell pierce because stifle costs U and then you have to pay for the one flusterstorm. Seems to be just awful; I'd rather flusterstorm their flusterstorm or something. And as for the wasteland 'problem', just play around wasteland. Hold lands in the grip. Play chrome mox aggressively. Petal can also help out a little. Wasteland is rarely a problem if you pilot this deck optimally although piloting this deck optimally takes thousands and thousands of test games.

[Andy_V]

Played some test games against RUG (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/comparedeck.php?deck1=42136&deck2=42134).

The games made me feel like I was 10 and playing with a Krosan Cloudscraper-Leviathan-Draco 5C beatdown deck with all basics that I was sacrificing to Squandered Resources every other turn.

I won 1 game off a Dazed chant that I was able to pay with rit and lucky diminishing returns with 0 floating to exactly tendrils on 10 (and that's why Dim Ret will never come out of the SB for me). Chrome Mox gets Temporal Springed... do you know how embarrassing that is?

The question is, is there an appropriate response? Xantid Swarm (like the MM problem)? Extra Silence or Chant in the SB? Switch to RUG?


It ruins The Rock, has more counters AND removal than Merfolk (besides being faster), has 13 post-SB counters plus 4 stifles for Combo.

[AriLax]

Played some test games against RUG (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/comparedeck.php?deck1=42136&deck2=42134).

The games made me feel like I was 10 and playing with a Krosan Cloudscraper-Leviathan-Draco 5C beatdown deck with all basics that I was sacrificing to Squandered Resources every other turn.

I won 1 game off a Dazed chant that I was able to pay with rit and lucky diminishing returns with 0 floating to exactly tendrils on 10 (and that's why Dim Ret will never come out of the SB for me). Chrome Mox gets Temporal Springed... do you know how embarrassing that is?

The question is, is there an appropriate response? Xantid Swarm (like the MM problem)? Extra Silence or Chant in the SB? Switch to RUG?

It ruins The Rock, has more counters AND removal than Merfolk (besides being faster), has 13 post-SB counters plus 4 stifles for Combo.

Play for Empty the Warrens. They have real issues beating that card. Also, how is Mox ever getting Springed? What are you casting the turn before that you need Mox mana for?

I've also played with/against that deck. Switch and play it if you want, but the deck is miserable. Your entire plan is set up a mise them out scenario before they land any real threat, at which point you almost immediately lose.

[Andy_V]

Maybe I'm just spouting a bit since this is my first real testing against it. I haven't tested RUG against most things, just the decks that my friends and I play (TES, Folk, and Rock), so I don't even know if I would like to play it.


Ari - Yes, Mox gets springed should never happen, but I was literally locked out due to Loam Waste lock and he had an Aberration, just to get the second mana I dropped a Mox since I had two brainstorms and a ponder. I pondered and he springed my mox since I held a land back... sad.

In the one game that I won, I had an option to get Warrens earlier for 10 goblins, but had no protection, so I held back against his 5 card hand.

Ultimately, I think it's just bounds easier for RUG to yawn and say, "Tax-counter everything and hope you don't get there while I beat your face. I plan on doing this every game, so deal with it or scoop," than it is to get comfortable enough playing TES to ignore it. It feels kinda like Belcher, "Do you have the force? No? GG." It just takes like 6 more turns.

[Bryant Cook]

I think you just need to playtest more. I dont find the match-up that difficult, I've been rolling everything I've played against recently thanks to Orim's Chant.

You really just need more practice.

[Andy_V]

Bryant, nice finish in the NELCQ.

[Bryant Cook]

I ended up in second, expect a report for my article this week.


EDIT:
Pimp Legacy Decks - TES (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?4607-Bragging-Pimp-Legacy-Decks&p=605635&viewfull=1#post605635)

[Darkness]

What's funny is Adam N., who placed first at the NELC, is notorious for playing ANT in the local NYC area. Too bad he didn't have the guts to play storm and succame to playing Tempo RUG. Congrats on placing second Bryant, I was rooting all the way.

Also in my play testing for TES I have found that PiF is such a powerful engine. What do you think of Liam's ANT/PiF deck? http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7081&iddeck=51410

[Bryant Cook]

What's funny is Adam N., who placed first at the NELC, is notorious for playing ANT in the local NYC area. Too bad he didn't have the guts to play storm and succame to playing Tempo RUG. Congrats on placing second Bryant, I was rooting all the way.

Also in my play testing for TES I have found that PiF is such a powerful engine. What do you think of Liam's ANT/PiF deck? http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7081&iddeck=51410

First off, Thank you.

I have no doubt that it's a powerful engine, I just believe that it's a poor main engine. It's too susceptible to hate to be the main engine, it's a fine secondary engine.

Liam and I talk regularly, I don't like combo without Orim's Chant. Especially right now! It's amazing against all of the Snare/Stifle decks.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

...I don't like combo without Orim's Chant. Especially right now! It's amazing against all of the Snare/Stifle decks.

So true. When I'm playing ANT, TES or Doomsday, I want Orim's Chant.

It's so ridiculous against blue.

[lorddotm]

Liam and I talk regularly.

Don't hold it against me. Bryant is so dreamy!

I would honestly play TES over TNT right now. Mainly due to Stifle. Snare doesn't actually bother me. Stifle is being very annoying. Chant is awesome and only 4 fetch is too.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I ended up in second, expect a report for my article this week.


EDIT:
Pimp Legacy Decks - TES (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?4607-Bragging-Pimp-Legacy-Decks&p=605635&viewfull=1#post605635)

I require a new pair of pants. My hat is off to you sir, for that level of pimping. Make sure to carry a cane and wear a blue suit while playing that deck.

[Beatusnox]

I require a new pair of pants. My hat is off to you sir, for that level of pimping. Make sure to carry a cane and wear a blue suit while playing that deck.

He wears a pinstripe suit and top hat and is flanked by men with very large guns

[Bryant Cook]

...Alright then.

Liam and I were talking today and we're going up to 2/2 on Chant/Silence.

1.) Infernal Tutor.
2.) Misdirection/Leyline of Sanctity.
3.) Japanese foil Silences are cheaper*.


If you disagree with these changes, oh well.
*The real reason.

[lorddotm]

3.) Japanese [Spanish] foil Silences are cheaper* [easier to find].

If you disagree with these changes, oh well.
*The real reason.

Just wanted to clarify my reasoning.

[gamer4life]

2 Brainstorm 2 Fetch 1 Chrome Mox 1Rite of Flame 1 Underground Sea, against Reanimater. Seems good to me. I kept it,would you?

[Bryant Cook]

2 Brainstorm 2 Fetch 1 Chrome Mox 1Rite of Flame 1 Underground Sea, against Reanimater. Seems good to me. I kept it,would you?

I would.

Although, but because you're asking, I'm assuming it didn't go well. "Oh yeah? Well I had two shitty brainstorms and lost! NIIIIIICE DECK!"

Did I get it?

[gamer4life]

It went great,i won that game.

[lorddotm]

it went great,i won that game.

HE GOT YOU!

What a kidder.

[AriLax]

Brainstorm and then you can fetch? Everything will work itself out.

Edit: Wait, I can do it again? So, we can mulligan this hand OR we can keep and basically EDH mulligan?

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

We auto-keep that hand.

[Bryant Cook]

Report (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?22753-Report-Cook-s-Kitchen-Storming-to-Jupiter-Finals-(12-3-11)&p=606262#post606262)

[Tammit67]

Report (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?22753-Report-Cook-s-Kitchen-Storming-to-Jupiter-Finals-(12-3-11)&p=606262#post606262)

Congrats. I need to get better with this deck

[plimplam]

Bryant! I've send you and PM, do you see it? :)

[gamer4life]

I want to here about broken plays with Ill-Gotten Gains. I never relly have to use mine,so im wondering how good it relly is.

[plimplam]

Ill is for get the combo when u can't abuse of your life with nauseam, for example against aggro decks when the match goes to late game, maybe PiF is better, but with ill-gotten you can replay tutor with LED for getting more storm and tendrils the enemy. Against control is better than PiF but just if you've played an Orim/Silence. Hope I've been helpfull. :)

[Andy_V]

Nice report!

Strangely, I picked up a Japanese card (Past in Flames) and had Burn round 1 at SCGSTL. I ended up 5-3, playing RUG 5 times and winning 3 of them. I'm putting together a report and will post it here in the next day or two.

I think there are two different factors for TES having a better matchup against RUG than I anticipated. In test games, we didn't have a clock and 3 games to get in with only 50 minutes. There was nothing on the line, so finding the critical plays wasn't necessarily required.

This was only the third large tournament that I have played TES in, but I have been playing local or test games for over a year and a half and had really underestimated how much feeling I had for the deck in practical play.

For those reading this... I urge you to read all 140 pages of the thread...SO MUCH GOOD INFORMATION. When you Pyroblast your first Force of Will and Double Grapeshot an SCG Ringer (Bertoncini) in the same tournament, it's awesome.

[AriLax]

When you ....Double Grapeshot an SCG Ringer (Bertoncini) in the same tournament, it's awesome.

A true American hero, especially if recent discussions are to be believed.

[thefringthing]

Based on the data in the latest installment (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/23244_Too_Much_Information_Indianapolis_Nashville_Baltimore_Kansas_City_Las_Vegas.html) of Too Much Information, TES has an average EV (aggregate matchup win rate weighted by the prevalence of the matchup) over the past four opens of 49.84. Not too impressive, but to be fair, the sample sizes are not very large.

[jandax]

I gotta say this deck is about the most busted thing one can do in Legacy. I just built the deck, and in my limited testing and starting on the low end of the learning curve, it's been nothing but bonkers. The learning curve for this deck is so high that its aggregate performance is irrelevant. Not many people play the deck to start with, and still few of those are actually skilled with it. I played SI for funsies a few tournaments and playing with four Black Lotus feels good even in a crappy version of the Storm deck. Everyone touting Chant effects is right, that's the way to go [right now]. Wonder why I didn't just build the deck from the get go...

[AriLax]

Based on the data in the latest installment (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/23244_Too_Much_Information_Indianapolis_Nashville_Baltimore_Kansas_City_Las_Vegas.html) of Too Much Information, TES has an average EV (aggregate matchup win rate weighted by the prevalence of the matchup) over the past four opens of 49.84. Not too impressive, but to be fair, the sample sizes are not very large.

Storm player quality is way too high variance for their sample size to be conducive. I did the math once for ANT, in events I played the archetype was something like +10% to win matches.

[Andy_V]

Here's my report (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?22766-Riding-out-the-RUG-Storm-with-my-friend-TES-SCG-STL-Legacy-Open-12-04-11&p=606643#post606643) from the SCG Open.

Criticism appreciated.

[Andy_V]

On Topic now....

Playskill and feeling for the deck are a huge factor... as well as decks being almost TES lumped in, when they are inferior versions with terrible performance.

[Basaka]

Tested a few preboard games against my friend's UW stoneblade deck today.

All I must say that life is pretty easy when they only run FoW/Spell pierces instead of stifle and daze.

Also got to use Rite of Flame the first time today, a few turns after having my T1 rit, rit, AdN FoW'd.

Too bad there's still a lot of Merfolk in my meta...

[thefringthing]

I've got two small questions about the stock list presented in the primer. Maybe Bryant can answer them.

If we're going to play four blue fetchlands, why aren't they fully diversified? The stock list has 2x Polluted Delta that could just as easily be 1x Polluted Delta + 1x Misty Rainforest. Is the idea that the ability to masquerade as Team America for a turn is worth it? If it is, why not just play 4x Polluted Delta? How often do you imagine our fetchland would get Needled if we did this?

Second, why do you like this particular mix of bounce spells the best? Echoing Truth to pick up two Chrome Moxes is a nice trick, but Chain of Vapor seems like it has the best impact to mana cost ratio. Why not have 1x Wipe Away, 1x Echoing Truth, and 1x Chain of Vapor?

[Bryant Cook]

I've got two small questions about the stock list presented in the primer. Maybe Bryant can answer them.

If we're going to play four blue fetchlands, why aren't they fully diversified? The stock list has 2x Polluted Delta that could just as easily be 1x Polluted Delta + 1x Misty Rainforest. Is the idea that the ability to masquerade as Team America for a turn is worth it? If it is, why not just play 4x Polluted Delta? How often do you imagine our fetchland would get Needled if we did this?

Second, why do you like this particular mix of bounce spells the best? Echoing Truth to pick up two Chrome Moxes is a nice trick, but Chain of Vapor seems like it has the best impact to mana cost ratio. Why not have 1x Wipe Away, 1x Echoing Truth, and 1x Chain of Vapor?

Because it doesn't really matter? Run four one ofs. What stock list are you speaking of? I run 2 Scalding Tarn, 1 Bloodstained Mire, and 1 Polluted Delta because it's what I own Japanese Foil.

Chain of Vapor doesn't bounce Chalice of the Void. It's an issue.

[OurSerratedDust]

But how often do you really see Chalice of the Void at an event?

[dillonkbase]

But how often do you really see Chalice of the Void at an event?

The bottom line isn't how often. Your sideboard needs to be versatile, you can run echoing truth just as easily as you can Chain, and it solves more problems.

[Andy_V]

I would say that chlice is becoming more popular again, since MM is gone. Besides RUG, I saw a metric shit-ton of aggro loam at SCGSTL. We even added chalice to the SB of my friends rock deck, because it's so efficient.

[thefringthing]

Because it doesn't really matter? Run four one ofs. What stock list are you speaking of? I run 2 Scalding Tarn, 1 Bloodstained Mire, and 1 Polluted Delta because it's what I own Japanese Foil.Sorry, I mis-remembered which fetchland it was. Fair enough.


Chain of Vapor doesn't bounce Chalice of the Void. It's an issue.Good answer. Thanks!

[KevinTrudeau]

I done went 2-2-1 at a Big 1.5 tourney today with Bryant's list for the most part (-1 Grapeshot -1 Silent Departure +2 Deathmark). I had the chance to top eight with a win in the last round, but got fucked by Canadian Thresh. The field today was a bit light because of a bunch of people traveling and playing in the SCG Invitational, including my former high school ultimate frisbee coach Martin Lohman, who was sporting the greatest (drunken) haircut I'd ever seen this past Thursday (I hope he's still rocking it for the Invitational). I beat fellow Team Jack member Jack Lange w/ Maverick 2-1 (the loss due to flipping Tendrils and Ad Naus #2 with Ad Naus), Rock 2-0, drew with Lands (Tendrilsing for 40+ with PiF since he had Zuran Orb out G1, losing to Trinisphere and Wasteland G2, and making a small mistake G3 that cost me the win), lost to CounterTop Thopters 1-2 (beating an active CounterTop G1 with Empty the Warrens for 6 and a Tendrils for 6, losing G2 when I was forced to cast Ad Naus after he fetched up EE to blow up my four artifact sources of mana when he had a Top, no cards in hand, and had just shuffled, only for him to find a Daze in his top two, and scooping to him G3 after the five extra turns since he had a dominant board position), and then lost to Canadian Thresh 2-0.

The mistake I made in game three against Lands was not making sure I wouldn't draw the second Ad Nauseam in my deck after I EOT Brainstormed the second copy away when I had both in hand. I fetched before my draw step instead of redrawing the blank I put on top. I couldn't immediately utilize any non-AN storm engine since he had an active Crypt out, so I was depending on casting one with IT and LED mana. I drew the second AN on my turn unfortunately, which forced me to waste an Infernal Tutor so I could get enough mana to cast it the next turn. That line left me open to Wasteland, but my opponent hadn't played one yet, so I figured it was better than relying on drawing a mana source; even if he did find one, I could still draw any non-Chrome Mox mana source and still be able to cast AN. My opponent then dredged into Wasteland, and I bricked on a mana source. He followed it up with Canonist the next turn, which pushed the game long enough to go to extra turns. My turn four Dim. Returns couldn't get there, and it was a draw.

Also, I made a questionable line of play against Thresh, but I think it was correct. I Brainstormed on my third turn into AN with Chant up, but with no mana floating, 18 life, and after already having played my third land. I went for it that turn, instead of waiting on another storm engine or possibly doing it during his turn, and died to AN after finding zero initial mana sources and flipping the second Ad Naus. I had BW in hand, but I figured that that was the best possible time to go for it since he was completely tapped out and would have had a flipped Delver bashing me.

All in all though, it was an incredibly fun day. All of my opponents were awesome, the Lands and CounterTop matches were both extremely fun, and I traded for a shit-ton of poop for my EDH Azami deck. I had cut Grapeshot, but after having faced another Maverick deck today, I think I'm going to cut one of the two Deathmarks for it, leave in the Wipe Away, and not run Silent Departure since Reanimator hasn't been nearly as popular over the past few weeks. I was boarding in 2 Deathmarks and 2 Echoing Truths against GSZ decks, but I think a 1 Deathmark, 2 ET, and 1 Thoughtseize plan should do just fine.

[Basaka]

Went 4-1 at a local today, Pretty much Bryant's list MD

SB is -1 thoughtseize +1 departure, and I had meltdown over spree for some reason (never used it anyway)

R1: Some weird mono-G build
Grapeshot for 20 G1, went off G2

R2: merfolk
G1 he mulled to 5, I kept a land with rituals and cantrips, never found business
G2 and G3 he only had dazes and cursecatchers which I easily played around

R3: Bant
G1 I mulled to 4, hand was still crap, died
G2 Had Tendrils in hand, 4 lands, 2 LED, played ritual (pierced), rit in response, Forced, used my other 2 lands for burning wish, crack LED, bin tendrils, past in flames, win
G3 Kept a hand that could duress and go off T1 if I drew one more mana source (petal, petal, LED, duress, inf tutor, ritual, brainstorm). Guess what I didn't draw :(
Apparently he didn't have any counters T1, then drew 2, so if I went off T1 I would have won. However, I didn't want to play into dazes AND FoW's against a bant deck on the draw.

R4: Zoo
G1: He went down to 12 on a sylvan library, had 2 bolts and lethal on the board in conjunction, but I went off before he could.
G2: My hand was Land, Petal, Rit, Rit, LED, rite, duress
Obviously I drew the ad nauseum for a T1 kill to make up for last round.

R5: Enchantress
G1: Went off T2, Grapeshot for 20.
G2: I sided Chants out for bounce, then somehow sided them back in. He started with leyline, I made 18 goblins, he dropped confinement. I then drew burning wish, saw my bounce in my sideboard, and scooped.
G3: He mulls to 6, but starts on a leyline
Turn 3 I draw chain of vapor, bounce leyline, duress taking his confinement, make 12 goblins
My next turn I draw wipe away, hit him for 12
he manages to get another confinement due to having 2 enchantress effects and a sanctum, but it gets Wiped Away.

Finished 3rd in swiss after 5 rounds.

[Tammit67]

R5: Enchantress
G1: Went off T2, Grapeshot for 20.
G2: I sided Chants out for bounce, then somehow sided them back in. He started with leyline, I made 18 goblins, he dropped confinement. I then drew burning wish, saw my bounce in my sideboard, and scooped.
G3: He mulls to 6, but starts on a leyline
Turn 3 I draw chain of vapor, bounce leyline, duress taking his confinement, make 12 goblins
My next turn I draw wipe away, hit him for 12
he manages to get another confinement due to having 2 enchantress effects and a sanctum, but it gets Wiped Away.

Going goblins against enchantress seems incredibly loose, as all that deck can deal with is creatures. E truth would let you take your time and build up and bounce any number of his leylines, as he really just doesn't interact with you.

Congrats on your finish regardless

[Basaka]

Well, in G2 I wouldn't have won regardless as I forgot to side in bounce (derp)

G3, he already had an enchantress, and I managed to duress his confinement. His only out is another enchantress effect + a second confinement, as I'm sure he doesn't keep elephant grass postboard (he boards in like Nevermore, 2 stony silences, 4 leylines)

Rather than durdle around and let him drop sterling grove I decided to pressure him. If I didn't make that play, chances are I would have been confinement + grove locked out of the game. He also had a stony silence already.

Basically, he ended up drawing a grove which he had to sac to get a second confinement, and I had the wipe away for it.

[Tammit67]

Well, in G2 I wouldn't have won regardless as I forgot to side in bounce (derp)

G3, he already had an enchantress, and I managed to duress his confinement. His only out is another enchantress effect + a second confinement, as I'm sure he doesn't keep elephant grass postboard (he boards in like Nevermore, 2 stony silences, 4 leylines)

Rather than durdle around and let him drop sterling grove I decided to pressure him. If I didn't make that play, chances are I would have been confinement + grove locked out of the game. He also had a stony silence already.

Basically, he ended up drawing a grove which he had to sac to get a second confinement, and I had the wipe away for it.

He'd need double grove and confinement, as he can't stop you from just Ad naus'ing into all your bounce, then winning. Especially with past in flames in board, you can generate the mana to bounce a bunch of things and still just grapeshot them if you want.

[Basaka]

That is true, but I would have to draw into one of my 2 AdN's naturally, as he has already locked my LED's with stony. He's far more likely to get double grove than I drawing my AdN. He already had 8-10 mana due to his sanctum.

Double grove just makes it downright unwinnable due to them giving each other shroud.

[Bryant Cook]

That is true, but I would have to draw into one of my 2 AdN's naturally, as he has already locked my LED's with stony. He's far more likely to get double grove than I drawing my AdN. He already had 8-10 mana due to his sanctum.

Double grove just makes it downright unwinnable due to them giving each other shroud.

I've played this match-up a ton. It's almost a free win for us, I don't understand why you're struggling so much.

[Basaka]

He kept the best anti-storm hand with T0 leyline, stony silence, confinement, double enchantress hand, whilst I kept a hand that was sort of slow.

I should have mulled down to a more aggressive 6 so I can AdN him before he can lay down any more hate.

Btw, that was the first time I've played against Enchantress. We don't get that much legacy down in Auckland.

[Whippoorwill]

Played TES at my local weekly tournament tonight. Only 8 players, so 3 rounds.

Round 1 vs. Combo Elves

Game 1: I Ponder on my turn and he plays a Quirion Ranger. Turn 2 I combo off. He mentions Grapeshot so rather than go for the quick Tendrils kill I go for the Grapeshot kill for 24. Could have done more, but he didn't deserve it.

-No SB changes.

Game 2: He opens with Birchlore Ranger. He doesn't get another turn since I have the turn 1 Ad Nauseum and Tendrils him with a Storm count of 16.

1-0; 2-0 games

Round 2 vs Maverick
He wins the roll.

Game 1: He GSZ for Arbor. My turn 1 I EtW for 10 Goblins. His turn 2 Terravore (1/1) chump blocks a Goblin and he dies the following turn.

-No SB changes.

Game 2: He has turn 1 Hierarch, I have 10 Goblins again. He never draws his boarded cards (Ratchet Bomb &/or Crawlspace).

2-0; 4-0

Round 3 vs Junk
ID since he's a friend. We play it out anyways though.

Game 1: I win the roll and make 16 Goblins turn 1.

-No SB changes.

Game 2: He mulligans to try to find a Chalice of the Void. Goes all the way down to 1 with no luck. I keep a hand that looked better than it really was (kept thinking my Duress was Ad Nauseum for some reason). No lands, so if he did get Chalice I woulda been screwed. I Chant/Silence him the next 3 turns (when he finally has lands, using Mox imprinted with Chant) just in case he drew something. I finally get Ad Nauseum and proceed to flip the other AdN, Tendrils, bunch of 1cc spells and no artifact mana. I stop at 2 because I still have most of my tutors in the deck. I decide to play a land and Brainstorm in hopes of going off next turn instead. Brainstorm finds me 2x Mox and a LED. I proceed to Tendrils him.

2-0-1 in Rounds, 6-0 in games ending up in 1st overall.

[Vicar in a tutu]

/delurking

I was wondering if there was a sort of "standard" list for TES. I've been wanting to check it out and test it (or rather: get some experience playing it) at a few casual meetups.

[jjjoness']

Check out the first page of this thread.

[thefringthing]

Round 2 vs Maverick
He wins the roll.

Game 1: He GSZ for Arbor. My turn 1 I EtW for 10 Goblins. His turn 2 Terravore (1/1) chump blocks a Goblin and he dies the following turn.

-No SB changes.Why didn't you bring in bounce? His strategy against you will be to GSZ for Gaddock Teeg, and then play an additional hatebear like Aven Mindcensor or Ethersworn Canonist.

[Whippoorwill]

I thought about it, but I decided to keep the main the same and just hope to win before he could cast any of his hate (Teeg/GSZ for Teeg). It was a risk, but it paid off.

[Tammit67]

I thought about it, but I decided to keep the main the same and just hope to win before he could cast any of his hate (Teeg/GSZ for Teeg). It was a risk, but it paid off.

It doesn't seem worth the risk. You don't slow yourself down by taking out the silences for bounce (except hurting ad naus marginally, but at this point you resolved ad nauseum, so who cares?).

And if you can't go off in time and they land a hate bear, you need burning wish for grapeshot and then ways to race the rest of their hand. Just seems loose

[Dark Ritual]

Yeah I absolutely board in bounce against hatebear.dec/maverick. I despise chant effects in those MUs and would rather have anything else other than chant because chant is an awful topdeck that does nothing to their hatebear while bounce at least can stall or better yet bounce a hatebear. Same with GBW Junk; board out chant effects for bounce all day when you suspect permanent based hate because, again, chant does almost nothing most of the time in my experience against permanent based hate. Chant is just king against blue though, turning off spell snare, stifle, and daze is great. Such a powerful card against countermagic. Precisely the reason we run it is for blue.

@Vicar: Read the opening post and the last few pages of the thread and you should be able to find the list if not I recommend another less complicated deck.

[ThomasDowd]

Almost beat a pyrostatic pillar on 2(u/r delver). miscounted and couldn't get hellbent. wanted to kill myself after the match. I literally was one damage off and probably could have put him to 2 to essentially lock him out of the game until i got enough mana to go off again.

[Dark Ritual]

Did the delver player have any board presence whatsoever? Because if he didn't then you literally can't lose due to any spell being cast on his end likely killing him sans force of will or if he played jace, TMS but that's unlikely and even as a singleton probably wouldn't win him the game due to him being able to FoW only one time and you gaining lots of life off tendrils. Sad to hear about it though.

[ThomasDowd]

Did the delver player have any board presence whatsoever? Because if he didn't then you literally can't lose due to any spell being cast on his end likely killing him sans force of will or if he played jace, TMS but that's unlikely and even as a singleton probably wouldn't win him the game due to him being able to FoW only one time and you gaining lots of life off tendrils. Sad to hear about it though.

his only permanent was the pillar and he was tapped out. so yes epic punts and miscounts. completely forgot about the fact that i could lock him out at that point. had my eyes on the prize and lost because of it. felt pretty good to know i could have beat one though had i taken an extra ten seconds to think about my line.

[MiseEnScene]

Like Ari, I've been encountering a lot more Spell Pierce lately, which has me a bit less excited about Chants and Silences. I have similarly been killing with Empty the Warrens far more than usual lately. Maybe it is just my draws (unlikely), but I think it has to do with the rise of Delver decks in this format. None of them can deal with ETW properly. I've added an Empty to the main (cutting the second Ad Nauseam) so that I can fetch one up with Infernal, and am thinking about adding another one or two more to the side for the match-ups where Ad Naus and/or tutor chains are much less realistic an option.

[Patrunkenphat7]

I haven't played this deck in the current metagame, but I might pick it back up. Question: do RUG Tempo players board out Bolts? I don't want speculation; I want someone with a lot of experience to tell me what they have actually observed. I'm trying to decide Pyro/Xantid Swarm for the board, and this is just one factor to determine what I will choose. I generally think Swarm is fantastic in a Spell Snare / Stifle metagame.

[j_rb]

I play against RUG regularly with TES at our local store and every game he seems to keep a couple bolts in. Also, from experience, pyroblast is amazing in this MU. I use it regularly to kill early delvers to slow their clock down.

[Bryant Cook]

I haven't played this deck in the current metagame, but I might pick it back up. Question: do RUG Tempo players board out Bolts? I don't want speculation; I want someone with a lot of experience to tell me what they have actually observed. I'm trying to decide Pyro/Xantid Swarm for the board, and this is just one factor to determine what I will choose. I generally think Swarm is fantastic in a Spell Snare / Stifle metagame.

My RUG opponents tend to leave in Bolt, they do board out Lavamancer though. I don't like Swarm right now, Chant effects are just better at the moment. Swarm was great in a Merfolk/Reanimator metagame because they didn't play removal. Nowadays every deck has access to removal through Phyrexian Mana, Swarms days of being fantastic are behind it. It'll be awhile before it may be good again.

[Whippoorwill]

Played TES again last night.

Round 1 vs. Aggro/Combo Elves
Not the same person/deck as last week. I'm on the play.

Game 1: I apologize cause its a friend and proceed to Tendrils for 30 before she even has a turn.

Game 2: Turn 2 Tendrils for 22 after Diminishing Returns finds business for me.

1-0; 2-0

Round 2 vs Goblins
Suboptimal build, has Lackeys and Vials, but no Piledrivers. He's on the play.

Game 1: He hits me with a Lackey on his 2nd turn. I Tendrils him for 28 on my 2nd turn.

Game 2: He gets an Aether Vial. Next thing he gets is Tendrils for 22.

2-0; 4-0

Round 3 vs. Mono Green Infect
This is the son of my Round 1 opponent, so I ask her how bad she wants me to beat him and I get the go ahead to make it bad.

Game 1: He hits me for 1 Infect. I hit him for 20 with Grapeshot.

Game 2: I keep a decent hand that only needs a business spell (AdN, Infernal, Wish) and includes Brainstorm. Brainstorm finds me lands of the non-fetch variety.

He then goes to brag that he beat me...

Game 3: I set up my hand with Ponder/Brainstorm. Turn 3 I start going off. I Tendrils him down to 2 after ripping apart his hand with Duresses. Wish for PiF for more fun which leads to Burning Wish for Iggy getting back 3 LEDs, I Duress away his cards again. Usual Storm stuff happens and final count is 112 Goblin tokens followed by Grapeshot for 57.

3-0; 6-1

Round 4 vs. U/G Infect Stompy
I know he has FoW and Daze main and Divert/Misdirection in the side.

Game 1: Land Grant shows his hand good against anyone else (turn 2 infect kill) but only Brainstorm for me to worry about. I Tendrils him for lethal shortly after when his BS doesn't find anything to help.

-2 Chant, +2 Echoing Truth (I shoulda brought in the blasts as well but didn't because he didn't bother to board in additional counters.)

Game 2: We both build up since he doesn't have a creature and I'm trying to find business while playing around Daze. After drawing out counters on a couple less important spells I go for it with Infernal but he had the Force for it. His hand is empty now and I just need a Tutor/Wish. I don't draw it before he kills me.

Game 3: I Duress him on T1 and his hand is Infect Myr, Island, Daze, Berserk, Invigorate, Might of Old Krosa and Land Grant. I take Land Grant. He proceeds to topdeck another... Turn 3 I go for it since I'm dead next turn and he's out of answers (he used Daze on previous turn against Duress and I didn't pay). After a less than stellar AdN I think of my options and Echoing Truth + 2 Chrome Mox gets my Storm count high enough for lethal and I have exactly enough mana for Wish > Tendrils. Very close game.

4-0; 8-2 in games.

Finished in first overall. I think we had about 14 or so players, maybe a couple more.

I know I still need more practice with boarding, especially against control. I'll get it eventually though.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Saw some discussion on Silent Departure against Reanimator a few pages back. I'd like to try it, but doesn't it just lose to them drawing 7 off Jin? Do people board it in ever or you you still Wishing for it games 2 and 3?

[j_rb]

I always liked oust against reanimator because it's useful in other Mu's. If they do manage to get out a jin, you have to kinda get lucky off of the draw 7 and hope they don't hit force and just chant em during your turn, its not impossible to win after jin-gitaxis resolves but it's hard depending on what they draw (also, you can usually race them so you don't have to deal with reanimation)... I like the boarded games against reanimator because of pyroblast/echoing truth so they don't usually get to draw 7 if they default to jin-gitaxis. Reanimator is a pretty easy MU as long as they don't draw the nuts. I prefer TES against reanimator than other storm variants as Burning Wish gives you answers to resolved reanimated creatures where variants such as ant just die to an iona.

[AriLax]

Onto more important topics:

Bryant, what is the best way to get someone to not scoop to you if you want to Grapeshot them? This is a very big issue as everyone I've played vs. who deserves it just scoops when they are dead to the Ad Naus from a Tendrils.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Onto more important topics:

Bryant, what is the best way to get someone to not scoop to you if you want to Grapeshot them? This is a very big issue as everyone I've played vs. who deserves it just scoops when they are dead to the Ad Naus from a Tendrils.

Showboat and make it clear you are going to Grapeshot them. Most people I do that to watch me play it out hoping a screw up and fizzle, which has not happened as of yet but it does make them sit through it more if they can hope

[j_rb]

what is the best way to get someone to not scoop to you if you want to Grapeshot them? This is a very big issue as everyone I've played vs. who deserves it just scoops when they are dead to the Ad Naus from a Tendrils.


I like to say something like, "I don't know if I can kill you..." and they probably think to themselves, "If you can't kill me you're retarded," ======> Grapeshot for 50 somethin..:laugh:

Usually works when I feel like grapeshotting someone who's a douche. It also makes them think you are stupid and can't play storm then they get a fat grapeshot to their ugly face. It might not work so well if your Air Lax since everyone knows he can play storm.

[Bryant Cook]

I like to say something like, "I don't know if I can kill you..."
I usually do this.


Showboat and make it clear you are going to Grapeshot them. Most people I do that to watch me play it out hoping a screw up and fizzle, which has not happened as of yet but it does make them sit through it more if they can hope.
Depending on their personality sometimes I'll do this. "You're getting a Grapeshot for 50" often intrigues people enough that they'll often sit there to see if it's capable.

[Malakai]

Onto more important topics:

Bryant, what is the best way to get someone to not scoop to you if you want to Grapeshot them? This is a very big issue as everyone I've played vs. who deserves it just scoops when they are dead to the Ad Naus from a Tendrils.

I will never understand how you have friends.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

I usually do this.


Depending on their personality sometimes I'll do this. "You're getting a Grapeshot for 50" often intrigues people enough that they'll often sit there to see if it's capable.

This as well. My meta has almost no good storm players so they get curious.

More on topic. Is dropping duress and going to 7-8 chant a viable strategy? I've had decent luck in testing and while 3 colors on the combo turn can be rough, my meta is drowning in tempo decks where chant is an all-star

[Bryant Cook]

This as well. My meta has almost no good storm players so they get curious.

More on topic. Is dropping duress and going to 7-8 chant a viable strategy? I've had decent luck in testing and while 3 colors on the combo turn can be rough, my meta is drowning in tempo decks where chant is an all-star

It's important to have variance. Chant effects aren't great in every match-up, just the Stifle/Snare match-ups. What I'm going to try out the next few weeks is a protection package that looks like...

3 Duress
3 Orim's Chant
2 Silence

I'll be moving the forth Duress to the sideboard replacing Thoughtsieze.

[KevinTrudeau]

It's important to have variance. Chant effects aren't great in every match-up, just the Stifle/Snare match-ups. What I'm going to try out the next few weeks is a protection package that looks like...

3 Duress
3 Orim's Chant
2 Silence

I'll be moving the forth Duress to the sideboard replacing Thoughtsieze.

I don't know about that change; it seems like it would make sideboarding a bit more awkward against green-based decks (the -4 Chant, +2 E. Truth, +1 Deathmark or Silent Departure, +X plan would be gone like MC Hammer's house). Sorry Hammer. Though, I suppose if you're still playing another bounce spell, like Wipe Away, or are playing an additional Deathmark, you could go -5 Chant for all of the above (Duress=X in this case, though I definitely think it should still be Thoughtseize) plus Wipe Away/Deathmark, but I shouldn't be undermining my arguments.

Also, thank you for the ballin ass deck list. It has been very good to me over the past few weeks.

[Bryant Cook]

Against green decks you just board the Duress back in over a Chant effect.

-3 Orim's Chant
-2 Silence
+2 Echoing Truth
+1 Wipeaway
+1 Silent Departure
+1 Duress

You could even leave in an Orim's Chant or two over Wipeaway/Silent Departure for the sake of kicking it or time walking on their upkeep.

[thefringthing]

Has anyone tried Teferi's Realm as an answer for problem permanents? (Teeg, Canonist, Mindcensor, Chalice, Sphere/Thorn, etc.) Menendian used them in the sideboard of his Vintage Doomsday deck from the Waterbury this year. Too slow, possibly? I guess our sideboard slots are very cramped as it is. Something to think about, anyway.

[Tammit67]

Has anyone tried Teferi's Realm as an answer for problem permanents? (Teeg, Canonist, Mindcensor, Chalice, Sphere/Thorn, etc.) Menendian used them in the sideboard of his Vintage Doomsday deck from the Waterbury this year. Too slow, possibly? I guess our sideboard slots are very cramped as it is. Something to think about, anyway.

3 mana, doesn't get rid of anything until the turn after, not an instant, worse than our bounce/kill package, can't burning wish for it, doesn't come in foil, etc

[Dark Ritual]

Vintage is drastically different from legacy. There, you have workshops. Here, you don't have workshops. There, you have the broken moxen. Here, you have to sack petal or imprint a blue card on chrome mox to cast that turn 2. The card seems absolutely awful in legacy, I wouldn't play it.

7-8 chant effects isn't really something TES wants to do. Providing information is king in any countermagic MU and the fact remains that if you happen to run into counterbalance you'll want to tear those silences to shreds wishing they were duress if you don't have the EtW hand on turn 1 or 2 assuming they aren't the blasted version of that deck with e. tutor and their annoying artifact/enchantment package including EE and thopters but this should be a rare occurence; I happened to face this deck and it also had vindicate, kinda a homebrew version of esper countertop thopters but I wanted to kill myself afterwards.

[kiwi]

I like the idea of playing 5-6 chants effects and less duress, nowadays counterbalance doesn't see play and I think that chants are better in this metagame.

Could be reasonable to play 1 tundra in main deck ?

[paeng4983]

Personally, I'd still run the 4-4 split between duress and silence/orim's because there will be times that you'll need to imprint duress to chrome mox just to give you B mana.
:-)

[Bryant Cook]

Personally, I'd still run the 4-4 split between duress and silence/orim's because there will be times that you'll need to imprint duress to chrome mox just to give you B mana.
:-)

This is in fact relevant, which is why I proposed only switching one and not all eight. Right now the extra Silence is more useful. Information and keeping our protection diverse is important too which is why I'm not cutting Duress completely and probably ever.

EDIT: Happy Holidays everyone. My gift to you is an updated deck list on the opening post. A shitty gift, I know.

[thefringthing]

I'm balking at swapping out the sideboard Thoughtseize for Duress. There have definitely been times where that configuration left me kold to an opponent's maindeck Gaddock Teeg.

It seems to me that playing Duress maindeck and Thoughtseize in the side is the best way to diversify protection while mitigating the life loss from Thoughtseize.

Then again, I usually end up liking Bryant's ideas after playing with them for a while.

[Tammit67]

I'm balking at swapping out the sideboard Thoughtseize for Duress. There have definitely been times where that configuration left me kold to an opponent's maindeck Gaddock Teeg.


What are your wish targets?

[thefringthing]

What are your wish targets?I tweak the sideboard often. Right now they're Past in Flames, Ill-Gotten Gains, Diminishing Returns, Empty the Warrens, Tendrils of Agony, Grapeshot, Silent Departure, Thoughtseize, and Shattering Spree.

I think the fourth Duress is at least a little better against Maverick than the fifth Chant effect, which is the matchup I like the Thoughtseize for the most. I hesitate to shave both, since I think the matchup is only slightly in our favour as it is. We have to beat multiple hatebears in game one, and hatebears and Mindbreak Traps in games two and three.

[Bryant Cook]

I tweak the sideboard often. Right now they're Past in Flames, Ill-Gotten Gains, Diminishing Returns, Empty the Warrens, Tendrils of Agony, Grapeshot, Silent Departure, Thoughtseize, and Shattering Spree.

I think the fourth Duress is at least a little better against Maverick than the fifth Chant effect, which is the matchup I like the Thoughtseize for the most. I hesitate to shave both, since I think the matchup is only slightly in our favour as it is. We have to beat multiple hatebears in game one, and hatebears and Mindbreak Traps in games two and three.

Maverick? The green/white deck?

So... you're going to draw the one of Thoughtseize to stop their turn two hate bear? Or Burning Wish turn 1, turn 2 Thoughtseize to stop their turn two hatebear? What if they don't have one? Too many resources lost on a "what if". Not to mention this is the only match-up Thoughtseize is better than Duress. Every other time Duress is better out of the sideboard. Duress/Thoughtseize/Silence/Chant are effectively the same card against Mindbreak Trap, they do the same thing for one mana. Except Chant effects can shut down a hand with two Traps.

I fail to see good reasoning.

[leegoo]

I think a good 99% of the time Maverick puts Teeg into play against me it's off the back of GSZ. I can't imagine you ever hitting Teeg off a TS

That said, I don't hate the idea of the thoughtseize staying as the wish target, just not for the justification above.

[Bryant Cook]

I think a good 99% of the time Maverick puts Teeg into play against me it's off the back of GSZ. I can't imagine you ever hitting Teeg off a TS

That said, I don't hate the idea of the thoughtseize staying as the wish target, just not for the justification above.

Then why bother keeping it? It's really not that big of a change to the sideboard, it's practically the same card.

"I don't like the new Facebook changes"
"Why?"
"They're different"
"Oh"
"Yeah, I don't have a good reason, I'll probably love it in two weeks"

[leegoo]

Then why bother keeping it? It's really not that big of a change to the sideboard, it's practically the same card.

"I don't like the new Facebook changes"
"Why?"
"They're different"
"Oh"
"Yeah, I don't have a good reason, I'll probably love it in two weeks"

I'll give you I don't have a strong defense for it, the best I can muster is that it is an upgrade swap on duress (albeit that's very minor) in the aggro matchups.

So I suppose you are right, although I still don't like the Facebook changes.

[dsck]

I think a good 99% of the time Maverick puts Teeg into play against me it's off the back of GSZ. I can't imagine you ever hitting Teeg off a TS

That said, I don't hate the idea of the thoughtseize staying as the wish target, just not for the justification above.

Maverick has post SB 3-4 hate bears (teeg and canonist) and 6 tutors (Enlightened tutor + gsz). So they have consistently turn 2 hate bear and turn 3 another or aven mindcensor. TES just has to pretty much go off fast and not care for the mind break trap most maverick lists dont even have.

[leegoo]

personally, with the maverick that is around my area, I've moved to running a virtue's ruin (in the spot of deathmark) as it's an out to mom+canonist/teeg.

But as to the above, thoughtseize doesn't really solve them having that many hate bears/search so I'm not 100% sure what you are saying.

[thefringthing]

I like Virtue's Ruin a lot. I've been thinking of picking one up for a while. Pyroclasm is a pretty effective wish target against Maverick sometimes, and I can see Virtue's Ruin doing that job but better.

Another poster sounded doubtful about Maverick playing Mindbreak Traps. This might be specific to my area, but in my experience every Zoo, Maverick, and Goblins player has four in the sideboard and will mulligan for them very aggressively.

I'll probably play the Duress in the sideboard for a few tournaments and then decide whether I'd rather have the Thoughtseize or not.

[Bryant Cook]

I'm honestly just shocked you guys are having this much trouble with a Green/White deck. I've played against it a bunch and just rolled it every time.

[Koby]

As a Maverick player, it's pretty hard to beat a quick EtW for 10 on turn 1. The deck doesn't need to Tendrils for 20 on turn 1 to win this matchup. EtW is usually sufficient if its early enough. Backup plan for B-wish -> Virtue's Ruin will clean up the rest of the trouble you would have; or Silent Departure/Grapeshot.

[leegoo]

I don't see Mav as a bad matchup by any stretch, but I think there is a pretty big upside to having a full out to their possible "lock" (or just a wrath usually) and you aren't really missing much by the slot it takes up.

[j_rb]

It's important to have variance. Chant effects aren't great in every match-up, just the Stifle/Snare match-ups. What I'm going to try out the next few weeks is a protection package that looks like...

3 Duress
3 Orim's Chant
2 Silence

I'll be moving the forth Duress to the sideboard replacing Thoughtsieze.

I have been playing that protection suite for about a month, Bryant, and like it more than 4/4 duress/chant. The extra chant helps a lot against the tempo/landstill decks in my meta.

[AriLax]

Been TESing at local events as it has been proving more fun than UB and better against people who decide they want to show up with a million counters. Scenario of the night given the 2 Ad Naus, 0 Empty, 4/4 disruption split list.

Game two opponent is on a control heavy Bant Blade list. You are going off (if you want to argue having waited here, go ahead). To the best of your knowledge, they have X Spell Pierce, X Counterspell, X Spell Snare, 4 Force of Will, and 3 Snapcaster Mage in their deck along side Canonists post-board. You do not know if they have any GY interaction, they appeared to board 6 or so cards in which is about right for Pierce + Canonist.

Game State:
Them-
3 Blue Duals untapped (Tundra, Trop, Trop if you care)
Stoneforge Mystic with 2 Batterskull in hand

You-
In play-
Untapped City of Brass (plus 2 Tapped Gemstone Mine)
Lotus Petal
Lion's Eye Diamond
6 Black Mana Floating
Storm count of six


Graveyard
Brainstorm
3 Dark Ritual
2 Underground Sea

19 life
48 cards in Library, top cards all unknown
Burning Wish already paid for and resolving
Land drop for turn is used up

Options are:

Past in Flames into Brainstorm with 9 B, 3 U, 1 uncracked Petal floating. Outs are 3 Burning Wish, 2 Ad Nauseam, 4 Infernal Tutor, 1 Tendrils, or 4 Brainstorm seeing 1 extra card and 3 Ponder seeing 2 extra cards to hit one of the above. Brainstorms/Ponders can also chain and Ponder chaining obviously sees more cards.

IGG into Brainstorm with 6 B, 3 U, 1 uncracked Petal and 1 untapped City of Brass. Same outs as above.

Burning Wish for Ponder with 6 Black, 3 U, uncracked Petal floating. Outs are same as above only your Storm count isn't lethal immediately off a Burning Wish (but is off Infernal from a chain).

Dim Ret with 4 B and 3 LED mana floating.


Form opinions, then continue

Some math:

Past in Flames line is 51% to just hit the kill off the Brainstorm. 29% to hit Brainstorm if you don't hit a kill, which gives you another 23% to hit the actual win or about +3%. Ponder is 39% to hit if you draw it, but you are only 22.5% to find it w/o a kill, another +4%. I did not account for finding Bstorm + Ponder off the first Brainstorm or any other cantrip chains. I think they at most add half a percent. That totals about 57-58% to kill. I assume IGG is similar but leaves less floating but an extra Blue to cantrip with, which seems irrel.

Ponder is only lethal from 7 cards in the deck, or 48% to just kill. Chaining Brainstorms and Ponders brings you to lethal storm off Burning Wish, and if you shuffle into a cantrip things get better as you have a full new 3 or 4 shots to hit. I'm too tired currently to do further percentages, but I have a feeling you at least come close to making up the 3% difference. Will come back a couple days later and finish this.

Dim Ret I have no clue. I went with this mostly as a matter of principle and I'm fairly sure it is the stone worst option despite winning. I assumed you were heavily favored to kill from that game state and likely to beat a counter, but I likely overestimated those and under estimated odds of him having two counters (even assuming Pierce is irrelevant). Some quick samples show me at about 75% to kill from this game state, but that's not enough. Exact breakdown from sample size of 20 is about 25% to fizzle (assuming dead, some hands could just go for it a turn or two later), 15% to have no backup, 35% to have single Duress, 10-15% to have Chant, 10-15% to have double Duress. Assuming Pierce is a dead card and 3 Snare, 2 Cspell, 4 Force, he is 65% to have at least one counter incorrectly assuming he always has a blue spell for Force, likely closer to 60% total accounting for that. So, of the single disruption hands you need to assuming the odds of him having two counters (or Snare + Snapcaster when you have just Duress) is less than 10-15% to make the percentages match Past in Flames. Double counter is probably more likely than that. I likely didn't lose too much percentage here, but it's significant (5-10% is my estimate).

[kiwi]

I think that another good option is burning wish to Diminishing Returns, I think that I would have tried this.

[JamieW89]

Against a Blade list w/o CSpell & Canonist I'd have waited but I think going here is better. Did he have anything in his grave to make Snapcaster a relevant topdeck? And side issues like time left and the result of game-1 can influence the decision to wait or go as well.

One question about the gamestate: Was the Stoneforge Mystic in hand or in play? In the unlikely event that it was still in his hand you could make 14 goblins tokens which would race the skull (-13,-11/+4). This obviously does not apply if it is already in play.

Assuming we're going for it and the SFM is in play there's two things to look at; What odds do I have at winning now? & If I don't; what're the chances of still winning later?
The BW->Ponder simply seems inferior to either IGG or PiF so we'll forgo that option.

IGG / PiF:
Almost the same outs to win now (close to 60%) but PiF can flashback for a chance later. To make up for this you can choose not to crack LED directly after IGG (float BB, make BBB BBB, use CoB to Brainstorm and Petal to Wish/Cantrip more, saccing LED for red if you cantrip more). In reality either option is unlikely to give you the win if you fizzle of Brainstorm. The slight increase in winning now from PiF (PiF->BS->Ponder->FB PiF->Ponder or similar lines) coming from the ability to flashback it will make me pick PiF over IGG.

DR:
I'm not a TES pilot so I have no experience with this card. Assuming your calcs are correct you lose close to 10% to win now with this option. You do however get the chance to go off later with the drawn 7 in some situations. I have no clue how often this happens, but I somewhat doubt it'll make up for the 10%.

TL;DR: If the SFM is in hand I go for tokens. If it is not I go for PiF as the flashback option makes it slightly better than IGG and the chance to win is higher than DR. It also doesn't make me shuffle; I hate shuffling.


Regarding Maverick:
Chanting their turn-1 upkeep on the play is often better than duressing. It stops turn-2 Zenith and Mindcensor whereas Duress often doesn't stop Mindcensor (other than stopping the Zenith->Arbor, t2 MC line) or multiple Zeniths. Both do nothing against Bears in hand, but chant does if cast on t2 ofc. Duress preempively takes Trap but most GW pilots don't play trap. Probe is a nice card to know what's up.
If they land their army of hatebears you'll just have to wish for Virtue's Ruin and kill them after.

[AriLax]

Against a Blade list w/o CSpell & Canonist I'd have waited but I think going here is better. Did he have anything in his grave to make Snapcaster a relevant topdeck? And side issues like time left and the result of game-1 can influence the decision to wait or go as well.

One question about the gamestate: Was the Stoneforge Mystic in hand or in play? In the unlikely event that it was still in his hand you could make 14 goblins tokens which would race the skull (-13,-11/+4). This obviously does not apply if it is already in play.

Assuming we're going for it and the SFM is in play there's two things to look at; What odds do I have at winning now? & If I don't; what're the chances of still winning later?
The BW->Ponder simply seems inferior to either IGG or PiF so we'll forgo that option.

IGG / PiF:
Almost the same outs to win now (close to 60%) but PiF can flashback for a chance later. To make up for this you can choose not to crack LED directly after IGG (float BB, make BBB BBB, use CoB to Brainstorm and Petal to Wish/Cantrip more, saccing LED for red if you cantrip more). In reality either option is unlikely to give you the win if you fizzle of Brainstorm. The slight increase in winning now from PiF (PiF->BS->Ponder->FB PiF->Ponder or similar lines) coming from the ability to flashback it will make me pick PiF over IGG.

DR:
I'm not a TES pilot so I have no experience with this card. Assuming your calcs are correct you lose close to 10% to win now with this option. You do however get the chance to go off later with the drawn 7 in some situations. I have no clue how often this happens, but I somewhat doubt it'll make up for the 10%.

TL;DR: If the SFM is in hand I go for tokens. If it is not I go for PiF as the flashback option makes it slightly better than IGG and the chance to win is higher than DR. It also doesn't make me shuffle; I hate shuffling.


Mystic was in play and active. If I wait Skull starts putting him out of actual range.

[Jim Higginbottom]

I'm pretty sure the percentages on d returns were added to the opening thread awhile back. They're pretty good anytime you have 2 mana floating and amazing if you haven't played a land yet.

[Bryant Cook]

Been TESing at local events as it has been proving more fun than UB and better against people who decide they want to show up with a million counters. Scenario of the night given the 2 Ad Naus, 0 Empty, 4/4 disruption split list. I’m glad to see that you’ve joined the ranks!


Game two opponent is on a control heavy Bant Blade list. You are going off (if you want to argue having waited here, go ahead). To the best of your knowledge, they have X Spell Pierce, X Counterspell, X Spell Snare, 4 Force of Will, and 3 Snapcaster Mage in their deck along side Canonists post-board. You do not know if they have any GY interaction, they appeared to board 6 or so cards in which is about right for Pierce + Canonist.

Game State:
Them-
3 Blue Duals untapped (Tundra, Trop, Trop if you care)
Stoneforge Mystic with 2 Batterskull in hand

You-
In play-
Untapped City of Brass (plus 2 Tapped Gemstone Mine)
Lotus Petal
Lion's Eye Diamond
6 Black Mana Floating
Storm count of six


Graveyard
Brainstorm
3 Dark Ritual
2 Underground Sea

19 life
48 cards in Library, top cards all unknown
Burning Wish already paid for and resolving
Land drop for turn is used up

The Snapcaster Mages are actually irrelevant. They don’t do anything with the current board state. If Burning Wish has resolved, I imagine you’re practically in the clear minus some sort of Stifle effect or waiting to get you on some sort of Pierce.


Options are:

Past in Flames into Brainstorm with 9 B, 3 U, 1 uncracked Petal floating. Outs are 3 Burning Wish, 2 Ad Nauseam, 4 Infernal Tutor, 1 Tendrils, or 4 Brainstorm seeing 1 extra card and 3 Ponder seeing 2 extra cards to hit one of the above. Brainstorms/Ponders can also chain and Ponder chaining obviously sees more cards. In my eyes it’s either this option or Diminishing Returns, it comes down to, “how lucky do you think you are?” Both options require a decent amount of luck, although, this scenario leaves a player cold to Stifle and Flusterstorm.


IGG into Brainstorm with 6 B, 3 U, 1 uncracked Petal and 1 untapped City of Brass. Same outs as above. Not an option, seems awful in comparison to the other choices.


Burning Wish for Ponder with 6 Black, 3 U, uncracked Petal floating. Outs are same as above only your Storm count isn't lethal immediately off a Burning Wish (but is off Infernal from a chain). Too risky, while being less mana, it doesn’t have the ability to beat stifle effects or any sort of disruption. Although, this play does avoid the graveyard to protect from Surgical Extraction.


Dim Ret with 4 B and 3 LED mana floating. (Avoids extraction)
This isn’t a bad option, with that amount of mana floating the kill percentages are actually much higher than you’d believe. It’s probably around that 75% you mentioned. If there’s a cantrip in the new hand the chances of winning skyrocket. There’s also the possibility to protect the kill between Chant effects and Duress. Although, they could in theory draw multiple counterspells. What does happen is an interesting interaction between Returns and SFM. They’re forced to vial in the Batterskull and tap two mana or lose it. Taking away their clock isn’t awful if you do manage to fizzle.


Form opinions, then continue

Some math:

Past in Flames line is 51% to just hit the kill off the Brainstorm. 29% to hit Brainstorm if you don't hit a kill, which gives you another 23% to hit the actual win or about +3%. Ponder is 39% to hit if you draw it, but you are only 22.5% to find it w/o a kill, another +4%. I did not account for finding Bstorm + Ponder off the first Brainstorm or any other cantrip chains. I think they at most add half a percent. That totals about 57-58% to kill. I assume IGG is similar but leaves less floating but an extra Blue to cantrip with, which seems irrel.

Ponder is only lethal from 7 cards in the deck, or 48% to just kill. Chaining Brainstorms and Ponders brings you to lethal storm off Burning Wish, and if you shuffle into a cantrip things get better as you have a full new 3 or 4 shots to hit. I'm too tired currently to do further percentages, but I have a feeling you at least come close to making up the 3% difference. Will come back a couple days later and finish this.

Dim Ret I have no clue. I went with this mostly as a matter of principle and I'm fairly sure it is the stone worst option despite winning. I assumed you were heavily favored to kill from that game state and likely to beat a counter, but I likely overestimated those and under estimated odds of him having two counters (even assuming Pierce is irrelevant). Some quick samples show me at about 75% to kill from this game state, but that's not enough. Exact breakdown from sample size of 20 is about 25% to fizzle (assuming dead, some hands could just go for it a turn or two later), 15% to have no backup, 35% to have single Duress, 10-15% to have Chant, 10-15% to have double Duress. Assuming Pierce is a dead card and 3 Snare, 2 Cspell, 4 Force, he is 65% to have at least one counter incorrectly assuming he always has a blue spell for Force, likely closer to 60% total accounting for that. So, of the single disruption hands you need to assuming the odds of him having two counters (or Snare + Snapcaster when you have just Duress) is less than 10-15% to make the percentages match Past in Flames. Double counter is probably more likely than that. I likely didn't lose too much percentage here, but it's significant (5-10% is my estimate).

I follow you here, but there’s always the chance you draw the double protection hand. It’s a lot of “What if’s”, drawing the natural Tendrils is also almost a guaranteed win here. As you mentioned, you could always go off a turn or two later also, especially considering that they’ve shuffled back in Batterskull. I believe the best option was in fact Diminishing Returns, not Past in Flames.

I’d type more, but I’m at work. I don’t know if this helped or not, it’s just what I’d do.



I'm pretty sure the percentages on d returns were added to the opening thread awhile back. They're pretty good anytime you have 2 mana floating and amazing if you haven't played a land yet.

Opening post.

[leegoo]

With the mana you have leftover I think Returns is right, although PiF is tempting.

While it looks like DR is the "risky" option, I think it's actually the safest. If he untaps with batterskull you are most likely out of the game even after Returns, but you are 100% out of the game if you don't hit off bstorm, so at that point I would rather take my chances with him having 1 mana (I mean... he's going to put bskull into play) and a fresh 7 vs. my fresh 7 + 8 mana.

I would play it by tapping a city + saccing the petal (and using 2 floating B) and leaving LED unbroken, which will still let you cast anything + make Infernal live.

(edit) after re-reading Ari's (I reed gud) post I suppose that option put's you off of having red mana for burning wish. I'd still leave LED up, but it does make it a bit worse.

[Occam]

PiF is tempting, but the best play involving PiF would have been to ship the turn without playing anything. PiF has no life requirement if you dig into a bomb that isn't AdN, generates lethal storm by itself even with batterskull's +4 with a draw that isn't a land/artifact and has no opponent-related variance. Not sure what the opponent's hand looks like, but I won't expect Stoneblade to board in extraction against TES. Drawing a cantrip or bomb next turn almost certainly wins with PiF.

Dreturns is the safest play, you only lose if the opponent draws at least X+1 pieces of relevant disruption, where X is the number of protection spells you draw, or if you don't draw into a bomb. I see the point the above poster made about not cracking LED to make IT live, but I can't say I necessarily agree. With only CoB untapped, along with LED/petal, not cracking LED means you cut yourself off wish and cantrips, which are 9-10 cards depending on how many ponders were taken out in sideboarding. You must crack LED, which leaves CoB + petal and U, which means you get naturally hellbent if you draw IT in any case, unless you draw a hand with 3 ponders, no wish and no artifact mana.

The better question would be if the DReturns play would have been better served without making the land-drop, ie before reaching your current board state. Assuming you played Petal/LED/3 drit/wish to reach the board state, the only time pierce is relevant is when you play your first drit, and there is no way Dreturns is viable paying for that pierce -- once the first drit resolves, pierce doesn't matter anymore. Stoneblade doesn't really play Daze, but paying for Daze with a Gemstone Mine is still fine -- you can make the land drop after daze and end up floating U and a Petal post DReturns for non-B mana, the same as what you would have if you kept the land drop without daze. If you made your land drop, you probably lose to a post Returns hand with a land, IT and without bs. The only thing that would be awkward is if you draw into a chant effect without getting a petal or a land, while having wish, but the chances of not getting a petal or a land (14-15/56 with a draw 7) are low.

[lorddotm]

I actually think IGG is the better line than PiF since if you miss off of the Brainstorm, it gives you the highest chance of being able to go off again (since you would have a Petal in play, along with City and DR+LED, in comparison to needing 6-7 mana with no rituals and an empty graveyard). On top of that their hand just got reduced to 3 from whatever.

So that makes it between DR and IGG, and at that point, I think it is just between how lucky you feel because in the moment there is almost no chance you would be able to do the math. In retrospect, I'm sure there is a right play, but I can't actually do the math.

[Occam]

I think most people didn't choose IGG as it's against blue, but then and again I don't think any counterspells would have been binned as there are no discard effects and spells that weren't played this turn in the grave. Another strike against PiF this turn is that it requires red, which means you need to either tap city or sac petal. IGG also gives you cards to put back with bs, so drawing into the nuts like chant + IT is almost an autowin. PiF is probably the better play than IGG overall, but only if you pass the turn.

I might run something in excel when I've some spare time.

[lorddotm]

PiF is probably the better play than IGG overall, but only if you pass the turn.

I actually explained why that is untrue.

[Occam]

Two completely different situations, right? IGG is better because 1) there probably aren't any counterspells in the blade player's grave, 2) it uses black which leaves more coloured mana open, 3) it leaves cards in your hand. With a draw or two to reduce cantrip variance after wishing for PiF without casting anything else, there are definitely a lot of situations where PiF is better. PiF itself plays around countermagic better with flashback, which is relevant if you draw something which means the card they are countering is not restricted to your only out for both IGG and PiF, the brainstorm in your grave. PiF generates more storm -- lethal without flashback on PiF itself, which makes it more likely to win through Batterskull's lifegain.

If you go off with IGG and fail, you have two rits in hand, but it means that you are forced to win with AdN or BW into PiF/Dreturns to get enough storm. With PiF, you don't go off that turn, but drawing any relevant card practically ensures a win with the mana available, can easily win through 8 life gained from batterskull, and every draw you brick on makes the brainstorm less likely to brick. They really aren't the same, and should not be evaluated as though they were both cast on that same turn.

All that is also difficult to discuss without knowing what the opponent has in his grave. Even a brainstorm changes matters.

[lorddotm]

Two completely different situations, right? IGG is better because 1) there probably aren't any counterspells in the blade player's grave, 2) it uses black which leaves more coloured mana open, 3) it leaves cards in your hand. With a draw or two to reduce cantrip variance after wishing for PiF without casting anything else, there are definitely a lot of situations where PiF is better. PiF itself plays around countermagic better with flashback, which is relevant if you draw something which means the card they are countering is not restricted to your only out for both IGG and PiF, the brainstorm in your grave. PiF generates more storm -- lethal without flashback on PiF itself, which makes it more likely to win through Batterskull's lifegain.

If you go off with IGG and fail, you have two rits in hand, but it means that you are forced to win with AdN or BW into PiF/Dreturns to get enough storm. With PiF, you don't go off that turn, but drawing any relevant card practically ensures a win with the mana available, can easily win through 8 life gained from batterskull, and every draw you brick on makes the brainstorm less likely to brick. They really aren't the same, and should not be evaluated as though they were both cast on that same turn.

All that is also difficult to discuss without knowing what the opponent has in his grave. Even a brainstorm changes matters.

What you are failing to remember is that to PiF you have to break LED, which means you need to draw an action spell+mana if you fizzle, while with IGG you have to draw an action spell and then you can try and get something going again, however unlikely that may be, it is a higher chance than PiF.

[Occam]

I'm not talking about PiF this turn, in which case you would indeed have to break LED for blue or red. I'm talking about wish for PiF without having cast anything else, and pass/draw. You won't need to break LED then, as you free up the mine that was tapped for wish.

[leegoo]

What you are failing to remember is that to PiF you have to break LED, which means you need to draw an action spell+mana if you fizzle, while with IGG you have to draw an action spell and then you can try and get something going again, however unlikely that may be, it is a higher chance than PiF.

In either case, if brainstorm misses an action spell you have to hit a fetchland to have any chance at all passing the turn.

[aljiichiban]

Just wanted to share. Played at a Local tourney yesterday and finished 3-0-1 with TES(1st)

Round 1: Elfball
G1: I mulled to 5 but his cabal therapy misses. Went off with Ad Nauseam> Tendrils for 22
G2: His Cabal Therapy hits my 3 dark rituals. Then he played surgical and Null Rod. My Diminishing Returns whiffs. He went off his turn and continued to rape my hand and library with Cabal and Surgical. I told my self I'm gonna grapeshot this guy on G3 when I get the chance.
G3: Duresed his surgical and Thoughtseized his Scavenging Ooze. Went off with Ad Naueam on my turn> "GRAPESHOT for 20". I could have made it longer but he wasn't a douche, so I stopped there.

Round 2: Mono Black Discard
G1: Mulled to 5 for the 2nd time. He plays the classic Darkrit>Duress>Hymm.
G2: I played the classic T1 Ad Nauseam>Tendrils for 26
G3: It was my turn to disrupt his hand with Duress and Thoughtseize. Then went off with Ad Nausaem>Past in Flames> Tendrils for 26

Round 3: UW stoneblade
G1: He plays the T2 Stoneforge>batterskull. After I passed my turn and his, I went off with Ad Naus on my next turn after he counters my Orim's.
G2: My Thoughtseize was met by his spell pierce. He played his T2 Stoneforge>batterskull. Then I played my duress for his FOW, then pondered to a second Duress for his Batterskull. Having only Burning wish on my hand and lands as the only cards left on his, I decided to go for ETW(he was down to 16 that point). The goblins went the distance.

Round 4: Tempo Thresh(RUG)

ID(not confident yet that I can beat this deck due to lack of playtesting against this. So I agreed/negotiated to draw)

Got Store Credit and a BYE for a next Major Tourney.

[kiwi]

One doubt, Do you think that the hands with a lot of mana producers but without manipulation or tutors are mulligan?

For example : 2 Land, 2 led, 3 dark ritual keep or mulligan ?

[Namida]

Mulligan. If you just don't draw a business spell, you die.

[leegoo]

Mulligan. If you just don't draw a business spell, you die.

Agree, although besides business, if you are playing against a deck with any form of disruption you are also missing protection. A whole lot has to go right in 2 (maybe 3) draw steps for you to have any shot.

[Dark Ritual]

Only keep the double LED and triple dark rit hand if you're feeling extremely lucky and want to gamble a lot. Because if you don't draw business you straight lose. I know I kept that hand one time although it was 1 land, 3 LED, 3 dark rit's, and I got bailed out by my opponent tapping tarnished citadel at least 2 times for colored mana and him misplaying by not stripping my hand with a pair of therapies when he was able to and I topdecked tendrils for the win. That will rarely happen though as no optimal dredge build runs tarnished citadel with most opting for undiscovered paradise. But you should typically mulligan the all mana hand unless you've already mulled down to 4 or something quite low where the all mana hand can get there if you draw perfectly.

[Bryant Cook]

Thalia, Guardian of Thraben 1w
Legendary Creature - Human Soldier Rare
First Strike
Noncreature spells cost 1 more to cast.
"Thraben is our home and I will not see it fall to this unhallowed horde."
Illus. Jana Schirmer & Jonannaes Voss #24/158 2/1

While this creature isn't the end of TES or combo, it's another obstacle to play around. I'm unsure if it's better than Ethersworn Cannonist or Teeg against us, but it's another option for storm haters. I'm not happy about this printing.

[stasis]

Thalia, Guardian of Thraben 1w
Legendary Creature - Human Soldier Rare
First Strike
Noncreature spells cost 1 more to cast.
"Thraben is our home and I will not see it fall to this unhallowed horde."
Illus. Jana Schirmer & Jonannaes Voss #24/158 2/1

While this creature isn't the end of TES or combo, it's another obstacle to play around. I'm unsure if it's better than Ethersworn Cannonist or Teeg against us, but it's another option for storm haters. I'm not happy about this printing.

Thank god its Legendary.
I would say Canonist and Teeg is better as they are easier to tutor for.

[leegoo]

Thalia, Guardian of Thraben 1w
Legendary Creature - Human Soldier Rare
First Strike
Noncreature spells cost 1 more to cast.
"Thraben is our home and I will not see it fall to this unhallowed horde."
Illus. Jana Schirmer & Jonannaes Voss #24/158 2/1

While this creature isn't the end of TES or combo, it's another obstacle to play around. I'm unsure if it's better than Ethersworn Cannonist or Teeg against us, but it's another option for storm haters. I'm not happy about this printing.

Unless some form of hater deck becomes viable, or some aggro control deck adopts a love for sphere effects, I can't see this thing even seeing SB use in any current deck. The only decks that I can see remotely wanting it are either Maverick or D&T... and both already have better options available.

It is better than Glowrider I suppose.

[dillonkbase]

At least it's legendary.... also it's not really better than canonist, they both say, "play about one spell per turn".

[metalhead]

Not only am I glad its legendary. I'm glad its white instead pf green. At least opponents can't GSZ for it and it dies to virtues ruin for those that play it.

[thefringthing]

This hatebear might justify a different bounce split in the sideboard if it becomes popular. Making Echoing Truth cost 3 is pretty irritating.

[kiwi]

I don't see chalice of the void very often, and about wipe away its more strange to see counterbalance than before.

I think that if the new bear would see a lot of play its not a bad idea to replace echoing truth, moreover white decks has wasteland too and having 3 mana for bouncing Thalia can be hard.

From my point of view the best options for replacing echoing truth are Slaughter Pact, Path to exile and lightning bolt.

[Tammit67]

From my point of view the best options for replacing echoing truth are Slaughter Pact, Path to exile and lightning bolt.

That just seems worse than Chain of vapor or another deathmark.

[j_rb]

From my point of view the best options for replacing echoing truth are Slaughter Pact, Path to exile and lightning bolt.

Really path or bolt? I would run a chain lightning before I ran bolt. I guess it being instant would warrant it's use, but chain of vapor just seems better.


That just seems worse than Chain of vapor or another deathmark.

Completely agree, an extra chain would work. Chain being instant also help a bit in the maverick MU for hitting mindcensors.

[kiwi]

Excuse me, I didnt remember chain of vapor :)

[cuthbertthecat]

What are the biggest differences between this deck and ANT? I've been playing ANT for a while now, but just tendrilsing my opponent each game has gotten boring, not to mention that TES looks way prettier foiled out than ANT. Anywho, are the kinds of hands to keep different than with ANT? I understand that TES is supposed to turn 1/2 as opposed to ANTs turn 2/3, does this mean that hands full of cantrips are bad? Also, how many chrome moxen in an opener is too many to keep it (I assume 2 or more), and how aggresively should I be using them (for example, early on to cast cantrips)? Should you hold back land drops if you think your opponent has a waste?

[rxavage]

I’m on the draw with: gemstone mine, gemstone mine , city of brass, chrome mox, infernal tutor, ponder, and brainstorm, keep? I said to myself “what the f*ck, I’ll never know if I don’t go for it” and kept. My opponent drops a memnite, mox opal, and ancient den (I know whats coming next), then comes the sfm for batterskull. I draw lotus petal. I need duress so I play a gemstone mine and ponder into duress luckily, shuffle, imprint infernal tutor on mox and duress the batterskull. It’s turn two and opponent top decks another sfm going for another batterskull but it’s in his sb so he grabs cranial plating, drops seat of the synod and passes. I draw brainstorm, drop another mine and brainstorm into: volcanic island, led, and dark ritual putting the volcanic and city of brass back on top. This is when I realize I am screwed without a shuffle effect and probably have no chance so I go for it and brainstorm seeing the volcanic and city of brass I put back along with my saving grace, infernal tutor. Once again I put the volcanic and city back. i proceed to drop the lotus petal and led, then tap the mox playing dark rit so I can cast my naturally hellbent infernal tutor for ad nauseam cracking led for BBB in response. I find AN and sac the petal for B and cast AN. I ad nauseam down to 5 life, stopping in fear of revealing the second AN, revealing: lands, 3 dark rit, 2 rite of flame, lotus petal, 2 led, 2 infernal tutors, and 3 burning wish. I drop the petal and led’s, sac petal for B then play the dark rits floating BBBBBBB. I cast infernal tutor, revealing burning wish, for burning wish cracking one led for BBB and the other for RRR. Now with RRR and nine B in the pool I discard the rest of my hand and cast burning wish for past in flames. I use the remaining R in the pool to cast both rite of flame putting me at 4R and 9B. I cast the past in flames, leaving 3R and 6B in the pool, I flashback the rituals leaving me with 7R and 14B. The storm count is 23 and I’m at 5 life, at this point I have to stop and think about where I going to go with this. I’m contemplating trying ill-gotten gains to up the count but because I haven’t ever used igg I'm not confident about that route. Next I contemplate using tendrils to up the count but I cannot instantly determine the correct math so I abandon that road and just flashback burning wish for grapeshot. I told my opponent that I save the massive grapeshot for douche bag a$$holes, he doesn’t know I am new to the deck and barely have a clue how to play or the fact that I was extremely lucky and he wasn’t playing blue.

How would I have been able to get the storm count higher with IGG and/or splitting the tendrils damage?

[Basaka]

How would I have been able to get the storm count higher with IGG and/or splitting the tendrils damage?

Tendrils him, targeting him enough times to leave him with 2 or 1 life, the rest at yourself (for no life change)
Use your new 16-18 life to AdN again, and enjoy

[rxavage]

Tendrils him, targeting him enough times to leave him with 2 or 1 life, the rest at yourself (for no life change)
Use your new 16-18 life to AdN again, and enjoy

That's what i was thinking but i wasn't sure. thanks. can you flashback the rituals again if you flashback the pif?

[Basaka]

The correct way will be:

cast Tendrils
cast AdN from graveyard
cast all your rituals from AdN
flashback PiF (creates a new timestamp that makes all the rituals you just cast have flashback)
cast the rituals still in your yard

[Dark Ritual]

When you flashback dark ritual and company after casting past in flames they're exiled so you can't cast them again. But Basaka had it right in terms of how to grapeshot for nearly 60 damage or so depending on how much storm you generate.

[Trentemoller]

I decided to play TES for the first time in my life at a reasonable sized tournament, went 5-2 and wrote a report, you can find it here:

Tournament Report (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?22977-Playing-TES-Amsterdam-Open)

Considering the amount of FoWs, Chalices, Chants, Duresses, Cannonists and Cliques I saw and the lack of experience and sleep I am very happy with the result. I enjoyed the deck a lot and I'm certainly going to play this deck more often. Going to test it and tweak some lists!

[thefringthing]

Tournament Report (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?22977-Playing-TES-Amsterdam-Open)Your list strikes me as sort of sketchy. I don't mind cutting the fourth Chrome Mox and the running a maindeck Empty the Warrens, but cutting stuff like the fourth Infernal Tutor for Gitaxian Probes doesn't seem very good.

As I think you realized, your issues with Chalice could have been solved by playing a different mix of bounce spells in the sideboard.

Nice work overall.

[KevinTrudeau]

I won a Tundra at a ~forty man Big 1.5 this past Saturday (top four split) with the old standard 4/4 Duress/Chant allocation and Deathmark over Silent Departure in the sideboard. Everything went smoothly up until the top eight match, where I did my best to punt away the set, yet still won. I beat (in chronological order) UW Stoneblade (2-0), Belcher (2-0), Zoo (2-1), Nic Fit (2-0), intentionally drew rounds five and six, and then beat Imperial Painter (2-1). Highlights included:

-Duressing my round one opponent in game one, leaving two Spell Snare in hand, and then subsequently Chanting into the win the following turn.
-Getting somewhat lucky against Belcher during game two by only taking eight off of the initial Charbelcher activation on turn two, and then winning soon after.
-Casting Echoing Truth, targeting my two LEDs, for the sole purpose of storm for the first time ever (was a necessary action, no showboating whatsoever). I lost that game to a Mindbreak Trap I couldn't afford to play around, but ended up winning what turned out to be a very close and exciting match against Zoo.
-Not having a heart attack against my Nic Fit opponent, who said it was the only way he was winning game one.
-Getting to use the Chrome Mox trick, for the first time ever in a tournament, during round four.

Disappointments (however slight they may be) included:
-Being slightly less comfortable during the entirety of the tournament due to not wearing Zubaz.
-Not ever casting Diminishing Returns; I usually cast it at least once in every tournament I play TES in.
-Not finding the two Time Spirals and three Flusterstorms via trade I needed to complete Spiral Tide, nor the Jace, Glen Elendra, Vendilion Clique, and Palinchron that're still missing from my Azami EDH deck.

My top eight match, against Imperial Painter, was incredibly close. I made three punts, one in game one and two in game three. The first one was not casting one of the two Rite of Flame I had in hand to guarantee my Shattering Spree could destroy both parts of the Painter/Grindstone tandem he had in play. I sent a 2/1 split at Painter/Grindstone respectively while he had a lone Mountain untapped; the notion of generating four mana to dodge an REB came up, but I quickly dismissed that excellent thought with a 'meh'. He then countered the copy targeting Grindstone with a Pyroblast, dropped a second Painter the following turn, and won on the turn after that (Blood Moon had been in play since his second turn if you're wondering, stifling both of our manabases and explaining how I had all of that red mana). The second punt occurred when, on my turn three, on the draw, with a hand of Ad Nauseam, Infernal Tutor, Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, Wipe Away, Burning Wish, Rite of Flame, and Chrome Mox, I chose to discard the Mox (he'd a Leyline of the Void and Chalice of the Void set at zero in play, with another Chalice and a Thorn of Amethyst in hand) after he'd cast a Blood Moon on his third turn. The third and most embarrassing one was when I forgot to play both LEDs after blowing up both Thorn and the Chalice at zero with Shattering Spree, him having a Blood Moon in play and still having held back on the second Chalice. I just quickly said, "Go" after having plotted for several turns to lay down both immediately after eventually Wishing for Spree, but alas, it was not to be. Thankfully enough, he cast the Chalice the following turn at one, and I topdecked a Lotus Petal the turn after that to Ad Nauseam from sixteen life for the win.

I was very satisfied with the 4/4 split. If I were to play TES at a larger event though, such as a Grand Prix, I would definitely consider the 3/5 split and Silent Departure over Deathmark/Wipe Away, although I still think I'd like the sideboard discard spell to be Thoughtseize instead of the fourth Duress. One thing I am certain of now is that Shattering Spree is probably better than Meltdown, due to that last match.

[Dark Ritual]

You know I have 2 time spiral's and a lone flusterstorm to trade to you right lol. Overall good job, if you had lost to imperial painter though...at least you didn't, as I despise imperial painter as it's just a bastard child of dragon stompy IMHO that isn't winning with rakdos pit dragon and is trying to win with painterstone instead.

On the gitaxian probe TES list. I haven't tried it out so I'm not sure whether it's better than standard TES or not. Probe is a nice card, but this deck revolves around ad nauseam and the 2 life can potentially matter with ad nauseam if you aren't lucky with flipping cards.

[Trentemoller]

Gitaxian Probe was very good for me all day. Sure sometimes the 2 life can make the difference with Ad Nauseam but it can also help you when you flip them with Ad Nauseam. Say you Ad Nauseam without mana floating, and you get 2 LEDs, a Chrome Mox, a random blue card, Burning Wish, Brainstorm and a Probe (or you had one of those on hand before resolving it) you can play the mox, imprint a blue card, brainstorm the wish on top, play the two leds probe and in response sac the LEDs for BBBRRR and draw the wish. This happened to me twice in the tournament. Not saying this is that common but it's certainly not irrelevant and shows that it can actually help you kill with drawing less cards from Ad Nauseam. Also the information is very useful. You know how much time you have, how much counters they have, your cantrips get a lot better if you know what you have to battle because you know what you are looking for. If they have an aggressive hand without disruption you need to find the win asap, if they have a pierce, a fow and a snare you need to find protection etc. I was really happy with them. I borrowed a few cards from a friend and bought some others and now have the deck complete on MTGO as well :) I'm 2-1 at 2-mans while facing 2 chalice decks which was nice.

In game 2 vs the Jace/Tezz Stax deck I mulled to 6 and knew he played 8 sol lands and 4 mox diamonds while also playing 4 chalice and 4 trinisphere and maybe more hate. I get the following cards: Brainstorm, Underground Sea, LED, LED, Petal, Chrome Mox. I kept and went all-in on the brainstorm, figuring that is my best shot at winning this tough game. I had three draws for an infernal tutor, a burning wish or the empty the warrens with perhaps a redraw from a ponder or another brainstorm. Is this the correct line? I got there with 14 tokens which was sweet.

[Final Ritual]

In game 2 vs the Jace/Tezz Stax deck I mulled to 6 and knew he played 8 sol lands and 4 mox diamonds while also playing 4 chalice and 4 trinisphere and maybe more hate. I get the following cards: Brainstorm, Underground Sea, LED, LED, Petal, Chrome Mox. I kept and went all-in on the brainstorm, figuring that is my best shot at winning this tough game. I had three draws for an infernal tutor, a burning wish or the empty the warrens with perhaps a redraw from a ponder or another brainstorm. Is this the correct line? I got there with 14 tokens which was sweet.

Why didn't you just go for it on turn two? Brainstorm turn 1 put back infernal tutor and wish and play both LED's in case he sets chalice to zero. Draw tutor play chrome mox imprinting EtW play infernal tutor crack both LEDs for bbbuuu grab AdN pay and float U.

[akmalik]

In game 2 vs the Jace/Tezz Stax deck I mulled to 6 and knew he played 8 sol lands and 4 mox diamonds while also playing 4 chalice and 4 trinisphere and maybe more hate. I get the following cards: Brainstorm, Underground Sea, LED, LED, Petal, Chrome Mox. I kept and went all-in on the brainstorm, figuring that is my best shot at winning this tough game. I had three draws for an infernal tutor, a burning wish or the empty the warrens with perhaps a redraw from a ponder or another brainstorm. Is this the correct line? I got there with 14 tokens which was sweet.

39% that you find a Wish, EtW or Infernal in the first Brainstorm
37% you fail to find a cantrip or winoption

If you hit another bs (16%) you win only with 16% in this cantrip.
with ponder (21%) its about 29%
Not really sure about the math...

I think in this matchup its just better to play some artefacts and wait. With all the Mana in play there are only a few things that can disrupt you (chalice @2, Revoker on LED or other crappy things).

[AriLax]

Highlights of Wednesday night Legacy:

-Enchantress opponent had T0 Leyline of Sanctity game two, untapped with Enchantress 2-3 times that game, and had Aura of Silence, 2 Leyline, Solitary up at the start of my turn. He immediately died to Chain Aura -> Ad Naus -> Past in Flames -> dead.
-Game 1, turn one Maverick off Dim Ret (he was on the play with a Noble + only could Empty for 12 which isn't enough to beat a Stoneforge). Game two, we both mull, then he goes to 3. He passes on one, I look at top card then flip the Infernal to go with my Dark Rit, land, 2 LED hand.
-Actually pulled off the Chrome Mox trick. BUG opponent Inquisitions on 1, taking Ponder out of 2x Bstorm, Sea, Duress, Chrome Mox, Ponder. I Duress, he has Bob, Bob, Snapcaster. He taps out for Bob, I Brainstorm, stack Ad Naus on top, land, LED, LED, Mox, trigger on the stack Bstorm, sac LEDs in response, draw Ad Naus, cast with trigger on etc.
-Vs. Burn I lead Ritual, Infernal for Ritual, Duress, he Bolt + Fireblasts me in response to empty his hand with 2 lands left and me at 3 life. I Ritual -> Ritual -> Tendrils for 8 storm after he had Flame Rifted. Thanks for the help!

[thefringthing]

Cook's Kitchen - Updating Storm (http://jupitergamesonline.com/2012/1070/cooks-kitchen-updating-storm)

I wonder what Bryant thinks of Ari's suggestion of running additional copies of Empty the Warrens over Pyroblast in the sideboard to bring in against non-SFM blue decks. I tried that plan at a GPT this weekend and liked it. (Though an awful blunder of saying "both black" out of habit while cracking LEDs lost me a critical game. Obviously my opponent in the next round, one of the co-inventors of Canadian Threshold, is on a Countertop homebrew.)

[lorddotm]

I've stopped taking Magic seriously at all and I'm going to sell most/all of my collection. Now you can stop PMing me about my decklist. Thanks.

[thefringthing]

I've stopped taking Magic seriously at all and I'm going to sell most/all of my collection. Now you can stop PMing me about my decklist. Thanks. I'll buy your deck for a hundo. ;)

[Trentemoller]

I played EtW 2x in my SB, it's your best weapon against Tempo Thresh, just drawing it naturally makes it a lot easier to win through taxing counters and even regular counters. Making 10 goblins is usually game unless they can race you with a flipped Delver. I'm going to make some changes to my list. Could you guys post your current list? I'm not very impressed with Xantid Swarm, pyroblast seems a bit better, online Counterbalance has become a little bit more popular and it seems pretty good in that matchup.

[Tammit67]

I played EtW 2x in my SB, it's your best weapon against Tempo Thresh, just drawing it naturally makes it a lot easier to win through taxing counters and even regular counters. Making 10 goblins is usually game unless they can race you with a flipped Delver. I'm going to make some changes to my list. Could you guys post your current list? I'm not very impressed with Xantid Swarm, pyroblast seems a bit better, online Counterbalance has become a little bit more popular and it seems pretty good in that matchup.

Read the opening post. Its always up to date

[Trentemoller]

No offense to Bryant Cook, but I'm more interested in your lists. I don't like straight copying a list unless I have no clue about the deck. Seeing some different lists helps me get ideas for my own build and what works for me and why people chose for certain choices for their deck. Or is everybody just playing every new update Bryant is playing?

[Goin Aggro]

I've stopped taking Magic seriously at all and I'm going to sell most/all of my collection. Now you can stop PMing me about my decklist. Thanks.

If you're really bailing out, I'd be interested in offering/purchasing on your FBB/Pimp stuff.

Let me know, I'm a local player, so we can always meet in person if you'd like.

[thefringthing]

It's always up to date.It's usually not. Bryant updates the list occasionally, but the rest of the post has been out of date forever.


No offense to Bryant Cook, but I'm more interested in your lists.My list is currently Bryant's maindeck with the following sideboard: 1 Tendrils of Agony, 1 Ill-Gotten Gains, 1 Past in Flames, 1 Diminishing Returns, 1 Deathmark, 1 Duress, 1 Shattering Spree, 1 Silent Departure, 1 Pyroclasm, 2 Echoing Truth, 1 Chain of Vapor, 3 Empty the Warrens

[Bryant Cook]

It's usually not. Bryant updates the list occasionally, but the rest of the post has been out of date forever.

My list is currently Bryant's maindeck with the following sideboard: 1 Tendrils of Agony, 1 Ill-Gotten Gains, 1 Past in Flames, 1 Diminishing Returns, 1 Deathmark, 1 Duress, 1 Shattering Spree, 1 Silent Departure, 1 Pyroclasm, 2 Echoing Truth, 1 Chain of Vapor, 3 Empty the Warrens

Let me start out by saying this thread has one of the best opening posts on the forum. Don't knock it until you write and compile something better.

The actual content doesn't need to be updated very often, really only the deck list does. Although, I like to believe that I'm kind enough to update it frequently enough for people. Whenever there's a change to the deck list it's on the opening post, same could be said for links, reports, and articles.

I don't care if people don't run my list. I just don't want to hear it if they're losing. I don't run the ETW plan for a reason, it's bad right now.

Bringing in a card that has problems with Stifle in a Stifle infested meta game is a good idea? Not to mention, it's only good versus non-Stoneforge decks. SFM is still quite popular. I like my cards to be a bit more versatile.

I'm done ranting, it's time to watch Californication.

[Tammit67]

TES top 8's under a pilot who doesn't have -that- much experience with the deck. People need to play more Dark ritual

[Final Ritual]

TES top 8's under a pilot who doesn't have -that- much experience with the deck. People need to play more Dark ritual

I think the metagame is begining to shift towards more G/W based aggro decks. Before the go to hate U deck was merfolk which given a good draw could present issues to a storm deck. Now everyone abandoned fish to play maverick. Also reanimator has slipped back some.

I agree this seems to be a very good time to be casting rituals.

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Silence

+2 Gitaxian Probe

Get there

[j_rb]

-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Silence

+2 Gitaxian Probe

Get there

I agree, probe is rather useful in multiple situations. I have been playing 3 in TES and really like it.

[Tammit67]

I agree, probe is rather useful in multiple situations. I have been playing 3 in TES and really like it.

Play the deck enough without probe, and you start to be able to tell what the opponent has in hand to stop you. You'd really rather not have probe in the long run.

[Bryant Cook]

Someone top 8'd SCG: DC with T.E.S... Hopefully he had some feature matches for the opening post.

Decklist (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=43391)

[Damoxx]

Someone top 8'd SCG: DC with T.E.S... Hopefully he had some feature matches for the opening post.

Decklist (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=43391)

I did see it in action during the coverage, the T8 matchup against Ali's Loam/Pox. It did seem that Ali was always one step ahead. Can't wait for the replay.


Spoiler Alert: Extraction on Burning Wish with Tendrils in the 'yard is rough. [/sarcasm]

[thefringthing]

Let me start out by saying this thread has one of the best opening posts on the forum. Don't knock it until you write and compile something better.I wrote the Belcher primer on Sally (which, admittedly, I have allowed to become out-of-date since I seldom read the Sally forums anymore). I agree that your primer is one of the better ones on the Source.

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

Play the deck enough without probe, and you start to be able to tell what the opponent has in hand to stop you. You'd really rather not have probe in the long run.

I'm no master of the deck, so I need the information. Especially at high level events.

Also, the main reason for probe is that it acts as a free storm. Including 2 means you can drop a mana source (worst one being Chrome mox), while also upping the cantrip count.

These changes have worked for me. If you've been having success with the stock list, more power to you.

[Bryant Cook]

I wrote the Belcher primer on Sally (which, admittedly, I have allowed to become out-of-date since I seldom read the Sally forums anymore). I agree that your primer is one of the better ones on the Source.

I just looked at, I'm just missing an image on top and one line describing each card in the deck...


I'm no master of the deck, so I need the information. Especially at high level events.

Also, the main reason for probe is that it acts as a free storm. Including 2 means you can drop a mana source (worst one being Chrome mox), while also upping the cantrip count.

These changes have worked for me. If you've been having success with the stock list, more power to you.

Paying two life for free storm is never worth it in a deck that uses it's life total as a resource in order to win the game. Well, you could just pay a blue and draw a random card. Then realize your opponent still has all of those counterspells. Probe doesn't actually do anything, players are better off running more Duress if they want a peak at the opponents hand.

[j_rb]

Paying two life for free storm is never worth it in a deck that uses it's life total as a resource in order to win the game. Well, you could just pay a blue and draw a random card. Then realize your opponent still has all of those counterspells. Probe doesn't actually do anything, players are better off running more Duress if they want a peak at the opponents hand.

I also don't think if you are using probe for a storm you are using it correctly. It isn't a free storm, it's a setup for a business spell. It lets you brainstorm and put some business spell on top then probe into it for the win and it lets you do it early in the game. I'm sure most people are seeing probe and thinking you just wait for your combo turn and use it for a free card and storm, but you would be mistaken.
I've played the stock version and the gp amsterdam version with a couple changes (I.E. one with probe) and the probes aren't necessary I was merely stating they are useful in certain situations (I'm sure some have been discussed) and can help the deck be faster (even though it's already pretty fast). I feel they aren't necessary in terms of adding storm or peeking (which isn't useful in most cases), but they can setup some ridiculous plays that, in some cases, would require 2 brainstorms, which takes up your precious mana. Also, on the point of using your life total as a resource, yes the deck does, but the decks curve is sooo low you can win at really low life totals. I have rarely fizzled off of an ad nauseam at lower life totals. Hell, I've won a game or 2 off of ad nauseam at 6 before. It requires some luck but it happens. Now if you are looking to rapeshot someone for 100 damage, yea it requires a nice life total to ad nauseam from, but for the straight up tendrils win can be done easily at 12. Also, probe sets up situations where you don't even need ad nauseam to hit 10 storm.

ps. I'm not advocating the strict use of gitaxian probe in tes, I'm just throwing out some reasoning on why it CAN be played in tes.

[John Cox]

I also don't think if you are using probe for a storm you are using it correctly. It isn't a free storm, it's a setup for a business spell. It lets you brainstorm and put some business spell on top then probe into it for the win and it lets you do it early in the game.

I agree in that people shouldn't use it for free storm. However, I wouldn't advocate your play. It would make more sense to probe first, then brainstorm and put 2 cards back, seeing an extra card from the deal.
Probe is really only good for a free peek , the deck doesn't need to ramp up it's storm count as it has Ad Nauseam and Ill-Gotten Gains for that and I have doubts as to how useful a free peek really is.

[thefringthing]

I just looked at, I'm just missing an image on top and one line describing each card in the deck... Your primer is definitely a bit more in-depth than that one. My point was just that I'm aware of what goes into writing and maintaining one.

[Trentemoller]

I agree in that people shouldn't use it for free storm. However, I wouldn't advocate your play. It would make more sense to probe first, then brainstorm and put 2 cards back, seeing an extra card from the deal.
Probe is really only good for a free peek , the deck doesn't need to ramp up it's storm count as it has Ad Nauseam and Ill-Gotten Gains for that and I have doubts as to how useful a free peek really is.

I think he is talking about shenanigans with LED, which is a big reason to play with Gitaxian Probe. If you draw into your Ad Nauseam or sometimes even a wish with 2 LEDs you can brainstorm the business on top, play your ritual(s)/LED(s) and probe, saccing the LEDs in response to grab your Ad Nauseam or your Wish to cast it with mana from the LEDs. Yes, sometimes you can do this with 2 Brainstorms but this costs more blue mana which is very relevant. This is the most important function of the card but the information it gives is very relevant and if you are going for Goblins one more storm can certainly make the difference.

[Tammit67]

I think he is talking about shenanigans with LED, which is a big reason to play with Gitaxian Probe. If you draw into your Ad Nauseam or sometimes even a wish with 2 LEDs you can brainstorm the business on top, play your ritual(s)/LED(s) and probe, saccing the LEDs in response to grab your Ad Nauseam or your Wish to cast it with mana from the LEDs. Yes, sometimes you can do this with 2 Brainstorms but this costs more blue mana which is very relevant. This is the most important function of the card but the information it gives is very relevant and if you are going for Goblins one more storm can certainly make the difference.

I don't think up'ing the cantrips from 8 to 10 just for LED tricks is worth cutting our protection and initial mana sources post ad naus. When I'm cracking LED, I usually have enough mana, and I don't want to pay life if I can avoid it. Storm is never an issue, its making sure I draw those 2-3 extra cards off ad nausem that is really important.

[Trentemoller]

But you can use Ponder/Brainstorm + Gitaxian Probe + LED to pay for Ad Nauseam if you draw it naturally which is relevant (because you cannot pay for Ad Nauseam with LED unless you Infernal Tutor for it) and with some flips you can stop earlier with Ad Nauseam because you have 2 LEDs but only 1 Mox/Petal and a Brainstorm + Probe to pay for Wish so it can actually help. Storm is the least relevant but can and will be relevant around once a tournament.

The information it gives when you Probe them turn 1 can be very valuable. Knowing which deck you are facing, which and how many counters they have, how much time you have, if they have a discard spell, if they have a Stoneforge Mystic (relevant for Empty) all make your cantrips a lot better. I won two games in the tournament I played it in based on the information of probe. I won the die roll and I had a hand with a Ponder, a Silence and a Probe. I probed him and saw he could go off turn 1. I wrote down his hand, thought for 2 minutes, fake counted a couple of times and passed the turn with City open. I silenced him in response to the tutor and won the game 1-2 turns later. Being able to form a game plan based on what your opponent has in his hand instead of in his deck and possibly in his hand gives you quite the edge.

[j_rb]

Being able to form a game plan based on what your opponent has in his hand instead of in his deck and possibly in his hand gives you quite the edge.

Yep, and your example is perfect because if you didn't have probe you would probably spend a turn pondering or something then lose turn 1. Now if you know what every single opponent is playing then the peek is irrelevant, but still using it for other things is useful. The main thing is casting ad nauseam with LED. Of course you can do this easily with a tutor or wish but if you happen to have a nauseam stuck in your hand with 1 cantrip you can't cast it off of LED, and this is very relevant as the situation will come up after many months of playing this deck. If this situation hasn't come up give it time and it will, and if it doesn't then don't play it. I'm not saying playing it is the best, but it can get you out of certain sticky situations you can find yourself in while playing this deck.

[Tammit67]

Between 4 rite, 4 rits, 4 lotus petals, 4 chrome mox and the lands, casting ad naus isn't hard. Hell, we recently increased the count to 2 BECAUSE its so awesome to draw. I can do the LED tricks anyway.

I don;t know how correct first turn ponder is against an unknown opponent. Why wouldnt you just hold onto it for another turn? Against the decks that can't kill you ASAP, you have the time to see an extra card, and against the decks that do you get protection.

Can't you tell the deck you are facing by the time they make a second land drop? Do they run daze? Snare? Doesn't matter, silence resolved.

[j_rb]

Between 4 rite, 4 rits, 4 lotus petals, 4 chrome mox and the lands, casting ad naus isn't hard. Hell, we recently increased the count to 2 BECAUSE its so awesome to draw. I can do the LED tricks anyway.
I mean, I completely agree and that's why I was never using probe forever just testing it a little bit, but I can see why someone would want to run it.

I was also just giving reasons why you can use probe.

I mainly cut it when I came across the situation of t1 killing someone playing stupid gw deck and probed into burning wish with no rite of flame or chrome mox. Was horrible as TES never loses to that deck.



I don;t know how correct first turn ponder is against an unknown opponent. Why wouldnt you just hold onto it for another turn? Against the decks that can't kill you ASAP, you have the time to see an extra card, and against the decks that do you get protection.
I could justify pondering T1 if you know you are going to just win t2 if you hit anything other than land or draw.

The worse thing that can happen passing is they t2 gaddock teeg and it slows you down, but it's not a problem usually.

Also, this would be correct if you had brainstorm in your hand. I was just using ponder as an example, keyword EXAMPLE here.



Can't you tell the deck you are facing by the time they make a second land drop? Do they run daze? Snare? Doesn't matter, silence resolved.

I can usually tell what I'm playing by the first land drop and play to that.

And yes chant > everything these are all things I know, I was just justifying the reasons you can play probe and giving random a random example of what they can do, and to be honest I don't need someone telling me stuff I already know, I was just throwing it out there for everyone who reads this and is unfamiliar with the deck that probe can be run in it with success.

[Damoxx]

SCGDC Top8 Vid #1 (http://blip.tv/scglive/scgdc-lgc-top-8-ali-aintrazi-vs-robin-meeker-cummings-1-5911910)
SCGDC Top8 Vid #2 (http://blip.tv/scglive/scgdc-lgc-top-8-ali-aintrazi-vs-robin-meeker-cummings-2-5912074)

[Oiolosse]

In the first video at ~11:40 he Infernal Tutors for an LED by tapping a Chrome Mox and a Polluted Delta. Ali had his ass from the get go.

[thefringthing]

In the first video at ~11:40 he Infernal Tutors for an LED by tapping a Chrome Mox and a Polluted Delta. Ali had his ass from the get go.There's an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth on the battlefield.

[Oiolosse]

There's an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth on the battlefield.

doh, thanksapal.

[markitus]

Does Grapeshot have other uses apart from 'grapeshooting' someone for ~50? Is it also used to combat Meddling Mage on Tendrils of Agony or similar strategies? Could Pyroclasm be a better SB option?

Thanks!

[dillonkbase]

Does Grapeshot have other uses apart from 'grapeshooting' someone for ~50? Is is also used to combat Meddling Mage on Tendrils of Agony or similar strategies? Could Pyroclasm be a better SB option?

Thanks!

Well besides grapeshooting for 50 and killing meddling mages, it kills gaddock tegg, cannonist, aven mindcensor.... pyroclasm and grapshoot bith have the same challenge, being they create red damage, which can be prevented by mother of runes. Although I wouldn't suggest it over a grapeshot, I prefer virtue's ruin over pyroclasm.

[Dark Ritual]

There have been times where you don't tendrils the opponent for lethal and next turn or on the same turn you wish for grapeshot and grapeshot them for lethal (example you grapeshot them for 6 damage then tendrils them for 14 damage.) If you don't include it in the sideboard you're doing it wrong.

Pyroclasm is meh against mom. I'd suggest virtue's ruin instead if you're that worried, but the best plan against maverick is to either EtW quickly before they land a hatebear, typically turn 1 or just kill them the usual way as quickly as possible i.e. mull into a fast hand that isn't clogged up with cantrips unless those cantrips are brainstorms.

[aljiichiban]

Just Sharing:

Went 3-1 in a local tourney finishing first in swiss..

vs dredge 2-0

g1: Went to T2 IGG>Tendrils.
G2: Draw go for a few turns. Pyroblasted his breakthrough. Then Ad Naus on my turn to lethal Tendrils.

vs Nic Fit 2-1
g1: T1 - Tendrils for 22.
g2: He continuously disrupted my hand.
g3: I was able to initially get rid of his inquisition and vindicate. After draw go for a few turns he managed to get a bob, Pridemage and teeg in play. Then I pondered to a pyroclasm to sweep them. After a mini tendrils and another draw go for a few turns, I was down to 5 and he was down to 8. Facing lethal damage from KOTR, I top decked a Burning wish then went to diminishing returns to tendrils for 16

vs UW ctrl 2-1
g1: I tried to go for ETW through Burning wish with a wished thoughtseize as protection. He had Mana Leak and FOW.
g2: I started with duress and saw bs, mana leak and 2 Fows. Then I bluffed into looking for a mana source by showing infernal which worked. So I showed my duress. 2 duress, a pyroblast and a drawn Orim's were enough to clear the way for Ad Naus
g3: He was able to play leyline of sanctity after he pierced my duress. I brainstormed into Infernal, Dark rit and Ad Naus.
My turn I decided to do this: Petal, Rite, LED, LED, Ponder (on Stack then crack the 2 LEDs), Ad Nauseam - resolves. I flipped the cards then went down to 1. I started with Silence which resolves as well. Then bounced his leyline which allowed me to go for lethal tendrils.


Vs Berserk Stompy.(IL – Intentional Loss)
I decided to give my teammate the win so that there will be a chance for the three of us to go to top 4.


Top 4.
Vs UW again(my teammate actually)
I gave him the game because he doesn’t have a BYE yet for the next major tourney(I already have one). We decided to still play just to know what might have happened.

G1: I duressed his FOW. He wasted my only land and got a Crucible Online.
G2: I managed to resolve and Ad Naus. I went for Grapeshot for 20 through past in Flames. He responded with a swords on mishra which put him down to 1. I tried to flashback my grapeshot but MADE A MISTAKE OF NOT UNDERSTANDING THE ERRATA OF PIF. Anyway, I was able to wish for a Tendrils to finish him off.
G3: I duressed something relevant from him then pyroblasted his BS. I’m not sure if I made the right move. He managed to land a Counterbalance but with no sensei in play. I decided to go off on my turn. I played mox and petal where he triggers SB and revealed a Clique. Thoughtseize, rite of flame, LED, LED, Burnish wish to ETW for 16. I was happy because I was able to display my NM Mon’s Goblin Raiders tokens and they went the distance. Whoohoo!!

Well, my teammate went on to the semis and won the BYE for the next major tourney

Flops:

Not Knowing the Errata of PIF

Wins:
Topdeck BW to Diminishing to goodness.
My NM Mon’s Goblin Raiders Tokens in display
The “good luck” habit still works for me. Thanks Bryant for sharing this in one of your articles.

[thefringthing]

Past in Flames doesn't have any errata. What you mean is that you just didn't know how the card works.

[aljiichiban]

Past in Flames doesn't have any errata. What you mean is that you just didn't know how the card works.

Yeah, I mean that. Not knowing how the card fully works. Thanks.

[thefringthing]

It is a little weird keeping track of what has flashback and what doesn't.

In your second round, was the Pyroclasm you boarded in a one-of wish target? That seems odd.

[aljiichiban]

It is a little weird keeping track of what has flashback and what doesn't.

In your second round, was the Pyroclasm you boarded in a one-of wish target? That seems odd.

Yes, I boarded 2 echoing and 1 pyroclasm(replaced wipe away). I still had 1 silent departure in SB as a wish target so I didn't find boarding in pyroclasm a problem.

[thefringthing]

Lost a GPT (+Mox) win-and-in to an opponent who already had three byes in extra turns of game three to a top-decked Force. Blaaaaarghh.\

To add something slightly constructive to this post, I drew with Nic Fit, beat a Gw homebrew, beat No-Force Bant, beat Stoneblade, lost to RUG Delver, and then lost the aforementioed match to Stoneblade.

[Bryant Cook]

Won the NELC at Jupiter games today. Four feature matches of me to come!

Also, expect a report.

[Basaka]

Congratulations on the finish.

Missed the monthly legacy at my LGS today due to work, apparently Maverick took it down. Wish I played, lol.

[Oiolosse]

Congrats on the finish. I have almost completed the deck. Just 3 LEDs, a Volcanic Island and a Polluted Delta to finish it up. It encourages me to see top finishes. Thanks.

[jandax]

I built Bryant's list and took it to a local today. It was great fun, we split the top 4. First time playing the deck against anyone live, not a bad finish.

Nothing really spectacular happened, except for comboing off through a Thorn of Amethyst and Phyrexian Revoker (against my buddy playing Imperial Painter). It seems to be a good time to play Storm combo.

[gamer4life]

Won the NELC at Jupiter games today. Four feature matches of me to come!

Also, expect a report.

When should we be expecting it?

[Neuad]

Played TES in the legacy challenge at Starcity Cinci. Final round vs Counterbalance.

5 lands in play, played Chrome Mox. Resolved. Said 'with imprint trigger on the stack, crack fetch.'. Ad Naus, he brainstorms in response and Ad Naus resolves. Finished Resolving Ad naus at 4, not willing to risk flipping. Imprinted a blue card. Cast Lotus Petal. He decided not to flip. Pondered. He didn't flip. This tell's me there is a 2 on top. Ponder showed me the tendrils. Petal LED LED, brainstorm cracking LED's into Tendrils. Tendrils for 10 Storm.

Chrome Mox trick worked.

[cuthbertthecat]

Played TES in the legacy challenge at Starcity Cinci. Final round vs Counterbalance.

5 lands in play, played Chrome Mox. Resolved. Said 'with imprint trigger on the stack, crack fetch.'. Ad Naus, he brainstorms in response and Ad Naus resolves. Finished Resolving Ad naus at 4, not willing to risk flipping. Imprinted a blue card. Cast Lotus Petal. He decided not to flip. Pondered. He didn't flip. This tell's me there is a 2 on top. Ponder showed me the tendrils. Petal LED LED, brainstorm cracking LED's into Tendrils. Tendrils for 10 Storm.

Chrome Mox trick worked.

Is there any reason here to not just cast the chrome mox after ad nauseam resolves? If he had the force/CB reveal for ad nauseam, you'd be out a chrome mox.

[Neuad]

Is there any reason here to not just cast the chrome mox after ad nauseam resolves? If he had the force/CB reveal for ad nauseam, you'd be out a chrome mox.

I was testing what he had on top. He had 1 mana open, no top, and a counterbalance.

Oh also, my hand was suited to go off on a later turn if I drew protection, or drew out a counterspell. I had LED's and an Infernal in my hand, with a 2nd Ad naus in the deck.

[cuthbertthecat]

I was testing what he had on top. He had 1 mana open, no top, and a counterbalance.

Oh also, my hand was suited to go off on a later turn if I drew protection, or drew out a counterspell. I had LED's and an Infernal in my hand, with a 2nd Ad naus in the deck.

Makes sense, I forgot that you get priority back after their counterbalance trigger even if they don't resolve it.

[gamer4life]

Im 1/0 at my local event so far. There is a Counterballence player here that im not prepaird for. Any advice wood be great.

[gamer4life]

I just made a sweet Grapeshot play. He had a Snapcaster and a V cliqe in play,i whent Burning wish for Grapeshot kill them both. It was awesome :)

[OurSerratedDust]

Im 1/0 at my local event so far. There is a Counterballence player here that im not prepaird for. Any advice wood be great.

Save your REB's for his counterbalance, or duress it out of his hand.

[Bryant Cook]

Article/Report will be up today at some point. There's been a delay, but your wait is almost over!

[Damoxx]

Article/Report will be up today at some point. There's been a delay, but your wait is almost over!

The feature match video have helped take the edge off.

[Bryant Cook]

Report (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23219-Cook%92s-Kitchen-%96-Storming-into-Jupiter-pt.-IV-%28NELC-%96-02-11-12%29-First-Place&p=619923#post619923)

This is what a first place report looks like, ya nerds.

[Koby]

Report (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23219-Cook%92s-Kitchen-%96-Storming-into-Jupiter-pt.-IV-%28NELC-%96-02-11-12%29-First-Place&p=619923#post619923)

This is what a first place report looks like, ya nerds.

It looks like a Link to a Link to a Report?

[Bryant Cook]

It looks like a Link to a Link to a Report?

Learn to click twice.

[Koby]

Learn to put in a direct link.

Congrats btw! (only at Round 2 post-re-pair)

[Bryant Cook]

Learn to put in a direct link.

Congrats btw! (only at Round 2 post-re-pair)

No. Not that it's any of your business but I like to track the amount of traffic to my articles by the number of views. Forcing the link from the TES thread to the report thread does that. If you dislike this, tough.

Thank you.

[ScatmanX]

It looks like a Link to a Link to a Report?
Linkception!

Nice job, as always.

[thefringthing]

Looks like the Pyroblasts worked out okay. I know Ari has been advocating additional Empty the Warrens copies in those slots.

[Bryant Cook]

I know it's still a couple of weeks away, but is anyone else here playing T.E.S. at Grand Prix Indy?

/excited

[metalhead]

I know it's still a couple of weeks away, but is anyone else here playing T.E.S. at Grand Prix Indy?

/excited

If by some awesome twist of fate I cane get the time off and find a ride its what i would play. :( 6 day work weeks suck!!

[AriLax]

I know it's still a couple of weeks away, but is anyone else here playing T.E.S. at Grand Prix Indy?

/excited

50% sure I am. 25% I'm playing Jace plus Knight of the Reliquary, 25% I'm going off the deep end.

[Fade]

If I end up going it's fifty percent that I am playing this deck or g/w maverick

[KevinTrudeau]

I know it's still a couple of weeks away, but is anyone else here playing T.E.S. at Grand Prix Indy?

/excited

I'm about 60% certain I can make it down to Indy, and if I can't get the right feel for a Doomsday list by that time, I will definitely be playing TES.

[thefringthing]

I know it's still a couple of weeks away, but is anyone else here playing T.E.S. at Grand Prix Indy?Me.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

I know it's still a couple of weeks away, but is anyone else here playing T.E.S. at Grand Prix Indy?

/excited

I'm playing foil TES at the GP.

[emidln]

I know it's still a couple of weeks away, but is anyone else here playing T.E.S. at Grand Prix Indy?

/excited

Considering it. Need to acquire a fourth Chrome Mox, but that shouldn't be an issue.