Obligatory shitty card creation thread

[Goblin Snowman]

Holy mother of... really?

I can dream...

Realistically, it should be
1WG
Instant (no split second)
" "

But hey, if we're making overpowered cards, what's a mana here or there (or split second).

[Hanni]

If it was a single target, I'd say awesome. Right now though, you've basically got Krosan Grip, cut it down a cc, made it more restrictive by requiring white, have given it the ability to also hit Planeswalkers... but it can remove multiple permanents. I'd say simply adding the word "target" would make it fair enough to see print, albeit very good.

[Goblin Snowman]

If it was a single target, I'd say awesome. Right now though, you've basically got Krosan Grip, cut it down a cc, made it more restrictive by requiring white, have given it the ability to also hit Planeswalkers... but it can remove multiple permanents. I'd say simply adding the word "target" would make it fair enough to see print, albeit very good.

A card extremely similar to what you are describing exists (albeit in RW). Sadly, Hide//Seek sees no current play. I think I wanted to overpower that card to give it a home, forgetting that the ability to eat Planeswalkers is already fairly powerful.

[MMogg]

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss48/MMMoggg/KissofLightning.jpg

Crappy? Underpowered?

[Goblin Snowman]

Flame Rift is already playable in Burn...this seems just a bit too good compared to existing cards as an Instant with no drawbacks. It's very likely that this card would only see play in Zoo and Burn, and they are fully capable of getting to RR.

[MMogg]

Flame Rift is already playable in Burn...this seems just a bit too good compared to existing cards as an Instant with no drawbacks. It's very likely that this card would only see play in Zoo and Burn, and they are fully capable of getting to RR.

I was thinking of a 4 cc burn spell that can compete with creature power creep, i.e., something that can kill a Goyf early on without a card disadvantage. To bolts to kill a 3/4 is crazy. Double red makes it non-splashable.

[Hanni]

I like that burn spell, and by no way do I think it's overpowered. It may be better than currently printed cards like Flame Rift, but all it's doing is taking a spell like Incinerate, which is clearly worse than Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, and Rift Bolt... and makes a 2cc burn spell that's actually good.

RR makes it restrictive enough to not be splashable, so it sticks to red based decks like Burn and Sligh, and most Zoo decks these days are so heavy in green and white, that it would require a little adjustment for them to adequately support it.

If it were to need dumbed down, all that would be required would be turning it from an Instant to a Sorcery. Great idea, MMogg, I really like it.

[MMogg]

I like that burn spell, and by no way do I think it's overpowered. It may be better than currently printed cards like Flame Rift, but all it's doing is taking a spell like Incinerate, which is clearly worse than Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, and Rift Bolt... and makes a 2cc burn spell that's actually good.

RR makes it restrictive enough to not be splashable, so it sticks to red based decks like Burn and Sligh, and most Zoo decks these days are so heavy in green and white, that it would require a little adjustment for them to adequately support it.

If it were to need dumbed down, all that would be required would be turning it from an Instant to a Sorcery. Great idea, MMogg, I really like it.

Thanks. :smile:

I felt making it a sorcery would punt it to tier 2 or unplayable. I think it's kind of crazy that the best burn spells were printed in Alpha and Legends. Surely we red mages deserve an upgrade in the power creep of burn to make our aggro strategies viable against huge green beatsticks.

[SilverGreen]

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss48/MMMoggg/KissofLightning.jpg

Crappy? Underpowered?I can't see pictures hosted at Photobucked and the like here, could you post the card's text?

[MMogg]

I can't see pictures hosted at Photobucked and the like here, could you post the card's text?

Sure！

Kiss of Lightning :r::r:
Instant

Kiss of Lightning deals 4 damage to target creature or player.

So, pretty much a 4 dmg Lightning Bolt for an extra :r:.

[SilverGreen]

Right, but very unlike. The MtG standard for 3 red damage has actually a CMC2, with CMC1 being the exception to the rule (the case of Lightning Bolt in current T2, the limited Lava Spike, or Rift Bolt), and for 4 dmg it gravitates towards CMC3 (when the card is pushed, and always with a drawback associated, as in Char and that Shadowmoor RRR instant) and 4 (with the default being the simple Lightning Blast). Adding a mere point of damage dealing to a card involves a much more different math than add a point of life gain. That's the same premise that makes a point of creature power much more onerous in terms of costs than a point of toughness. The reason is simple: damage shortens the game, as life gaining prolongs it, and the later is more likely to afford interactivity than the former.

[MMogg]

Right, but very unlike. The MtG standard for 3 red damage has actually a CMC2, with CMC1 being the exception to the rule (the case of Lightning Bolt in current T2, the limited Lava Spike, or Rift Bolt), and for 4 dmg it gravitates towards CMC3 (when the card is pushed, and always with a drawback associated, as in Char and that Shadowmoor RRR instant) and 4 (with the default being the simple Lightning Blast). Adding a mere point of damage dealing to a card involves a much more different math than add a point of life gain. That's the same premise that makes a point of creature power much more onerous in terms of costs than a point of toughness. The reason is simple: damage shortens the game, as life gaining prolongs it, and the later is more likely to afford interactivity than the former.

Exactly! Just as Lightning Bolt is the exception, this card too could be an exception. As I said just before, it's high time red also gets some better burn. I mean, if Wizards cared so much about math and standards, they should realize a 3/4, 4/5 or 5/6 for :1::g: is crazy. My proposed burn spell is not crazy. It's solid, but not broken or crazy.

[Alecthar]

Sure！

Kiss of Lightning :r::r:
Instant

Kiss of Lightning deals 4 damage to target creature or player.

So, pretty much a 4 dmg Lightning Bolt for an extra :r:.

The only cards I know of that deal this much damage for that cost are limited, possess a significant drawback, or both. If I recall correctly, Flame Javelin was fairly notable as giving you a drawbackless (assuming the triple red is no problem) 4 damage for 3 mana. It's obviously cheaper, it interacts like 10 times better with cards that search for cards based on converted mana cost and it's really great with Cascade (Bloodbraid Elf into Kiss of Lightning is alright). It's an interesting card, given that it's pretty much strictly better than Flame Javelin (in theory, Javelin has a few advantages, such as the ability to play it with varying color investments and the fact that it won't be CounterTopped or Spell Snared). But I honestly think it wouldn't see much play in Legacy, simply because it costs 2 Red, and I think it would probably be too good in Type 2, and maybe Extended (depending on what's legal at the time). Not to mention that, even at uncommon, it would be nonsensically good in Limited, assuming Red was even vaguely competent.

I may be overselling the Limited part, but seriously, it would be pretty good.

[Barook]

Sure！

Kiss of Lightning :r::r:
Instant

Kiss of Lightning deals 4 damage to target creature or player.

So, pretty much a 4 dmg Lightning Bolt for an extra :r:.
Alecthar has a point that it might be a tad to good compared to other spells. However, would it be a fairer card if it was a sorcery?

[Rizso]

Alecthar has a point that it might be a tad to good compared to other spells. However, would it be a fairer card if it was a sorcery?

It could however just do 3 damage on players while doing 4 or even 5 to creatures.

[Cthuloo]

It could however just do 3 damage on players while doing 4 or even 5 to creatures.

If the purpose is to be able to get easily rid of a goyf it could be like:

Tarmobolt RR
Instant

Tarmobolt deals 3 damage to target player or 5 damage to target creature without flying.

[Humphrey]

It wouldnt be an instant I guess, but I like it
sick limited stuff nontheless

[Gheizen64]

Why so limited?

Avalanche 1RR
Sorcery
Destroy target creature withouth flying or target land.

Go imba.

[BreathWeapon]

Tireless Sliver GW

Creature - Sliver

All Slivers have Persist

2/2

Something to give Sliver Tribal both an out vs Tarmogoyf and Sweepers while annoying the piss out of Goblins.

[Hanni]

Tireless Sliver GW

Creature - Sliver

All Slivers have Persist

2/2

Something to give Sliver Tribal both an out vs Tarmogoyf and Sweepers while annoying the piss out of Goblins.

That... is... awesome.

[Dark_Shakuras]

Tireless Sliver GW

Creature - Sliver

All Slivers have Persist

2/2

Something to give Sliver Tribal both an out vs Tarmogoyf and Sweepers while annoying the piss out of Goblins.

Add...

Broodmother Sliver 1GG

Creature - Sliver

All slivers gain: "Whenever another sliver comes into play, put a +1/+1 counter on ~this~"

2/2



And you would have broken the format in half!

(sadly it has to cost 3 at a min, as it would be broken as fuck at 2cc, still 3cc is not bad, even if it means we can't vial it in...)

[Hanni]

Day of Judgement
3WW
Split Second
Destroy all creatures. They cannot be regenerated.

God is Calling
3BB
Split Second
Destroy all creatures. They cannot be regenerated.

Obsolete
2WB
Split Second
Destroy target permanent.

[Barook]

That... is... awesome.
This

Another idea:

Planar Voidmage :b:
Creature - Human Wizard
If a card would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, remove it from the game instead.
1/1

It's basically an upgraded Planar Void with a fragile body.

[Hanni]

The Advisor
1B
Creature - Human Wizard
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal the top card of your library and put that card into your hand. You lose life equal to its converted mana cost.
1/1

Fixed.

[Gibsonmac]

Rusted Sliver
:br: :ub:


All slivers have Whither


2/2

[Volrath]

Vigilant Sliver :1: :w:

Creature - Sliver

All sliver creatures have vigilance

Like a bee, it protects it's hive
Like a bee, it seeks food for the Queen and it's hive.
Unlike a bee, it seems to do it at the same time.

Skyshroud ranger

2/2



Spiketail Sliver :1::u:

Creature - Sliver

All sliver creatures have: ''Sacrifice this creature : counter target spell unless it controler pays :1:''

Like a bee, it stings only when threathened and dies
Unlike a bee, it stings raw magic and dissolves it.

Skyshroud Ranger

1/1



Shielding Sliver :u::w:

All sliver creatures get +0/+1

All Sliver Creatures have "Sacrifice this creature: return target creature to owners hand"'

Like a bee, it....

Skyshroud Ranger, last words

1/1




Hypnotic Sliver :u::w:

Creature - Sliver

All slive creatures have ''tap: tap target creature''

I know i have made several compairisons of bees and slivers in the past, but i never have seen a bee doing that..

Skyshroud ranger

2/2

[FieryBalrog]

Exactly! Just as Lightning Bolt is the exception, this card too could be an exception. As I said just before, it's high time red also gets some better burn.

I really don't think it is, red has always had good burn printed for it, compared to, oh, I don't know, White's Life Gain. They just reprinted Lightning Bolt- Red Burn is fine. We already have a semi-viable Mono Red Burn deck, and frankly its one of the least interesting and most tiresome decks ever and there's no reason on earth to push that archetype.

[MMogg]

I really don't think it is, red has always had good burn printed for it, compared to, oh, I don't know, White's Life Gain. They just reprinted Lightning Bolt- Red Burn is fine. We already have a semi-viable Mono Red Burn deck, and frankly its one of the least interesting and most tiresome decks ever and there's no reason on earth to push that archetype.

I wasn't referring to burn as a deck type, I was referring to the utility. Life gain has always sucked because it isn't removal and it isn't really necessary since white has the best spot removal in the game. Also Swords to Plowshares just got an update with Path to Exile. That's 8 :w: instant speed removal. Red has the same old lame 3 dmg spells it has had since 1994. The fact that they reprinted Lightning Bolt after saying they never would (and Shock had become the norm for :r:) just goes to show how little impact Lightning Bolt has nowadays. Heck, in Legacy even Incinerate isn't played, so I don't see why a 2cc 4 damage spell is somehow not worth considering.

Anyway, I'm extremely biased since I <3 :r:.

[MattH]

One card I'm surprised they haven't made is very simple: :2::b: or :1::b::b: cantrip Edict.

[Nidd]

One card I'm surprised they haven't made is very simple: :2::b: or :1::b::b: cantrip Edict.
You realize this would be pushing the 2-for-1 theme of Jund in Standard even further?

[Cthuloo]

One card I'm surprised they haven't made is very simple: :2::b: or :1::b::b: cantrip Edict.

Something I would really like is a cantrip innocent blood.

:b: :b:

Each player sacrifices a creature. Draw a card at the beginning of your next turn upkeep.

I think this will be good but not too overpovered, since you must have a very low creature count to have CA, :b: :b: makes it not easily splashable, and the drawing is delayed.

[Willoe]

How about:

XR

Instant

Choose one — ~ deals three times X damage to target creature ; or ~ two times X damage to target player and three times X damage to you.

I think it is a balanced card. For 2R, you can toast a Goyf or a Tombstalker in most situations. For 4R, you can toast a Dreadnought if you choose the first mode.

But I don't know actually, is it too unfair to have a burn spell that deals 6 dmg to a dude for only 2R? (It also dodges Counterbalance, mind you)

When choosing the dmg2dome mode, you will have to have >50% more life than the opponent for it to work properly. I think that is fair.

MattH: Yeah, I'm rather surprised too. If the card had to be balanced, how much would a black instant that read "destroy target creature. Draw a card" cost? 4B?

[quicksilver]

But I don't know actually, is it too unfair to have a burn spell that deals 6 dmg to a dude for only 2R? (It also dodges Counterbalance, mind you)

Well they recently printed a card for 2R that does 5 damage to a creature and you have to sac a land and I think it's a sorcery too.

[Digital Devil]

Bloody Titan ---- :2::r:
Creature - Elemental
If there are no creatures other than Bloody Titan onto the battlefield, Bloody Titan becomes a 5/1 Elemental Berserker creature with Haste.
"It just happened again. I know exactly what to do with him, so I don't need you anymore. You can go aw..." --- Gustha Ebbasdotter, last words
2/4

[santeria]

I saw this posted somewhere else awhile ago. it didnt have split second though.


Finalize - :r:
Instant
Split Second
Target Spell Resolves.

[Hanni]

Jotun Champion
2W
Creature - Giant Soldier
First Strike
Cumulative upkeep—Put two cards in a single graveyard on the bottom of their owner’s library. (At the beginning of your upkeep, put an age counter on this permanent, then sacrifice it unless you pay its upkeep cost for each age counter on it.)
5/1

[DragoFireheart]

Arcanogoyf
1U
Lhurgoyf
Rare
*/1+*

Arcanogoyf's power is equal to the number of card types among cards in all graveyards and its toughness is equal to that number plus 1. (The card types are artifact, creature, enchantment, instant, land, planeswalker, sorcery, and tribal.)

[Nidd]

Arcanogoyf
1U
Lhurgoyf
Rare
*/1+*

Arcanogoyf's power is equal to the number of card types among cards in all graveyards and its toughness is equal to that number plus 1. (The card types are artifact, creature, enchantment, instant, land, planeswalker, sorcery, and tribal.)
No, no, just no. A Goyf that's pitchable to FoW? Hell, no!

[MMogg]

No, no, just no. A Goyf that's pitchable to FoW? Hell, no!

Ooo, you're right, it should be:

Arcanogoyf
1U
Lhurgoyf
Rare
*/1+*

Arcanogoyf's power is equal to the number of card types among cards in all graveyards and its toughness is equal to that number plus 1. (The card types are artifact, creature, enchantment, instant, land, planeswalker, sorcery, and tribal. If Arcanogoyf is put into a graveyard or exiled, put it onto the battlefield instead.

:wink:

[BreathWeapon]

Another idea,

Exalted Sliver WG

Creature - Sliver

All of your Slivers have Exalted

2/2

Basically, Slivers needs a threat vs Tarmogoyf, so the combination of Muscle and Sinew Slivers pumping effects combined with Exalted would be enough to get there reliably.

It might make a really cool 1/1 for G Elf as well, but Elves are gay.

[Hanni]

Another idea,

Exalted Sliver WG

Creature - Sliver

All of your Slivers have Exalted

2/2

Basically, Slivers needs a threat vs Tarmogoyf, so the combination of Muscle and Sinew Slivers pumping effects combined with Exalted would be enough to get there reliably.

It might make a really cool 1/1 for G Elf as well, but Elves are gay.

Seems extremely underpowered. +1/+1 > Exalted, and you can get that ability on both a 1W and 1G guy. While having a 2/2 body means its swinging in for 3 next turn, it still seems worse than simply having a 1/1 body with +1/+1 to all Slivers. Maybe if you made it 1/1 and have it cost either W or G, that would seem much more fair, especially considering that Slivers typically wants to overcommit and then swing with multiple Flying guys and not just 1 guy at a time.

[Guevera59]

It seems perfectly powered. If you have him and a Sinew Sliver. He swings for 5 power, enough to trump a Goyf.

[Hanni]

It seems perfectly powered. If you have him and a Sinew Sliver. He swings for 5 power, enough to trump a Goyf.

Sinew makes him 3/3, Exalted swinging solo makes him 4/4. 4/4 doesn't trump a Goyf unless it's a 3/4 Goyf. It's perfectly printable, but I'm not sure if Slivers would want to include it over Winged Sliver, which simply allows guys to swing in the air over Goyf. Exalted does nothing special on defense.

[Madmaniac21]

Sinew makes him 3/3, Exalted swinging solo makes him 4/4. 4/4 doesn't trump a Goyf unless it's a 3/4 Goyf. It's perfectly printable, but I'm not sure if Slivers would want to include it over Winged Sliver, which simply allows guys to swing in the air over Goyf. Exalted does nothing special on defense.

Uh, exalted stacks. 2 slivers in play = +2/+2 when swinging solo, so 5/5.

[Hanni]

No shit, wasn't even thinking about that. Good call.

[MMogg]

Speaking of slivers, how about making the search function more playable than the slivercycling Homing Sliver.

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss48/MMMoggg/SurvivalSliver.jpg

(for SilverGreen --> :g: Survival Sliver, All Slivers have “Sacrifice this creature: search your library for a Sliver card, reveal it, and put it into your hand.” 1/1)

The art was shamelessly Googled and doesn't represent the cards functionality, but fucking cool nonetheless.

[Hanni]

I'd like to see some better Rebels. The kind that make Rebels viable.

[MMogg]

I'd like to see some better Rebels. The kind that make Rebels viable.

Oh, you mean like:

Rebellious Goyf
:1::w:
Lhurgoyf
Rare
*/1+*

Rebellious Goyf's power is equal to the number of card types among cards in all graveyards and its toughness is equal to that number plus 1. (The card types are artifact, creature, enchantment, instant, land, planeswalker, sorcery, and tribal.)
I'm tired of being big green dumb beats. I want a purpose in life!
:wink:

Seriously though, I like Rebels and I'd love to see something narrow and ridiculous that they'd never print.

Underground Funds
:w:
Instant
Add :w::w::w: to your mana pool. Use this mana only to cast Rebel spells.

I find Rebels are just too damn slow, and need something to give them a boost. Maybe a "Rebel Headquarters" land that provides more mana but only can be spent on Rebels. :eyebrow:

[Alecthar]

I think new Goyf's need to be changelings. Without all creature types, how will I use my Merfolk Sovereign's to make my UGoyf unblockable? How will I be able to search for my WGoyf with Linn Sivvi? And perhaps most important, how will I be able to play my RGoyf with my Goblin Lackey?

[Glorfindel]

Underground Funds
:w:
Instant
Add :w::w::w: to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast Rebel spells or to activate abilities of Rebel permanents.Fixed ...

[Maveric78f]

3-color 3CC powerful planeswalkers.


For instance, Bant Planeswalker: UWG
+1: twiddle
+1: remove target permanent from the game, return it into play under it's owner's control at the next upkeep.
+1: each player may search its library for a basic land card and put it into play. Each player who searched this way, shuffles it library.
-X: draw X cards, gain X life and put X +1/+1 counters on target creature.
Loyalty: 2

Probably too strong as it is. But anyway, you see the point.

[Kuma]

How about this for a Legacy planeswalker?

1GU

+1: Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player this turn, you may draw a card.

-1: Look at the top three cards of your library. Put any number of them on the bottom of your library in any order.

-6: Search your library for a green creature card and put it onto the battlefield. Shuffle your library.

Loyalty: 3

[Nidd]

How about this for a Legacy planeswalker?

1GU

+1: Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player this turn, you may draw a card.

-1: Look at the top three cards of your library. Put any number of them on the bottom of your library in any order.

-6: Search your library for Progenitus and put it onto the battlefield. Shuffle your library.

Loyalty: 3
That's what you wanted to say, right?

[Cthuloo]

How about this for a Legacy planeswalker?

1GU

+1: Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player this turn, you may draw a card.

-1: Look at the top three cards of your library. Put any number of them on the bottom of your library in any order.

-6: Search your library for a green creature card and put it onto the battlefield. Shuffle your library.

Loyalty: 3

I think it's a bit overpowered as it is. I would switch the first two abilities, and make some other change:


1GU


+2: Look at the top card of your library. You can put it on the bottom of your library.

-1: Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player this turn, you may draw a card.

-6: Search your library for a green creature card and put it onto the battlefield. Shuffle your library.

Loyalty: 2

It will still fit very well in cuntertop decks, since the first ability is good on it's own but very synergistic with Brainstorm, Top and Counterbalance. The second should give a -1 loyalty imho, otherwise it will be too easy to gain massive CA while still beating and charging the planeswalker for it's ultimate.

As it is it gives you two strategic routes: play control using first ability and then demolish them with Progenitus, or be the beatdown keeping pressure and drawing more threats.

[Kuma]

That's what you wanted to say, right?

You caught me. :tongue:


I think it's a bit overpowered as it is. I would switch the first two abilities

I originally had the first two abilities switched, but I changed it to make it less nuts with Counterbalance. Gaining loyalty while abusing Counterbalance and/or fixing your draws seemed too good to me.


1GU

+2: Look at the top card of your library. You can put it on the bottom of your library.

-1: Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player this turn, you may draw a card.

-6: Search your library for a green creature card and put it onto the battlefield. Shuffle your library.

Loyalty: 2

Your version is fine, but I think the combat damage ability should be a +1 to offset the vulnerability of the planeswalker when your creatures are attacking. This allows for a stronger library manipulation ability. No one wants to activate a planeswalker just to look at the top card of their library and put it back. Planeswalkers should be more exciting.

[Volrath]

Vigilant Sliver :1: :w:

Creature - Sliver

All sliver creatures have vigilance

Like a bee, it protects it's hive
Like a bee, it seeks food for the Queen and it's hive.
Unlike a bee, it seems to do it at the same time.

Skyshroud ranger

2/2



Spiketail Sliver :1::u:

Creature - Sliver

All sliver creatures have: ''Sacrifice this creature : counter target spell unless it controler pays :1:''

Like a bee, it stings only when threathened and dies
Unlike a bee, it stings raw magic and dissolves it.

Skyshroud Ranger

1/1



Shielding Sliver :u::w:

All sliver creatures get +0/+1

All Sliver Creatures have "Sacrifice this creature: return target creature to owners hand"'

Like a bee, it....

Skyshroud Ranger, last words

1/1




Hypnotic Sliver :u::w:

Creature - Sliver

All slive creatures have ''tap: tap target creature''

I know i have made several compairisons of bees and slivers in the past, but i never have seen a bee doing that..

Skyshroud ranger

2/2

I really like that exalted sliver btw

[Barook]

It would also be nice if there was an anti-tribal assassin type of creature. First rough draw:

Racist :1::b::b:
Creature - Human Assassin
As Racist comes into play, choose a creature type.
Tap: Destroy target creature of the chosen type.
2/2

Might be a bit too strong and could be balanced with an higher activation cost.

[Hanni]

Looks pretty fair to me, when you compare it to the never played Royal Assassin. If anything, make it 1/1, but the rest of the design looks fair.

[Humphrey]

It would also be nice if there was an anti-tribal assassin type of creature. First rough draw:

Racist :1::b::b:
Creature - Human Assassin
As Racist comes into play, choose a creature type.
Tap: Destroy target creature of the chosen type.
2/2

Might be a bit too strong and could be balanced with an higher activation cost.

As Hanni noted. Nobody plays superior Royal Assasin.
If anthing it must be:

Racist :1::b::b:
Creature - Human Assassin
As Racist comes into play, choose a creature type.
:b::b:: Destroy target creature of the chosen type.
2/2

[Nonex]

White is the weakest color in Legacy. Perhaps some cost reducers would help?

Faith Harmonizer :w: (C)
Creature - Human Cleric
White spells cost 1 less to cast.
1/1

Order Harmonizer :w: :w: (U)
Creature - Human Knight
First strike
White spells cost :2: less to cast.
2/2

Ideal Harmonizer :2: :w: (R)
Creature - Human Cleric
Shroud
White spells cost :3: less to cast.
0/3

Light Harmonizer :2: :w: :w: (M)
Legendary creature - Angel
Flying, lifelink
White spells cost :w: less to cast.
4/4

Not that all of them should be printed, of course, but at least two could be fine.

[santeria]

It would also be nice if there was an anti-tribal assassin type of creature.

Rogue Assassin :1::b::b:

Flash, Haste
Tap to destroy any tapped creature.

0/1

[Tilde]

Some sort of half-decent 2-mana Zombie, maybe:

Oversold Zombie BB
Creature - Zombie
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have four or more Zombie cards in your graveyard, you may return target Zombie card from your graveyard to your hand.
2/2

EDIT: While we're going crazy on tribal zombies:

Zombie of Unusual Size 2BB
Creature - Zombie
Cycling 2B
When you cycle Zombie of Unusual Size, search your library for a Zombie card and put it in your graveyard, then shuffle your library.
4/3

Yet Another Zombie Lord 1BB
Creature - Zombie
Other Zombie creatures you control get +1/+1
Zombie cards in your graveyard have Dredge 3.
2/2

Zombie Blood B
Tribal Sorcery - Zombie
Each player sacrifices a non-Zombie creature.

[BreathWeapon]

Speaking of slivers, how about making the search function more playable than the slivercycling Homing Sliver.

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss48/MMMoggg/SurvivalSliver.jpg

(for SilverGreen --> :g: Survival Sliver, All Slivers have “Sacrifice this creature: search your library for a Sliver card, reveal it, and put it into your hand.” 1/1)

The art was shamelessly Googled and doesn't represent the cards functionality, but fucking cool nonetheless.

This + Aether Vial = And I jizzed in my pants.

Probably undercosted tho', I'd put it appr. 1G for a cheaper, non-card advantage Goblin Matron. Actually, it'd have to be at Sorcery speed too, otherwise it'd be frickin' nuts vs sweepers and spot removal.

[elof]

It could be "put that card on top of your library". Much more suckier, but still.

[MMogg]

Here's a card I think is balanced although others may think it's too powerful. It kind of combines Pernicious Deed (obviously) and Powder Keg, in that it can only affect one particular casting cost and can't wipe out the board. Also, I added Planeswalkers to the list.

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss48/MMMoggg/Morphera.jpg

Again for those who can't see the image:
Morphera :g::b: Legendary Creature, Spirit 1/1
X: Sacrifice Morphera: Destroy all artifacts, creatures, planeswalkers and enchantments with a converted casting cost equal to X.


As for my Survival Sliver, I don't think he's undercosted. He is somewhat grounded by the fact that M10 rules don't let you block, dmg on the stack, sack. If he would make Slivers viable, then he would do his job. :wink:

[heroicraptor]

The phrase you're looking for is "non-land permanents".

[quicksilver]

The phrase you're looking for is "non-land permanents".

Then it couldn't destroy manlands.

[santeria]

nimble goblin - :r:

shroud

3/3

[Jeff Kruchkow]

3-color 3CC powerful planeswalkers.


Probably too strong as it is. But anyway, you see the point.

of course, its final will be used like, every time right away.

Also, deed creature seems pretty fair as its essentially punishment that dies to StP.

Personally id like to see another ritual of some sort.

Super Ritual BB
Add BBBB to mana pool.

Incredibly likely to be too powerful but I loves me some combo.

[Goblin Snowman]

On the topic of overpowered Planeswalkers...

UBG
Planeswalker
+1; Discard two cards, then draw a card
-2: Put a 1/1 Insect token with Deathtouch into play.
-X; Destory each nonland permanent with converted mana cost X or less.

Loyalty; (2)

[LostButSeeking]

of course, its final will be used like, every time right away.

Also, deed creature seems pretty fair as its essentially punishment that dies to StP.

Personally id like to see another ritual of some sort.

Super Ritual BB
Add BBBB to mana pool.

Incredibly likely to be too powerful but I loves me some combo.

I like Bryant Cook's version:

Ritually Ritual BR
Sorcery
Add BBRR

[santeria]

On the topic of overpowered Planeswalkers...

UBG
Planeswalker
+1; Discard two cards, then draw a card
-2: Put a 1/1 Insect token with Deathtouch into play.
-X; Destory each nonland permanent with converted mana cost X or less.

Loyalty; (2)

looks like a retouched version of the the MMogg just posted.

[Goblin Snowman]

looks like a retouched version of the the MMogg just posted.

Of the creature? Because it has a Deed-like ability?

[Taurelin]

Prevalence
Instant (U)
Split Second
Prevalence can't be countered by spells or abilities.
Name a card. Until end of turn, all triggered abilities of the named card are ignored.
Draw a card.

Bye, bye Counterbalance. Bye, bye Chalice. Go, go, Solidarity. :smile:

[Draener]

Spell Slight
Instant (0)

Spell Slight is blue.
Counter target spell with converted mana cost (1) or less.

[Bigface]

Spell Slight
Instant (0)

Spell Slight is blue.
Counter target spell with converted mana cost (1) or less.

Insane IMHO. Counters too many cards for free (you don't even have to pitch cards for it).

[quicksilver]

Prevalence
Instant (U)
Split Second
Prevalence can't be countered by spells or abilities.
Name a card. Until end of turn, all triggered abilities of the named card are ignored.
Draw a card.

Bye, bye Counterbalance. Bye, bye Chalice. Go, go, Solidarity. :smile:

What's the point of split second? It already can't be countered.




Spell Slight
Instant (0)

Spell Slight is blue.
Counter target spell with converted mana cost (1) or less.
So god damned ridiculously broken.

[Taurelin]

What's the point of split second? It already can't be countered.

With Split Second it won't be affected by Mindbreak Trap.

[Barook]

Death Helix :b::r:
Instant
Death Helix deals 3 damage to target creature or player. Destroy all creatures dealt damage this way.

It's basically Terminate which trades the anti-regeneration clause against the option to damage players.

[santeria]

Death Helix :b::r:
Instant
Death Helix deals 3 damage to target creature and 3 damange to target player.

[Barook]

Death Helix :b::r:
Instant
Death Helix deals 3 damage to target creature and 3 damange to target player.
Kinda sucks if your opponent doesn't have a creature (you can target).

[Muradin]

Rationality
[U]
Enchantment
Shroud

As this comes into play name a card. The named card can't be played.

[Carabas]

Wizard's Shrine :u::w::w:
Enchantment
Sacrifice an enchantment: Counter target spell

[Humphrey]

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9941/regenbogenbruecke.jpg

[santeria]

Goblin Blast - :0:
Tribal Sorcery - Goblin
Sacrifice a goblin, deal 5 damage to target creature or player.

[leander?]

Rainbowland
I'm wondering what that would cost if it would be printed as a mythic.

[Van Phanel]

Rainbowland
I'm wondering what that would cost if it would be printed as a mythic.

Over 9000

[santeria]

I'm wondering what that would cost if it would be printed as a mythic.

not much, it doesnt tap for anything. apparently its just insanely fetchable.

[Volrath]

All lands with the landtype forest tap for G, the same principle applies to the other basic land types.

[Maveric78f]

Serra's sanctuary
Legendary Land
{T}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
{1}{W}, {T}: Put target enchantment card from your graveyard on top of your library.

[Skeggi]

Serra's sanctuary
Legendary Land
{T}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
{1}{W}, {T}: Put target enchantment card from your graveyard on top of your library.
I would love to see this card.

[FredMaster]

I would love to see this card.
Wouldn't Countertop love to see that card as well and become more nutsy?

[Maveric78f]

Steel Mox
Legendary Artifact, 0 {0}
If Steel Mox would enter the battlefield, you may exile an artifact card instead. If you do, put Steel Mox onto the battlefield. If you don't, put it into its owner's graveyard.
{T}: Add {2} to your mana pool.

Reconstruction
Sorcery, 3U (4)
Return all Artifact cards from your graveyard to the battlefield.

[Skeggi]

Wouldn't Countertop love to see that card as well and become more nutsy?
Well... I play CounterTop :wink:

[Van Phanel]

Steel Mox 0
Artifact
Tap: Add :1: to your mana pool.

[Skeggi]

Steel Mox 0
Artifact
Tap: Add :1: to your mana pool.
I'd add something like 'When Steel Mox enters the battlefield lose 2 life' or so to balance things.

[leander?]

Reconstruction
Sorcery, 3U (4)
Return all Artifact cards from your graveyard to the battlefield.
No. Just, no.

[AngryTroll]

Serra's sanctuary
Legendary Land
{T}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
{1}{W}, {T}: Put target enchantment card from your graveyard on top of your library.

I feel like everyone wants this card....but no one really wants to play against this card. Remember how frustrating it is when your opponent draws three or four Standstills? Or how frustrating it is when your opponent rips a Counterbalance after you Grip one?

Wasteland sees a ton of play, but this land would still be pretty annoying. Your opponent would usualy get to use it at least once, and that can be pretty brutal.

[slylie]

Greater Bloodghast
Vampire, BBB
Deathtouch
Landfall - You may return ~ from your graveyard to play, if you do, you loose 2 life.
Greater Bloodghast can only block green or artifact creatures.
3/1

[santeria]

Reconstruction
Sorcery, 3U (4)
Return all Artifact cards from your graveyard to the battlefield.

Reconstruction
Sorcery, 3U (4)
Return all Artifact Creature cards from your graveyard to the battlefield.

[Aggro_zombies]

I feel like everyone wants this card....but no one really wants to play against this card. Remember how frustrating it is when your opponent draws three or four Standstills? Or how frustrating it is when your opponent rips a Counterbalance after you Grip one?

Wasteland sees a ton of play, but this land would still be pretty annoying. Your opponent would usualy get to use it at least once, and that can be pretty brutal.
Does the idea of Standstill lock give anyone else a raging hard-on?

[Piceli89]

Build-Your-Combo
U, instant

If you have a Tendrils of Agony and/or an Ill-Gotten gains in your hand, this spell costs 0.

Draw 2 cards, then put 2 cards on the top of your library. Shuffle your deck afterwards.

"Ok, so Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Inf.."
"<System>Player Lost"

:rolleyes:

[quicksilver]

Let's make storm combo broken:

The Goggles :0:
Instant
Buyback - :0:
Odd how something that does nothing can be so broken.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Does the idea of Standstill lock give anyone else a raging hard-on?

There's a real reason to splash white in Merfolks.

[MMogg]

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss48/MMMoggg/CropSequencing.jpg
(For those unable to see the image:
Crop Sequencing, Land,
T: add 1 to your mana pool.
T: sacrifice Crop Sequencing: return target land card from your graveyard to play.)

[ebbitten]

Two of those=infinite landfall ftw.

[Jander78]

Reconstruction
Sorcery, 3U (4)
Return all Artifact cards from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Reconstruction (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1219)

[johanessen]

Trinket Poet 2W
Creature - Human Townsfolk
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may search your library for an enchantment card with converted mana cost 1 or less, reveal that card, and put it into play. If you do, shuffle your library.

[Forbiddian]

1W
Instant
Exile target creature.

[Phoenix Ignition]

1W
Instant
Exile target creature.

Why does white need to get Doom Blade on Roids??

I hate that white is the color for removal. It should be black. I used to love the color wheel.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Rotting Knight :b: :b::b:
Creature-Zombie Knight
Protection from green
When Rotting Knight comes into play, remove target green creature from the game.
2/2

[Forbiddian]

Why does white need to get Doom Blade on Roids??

I hate that white is the color for removal. It should be black. I used to love the color wheel.

When was black ever the color for removal? It had Terror when white had Swords. White and black have always gotten removal together, but black's removal is restricted to being unable to hit black creatures.

So yeah, mourn the color wheel for the one thing that HASN'T changed since Alpha. So stupid.

[Maveric78f]

Does the idea of Standstill lock give anyone else a raging hard-on?

I don't see how this is more impressive than EE recursion or tormod recursion. Spending 5 manas to draw 2 additional cards each turn does not seem that broken to me.

The setups with intuition on Moat/Humility/Deed+LifeFromTheLoam+SerraSanctuary look cool (but not broken, because it involves a lot of colours and a big GY dependency).

[Humphrey]

Rotting Knight :b: :b::b:
Creature-Zombie Knight
Protection from green
When Rotting Knight comes into play, remove target green creature from the game.
2/2

What about

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/3929/dunklerritter.jpg

[FoulQ]

When was black ever the color for removal? It had Terror when white had Swords. White and black have always gotten removal together, but black's removal is restricted to being unable to hit black creatures.

So yeah, mourn the color wheel for the one thing that HASN'T changed since Alpha. So stupid.

Yeah, Alpha had its shit together. :wink:

[Humphrey]

Black and Red still dont have enchantment removal

[(nameless one)]

What about

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/3929/dunklerritter.jpg

The flavor text made my day

[Pastorofmuppets]

What about

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/3929/dunklerritter.jpg

Realistically, the card I posted doesn't kill Mongeese, the main problem for Knights.

[Humphrey]

how about a new ability on it:

Opposing Thres.hold

~gets +2+2 as long as seven or more cards are in target opponents graveyard.

[quicksilver]

how about a new ability on it:

Opposing Thres.hold

~gets +2+2 as long as seven or more cards are in target opponents graveyard.

Scarred of getting Threshold replaced by ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh?

[Barook]

Grim Decaymancer :b:
Creature - Zombie Wizard
:b:, tap, remove two cards in a single graveyard from the game: Target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn.
1/1

[Phoenix Ignition]

Creature Name :g::g:
Creature - Beast
As long as you control no non-basic lands, Creature Name gets +3/+3 and trample.
1/2

[MMogg]

Creature Name :g::g:
Creature - Beast
As long as you control no non-basic lands, Creature Name gets +3/+3 and trample.
1/2

I think +3/+0 would make it a little less crazy.


I'd love to see more types of basic lands:

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss48/MMMoggg/DenseForest.jpg

A cycle of two mana producing basics would be cool.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I think +3/+0 would make it a little less crazy.


With the drawback of needing to not play duals, it has to be better than goyf.

It's only crazy until you realize goyf is 4/5 in a mostly blue deck.

[MMogg]

With the drawback of needing to not play duals, it has to be better than goyf.

It's only crazy until you realize goyf is 4/5 in a mostly blue deck.

Forest + Elvish Spirit Guide = 1st turn 4/5. That's nuckin futs. The "drawback" of playing no non-basics isn't that much of a drawback. Goyf is often 4/5, but not first turn. Usually by turn three, he's still a 3/4 (Fetch/Wasteland, Ponder, Stifle/Daze). The conditions to get Goyf to 4/5 are a little more difficult in the first two turns than this proposed critter.

[Forbiddian]

Forest + Elvish Spirit Guide = 1st turn 4/5. That's nuckin futs. The "drawback" of playing no non-basics isn't that much of a drawback. Goyf is often 4/5, but not first turn. Usually by turn three, he's still a 3/4 (Fetch/Wasteland, Ponder, Stifle/Daze). The conditions to get Goyf to 4/5 are a little more difficult in the first two turns than this proposed critter.


Omg, are you serious?

Any deck playing Basic Forest + Elvish Spirit guide SERIOUSLY needs a boost to be Legacy competitive. The play you discussed illustrating the power of the new card isn't even that good of a play.

And at any rate, it's really unfair to point at any green card and subtract 1 from the casting cost and not even discuss how that just walks you into Swords to Plowshares.

We can all play that game:

Counterbalance costs UU? OMG, imagine Lotus Petal --> Counterbalance! It's in play on turn 1.

Whoa, Bob costs 1B? With an Elvish Spirit Guide, you can play that card advantage machine on turn 1! Imagine just B for a 2/1, that's already decent, but then it also lets you draw a card a turn!

Trinisphere? That's just like a Chrome Mox and an Ancient Tomb away from just costing 1!



And secondly, the game isn't over on turn 2.

Goyf starts 1/2, but then grows throughout the game to 4/5 or 5/6 while its controller plays all the best spells in the format (including, I'm sure, a Swords to Plowshares rendering any "combat superiority" useless)

This creature starts out 4/5 and then either shrinks down to a 1/2, or its controller is stuck playing the worst color in Magic. Do people still look at Legacy Magic as a format still fundamentally decided in the first three turns of the game in the red zone?



Oh, and PI, it should be a 5/5 (and probably 5/5 with the ability -3/-3 if you control a non-basic land to avoid weird wording). I don't want any Goyf Offs between two decks each running 8 copies of 4/5s. I have seen enough 4/5 Goyf standoffs to last a lifetime, thanks.

[MMogg]

Omg, are you serious?

Any deck playing Basic Forest + Elvish Spirit guide SERIOUSLY needs a boost to be Legacy competitive. The play you discussed illustrating the power of the new card isn't even that good of a play.

Yeah, Mono Green Stompy isn't even Tier 3, but I still contend that better deckbuilders and players than me or you can find a way to break a 4/5 for :g::g:.


And at any rate, it's really unfair to point at any green card and subtract 1 from the casting cost and not even discuss how that just walks you into Swords to Plowshares.

When did I do that, exactly? Discussing how a creature walks into Swords was a little invalidated by the superiority of Goyf who is also vulnerable to Swords.


We can all play that game:

Counterbalance costs UU? OMG, imagine Lotus Petal --> Counterbalance! It's in play on turn 1.

Whoa, Bob costs 1B? With an Elvish Spirit Guide, you can play that card advantage machine on turn 1! Imagine just B for a 2/1, that's already decent, but then it also lets you draw a card a turn!

Trinisphere? That's just like a Chrome Mox and an Ancient Tomb away from just costing 1!

Was all that snarky sarcasm really valid?


And secondly, the game isn't over on turn 2.

Goyf starts 1/2, but then grows throughout the game to 4/5 or 5/6 while its controller plays all the best spells in the format (including, I'm sure, a Swords to Plowshares rendering any "combat superiority" useless)

It's funny how when you discuss Goyf he somehow gets bigger without any disruption, but when discussing this creature, he's nearly an automatic StP target or will become smaller, as if someone playing him would play a non-basic. The fact of the matter is that the proposed creature is easier to make a 4/5.


This creature starts out 4/5 and then either shrinks down to a 1/2, or its controller is stuck playing the worst color in Magic. Do people still look at Legacy Magic as a format still fundamentally decided in the first three turns of the game in the red zone?

I don't know about "people", but for me, yes, when discussing aggro decks, the first few turns are crucial. No they don't always decide the game, but they can go a long way to setting the tempo of the game.

[Maveric78f]

I think +3/+0 would make it a little less crazy.


I'd love to see more types of basic lands:

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss48/MMMoggg/DenseForest.jpg

A cycle of two mana producing basics would be cool.

This would be ridiculously strong, but quite interesting because it would make the metagame play higher CC spells. The cards that do what you said are non basic, can be activated only twice and cannot be tutored with fetches. It seems a bit too much a difference for a single card.

[Humphrey]

It cant be a basic forest, but it can be a forest.

[MMogg]

Well, my rationale – however misguided – was that the "comes into play tapped" would bring about some limitation. That being said, as I said earlier, I'd just like to see them do something updated with basic lands like they did with snow-covered. I wouldn't want to see this as a nonbasic. I'd rather not see such a card at all. My whole point is to diversify the basic land pool so as to be able to play mono colored decks without being condemned to tier three.

[Forbiddian]

Yeah, Mono Green Stompy isn't even Tier 3, but I still contend that better deckbuilders and players than me or you can find a way to break a 4/5 for :g::g:.

I have no idea what you're talking about. 4/5 for 2 when you're forced to play the worst color in Magic is not imbalanced. Mono Green is a piece of shit and that has nothing to do with the creatures that it runs. It's not like Mono Green is hovering around Tier 2 status and is just one mid-sized beater away from dominating the format. No.

Tarmogoyf is a 4/5 for 1G on turn 3 or 4, and doesn't pin you on ridiculous color choices. I'd gladly give up a few power for a few turns for access to good cards instead of Bounty of the Hunt and Rancor. Legacy survived a 4/5 for 1G that was alone in its own tier of broken as a creature. Now we're used to it. I'm only even surprised when Goyf is a 5/6 on turn 3, now.

I like this suggestion because it's a good card, has an interesting ability, helps decks that need help, and also encourages players to play in an offbeat manner. I think specifically this might spring green aggro into the playable range, maybe not. Certainly it would diversify the field.



It's funny how when you discuss Goyf he somehow gets bigger without any disruption, but when discussing this creature, he's nearly an automatic StP target or will become smaller, as if someone playing him would play a non-basic. The fact of the matter is that the proposed creature is easier to make a 4/5.


That's ok. I'll try to explain it again. If you're stuck playing FOREST FOREST MONO GREEN, YOU DON'T HAVE DISRUPTION. You're green, your cards suck.

That's why this creature is likely to be the number one crop farmer in all Kazakhstan and Tarmogoyf is skipping the farming lessons to smash face.

[Maveric78f]

But a colorless basic seems very interesting:

Factory
Basic Land: Factory
Factory comes into play tapped.
{T}: Add {2} to your mana pool.

[Jason]

That's ok. I'll try to explain it again. If you're stuck playing FOREST FOREST MONO GREEN, YOU DON'T HAVE DISRUPTION. You're green, your cards suck.


I heard Bryant Cook loses to Forests on occasion

[Hummingbird TG]

Some random cards for no purpose in particular:

Non-Armageddon
GGG
Sorcery
Destroy all lands except basic Forests.

Whee mono-Green! Decent Green LD.

Good Red LD
RR
Sorcery
Good Red LD can't be countered. Destroy two target non-basic Lands.

And Red.

Okay, now Stifle isn't the best LD in the format any more. And something for black:

Land Rot
B
Enchantment -Aura
Enchant Land
Enchanted Land's controller must discard a card from his or her hand as an additional cost to play mana abilities of Enchanted Land.

[Maveric78f]

Tribal Planeswalker (but better than Nissa Revane and with the tribal type and the tribe's subtype) would be interesting too.

[(nameless one)]

Tribal Planeswalker (but better than Nissa Revane and with the tribal type and the tribe's subtype) would be interesting too.

Life would be really awesome if Nissa had a Survival of the Fittest on elves ability (fetching Chosens sucks in Legacy)

[tivadar]

Yeah having that be a basic land would make splashing any color for double mana infinitely easier. Really, it'd give rise to more 3 color decks. I love the "Creature Name". And no, I agree, I don't believe he's overpowered. He requires you to play a mono green deck with no special lands.

Anyways, look at it this way, I could spend 2 mana and 1 card to get a 4/5 trample, or 2 mana and 2 cards to get a 12/12 trample. The second doesn't care what types of lands I play. So what's the big deal? Give stompy a boost. Heck, I'd put a cycle of these guys. There needs to be more incentive for playing monocolored.

And hey, can we make one a merfolk?? :-P

[Maveric78f]

And hey, can we make one a merfolk?? :-P

IslandWalker UUU
+1: target land becomes an island in addition its other types (NOT until end of turn)
-1: target merfolk gains islandwalk and gains "whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, you may draw that many cards."
-5: bounce all non-blue non-land permanents.
Loyalty: 3

What do you think?

[(nameless one)]

Creature Name :g::g:
Creature - Beast
As long as you control no non-basic lands, Creature Name gets +3/+3 and trample.
1/2

If this has a relevant tribe, it would be awesome (I'm looking at elves)


IslandWalker UUU
+1: target land becomes an island in addition its other types (NOT until end of turn)
-1: target merfolk gains islandwalk and gains "whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, you may draw that many cards."
-5: bounce all non-blue non-land permanents.
Loyalty: 3

What do you think?

This will replace Standstill in merfolk builds (or it looks like it). But then again, Merfolk builds have been cluttered with 3 drops lately. Cold-Eyed Selkie would be so much better if it costed 2-mana to play

Is this card broken?

Elvish Horticulturist G

Creature - Elf Druid

Tap: Search your library for a basic land and put it into play.

1/1

Yes, I'm pushing for elves

[Maveric78f]

Is this card broken?

Elvish Horticulturist G

Creature - Elf Druid

Tap: Search your library for a basic land and put it into play.

1/1

Definitely too strong. But if you change it with "each player may search..." or "... put it into your hand", it looks balanced.

[(nameless one)]

Definitely too strong. But if you change it with "each player may search..." or "... put it into your hand", it looks balanced.

Would it be broken if you were searching for a basic forest instead? I see it as a good Llanowar Elves/Landfall enabler

[Maveric78f]

Would it be broken if you were searching for a basic forest instead? I see it as a good Llanowar Elves/Landfall enabler

It'd be far better than llanowar, which is already considered as really good. Cheating on land plays is really strong. Elfball and survival elves would probably be much better than they are currently. It would probably not break the metagame since plague and perish are better than those decks, but anyway, it seems dangerous.

[quicksilver]

It's like llanowar elves, except that it gives 1 mana first turn, 2 mana second turn, 3 mana third turn etc.... While at the same time improving your draws by removing land. If it put it into your hand I would say it would be balanced.

[Barook]

Anti-discard Dude :w::w:
Creature - Human Cleric
Players can't discard cards.
2/2

Not sure how to word it exactly, but it should work like this:
Hose discard like Hymn or Thoughtseize on the one hand, but also stuff that requires discard as additional or activation cost (e.g. Survival, LED, etc.).

[heroicraptor]

The hand size limit goes out the window too.

[FoulQ]

I like the Anti-Discard Dude, that sort of white disruption bear has become popular with cards like ethersworn canonist and true believer and all them. I still don't think it would really push any majorly-white decks into a solid deck choice though (cmon, the only people who play death & taxes and its ilk are the diehard fans). I like how it is good against combo, survival, and suicide strategies all at the same time.

I don't like the basic land ideas...it's just way way too confusing. Leave it at the 5.

And I am surprised that people don't like the GG 4/5 basic land duder? Not only would he give berserk stompy a boost, he'd totally fuck with standard and kick lotus cobra baneslayer angel jund this and 3-4c this out the freaking window. This + wasteland in the next expansion set please!

Some of the suggestions are really flavorful and cool, but we have to remember the impact they will have on the more popular formats like standard, extended, possibly draft/block, etc...a card like the previously mentioned decaymancer or the elf land fetcher might wreck a lot of standard for instance.

Anyways, I think this card could be cool, probably wouldn't have an impact on legacy though,

Firequake
RG
Sorcery
Destroy target land.

Kind of weird how the best LD decks don't even play any LD. This + sinkhole + destructive flow would be fun but not competitive.

Maybe also a variation of root maze,

Root Labrinyth
GG or 1G
Nonbasic lands come into play tapped.

Also probably not playable, but still pretty cool nonetheless. Another cool potential LD card,

World Rot
BBB, everything else too risky
Sorcery
Destroy target nonbasic land. Search player's hand and library and put them into that player's graveyard.

Just a few LD thoughts. World Rot is obviously great on decks with a lot of colors, but has potential on yourself too, like perhaps pox or something casting it on their factory when they have a crucible in play. But I don't really know Pox so I don't know if this would be cool for them or not. Maybe something with loam too, but that's why I made it BBB instead of something like 1BB or perhaps even 2BB because that makes it too easy to adapt into certain decks and it might be really unfair.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Not only would he give berserk stompy a boost, he'd totally fuck with standard and kick lotus cobra baneslayer angel jund this and 3-4c this out the freaking window. This + wasteland in the next expansion set please!

Some of the suggestions are really flavorful and cool, but we have to remember the impact they will have on the more popular formats like standard, extended, possibly draft/block, etc...a card like the previously mentioned decaymancer or the elf land fetcher might wreck a lot of standard for instance.

But... the thread title says "for Eternal reasons." I'd say most of the cards that people want for eternal reasons would break in half Standard. They play with nerf guns while we play with real guns.

[FoulQ]

They can make cards that would be great in legacy but not busted in standard. They do it all the time, sometimes on purpose for legacy/vintage, sometimes not.

Wild Nacatl, Qasali Pridemage, the merfolk tribe, chalice of the void, progenitus, etc.

[Patrick]

Anti-discard Dude :w::w:
Creature - Human Cleric
Players can't discard cards.
2/2

Not sure how to word it exactly, but it should work like this:
Hose discard like Hymn or Thoughtseize on the one hand, but also stuff that requires discard as additional or activation cost (e.g. Survival, LED, etc.).

This is probably the best submission this far.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Anti-discard Dude :w::w:
Creature - Human Cleric
Players can't discard cards.
2/2

Not sure how to word it exactly, but it should work like this:
Hose discard like Hymn or Thoughtseize on the one hand, but also stuff that requires discard as additional or activation cost (e.g. Survival, LED, etc.).

Would certainly make Wild Mongrel playable again... lol...

[TotallySweet]

Tiny Annoying Doodad :1:

Artifact Creature - Doodad

Whenever you shuffle your library, you may have target opponent shuffle his or her library.
Whenever a player shuffles his or her library, Tiny Annoying Doodad deals 1 damage to them.

"I wish I could hate you to death."
1/1

o_O

[Hiis]

Deadly Storm of Death :1: :r: :r: :r:

Sorcery

Deadly Storm of Death deals 5 damage to all creatures.



Go go mono red control :laugh:

[Phoenix Ignition]

Tiny Annoying Doodad :1:

Artifact Creature - Doodad

Whenever you shuffle your library, you may have target opponent shuffle his or her library.
Whenever a player shuffles his or her library, Tiny Annoying Doodad deals 1 damage to them.

"I wish I could hate you to death."
1/1

o_O

Ahahahaha this is freaking sweet! Make it a mythic rare just to spite people even more. This would be such a fun card to build a deck around (along with the other damage-shuffler card). Crappy deck, yes, but so much win.

[heroicraptor]

Would certainly make Wild Mongrel playable again... lol...

No it wouldn't. "Players can't discard cards." is a different statement from "If a player would discard a card, instead they don't." The first stops Wild Mongrel's ability, the second makes Wild Mongrel a Graham's Number/Graham's Number.

[Phoenix Ignition]

No it wouldn't. "Players can't discard cards." is a different statement from "If a player would discard a card, instead they don't." The first stops Wild Mongrel's ability, the second makes Wild Mongrel a Graham's Number/Graham's Number.

Oops, misread it.

In that case I wouldn't probably run it, for fear of AdN going nuts on me with 4 Black Lotus.

[Aggro_zombies]

Oops, misread it.

In that case I wouldn't probably run it, for fear of AdN going nuts on me with 4 Black Lotus.
I don't think that works either, since discarding is also part of LED's activation cost. Having it be a mana ability doesn't change the fact that you can't pay the cost for it.

EDIT: "Sacrifice Lion's Eye Diamond, Discard your hand: Add three mana of any one color to your mana pool. Activate this ability only any time you could cast an instant."

[Phoenix Ignition]

So it would be a static ability? Or a replacement effect? If it's a replacement effect LED would still work right?

[TotallySweet]

It's not a replacement, otherwise it would read: If a player would discard a card, he or she doesn't instead.

[Maveric78f]

Would certainly make Wild Mongrel playable again... lol...

I really thought it was sarcasm. I found it funny. I'm sad it wasn't.

And yes, Barook is the best card designer of this thread. I had already noticed it.

[Barook]

And yes, Barook is the best card designer of this thread. I had already noticed it.
Thanks.

I just realized that the card would also have broken possibilities with blue draw that discards afterwards. Breakthorugh would be basically an Ancestral Recall on steroids.

[Maveric78f]

Thanks.

I just realized that the card would also have broken possibilities with blue draw that discards afterwards. Breakthorugh would be basically an Ancestral Recall on steroids.

Yeah. Let me take back what I said. You're a bad designer after all ^^.

The wording could be:
Opponents can't discard.
If a spell or ability an opponent controls would cause you to discard a card, instead you don't.

[Barook]

Yeah. Let me take back what I said. You're a bad designer after all ^^.

The wording could be:
Opponents can't discard.
If a spell or ability an opponent controls would cause you to discard a card, instead you don't.
I don't think it would broken enough to change the effect. Most of those cards aren't good enough for themselves. It would also ruin the entire symmetry thing.

[(nameless one)]

It's like llanowar elves, except that it gives 1 mana first turn, 2 mana second turn, 3 mana third turn etc.... While at the same time improving your draws by removing land. If it put it into your hand I would say it would be balanced.

I actually dont mind if the land (or basic land for balanced purposes) is put into hand. Although if a card like that were to see print, It might enable a new Parfait archetype.


Anti-discard Dude :w::w:
Creature - Human Cleric
Whenever a player discards a card, exile it instead. At the beginning of each player's end step, return those cards to their owner's hand.
2/2

Not sure how to word it exactly, but it should work like this:
Hose discard like Hymn or Thoughtseize on the one hand, but also stuff that requires discard as additional or activation cost (e.g. Survival, LED, etc.).

Fixed or more broken?



Tiny Annoying Doodad :1:

Artifact Creature - Doodad

Whenever you shuffle your library, you may have target opponent shuffle his or her library.
Whenever a player shuffles his or her library, Tiny Annoying Doodad deals 1 damage to them.

"I wish I could hate you to death."
1/1

o_O

A card that could break Cosi's Trickster! could...

[santeria]

Tiny Annoying Doodad :1:

Artifact Creature - Doodad

Whenever you shuffle your library, you may have target opponent shuffle his or her library.
Whenever a player shuffles his or her library, Tiny Annoying Doodad deals 1 damage to them.

"I wish I could hate you to death."
1/1

o_O


creature ? it should probably be in the rack/vise/doll family.

[TotallySweet]

I mercifully made it a creature so that it would be easier to kill. I mean you can already trinket mage it up...

[Barook]

Anti-discard Dude :w::w:
Creature - Human Cleric
Whenever a player discards a card, exile it instead. At the beginning of each player's end step, return those cards to their owner's hand.
2/2
More broken and completely misses the point. It should hose discard AND cards that require discard as costs - your card still hoses discard, but makes the latter cards that don't rely on their graveyard even better. E.g. when you discard your dudes to survival, you get also get the discarded creatures back - it would be basically a better Squee. It also breaks Cycling in halfs.

I really don't see why the blue discard-draw is suddenly a problem in a format where you can get two-mana two-card combos that do far more broken things for you.

[umbowta]

Anti-discard Dude :w::w:
Creature - Human Cleric
Players can't discard cards.
2/2

Not sure how to word it exactly, but it should work like this:
Hose discard like Hymn or Thoughtseize on the one hand, but also stuff that requires discard as additional or activation cost (e.g. Survival, LED, etc.).

How about

Eternal Shepherd :w::w:
Legendary Creature - Human Cleric
Whenever target opponent would discard a card, exile it instead. If a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard a card you may return target card from your graveyard to your hand.

At the beginning of your upkeep, if Eternal Shepherd is in your graveyard, you may pay :w::3: to return Eternal Shepherd to your hand.
2/2

[johanessen]

Whenever target opponent would discard a card, exile it instead.

Whenever an opponent discards a card, exile it instead of putting into it's owner's graveyard.

Is that better?

[Nihil Credo]

To the best of my knowledge, "players can't discard cards" works fine as a wording, just like "players can't gain life" (Sulfuric Vortex) or "players can't search their library" (Mindlock Orb).

In all of those cases, effects that cause those actions instead do nothing, and costs involving those actions can't be paid.

For balancing purposes, I'd just add the ability: "Players* can't draw more than one card each turn", unless there is some cheap pseudo-drawing + discard spell I forgot about.

* Could be "you", but the symmetry is more elegant.

[umbowta]

To the best of my knowledge, "players can't discard cards" works fine as a wording, just like "players can't gain life" (Sulfuric Vortex) or "players can't search their library" (Mindlock Orb).

In all of those cases, effects that cause those actions instead do nothing, and costs involving those actions can't be paid.

For balancing purposes, I'd just add the ability: "Players* can't draw more than one card each turn", unless there is some cheap pseudo-drawing + discard spell I forgot about.

* Could be "you", but the symmetry is more elegant.So at EOT what do I do with the 8th card in my hand?

[Phoenix Ignition]

So at EOT what do I do with the 8th card in my hand?

Not discard it.

[quicksilver]

Not discard it.

Ya that seems pretty obvious. Clearly this card you make no maximum hand size.

[umbowta]

Whenever an opponent discards a card, exile it instead of putting into it's owner's graveyard.

Is that better?No that's not better at all. The act of discarding is part of the activation cost of Survival of the Fittest, which is one of the things we're trying to nerf.

[umbowta]

To the best of my knowledge, "players can't discard cards" works fine as a wording, just like "players can't gain life" (Sulfuric Vortex) or "players can't search their library" (Mindlock Orb).

In all of those cases, effects that cause those actions instead do nothing, and costs involving those actions can't be paid.

For balancing purposes, I'd just add the ability: "Players* can't draw more than one card each turn", unless there is some cheap pseudo-drawing + discard spell I forgot about.

* Could be "you", but the symmetry is more elegant.

@the bolded portion which I just fully read and comprehended(i'm supposed to be working on a program in CIS lab right now instead of reading the source;-)

Without the second ability, Careful Study and Cephalid Coliseum would be busted in half for sure:smile:

[Nonex]

Costs that would cause a player to discard cards can't be paid.
Effects that would cause a player to discard cards don't apply unless they would cause that player to draw cards.

How does that look?

[Phoenix Ignition]

Costs that would cause a player to discard cards can't be paid.
Effects that would cause a player to discard cards don't apply unless they would cause that player to draw cards.

How does that look?

Second line looks ambiguous. Does this stop Cephalid Looter from drawing you cards? I don't know if magic cards really check the future for whether you are going to discard after you draw.

[Nihil Credo]

@the bolded portion which I just fully read and comprehended(i'm supposed to be working on a program in CIS lab right now instead of reading the source;-)

Careful Study and Cephalid Coliseum would be busted in half for sure:smile:

No, they wouldn't. Careful Study would do nothing (you can't draw because you already drew once in your draw step, and you can't discard), and Coliseum would at best cycle if activated during an opponent's turn.


Costs that would cause a player to discard cards can't be paid.
Effects that would cause a player to discard cards don't apply unless they would cause that player to draw cards.

How does that look?Second line would lead to some guru-type questions (eg. what if the effect has a conditional draw) and possibly contradictions too, but it doesn't matter because that text is too cumbersome to see print anyway.

[Barook]

For balancing purposes, I'd just add the ability: "Players* can't draw more than one card each turn", unless there is some cheap pseudo-drawing + discard spell I forgot about.
I still have yet to see a blue draw spell that would break the card (e.g. Breakthrough) and doesn't suck on its own in a deck that mustn't rely on the graveyard because you would screw yourself over once the Anti-Discard hits the table. Gaining +2 CA instead +1 CA from stuff like Thirst for Knowledge or turning Merfolk Looter into Archivist doesn't sound exactly broken to me. Making it to a pseudo-Chains of Mephistopheles would be even a buff to it (and self-restriction only is just plain dumb).


No that's not better at all. The act of discarding is part of the activation cost of Survival of the Fittest, which is one of the things we're trying to nerf.
Why would you nerf one of the two main aspects the card is intended to hose? :confused:

[Pastorofmuppets]

I still have yet to see a blue draw spell that would break the card (e.g. Breakthrough) and doesn't suck on its own in a deck that mustn't rely on the graveyard because you would screw yourself over once the Anti-Discard hits the table. Gaining +2 CA instead +1 CA from stuff like Thirst for Knowledge or turning Merfolk Looter into Archivist doesn't sound exactly broken to me. Making it to a pseudo-Chains of Mephistopheles would be even a buff to it (and self-restriction only is just plain dumb).


It makes Telling Time really good.

[Barook]

It makes Telling Time really good.
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/cards/15357.jpg

Now you're just trolling.

Edit: A try to fix the 'broken':


Players can't discard cards.
Spells and abilities which would cause a player to discard can't be played.

Are there any (static) effects that wouldn't be covered with the second sentence? I think with this (or a similar wording), it would come closer to the original intend of the card.

[Nonex]

I just realized that not all effects limit themselves to discard or discard and draw. I guess something like "Effects that would only cause a player to discard cards don't apply" would be more appropiate.

[umbowta]

Why would you nerf one of the two main aspects the card is intended to hose? :confused::confused: The card is intended to nerf Survival. If the controller of Survival can't activate it because discard is replaced with exile then Survival has been efectively nerfed...or hosed, whatever word you want to use. They pay green, exile a card, and don't get to search...does that work with the rules? Would the card be exiled or could they even attempt to activate it all with the exile replacment efect in all instances of discard? I'm no Judge.

No, they wouldn't. Careful Study would do nothing (you can't draw because you already drew once in your draw step, and you can't discard), and Coliseum would at best cycle if activated during an opponent's turn.You must have replied before I edited my post mere minutes later. see underlined below
@the bolded portion which I just fully read and comprehended(i'm supposed to be working on a program in CIS lab right now instead of reading the source;-)

Without the second ability, Careful Study and Cephalid Coliseum would be busted in half for sure:smile:

[EDIT]
Spells and abilities which would cause a player to discard can't be played.Ooohh. I think you might have it there.

[umbowta]

With Barook's improved wording...and sans the no max handsize thing.

Eternal Shepherd :w::w:
Legendary Creature - Human Cleric

Spells and abilities which would cause a player to discard can't be played.

At the beginning of your upkeep, if Eternal Shepherd is in your graveyard, you may pay :w::3: to return Eternal Shepherd to your hand.
2/2

[Nonex]

The way Eternal Shepherd is written right now applies only to effects (by forbidding to pay their costs), while saying nothing about costs that imply discarding. Survival of the Fittest is unaffected.

[Barook]

The way Eternal Shepherd is written right now applies only to effects (by forbidding to pay their costs), while saying nothing about costs that imply discarding. Survival of the Fittest is unaffected.
This. You would be still able to to discard cards to pay costs which shouldn't work under the intended use.

Besides, white utility bears don't have recurring abilities, legendary or not.

To update the old thing:

Noble Mindguard :w::w:
Creature - Human Cleric
Players can't discard cards.
Spells and abilities which would cause a player to discard one or more cards can't be played.
2/2

[Nihil Credo]

I don't think that second ability can be printed under the rules: using the effects of a spell or ability as a condition for playing it leads to trouble. Consider this card:

Ad Hoc
Sorcery
Reveal the top card of your library. Discard cards equal to its converted mana cost.

If the top card of your library has CMC zero, Ad Hoc can be played. If not, it can't. But since the library is not a public zone, this can't be determined until Ad Hoc resolves. There is no way to know if playing Ad Hoc is a legal action.

Something that would definitely work is "Spells or ability with the word 'discard' in their text can't be played", but that's ugly as hell.

[Barook]

The question is how to word it to make it work under the rules. I just added the "one or more cards" to match the wording with other cards. Would the more general wording work?


Something that would definitely work is "Spells or ability with the word 'discard' in their text can't be played", but that's ugly as hell.
The problem with this wording is that it even prevents cards like Wild Mongrel from being played.

[Nihil Credo]

The question is how to word it to make it work under the rules. I just added the "one or more cards" to match the wording with other cards. Would the more general wording work?

No, because discarding zero cards does not count as discarding (like a BoP dealing 0 damage does not deal any damage and charge up Jitte), thus Ad Hoc should still be legal to play if and only if the top card has CMC zero.


The problem with this wording is that it even prevents cards like Wild Mongrel from being played.

Good point. It would have to be 'Instants, sorceries, and abilities', I guess - wouldn't cover replacement effects like Chains of Mephistopheles, but the first ability takes care of them. Still unprintably ugly, though.

[umbowta]

The way Eternal Shepherd is written right now applies only to effects (by forbidding to pay their costs), while saying nothing about costs that imply discarding. Survival of the Fittest is unaffected.

Yeah, you're right. I'm out of ideas for that one.

[Barook]

The main question remains if blue draw would be really that powerful to screw over a simple and elegant design.

You could also try to make it simply unattractive by a adding some kind of retarded drawback like:


If an effect would cause a player to discard a card, each opponent of the effect's controller may draw a card.
Something like this would open some interesting design space, similar to Aven Mindcensor, too:


'Insert fancy name here', the Mindguard :w::w:
Legendary Creature - Human Cleric
Flash
Players can't discard cards.
If an effect would cause a player to discard a card, each opponent of the effect's controller may draw a card.
2/2
This way, it would punish discard spells even more, e.g.:

Opponent: Hymn
You: Response, Mindguard, drawing 2 cards.

[Nonex]

I still think focusing on costs and effects rather than spells and abilities is the way to go. By forbidding all costs that need discard we shut down all activated abilities (like Survival of the Fittest or Putrid Imp) and spells with additional costs (like Firestorm or Devastating Dreams), which if I understood Eternal Shepherd correctly is part of the plan. Then we could decide if we want to forbid all effects that include discard among other things or just those that force only discard.

[santeria]

Dick Stone - :1:

Artifact

When dick stone comes into play, choose target permanent with atleast one static ability. During their upkeep, the owner of that permanent must pay :2: or all static abilities on that permanent are countered until their next upkeep. (this does not effect mana abilities.)

[TotallySweet]

You can't counter a static ability so it would have to be something like, "That card loses that ability until ~whenever" or something. Might even have to Phase that permanent out, even.

[Nihil Credo]

I thoroughly encourage everyone to just skip on the extremely overdone and massively annoying "[Cheap mana cost] - [Optional: Ability making it hard to answer] [Ugly ability hosing Counterbalance/Top/Goyf]" design.

[umbowta]

I thoroughly encourage everyone to just skip on the extremely overdone and massively annoying "[Cheap mana cost] - [Optional: Ability making it hard to answer] [Ugly ability hosing Counterbalance/Top/Goyf]" design.:frown: Okay

Eternal Shepherd :w::w:
Legendary Creature - Human Cleric


Sacrifice Eternal Shepherd: Put an indestructible 0/1 spirit token onto the battlefield.

For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. John 3:34
2/2

[Gibsonmac]

:frown: Okay

Eternal Shepherd :w::w:
Legendary Creature - Human Cleric


Sacrifice Eternal Shepherd: Put an indestructible 0/1 spirit token onto the battlefield.

For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. John 3:34
2/2

That would be pretty bad ass, I'd play clerics cuase of it

[umbowta]

That would be pretty bad ass, I'd play clerics cuase of it

Amen.

Need I say more?

[Iare]

Awesome red bear :r: :r::
Creature- Human Bezerker
Haste
When awesome red bear comes into play destroy target non-basic land.
2/2

[pi4meterftw]

UU U/2 instant
Counter target spell. Return all permanents whose mana was used to cast this spell to their owner's hand.

WU creature
3/4
When ~ comes into play, draw a card.
Creatures you control can't attack
You can't play lands if you control at least 2 lands.

UUX instant
Counter target spell. Then remove ~ from the game with X suspend counters if X>0, and name a card. The named card can't be played while ~ has time counters.

UX instant
Target player skips his or her next X draws.

[JeroenC]

UUX instant
Counter target spell. Then remove ~ from the game with X suspend counters if X>0, and name a card. The named card can't be played while ~ has time counters.

UX instant
Target player skips his or her next X draws.

So you'd like for them to obsolete Counterspell, while the current "standard" for permission is Cancel?
And you'd like a blue Blaze to give you time walks? Oh yeah, great ideas!:confused:

[pi4meterftw]

So you'd like for them to obsolete Counterspell, while the current "standard" for permission is Cancel?
And you'd like a blue Blaze to give you time walks? Oh yeah, great ideas!:confused:

What? Nobody plays counterspell, the standard is definitely not cancel in eternal. And the thread asks for ideas about eternal. This is most definitely weaker than mana drain, which isn't even so broken as to not be fair in legacy. How is skipping draws timewalks? Lol one can exaggerate either way so much. This is a blue spell that instead of giving you the card advantage in one shot (which would be pretty strong, see stroke of genius and braingeyser) it gives you the cards overtime, most of the time about 1-2 per turn. The tradeoff is it's generally more powerful to stop your opponent from drawing a card than to draw a card yourself, although not by much. (You could, for example, be pressed to answer something he has already drawn and played, in which case you drawing would be much better.) I don't see how either of your complaints holds any meaning.

[Maveric78f]

Preventing draws is far better than discard. Why was plow under considered good before fetches appeared? Why does Chittering Rats costs B more than Ravenous Rats? (I help, it's not because it has +1/+1)

Your UX instant is utterly broken. Can you imagine FS or Ustax with this? That would be stupid.

However if it was:

Broken Time UX
Instant
Players skip their next X draws.
It would be interesting as a tempo card in an aggro deck. It could be cheated with hellbent brainstorm.

[TotallySweet]

Opposium 4:wg::wg:

You may untap two creatures you control rather than pay Opposium's mana cost.

Activated abilities of permanents with "{tap symbol}" as a cost must untap instead, unless it is a mana ability. (other costs to activate remain unchanged).
Creatures without vigilance must untap to attack.

4/6


The picture would be an giant, negatively colored opossum with a tophat.

[quicksilver]

Opposium 4:wg::wg:

You may untap two creatures you control rather than pay Opposium's mana cost.

Activated abilities of permanents with "{tap symbol}" as a cost must untap instead, unless it is a mana ability. (other costs to activate remain unchanged).
Creatures without vigilance must untap to attack.

4/6


The picture would be an giant, negatively colored opossum with a tophat.

I'm sure there must be something that is broken with.

Only thing I can think of is something like firewhip on birds of paradise or something. I know that's not broken but there's gotta be something broken out there with that.

Maybe opposition + a creature with a tap ability.

When you start changing costs into benefits you always run the risk of creating broken stupid stuff.

[CallMeLiam]

Opposium 4:wg::wg:

You may untap two creatures you control rather than pay Opposium's mana cost.

Activated abilities of permanents with "{tap symbol}" as a cost must untap instead, unless it is a mana ability. (other costs to activate remain unchanged).
Creatures without vigilance must untap to attack.

4/6


The picture would be an giant, negatively colored opossum with a tophat.

Put a silver border on it and it's perfect.

[santeria]

I thoroughly encourage everyone to just skip on the extremely overdone and massively annoying "[Cheap mana cost] - [Optional: Ability making it hard to answer] [Ugly ability hosing Counterbalance/Top/Goyf]" design.

I dont know if was directed at me or not. but that wasnt meant to hose cb/top/goyf specifically, rather anything that annoyed you to play against. a way to nulify an annoying permanent, like a glorious anthem/honor the pure in a kithkin deck or a chalice for 0 against combo or any random damned goblin or lock piece of stax or even in stax.

it was supposed to be like a pithing needle for static abilities, but with an optional out to it. I costed it based off of it coming from the original alpha/arabian/antiquities sets.

[TotallySweet]

Put a silver border on it and it's perfect.

I can't help but make silly cards. I try to make serious ones but every time it just turns out like this.

:*(

[Maveric78f]

I'm sure there must be something that is broken with.

Only thing I can think of is something like firewhip on birds of paradise or something. I know that's not broken but there's gotta be something broken out there with that.

Maybe opposition + a creature with a tap ability.

When you start changing costs into benefits you always run the risk of creating broken stupid stuff.

That's just broken alone, since nobody can even get any mana and you've got a 4/6 into play...

Other than that, if you say non-land permanents, if you make it 1/4 in order for it to be out of range of bolt but also not too impressive, and if you say that these creatures have to be either W or G, then the design looks nice to me (out from broken combos I could not figure out). It would completely hose most %T abilities while it enables some neat combos opposition is nice but a bit slow. Tradewind rider is also slow.

[Barook]

Not really that original after the Anti-discard Dude, but still an interesting effect on its own:


Permanents can't be sacrificed.
However, that would certainly cause some problems with Dreadnoughts, stuff that requires upkeep, etc. I hope this version would be less abuseable:

Moralfag :w::w:
Creature - Human Cleric
Permanents can't be sacrificed to pay costs of spells or abilities.
2/2

I think it would be a great hoser - out of my head, it would hose:
Wasteland, Fetchlands, Pridemage, NO, Dark Depths combo, Cabal Therapy, Pridemage, LED, Lotus Pedal, Dread Return (among other things)

[Maveric78f]

In a more compact way:
Players can't pay sacrifice costs.

[Aggro_zombies]

In a more compact way:
Players can't pay sacrifice costs.
In a more correctly templated way:

Players can't activate abilities that require sacrificing a permanent in their costs.

[Ectoplasm]

What? Nobody plays counterspell

Welcome (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9280)

[Phoenix Ignition]

In a more correctly templated way:

Players can't activate abilities that require sacrificing a permanent in their costs.

So an easier creature to get out than Magus of the Moon (requires a mox and not a double land) that does WAYYYY more to mess with people's manabases that's in a color that already has a solid mono-colored control?

And then it even messes with combo-based strategies, ichorid, and zoo? And then it can be protected by a chalice @1 because that's the most mana anyone would ever get out if it was played first turn. No thank you.

[Barook]

So an easier creature to get out than Magus of the Moon (requires a mox and not a double land) that does WAYYYY more to mess with people's manabases that's in a color that already has a solid mono-colored control?
Double white is less splashable than MotM. And it's certainly not more powerful than Magus in terms of mana disruption because it doesn't stop Duals from producing the correct mana or takes away other abilities (e.g. Factory; Wasteland is the noteable exception) from lands.

Or to put it simply: You are only fucked if you are a fetchland whore.


In a more correctly templated way:
Players can't activate abilities that require sacrificing a permanent in their costs.
That's not the original wording. This wording would still allow spells like NO to be played.

[pi4meterftw]

Welcome (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9280)

I stand corrected. No good decks play counterspell.

[Forbiddian]

Double white is less splashable than MotM. And it's certainly not more powerful than Magus in terms of mana disruption because it doesn't stop Duals from producing the correct mana or takes away other abilities (e.g. Factory; Wasteland is the noteable exception) from lands.

Or to put it simply: You are only fucked if you are a fetchland whore.

... what's your definition of "fetchland whore"? Any deck at all in Legacy?

Or to put it simply: This card is too strong.

[Tacosnape]

In a more correctly templated way:

Players can't activate abilities that require sacrificing a permanent in their costs.

Why not just "Permanents can't be sacrificed."?

This would have far more of an effect on the game, and seems more interesting to me.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Why not just "Permanents can't be sacrificed."?

This would have far more of an effect on the game, and seems more interesting to me.

How about "nonland permanents can't be sacrificed"

Wouldn't F over every deck except mono-control's lands, and still is strong enough to mess up over half the decks out there.

Cursecatcher, Warren Weirding or any other edict, Natural Order, LED, Cabal Therapy, Pridemage, Hexmage, smokestax, and Hypnotist (if you use him in Ichorid) all get screwed.

Side effects are it helps Ichorid, bloodghast (which actually hurts that deck sometimes), keldon maurauders/hellspark elemental/ball lightning creatures, Dreadnaught, all evokes (dunno if there are any powerful evoke creatures to break), ELDRAZI MONUMENT!!! etc...

Seems more balanced at least.

[Aggro_zombies]

Why not just "Permanents can't be sacrificed."?

This would have far more of an effect on the game, and seems more interesting to me.
That depends on the intention. The version you propose would cause cards with cumulative upkeep to have essentially no drawback, and the interactions with a variety of mechanics that require sacrificing things would be improved (Fading and its Planar Chaos clone). The intent of the card I was trying to reword was essentially to hose things like fetches and LED, so it was much more narrow.

And of course, there aren't even any good cumulative upkeep cards, so I guess that point it moot. I was just trying to mimic the original card idea, but with a better wording.

A smaller, cheaper version of Niv-Mizzet would be interesting.

:1::u::r:
Creature - Tiny Dragon
Flying
Whenever a player draws a card, ~ deals 1 damage to him or her.
2/1

Ancestral Recall is now a blue Lightning Bolt!

[Phoenix Ignition]

:1::u::r:
Creature - Tiny Dragon
Flying
Whenever a player draws a card, ~ deals 1 damage to him or her.
2/1

Ancestral Recall is now a blue Lightning Bolt!

Seems interesting, but I'd like to see some black in the casting cost to go with all of the other cards that have the same effect (Underworld Dreams, Kederekt Parasite), and go along with the suicide theme black has.

Anything that makes my Tefari Puzzle Box's better is fine with me though. Would be funny to burn people for 7 or so a turn on turn 4 in a casual deck (even though it's coming back to me next turn).

[rockout]

Mana Leak Sucks
Mana Cost: U
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 3.

[santeria]

Mana Leak Sucks
Mana Cost: U
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 3.

I'd run the shit out of that.

[quicksilver]

Mana Leak Sucks
Mana Cost: U
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 3.

That would be so broken.

[MMogg]

Mana Leak Sucks
Mana Cost: U
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 3.

And make it a Mythic Rare. :wink:

[Ectoplasm]

I stand corrected. No good decks play counterspell.

*The* legacy controldeck isn't a good deck? :eek:

[quicksilver]

*The* legacy controldeck isn't a good deck? :eek:

correct

[puppektion]

Mana Leak Sucks
Mana Cost: U
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 3.

So... pretty much a 1 cc hard counter?

[Maveric78f]

In a more correctly templated way:

Can you explain how my template is wrong? I'd like to understand. For memory it was:

Players can't pay sacrifice costs.

If they can't pay, thay can't play. And "players can't sacrifice creatures" is dangerous in a very few MUs: ichorid (but if they can't sacrifice, they can't get zombies, so that's not realy a problem) and dreadnought. But it's a hoser for so many interactions, even in addition to fetches and wastes. It also comboes too easily with cards that are already good in themselves: dreadnought and shriekmaw to begin with.

Off my head a deck like this would probably be too strong:

4*jotun grunt
4*confidant
4*dreadnought
4*gilded drake
4*this creature

3*daze
4*FoW
4*brainstorm
4*Stifle
4*STP
3*Spellsnare/Spell Pierce

18*lands (even fetches if you wish)

[Pastorofmuppets]

Can you explain how my template is wrong? I'd like to understand. For memory it was:

Players can't pay sacrifice costs.

If they can't pay, thay can't play. And "players can't sacrifice creatures" is dangerous in a very few MUs: ichorid (but if they can't sacrifice, they can't get zombies, so that's not realy a problem) and dreadnought. But it's a hoser for so many interactions, even in addition to fetches and wastes. It also comboes too easily with cards that are already good in themselves: dreadnought and shriekmaw to begin with.

Off my head a deck like this would probably be too strong:

4*jotun grunt
4*confidant
4*dreadnought
4*gilded drake
4*this creature

3*daze
4*FoW
4*brainstorm
4*Stifle
4*STP
3*Spellsnare/Spell Pierce

18*lands (even fetches if you wish)
Bone Splinters might be good.

[Shawn]

Saccing a creature is part of Bone Splitter's cost, wouldn't that just prevent you from casting it?

[Nonex]

Symmetrical Counterspell :u:
Instant
Counter target spell you control and target spell you don't control.
Draw a card.

Vedalken Shackles 2.0 :3:
Artifact
You may choose not to untap Vedalken Shackles 2.0 during your untap step.
As Vedalken Shackles enters the battlefield, name a nonland card other than Vedalken Shackles 2.0.
T: Gain control of target creature for as long as you control a permanent with the chosen name and Vedalken Shackles 2.0 remains tapped.

Lifekeeper :2: :g:
Creature - Human Druid
Lifekeeper can't be countered.
Spells and abilities can't be countered.
At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice Lifekeeper unless you pay :1: :g: .
1/1

[Digital Devil]

I think it would be a great hoser - out of my head, it would hose: Wasteland, Fetchlands, Pridemage, NO, Dark Depths combo, Cabal Therapy, Pridemage, LED, Lotus Pedal, Dread Return (among other things)
Poor kitten. It would be hosed two times. I imagine the despair in its eyes: he would try to commit suicide but will not succeed because of that creature you posted.

[BreathWeapon]

Graverobber Faeries 1B

Creature - Faerie

Flash, Flying, Death Touch, Protection from Green and White

When Sanguine Faeries comes into play, Exile all creatures from all graveyards.

"...and a pony." - Nihil Credo

1/1

Mistborn Faeries 2U

Creature - Faerie

Flash, Split Second, Flying, Shroud

3/1

Knight of Twilight WB

Creature - Knight

Persist, Wither

Knight of Twilight's toughness is equal to the number of creatures in play, and it's power is equal to the number of creatures in all graveyards.

X/X

Mishra's Masterpiece X

Artifact Creature

Legendary, Sunburst: This creature comes into play with a +1/1 counter on it for each color used to pay its cost.

If R was spent to cast ~ it gains Haste, if W was spent to cast ~ it gains Vigilance, if U was spent to cast ~ it gains Flying, if B was spent to cast ~ it gains Lifelink, if G was spent to cast ~ it gains Persist and if (1) was spent to cast ~ it gains Indestructable.

X/X

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Graverobber Faeries 1B

Creature - Faerie

Flash, Flying, Death Touch, Protection from Green and White

When Sanguine Faeries comes into play, Exile all creatures from all graveyards.

1/1

Mistborn Faeries 2U

Creature - Faerie

Flash, Split Second, Flying, Shroud

3/1

Knight of Twilight WB

Creature - Knight

Persist, Wither

Knight of Twilight's toughness is equal to the number of creatures in play, and it's power is equal to the number of creatures in all graveyards.

X/X

Mishra's Masterpiece X

Artifact Creature

Legendary, Sunburst: This creature comes into play with a +1/1 counter on it for each color used to pay its cost.

If R was spent to cast ~ it gains Haste, if W was spent to cast ~ it gains Vigilance, if U was spent to cast ~ it gains Flying, if B was spent to cast ~ it gains Lifelink, if G was spent to cast ~ it gains Persist and if (1) was spent to cast ~ it gains Indestructable.

X/X

You really dont have a grasp on what balanced is do you?

[Digital Devil]

Knight of Twilight WB

Creature - Knight

Persist, Wither

Knight of Twilight's toughness is equal to the number of creatures in play, and it's power is equal to the number of creatures in all graveyards.

X/X
Knight of Twilight seems a cool name for a creature. I imagine something like this:

Knight of Twilight ---- :b::w:
Creature - Skeleton Knight

:w:, sacrifice Knight of Twilight: Destroy target creature with power 4 or greater
:b:, sacrifice Knight of Twilight: Target opponent discards a card at random from his or her hand

"I only remember the dead rising, and our best batallion destroyed in a blink. And... and... can y-you hear their la-laughter?"
2/2
I would have made it a Vampire Knight instead if it weren't for that freaking Edward Cullen. F**k, you are 400 years old and still go to school?

[rockout]

Graverobber Faeries 1B

Creature - Faerie

Flash, Flying, Death Touch, Protection from Green and White

When Sanguine Faeries comes into play, Exile all creatures from all graveyards.

1/1


You forgot first strike because nothing says insanely broken like first strike and deathtouch.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

Knight of Twilight seems a cool name for a creature.

I can't help but to pronounce that: "Kanigit of Twiligit"

Go away or I shall taunt you a second time.

[Pastorofmuppets]

You forgot first strike because nothing says insanely broken like first strike and deathtouch.

With flash.
That card already does so much more than Terror it isn't funny.

[BreathWeapon]

With flash.
That card already does so much more than Terror it isn't funny.

Ok, overboard on the Faerie:

Vampric Faeries 1B

Creature - Faerie Vampire

Flash, Flying and Death Touch

Whenever Vampiric Faeries leaves play, attach it to target creature. While Vampiric Faeries is attached to target creature, every time that creature would do damage you gain that much life instead.

So conditional spot removal that 2 for 1's on defense.

Also, another version of Knight of Twilight

Knight of Twilight W/B W/B

Creature - Knight

Death Touch

When Knight of Twilight leaves play, put a 1/1 Skeleton token with B: Regenerate into play.

2/2

or maybe,

Fell Knight BB

Creature - Knight

Death Touch, First Strike and Protection from White

[Forbiddian]

You really dont have a grasp on what balanced is do you?

QFT

[santeria]

if it weren't for that freaking Edward Cullen. F**k, you are 400 years old and still go to school?


dunno, if i was 400+ I'd want to slip it to high school girls.

[BreathWeapon]

QFT

Like Wizard's does either? It's pretty hard to design 2 drops that can stand up to Goyf and not be overpowered.

[Phoenix Ignition]

So it won't ever be printed, but I would personally love to see people running this:

:u:
Real Bribery
Instant
You may offer each opponent any amount of money.
If they take the money, you win the game.

It would sure as hell make for some fun tournaments. You'd run a crappy 4-of in your deck to hope to buy your way to the top, and if you're rich enough people will let you win... but is money worth more than DCI ranks to nerds?

If the opponent takes the money, you win. If he doesn't, your deck is worse.

[Hummingbird TG]

So it won't ever be printed, but I would personally love to see people running this:

:u:
Real Bribery
Instant
You may offer each opponent any amount of money.
If they take the money, you win the game.

It would sure as hell make for some fun tournaments. You'd run a crappy 4-of in your deck to hope to buy your way to the top, and if you're rich enough people will let you win... but is money worth more than DCI ranks to nerds?

If the opponent takes the money, you win. If he doesn't, your deck is worse.

You should phrase it as: "As an additional cost to play Real Bribery, you may offer each opponent any amount of money." This way they can counter it, take the money, and not lose (that works, right?).

[Maveric78f]

Mishra's Masterpiece X

Artifact Creature

Legendary, Sunburst: This creature comes into play with a +1/1 counter on it for each color used to pay its cost.

If R was spent to cast ~ it gains Haste, if W was spent to cast ~ it gains Vigilance, if U was spent to cast ~ it gains Flying, if B was spent to cast ~ it gains Lifelink, if G was spent to cast ~ it gains Persist and if (1) was spent to cast ~ it gains Indestructable.

X/X
So for UB, you have a 4/4 Flying, Lifelink. For UBG, you'll have a 6/6 Flying, Lifelink, Persist (which is dumb because it'll come back as a 0/0 creature with a -1/-1 counter).
For {1}, you have a 1/1 indestructible. For 1B, you have a 3/3 Lifelink, indestructible.

It'll be dodging krosan grip for {1}, it'll be dodging counterbalance. It does not hurt with Confidant. Gaddock Teeg does not prevent to play it.

Even ANT and goblin would play this card. Make it mythic and it'll be more expensive than a mox.

[Humphrey]

So for UB, you have a 4/4 Flying, Lifelink. For UBG, you'll have a 6/6 Flying, Lifelink, Persist (which is dumb because it'll come back as a 0/0 creature with a -1/-1 counter).
For {1}, you have a 1/1 indestructible. For 1B, you have a 3/3 Lifelink, indestructible.

It'll be dodging krosan grip for {1}, it'll be dodging counterbalance. It does not hurt with Confidant. Gaddock Teeg does not prevent to play it.

Even ANT and goblin would play this card. Make it mythic and it'll be more expensive than a mox.

Are we reading the same card?
or UB, you have a 2/2 Flying, Lifelink.
For UBG, you'll have a 3/3 Flying, Lifelink, Persist
For 1, you have a 0/0 indestructible.
For 1B, you have a 1/1 Lifelink, indestructible.

[MSC]

Hmm, still the Indestructible is a little overpowered. Maybe if we cut this and replace Persist with something usefull, like trample or Regeneration...
It would still be a great card...

[Maveric78f]

Are we reading the same card?
or UB, you have a 2/2 Flying, Lifelink.
For UBG, you'll have a 3/3 Flying, Lifelink, Persist
For 1, you have a 0/0 indestructible.
For 1B, you have a 1/1 Lifelink, indestructible.

It's X/X and it gains a counter +1/+1 per color used to pay. So we are not reading the same no.

[spirit of the wretch]

1RB

haste, lifelink, indestructable

5/5

Yeah, seems like a great card to print...

[Maveric78f]

If it was 0/0 instead of X/X and if it was something else than persist for green (can't be countered lol) though it would be a nice card. Maybe still too strong.

My favorite is 1BWU, 3/3 flying, lifelink, vigilance, indestructible. Or maybe just 1BW, gains 4 life per turn, blocks a creature and attacks for 2.