[WTF] Dark Depths

[majikal]

Have you guys seen the outrageous price increase that is happening with this card? It's hovering around $30 in some places.

Did I miss something? Yes it combos with Vampire Hexmage. But, really? Is it really that good? :really:

[Nihil Credo]

It's an Extended-legal combo too. That's why.

[Shanghi Knights]

if u can't afford dark depths, just play hypergenesis cascade. offers the ability to dish out the same kind of beating as a flying 20/20 would.

[majikal]

if u can't afford dark depths, just play hypergenesis cascade. offers the ability to dish out the same kind of beating as a flying 20/20 would.
That's not the point here. What I want to know is why. It just doesn't seem very good. In any format. There is so much relevant, non-destruction creature removal that it just seems like a good way to waste two cards, a land drop, and three turns.

[georgjorge]

Then I guess Stifle + Dreadnought is bad too...?


While the combo isn't that hard to disrupt, it's only two mana and a landdrop, in a color that's rather good at protecting combos. Not broken, but seems at least viable.

[Shanghi Knights]

@ Majikal

its not really a waste of 3 turns. Its feasible for it to go off turn 2 and be over by 3. second its also possible to do it turn 1 and end on two if you build it right.


On the side the price of dark depths is kind of rediculus right now. Unlike stiflenought which is kinda similar to this dark depths combo, dark depths combo pieces are far more plentiful than the price reflects. The price makes it look like its rarer than it is. where as stiflenought for instance its price reflects the cards rarity and demand more accurately.

[rockout]

It's outrageous but no different than the spike of dreadnaught or natural order. Deal with it.

Inb4 lock.

Edit: I am shocked that shanghai knight's didn't start this thread.

[sunshine]

I can't tell you how many times I thought about picking up like 10 copies of this card in the off chance that it got played some day. Fail.

[majikal]

Then I guess Stifle + Dreadnought is bad too...?


While the combo isn't that hard to disrupt, it's only two mana and a landdrop, in a color that's rather good at protecting combos. Not broken, but seems at least viable.
I don't think this even really even compares to Stifle + Dreadnought. First, Stifle is a good card without Dreadnought, and second, that combination requires a mana investment of 1U, and being blue is quite significant, whereas this requires a land drop and an investment of BB, and two cards that are literally useless by themselves. That's a pretty heavy commitment while Stiflenought can be put into anything that plays blue.

I am gladly cashing in my Dark Depths at any rate, as I have about six of them from all the Coldsnap we were forced to draft when I was in college.



Inb4 lock.
Because the Format discussion forum is the wrong place to discuss the viability of something in this format.:eyebrow:

edit:


Edit: I am shocked that shanghai knight's didn't start this thread
This thread started falling apart when he posted three posts in, so it's not far off the mark.

[DrJones]

You also have to take into account that it's Cthulhu ia! ia! F'taghn!

[alderon666]

I don't think this even really even compares to Stifle + Dreadnought. First, Stifle is a good card without Dreadnought, and second, that combination requires a mana investment of 1U, and being blue is quite significant, whereas this requires a land drop and an investment of BB, and two cards that are literally useless by themselves. That's a pretty heavy commitment while Stiflenought can be put into anything that plays blue.

I am gladly cashing in my Dark Depths at any rate, as I have about six of them from all the Coldsnap we were forced to draft when I was in college.


Because the Format discussion forum is the wrong place to discuss the viability of something in this format.:eyebrow:

edit:

This thread started falling apart when he posted three posts in, so it's not far off the mark.

While Dark Dephts is useless by itself, it's no more useless than Dreadnought by itself. What does the 12/12 does alone? Dies do remove opponent's Bridges from Below... and that's about it.

Now on the Hexmage X Stifle. Yeah Stifle is a much better card most of the time, but Hexmage is a 2/1 with first strike, that stops most goblins stone cold. And it's ability can insta kill Elspeth or reset a Vial. While that's no swiss army knife, it's far from useless.

Another point overlooked is the tutorability of the combo by living wish and other cards.

The deal with this combo is, it demands an answer. Combos like that, even if janky (not the case) have the tendency to stick.

[majikal]

You also have to take into account that it's Cthulhu ia! ia! F'taghn!
This is a valid point.

[keys]

While Dark Dephts is useless by itself, it's no more useless than Dreadnought by itself. What does the 12/12 does alone? Dies do remove opponent's Bridges from Below... and that's about it.

Nought also gives +2/2 to all Goyfs.

[majikal]

Nought also gives +2/2 to all Goyfs.
You can also play one, vial a second one in with the first one's trigger on the stack, sac the first one and keep the second.

[KillemallCFH]

It's an Extended-legal combo too. That's why.

[MMogg]

Not to mention I bet casual players everywhere are going ape shit over this. I remember when the only Coat of Arms was from Exodus it had no tournament play, but was still a double digit card. Same thing with Serra Avatar. So, Extended combo players may play this, Legacy players may play this, and casual players may play this. The thing is, it was a shit rare 5 minutes ago, which means nobody wanted it and stores had tonnes of them. Now, all of a sudden, everyone needs them, so the prices spike while the feeding frenzy over the new combo continues. Dreadnought didn't really go up all that much from Stifle because it was already sought after for Illusionary Mask.

I still wouldn't pay $2 for Dark Depths.

[rockout]

Because the Format discussion forum is the wrong place to discuss the viability of something in this format.:eyebrow:

Because a guy is complaining about the price of something. Snore, get a job or sell meth, its easier.

[Dan Turner]

we decided to go through and pull everyone of them from our refill boxes in the back that we use for our $1 rare bin we got 34 of them point me to an online shop that is buying these for $10+ and I will send them all to them except a playset

[rockout]

I'd buy them at 10 a piece ;-)

[majikal]

Because a guy is complaining about the price of something. Snore, get a job or sell meth, its easier.


I am gladly cashing in my Dark Depths at any rate, as I have about six of them from all the Coldsnap we were forced to draft when I was in college.
You're not very good at this "English" thing, are you?

[Shanghi Knights]

It's outrageous but no different than the spike of dreadnaught or natural order. Deal with it.

Inb4 lock.

Edit: I am shocked that shanghai knight's didn't start this thread.

Am I to assume you believe me the source of every bad thread on the Source?

You can't say just deal with it, these small popularity spikes are annoying for many players. Sometimes I think it may also discourage players who are only partially in the game.

[hi-val]

PT Austin is also this weekend. There could be a rush to get cards for that, as well as MASSIVE speculation.

[rockout]

You're not very good at this "English" thing, are you?

Apparently not.

[n00bas4urus_r3x]

we decided to go through and pull everyone of them from our refill boxes in the back that we use for our $1 rare bin we got 34 of them point me to an online shop that is buying these for $10+ and I will send them all to them except a playset

Here's for $9 a pop:

http://www.cardkingdom.com/index.php?sid=576349886&main=catalog&category_id=110055&mode=buylist

[kkoie]

I would also like to point out that vampire hexmage is good at other things besides taking out elspeth since it also hoses Tanglewire, Gemstone Mine, arcbound ravenger (ok it doesn't hose it, but it does force affinity to be a bit more cautions instead of sacing everything and going all in), chalice of the void, engineered explosives... etc etc.

As for Dark Depths costing too much, consider the following average ebay prices: (completed listings on ebay)

Phyrexian Dreadnought $20-30 ea. + Stifle $8-10 ea.
Grindstone $15-25 ea. + painters servant $2
Dark Depths $15-20 ea. +vampire hexmage $1
Natural Order $8-15 ea. + Progenitus $6-10 ea.

So if you go by average prices, the Dark Depths combo is actually the cheapest one to purchase (natural order combo has a slightly higher ave price), and the only one legal in extended as well as legacy and vintage. Whats to complain about?!

[undone]

Its only 15ish-20ish according Ebay, dont worry after 0 top8 in ext the deck will be abandoned. Its not better than just regular faeries or Zoo in ext or faster more consistent combo (ahem heres looking at you hyper LOL), which means it probably will not see much play after a while and will drop. Im pretty sure its just a minor bump so I dont see a problem with it.

[majikal]

I just unloaded my six for $125! Time to buy some sinkholes! :D

[RogueMTG]

I just unloaded my six for $125! Time to buy some sinkholes! :D

Ha, congratz!

[conboy31]

dont worry after 0 top8 in ext the deck will be abandoned. Its not better than just regular faeries or Zoo in ext or faster more consistent combo (ahem heres looking at you hyper LOL), which means it probably will not see much play after a while and will drop. Im pretty sure its just a minor bump so I dont see a problem with it.

Well, it is roughly the 3rd most played deck at the PT Austin (adding all its colors and variations) 4th at lowest, with LSV being one of the pilots.

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/ptaus09/f-breakdown

The jury is out on it t8ing or not.

[Mr.C]

Its only 15ish-20ish according Ebay, dont worry after 0 top8 in ext the deck will be abandoned. Its not better than just regular faeries or Zoo in ext or faster more consistent combo (ahem heres looking at you hyper LOL), which means it probably will not see much play after a while and will drop. Im pretty sure its just a minor bump so I dont see a problem with it.

PV and Paulo Cortez are both 5-0 in extended with it, fyi.

[Shanghi Knights]

got 3 for 46 bucks, not bad considering that most websites are going 24 a pop.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Well, it is roughly the 3rd most played deck at the PT Austin (adding all its colors and variations) 4th at lowest, with LSV being one of the pilots.

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/ptaus09/f-breakdown

The jury is out on it t8ing or not.

so does this mean that Extended has become Dark Depths.dec versus Path to Exile.dec versus Pithing Needle.dec? versus Hypergenesis? Or is it all just hype?

[conboy31]

I am not sure, but the video of LSV's deck shows that he was using something like 3 or 4 of Chalice of the Void and Repeal. So he can really hose that 1cc spot with chalice that gives dark depths trouble as well as being able to bounce problematic stuff.

[Eldariel]

so does this mean that Extended has become Dark Depths.dec versus Path to Exile.dec versus Pithing Needle.dec? versus Hypergenesis? Or is it all just hype?

Dark Depths is fine vs. PtE; it does play protective elements after all. Things that kill X/1s are much worse for it, especially with Ghost Quarters (see that Punishing Fire-control for one). Dredge is a big player with its traditional hate-fighting capabilities and speed, Hypergenesis...not so much as it's ridiculously vulnerable. It's not like Elves; when it faces hate, it dies.

Zoo is obviously still good with winnable MUs against all the combo decks and everything else (dunno about Martyr-control, which seems surprisingly playable), as is mono-red. Really, this is no Rock-Paper-Scissors format; there's just a shitton of decent decks and it's about figuring out which has the best win % against the largest number of decks. Everything has some bad MUs.

[Dan Turner]

I just got $15 each for all mine could not pack them in the bubble mailer fast enough glad to be rid of them. I predict $8-10 each in 2 or 3 weeks.

[conboy31]

PV and Paulo Cortez are both 5-0 in extended with it, fyi.

They have each moved to 6-0.

[Van Phanel]

They have each moved to 6-0.


True, but rounds 6-8 are Draft.

[conboy31]

True, but rounds 6-8 are Draft.

Good eye. Forgot it went 5 and 3 today. I am hoping half of the top 8 is dark depths so I can move the 12 I bought for 45 dollars shipped and the foil I picked up in japan 3 years ago for 125 yen. I am thinking of using all of them plus unopened boxes of FTV exiled and or FTV dragons to get a time walk. 0 proxy vintage here I come.

[mOxMoNgEr]

Let's do some basic math.

Extended Season coming + 2 card combo that can be played in a control shell + can be used in legacy = 20$+ card.

This had to be expected, good card worth money and a 20/20 ''insert a bunch of ability here'' for 2 is pretty good I heard.

[Dan Turner]

anyone know what the token is currently at i have a few i want to move

[Pastorofmuppets]

anyone know what the token is currently at i have a few i want to move

The promo is going for $5 and I can't find prices on the normal one.
Personally, I'd go on Ebay and buy a King Ghidorah action figure to use as my token if I ever wanted to play the deck, just like I use white army men for my Elspeth tokens when I'm playing type 2.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

idk, i checked ebay and saw an auction going for $7, with another with BiN at $12. can't really judge the BiNs though.

Why Ghidorah? Why not Cthulhu?

[Pastorofmuppets]

idk, i checked ebay and saw an auction going for $7, with another with BiN at $12. can't really judge the BiNs though.

Why Ghidorah? Why not Cthulhu?

Do you really think that Cthulu is cooler than Ghidorah when it comes to whipping something out of your backpack at a 5k? Besides, find a Cthulu action figure.

[Barook]

Do you really think that Cthulu is cooler than Ghidorah when it comes to whipping something out of your backpack at a 5k? Besides, find Cthulu action figure.
http://www.entertainmentearth.com/images/%5CAUTOIMAGES%5CPF01406lg.jpg

Only 250 bucks! (http://www.entertainmentearth.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PF01406) :laugh:

[Pastorofmuppets]

http://www.entertainmentearth.com/images/%5CAUTOIMAGES%5CPF01406lg.jpg

Only 250 bucks! (http://www.entertainmentearth.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PF01406) :laugh:

To be honest, I'd probably either whip out a Squiggoth (once I save up my $400 to buy one, fML @ multiple expensive hobbies), or borrow my friend's LoTR Balrog model

[Aggro_zombies]

To be honest, I'd probably either whip out a Squiggoth (once I save up my $400 to buy one, fML @ multiple expensive hobbies), or borrow my friend's LoTR Balrog model
The optimal play here is obviously to make a giant cardboard cutout of Ultros (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Orthros) and then spend the rest of the round making bad puns and lame jokes.

[conboy31]

Sounds like Ochoa is also running Dark Depths and from looking at the board he went 4-1 day one and may be creeping up the standings today with it as well.

[Pastorofmuppets]

The optimal play here is obviously to make a giant cardboard cutout of Ultros (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Orthros) and then spend the rest of the round making bad puns and lame jokes.

Or you could bring a real giant octopus. It'd be something to talk about.

[Mr.C]

Sounds like Ochoa is also running Dark Depths and from looking at the board he went 4-1 day one and may be creeping up the standings today with it as well.

Only Depths combo with chance is PV.

[iamajellydonut]

Then I guess Stifle + Dreadnought is bad too...?


While the combo isn't that hard to disrupt, it's only two mana and a landdrop, in a color that's rather good at protecting combos. Not broken, but seems at least viable.

Stifle = Good Card

Stifle is also a 8-of, and there are better tutors for Nought.

[conboy31]

Only Depths combo with chance is PV.

I was referring more to a dominating extended record as opposed to cumulative points. As of day 1 the win percentage was said to have been around 55%, which is pretty good.

[FieryBalrog]

Looks like 1 DD top 8'd. Mostly Zoo though. Baneslayer Angel is still nuts, as is Grove + Punishing Fire.

[MattH]

The optimal play here is obviously to make a giant cardboard cutout of Ultros (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Orthros) and then spend the rest of the round making bad puns and lame jokes.

I think I would use a King Slime for my token:

http://cool-toy-spot.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/dragon-quest-king-slime-vinyl-figure.jpg

[Humphrey]

My Token:

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6002/imgp0122d.jpg