PuRple-Izzet-Steam-Machine (PRISM)

[Mono_Thematic]

The following deck seems so obvious to me, yet I've never heard of anyone playing it. So I'm posting it not just to get advise on how to improve it, but also to find out why it isn't viable.
Without further ado,

Burn:
4 pyroclasm
4 magma jet
4 lightning bolt
4 fire//(ice)
2 barbarian ring (pyrite spellbomb)
Control:
4 (fire)//ice
4 counterspell
4 force of will
? engineered explosives
Card Advantage:
2 academy ruins
3 isochron scepter
3 vedalken shackles
3 sensei's diving top
4 counterbalance
4 ancestral visions
Land:
4 volcanic island
4 scalding tairn
6 island
2 mountain

SB:
Tormond's Crypt
Relic of Progenitus
Engineered Explosives
Mindbreak Trap
Spell Snare
more burn

Isochron + Burn/Counterspell = sick
Counterbalance + SDT/Magma Jet + low mana curve = sick
Burn + Ancestral Visions = sick

I just don't see why this wouldn't work / isn't being played. I really wanna build it, but I wanna know it's failings before hand.
Danke,
-Mono

[Mesercus]

i suggest 4 brainstorm, some fetch and 2-3 bounce spell like echoing truth they are strong with scepter.
iI would put piroclasm in the SB.
18/19 lands are ok with more cantrips
4 brainstorm
4 ancestral vision
3/4 top
maybe two copies of thirst for knowledge cause you use many artifacts and you run two academys

[Elfrago]

I just don't see why this wouldn't work / isn't being played. I really wanna build it, but I wanna know it's failings before hand.
Danke,
-Mono

I'll tell you why it doesn't work:
1) Add more lands, a control deck with 20 lands is an utopia.
2) In a format where the most played creature has usually a toghtness of 5 or more burn is a terrible choice for removal ( tempo decks aside).
3) Krosan Grip > Isochron scepter.

[DragoFireheart]

I just don't see why this wouldn't work / isn't being played. I really wanna build it, but I wanna know it's failings before hand.
Danke,
-Mono


1. Burn is a terrible way to deal with Tarmogoyf, since his toughness is almost always 4+.

2. Krosan Grip takes a crap on scepter.

3. Pithing Needle gets horny looking at this deck.

4. A single Threshold Nimble Mongoose is liable to bend this deck over.

[4eak]

Honestly, you replaced awesome cards with cards that aren't as good. Tempo Thresh and CB/Top Thresh abuse Tarmogoyf and your deck doesn't. Build a deck with Tarmogoyf. Start with this shell:


Creatures: 8-10
4x Tarmogoyf
4-6x Other creatures to make your deck "feel different" from all the other U/G Goyf-control decks

Permission: 8-12
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
0-4x Spell Snare ("of course" this is metagame-dependant; i.e. did your opponent stumble upon the secret of Goyf and use it in his/her/its [with some people you can never tell which pronoun fits best] deck, or will you be playing against 2nd classes citizens of magic (Merfolk, etc.)?)

CB Lock: 7-8
4x CB
3-4x Top

Cantrips which greatly increase your odds of playing the card Tarmogoyf: 6-8
4x Brainstorm
2-4x Ponder

Your deck is so special, you've splashed for X; really, we all know the deck will win in virtue of Tarmogoyf + Cantrips to find Tarmogoyf + Permission to force into play your ChuckGoyfNorris: 4
4x Tertiary Color 1cc Control spell (Bolt/StP/Seize)

$250+ Landbase: 17-23 ("so much difference" between NLU and Thresh)
3-4x Tropical Island
4-6x Duals split between Green+Tertiary Color and Blue+Tertiary Color
3-4x Misty Rainforest
4-6x Fetches split between Green+Tertiary Color and Blue+Tertiary Color
1x Island
1x Forest
1x Basic of Tertiary Color

That should leave you with a 50-65 card deck (adjust to "personalize it" at your whim) with at least 50/50 odds against the format (even decks metagamed against it).

I think you want more control than Tempo offers (you aren't running Stifle/Waste package), so I'd just choose a color other than red to be your 3rd. White seems good. If you stay with Red, then add Stifle+Waste.

Personally, I think your original deck is interesting, but it has no merit in Legacy. Sorry about that.




peace,
4eak

[Digital Devil]

P.R.I.S.M.

Please
Remove
Isochron
Scepter
Man

That's the way I see it. Overall, it's not a terrible idea. Just swap Pyroclasm for Firespout, add 1-2 Electrolyze, and an efficient wincon (Mishra's Factory comes to mind). That manabase needs a twist, too.

[Mono_Thematic]

Right then, suggestions (other than turning it into a pre-existing archtype [but thanks anyway 4eak])?
I assume Spell Snare/Threads of Disloyalty for goyf control. Or would bounce be better, since it sorts out Drednaughts? Or would EE be best since it solves goyf, naughts, and pithing needle (unless they needle the EE)?
Mishra's sounds good as well (cut the Barbarian Rings?)

Question: is the Scepter really that bad? If it gets hit by K-Grip then I can return it with Academy Ruins. Plus that means they have less K-Grips to deal w/ CB + shackles + SDT (+EE).

I have much to ponder.

p.s.-that was pretty clever Digital Devil.

[4eak]

Are you actually looking for real answers to these concerns?


I just don't see why this wouldn't work / isn't being played. I really wanna build it, but I wanna know it's failings before hand

and


So I'm posting it not just to get advise on how to improve it, but also to find out why it isn't viable.

Or were these just hypothetical questions/concerns?

I am dead serious. You're deck isn't viable because it isn't made in the shell I presented. I can't think of a metagame where I prefer your deck to Thresh; Goyf-control literally outclasses your deck across the board. Viability implies that you at least have some metagame where your deck is going to be at least somewhere on top of heap when compared to the alternatives. It will take more than Burn against well-played aggro-decks, and you'll eventually see that Goyf is a necessity.

As your deck evolves, you'll eventually concede to putting in Goyf as a blocker/finisher/anti-goyf-tech, and you'll realize that Counterspell just costs too much, Scepter is too fragile (often win-more as well), your mana-base just doesn't cut it without a proper cantrip-setup, you'll add Brainstorm and Ponder for consistency (also to see your CBLock and Goyf as often and early as possible), and then you'll eventually see that red is poor removal for your control deck and so you'll switch to another color.

As you improve your deck, the more it will become Thresh. Pretty simple. I hate the truth about this matter, but that is where Legacy is stuck.




peace,
4eak

[Hanni]

Didn't really read everyone elses replies, so I may be repeating some points. Anyway,

The reason this deck isn't viable is because aggro/counter is stronger than burn/counter. I mean, UGr Threshold is basically the same strategy, counter and quick damage, except it has lasting strength. Creatures have the potential to do more damage per mana investment than burn. Unless you run nothing but burn (normal Burn deck), you will gas yourself out before winning the game.

If you do want to continue to pursue this strategy, I would recommend a few changes.

First of all, I'd run Standstill over Ancestral Visions. Run 4 Mishra's Factory and 4 Standstill. I'd also recommend running Wasteland and Stifle, too.

Zendikar makes this approach a little more viable with Pyromancer Acension. Between that and Isochron Scepter, you'll have more gas. Those both should be 4-of's.

A light white splash would probably be in your best interest, because of Swords to Plowshares and Orim's Chant, but sticking to straight U/R is fine too.

I'd cut Pyroclasm from the maindeck. It isn't giving you a clock and it can't be stuck on a Scepter.

You also need to run a slightly higher burn count. Right now your clock looks horrible.

Good luck.

EDIT: Even though I really don't see this deck going anywhere, I've decided to post a list of the direction I'd probably take with this deck anyway.

Spells (40)
4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Fire//Ice
4 Lightning Helix
4 Pyromancer's Acension
4 Isochron Scepter

That's a rough base. Something along those lines, give or take. The deck depends on Pyro/Iso to actually win the game, because 16 burn spells (8 doing only 2 damage) isn't going to be enough to win alone. This shell is somewhat against what I previously suggested, but it's really the only way I see the deck being able to remotely compete. Every spell can be imprinted on Scepter, and every spell is an instant or sorcery (and a 4-of) to make Pyromancer as effective as possible.

Factory/Standstill/Wasteland/Stifle seems impossible to pull off without negatively effecting the overall strategy/synergy of the rest of the deck.

The white splash seems almost mandatory, because you have no other good 2cc or less instant burn spells besides Lightning Helix, and Lightning Helix on a stick is a great win condition and form of removal against aggro. Postboard, the deck has options of Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Orim's Chant, and Silence. Wrath of God and Engineered Explosives could be necessary evils against some matchups, and I'm sure that some Disenchants could be useful as well.

Again, good luck in your effots, Mono thematic.

[Digital Devil]

Right then, suggestions (other than turning it into a pre-existing archtype [but thanks anyway 4eak])?
I assume Spell Snare/Threads of Disloyalty for goyf control. Or would bounce be better, since it sorts out Drednaughts? Or would EE be best since it solves goyf, naughts, and pithing needle (unless they needle the EE)?
Mishra's sounds good as well (cut the Barbarian Rings?)

Question: is the Scepter really that bad? If it gets hit by K-Grip then I can return it with Academy Ruins. Plus that means they have less K-Grips to deal w/ CB + shackles + SDT (+EE).

I have much to ponder.
You can also take the NoGoyf route. Something like:


5x Island
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Volcs
3x Mishra's Factory/Mutavault
1x Polluted Delta
1x Flooded Strand
1x Mountain
1x Academy Ruins


4x Spellstutter Sprite
2x Trinket Mage
2x Ninja of the Deep Hours
2x Cloud of Faeries
2x Sower of Temptation


4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Fire/Ice
3x Lightning Bolt
3x Standstill
3x Counterbalance
3x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Daze
1x Engineered Explosives
1x <personal tech> (I'd sooner put Electrolyze to hit :3: cmc with Counterbalance, or 1 Needle, or 1 Isochron Scepter, since you like it)

Obviously the list was made in a few seconds, so it's not accurate and not well-balanced, mainly because I posted a list without testing it. It's 61 cards, and I wanted to fit in some Stifle/Wasteland to strenghten the tempo-aspect, but, heck, it's a totally different strategy. Shame on my terrible deckbuilding skill.

p.s.-that was pretty clever Digital Devil.
It's a miracle something clever exits from my head =)

[Mono_Thematic]

@Digital Devil: I think if I'm going to go faeries, I'm gonna try to bust open Wee Dragonauts. This way I can keep my original shell, but have a more efficient kill-con than burn alone. Other than Wee Dragonauts, Vendilion Clique is an auto-include, and Cloud of Faeries + Spellstutter Sprite make for nice synergy w/ equipment.
But at this point I have to wonder if a R/U shelled faerie deck provides anything that the original faeries archtype can't already do (or do better)? Honestly, I don't know, but Wee Dragonauts is an awesome card and I want to break it.
I'll post-up a decklist of what I'm thinking as a starter soon. Nothing against your list Digital Devil, I just want to try to push the environment with more archtypes instead of tweeking pre-existing ones.
-mono

[MoogleConspiracy]

So, this is looking pretty similar to UR Landstill of a long time ago. After Mana Drain was banned, UR Landstill evolved into a more counter-burn type strategy and using cantrips and free counters. They used 11-12 burn spells (Fire/Ice, L. Bolt, Electrolyze), Repeals, EE, Stifle/Wasteland.

Another consideration is Burning Wish, opening up a toolbox of wins, creature control, and draw power. Either way I still suggest using Counterbalance/Top with what you're doing. Though when you're playing Stifle, it makes you wonder why you wouldn't play dreadnought.

Another thing to ponder about this subject is what is the best UR deck to play in general? Or are you required to splash a color like white. White would give you that removal to deal with Goyf that burn doesn't accomplish.

[Vacrix]

i used to play something like this before all the creature toughness's shot up (zoo).

burn:
4 magma jet
4 electrolyze
4 fire//ice
4 lightning bolt

countermagic:
4 force
2 stifle
2 counterspell
4 daze
4 remand
4 brainstorm

win/con:
1 morphling
3 isochron scepter

land:
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
4 volcanic island
3 island
1 mountain
4 mishra's factory

sb:
4 price of progress
2 pyroclasm
2 chalice of the void
4 tormod's crypt
2 echoing truth
1 reins of power

i cant quite remember the board. this was a while back. it raped aggro pretty hard. had a decent combo matchup, and a meh control matchup. sometimes i switched out daze/remand for standstill.

mystical tutor might have fit in pretty well. i didnt have any at the time.

this was before counterbalance got popular in the days of isochron.dec. it probably doesnt work as well in the current meta but its some food for the thought.

[Rico Suave]

The real problem is that you are running 18 cards (burn) as your win condition, when you could be running something as simple as 2 Morphling and use the other 16 slots for permission, draw, and removal.