Terrageddon 2K9

[Atwa]

Hi,

While I was reading the SCD of Steppe Lynx a though occurred to me. Everyone was trying to fit it into an aggro shell (slight, boros, zoo), but those decks would need to depend on a lot of fetchland, and even then it's still a gamble how big the Lynx gets.

I was thinking about a deck which could play lands every turn and my thoughts went back to Terrageddon. I loved the deck when it was still played (before GP:Flash, after that Aggro Loam took over), and even the first deck I ever posted here on the source was a Terravore deck.

If we take a look at the original list, there were some great creatures on it which have simply become obsolete in the passing time, I name Wild Mongrel, Werebear. Still, I think the deck has potential.

Without further introduction, here is the list:
//25 land
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
1 Plains
3 Wasteland
1 Nantuko Monestry
4 Tranquil Thicket
2 Secluded Steppe
//21 creatures
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Eternal Witness
3 Terravore
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Geneses
1 Qasali Pridemage
//15 other
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Life from the Loam
3 Armageddon
2 Living Wish
2 Solitary Confinement
SB:
3 Krosan Grip
3 Null Rod
1 Armageddon
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Terravore
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Vexing Shusher
1 Wasteland
1 the Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

This deck's strategy is pretty straightforward, which is play some big dudes, play Armageddon so they can't make any more big dudes and kill them before they recover. Off course we have all sorts of extra little tricks to accomplish this, we have:
- Terravore/Knight + armageddon
- Terravore/Knight + Loam
- Goyf + Loam
- Wasteland + loam
- Genesis + Eternal Witness (+whatever you need)

The secret behind the deck is that it's not the most powerfull deck you'll play, but it is very synergistic. Besides. who doesn't love to beat face with creatures bigger than Prog or Dreadnought?

I've heard people claim I should splash for a 3th color, preferably red. I feel the deck should stay 2 colors personally, but I'm always open for a good discussion. I know Burning Wish opens to a lot of sideboard options, but I want to keep my strategy as straightforward as possible. Although I really like Hanni's suggestion of playing Natural Order in the wishboard and a Prog maindeck, since the deck doesn't play Mongrel anymore, drawing Prog would be really bad.

As for card selection, keep in mind I based this deck almost entirely in the list Hugo van Dijke used to win the 2007 Dutch Legacy Nationals with (click here for his report (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4524&highlight=terrageddon))

4 Tarmogoyf - Green? check. Grows when we dredge stuff? check. got 4 in binder? Check.
4 Bop - The original list played Llanowar so it could attack the second turn. Since we have Lynx now to fill that role, I prefer the bird.
3 Terravore - Since I wanted to try out Living Wish in this deck, I moved 1 to the side and replaced it with Knight
1 Knight - To replace the 4th Vore. I prefer Vore more in this deck, since it also grows from your opponent's graveyard, but the Knight gets ridiculous with a Lynx into play. Imagine a turn of fetch, forest, sac forest, find fetch, crack it for a forest, loam 2 fetchland and a waste (or a cycleland) back, attack with a 8/9 Lynx. For this reason also 1 in the wishboard.
3 Armageddon - only 3, since against some matchups it's simply not good, and with Lynx in the deck, we are less dependent on the card anyway. The 4th is in the side for when it is good :)
2 Solitary Confinement - The original list played 3 of them maindeck. I play 2 with 1 in the side to make room for Living Wish. This card is really good when you can pay it's upkeep (loam-engine or genesis).
2 Living Wish - Hanni's suggestion of Burning Wish made me think about this card. Burning has some more powerful targets, but this allows me to run 5 Vore, 3 Knight, 5 wasteland and gives me maindeck answers (besides Confinement) to Empty the Warrens and other fast swarming decks, without having to relly on burn.

Please post you opinions/suggestions.

[Skeggi]

Why Birds of Paradise over Noble Hierarch?

[Atwa]

Why Birds of Paradise over Noble Hierarch?

Noble Hierarch is actually a pretty good idea. I guess I didn't think about it since I don't own any :)

I will test it though

[leander?]

Hmm, I like the idea of retracing Terrageddon. It was my first competative Legacy deck when I started with serious Legacy back in '07. Still there are some questions that come to mind immediately..

1. The deck feels somehow outdated, will Lynx make it good enough to make a comeback and outclass GRb Aggro Loam, which clearly is the best Loambased deck.

2. What's up with the one ofs? 1 Pridemage, 1 Knight looks a bit random to me. I know you run wish but playing one ofs without tutors feels weird.]

Edit - Yes, Hierarch is far better than Birds in this. Didn't think of that either. Lots of Dutch people here, btw (Noth that strange, it's a Dutch deck). Why aren't you on BeneLegacy Atwa? Nederlands praten maakt het wat makkelijker..

[Atwa]

I'm not sure if it's better than Aggro Loam, I just made up the list and played a few games with it. I am going to try to bring the deck back though. I've tested the list too less to come to any conclusions, but I do know that Lynx can be sick in this deck. Even better than Goyf is.

I guess Hierarch is better indeed, but I like the fact that the Birds fly. Stopping a Hyppie or Tombstalker for a turn is sometimes better than dealing 1 more damage with an already ridiculously large creature. I am going to test it though, since I might be wrong.

As for the 1-offs, that is mostly caused by wish, which made me move a Vore to the side and I only had room for 1 Pridemage. The deck already plays 61 cards, but at this time I'm not sure what to cut from the list. Besides, I've got some good experiences with decks which packs some 1-offs. I know consistency is important, but being flexible is also worth something.

I've had more people invite me to benelux, but for some reason I've never applied there :) Being a member here for 4 years, I've never really felt the need to go to another forum. Besides, I almost play no magic irl anymore, so I don't have a need to be kept uptodate so much. I'll think about it though.

[Skeggi]

I guess Hierarch is better indeed, but I like the fact that the Birds fly. Stopping a Hyppie or Tombstalker for a turn is sometimes better than dealing 1 more damage with an already ridiculously large creature. I am going to test it though, since I might be wrong.
Don't forget, after all your big guys have recieved Swords to Plowshares or Path to Exile, Hierarch himself can deliver the final blow.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Don't forget, after all your big guys have recieved Swords to Plowshares or Path to Exile, Hierarch himself can deliver the final blow.

Not if he gets eaten by a Grizzly Bear!



Survival? Garruk? That's all I gots

[Darkenslight]

I'd consider splashing Red for two cards: Boom/Bust and the Wildfire trap.

[AngryTroll]

+1 on Hierarch over Birds.

Second...Where's Mox Diamond? On the one hand, there are a lot of Pridemagi running around, but that's a three mana investment for your opponent to nail your 0cc artifact.

Third, if you add Mox Diamond, your land count looks a little low. You are only running 8 lands you can fetch, 7 fetchlands, and 6 cycling lands. On the other hand, you have a lot of things that you want to play in the 3 and 4cc range.

Finally, Kitchen finks seems like a reasonable choice for this deck, because it lets you stall while you set up the Loam engine (slow and powerful).

[Aggro_zombies]

You know, I would almost rather run 3 Knight, 1 Terravore. The deck is vulnerable to graveyard hate as it is, but losing your biggest guy to Relic is a huge downer (and Crypts and Leylines can dramatically slow its growth, too). Knight will always be a 2/2 minimum that has a relevant ability. For example, if you're about to Armageddon, you can tap a land to pay for it, then activate Knight to find Flagstones of Trokair, which will die to Armageddon and get you another land. That's an additional +1/+1 to Knight over what you would have gotten with Terravore, and it leaves you with a land afterwards.

Furthermore, given the relatively low curves of the decks in this format, it may be best to run Trinisphere. Resolving Armageddon with 3sphere out basically guarantees you the win, since the opponent won't be able to do anything in time to stop you. Playing Geddon, only to have the opponent float a mana and then Swords/Path your Vore has got to hurt.

I would drop Monastery in favor of Ghost Quarter. Drawing extra lands out of your opponent's deck only makes your Armageddons that much harsher, and it can actually be good mana disruption with Loam against something like Merfolk. There's also corner case things that help (getting you out of a CB lock, for example).

Steppe Lynx really wants you to play Exploration, as does Armageddon. In a green-based deck without Chalice, Exploration allows for:

- Double Wastelands
- Wastelanding the opponent without setting back your development
- Double fetch for 8/9 Lynx
- Faster recovery post-Armageddon
- Quicker development against Zoo, Merfolk

Although, to be honest with you, Lynx just feels rather weak here, and is pretty easy to kill if you don't keep two fetches in play at all times.

[Hanni]

You should run Horizon Canopy. Whether you run it in addition to cycle lands or in replacement of, they are more synergistic with your deck. Horizon Canopy is a land drop for Steppe Lynx (cycle lands rarely are), and Horizon Canopy turns Knight of the Reliquary into a draw engine (once you have enough lands in play).

You really want Exploration also. Exploration is massive with Steppe Lynx, and is very strong at recovering from Armageddon's and Cataclysms, since you will have lands in hand after casting one, or you wouldn't have casted it in the first place (more often than not).

You also desperately want Cataclysm. When I played this deck quite a few months back, Cataclysm was stronger than Armageddon more often. Few decks have guys that rival the size of your own, so a 1 on 1 standoff is awesome, and it gives you crowd control against Zoo/Tribal.

I used to run a 3/2 split of Cataclysm/Armageddon, and I ran 4 Burning Wish maindeck with a 1/1 split of Cataclysm/Armageddon in the sideboard.

I'd highly recommend a light red splash for Burning Wish. That would be the only maindeck red card you'd run, but it's going to increase your consistency tremendously. Now you essentially have 7 Loam's (plus you cut 1 from the maindeck, so it's only costing you 3 spots). You also get access to your bombs more consistently (Cataclysm/Armageddon), as well as all sorts of other valuable utility spells. Firespout is a very strong sideboard card. You also have the option to run a single copy of Natural Order (and 1 maindeck Progenitus) to give you a combo-esque win condition against aggro, as well as a tutorable copy of Worm Harvest as a tutorable win condition against control.

Without tutor effects for Gigapede, I wouldn't run him.

Eternal Witness seems unecessary if you run Burning Wish.

The land tutoring of Living Wish seems unecessary with Knight of the Reliquary, and the creature tutoring aspect of Living Wish seems unecessary. Burning Wish is a much better tutor for this deck.

Solitary confinement is a damn fine card.

You want the full 4 Knight of the Reliquary, who is essentially your Countryside Crusher. What I mean is, he fills the same role in here, basically acting as a potentially huge beater that's also an engine card.

I'd consider running 4 Qasali's, since they are a very strong against the format right now (especially Aether Vial), and also happen to pre-emptively answer CounterTop from locking you out of your Loam engine.

I'll post an actual list of the direction I'd go once I get more time.

[purlqg]

What about Kor Haven as a one off? It has been quite nice in stax where i've been running the knight. It handles turn 2 naught and takes care of tombstalker and other flyers such as Iona and her friends..
I have been finding it hard to make room for all the cards I would like to fit in but this is what i've arrived at, im testing it this wednesday.

G/W/r Terrageddon

4x Tarmogoyf
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Qasali Pride Mage
4x Steppe Lynx

4x Exploration
4x Burning Wish
3x Life from the Loam
3x Cataclysm
2x Armageddon
1x Solitary Confinement

4x Windswept Heath
3x Savannah
3x Wasteland
2x Forest
3x Wooded Foothills
1x Secluded Steppes
3x Tranquil Thicket
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Kor Haven
1x Plains
1x Mountain
1x Taiga

Sb:
1x Solitary Confinement
1x Life from the Loam
1x Cataclysm
1x Armageddon
1x Worm Harvest
1x Hull Breach
1x Firespout
1x Morningtide
3x Krosan Grip
4x Pithing Needle

Don't know about the wishboard. Spout and clysm is oboiusly for tribal, worm harvest is a tutoreble win-con and morningtide is for ichorid, other loam decks (preferebly with terravore).

[eq.firemind]

Wow, just found this thread!
The deck was very fun to play back in the days.

I have a feeling that different :g::w:-based midrange decks are very underplayed and have serious potential. The only real problem is combo, but many established decks has that trouble too and combo is not very popular in most areas, so screw that.

I think the deck can stay :g::w: and still has access to all needed tools. I tried to do this via E-Tutor minitoolbox and here's what I recieved:

LANDS (25)
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Savannah
3 Horizon Canopy
3 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Kor Haven
1 Nomad Stadium
1 Flagstones of Trokair

1-DROPS (14)
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
4 Exploration
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Swords to Plowshares

2-DROPS (10)
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Sylvan Library
3 Life from the Loam

3-DROPS (8)
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Eternal Witness
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Solitary Confinement

4-DROPS (3)
3 Armageddon

SIDEBOARD
1 Choke
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Aura of Silence
1 Compost
3 Krosan Grip
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Vexing Shusher
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Duelling Grounds

The card selection/advantage from Witness and Library is major help, the toolbox helps with different troubles, Flagstones are good with Geddon and the deck has different ways to deal with different strategies, but as a trade has less raw power than decklists people posted here. That's just my playstyle (I'm DnT player), but it's good to see that such straightforward color combination can offer so many nice tricks.

[JudasKilled]

Noble Hierarch lets your goyfs beat theres and do dmg, far better, i dont even think its up for debate anymore.

I would splash blue. You have a few piles that could make your deck concistant instead of random.

Intuition seems the best option. Intuition for loam piles, witness piles even artifact piles if u toss in academy ruins. Seems best 2 me.

[Nelis]

4 Gaddock Teeg in your sideboard helps vs combo.

[eq.firemind]

4 Gaddock Teeg in your sideboard helps vs combo.
4 Teegs will increase your chances from 1% to maximum 30%.
Looks like 4 wasted SB slots for me...

[JudasKilled]

Your better off not boarding for combo, your gonna still be very likely to lose, just board 2 win your winnables

[asket5]

hi

this is/ was the list i played until august, but i know this was a bit too bad.

// Lands
2 [A] Savannah
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [ZEN] Plains
3 [ZEN] Forest
4 [TE] Wasteland
3 [ON] Tranquil Thicket
2 [ON] Secluded Steppe
3 [A] Bayou

// Creatures
4 [OD] Terravore
4 [OD] Nimble Mongoose
2 [FD] Eternal Witness
1 [JU] Genesis
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary

// Spells
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 [A] Armageddon
4 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
4 [AP] Pernicious Deed
//Sideboard
3 Krosan Grip
4 Orim's Chant
2 Null Rod
2 Tormod's Crypt
4 Engeneered Plague

today i want to play it again on a tournamet, but i need help.

first i will change the Wooded Foothills to Verdant Catacombs
the next thing i want to put in is Werebear, this guy was in may first list, now i want to play him again to be faster.
also i could play noble hierarch or birds but i think with threshhold the bear should be the choice.