[SCD] Vedalken Shackles-Playable?

[jazzykat]

So, as of late I've noticed the counter top decks (at least in the DTB) migrating from Vedalken Shackles and other 3cc guys to Rhox Warmonk and Vendilion Clique. I understand the Monk in aggro metas to throw in the way of Nacatls, Pridemages, and Kird Apes all day long, but what happened to Shackles, and why so much Clique?

[johanessen]

Shackles are too slow for the countertop deck that also runs basic forest or plains nowadays (with the new fetches). Rhox blocks the turn he comes. Also, Qasali Pridemage is easy answer to Shackles.

Vendillions plays another rol here, he is disruption/aggro version of rhox war monk. Depending on meta you should play one, other or both, but I think Rhox is more important atm with that much aggro.

[4eak]

Krosan Grip and Pridemage prevalence is a barrier to the viability of Shackles.
Shackles is a turn slower on defense.
Warmonk and Clique are much more useful against combo and other odd decks where Shackles' strength is conditional.
Goyf is just too big for Shackles to be usable
Shackles doesn't answer burn and Warmonk does.
Shackles belongs in dedicated control, and outside of Landstill (which just prefers to wipe the board), dedicated blue control is tier 2 at best. The format is defined by aggro-control, not dedicated control, so tempo cards like Monk and Clique will see more play.


That said, Shackles is playable for UG-goodstuff.dec, but it probably isn't optimal.


peace,
4eak

[Nightmare]

Surprise! I disagree.

Shackles is still a house.

[nitewolf9]

Shackles is still a house.

Although, please stop playing it so I can stop losing to it whenever someone drops it on me.

[Anusien]

Surprise! I disagree.

Shackles is still a house.
Shackles is still one of the easiest paths to victory in the CB mirror.

[Bardo]

At 5 mana, it's a late game card (even though you can spread the payment over a couple of turns). If you can grind the game out so that 5 mana answers are viable, rock on. When it's online, and assuming your opponent isn't going to burn you out, it totally dominates the board (except for Mongoose). The trick is living to that point.

As much as I love the card, I find it too slow time and again. Aggro-control decks are better off playing Sower which plays into their disrupt + attack strategy more effectively than Shackles.

Against Zoo and assorted Sligh-ish decks, RWM -- as janky as that fucker is -- gets the job done better.

Lastly, as with all SCD threads, it really depends on what you're playing and what you need your cards to do -- few cards are good in a vacuum.

[Shimi]

I play one copy in SB of my CounterTop , and when i need it( at late game) it usually gets a Goyf/Stalker and people are out of gas to answer it unless they top deck some Grip or Quasali.
Last weekend I stole a Quasali when my opponent was tapped out by daze effect so if you play it like a silver bullet it is still is viable.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I would say it's still a good card, just not right now. Countertop decks are the best choice to use it in (at least, at the moment), and they're being hated almost out of existence. The problem is that most people run answers to countertop, and those answers just so happen to blow up Shackles too. It's the same problem for trying to run something like Painter/grindstone right now, everyone just has answers to it because other decks run artifacts and enchantments that they need to blow up.

[nitewolf9]

The problem is that most people run answers to countertop, and those answers just so happen to blow up Shackles too.

This might be a benefit, actually. More Grips aimed at Shackles means less Grips aimed at Counterbalance/Top, and vice versa.

[Phoenix Ignition]

This might be a benefit, actually. More Grips aimed at Shackles means less Grips aimed at Counterbalance/Top, and vice versa.

But in general it isn't a good thing. The opponent chooses what to blow up, so if they don't care about your top they'll blow up your shackles. The meta has shifted towards Qasali Pridemage, so now people have a panic button to hit if you start controlling with either CB or Shackles. There are more cards that can blow up Enchantments/Artifacts, therefore the value of having an enchantment/artifact has gone down.

[Obfuscate Freely]

This might be a benefit, actually. More Grips aimed at Shackles means less Grips aimed at Counterbalance/Top, and vice versa.

I don't think this logic bears out. As it is, Shackles is already slow and cumbersome as a means of controlling the board. The fact that the card is impossible to protect from the most commonly-played artifact removal spell makes it an extremely risky investment whenever you are facing a less-than-favorable board state. Who cares that your future Counterbalance is more likely to stick if you're getting blown out now?

When the board state is more even, Shackles is a powerful win-condition, but most decks have more efficient, reliable, and versatile options for that - threats that come online for less mana and without needing you to have five Islands in play and your opponent to have a creature worth stealing.