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zabuza
11-12-2009, 11:52 AM
Since the printing of Boros swiftblade, lot of double strikers dudes have been printed. I love this mechanic and think that any deck which use it could be very powerful.

The very best double-strikers I´ve seen are:

Kor Duelist: 1CC Drop that have this nice ability if equipped. Since most of the great cards you can play in this deck are equipment it´s nice to have it. a 4 x

Boros Swiftblade: "CC2 Drop, a 1/2 with double strike is good enough for the deck. 4 x

Viashino Slaughtermaster: CC2 Drop, one colorless, can pump itself (although we probably never use this ability) with Double strike. A 4 x.

Warren instigator: CC2, a 1/1 that have doublestrike and play brothers from the hand (also play Hearthfire Hobgoblin, so it sounds scary ) 4 x

Hearthfire Hobgoblin : The big brother, a 2/2 for CC3 with doublestrike. I don´t know if it must be played but synergy with instigator make me include it.

Skyhunter Skirmisher: The Evasive brother. This guy flies over the opponent´s lines till his heart and kill him without mercy. A good boy too.

Well the deck I´m trying to build ties to exploit the double strike ability with another cards that make our dudes a kick on the opponent´s ass.

Cards which combine extremely good with our dudes are:

Quietus Spike: Our dudes will kill every creature without dying (because first strike ability) and if they hit the opponent once, then he is dead.

Umezawa´s Jitte: It can kill almost every creature on the board when is attached to one of our dudes and have counters on it. Beside of that can finish the game in one turn too.

Mask of memory: Our card advantage. We will be drawing five cards on a turn and discarding 2 of them. It sounds funny.

Adventuring Gear : Every land we play is a +4/+2 for our dudes (remember they have first strike), but if you play a fetch, then is a +8/+4 for them, for only the cost of playing a land. Well funny too.

Sword of fire and ice/ sword of light and shadow: well a +4/+2 with the bonus of dealing 4 direct damage and drawing 2 and protection from red/blue or a +4/+2 with gaining 6 life and recovering 2 dudes from the grave and protection from white/black. It´s wonderful.

Beside of equipment cards we have cards that combine extremely well with these dudes as:

Blazing shoal (if we can play any red card with great cost, call it greater gargadon, pyrokinesis or so) you can kill at instant speed if your dude is not blocked. I think it could be an option.

vines of the vastwood: This card is in the wrong color but give us shroud and a +8/+8 to one of our dudes so i think it could be included in the deck if we can support it.

Mother of runes: This little mom can protect any of our dudes from burn or so I think they are necessary.

Devoted Caretaker : Same than mom, but instead of the color prevents from instant and sorceries. Great, nobody kill creatures with other (ok, shriekmaw, but is not very common) or enchantments.

I suppose there is a lot of other options so please feel free to help me and give me any advice that could be helpful to develop the deck.

The initial list could be:

4 Arid Mesa
3 Windswepth heath
3 Wooded foothills
4 Plateaus
2 plains
2 Mountains
1 Savanah
1 Taiga

4 x Kor Duelist
4 x Boros Swiftblade
4 x Viashino Slaughtermaster
4 x Warren instigator
4 x Skyhunter Skirmisher
4 x Mother of runes
4 x Aether vial
3 x Quietus Spike
3 x Umezawa´s Jitte
2 x Mask of memory
4 x Adventuring Gear
2 x Sword of fire and ice
2 x Sword of light and shadow

Can you help me? ;)

Nidd
11-12-2009, 12:15 PM
How about Berserk?

zabuza
11-12-2009, 12:32 PM
I thougth about it, but it was a win more card sometimes and unuseful anothers. Beside of that, sometimes your dude is sworded, pathed or something in response to berserk so i prefer bonuses that remains on the game.

More ideas?

johanessen
11-12-2009, 01:26 PM
How about exalted guys?

rufus
11-12-2009, 01:27 PM
Another problem with Berserk is that it wants creatures with high attack to begin with. For most double strikers straight boost is better because they have low attack values.

To make double-strike work, you're basically stuck with:

Boros Swiftblade
Heartfire Hobgoblin
Springjack Knight
Viashino Slaughtermaster
Warren Instigator

And then some pump cards:

Akrasan Squire
Aven Squire
Jitte

And some uility..
Lightning Bolt
Fireblast
etc

It's still turn 3 finish at best, and can't be fit into any of the usual control-ish shells. Currently casual at best.

MSC
11-12-2009, 01:33 PM
The Deck has no Chance vs. Burn. Clasm and Firesprout kill the Deck. I suggest cutting a little on the Double-Striker and run at least 3 Soltari Priest (which has also good Evasion) and 4 Kitchen Finks.

hungryLIKEALION
11-12-2009, 01:52 PM
Bonesplittee. Seriously. Low cost, huge gains.

Media314r8
11-12-2009, 02:10 PM
// Lands
2 [MR] Plains (1)
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
1 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
1 [NE] Kor Haven
1 [P2] Mountain (3)
1 [ON] Windswept Heath
3 [ZEN] Teetering Peaks
4 [R] Plateau
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Kor Duelist
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [TSP] Serra Avenger
4 [HOP] Boros Swiftblade
4 [CFX] Viashino Slaughtermaster

// Spells
4 [R] Lightning Bolt
4 [DS] AEther Vial
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [ARE] Bonesplitter
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
2 [RAV] Lightning Helix

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 4 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 3 [FNM] Silver Knight
SB: 4 [SHM] Vexing Shusher

tested a little on MWS. Not convinced that the double strikers are justified over better utility creatures, but having a doubler striker connecting with jitte is usually SPL.

EDIT: I haven't tried him, but Kor Outfitter seems sexy as hell through the vial so you don't have to spend two turns equipping. Also helps recover from removal on equipped guys.

Pastorofmuppets
11-12-2009, 02:47 PM
I smell Rancor.

tpnp
11-12-2009, 03:12 PM
I've always been a fan of Grafted Wargear for equipment. Comes down for 3 and equips for 0 for +3/+2 - really solid on a double-striker. I'd rather spend my first two turns playing out creatures and then slap this on one of them.

pointofinfo
11-12-2009, 03:27 PM
I think the thing that is missing is some way to realistically beat other Legacy creatures. Having a 1-power double-striker isn't doing anything against a standard 4/5 Tarmogoyf, and is still only trading if you manage to resolve a Lightning Bolt against the Goyf first.

The deck would require some sort of threat diversity as well. The reason something like mono-green Stompy is unsuccessful is because its threats are identical, as is the case here. This deck is equally iced by an early Chalice of the Void at one or two. One takes out all of your protection, while two cuts out most of your significant creatures and Umezawa's Jitte. You are essentially left with a three-mana 1/1.

Red-white aggro has no draw engine (Mask of Memory filters starting turn 3, assuming you don't have better plays), and coupled with the lack of any protection from removal beside Mother of Runes, the deck is just annihilated when it runs out of gas. The combat potency of the deck is cute and all, but Adventuring Gear and Quietus Spike? That's living a dream that won't come true. Spending six mana to do pretty much nothing if you are really connecting like you want to + taking up space = cut Quietus Spike.

Also, you have no removal spells, but 16 pieces of equipment. All competitive decks, even to most dedicated combo decks, have access to some way to keep its life points. Aside from blocking, your build has none.

All that being said, here are my suggestions:
-4 Kor Duelist: He is an Eager Cadet, plain and simple. Your equipment is good enough not to put up with his lousy stats. Simply put in a better dude. Your best bets would be Wild Nacatl, Steppe Lynx, Skyshroud Elite, or even Isamaru.
-4 Viashino Slaughtermaster: His ability is non-existent for your build, so he is essentially a Goblin Piker. There are much better two drops to be had in an aggressive Legacy deck. To keep the colors the same, you have Keldon Marauders or Plated Geopede (if you keep the Landfall gimmick around) at the same cost. Since we are working with 10+ fetches, you could splash Dark Confidant to solve your draw problem.
-4 Skyhunter Skirmisher: A three-mana 2/1. Let's get practical here. A creature like this isn't doing anything for you because it swings on turn 4. Even with a SOFI, it still just trades with Tombstalker. Replace with Tarmogoyf.
-3 Quietus Spike: The cost is just way too high for the payoff. Great in EDH, but not for a Legacy event. Cut these for a one or two-CC creature.
-4 Adventuring Gear: Unless you want a landfall-based aggro deck, these things need to go. Replace with a removal spell. Lightning Helix, Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, and Swords to Plowshares are your choices.

4 Boros Swiftblade: If you are pushing the double strike theme, he's fine.
4 Warren Instigator: If you swap in 10 more Goblins, then this is okay. Otherwise, he's yet another Goblin Piker.
4 Mother of Runes: Mom is just okay in your build, where you want to just be throwing piles of dudes. Testing would show whether or not she is worth having around for those occasions where you can sneak in for some SOFI damage, etc.
4 Aether vial
3 Umezawa´s Jitte
2 Mask of memory: I might even suggest 3. Mask is your only means of keeping a steady flow of cards coming.
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Sword of Light and Shadow

tivadar
11-12-2009, 04:30 PM
I don't see how you argue Duelist is bad but Boros is good. This is going to be a deck that *relies* on equipment. If that's the case, then both Boros and Duelist are bad without equipment, and both are good with it. The one difference? Duelist costs 1 less to play.

I do agree that slaughtermaster is particularly bad however. I'd probably limit this deck to 2 colors and run Hearthfire Hobgoblin. Yes, he's 3 mana and doesn't let you use colorless, but he's a 4/2 and becomes even better with equipment.

Draener
11-13-2009, 11:09 AM
// Lands
2 [MR] Plains (1)
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
1 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
1 [NE] Kor Haven
1 [P2] Mountain (3)
1 [ON] Windswept Heath
3 [ZEN] Teetering Peaks
4 [R] Plateau
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Kor Duelist
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [TSP] Serra Avenger
4 [HOP] Boros Swiftblade
4 [CFX] Viashino Slaughtermaster

// Spells
4 [R] Lightning Bolt
4 [DS] AEther Vial
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [ARE] Bonesplitter
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
2 [RAV] Lightning Helix

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 4 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 3 [FNM] Silver Knight
SB: 4 [SHM] Vexing Shusher


My take on the list:

2 [MR] Plains (1)
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
1 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
1 [NE] Kor Haven
1 [P2] Mountain (3)
1 [ON] Windswept Heath
3 [ZEN] Teetering Peaks
4 [R] Plateau
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Kor Duelist
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [TSP] Serra Avenger
4 [HOP] Boros Swiftblade
4 [ZEN] Kor Outfitter

// Spells
4 [R] Lightning Bolt
4 [DS] AEther Vial
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [ARE] Bonesplitter
4 [ZEN] Brave the elements
2 [RAV] Lightning Helix


Brave the elements is amazing with all white creatures, and I can vouche that Kor outfitter is equally as awesome. I feel like the deck probably needs one or two more equipments, but I'm hard pressed to find where.

AlterEgo
11-13-2009, 02:32 PM
may I suggest Steelshaper's Gift?

Darkenslight
11-14-2009, 06:24 PM
I'd use ETutor over the Gift, for the ability to find Vials. Also, the Radiate spell which give protection seems strong instead of Brave the Elements.

slylie
11-14-2009, 07:36 PM
I'd use ETutor over the Gift, for the ability to find Vials. Also, the Radiate spell which give protection seems strong instead of Brave the Elements.

This deck has very little card draw already, and e tutoring a vial seems like a bad play.