Dredgestill (Bloodghast+Standstill+Dredge)

[Pastorofmuppets]

I love Bloodghast more than any man logically should. And he seems like he'd be great friends with Standstill. The first build I made, currently version 0.3, is too black-heavy to run FoW, leaving Countertop and Daze as the deck's only countermagic.

Bloodstill (black-heavy Dredgestill)

Creatures (14)
4 Bloodghast
3 Stinkweed Imp
2 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Trinket Mage
2 Ninja of the Deep Hours

Spells (12)
4 Daze
1 Darkblast
4 Stifle
3 Brainstorm

Enchantments (7)
3 Counterbalance
4 Standstill

Artifacts (5)
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 AEther Vial

Lands (22)
2 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
5 Swamp
5 Island

I know the list has problems. Most of those problems are with other Standstill-based decks, since it doesn't have the FoW power that the others have. I feel like the deck needs more Dredge power (It used to run Necroplasm). Thoughts?

[beastman]

I'd drop the one and two ofs, and try to go for more consistency. Also, you should show the mana base for the deck.

[nodahero]

Your deck needs to find a more streamlined plan... The synergies may be there but I defiently do not see much... I think your deck is trying to do way to many things at once.

[beastman]

It needs more manlands to operate efficiently under a standstill.

[Maveric78f]

needs more intuition, FoW, brainstorm, thoughtseize, cabal therapy, deed, life from the loam, stalker and less counterbalance, standstill, vials, stifle, trinket toolbox, etc...

[Pastorofmuppets]

needs more intuition, FoW, brainstorm, thoughtseize, cabal therapy, deed, life from the loam, stalker and less counterbalance, standstill, vials, stifle, trinket toolbox, etc...

Yeah, I'm working on a more blue-heavy version.
Also, why would you list Intuition before FoW?

[Mystical_Jackass]

I think you should take a gander at B/G Dark Depths, use that as sorta a model if you want to fit Landstill. It basically abuses bloodghast, cabal therapy, smallpox, etc. but you might pull some ideas off that. I've played against it quite a few times.. cabal therapy is just nuts in that deck


Now for Standstill.

I'd say you either need Loam or Crucible and far more man-lands. To be competetive I'd prolly wanna run the whole shebang, like 4 Factory, 3 muta, 2 Dark Depths (hex). On top of that I'd run Intuition to break it further, throwing more lands/bloodghasts into the graveyard. If you do choose to splash green you can SB Ground Seal. Also... *frowns( (might as well get it over with) you can run Goyf, especially if you dredge he gets really big so opponent prolly will have to answer him, drop Standstill and say go. Deed might be good too. These are just some ideas, however you juggle them is up to you lol


EDIT: Jesus Krikey, once again it seems I just repeated what Mav aleady said -.-

[Pastorofmuppets]

I've tried Depths/Vampire before and wasn't a fan. Takes up too many slots for my personal tastes.
What about Unearth creatures, specifically Grixis Slavedriver?

[4eak]

I really don't think this is where Ichorid will be going, but I did my best to put permission in the main for you. Not Dredgestill, but it does run permission within the dredge shell (which is sort of what you've implied you wanted). I think I've minimized the losses incurred switching from more traditional LEDless lists to this.

// Lands -- 15
4 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum
2 Verdant Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
2 [A] Underground Sea
1 [U] Volcanic Island
1 [U] Tropical Island
1 Dryad Arbor

// Discard+Draw -- 10
4 [TO] Putrid Imp
4 [OD] Careful Study
2 Brainstorm

[B]// Dredgers -- 11
4 [RAV] Golgari Grave-Troll
4 [DDC] Stinkweed Imp
3 [RAV] Darkblast

// GY-Goodies -- 16
3 [TO] Ichorid
4 [FUT] Narcomoeba
4 [FUT] Bridge from Below
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
1 [TSP] Dread Return

// Permission -- 8
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DD2] Daze

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NE] Reverent Silence
SB: 4 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
etc.

You certainly get some wtf's from your opponent's when you drop Daze and FoW on them from Dredge. Can't say I prefer this version at all, but it isn't boring.

It relies on more control components, 3 Darkblasts + 8 permission spells + 4 CT, so Brainstorm seems much better than Breakthrough here. Unfortunately, it is a very tightly packed list, so I couldn't even justify going to 4x on Brainstorm. You do have 18 blue spell count, and 10 islands. Tropical Island is really the important land for g2/3, as Grudge in the GY and Reverent Silence rely upon it. The arbor is in place of the 2nd Tropical Island, just on whimsy. The new fetches certainly made the manabase possible (although, I still am not as pleased with it as just plain CoB/Gemstone for stability).




peace,
4eak

[Mystical_Jackass]

Maybe in-between Ichorid & Landstill?

Bah... I dunno. To tell the truth I think this whole idea sounds kinda stupid. What advantage do you get dropping a standstill and having the ability to dredge 20 cards over the next several turns... 2 Bloodghasts in the yard?


Ichorid at least has a legit kill condition... and going non-dredge running Intuition, entomb and such is at least efficient and to the point without the ambiguity of just turning over half your deck for like very little advantage ya know. Sry

[Pastorofmuppets]

Any ideas for how I could maybe make room for Narcomoebas?

[4eak]

Finding room for Narco isn't the problem.

I think mixing Dredge and Standstill was doomed from the beginning. They have no place being in the same deck. They are antithetical. Standstill is about actually getting cards into your hand, and Dredge is about quickly getting cards into the graveyard (at the expense of your hand). Adding FoW is a possibility (remotely), but otherwise you've got a really watered down deck with very little synergy.

If you want a control version of Ichorid, I don't think you'll find much better than what I suggested. You can splash some control into Dredge, but you can't splash Dredge into other decks (outside of Loam, which is its own archetype). For Dredge to be effective, you need to use the lion's share of the deckslots for synergy and maintaining a consistent engine.

You've missed the heart and soul of Dredge by not even playing Bridge from Below. That is the money-maker. Narco's, Bloodghasts, Ichorids, etc. all exist to produce tokens.

Bloodghast in particular is a corner-card for Ichorid, and certainly not a part of the major cards I would be interested in playing in any condensed/hybridized version of the deck (assuming you want it to be competitive by any stretch). If you have a hard-on for Bloodghast + Blue + using some dredge mechanic (however slightly that might be), then you'll need to start from scratch (and scrap the landstill idea).

If you want Bloodghast to be the star in a blue heavy control shell, and not in a dedicated U-paradise/Dakmor Ichorid list, then your draw engine shouldn't be Standstill, it should be Loam. Here is where you start:

4x Bloodghast

4x Intuition
1x Loam

4x FoW

Intuition/Loam is the best draw engine you'll find for blue-based Bloodghast.dec, not standstill. Loam does your dredging and makes Intuition targets reanimate. Loam gets Bloodghast into the GY (and so does Intuition), and it gets you the lands you need to recur Bloodghast.

From here, I would add the obligatory:

4x Tarmogoyf
1x Eternal Witness

4x Brainstorm

4x Daze (Force your turn 3 Intuition through!)

1x Volrath's Stronghold
1-4x Mishra's Factory
1-4x Wasteland

Your late game will be outstanding, but I still don't think you'll live to see it against many decks. Dredge works because it makes blue cry and maintains a very good clock. Your deck doesn't make blue cry until much later in the game. Additionally, your clock is just going to be too slow. While Ichorid.dec is fast enough that it can afford to lower its speed for consistency and a better lategame, I don't think decks with more long-term sustained GY recursion plans, outside of Survival, which usually have slow starts and vulnerability to permission will be viable.




peace,
4eak

[Maveric78f]

I would go something like this (FoW seems too difficult to support):

Handle aggro: 12
3 Stinkweed Imp
4 Tarmo
3 Tombstalker
2 Darkblast

Combo: 11
4 Intuition
4 Bloodghast
3 Life From the Loam

Disruption: 12
4 Seize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Smallpox

Lands: 25
3 cyclers (2 black, 1 green)
4 wasteland
4 verdant catacombs
3 polluted delta
1 forest
2 swamps
4 bayou
2 underground sea
1 volrath's stronghold
1 The Tabernacle

Actually, I'm not sure about tarmogoyf.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Yea... I dunno. Its starting to look like a bad B/g Dark Depths. Only difference is like, hexmage and wish.


Okay this might be a crazier idea o.O

...But what if you used sorta a REPLENISH/BLOODGHAST shell form of dredge. You could incorporate Standstill into your gameplan that way. Bear with me, but thinking you could base it off the old Frantic Search/Attunement --> Replenish shell, maybe use....

4 careful study
4 attunement
4 sylvan library
3 standstill
4 bloodghast
4 Replenish

other ideas...
- energy field
- ground seal
- O ring
- Parallax [blank]
- Loam/Intuition/other dredge?
- Sigil of the Empty Throne
- Decree of Silence
- Seal of removal/primordium

Just a thought. The idea would be more of a G/U with a splash of white maybe

[Pastorofmuppets]

@ Jackass:
are there any enchantments that toss lands directly into play? that'd make replenish work a lot better with Bloodghast.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Oo... Good question.

Abundance would work amazing, especially with Standstill. I want 2 non-land... 1 land.. ty sir! :wink:

[johanessen]

I would go something like this (FoW seems too difficult to support):

Handle aggro: 12
3 Stinkweed Imp
4 Tarmo
3 Tombstalker
2 Darkblast

Combo: 11
4 Intuition
4 Bloodghast
3 Life From the Loam

Disruption: 12
4 Seize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Smallpox

Lands: 25
3 cyclers (2 black, 1 green)
4 wasteland
4 verdant catacombs
3 polluted delta
1 forest
2 swamps
4 bayou
2 underground sea
1 volrath's stronghold
1 The Tabernacle

Actually, I'm not sure about tarmogoyf.

No deed? No raven's crime? Why Smallpox over Innocent Blood?

I'd like to see some interaction too with Veteran explorer. Also i'd like academy ruins in here.

[potatofloss]

I just came across this on Deckcheck. It's a vintage deck, but I thought it seemed like a great starting point.

creature [12]
4 Bloodghast
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf

instant [3]
2 Darkblast
1 Vampiric Tutor

sorcery [15]
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
3 Smallpox
4 Thoughtseize

enchantment [1]
1 Seal of Primordium

artifact [8]
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
4 Null Rod

land [21]
4 Bayou
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
3 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wasteland
60 cards

[Mystical_Jackass]

Dude. If bazaar of baghdad was legal this deck would be easy! lol, unfortunately... :*{

I like my idea a lot, I think its pretty desc *waves own flag!* yea yea. But its like, if you're gonna dredge your library to use in combination with Standstill + Bloodghast, why not fit that gameplan into the rest of your deck, just "carefulstudy" through your library --> Replenish! /ThreadOwned

[Pastorofmuppets]

The deck seems to be faring well on MWS in all of it's variations, I just shut out Merfolk 3 times in a row (he was like "g3, please. I can't lose to this noob deck").
Also, on the subject of Tarmogoyf, the other day I imagined what Peter Griffin would sound like if he said it; and now I say it Tahma-goyf.

[Raptor]

I really don't think this is where Ichorid will be going, but I did my best to put permission in the main for you. Not Dredgestill, but it does run permission within the dredge shell (which is sort of what you've implied you wanted). I think I've minimized the losses incurred switching from more traditional LEDless lists to this.

// Lands -- 15
4 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum
2 Verdant Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
2 [A] Underground Sea
1 [U] Volcanic Island
1 [U] Tropical Island
1 Dryad Arbor

// Discard+Draw -- 10
4 [TO] Putrid Imp
4 [OD] Careful Study
2 Brainstorm

[B]// Dredgers -- 11
4 [RAV] Golgari Grave-Troll
4 [DDC] Stinkweed Imp
3 [RAV] Darkblast

// GY-Goodies -- 16
3 [TO] Ichorid
4 [FUT] Narcomoeba
4 [FUT] Bridge from Below
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
1 [TSP] Dread Return

// Permission -- 8
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DD2] Daze

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NE] Reverent Silence
SB: 4 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
etc.

You certainly get some wtf's from your opponent's when you drop Daze and FoW on them from Dredge. Can't say I prefer this version at all, but it isn't boring.

It relies on more control components, 3 Darkblasts + 8 permission spells + 4 CT, so Brainstorm seems much better than Breakthrough here. Unfortunately, it is a very tightly packed list, so I couldn't even justify going to 4x on Brainstorm. You do have 18 blue spell count, and 10 islands. Tropical Island is really the important land for g2/3, as Grudge in the GY and Reverent Silence rely upon it. The arbor is in place of the 2nd Tropical Island, just on whimsy. The new fetches certainly made the manabase possible (although, I still am not as pleased with it as just plain CoB/Gemstone for stability).




peace,
4eak

This list is really interesting.
But I would really run wonder. It could win games by itself for flying ichorid or flying golgari grave-troll.
Blooghast should probally be run over ichorid as well. Even though you don't have a lot of sacrifice effects, I don't think you have enough black creatures to support the ichorid. Running Gargeddon in side could probally be really nice considering you could sac your bloodghasts. Or I would switch the darkblast for the golgari thug.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Trying to wrench Pandeburst into Jackass's build. Any ideas?

[Pastorofmuppets]

man, Pandeburst is sweet in here. I've lost 1 game with it lined up as compared to the 4 games I've won with it set. The 1 I lost the guy had a fucking Behemoth Sledge.
It just feels goofy though.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Is Chains of Mephistopheles considered a win-more in here?
Better yet, who can afford to play Chains of Mephistopheles?