€600 decks failing vs casuals [Archive]

Ectoplasm

10-10-2009, 05:59 PM

I'd like to tell you guys a story.

When I was still a little boy I had a dream, a dream of one day having my own UWb Landstill deck to play. So I started selling off some random cards, buying the staples (fows, duallands, pretty much everything) and putting them in a tradebinder. During a period of a couple of months I watched this binder getting fuller and fuller, taking shape, after a while it started looking like a real deck and finally, after months of scrounging up my (small) wage, trading, buying, selling and trading some more I was ready to sleeve up my new deck.

I want you guys to know that in the gamesshop I usually play at, most of the crowd consists of very casual players, and about 3 a bit more hardcore Legacy players, myself included. Back in these days all I played was casual multiplayer even though I had a Legacy RGB goblins deck which I took to a tourney every now and again, and occasionally used to stomp someone 1v1 just for kicks. This usually aggrevated the victim because, let's be honest, it's not fun to get stomped by a deck that's clearly superior. So I mostly stuck to playing fundecks in 6-player free for alls and the occasional Legacy game against some of the guys who were up for it.

So let's get back to the deck I'm building. I bought a pack of fresh sleeves, sleeved up my new deck (I swear, sleeving up new cards and getting ready to play them is the best part of MTG hands down) and I was watching the multiplayer FFA where everyone in the shop was currently occupied and I waited for the first person to die, after which I could challenge him to a game and stomp him with my new deck.
The victim came soon, and it was a kid of about 15 years old who only recently decided to pick up MTG. We shuffled up, I drew my 7, mulled to 6, mulled to 5, mulled to 4 and kept a hand with a single land.

Long story short, I stuck on 1 land all game long and got my face ripped by a bunch of bant commons and uncommons, including that 2/4 flying exalted and rhox bodyguard.

I quickly said 'so we're doing best of 3 right?' and won the next two games but I still carry a little bit of the shame of that game with me to this day.

Anyone with similar experiences?

umbowta

10-10-2009, 08:09 PM

Anyone with similar experiences?I had a dream when I was just a boy too. Now I'm married and don't even dream about getting it anymore.

Anyhow, I frustrate casual players to no end by annoying them into oblivion with my super duper, ultra casual, UR Tim deck. It's tuned enough to win but contains enough jank so that no one complains. It's hard to walk that fine line but worth it if you want to keep your casual MtG playing friends.

Dan Turner

10-10-2009, 08:22 PM

I played solidarity once in a group game I had forgot all my other decks at home LOL. I just sat back and ended up winning by playing politics instead of magic. I had no threats and would show my hand on "accident" so hat everyone saw that there was no way i was a threat until I had enough to go and actually deck the other 3 players all in the same turn. Since then anytime I drop an island in a group game they all make me switch decks or offer to give me a deck just so I don't play it.

I have played my Zoo deck and been beaten by a type 2 deck.

I have won a legacy tournament back during ravnica block with a type 2 deck called Project X, or as we called it the most expensive mana base in Type 2 (I think I actually have 16 rav-duals in it) (I still have the whole deck in my casual deck box I would love to figure a way to port this to legacy and make it a winning deck but I think it is just to slow and too easy to disrupt).

Otter

10-10-2009, 09:00 PM

It's funniest when the casual decks are dominating because of how bad their cards are. For instance --

My G/B Deathcloud deck from Mir/8th/ChK losing to a kid with Nusissance Engine and a pair of Trinket Mages with Healer's Headdresses equipped. I couldn't punch Troll Ascetics through the 2/4 Trinket Mages, couldn't Barter or Cloud because of Nuissance Engine, and he countered my Kokushos.

A friend's Lrw/10th/ALA Rock build losing to ChK block foxes (yes, goddamn foxes) because Kitsune Riftwalker owns Chameleon Colossus and Nameless Inversion. Holy fail.

workingdude

10-10-2009, 10:15 PM

To the OP: okay you had a bad draw.

Yesterday, I saw a Countertop thresh lose to Mono-B Vampires in the first round of a Legacy tournament.

I only saw the third game, but it went like this.

thresh lands goyf on T3, due to a daze. Forces a Vampire Nighthawk. Goyf beats a couple of times. Vamp-player plays Ob Nixilis which wins the game.

Legacy decks are tuned to beat legacy decks. Sometimes they fail against casual.

Phoenix Ignition

10-10-2009, 10:43 PM

Legacy decks are tuned to beat legacy decks. Sometimes they fail against casual.

True.

I had a good, tuned rock deck and played at a tournament with a bunch of casuals.

Turns out Pernicious Deeds is horrible when people love playing around with dragons and 6+cc creatures. I lost to multiple Kokusho.deck

MMogg

10-10-2009, 11:47 PM

Anyhow, I frustrate casual players to no end by annoying them into oblivion with my super duper, ultra casual, UR Tim deck. It's tuned enough to win but contains enough jank so that no one complains. It's hard to walk that fine line but worth it if you want to keep your casual MtG playing friends.

Haha, for similar reasons I used to make a lot of what I called "scrub buster" decks that were well tuned enough to beat a bunch of shit big creatures, but it contained no cards that any scrub would call cheap, and in fact, they usually loved them. One example was a deck made around Wheel and Deal (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=42184), one of the worst friggin cards, which I used with Megrim and Underworld Dreams. No counters in the deck, just draw spells like Prosperity and mana acceleration.

The OP said nothing is better than sleeving up a new deck... no way, beating a scrub with a tuned scrub deck is so much more fun! :laugh:

AngryTroll

10-11-2009, 12:30 AM

I bought a pack of fresh sleeves, sleeved up my new deck (I swear, sleeving up new cards and getting ready to play them is the best part of MTG hands down)

I love this part. The first time I sleeve up a new deck (and even the first time I sleeve up an old deck in new sleeves) is a blast.

Legacy decks are tuned to beat legacy decks. Sometimes they fail against casual.

I have definitely lost with Thresh and Dreadstill to casual decks. Turns out Counterbalance and Daze aren't very good when your opponent plays a bunch of things that cost a million (Daze is solid, until they start dropping 6cc dudes with 7 or 8 lands in play). It's awkward when Tarmogoyf isn't the biggest dude on the board.

ClearSkies

10-11-2009, 12:49 AM

Even the best decks can lose to bad draws and bad starting hands. It is just part of the randomness of a card game.

Soldar

10-11-2009, 01:06 AM

I always feel terrible when someone wants to play, and I only have Legacy decks on me. Usually, I warn them that I'm playing a tuned Legacy deck that I win money with, and they urge me to play on. Someone's played a casual Esper deck and I end up Wishing for Shattering Spree so I can Spree Master of Etheriums and Borderposts, playing Aggro Loam. On the other hand, I once had a hand of 3x Wasteland and a Mox Diamond against a glut of basic lands, and could never cast any of my double color spells.

Usually, Legacy Aggro and combo decks will destroy casual decks, just simply from having an incredibly quick clock, and the majority of casual decks lacking the 'right' disruption. Right being what's effective in Legacy. But control decks are defined by the decks they're trying to beat, so this is where we get into the "Legacy Decks are built to beat Legacy Decks." I saw a Landstill deck unable to beat multiple Cruel Ultimatums once, and while he probably sat under Standstill too long, or didn't play aggressively enough, Ultimatum is just as good against Landstill as it is against other Standard control decks.

Pulp_Fiction

10-11-2009, 01:31 AM

Soldar

10-11-2009, 02:59 AM

I won't lie, one of my favorite things is when people bring these random ass standard and jank decks and ravage anything with counterbalance! This stupid enchantment that locks your opponent out of the game will lose horribly if your opponent play 4-6CC creatures. It is just a blast watching the Thresh player struggle to handle these awful creatures from standard!! In particular I remember awful RG beats murdering Thresh and Landstill and going undefeated into the top 8!

I think a month or so ago I was walking around scouting in a local tournament, and saw a Rumbling Slum in play.

Later, I played this guy in the top 8 of the tournament, but for some reason had completely put him on a different deck and I thought he was playing some variant on Storm combo. I asked him, "If I go Taiga, Kird Ape, do I lose this matchup?" He then played his own Taiga into Kird Ape, and unfortunately I didn't get to see his top end 4cc creatures in our match.

Waikiki

10-11-2009, 03:16 AM

I once went 5-1 into top 8 with my only loss being vs a mono green big dude.dec running colossos + green ball lightning and other sort of fatties together with some engine with a mana elf gaining a -1-1 counter to untap itself and some dude that removes counters to get +3+3. I had really no chance since my stifle and wastes do shit vs forest. my burn doesn't do shit vs those big thingies and my goyfs are actually smaller then most of his creatures thnx to he only playing land + creature.

Bigface

10-11-2009, 03:32 AM

Playing Ext Affinity in a small tournament (16 people), direct elimination rounds.

First round, I meet a red deck made of rubbish. The sad part is, he has 8 MD artifact-hate cards and THE ENTIRE SB made to crush Affinity.

Yeah, that sucked. A lot.

Skeggi

10-11-2009, 03:59 AM

I just completed slightly-pimped Faerie Stompy when, the most scrubbiest of scrubs insisted of playing a game against me. Since I only own about 7 Legacy decks and no scrub decks, I decided to play with my new toy. He had this M10 deck with 20 lands and 40 green creatures. While I was taking some extra risks, using Ancient Tomb over and over again, I didn't see

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/m10/167.jpg

coming, and along with a 4/5 Forest he could kill me that same turn.

Ah well, shit happens :cool:

Elfrago

10-11-2009, 05:12 AM

A friend of mine was once playing his UGb Thresh vs a kid in a small tournamen organized by the store.
First, his creature were stopped by several Drudge Skeletons, then he slowly died to his own Dark Confidant.

Digital Devil

10-11-2009, 06:58 AM

I lost against a kid playing a mono :u: deck with BeB maindeck. I was playing Dragon Stompy. I had a really broken start:

Tomb, Mox (imprinting SSG), Seething Song, Seething Song, I play Trinisphere, he FoWs (!), I have 4 mana left and I play Rakdos Pit Dragon. I pass the turn. He plays Island, BEB, go. Who the fuck plays Blasts maindeck? It wasn't even a Painter deck!!! I had terrible draws, and I lost that game. Luckily I won the match 2-1, struggling against 8 blasts: after that I asked the kid to show me his deck. He had only a singleton Force of Will. And his sideboard was something like 4x Hydroblast, 4x Tormod, 4x Energy Flux and 3x Declaration of Naught. Shame on me for losing against him. I really didn't expect FoW, and I also didn't expect maindeck blasts. I asked him why he was packing BEBs maindeck, he said "My brother plays Burn". And of course his brother was playing REBs maindeck. LoL.

clavio

10-11-2009, 12:11 PM

I feel like Mono Blue control does this alot. I once lost 2-1 to a mono green snake deck which was probably kamigawa block legal. He resolved a spell that let him search for a legendary creature. I thought he was going to get something really powerful. But really he just got some shitty legendary snake.

Btw I just lost the game.

Raider Bob

10-11-2009, 12:39 PM

I once played against a guy who thought he was all that with a bunch of expensive cards. I had just bought some boosted and had some common and uncommon cards in it I tore him up game one then he was like want to do best 2 out of three and I was like sure if it will make you feel better. He beat me game 2 and game 3 and walked away like he was the shit.

Bryant Cook

10-11-2009, 12:43 PM

terrible story

Poor you. Are you alright?

Get over it dude. Shit happens.

Ectoplasm

10-11-2009, 01:12 PM

Poor you. Are you alright?

Get over it dude. Shit happens.

I hoped for some funny stories, like drudge skeletons blocking goyfs while a bob slowly grinds people's lifetotal down and so far this thread has been delivering, apart from some annoying offtopic posts.

Kuma

10-11-2009, 04:17 PM

Okay, I've got one. This just happened on Friday.

I'm playing my Bant Countertop deck "NaturalBalance" that I top-eighted with in the Legacy Championships and have rode to a 1900+ Eternal rating. My opponent is playing mono black Zombies. (I won't even call it Death Baron's Panty Raid because that deck is way, way beter than what I faced.)

I remember this kid from a few months ago. Then, he was playing a crappy mono-green big creatures deck. I look at my opening seven of Progenitus, four lands, Tarmogoyf and Natural Order and figure I've got him good since the hand actually plays magic.

He plays turn one Zombie Cannibal, turn two Shepherd of Rot, turn three Death Baron, turn four Shepherd of Rot and kicks my ass.

Having learned my lesson, I keep a much more solid hand game two. I establish CounterTop, StP his Death Baron, and manage to gum up the ground enough to win with a Progenitus.

Game three he's got a Shepher of Rot and a Death Baron that he's whittling away my life points with. I have a Counterbalance with no Top and a couple of Noble Hierarchs. Finally I find a Top which lets me get a Swords to Plowshares to remove his Death Baron. Things are looking up until he resolves a Grave Defiler (Zombie Ringleader). He flipped...

Undead Warchief, Korlash, Lord of the Undead, and the 4B 3/3 Deathtouch zombie that lets you discard a card for protection from white and green.

I cast a desperate Brainstorm a turn or two later and find a much needed Natural Order and Tarmogoyf. But it's too little to late. His board consists of two Undead Warchiefs and two Lord of the Undead making his side 7/5s. I'm at seven life with only three blockers.

Oh well, shit happens. Decks with weird mana curves tend to do well against Counterbalance. The more of a metagame deck you're playing, the more likely you're going to fail against casual players.

GGoober

10-12-2009, 05:26 AM

I actually played a GW deck today and almost lost to it with 4c Landstill. Seriously, all he ran was:

River Boa
Llanowar Elves
1/1 with Banding Wolf
1/1 with Banding Soldiers
1/1 Pegasus with Banding
1/2 for 3 mana that pumps green creatures +1+1 if it's untapped
Killer Bees.

I lost game 1, beat him game 2, almost lost game 3.

Game 3 I almost lost because I had no fucking clue what Banding did. OMG. First game, it was just beats with 1/1s, and me not drawing mass removal.

I was so depressed that I wanted to quit Legacy. And Landstill is my favorite deck, and 4cLandstill with Deeds? And I still lost 1 game. WTF.

Finn

10-12-2009, 10:19 AM

I have had my share of these experiences. Back before my local Legacy meta crashed, a few guys from the t2 crowd agreed to play. They had t2 decks of course, and one of them cleaned up with whatever one would call the t2 blue-based control deck of the moment. He and his buddies paraded about the place afterward. It was pretty interesting watching Threshold crumble to a Leyline of the Void in games 2 and 3 of the finals though.

Also, one of my fondest memories was on the other side of this. Torment had come out that week and I was experimenting with GRU Madness cards. I quickly came to the same conclusion many people were about to. They were brrrrroken. I entered an Extended tournament with my not yet t2 legal deck and beat 7 opponents without losing a game. Good times.

These occasions make the game fun imo.

umbowta

10-12-2009, 02:39 PM

You know what? Come to think of it, I was that scrub one time at a Vintage tournament. I stopped by the local game shop, Pandemonium, and there were 19 players getting ready to start an event. I figured, what the heck, it'll be fun, so I go out to my car and get an old Legacy deck called Throbbing Pink Weenie (White creatures with pro red and a bunch of red sweepers and black splash for board options against San Diego Zoo).

Round one I faced some guy playing Mountains win Again which was basically a bye for me. Round two I played against UGw Gro and won game one on the back of Soltari Priest and Starstorm. Game two I boarded in Perish, and the fat lady sang. Round three Brian Demars and I intentionally draw. Later, some big dude tinkered a Darksteel Colossus into play, which I promptly StP'ed and beat him down with an Exalted Angel. He said something like, "Wow. That deck is really aggressive", and then pummelled my face with Tendrils of Agony in G2 and G3.

NQN

10-13-2009, 03:19 AM

(I swear, sleeving up new cards and getting ready to play them is the best part of MTG hands down)

QFT!

(nameless one)

10-13-2009, 08:18 AM

I gotta tell you the story behind my casual deck.

I've always had this elf deck and was always a casual player. One time, I visited the local store and at that same time, they were running a Legacy tourney. I got bored so I started playtesting my deck around and to my surprise, my deck could beat Goblins, Burn (yes, it was wierd), Thresh, Madness decks. That day was the reason why I started playing Legacy.

Alecthar

10-13-2009, 04:09 PM

Whenever I used to spend summers back in my hometown, the nearest FNM was basically just a bunch of scrubs who played Yu-Gi-Oh a lot and had super-janky Magic decks. The store was actually a bookstore with a heavy gaming section, and the owner wasn't particularly MtG-savvy, so he basically let the kids run it themselves. They decided that they were going to play Type 1 for their FNMs, so that everyone could use all their cards. At that point in time Skullclamp had just been banned, Onslaught and Mirrodin were in Type 2, and I wasn't anything remotely near an avid Eternal player. In fact, that was probably before Legacy even had it's own banned list. I was, however, a fan of Type 2, and I had played a lot of Goblin Bidding. Extended had just given the world Gob-vantage, and had gotten Lackey banned because of it, so I built a Recruiter/Ringleader list very similar to the original and played it for those FNMs. I won like 4 in a row.

That's all setup so that you understand that I was rapidly becoming renowned as a force of nature at these scrubby FNMs. One week a couple of friends from out of town came in and we all decided to do FNM. A friend gave me a Type 1 legal GR madness deck (Mongrel, Lightning Bolt, Fiery Temper, Arrogant Wurm, Violent Eruption, etc. etc.). I won my matches until the 3rd round, when I ran up against a kid playing this really odd artifact deck. I beat him game 1, but game 2 he lands guys that my bolts/Tempers don't really kill, and I don't actually have a sideboard. He has a couple of Composite Golems too. I'm sorta sitting, waiting to draw something to break the ground stalemate when he lands a Door to Nothingness. I'm sitting here like "Okay, must win next turn." Naturally, I have nothing and get Doored. Game 3, ditto. I don't think I've ever seen an expression of happiness quite like the one on this kid's face as I gave up my first match loss to his Door to Nothingness deck. I still haven't lived it down among my friends, but there's a certain comfort in remembering how excited he was, and how much his friends were in awe of his prowess that evening.

Happy Gilmore

10-14-2009, 03:10 PM

Poor you. Are you alright?

Get over it dude. Shit happens.

Am I the only one that thinks Bryant Cook is the new, but not improved TeenieBopper?

GGoober

10-15-2009, 12:07 PM

I do have a casual Legacy deck that randomly beats the shit out of tier Legacy decks (15% of the time).

Here's the list:

MONOBLACK GRO!!!

4 Dark Ritual
4 Aether Vial
3 Nameless Inversion
4 Shepherd of Rot
4 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Death Baron
4 Lord of the Undead
4 Cemetary Reaper
4 Undead Warchief
3 Graveborn Muse
2 Gempalm Polluter

3 Unholy Grotto
4 Mutavault
13 Swamp

Seriously, this is the best casual gro list. Qurion Dryad can't grow as fast lol. Obviously the deck is freaking casual because who the hell starts the curve at 3cc with just dark rit and vials? If vial gets to 3, it's game over. Wrath doesn't stop this deck (grotto and LotU rofl).

I've beaten White weenies, Countertop (lol flip 3s and 4s and swing into my deathtouchers). Sometimes, jank casual trumps $600decks because those $600 are designed for the meta.

Ectoplasm

10-15-2009, 01:13 PM

I've never been able to beat zombies with my goblins :(

majikal

10-16-2009, 03:01 PM

I have played my fully-powered Ubr Tezz against a few casuals who wanted to see it work, and one time got my ass handed to me three games in a row by Standard-legal, tribal vampires after mulling down to three every game and never drawing any outs. It was actually pretty funny. I even tinkered out a Sphinx of the Steel wind somehow in one of those games but didn't have any cards left, and he just Gatekeepered it.

Kuma

10-16-2009, 03:37 PM

Ectoplasm

10-16-2009, 03:42 PM

I once borrowed my friend's fully powered tezzeret-vault deck as well, forgot time vault was restricted, ate a return to dust and lost shortly after.

Float4WeldSlaver

10-16-2009, 03:43 PM

I once lost to a b/r aggro deck that resembled a limited pile when I played my non-powered Control Slaver against it. A resolved Rakdos Guildmage eats Welders all day. I didn't have enough time to tutor up Tinker after the welder plan failed--he dropped some vanilla 3/3's and 4/4's and beat me down.

For shame.

dahcmai

10-17-2009, 04:48 AM

I have a good one for you guys.

There's this one guy who comes in from college here and there to play and he never has money and is the simple sort. Plays whatever commons he has and tries to make something decent out of it. The usual stuff like Basilisk decks and his favorite the ever loved black discard deck.

Well, being a nice guy and I usually try to help out people (mainly to have more people to play), I gave him some Racks. He had never saw the card before and I knew it would be decent enough for playing against his friends and such. I showed him some better discard like Duress and Hypnotics and he was ecstatic.

He entered the local legacy tournament and I got paired up against him first round. He opens with a Rack and I knew exactly which deck he had. I did after help him adjust it just a few days before. I'm playing the quite nasty Team America for fun with Beta duals and all.

It only takes a few turns before he dumps my hand full of useless cards like Wasteland, Stifle, Daze, Force of Will. I say useless as he managed to always have a couple of land open and Force isn't the hottest card out there when you're getting hit by Duresses, Ravenous Rats, Raven's Crime, and a pile of other discard spells. He has all basics and no fetches so the Wastes and Stifles weren't all that hot of course. Oh and don't forget my Snuff out's are useless against a Hypnotic coming my way. lol

He dumps a couple more racks on me and I die a most hilarious death to one of the oldest styles in the book that I helped set up. Game 2 wasn't much different. It's amusing how badly Team America gets owned by shit like that.

I figure at least I gave him a smile for the day and oddly enough not too many other of the decks handled it well either. We have a seriously control heavy meta. He ended up in the top 8 and went on to take 2nd losing to a Zoo deck. It was kind of nice to see him do so well.

MMogg

10-17-2009, 05:42 AM

I have a good one for you guys. [snip].

Did he at least thank you? :laugh: Great story.

Humphrey

10-17-2009, 11:09 AM

One day a new (and rich) magic-player stepped in our local store. since he had lots of money he had bought himself a complete 4000€ vintage weissman-deck. He offered me to battle him and I took my Type2 60€ Slighdeck (Ball Lightning, Cursed Scroll) beeating him continously on round 4/5 :laugh:

Dont know what happened, but I didnt see him again.

Ectoplasm

10-17-2009, 11:31 AM

a complete 4000€ vintage weissman-deck.

What's this? :really:

majikal

10-17-2009, 11:43 AM

What's this? :really:
Brian Weissman's "The Deck". It's basically a drain-based blue control deck that is the model for every blue control deck in Vintage right now. I think Tezz is actually the closest thing to it at the moment.

Humphrey

10-17-2009, 12:16 PM

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=50112

look there

the deck should have beat mine, but he was a noob who couldnt play it :D

FieryBalrog

10-18-2009, 08:43 PM

Haha, this thread is awesome.

Anyway, this happens all the time to me (both ways) because it turns out some decks just suck/pwn against other decks they were never meant to face. My Standard U/W Blink 'Lark would go 50/50 with my friends powered up Legacy Angry Tradewind Survival deck. Stealing Tradewind Rider with Sower of Temptation was particularly awesome.

But then it would roll over and die to his completely budget Lorwyn "Shaman" deck (one of the neglected tribes of the block). In particular, Rage Forger, I have a lot more respect for that card now than I ever did before.

Oh yeah, and it turns out my Geddon Stax can randomly fail badly against random janky casual decks. Found that out the hard way. Chalice and Trinisphere are so bad against Casual.dec and you randomly impale yourself on your own Ancient Tombs while you try to win with a Mishra's factory.