Looking for a new deck

[cthulhuclown]

I really enjoy playing R/U/B decks in legacy, but I play mainly casually.

Does anyone know of a R/U/B deck that would do even decently in legacy tournaments? I realize no mainstream legacy deck is those colors, but a list that is as close as it can be to good while still not being amazing would be awesome.

Money is not an issue.

If no one knows of a half-ass list, what's a good starting point based on the current decks out there to beat?

Thanks :)

[Jeff Kruchkow]

UBR Dreadstill?

[cthulhuclown]

Does such a thing exist? I was under the impression most dreadstill was green/blue/anothercolor?

[from Cairo]

I don't know of any established decks off hand, but those colors lend themselves well to Blue based control: Force of Will, Spell Snare, Brainstorm. With the abundance of agro in currently holding DTB status: Zoo, Goblins, Merfolk, I would probably pack include some combination of Firespout, Terminate and/or Lightning Bolt. You could build it in a Counter/Top shell to give you a stronger game against combo. Being 3 colors also gives you Engineered Explosives to answer troublesome Artifacts and Enchantments, as well as Creatures, but the first two are often hard for URB to answer (Academy Ruins could recur the EEs, while also getting back Grip'd Sensei's Tops). Depending on what manabase is best for your metagame, you could include Vedalken Shackles or Crucible of Worlds (+Mishra's Factory/Wasteland) or something to generate card advantage (these could also be protected/returned with Academy Ruins). Some of the cooler Evoke guys were in these colors too: Shriekmaw, Mulldrifter, Ingot Chewer (sb?) you could potentially work in some sort of Volrath's Stronghold recursion like the deck It's The Fear had.

I don't know, those ideas are sort of all over the place, but it seems like a doable Landstill / ITF spin off. You'd need to figure out a win condition and play around with what strategies synergize best, but it's a possible starting point anyway.

[cthulhuclown]

This is what I've been running with a small group of friends, and it has done really well, but I'm about 99% sure it'd get wrecked really hard in tournaments. It sounds at least somewhat similar to what you're talking about though, so, maybe a start:

Creatures
4 Grim Lavamancer


Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
3 Cunning Wish
2 Damnation
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Ice (Fire/Ice)
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Magma Jet
2 Terminate


Enchantments
4 Standstill
2 Zur's Weirding


Artifacts
4 Isochron Scepter


Lands
1 Academy Ruins
1 Graven Cairns
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Sunken Ruins
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Volcanic Island
1 Watery Grave Buy

Sideboard
2 Dralnu, Lich Lord
1 Echoing Truth
1 Evacuation
1 Extirpate
1 Ghostfire
1 Lightning Helix
1 Silence
2 Terminate
1 Wipe Away
4 Leyline of the Void

[cthulhuclown]

Does anyone have a basic shell for me to work with, or should I stick to what I have and change as needed?

[santeria]

Im not seeing the win cons, the mancer and the factories ?

[cthulhuclown]

Yeah. Mancers, factories, and usually a little burn or a scepter with burn on it. Scepter with burn and a zur's weirding tends to win me a lot of games, I don't think it would in tournaments.

[LostButSeeking]

Yeah. Mancers, factories, and usually a little burn or a scepter with burn on it. Scepter with burn and a zur's weirding tends to win me a lot of games, I don't think it would in tournaments.

What you seem to have built is UBr Landstill (as opposed to the more usual UWx Landstill), something people have toyed with since they printed Damnation (to replace Wrath of God). The problems, as I see them, are this.

You exchange:

Mainboard UWx
Swords to Plowshares (and now Path to Exile)
Elspeth
Decree of Justice
Eternal Dragon (not nearly as much of an issue)
Sideboard: Lifegain for burn, and disenchant effects

For
Mainboard UBr
Terminate
Hymn to Tourach

Everything else could be run under a standard UWr shell. (BTW, how do you cast your lightning helix in the sideboard?--I don't see a white source)

We'll consider the Swords ---> Terminate change to be a wash, even though I personally feel swords to be better. Aside from that change, you're exchanging the very powerful white win conditions for . . . things which don't win you the game. It might be interesting to see what you could make of another planeswalker--Liliana Vess or even Nicol Bolas (yes, I know he costs 8 mana--he wins games like nobody's business, and this is an experiment more than anything at this point) function in the same slot as elspeth.

a note on Some things that don't involve your color choices:
I don't really feel that Grim Lavamancer or isochron scepter really want to be in this deck. Isochron Scepter is a LOT of investment for a format in which Krosan Grip is legal, and what it nets you is nullified by your draw engine (standstill). Grim Lavamancer is a weenie . . . If you want a threat, there are better threats, and if you want a removal spell, there are better removal spells. Were I you, I would cut the lavamancers entirely, and either trade out the isochron scepters or the standstills. If you cut the standstills, go check out the Ultimate Walker thread in the established deck forum and look at their replacement in Ancestral Visions; it seems to be working well for them.


I think you could, if you wanted to, make a viable Landstill / Ultimate walker deck out of this, but it'll take some time and some testing. Have your friends proxy up some legacy decks like Zoo, counter top, canadian thresh and merfolk. Hope this goes well for you, and keep us updated--I love new decks as much as anyone.

[Di]

Here. (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=29971)

[cthulhuclown]

I'm aware it's not as good as UW(x) landstill, I am just trying to find any deck that fits the three colors I enjoy playing, and this is what I've been using.

Would it be too much of a pain to ask for a starting decklist to test and tweak? I have no idea how many of what you're talking about to run.

Thanks a lot for the response though this is good :)

Edit: That's a pretty cool faerie deck. Is that possible to tweak faeries out of though? Not horribly fond of them.

[Guevera59]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13847

[cthulhuclown]

Wow, that is really fucking cool. I think I'll try that. What kind of cards should I put into the deck you were talking about earlier though? I can figure the numbers out myself with testing.

[rockout]

I thought this was a pretty solid UBR list. Its called Tempo faeries and I think it won a tournament a month ago or so.

Mainboard:
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
4 Tombstalker
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Bitterblossom
4 Terminate
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
3 Fire / Ice
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
# 60


Sideboard:
3 Pyroblast
3 Hydroblast
4 Engineered Plague
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Relic of Progenitus

edit: Whoops di already posted it.

[cthulhuclown]

No big deal :)

I'm either running that wizard deck with some changes, or running UBR landstill weirdness. I would like to make use of nicol bolas, now that he sounds somewhat appealing.

[cthulhuclown]

http://essentialmagic.com/Decks/View.asp?ID=743756

What should my last for cards be, and what should I take out/add?

[Guevera59]

Zur's Weirding is terribad. Maybe put in some Fact or Fictions? I've also never been a fan of a Wishboard but that's a personal choice. I'd also try to fit in some Tombstalkers.

[Bryant Cook]

UBR Combo. (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=27714)

[rockout]

No big deal :)

I'm either running that wizard deck with some changes, or running UBR landstill weirdness. I would like to make use of nicol bolas, now that he sounds somewhat appealing.

My name is RockOut and I approve this message.

I've wanted to use Nicol Bolas Planeswalker in landstill for some time but never really got around to doing it. Good luck.

[cthulhuclown]

Here's the list I tested last night:

Spells
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm Buy
2 Cunning Wish
4 Fire (Fire/Ice)
4 Force of Will
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Terminate

Enchantments
2 Zur's Weirding

Artifacts
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Engineered Explosives

Lands
1 Academy Ruins
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Tolaria West
3 Underground Sea
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Volcanic Island
2 Wasteland

Planeswalkers
2 Jace Beleren
2 Liliana Vess
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker

Sideboard
1 Echoing Truth
1 Evacuation
4 Extirpate
1 Ghostfire
1 Swerve
1 Terminate
1 Vendetta
1 Wipe Away
4 Leyline of the Void


Against Canadian Thresh: 4-0
I was really surprised how well the list worked against thresh. First game was somewhat close, I won at 10 life, but managed to keep the board clear with academy ruins + explosives. I sealed the game with a hymn to tourach, followed by a zur's weirding. Opponent had no cards in hand, nothing threatening on the board, and could no longer draw while I had 3 factories to swing with every turn, and a Jace to accel my draw and circumvent Zur's to a level. Second game was even more brutal, as I sided in Leyline, and got it in my opening hand. He krosan gripped it later in the game, but the stall it created for werebear, mongoose, and goyf was too large, and I had enough board and hand to eliminate what threats were there before his graveyard got big, and won with nicol bolas and factories. Maze of Ith was not to be underestimated in this match. I got it 2 games, once it was wasted, but the other game it totally hosed a werebear, and later on a goyf.

Against Meathooks or Counter Sliver:: 3-2
First turn vial is brutal against my deck. I won first game with a first turn explosives with 1 counter on it, to stop vials. Biggest threat against my deck, as with thresh, was actually daze and grip, mainly grip because of factory and zur's. I finished the game up with liliana and factories, backed by more explosives. Second game I got rocked, as he got a first turn vial off and I was both force and explosive-less. He played crystalline sliver and the other baddies, and I only drew into a single explosive and no tolaria west/ruins, which he countered. In hindsight it might have been a better idea to stall until I could for sure play explosives, but, I'm new to the deck. Sideboard had really nothing to offer for this matchup, so perhaps eng plague is a consideration, though the more enchantments I add to the board, the less room cunning wish has. I won second game much like against thresh. I played liliana, made him discard down to 2 cards, and played a weirding, which was a risk but turned out alright as he was holding a land to pitch to liliana and a daze. I won with factories. Evacuation helped in this game if things got out of hand.

Against Boros Deck Wins: 4-0
Totally slammed this matchup! MVPs were cunning wish, fire/ice, and wastelands. Won with nicol bolas, he is truly a monster if he is actually played. Largest threat was path to exile on factories, as I am running no basic land, and a sideboard of Magus of the Moon was pretty rough too, but counterable/burnable. Zur's once again proved incredible, as having board control and my opponent having a low hand size meant assured victory.

I have yet to test more, I didn't have too much time last night. What I've noticed is my late game is monstrously powerful, but my early game is a bit weak, relying on hymn, terminate, fire/ice, and forces is a bit shaky. Perhaps spell snare should find its way somewhere in here. Deck also needs a heavily different sideboard, I didn't feel like it was helping much aside from Leyline against thresh.

Nicol Bolas and Liliana did wonders though. Keeping your opponent's hand at a small size, and then resurrecting all the creatures you've eng exploded and hymned and so on is excellent. She's also amazing as a consistent tutor engine, I can grab anything I need, whether that is wasteland or crucible or cunning wish or bolas. Bolas himself was great. I managed to play him at least once every set, as this deck has a good mana curve. He wrecks anything non-creature on the board immediately, which is awesome, then does it again, and if they cannot damage him the game is over.

Anyone got suggestions? Which decks would really wreck this one so I can test against them?

[Ectoplasm]

Break the format, design a working version of legacy control slaver with black for disruption.

[cthulhuclown]

I will be playtesting more this weekend, anyone know what I should add/remove before doing so, or which decks to playtest against?

[cthulhuclown]

Hello! I apologize in advance for the necro, but I already have 2 threads about my deck experimentation, and it's probably best I did not make a third.

I have been working on finding a UBR deck that is legacy viable for a few months now. I would like to play such a deck, even if it is not Tier 1.

The decks tried:

UBR Ultimate Walker
Bitterblossom Control

A brief, non-professional overview of what I found:

Ultimate Walker
1. Nicol Bolas is one bad mutha. If he hits the board the game is over 95% of the time.
2. Liliana is great with her second ability, but doesn't feel like a good replacement for the superior Ajani. Ajani has more control and a more succinct final ability.
3. Terminate is maybe not as good as swords, but still pretty good. There are a decent amount of moments where I wanted to swords instead, but also a good amount where terminate felt better.
4. This deck is very, very, incredibly slow, and has a very rocky early game.
5. I found the deck very one-track and boring because of that. Basically if you do not play Bolas or Liliana and get their ultimate off, you're not going to win.

Bitterblossom Control
1. This deck is fast while maintaining a decent end-game.
2. Probably the best of the 3 decks I tried in terms of consistency.
3. It wins mainly with creatures, and if that is disrupted without being countered, the deck loses easily.
4. No mass removal is tough.
5. Lots of fetchlands and bitterblossom make victories close occasionally.


That being said, the deck I've had the most fun with is UBR Scepter Control. I am simply having a hard time finding a good shell for it.

Current List:

Spells
4 Blightning
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
2 Cryptic Command
2 Cunning Wish
4 Fire/Ice
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Terminate

Enchantments
3 Bitterblossom
2 Zur's Weirding

Artifacts
4 Isochron Scepter

Lands
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Volcanic Island
1 Watery Grave

Planeswalkers
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker

Effective sideboard needed.

PROS:
1. Hymn and Blightning really hurt people early game, especially when following one another.
2. Most of the spells are scepterable, but not in there just for scepter, and are good on their own. This makes scepter great but not necessary every game.
3. Deck has pretty good tempo. Real hits and control start turn 2, and the deck has the power to last in the late game.
4. It's a very fun deck. It has a lot of hate, and the unconventional cards proved fun to play (I'm a Johnny/Spike).

CONS:
1. Force of Will is not in the deck, and there is generally not much countering.
2. Wasteland rips a huge asshole on my mana.
3. Krosan Grip is pretty fierce against scepter.
4. Damnation is usually in my sideboard, and sometimes the spot removal is not enough, but generally the discard is.

OTHER:
1. Zur's Weirding is a mixed bag. It really sucks to draw in the opening hand, and sucks to draw later in the game when you are on the ropes with your life and needing some direct hate. On the positive side, if I play Zur's and have board control with even just a factory and 1 point of life more than them, usually I can win the game. Dropping Zur's with a scepter that has fire/ice on it usually wins me the game as well, and dropping Zur with Bitterblossom is excellent. For the first few turns it will seem as though you are losing, but the cumulative attack of faeries every turn will quickly swing the win. I want to keep Zur's in just because it is a fun card that is very very effective if timed correctly.
2. The deck drops a lot to become UBR: swords, ajani, moat, elspeth are probably the biggest. In addition, most scepter decks are running more counter power than me. I decided to use black for disruption and lower the counter power, and usually this has worked, but obviously not all the time, force of will would really like to be in here. I feel what I gain from black in this deck from hymn, blightning, terminate, and bitterblossom are effective enough to replace the white counterparts, though have less utility making them a little less wieldy.

GOAL:
A competitive legacy deck that uses Zur's Wierding, Isochron Scepter, little to no creatures, and is UBR in color.


Now I'd like to see if anyone has any suggestions, bearing in mind that very concrete goal.

Thanks :)