[Deck] UW Tempo

[Vacrix]

Apparently UWT made it into finals of SCG Open in Richmond. I've stopped playing the deck, mainly because it was folding to BGW Survival advantage decks, and Vengevines were giving me stable steam of prize finishes.

UWT is still quite viable though and is actually okay vs U/G Survival (much less against GW though), so its no wonder it can make it into the finals (and hopefully win!). Even though I'm playing Survival myself, I'm anticipating the supposed upcomoning ban, since it would eliminate one of the toughest match ups.

Edit: watching the finals, god, how awfully he's playing :( Missing Wayfarer activations all over the place. And completely wasting Brainstorm. UWT really requires tight technical play in order to grind out all the advantage. Missing activations is bad, even if it doesn't really change outcome of the game. Needle, really? ETutor for Needle?! Needle is crap in this deck, for realz. Well G/W Survival is winning.

Edit2: The sudden Submerge, along with a bunch of G/W Survial player's mistakes saves the day! So its 1-1 now.

Edit3: Over in game3. Survival wins.
Another reason that people aren't playing UWT; people don't know how to play magic. This deck has a very blunt learning curve yet people can still fuck up something as simple as a Wayfarer activation. I'd say the deck is still quite viable if a suboptimal pilot can make it to the finals of an SCG.

[Verystrait42]

Yeah, I made it to the finals and couldn't close. Why does starcity call it UW Aggro?
and yeah, by the end of the day I was far too exhausted to play correctly.
The E-tutor board and especially needle were key all day for me against survival.

I lost to this fellow in first round Top 8, and I didnt feel it was a horrible matchup. Was playing U/G stock survival. Topdeck jitte was the decider of game 1, and game 2 opened a mull to 5 with 1 waste as the land. And as his friends reminded him before game 2, he has no outs to turn 1 Memnite ;)

[Forbiddian]

lol, I had to reset my password in order to make this post.


Primary reason for the thread not being the most-trafficked thread on the site: Jeff is banned and I have 2/3 warnings to a ban. It was way more fun when we could troll/countertroll and not worry about getting banned. After we stopped posting as much (and policing our threads by reporting troll posts instead of just trolling back), then trolls stopped posting.

Primary reason for the thread dying off: Jeff and I took a break from MTG. Just new stuff happened. He's doing grad school aps, but also had exams. Also, in the longer term, he's at Caltech instead of UCSD, which is obviously massively more difficult. He can no longer blow off studying to playtest 2 hours a day with me and still keep his whatever 3.98 or whatever he had at UCSD even though he was triple majoring.

In my life, my girlfriend moved in this year, and she doesn't really like me playing MTG. Not that she should have any say in my hobbies, but conversations like this suck:

"Hey, how'd it go?"
"Great! I got third and won 4 Wastelands."
"So you just won some more playing cards? No money?"

Proximately, Jeff and I are playing SC.


It's not really about UW Tempo becoming more or less competitive, though I'll note a lot of changes:

1) Goblins is finally completely gone. That was always a bye (at least 80%)
2) Canadian Threshold is finally completely gone. That was always a bye.
3) Merfolk is no longer a complete bye, because you can no longer STP (or threaten STP) them to keep them below the critical 2 lord threshold where Avenger can no longer lethally block with a Mom and Grunt can no longer clean-kill).
4) Storm combo was always a very good matchup (in excess of 70% for all combo)
5) Ichorid was always a pretty easy matchup when we had board space for it. As other decks started to move around, we took some of the dedicated Ichorid hate out, but we were still playtesting 75%.

Note that these matchups are now replaced by non-bye matchups.


This wouldn't normally do anything to affect the competitiveness of the deck, since Jeff and I would just make adjustments to beat the new metagame, but then Jeff and I aren't playing, so the base decklist beats a format that frankly doesn't exist anymore.


But I'm confident that with tweaks, it would be the best deck anyway. I mean, the deck was first competitive what? Three years ago?

When UW Tempo first came out, Goblins was THE deck to beat. People were just collectively figuring out that Daze was good (or in more theoretical terms, the format became tempo oriented and no longer rate-oriented) and that pure control was bad. The term "combo deck" was synonymous with Solidarity. Merfolk didn't exist, and control decks were like Legacy analogs to The Deck in Vintage.

UW Tempo, with changes, was the best deck Jeff or I knew about before and after Ichorid, Zoo, Merfolk, Ad Nauseam, Stax, Aggro Loam, Team America, that Stompy fad where people added Ancient Tomb to everything... (now I'm just stretching, I know, but I feel like I'm missing some great decks) entered the format. The basic concept of a Wayfarer raping you with Wastelands behind a wall of countermagia is pretty timeless.


If Survival gets banned in a few days (??), then UWT instantly becomes the best deck again. Right now, UWT is still a strong pick, but I think it needs some sideboard changes.

[PanderAlexander]

Nice, you're back, seeing you talk about the older meta I think you would've loved the tournaments this past weekend that you missed. The metas looked like we went back in time to agro loams, dredge, dreadstill, dragon stompy, with both tournaments no survival top 8 I believe.

[wcm8]

lol
If Survival gets banned in a few days (??), then UWT instantly becomes the best deck again. Right now, UWT is still a strong pick, but I think it needs some sideboard changes.

Well? Would be interested to see how this deck would evolve now that Survival is gone.

[Jonathan Alexander]

Well? Would be interested to see how this deck would evolve now that Survival is gone.

You can pick up the old lists again.

[Citrus-God]

So now that Survival is banned, let's discuss some old problems.

1. Merfolk having better threats.
2. Zoo.

With the first point, we know that they have replaced a set of Standstills for more Lords. Best way to solve this problem is to

1. Find a way to Survive.
2. Activate Jitte and simplify.

As for Zoo, we'll probably need to

1. Answer Lavamancer.
2. Answer big creatures.


With such a creature oriented format I propose that we try a side board that looks like

3 Relic of Progenitus!
3 Enlighten Tutor
2 Aura of Silence
1 Etherworth Canonist
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon?
1 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Wall of Omens!

The exclams after the names are my recommendations. Wall of Omens I have not tested against Merfolk yet, but I assume that it will be good enough to help stall so that you can find a jitte and dominate the board in that match up as well as gum up your side of the board. Also, the fact that it draws you a card for such an efficient cost and body works with this deck's tendency to be a control deck. As for the Zoo match up, I feel that 3 Relics and 4 Walls can easily make the post board games against Zoo easier to play. Relic is good against Zoo because it is efficient (you keep your opponent from gaining card and board advantage for the price of two mana and zero cards). Although it cuts off Mancers and Goyfs, it cuts off Knight of the Relinquary as well (which I believe can be superfluous, but the added benefit of being able to weaken Knight is a free perk that I will take). Walls will block Nacatls, Lynx and perhaps Goyfs all day while you make attempts to gum up the board with threats and find ways totake control of the game with Relics and Walls. I have played around ten games with that sideboard set up and won 7 of those post board games (lost three due to mana screws and mana floods). But seven is a good number for us... But a different list would be nice to play against. I feel like maybe the list could have been outdated.

So what do you guys think of this idea?

[Citrus-God]

So now that Survival is banned, let's discuss some old problems.

1. Merfolk having better threats.
2. Zoo.

With the first point, we know that they have replaced a set of Standstills for more Lords. Best way to solve this problem is to

1. Find a way to Survive.
2. Activate Jitte and simplify.

As for Zoo, we'll probably need to

1. Answer Lavamancer.
2. Answer big creatures.


With such a creature oriented format I propose that we try a side board that looks like

3 Relic of Progenitus!
3 Enlighten Tutor
2 Aura of Silence
1 Etherworth Canonist
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon?
1 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Wall of Omens!

The exclams after the names are my recommendations. Wall of Omens I have not tested against Merfolk yet, but I assume that it will be good enough to help stall so that you can find a jitte and dominate the board in that match up as well as gum up your side of the board. Also, the fact that it draws you a card for such an efficient cost and body works with this deck's tendency to be a control deck. As for the Zoo match up, I feel that 3 Relics and 4 Walls can easily make the post board games against Zoo easier to play. Relic is good against Zoo because it is efficient (you keep your opponent from gaining card and board advantage for the price of two mana and zero cards). Although it cuts off Mancers and Goyfs, it cuts off Knight of the Relinquary as well (which I believe can be superfluous, but the added benefit of being able to weaken Knight is a free perk that I will take). Walls will block Nacatls, Lynx and perhaps Goyfs all day while you make attempts to gum up the board with threats and find ways totake control of the game with Relics and Walls. I have played around ten games with that sideboard set up and won 7 of those post board games (lost three due to mana screws and mana floods). But seven is a good number for us... But a different list would be nice to play against. I feel like maybe the list could have been outdated.

So what do you guys think of this idea?

[forsmark]

While I feel this is a very strong deck, especially after the banning of survival. However as Citrus-God pointed out, I too feel the deck's greatest weakness is the lack of a good strong midgame threat, capable of answering the Zoo creatures (KoTR, Goyf, etc.). I have a strong feeling that Mirrodin Besieged will have a good card in store for us. Have anyone researched the option of Mirran Crusader (http://sales.starcitygames.com//carddisplay.php?product=230237) in the deck? It goes great with Jitte and blocks KoTR, Goyf, Nacatls all day long. It still dies to a lightning bolt or a STP. What do you guys think? Perhaps the :w::w: mana cost is much a hassle?

[Tinefol]

Wall of Omens would never work against Merfolk, simply because their biggest threats are Lord of Atlantis, Coralhelm Commander and Merfolk Sovereign. None of which it deals with. Nor it would against Zoo, since it is largely irrelevant against their creatures. We've already tested a 0/4 wall from WWK, and it was simply not making it. If you're looking for the wall that deals with big creatures, try Wall of Nets :)

Anyway, Merfolk was never a problem for the deck. I admit that Corallhelm Commander made things tougher, but it was never enough. By the way, it can be run in UWT too.

I've used to run a removal package of 2 PtE/2 Wing Shards in the board. Worked wonders against Zoo/Merfolk/any other tribal deck. If I'm that scared of big creatures and Merfolk, I'd simply run Retribution of the Meek.

Looking forward for Mirran Crusader. WW is non issue and it is formidable beater, even more so with a piece of equipment.

[Jay_Gatz]

In my experience Zoo is a bye with tempo, an active mother of runes is absolutely absurd. Postboard bring in Absolute Law and its nearly impossible to lose. As for merfolk just stick a mother of runes and keep your islands or their lord of atlanti off the table, dig for jitte or removal and your dudes will outclass their dudes especially serra avenger. I would never run Path in this deck, it counteracts the entire wayfarer engine.

[alderon666]

Wall of Omens would never work against Merfolk, simply because their biggest threats are Lord of Atlantis, Coralhelm Commander and Merfolk Sovereign. None of which it deals with. Nor it would against Zoo, since it is largely irrelevant against their creatures. We've already tested a 0/4 wall from WWK, and it was simply not making it. If you're looking for the wall that deals with big creatures, try Wall of Nets :)

Anyway, Merfolk was never a problem for the deck. I admit that Corallhelm Commander made things tougher, but it was never enough. By the way, it can be run in UWT too.

I've used to run a removal package of 2 PtE/2 Wing Shards in the board. Worked wonders against Zoo/Merfolk/any other tribal deck. If I'm that scared of big creatures and Merfolk, I'd simply run Retribution of the Meek.

Looking forward for Mirran Crusader. WW is non issue and it is formidable beater, even more so with a piece of equipment.

Meekstone get an honorable mention as it craps on Merfolks face after resolved.

[Tinefol]

Path is okay against Merfolk. You really only going to get their Mutavaults anyway. Its an S/B card and is evil, but necessary evil. Condemn worked far worse. I hated running PtE, but I guess that was the best card for what it did after StP. You never really boarded it in when Wayfarer lock was relevant.

Zoo was never a bye, since their ability to throw a bunch of removal and power through with big guys. Getting active mom was a problem, and active mom still could be dealt with when you had to block. The match up is still okay though, far better than Gw(b) survival is (or was, since its banned).
Absolute Law helped, true, since it really turned off most of their removal. Still, there's a reason Zoo runs QPM.

[Jay_Gatz]

With an active wayfarer you essentially have 7-8 hard counters against zoo which you mostly need to use on their removal. Keeping your creatures alive and blocking/using mom intelligently paired with the deck's dig power leaves zoo without a chance. Postboard you really only need to keep qpm off the table and you can't lose, even blowing dazes to keep it from activating it for a turn works.

[sclabman]

Jay_Gatz: Have you ever actually played the Zoo matchup? It's far from as easy as you make it out to be. Mother of Runes helps a lot but Zoo can quite simply overwhelm us while we're busy trying to equip Jitte and digging for another Mom.

[Jay_Gatz]

I haven't dropped a game to zoo in a tournament, and very rarely in testing.

[Uncoordinated]

I'm sure someone has mentioned this in the 89 pages of the thread, but has anyone tested Goldmeadow Harrier or Azorius Guildmage? They were mentioned in the thread over at MTGS. I'm mostly interested in Harrier, as it seems like something UWT would like to run.

Thoughts?

[Tinefol]

Harrier is a narrower Mother of Runes that requires mana to activate. Why run it, if you already have Mother of Runes? Guildmage is only marginally better than Grizzly Bear, and that fully speaks of it. If anything, the deck really needs a U/W version of KoTR. Mirran Crusader looks promising, but is still far from being as good as KoTR.

[Forbiddian]

I don't really miss not having a midgame beater. Jitte functions in a very similar role to KotR in other decks. UWT is not and has never been primarily an aggro deck. Its goal is to gain small advantages with all of its cards and never be caught out of position. A creature which costs 3 and doesn't have a CIP ability (uh, "ETB") leaves us open to losing board position against 1 mana removal or more expensive 2:1 removal.


Since Survival got the axe I'm wondering how the chips are going to fall. Hopefully somebody breaks Time Spiral (doesn't look too likely, but maybe). It would really shift the metagame if combo were no longer a Dark Horse and were suddenly a mainline contender.

Survival's main victims were midrange aggro and combo. I'm hoping that as those two decks flood back into the metagame void, we start to see combo dominating. The metagame is basically primed for someone to break Time Spiral, since the metagame is wildly unprepared right now, but the fact that Time Spiral sucks is going to be a deterrent.

[Anusien]

Survival was the best deck in the format against Merfolk which is the best deck in the format against combo. If combo didn't thrive in the era of Survival, I doubt conditions will ever be this good again.

[Jonathan Alexander]

This is not really true. But true is: Survival was good against Counterbalance and Counterbalance is good against Combo. UWT is quite good against both, Counterbalance and Combo.
I really think that the ban made the meta way better for UWT, but the real problem is still Zoo.

[Tinefol]

@Forbiddian well, KoTR, unlike the stupidness that is Goyf, has other uses, aside from being a beater. I've played GW Survival for a while, and KoTR won me a load of games where I haven't had Survival. The creature is extremely good and if it was in U/W colors I wouldn't really think another second.

[Forbiddian]

@Forbiddian well, KoTR, unlike the stupidness that is Goyf, has other uses, aside from being a beater. I've played GW Survival for a while, and KoTR won me a load of games where I haven't had Survival. The creature is extremely good and if it was in U/W colors I wouldn't really think another second.

If KotR were in the colors, then we would run him and probably change the deck's philosophy, but that doesn't mean that we're necessarily looking for a UW KotR or even an analagous midrange card to appear in a new set.

The real improvements would come if they printed a strong 4-of in the 2 casting cost slot. Looks like cool stuff is coming out in this next set, so I don't really feel like doing any testing until the new set comes out.


@ Metagame shifts: Combo was dormant under Survival because Survival was too strong. Combo doesn't usually appear on the scene as a strong contender with positive matchups down the board. Combo appears when there's a deck it can silver bullet, and the dominant deck wasn't forking games over. There weren't any decks in the metagame which combo could prey on with like an 80% matchup.

Survival beat Merfolk, but it also beat Ichorid, Zoo, slow control, Stax, Dragonstompy, yadda yadda.

[mattavell]

Has anyone tried a 1x vendilion clique instead of KotWO or sphinx? In my opinion it has some interesting qualities:
- a strong CIP ability;
- flash, witch is very useful in a tempo deck;
- it's a flyer that can carry jitte very well;
- it can auto-protect itself (if we remove a removal from opponent's hand);
- with karakas (if played) can permanently control opponent's hand;
- with karakas can sculpt OUR hand, like sphinx.

Sphinx seems to me very fragile...if removed with STP/P2E could create a nx1 for the opponent!

[alderon666]

Has anyone tried a 1x vendilion clique instead of KotWO or sphinx? In my opinion it has some interesting qualities:
- a strong CIP ability;
- flash, witch is very useful in a tempo deck;
- it's a flyer that can carry jitte very well;
- it can auto-protect itself (if we remove a removal from opponent's hand);
- with karakas (if played) can permanently control opponent's hand;
- with karakas can sculpt OUR hand, like sphinx.

Sphinx seems to me very fragile...if removed with STP/P2E could create a nx1 for the opponent!

And... it dies to Lightning Bolt.

Sphinx is there to block stuff and not trade. It also cycles lands and useless Jites.

[roioned]

You dont care about swords/PtE because you dont discard any cards that you need....

[Ryoku]

Has anyone tried a 1x vendilion clique instead of KotWO or sphinx? In my opinion it has some interesting qualities:
- a strong CIP ability;
- flash, witch is very useful in a tempo deck;
- it's a flyer that can carry jitte very well;
- it can auto-protect itself (if we remove a removal from opponent's hand);
- with karakas (if played) can permanently control opponent's hand;
- with karakas can sculpt OUR hand, like sphinx.

Sphinx seems to me very fragile...if removed with STP/P2E could create a nx1 for the opponent!

1: Strong, but not what we need. A one-of to try to disrupt the opponent's hand won't do a thing.
2: "Which" is spelled incorrectly. And our creatures do have flash... we have something called Aether Vial.
3: So you're asking to equip a 4 drop on a 3 drop? Seems slow. Also, you can do this on Sphinx as well.
4: Except that all removal in the format is instant speed, and we have Mother of Runes for protection.
5: We don't play Karkaras
6: See above, AND it still doesn't get rid of lands.

I think that pretty much sums it up. Please use the search function before posting-- this has been brought up several times before.

[colo]

I won our local weekly tournament today with UWT, beating Big Zoo 2-1, BR Vampire Aggro 2-0, Lands 2-1, and Punishing Threshold 2-1. I love the new old meta :)

[Jay_Gatz]

Congrats, mind posting a list?

[colo]

Thanks.

It's the agreed-upon maindeck list (excpet that I play a Sword of Fire and Ice over the second Jitte), with Vexing Sphinx and a lone Pithing Needle in the flex spots. I must confess I actually played the Needle mainboard by accident, seem to have mixed it up with the third Vial I usually play when I put the list together in a hurry the night before :D Turns out it saved my ass against Zoo (shutting off two Quasali Pridemages) and Lands (nerfing Ghost Quarter at a time when it'd have me screwed for good).

I expected a meta covering random jank, Rock, Enchantress, Storm Combo, Zoo, Threshold/Supreme Blue, Goblins, Burn, Dredge, Reanimator and Merfolk. Lands took me by surprise, we haven't had that for quite a while. My sideboard was:
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Aura of Silence
1 Chill
1 Propaganda
1 Aura Flux
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon

[mattavell]

@colo: congrats! Did you find you s/b effective, especially vs. zoo?

Personally, I'm testing a new side, that looks more to the zoo MU (the deck's worst MU, I think):

1 Jotun grunt
2 Enlighted tutor
1 Thorn of amethyst
1 Ethersworn canonist
1 Relic of progenitus
1 Wheel of sun and moon
2 Aura of silence
3 Perimeter captain
3 Submerge

....with the inclusion of the sphinx MD instead of vendilion in the flex slot (I must admit that, despite my initial reluctance, sphinx is better than vendilion in the deck's worst MUs)

With this one above I found myself not only with a major number of early answers vs. zoo (CP), but also with more answers (submerge) vs. big&annoying creatures such as KotR or Terravore in mid-late game (sometimes swords weren't enough, and "submerging" a creature in resp to a fetch or a KotR activation it's awesome!). The storm combo MU is certainly a bit more difficult with less answers in sideboard, but still playable, and I manage to find more zoos than storm combo decks in the new meta

P.s.: another card that I'm going to try for the s/b is Divert (in 2x can take SP's place post-side)...has anyone already tried it?
P.p.s.: sorry for my bad english, but it's a lot that I don't make practice :D

[colo]

Thanks. I think my sideboard would've been effective, though I did not need (or see, for that matter) much of it. I boarded in Forge-Tenders and Sword of Light and Shadow versus Zoo, but won on the back of Jitte both games (the first one preboard, however). I did not board anything versus the Vampire list, but just steamrolled it instead. The first lands-game I won was stolen by a Jotun Grunt off an Aether Vial to solve the Loam problem, whilst in the second game I let Exploration resolve but countered mana bond, and he was out of gas surprisnlgy soon. I did not even board anything against the Threshold list, just focused on getting rid of my opp's manabase, mostly ignoring a pesky 2/3 Tarmogoyf slowly chipping my life totals. I died to Jace's ultimate the game I lost, and nothing from my board could really have prevented that, I think.

[miro]

Played today in 27 ppl tournament with standard list.
Modifications : 3 Vial, 1 Vendilion, +1 Karakas, - 1 Arid Mesa
sb:
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Enlighted Tutor
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Aura of Silence
2 Wing Shards
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Absolute Law

1_round: Imperial Painter
First turn Magus vs Mom. Mom + equiped Morph win this for me.
Second game he muligans to five with no land drop. I played some spells & lands.
2:0
2_round : Enchanterss with L.Wish
Close game one win by equiped Avenger vs one enchantress effect + e.grass
Second game force his Mox, Waste his dual land, play Aura and win by Avenger + Canonist
2:0
3_round : Rock
No pressure from him allowed me to win by 2 x Avenger protected by some FoW/Pierce/Daze
Second game was close, but I stabilized board on 1 life thanks to 2 x unmorphed Seer and proceed to win
2:0
round 4 & 5 : ID

Top 8: UWb Landstill
Tough games. I loose 1-2, one punt involved.

Deck is AWSOME :) and wery well positioned in present meta
Thanks to creators!

P.S. Karakas + Cliques was metagameing against Sneak&Show but I like this configuration.
Absolute Law was wasted slot, prbly should be third Aura / second Needle

[TossUsToLions]

Hey everyone.

I really like how this deck looks, as it plays some of my favorite cards in Magic. I just don't understand why this deck isn't played much. It seems like Merfolk, but with better creatures and better card advantage and better removal. It plays the tempo role better than Folk too. I have a few questions about it though.

How is the matchup against the Rock, Counterbalance, and Merfolk?

Also, why are people not running a full playset of Vials?

[Jay_Gatz]

Its not played as much because it is more difficult to play and less well known than most decks, also tundras are getting harder to come by. Multiple vials are completely useless in this deck so we never want to see more than one.
In my experience rock and countertop are good match-ups as long as you don't play into firespout/deed. The modern merfolk builds with either 16 lords or swords are difficult for me but I built my board accordingly.

[roioned]

Hi I went today in FNM 3-1.I didnt know that there is some FNM....my friend just told me that he want to play some games so i just grab my deck and some of sideboard cards i think the number is 8 cards.I played classic decklist with 2 Vials 2 Sphinx.


ROUND 1:Bant with natural order 2-1

GAME 1:I won dice roll and mull to 6.It was pretty fast games beacuse I drew 3x serra avenger and they crushed him.
GAME 2:I mull to 6 again and kept hand with craps, because i was afraid of 5 cards...so my fault.He had fast jitte and jitte hurts us if we can´t find our jitte.
GAME 3:He mull to 4 and I had a perfect hand with swords,mother,daze......

ROUND 2:Merfolks 1:2

GAME 1:He won dice roll.He drew only creatures, land and Vial.Perfect draw-no need to say anything else.
GAME 2:I have in my 8 card sideboard 3 Condemn- so good for me :)I started with turn 1 mother of runes and it won me this game.My swords/condemns held lords of the table and mother had other creatures under control.When Serra and Jitte arrived it was GG
GAME 3:Mull to 4.....First hand only land wasteland.Second hand no land.Third hand only land wasteland.Does it need anything to say?

ROUND 3: Mono black pox 2:0
GAME 1: He discarded everything I had but I played Jitte and just waited for some creatures.
GAME 2: I mull to 6, but he had slow start.He killed everything I put in play.Again I had Jitte on table but no creatures.Key moment was when i dazed his tombstalker.....I sided in Relic of progenitus because of Nether spirits and Tombstalkers.I sacrificed Relic and after a couple of turns he play Tombstalker with no cards in graveyard and no mana left so I introduced him my Daze and we can shake our hands with my next draw Serra Avenger.

ROUND 4: Affinity with Galvanic Blast 2:0
GAME 1:I mull to 5 and he mull to 6.I started with turn 1 Mother of runes,turn 2 Jitte and turn 3 attack with equipped Mother.He had mana flood so it was pretty easy game.
GAME 2:I had a couple of swords and Aura of Silence and he had 3x Cranial plating and low number of creatures in play so I just remove his Ornithopter and Myr enforcer from play and drop Aura of Silence and it was GG.

I have pretty good feeling about this games except high number of mulligans but still I have no problems to win with less cards.

PS:Sorry for my bad english...

[Ironstickman]

Hi, just one quick question for those with experience with the deck. Why is Serra Avenger played instead of Silver Knight? I mean, pro red and first strike are attributes quite undervalued. With knight you give Goblins a real headache and its a problem for Zoo, while Merfolks will not overcome you unless they have LoA. First strike and pro red seem to work very well with equipment. Avenger on the other side dies easily to every piece of removal in the format, and despite having vigilance, it's a worse defensive creature than knight. Plus if you're playing MoM you can make Knight pseudo-inmortal since it won't get hit by path/swords either.

Thx.

[Koby]

Serra Avenger has evasion, which can't be said about Silver Knight. While it's true that Silver Knight is better against goblins, Serra Avenger is typically better overall against all other decks, particularly Tarmogoyf.

[sclabman]

With Mom, Avenger lets you dominate the combat step, attacking and blocking with impunity. Especially with Jitte out. Silver Knight is either offensive or defensive. Avenger is both.

[Herudaio]

Avenger also flies so let's easily turn on jitte/SoLS etc.
And still block.

Btw what you think of new needle on legs?
And white creature for artifact/enchantment removal?

[Scordata]

@Herudaio:
I've been looking at the new needle, Phyrexian Revoker, but I still think Pithing Needle is better.
Sure, he's a 2/1, but that means hes susceptible to MORE removal in the format, and I really want some more OOMPH for 2 CMC.
Pithing Needle doesn't get sent farming.

The new Qasali O-Ring may be OK with Aether Vial tricks, but as it stands I happen to feel that his inclusion in the Maindeck, or sideboard for that matter, is very narrow. Maybe in a Stax, or CBTop infested meta. And who the hell would want to play in that meta?

BTW, boys and girls, with the way the US's meta is panning out, at least in regards to the SCG 5k's, UW Tempo is extremely well poised at the moment. I think its high time to dust off my Fathom Seers.

[colo]

Being a creature (and an artifact) is both a boon and a liability in UW tempo, I'd say. You can shut down that annoying top after CB+Top have been assembled if you resolved a Vial before that, for instance. Also, Mother of Runes is a nice piece of protection for the lock piece (although it doesn't matter when we're talking about Krosan Grip). Not being able to target fetchlands is also a huge drawback in comparison to needle. I'm quite convinved that it's a strong card though. Might be worth considering for the flex slots.

[(nameless one)]

BTW, boys and girls, with the way the US's meta is panning out, at least in regards to the SCG 5k's, UW Tempo is extremely well poised at the moment. I think its high time to dust off my Fathom Seers.

This,

Zoo hasn't been putting up numbers in the SCG circuit. Its currently infested with board control, Merfolk and Goblins (which I believe are all good matchups). We saw a lot of Elves at the San Jose one but this deck can take care of that deck, right?

[miro]

Played yesterday in small tournament with : 3 Vial, 2 Mangara, +1 Karakas, - 1 Arid Mesa, -1 Wayfarer
sb:
2 Enlighted Tutor
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Aura of Silence
3 Path to Exile
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ghostly Prison

1_round: monoblack aggro with D.Depths
2:0
2_round : dark Zoo (Confidant + sb cards)
2:0
3_round : monored Goblins ( I stabilize in game3 with 2 Moms + Ghostly Prison + Needle on Siege-gang, but failed to draw Avenger before time was called)
1-1-1
4_round : Zoo (both games 2&3 he won with drawing extras from Sylvan Library)
1:2

Mangara :
Win me game one against Zoo when combined with Wasteland cut zoo from green
Removed opposite Jitte in round1

Zoo : Sylvan Library is must counter threat

[Guilan]

Hello there fellow experienced players of UW TEMPO deck!

I've been playing this deck for a bit and I always found it to be quite consistent. My friend, on the other hand, has been recently playing a rogue legacy deck -

Monoblack with Nevinyrral's Disk.

His deck list is rather unique I dare say.

My deck is the optimal standard build, with a few modifications in the SB

2 [MI] Plains (3)
1 [MI] Island (4)
4 [B] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [TE] Wasteland
3 [ON] Windswept Heath

// Creatures
4 [CHP] Serra Avenger
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer
1 [ALA] Knight of the White Orchid
1 [CS] Jotun Grunt
4 [TSP] Fathom Seer
2 Stoneforge Mystiq

// Spells
3 [NE] Daze
2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DS] AEther Vial
3 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 1 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 3 [LRW] Burrenton Forge-Tender
SB: 1 [WL] Aura of Silence
SB: 3 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Wing Shards
1 Swords to Plowshares


Here's a brief list of his deck.

Creatures
4 Black Knight (ugh)
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Vampire Nighthawk

Spells
4 Cry of Contrition
4 Diabolic Edict
4 Skeletal Scrying
4 Unearth (cycling)
3 or 4 Smother
2 or 3 Damnation
3 or 4 Cremate

Lands 22 or 23 lands
2 or 3 Spawning Pool
4 Wasteland
Swamps and Fetchlands

His sb consists in

Jittes, Extirpates and Nevinyrral's Disk, Bad Moon, alongside with Lilliana Vess and Sorin Markov. (he always manages to land a lilianna and fetches sorin) =\

I know this may be a silly.dec but the interation between Cry of Contrition and Ravenous Rats, backed up by Unearth is obscene. I have to keep up with creatures especiallly Jotun Grunt if I want to beat him quick. His Black Knight tends to win fights in his favor.

What is a good side besides Sword of Light and Shadow against his deck? Sooner or Later I will be ending up against him in our local tourneys.

I want to add some percentage to win against him since my ratio is 40% in my favor.

[Karhumies]

@ Guilan: seems like these are the most problematic cards of your friend:



Creatures
4 Black Knight (ugh)

Spells
4 Skeletal Scrying
2 or 3 Damnation

sb

... Jittes, Nevinyrral's Disk

Against Black Knight: Jitte counters, Mother of Runes gives Prot. Black to Morphed Fathom Seer-> Knight dies, SB Wing Shards. No additional slots needed IMO.

Sketal Crying and Damnation: These need to be countered, but the opposing discard effects are trying to make it as hard as possible to counter them. If you think "Wrath-effects" are getting popular in your meta (not just this one guy), you may consider running more "hard counters" in your SB and take out some of the "tax counters" after sideboarding. While tax counters combined with light mana denial are normally the heart of the tempo aspect in this deck, they're not very useful if the opponent runs all-basics and attempts to cast Damnation around tax counters. That, and try not to overextend your board position versus a deck which is so light on creatures & runs MD Damnation.

SB Jitte will break your Jitte, so running another equipment in SB (preferably 1-of; can not see why you would need 2 slots) may become feasible. If Prot.Black is powerful in your meta, you can take your pick from Light and Shadow vs. Feast and Famine (the new Prot. BG sword) based on what else there is in the meta.

SB Nevinyrral's Disk: SB E.Tutor-> Pithing Needle seems to do the trick. Has he even got anything to remove an active Needle from the board?

Planeswalkers: See the previous notes about hard counters/prot. black/Pithing Needle. Any combination of those works.

[five]

What do you guys think of Leonin Relic-Warder and Phyrexian Revoker as possible sideboard fodder for U/W Tempo? I like how they can Vialed in @ 2, protected by Mom, and equipped with a Jitte. Those are all advantages over Aura of Silence and Pithing Needle. Aura is better with the Etutor package for sure, but Relic-Warder can be Vialed in at instant speed. Aura is also better against combo, Enchantress, Affinity etc, but it costs one more to cast. So Aura vs. Relic-Warder is debatable, but I can't see any reason to play Needle over Revoker in this deck. The Revoker is almost strictly better for the reasons I mentioned above. The fact that Revoker can't hit lands would be pretty irrelivant in U/W Tempo anyways :wink:

[Guilan]

@ Guilan: seems like these are the most problematic cards of your friend:



Against Black Knight: Jitte counters, Mother of Runes gives Prot. Black to Morphed Fathom Seer-> Knight dies, SB Wing Shards. No additional slots needed IMO.

Sketal Crying and Damnation: These need to be countered, but the opposing discard effects are trying to make it as hard as possible to counter them. If you think "Wrath-effects" are getting popular in your meta (not just this one guy), you may consider running more "hard counters" in your SB and take out some of the "tax counters" after sideboarding. While tax counters combined with light mana denial are normally the heart of the tempo aspect in this deck, they're not very useful if the opponent runs all-basics and attempts to cast Damnation around tax counters. That, and try not to overextend your board position versus a deck which is so light on creatures & runs MD Damnation.

SB Jitte will break your Jitte, so running another equipment in SB (preferably 1-of; can not see why you would need 2 slots) may become feasible. If Prot.Black is powerful in your meta, you can take your pick from Light and Shadow vs. Feast and Famine (the new Prot. BG sword) based on what else there is in the meta.

SB Nevinyrral's Disk: SB E.Tutor-> Pithing Needle seems to do the trick. Has he even got anything to remove an active Needle from the board?

Planeswalkers: See the previous notes about hard counters/prot. black/Pithing Needle. Any combination of those works.

thank you so much for the help.

I was going to add in my sb a single pithing needle, but it seems that I need to play around with hard counters and avoid overextendance. (xD)



@guy above

Aura of Silence improves our Combo Matchup, while it has a nice bonus of getting rid of enemy juttes. What's not to love?

[Karhumies]

@ Guilan: I can't tell how serious you were with your post. I did indeed recommend you to run a SB Pithing Needle versus Nev's Disk + Planeswalkers. However, an opposing Damnation needs to either be countered or turned into a more reasonable 1:1 or 2:1 by slow-rolling our creatures (when there are no counters available), since we are a combat-based deck when it comes to our win conditions.

Supposing that the opponent is running 7 problematic card advantage cards (4 Skeletal Scrying, 3 Damnation) and plays them around Daze, we only have 6 MD answers: 4x Force of Will (which still gives card advantage to the opponent) + 2x Spell Pierce (which can still be played around in the end game if the opponent plays all-basics instead of fetches + duals). Supposing ceteribus paribus, the opponent has a more-than-decent chance of winning the pre-SB card advantage fight. And despite the name "UW Tempo" becoming established, our deck is - in practise - very much about establishing card advantage, long-run games and statistical averages.

[colo]

I managed to win yesterday's weekly tournament (11 players attending) 3-0, beating Merfolk 2-0, Bant Aggro 2-0, and another Merfolk 2-0. My singleton mainboard Pithing Needle once again proved very worthwhile, winning me the last game of the tournament: My starting hand was Tundra, Fetchland, Vial, Pithing Needle, Mother of Runes, Daze and something I don't remember, and my opponent opened with a Vial. I played a vial of mine and passed. Next turn he upped his to one, vialed in a Cursecatcher and landed a _second_ vial. No worries on my side though; I just went on to up my vial as well, used it to beam down Mother of Runes, and landed my Pithing Needle - naming Aether Vial, quite obviously, to seriously hamper his engine. Turns out he was very light on actual mana, and in the end, a singleton Serra Avenger flew in for the win. The other merfolk games were major beatings due to Sword of Fire and Ice (which I run mainboard alongside a singleton Umezawa's Jitte). I won against Bant due to Umezawa's Jitte and massive card-advantage thanks to Wayfarer game one, and triple Mother of Runes game two, which enabled me to alpha-strike with a pro-green Jotun Grunt on the fourth extra-turn (:D) after I've been chipping away on his life totals with a Serra Avenger for many turns in a row. The game took that long because his duo of Quasali Pridemages kept me off of Jitte which I had held in hand for the better part of the game, and three teensy 2/3 Tarmogoyfs weren't particularly good at scaring me or my life totals in a serious manner. I did not change the mainboard against the Merfolk builds at all, and boarded +1 Relic of Progenitus, +3 Submerge, -2 Fathom Seer, -1 Sword of Fire and Ice, -1 Pithing Needle.

It's been a great ride, and I'm looking forward to next week, though I'll probably try something new for a change :)

[Guilan]

@ Guilan: I can't tell how serious you were with your post. I did indeed recommend you to run a SB Pithing Needle versus Nev's Disk + Planeswalkers. However, an opposing Damnation needs to either be countered or turned into a more reasonable 1:1 or 2:1 by slow-rolling our creatures (when there are no counters available), since we are a combat-based deck when it comes to our win conditions.

Supposing that the opponent is running 7 problematic card advantage cards (4 Skeletal Scrying, 3 Damnation) and plays them around Daze, we only have 6 MD answers: 4x Force of Will (which still gives card advantage to the opponent) + 2x Spell Pierce (which can still be played around in the end game if the opponent plays all-basics instead of fetches + duals). Supposing ceteribus paribus, the opponent has a more-than-decent chance of winning the pre-SB card advantage fight. And despite the name "UW Tempo" becoming established, our deck is - in practise - very much about establishing card advantage, long-run games and statistical averages.

I understand your point. I was considering running extra copies of spell pierce. I have also considered Spell Snare. The new ivory mask (leyline of sanctity) is a strong card which improves his matchup, too, But I'm afraid that I will end loosing to goblins if I manage to stretch my sb a bit further.

Anyways thanks for the help

[Uncoordinated]

If only Phyrexian Revoker had a big ass like Fathom Seer. As it is, I am going to try him out as a one-of in my sideboard. It's tutorable and right where we want him on the mana curve for Vial.

My board looks like:

3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Aura of Silence
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Spell Pierce
1 Jotun Grunt


Just wondering: What does everyone else's sideboard look like, and for what metagame?

[colo]

Won another local tournament yesterday, facing 4C CB-Top (1-1), Blue Myr Jank (2-0), Dredge (2-1) and 4C CB-Top (2-1). I'm not running any cards from the latest set yet, as I wasn't even aware that the cards were already legal ;)

My sideboard was the following:
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Aura of Silence
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Propaganda
1 Aura Flux
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 slots I can't recall right now.

Our meta is known to boast CB-Top variants, Goblins, Merfolk, Dream Halls/Temple Bell combo, Enchantress, Lands, Rock, Burn, Belcher, ... pretty much everything, really, with a notable absence of Zoo and Storm Combo as of late.

[Uncoordinated]

I like Revoker. Even though I would never run Needle, the fact that he has a body makes up for it. The most common use I've found for him is shutting off Pridemage in Zoo/Bant/GnT, but there's never a shortage of targets for him. He's also colourless which has been strangely important for me - I've been running into a lot of Moms lately. Got to shut off some fancy mana abilities yesterday too. Haven't tried it against ANT/TES/combo yet, but I imagine shutting off LED would be pretty nice.

How is the Propaganda working out for you, Colo? Do you ever have problems casting it? I have tried switching it but I've found that I never want to pitch it to Force when I have it, and I assume Prison was there originally because we want to be able to stick to white as much as possible. Also, you mentioned that you had Submerge in your board on the last page. I really would like more spot removal, but I haven't found a good alternative yet.

[colo]

I'm running Propaganda instead of Ghostly Prison to increase my post-board blue count. I never got to use it yet, so maybe it's a good call changing it for something that matters more.

The three slots were allocated to
1 Chill (awesome, turns burn - which is indeed a not-so-sweet matchup at all - into a bye once resolved)
1 Engineered Explosives (to deal with tokens, mostly)
1 ...orrrr, I cannot believe I forgot again! It was another tutor target, though it lapsed my memory _again_.

I decided not to pack Submerge last time, as I never felt tempted to board it in when I had it.

[Star|Scream]

I'm running Propaganda instead of Ghostly Prison to increase my post-board blue count. I never got to use it yet, so maybe it's a good call changing it for something that matters more.

The three slots were allocated to
1 Chill (awesome, turns burn - which is indeed a not-so-sweet matchup at all - into a bye once resolved)
1 Engineered Explosives (to deal with tokens, mostly)
1 ...orrrr, I cannot believe I forgot again! It was another tutor target, though it lapsed my memory _again_.

I decided not to pack Submerge last time, as I never felt tempted to board it in when I had it.

I kind of like the prison since it can't be REB

[colo]

The 15th card in my sideboard was Serenity, by the way.

[azador]

I've been reading the source for quite a while, but this is my first time posting. I took U/W Tempo to a local tourney today for the first time and won it, going 6-0. (4-0 in the swiss, break to top 4).
I've been piecing the deck together, and this morning decided I would play it if I could borrow some tundras and strands. Thankfully, my friend wasn't going to need them, so I got to take a break from playing Lands.dec.

My list I ran with,

// Lands - 17
--------------------
2 Plains
1 Island
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland
1 Polluted Delta
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats

// Creatures - 21
-----------------------
4 Serra Avenger
4 Mother of Runes
4 Weathered Wayfarer
2 Vexing Sphinx
4 Fathom Seer
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Ethersworn Canonist

// Spells - 22
-------------------------
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte

// Sideboard
-----------------------
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Aura of Silence
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Pyrexian Revoker
1 Jotun Grunt
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2 Hibernation
2 Submerge
1 Spell Pierce

First, let me say that I know the Ethersworn in the main is really random. But I was letting another friend borrow two of my vials, and it seemed better than a third pierce. Additionally, I knew that at least two of the best players there would be playing elf combo and SI, so it was also something of a meta call. Further, the lack of gravehate in the board is due to the only graveyard deck around here being my lands deck that was sitting in my bag.

Anyway, a short report, I didn't take notes.

R1 vs a random g/b ramp deck with lots of basics
G1 I dazed a couple early rampant growths, he played a couple birds of paradise, I stuck a mom, serra, and then jitte. The game was over in short order.
Sideboard -2 vial - 2 Pierce +2 Hibernation +2 Submerge
G2 I played 3 wayfarers, a mom, and a stoneforge for a jitte while he played ramp spells. It was not close.
Kinda felt bad playing against him with and actual deck. But it is what it is, we're friends, we smack talked and had fun with it, so it's all good.

R2 vs Deadguy
G1 I keep a hand with x2 tundra, mom, daze, jitte, serra, fathom seer on the draw. He opens with thoughtseize, takes mom. Then proceeds to runner runner wastelands on my tundras while I draw lots of sphinxes. At least it was over quick.
Board -2 Vial +1 Revoker +1 Jotun Grunt (I kept in the pierces because I was afraid of thoughtseize, and grunt seemed good because he's bigger than all my opponents creatures.)
G2 I pierce his seize, play a wayfarer, and waste him out of the game by putting them on the bottom with grunt. At some point he plays a pithing needle naming Jitte, making the one in my hand very sad. But it didn't make much difference as I attacked his empty board.
G3 I play a wayfarer, force his swords on it, and then play my revoker, naming vial. In a few turns the revoker has a jitte on it with a mom watching over him, and the game ends in short order. As my opponent kept the "1 land and a vial" hand and didn't draw a second land until far too late.

R3 vs Elf Combo
G1 She mulls to 4. It wasn't a very exciting game. She scooped as soon as I pierced her glimpse.
Board -2 Vial -2 Pierce -2 Daze +1 Ethersworn +1 Revoker +2 Submerge +2 Hibernation
G2 She opens with turn 0 x2 Leyline of lifeforce. The force in my hand is very sad. I don't remember a whole lot of this game other than her casting shaman to destroy a Jitte at some point, and me casting hibernation with her swing for lethal. The look on her face was priceless. That slowed her down enough for serra and sphinx to get there.

R4 vs SI
G1 I know what he's playing so I mull to six to find a force hand because I lost the die roll (every time, gotta love it). He attempts to go off, I force his cruel bargain, and his cruel bargain the following turn finds no gas. So I just manage to pull the win by attacking with a sphinx for a few turns.
Board -2 Vial -4 Swords -1 Wayfarer +1 Ethersworn +1 Revoker +2 E. Tutor +1 Thorn +1 Aura of Silence +1 Peirce
G2 We both mull to six, he plays a carpet of flowers. Awkward... I do nothing. He then plays around daze, going bayou, petal, xantid swarm. I don't have force, having kept a peirce, daze, thorn, ethersworn, x2 land hand. Things are looking bad. I play the thorn, which earns me a grimace. he makes a chrome mox. I get another land, play the ethersworn. He again does nothing. I play and equip my topdecked jitte and start doming him. I plays a belcher. I crack for as much as I can... He belchers me for... 15. I hit him for lethal. Way too close.

Top 4
R1 vs Mono blue merfolk.
He wanted to go home, had something or other to do. So he left. I get the win. I'll take it i suppose.

R2 vs SI (same guy)
G1 I win the die roll. Keep my seven. Pierce his land grant, as the bayou would have killed me dead to a rather large teldrills. The next turn he laughs as he draws his bayou, plays it, and then stops laughing when I force his draw four. Get my turn, waste his bayou and play a mom. He plays draw-go for a few turns while i get in there with mom beats. Eventually I get a stoneforge, suit her up, and he just can't draw anything other than rituals.
Board same as before
G2 He leads with duress, taking force. I force him to use up a petal to pay for daze on his xantid swarm the next turn. Stick a mother of runes the turn after, followed by a revoker naming Goblin Charbelcher. He has no way to win other that draw 2 of his natures claims. He only draws 1 before dieing to hatebear beats.

I had a lot of fun with the deck, the interactions between the cards felt so powerful. I know I never mentioned the card in the report, but fathom seer was the MVP of the day for sure, finding me jitte's, forces, keeping sphinx alive, and having a huge butt.

I'd love to hear some input from some more experienced U/W Tempo players on my list, my board, and what I boarded for the matchups, and whatever else comes to your minds.

Thanks for reading.

[Karhumies]

I'd love to hear some input from some more experienced U/W Tempo players on my list, my board, and what I boarded for the matchups, and whatever else comes to your minds.

Thanks for reading.

Thanks for the report and congrats on your finish!

MD Jötun Grunt (instead of Daze #4 and Canonist) is not only for gy hate: it will also help against creature-based decks to stabilize in the mid-game. Particularly against Tarmogoyf, Tombstalker and Grim Lavamancer, but also Knight of the Reliquary and Terravore. Especially against Zoo and Zoo-like decks, Canonist + 4th Daze seems strictly worse, but if you know your meta well enough, you can make meta calls.

Phyrexian Revoker seems like an excellent SB addition to this deck, as Mom can protect it. Nice find. :)

Llawan is expensive in mana and narrow. Merfolk can play around it with AEther Vial. Although I guess it does provide an out against Progenitus, but you already have Hibernation against that. Depending on the meta, I might still rather play Wing Shards over both. Submerge is there for...what exactly? Wouldn't 2x Condemn or 1x Karakas accomplish kind of the same thing, with the additional benefit of bouncing Emrakul? Anyways, I would like to see 1x Relic of Progenitus on the board versus Tarmogoyfs and Terravores even if there are no gy-based strategies (Life from the Loam, Dredge, Welder-animator) in the meta.

[azador]

Thanks for the report and congrats on your finish!

MD Jötun Grunt (instead of Daze #4 and Canonist) is not only for gy hate: it will also help against creature-based decks to stabilize in the mid-game. Particularly against Tarmogoyf, Tombstalker and Grim Lavamancer, but also Knight of the Reliquary and Terravore. Especially against Zoo and Zoo-like decks, Canonist + 4th Daze seems strictly worse, but if you know your meta well enough, you can make meta calls.

Phyrexian Revoker seems like an excellent SB addition to this deck, as Mom can protect it. Nice find. :)

Llawan is expensive in mana and narrow. Merfolk can play around it with AEther Vial. Although I guess it does provide an out against Progenitus, but you already have Hibernation against that. Depending on the meta, I might still rather play Wing Shards over both. Submerge is there for...what exactly? Wouldn't 2x Condemn or 1x Karakas accomplish kind of the same thing, with the additional benefit of bouncing Emrakul? Anyways, I would like to see 1x Relic of Progenitus on the board versus Tarmogoyfs and Terravores even if there are no gy-based strategies (Life from the Loam, Dredge, Welder-animator) in the meta.

Thanks for your input. The Canonist was a meta call for sure, she would be a grunt if I was going into a large tourney or a blind meta. I knew that there would be a max of 1 goyf/knight deck in the room, and at least 2 fast combo. I love me some jotun grunt though, don't get me wrong. People around here just don't like turning big green monsters sideways very much.
I personally really like the 4th daze, but I'm totally open to trying different things. What would you recommend in the slot, vial? Grunt? Knight of the white orchid? Maybe a Vendillion Clique? (upping blue count and yet another evasive, beater).

I agree, Revoker is nuts. Both of my oponents I played him against had a few choice words to say about it. :)

Llawan is expensive and narrow, I agree 100%. I just wanted a miser card against merfolk, and really had no idea what else to play. What's a good card against them that's less narrow? Hibernation is a nod to my elf-obsessed friends. Submerge was there just in case people showed up with Knights and goyfs, as submerging knight in response to her activation feels awesome. It ended up being irrelevent, as I didn't play the one rock player. I've never liked bringing in relics against goyfs, which is another reason for the submerges. I'd rather timewalk them or just send the pesky thing farming. But if that is something this deck needs to do just say so, as I don't really have any experience on the matter.

I didn't even think of wing shards, I'll try it out, thanks. I love Karakas, and would deffinetly play it if anyone was going to be rocking show and tell. See, the thing is, here in northern Nevada is that all us legacy players know each other, help eachother brew, test together, go to events together. So we all know each other's 75. It's a small community right now, but growing.

I guess my point is that my sideboard was really a meta thing, a "I guess I'll just play this card" thing, and a "I'm not losing to combo" thing as well. If I decided to play the deck at say a 5k or a gp the board would certainly be different.

I'm loving casting fathom seers again, and would like to get better at it. So thanks again for the input.

Has anyone done much testing with the new Relic Warden out of besieged? He seems really good on paper.

[Karhumies]

Llawan is expensive and narrow, I agree 100%. I just wanted a miser card against merfolk, and really had no idea what else to play. What's a good card against them that's less narrow?

In a larger meta against an opponent unfamiliar with the UW Tempo deck, morphing a Fathom Seer before declare blockers to "nullify" the opposing islandwalk is priceless (even though it's a once-only per opponent, ever). Other than that, Phyrexian Revoker or Pithing Needle for AEther Vial/Jitte/Pokémon fish (depending on what they actually have on the table) goes a long way in the MU, as they don't really bounce anything. You'd be surprised at how many fish players go with 1 land hands, if they have a Vial or 2 in their opening 7...
If you keep your island count in check (preferably at 0), the pokémon should be your primary concern if the opponent does not run Jitte. As in if nothing on their side flies, you are free to beat face with S.Avenger. Wing Shards can also help, but it doesn't get that much storm count. Some people have even run SB Condemn for this MU, but basically any instant removal can screw their combat math.

One of the most important things is to keep their lord count low, so that you can kill while blocking with mom + avenger (preferable), or at least mom + jötun (cutting close).

My sideboarding would probably be
-4 Wayfarer (assuming they have mono-U with high Island count)
+1 P.Needle
+1 P.Revoker
+2 Wing Shards

with possibly
-2 S.Pierce on the draw (not many targets for this against 20 lord build if going 2nd)
+1 Propaganda / Ghostly Prison
+1 Jötun Grunt or yet another creature removal spell

[Tinefol]

Don't side out all Wayfarers. You still need to be able to get rid of Mutavaults and sometimes, of your own Tundras. Spell Pierce is a sure go.
Prison isn't too appealing either.

[Uncoordinated]

If you're really having trouble against Merfolk, I would either swap out a maindeck Jitte for SoFI or put it in the board somewhere. It's certainly not as versatile as Jitte, but it's got it's own benefits. The extra mana hurts a lot in some cases, though.


I have read through almost all of the pages in this thread, and didn't see much discussion on Coralhelm Commander as an alternative 2cc beater He's yet another mana sink in this very mana-hungry deck, but he's got some nice perks to make up for it. Honestly, it doesn't take much to level this guy up, especially with a typical three Vial list. His double U casting cost is the main factor holding him back, I think.

He may look like a dumb, inefficient beater but I'm finding evasion to be more and more important to squeeze through some early damage and make vialed Grunts with Mom backup that much more scary mid or late game. He has a decent body and pitches to Force. I'm suggesting him is because I really think the deck would benefit from a solid two drop to help it curve out a little better. One that can come down early and stick around. Since more than half the two drops can't be Vialed in whenever ( Grunt, Seer ), it's really up to Mom to stall and then pray for an angel to save us. You could argue that Grunt and Seer can be used in a pinch in that fashion, but really we're not getting the most use out of them if we just drop them to stem the bleeding early on. UW Tempo is all about grinding out that CA from our critters. Honestly, I have just been looking for Avengers 5 - 6 to put in here, but I cannot find a strong alternative. CC is currently being tested with -1 Sphinx -1 Avenger. Not sure whether cutting Avenger is the right choice. Perhaps Vial?

[Telekinesis]

I've been trying out Vexing Sphinx, how exactly do you use him properly? I'm assuming he comes down mid-late game when you have a few dead cards like extra Stoneforges, Vials, and Jittes, but is he only supposed to stick around for two turns? Or do you try to keep him for three?

[colo]

There's no golden rule for that. Last time I resolved Sphinx on turn 3 against Dredge, I gladly chose not to turn her sideways even a single time, removing all my opponent's four Bridge from Below in exchange for my 4/4 flier. That's a good deal in my book. In general, I try get to attack with Sphinx at least twice. That's 8 damage done, 3 cards discarded, and 3 cards drawn. If I need to squeeze in some extra damage, and there's no exiling removal in sight, I very well may be having more, and longer, fun with her.

[Karhumies]

I've been trying out Vexing Sphinx, how exactly do you use him properly?

He's versatile:
1 full turn (0 payments) - 1UU: Buy one turn if the opponent does not wish to engage a 4/4 flying blocker. Destroy opposing Bridges, if there are any. Draw a card. ("fog-like" real cantrip)
2 full turns (1 payment) - 1UU: Buy two turns, as described above. Discard a card. Then draw two cards. // 4 damage to target player, provided there are no blockers with flying. Discard a card. Then draw two cards. ("cantrip", but improves card quality)
3 full turns (2 payments) - 1UU: 8 damage to target player, provided there are no blockers with flying. Discard three cards. Then draw three cards. (-1 card, so basically 8 damage for 1UU, which is nice + improves card quality)

But he's generally not worth the 4th turn, unless the opponent is down to 4 or less life and you think you will be able to connect once more ftw.
4 full turns (3 payments) - 1UU: 12 damage to target player, provided there are no blockers with flying. Discard seven cards. Then draw four cards. (-4 cards=yikes.)


The decision between 2nd and 3rd turn depends on a lot of factors:
-can the +4 damage (attack) or +1 turn (threaten to block) on the 3rd turn make a difference?
-are there still dead or semi-dead cards to pitch? (marginal cost of cards in hand versus expected average revenue of unknown cards from library)
-what is the likelihood that your opponent has been reserving an exile-effect to turn your Sphinx into a -4 card advantage in his favor during the combat of the 3rd turn? Can you prevent this from happening, or did you just pitch the relevant counters out of idiocy in the upkeep?

[Telekinesis]

Ah, I forgot that you add a counter first before saccing it. That definitely makes him a lot better.

[claudio.r]

Sine we are already playing Stoneforge mystic, as anyone thought about including a copy of bonehoard ?

It's a fetchable creature with mystic, can be played as an instant, it's only countered by stifle type effects and stays in the battlefield as an equipment after the opponent deals with with the germ token. Normally a pretty big one too...

[Star|Scream]

Seems like dis-synergy with Grunt, would be difficult to hard-cast, and what do you take out to make room?

[Star|Scream]

Just looking for some insight here.

You are on the draw

game goes:

t1 nonbasic, 1 drop
t1 tundra, ww
t2 nonbasic, 2 drop
t2:

Do you activate ww during your upkeep? Do you get a wasteland, fetch, or tundra? What decks would change this strategy? I realize it changes by what's in your hand, deck you're facing, etc. However, I'm asking for general guidelines of when it's better to disrupt your opponent's turn 3 vs. developing your own board.

[colo]

In general, I try to get the most cards(lands) out of Wayfarer as humanly possible. I rarely tutor for dual lands or basics directly, unless my opponent is packing Stifle, and I desperately need the mana asap. This not only heightens the chance of drawing actual spells in your draw step, but you can also activate Wayfarer again in response to activating fetchland. Wasteland is probably my primary target with Warefarers, as the in-response-to-my-fetchland-I-activate-Wayfarer-feat works here as well, and there's plenty of targets there.

If it's your opponent's second turn and you're already in shit too deep to make use of your primary card advantage engine because of two dudes on your opp's side, chances are you already fubared things anyway (that's what you got those Dazes and Forces for).

Depending on my opponent's one- and two-drop (I'll assume they're not Golin Lackey or anything else that's as threatening - if they just dumped out a 1/2 Tarmogoyf, yeah, that's perfectly fine with me and I'll gladly ignore that sucker unless my life totals call for a change of heart), I'd either
o) draw a card and activate Wayfarer in my main phase if I'm not seeing enough land to keep me in the game.
o) activate wayfarer in my upkeep (fetching wasteland), reducing my chance to topdeck another land in turn, and then decide about my actual landdrop if I'm holding another colored-mana-providing land in hand before I draw.

[from Cairo]

Do you activate ww during your upkeep? Do you get a wasteland, fetch, or tundra? What decks would change this strategy? I realize it changes by what's in your hand, deck you're facing, etc. However, I'm asking for general guidelines of when it's better to disrupt your opponent's turn 3 vs. developing your own board.

Described game state is REALLY vague. You're against Zoo? Facing down Nacatl + Pridemage? You're against Goblins? Facing Lackey + MWM? Are the "1 and 2 drops" even creatures? Top + Counterbalance? Do you have some removal? Some way to dig for removal? One of your x/4 guys that might be able to help stall?

The deck can be a bit of a balancing act - juggling your tempo versus your opponents'. There isn't really a general guideline. If your opponent is applying a bunch of creature pressure one has to weigh the effects of land disruption (cutting off a color, shrinking a Nacatl, walking the opp into Daze, etc) versus a need for blockers/digging for removal.

[Star|Scream]

@Colo: Thanks for the response. Would you usually mulligan a hand with no counters?

@Cairo: I think what I'm trying to figure out is, activating a wayfarer and wastelanding every turn means you're doing nothing else at all. So I was just trying to see what other folks' strategies are regarding their first few turns.

[colo]

@Colo: Thanks for the response. Would you usually mulligan a hand with no counters?

Only if it's confirmed I'm facing some kind of combo that can't be stopped by anything else.

[from Cairo]

@Cairo: I think what I'm trying to figure out is, activating a wayfarer and wastelanding every turn means you're doing nothing else at all. So I was just trying to see what other folks' strategies are regarding their first few turns.

Yea like Colo said, certainly trying to pull as much CA out of Weathered Wayfarer is optimal and the earlier you can apply Wasteland pressure the more milage you get out of them and your Dazes and Spell Pierces.

Versus match ups like Zoo on the draw I think it's hard to get much action out of Weathered Wayfarer because they're often quite fast out of the gates and unless you have a FoW/StP for their turn 1 play it's hard to be in a position to use Wayfarer early enough for it to generate virtual card advantage/leave them stranded with cards in hand. Versus something like multicolored Goblins where their curve is so much higher I think it can definitely be an ok strategy to go for "Waste-lock" if they're w/o Vial or Lackey and are playing out duals.

Versus something like Blue decks or even Rock/Junk I'd absolutely try to get Weathered Wayfarer going and slow down their mana progress, while thinning the deck - moving into the mid-game with the opp having a stunted mana base and the deck thinned of an extra couple land (in an already land light deck, at 17 cards) leaves you at a great advantage both with board development and card quality of top decks.

[Telekinesis]

So I've been testing this deck a lot online and my results have been extremely positive. As far as I can tell, it doesn't really have any bad matchups, and it has a lot of really good matchups, which makes me like it a lot more than D&T. Before I commit to putting down money to finish out the deck though, I'm wondering how likely is it to stay viable in the future? Within the past year the entire deck changed by maybe a single card in the main, and it's considered optimized as is. Does this mean that it might have trouble adapting to a changing metagame? Or is it simply that the deck doesn't need to make any changes to a shifting metagame?

I'm still pretty new to the Legacy scene, so I'm a little wary of going for a deck that isn't as popular.

[Tinefol]

Its cheap enough, so why worry? And what isn't cheap, can easily be used in other decks or sold (Tundra/Fow/Wasteland). It does have bad match ups though.

All it means, there are no new cards good enough to significantly change the maindeck. The last one was Stonefroge Mystic.

[Jodahae]

How does everyone feel the matchup against Show and Tell decks are? Ive played several games against them and have been having some troubles. Particularly if they force through there Show and Tell its pretty much gg. Any tech out there to help fight this matchup. Personally im playingtesting Vesuvian Shapeshifter in the Sphinx slot to help shore up my game against random fatties.

[Nidd]

How does everyone feel the matchup against Show and Tell decks are? Ive played several games against them and have been having some troubles. Particularly if they force through there Show and Tell its pretty much gg. Any tech out there to help fight this matchup. Personally im playingtesting Vesuvian Shapeshifter in the Sphinx slot to help shore up my game against random fatties.
Would Man-O-War help there? If they resolve Show and Tell, you put in your Man-O-War and bounce their Emrakul. Doesn't work against Progenitus, though.

[Uncoordinated]

If you're referring to UR Sneak - Show ( the only build of SnT I've seen recently ), then we have as much countermagic as they do preboard: 4 Force, 3 Daze, 2 Pierce at the very least. Post-board we get additional Pierces and they get Pyroblast. But they are probably going to have a hard time casting SnT/Sneak in a timely manner while simultaneously avoiding Daze/Pierce.

I would suggest Clique replacing Sphinx over Man-o-War any day. I'd also suggest running a singleton Karakas somewhere in your 75 if it's a problematic matchup. Honestly, we should just be devoting resources to winning the counterwar over their bombs. They have to expend 3 - 4 mana + mana for Pierce/Blast while we expend maybe 1 or 2 at the most. If they've developed their board position to such a state and you haven't put any pressure on them, there's something wrong.

[Jay_Gatz]

How does everyone feel the matchup against Show and Tell decks are? Ive played several games against them and have been having some troubles. Particularly if they force through there Show and Tell its pretty much gg. Any tech out there to help fight this matchup. Personally im playingtesting Vesuvian Shapeshifter in the Sphinx slot to help shore up my game against random fatties.

Board in your storm hate, especially canonist. You can't lose counter wars when they can't counter back and they will rarely have efficient answers.

[Star|Scream]

I like Canonist for this. What about Revoker?

[Dark Ritual]

Leonin relic-warder eats phyrexian dreadnought as does flickerwisp. Bounce also works wonders against dreadnought.

Beating emrakul with this deck is easy. Just play karakas as a 1 of, tutor for it with wayfarer, and bounce their emrakul with it. That should ruin their day. Or just counter their sneak attack/show and tell works just as well.

Doesn't this deck already run 4 aether vial? I very rarely see decks run 3 vial. Vial is very good at gaining tempo by not having to tap your lands to play dudes. I see no reason to not run 4.

[Star|Scream]

The "standard" list runs 2 vials.

Wisp is above the curve for vials in this deck, and even though it's certainly hard-cast-able, but why not use aura of silence at that point since it can be tutored and has so many other uses. This isn't D&T

Against a resolved show and tell the karakas plan seems good. Against a resolved sneak attack, it's only temporary until you can answer the enchantment or they can answer your land.. Against turbo eldrazi it's useless.

[Star|Scream]

Hi, Just looking for opinions on the possible correct play in this situation.

Playing an unknown opponent on the play, keeping a hand of 6 business (including a wayfarer, counters, but no daze), 1 fetch.

Do you fetch, tundra, wayfarer go?

Do you fetch, plains, wayfarer go?

Do you play the fetch, pass?


I did A, and got wasted next turn and was locked out of the games for several turns before I got any land. I didn't think he would waste me first turn.

[wcm8]

Part of the reason for him wasting you may have been him knowing the deck you were playing. If I saw a turn 1 Wayfarer with a Tundra, I'd know I was playing against UW Tempo, a deck that only runs 17 lands -- T1 Wasteland on the draw would be a great play in this situation. Or he could just have done it without that much insight.

I don't play this deck much, but I'd error on the side of caution and fetch the Plains for wayfarer or just sandbag the fetch depending on the rest of the hand. If your gameplan pans out, you'll be getting tons of lands with Wayfarer, no need to put yourself in danger of getting blown out.

[colo]

Depending on the blue-count of the cards in my hand, I'd fetch Tundra or Plains. You have to be aware that you'll most likely get to fix your mana off of Wayfarer anyway, and he does that for a lousy W. Faking holding Daze is like faking an orgasm. Sure, you can do that, but the real thing really is a lot better. On the plus side, if you can use Wayfarer to tutor up an Island and happen to draw a Daze in your next draw step, your opponent will be like "OMG basic plains, no daze, HELL YEAH LET'S ROCK!!1!" the second before he shits his pantaloons.


If you have the choice, do you prefer Weathered Wayfarer, Mother of Runes or Aether Vial as your first-turn drop?

[Star|Scream]

1st drop for me depends on what deck I'm against.

Here are some random thoughts.

If on the play against unknown:

Vial with counter backup seems good. If they drop an island or a fetch that can grab islands next turn, you can play it safe and wait until turns 2 + 3 to bring out the 1/1's, probably even vialing in 1 or the other during my upkeep of turn 3 before upping my counters to 2.

If they play a white or red land you can bring mom in on turn 2 with same counter backup against their removal. then turn 3 and onward your ww is semi-protected.

[Uncoordinated]

@Star|Scream:

I'd only fetch for Tundra if I had another colour-producing land in hand. Especially if you don't have a Daze, then there's almost no reason to do so, barring like, Pierce/Brainstorm/Brainstorm in hand. It's still a very risky play. There's always the possibility of them removing your Wayfarer and potentially locking you out of blue, but you still have eleven potential plays ( I run three Vials ) with a single basic Plains in play, as well as 15 - 16 additional lands.



@Colo:

As for having the option of T1 Vial/Wayfarer/Mom, I would almost always drop Vial first against an unknown opponent. It effectively baits out knee-jerk counters ( CBTop, decks playing Standstill ) while protecting your real business, and accelerates your game plan if unanswered. An active Wayfarer with Vial out is probably the strongest early game position UW Tempo can be in against the majority of competitive Legacy decks.

If it's a choice between Mom and Wayfarer, then it's really up to what your opponent is playing and what else you have in hand. Dropping Wayfarer T1 is the optimal play, as it almost always ensures that you're using your mana efficiently T2. I usually lead with Mom against aggressive decks ( Zoo, Tribal ), as T1 Mom, untap and T2 Wayfarer ( and potentially dropping fetch/waste ) is quite strong. If you've got a choice between dropping a fetch or waste T2, I would only put down the waste if the opponent fetched for a nonbasic target T1. If they've got uncracked fetches and/or basics it's generally better to drop a fetch to ensure Wayfarer activation.

[Star|Scream]

@uncoordinated: what have you cut for the vial? sphinx?

[Uncoordinated]

@uncoordinated: what have you cut for the vial? sphinx?

I'm running the list in the OP ( Forbiddian's ), except with Sphinx in the place of KotWO. I believe pi4 cut a Vial for an additional Sphinx in his, but later said he would probably add the 18th land in place of it. I am also leaning towards such a change, as honestly I have been forced to mulligan too many no land hands for my liking.

[Purgatory]

Finished a disappointing 0-3 yesterday with the standard Sphinx list, kind of a boring day, faced nothing but combo.

ANT (1-2)
First game he comboes on turn 2, I have nothing to interact. I win the second after establishing control, and in the third I get both hate cards (Canonist + Thorn), but I draw nothing but shitty white Creatures, and not a single Mother of Runes to protect the Canonist from Spree, I do howevr draw multiple Jittes, Avengers and Stoneforges. After a couple of Duress' I can't stop him from wishing after Spree and destroying both my lock cards the next turn, and then he Diminishing Returns after a Chant and comboes me out. The FoWs I draw from the Returns are the only ones I'll see the entire day, and he manages to draw Petal + LED + Infernal from his Returns, and comboes me even though 3 of his Wishes and 1 of his tutors are gone. Tough break, but a good and friendly player.

Eureka/Show (0-2)
In game one he Eurekas me out of nowhere for Prog+ Emrakul. In game 2, the cards I see from him are Spell Pierce, Daze, FoW, Show and Tell, Emrakul + Lands. Nicely drawn.

Aeon Bridge (0-2)
Up against a team mate here, didn't take the match too seriously by this point and just played it out for fun. In game one, I saw exactly 0 Wastelands, Spell Pierces or FoWs and in game two I find Needle for his bridge, but can't stop his Show and Tell.

All in all, choosing to play UW Tempo after a break from the game, and while I had another much easier, better-suited for the meta deck with me, was probably what caused me to lose. I should've just said "f' it" and played Dragon Stompy or even combo myself, more than half of the field was combo. I'm getting tired of all the Show decks around here, out of 20 players, at least 4 played Show and Tell, and it's such a no-brainer combo, but still rather difficult to deal with. Thinking about O-Ring in the board, seriously.

[colo]

The recent showings of combo in the international metagame worry me somewhat. I hope that this tremendously boring, non-interactive shit will come to an end soon; what fun is it to lose to a turn 1 Emrakul because there simply are no outs to a board situation like that?

[Purgatory]

The recent showings of combo in the international metagame worry me somewhat. I hope that this tremendously boring, non-interactive shit will come to an end soon; what fun is it to lose to a turn 1 Emrakul because there simply are no outs to a board situation like that?

Agreed, it is extremely frustrating to face these "broken" turn 1 plays. Not sure what to do about it but to mulligan into a Force of Will and then pray that he didn't draw one of his own.

[Tinefol]

Returning to the deck soon, after half a year break :) I think its good positioned in the current metagame, my mate went 5-1-1 and 4-2-1 in two tournaments, getting a top2 split in one, and losing in top4 in another.

Tuning UWT to beat combo is easy. I'd happily go into that metagame of yours, with some changes. Probably with some Meddling Mages maindeck and perhaps Karakas. Oblivion Ring in S/B could be of use too.

Bad luck on your draws though...

[Purgatory]

Returning to the deck soon, after half a year break :) I think its good positioned in the current metagame, my mate went 5-1-1 and 4-2-1 in two tournaments, getting a top2 split in one, and losing in top4 in another.

Tuning UWT to beat combo is easy. I'd happily go into that metagame of yours, with some changes. Probably with some Meddling Mages maindeck and perhaps Karakas. Oblivion Ring in S/B could be of use too.

Bad luck on your draws though...

Yeah, I suppose a more capable pilot could've T8'd in that field, but I was out of tune that day, so to speak. If I had properly prepared for the tournament then I think I could have done a lot better (as I have, with the deck, in the past in similar fields). Choosing to play Dragon Stompy or Merfolk and just tossing 3spheres and little blue men around me all day would probably have been benificial, however. Luck is always a factor in Magic, and on bad days I can't play around shitty draws :/

[Uncoordinated]

A little food for thought today - some scenarios I've been thinking over.

Scenario 1: Aggro! ( on the play )

You drop Wayfarer on your first turn with fetch -> Tundra. You have: fetch, Mom, Stoneforge, Brainstorm, and Daze. It is the first game of the set against an unknown opponent.

Your game plan against the following:

- Zoo with T1 fetch -> Plateau -> Lynx
- Zoo with T1 fetch -> Taiga -> Nacatl
- Zoo with T1 fetch -> Mountain -> Kird Ape
- Merfolk with T1 Delta -> Island -> Cursecatcher
- Merfolk with T1 Delta -> Island -> Vial
- Merfolk with T1 Muta -> Vial
- Goblins with T1 Mire -> Mountain -> Lackey
- Goblins with T1 Mire -> Mountain -> Vial
- Goblins with T1 Port -> Vial

Which plays would you go for the Daze on? Some are fairly uncomplicated decisions, so I'll add another level:

You draw a Wasteland after untapping for your second turn.

If you Dazed:
- What land do you play?
- What are you doing with Wayfarer?
- Are you playing Mom?

If you didn't Daze:
- What land do you play?
- Are you dropping Mom/Stoneforge? Wayfarer activation?


Now try it on the draw! Your cards are: Fetch x 2, Wayfarer, Mom, Stoneforge, Brainstorm, Daze, Wasteland. You now have a first turn choice between Mom or Wayfarer ( or nothing ). You've drawn the above Wasteland on your first turn, and your second turn draw is Grunt or Avenger.

[colo]

It's still really early around here, but I just got out of the shower and can't skip over this, although I'll have to be on the move pretty much right away... ;)



You drop Wayfarer on your first turn with fetch -> Tundra. You have: fetch, Mom, Stoneforge, Brainstorm, and Daze. It is the first game of the set against an unknown opponent.

Your game plan against the following:

- Zoo with T1 fetch -> Plateau -> Lynx

No daze. Play fetch (don't crack though) and drop mom next turn - he will want to have landdrops as Lynx is only useful with that kind of thing, and that should yield you some Wayfarer activations and potential mana-screw on the opp's side. Save the daze for removal or a bigger threat. Short-term goal: Activate Wayfarer to get Wasteland in response to fetching next turn (generally in my upkeep, so my chance of drawing a spell increases.

- Zoo with T1 fetch -> Taiga -> Nacatl

See above.

- Zoo with T1 fetch -> Mountain -> Kird Ape

Would have tothink about it some more. No daze though, most probably.

- Merfolk with T1 Delta -> Island -> Cursecatcher

See above.

- Merfolk with T1 Delta -> Island -> Vial

Daze. Not being able to counter his threats is bad, and trading a card and some tempo for a Vial is a fair deal. Apart from that, same short-term strategy as against Zoo above.

- Merfolk with T1 Muta -> Vial

See above.

- Goblins with T1 Mire -> Mountain -> Lackey

No Daze. Play fetch -> Plains, Stoneforge Mystic next turn, fetching either SoFaI or Jitte. Lackey won't connect next turn for sure, and that puts some tough pressure on the opp early.

- Goblins with T1 Mire -> Mountain -> Vial

Daze. You cannot afford to have Goblins have an active Vial, period. Play mom next turn, decide between Playing SFM and activating Wayfarer the turn after, dep. on board position.

- Goblins with T1 Port -> Vial

Daze. Nonbasic opening into Vial -> someone seems desperate. Port is'n that good against UWT as you can respond to being ported in your upkeep by activating Wayfarer, tapping two of his lands for one of yours and netting a card.

[...]


Got to go now, as it's too late already! Looking forwrd to your takes on the situations! :)

[dirtyapes]

Is there a good way to beat MUC with this deck or is it just a lost cause? I recently played against it and could not do anything to it. Powder Kegs and Shakles made it impossible for me to maintain any board presence. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

On another note, is there a reason why this deck has been absent from a lot of tournaments? Is it because of the level of skill to properly play the deck or something else?

[Tinefol]

Back alive and kickin!

Played a Friday tournament and went 3-0, double id very smoothly. 2-0d the Bant Aggro and UBG Jacestill, then roflstomped the Ichorid 2-1. Lost game one, but game 2&3 were the nuts with the S/B.

I played Jace in my flex spot MD, and MMs in S/B. My meta has a bunch of 'rogue' combo, instead of the usual ANT/High Tide, so I prefer the Meddling Mages there. I believe the only major bad match up the deck now has is Zoo. Still not aware how to turn this match into positive and I've tried a lot of things.

MUC is on of the easiest match ups the deck has. I've used to win even past two shackles on board. There are 4 ways to deal with it:

1) Avenger under jitte, which can not be stolen due to high power.
2) Deal some damage early, then overwhelm with a bunch of guys. Vial particularly helps there.
3) Avenger + Mom + anything. If they steall Avenger, you give protection with Mom and swing past through it. If they steal Mom, you swing with Avenger. If they steal anything, they're stupid xD
4) After S/B - the deck folds to a resolved Devout Witness. Which I also happen to run in the S/B.

[markbris]

Back alive and kickin!

Played a Friday tournament and went 3-0, double id very smoothly. 2-0d the Bant Aggro and UBG Jacestill, then roflstomped the Ichorid 2-1. Lost game one, but game 2&3 were the nuts with the S/B.

I played Jace in my flex spot MD, and MMs in S/B. My meta has a bunch of 'rogue' combo, instead of the usual ANT/High Tide, so I prefer the Meddling Mages there. I believe the only major bad match up the deck now has is Zoo. Still not aware how to turn this match into positive and I've tried a lot of things.

MUC is on of the easiest match ups the deck has. I've used to win even past two shackles on board. There are 4 ways to deal with it:

1) Avenger under jitte, which can not be stolen due to high power.
2) Deal some damage early, then overwhelm with a bunch of guys. Vial particularly helps there.
3) Avenger + Mom + anything. If they steall Avenger, you give protection with Mom and swing past through it. If they steal Mom, you swing with Avenger. If they steal anything, they're stupid xD
4) After S/B - the deck folds to a resolved Devout Witness. Which I also happen to run in the S/B.

Can you post your list?

[Tinefol]

Its a stock list from post1 with JTMS in a flex spot (instead of KoTWO). The S/B is different, but its meta-dependant, so I wouldn't recommend it for a random meta.

[markbris]

Its a stock list from post1 with JTMS in a flex spot (instead of KoTWO). The S/B is different, but its meta-dependant, so I wouldn't recommend it for a random meta.

What would you reccomend for the SCG meta?

[Tinefol]

Something along the lines of

3 Meddling Mage ( I think the most effective hate for decks like NO / Show, randomly hoses all other combo stuff, dredge, etc)
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Etutor
1 Crypt
1 Relic
1 Wheel
2 Aura of Silence
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 PTE / Submerge

[CorpT]

Has anyone considered Squadron Hawk in a Vial list? It has a lot of synergy with Grunt and Brainstorm.

[Tinefol]

Squadron Hawk is cool and stuff, but it really falls in a 'danger of cool things' category. The way I see it, it is 1W: draw 3 blanks. Pretty unimpressive body, which requires extra cards to be of any use and wastes 4 slots in the deck. Nope, not going to work.

Played another tournament, going 3-1, 2x Merfolk 2-0, Belcher 2-1, Ichorid 1-2. Played a couple of games against Zoo for fun. Went 4-2 surprisingly.

[Micki]

Hello there!

I'm just putting this deck together and I have couple of questions about card choices that I hope some one who has more experience with the deck wont find too stupid to answer.
A few lands I thought would be interesting but since I haven't tested the deck I don't know how much they will screw up/slow down the mana base.

1 Azourius Chancery (keeps our land count down and allows us to have blue mana against merfolk)
1 Mistveil Plains (recycling wastelands and fetches could be nice)
1 Ghost Quarter(could be good with Mistveil Plains against decks that run only a couple of basics)

Some players are obviously thinking of running 18 lands instead of 17, is this a general direction or? Has anyone tested Mangara of Corondor or Elspeth in the deck? I was thinking of running Warmth in the SB against decks packing red, has any one tested it?

I hope some one will take the time to answer these questions, I will post my decklist when it's ready and of course test/tournament reports as soon as I have any.

Thank You!

[Tinefol]

Taplands are bad in legacy. Its a fast format and it requires you to use all your landdrops immediately. Azorius Chancery is even worse and should never ever be run in Legacy for one simple reason: you will be blown out by Wasteland. Totally not worth it.
Mistveil's Plains ability is cute, but unnecessary. And its a tapland = see above.
Ghost Quarter just sucks. You really don't have the time to destroy all their basic lands. This is uneven trade. This deck is all about trading down and netting yourself card advantage.

Mangara is too mana heavy, and we don't up vial to 3. It also requires multiple Karakases, which we have no place to run.
Elspeth just doesn't add any value. You already have flying guys and the means to stall the board. If anything, run the singleton JTMS like I do.

Warmth is awful. I wouldn't run it in any deck, even if it had the horrible burn match up, since its so narrow and there're just better options. Magic isn't about getting life, its about winning and not losing. Besides, this deck generally already crushes the red decks (burn, goblins).

[rayaj]

I sleeved this back up last night and tested against a counter top deck, played a jace the money sculptor and a vexing sphinx in the flex slots. Ended up boringly with me jacing him out. The deck still feels solid but I don't know if this deck is powerful enough right now, I'll still be a fan and try to play this but I'm sure I'll be bouncing around between decks for a while.

Other than that, I have a question about the burn and goblins matchup, I tested against r/b goblins for a while and it was not an easy time, I think the games were about 50/50. I just felt like I didn't have enough to get past the creatures even if I could drop jitte because I couldn't keep enough guys in play.

[Tinefol]

I do think its powerful enough. Nothing much has changed since the last year, except there's much less Zoo and no Survival (for obvious reason), which were the bad match ups. I had my fair share of bouncing between decks too :) Played Landstill, Supreme Blue, Ultimate Walker, Zoo, Bant in between and now I think I'm back to UWT. Might still play Zoo occasionally, but for now UWT seems like a good choice.

Burn just can't give you a lot of problems, and Goblins can be tricky. Sometimes they get into insane Ringleader topdecks etc. More often than not though, you waste them out or get active jitte. MonoRed is a tougher one for that matter. If you ever think gobling are becoming your problem run Absolute Law or Burrenton in the board. Those help.

[dirtyapes]

I agree that this deck is powerful enough. My meta is kinda small but there is a good mix of decks but I continue to top 4 every week. Most players have no idea what you are playing and think every morphed creature is an Exalted Angel. Most people also have no idea how to play against Wayfarer. I think the biggest part of the deck is the pilot. It is not an easy deck to play. I still make play mistakes and I have been playing it for months now.

[mossivo1986]

Your group must have little legacy experience.

[Tinefol]

Well when I was playing GP Madrid, it happened once: I've casted the morph. My opponent thought it was an Exalted Angel and tried EEing at 0. Other than that, I don't think anybody ever doubted it was a Fathom Seer

[Star|Scream]

Back alive and kickin!

Played a Friday tournament and went 3-0, double id very smoothly. 2-0d the Bant Aggro and UBG Jacestill, then roflstomped the Ichorid 2-1. Lost game one, but game 2&3 were the nuts with the S/B.

I played Jace in my flex spot MD, and MMs in S/B. My meta has a bunch of 'rogue' combo, instead of the usual ANT/High Tide, so I prefer the Meddling Mages there. I believe the only major bad match up the deck now has is Zoo. Still not aware how to turn this match into positive and I've tried a lot of things.

MUC is on of the easiest match ups the deck has. I've used to win even past two shackles on board. There are 4 ways to deal with it:

1) Avenger under jitte, which can not be stolen due to high power.
2) Deal some damage early, then overwhelm with a bunch of guys. Vial particularly helps there.
3) Avenger + Mom + anything. If they steall Avenger, you give protection with Mom and swing past through it. If they steal Mom, you swing with Avenger. If they steal anything, they're stupid xD
4) After S/B - the deck folds to a resolved Devout Witness. Which I also happen to run in the S/B.

Do you vial up to 3 or just hardcast the witness?

I like MM now because of all these turbodrazi decks hardcasting emrakul. If expecting to see decks like these and other ramp decks where mana cost isn't an issue for them, would you ever go with more hard counters and less taxing ones? Dare I say MindBreak trap? And yes, we can get to 4 mana against turbodrazi quite easily with wayfarer.

[TheDeadMan]

Seems like if turbodrazi is an issue meddling mage making its way into the MD would be a perfect call. I personally have been messing around with a U/w tempo deck for abit that runs a few different hate cards and have been getting solid results:

Creatures: 15
3 curse catcher
3 serra avenger
3 jotun grunt
4 meddling mage
2 vendilion clique

Removal: 5
4 swords to plowshares
1 path to exile

Counters: 10
4 FoW
3 daze
3 spell snare

Draw: 7
4 brainstorm
3 ponder

2 meta slots

Mana: 21
4 flooded strand
2 tarns
1 arid mesa
4 tundra
3 wasteland
3 plains
4 island

Ive cut the vial added more easier to cast draw, and buffed up the mana base so that their isent a need for creatures like wayfarer, which lets curse catcher get played.

[Star|Scream]

Seems like if turbodrazi is an issue meddling mage making its way into the MD would be a perfect call. I personally have been messing around with a U/w tempo deck for abit that runs a few different hate cards and have been getting solid results:

Creatures: 15
3 curse catcher
3 serra avenger
3 jotun grunt
4 meddling mage
2 vendilion clique

Removal: 5
4 swords to plowshares
1 path to exile

Counters: 10
4 FoW
3 daze
3 spell snare

Draw: 7
4 brainstorm
3 ponder

2 meta slots

Mana: 21
4 flooded strand
2 tarns
1 arid mesa
4 tundra
3 wasteland
3 plains
4 island

Ive cut the vial added more easier to cast draw, and buffed up the mana base so that their isent a need for creatures like wayfarer, which lets curse catcher get played.

needs moar jace

[Tinefol]

Do you vial up to 3 or just hardcast the witness?

I like MM now because of all these turbodrazi decks hardcasting emrakul. If expecting to see decks like these and other ramp decks where mana cost isn't an issue for them, would you ever go with more hard counters and less taxing ones? Dare I say MindBreak trap? And yes, we can get to 4 mana against turbodrazi quite easily with wayfarer.

It depends on a situation, againt MUC I of course would, since they just staight lose to the card. In other matches I generally wouldn't, just cast it for cost.

I don't expect Turbodrazi decks becoming prominent ever, because of the prohibitive cost of Candelabras. I was going to build the deck myself, but now, nope, I'm totally not cashing out for a playset of yet another Imperial Recruiters. Though, even in that happens in some magic dream land, I wouldn't even think about hard counters. There are better options, I would just resort for the permanent hate, like Meddling Mage, Back to Basics etc.

@TheDeadMan
If you run the fish with white, at least do run SFM and equipment package. There's no excuse for not doing so. And maindeck PtE is a sin.

[TheDeadMan]

@TheDeadMan
If you run the fish with white, at least do run SFM and equipment package. There's no excuse for not doing so. And maindeck PtE is a sin.

Well theirs allways the excuse of their price being over inflated to hell and back :) I was running smf/equip for awhile but given this version of the deck actually has creatures with a decent power ive been finding the package abit clunky, which is why I also havent put in the trinket mage+ tricks package. The singleton path is fine, ive been finding myself needing abit of a removal boost against tribal aggro and its the next best removal spell on the list.

[rayaj]

I do think its powerful enough. Nothing much has changed since the last year, except there's much less Zoo and no Survival (for obvious reason), which were the bad match ups. I had my fair share of bouncing between decks too :) Played Landstill, Supreme Blue, Ultimate Walker, Zoo, Bant in between and now I think I'm back to UWT. Might still play Zoo occasionally, but for now UWT seems like a good choice.

Burn just can't give you a lot of problems, and Goblins can be tricky. Sometimes they get into insane Ringleader topdecks etc. More often than not though, you waste them out or get active jitte. MonoRed is a tougher one for that matter. If you ever think gobling are becoming your problem run Absolute Law or Burrenton in the board. Those help.

Yeah, Burrenton was helpful, it didn't help that the guy I was testing against has been playing goblins in legacy almost since it started. He's quit M:tG since, but he played the deck for probably a good ten years so its fair to say that he makes few to no play mistakes.

I've been thinking about going back to landstill but this deck is just a lot of fun to me, I feel like I've hit a wall with it though, I don't get to test against a lot of deck. I'm probably gonna put together affinity sometime soon just for shits.

[rayaj]

I do think its powerful enough. Nothing much has changed since the last year, except there's much less Zoo and no Survival (for obvious reason), which were the bad match ups. I had my fair share of bouncing between decks too :) Played Landstill, Supreme Blue, Ultimate Walker, Zoo, Bant in between and now I think I'm back to UWT. Might still play Zoo occasionally, but for now UWT seems like a good choice.

Burn just can't give you a lot of problems, and Goblins can be tricky. Sometimes they get into insane Ringleader topdecks etc. More often than not though, you waste them out or get active jitte. MonoRed is a tougher one for that matter. If you ever think gobling are becoming your problem run Absolute Law or Burrenton in the board. Those help.

Yeah, Burrenton was helpful, it didn't help that the guy I was testing against has been playing goblins in legacy almost since it started. He's quit M:tG since, but he played the deck for probably over ten years so its fair to say that he makes few to no play mistakes.

I've been thinking about going back to landstill but this deck is just a lot of fun to me, I feel like I've hit a wall with it though, I don't get to test against a lot of deck. I'm probably gonna put together affinity sometime soon just for shits.

[Micki]

Has anyone tested Sea Drake in UW Tempo? It's easier to cast than Vexing Sphinx, stays around and has synergy with wayfarer. The only thing you'll loose is the cantrip and of course 4/3 vs. 4/4.

[Scordata]

I like the idea of Sea Drake, but I'm not sold on his drawback. Fathom Seer does this for us already, and only when we WANT him to, which is sort of a big deal. If you feel like you NEED more flyers throw in a Serindib Efreet.

BTW has anyone else tested nogoyf against the new Tezzeret affinity list? That matchup is near-unwinable.
Im thinking of just putting disenchants in my sideboard instead of Forge-tenders. Goblins is a bye anyway, and Burn is not a real deck.

[Jodahae]

Throw Serenity into your board if you dont have it, Ive played it for a while and its absolutely amazing against Affinity, they have such an all in strategy that its always x for 1 and all they can do is let you time walk them and not play anything the turn after it drops.

[Sygg_River_Landlord]

@Tinefol, I think you mentioned earlier having a singleton Jace, The Mind Sculptor, would you mind sharing your list? I'm curious how that would look.

[mans0011]

BTW has anyone else tested nogoyf against the new Tezzeret affinity list? That matchup is near-unwinable.
Im thinking of just putting disenchants in my sideboard instead of Forge-tenders. Goblins is a bye anyway, and Burn is not a real deck.

When I used to play Vial Affinity, Hurkyl's Recall was the bane of my existence. I don't see why it cannot be played here, either. It's cheap, only hits artis, pitches to Force... kind of an all-star, eh?

[Scordata]

Serenity is a good idea, but I think I'm going to go with Energy Flux. Sticks around longer, and causes more headaches than just a board-wipe. I don't wanna go with Hurkyls because you can't tutor for it (tutorable hate is a huge strength of the deck,) and because with Mox Opal they just vomit their hand onto the board the turn after you do that.

Imagine you are playing Affinity, its your opponent's turn 3, and they land an Energy Flux. Now you have to tap 2 of your lands just to save 1 of your lands. Seems better imo.

[Tinefol]

@Sygg_River_Landlord As I said, a stock list from page one with JTMS in a flex spot (in place of KoTWO). Only S/B is different.

Energy Flux is a good idea if your meta has a lot of Affinity and/or MUD.

@more fliers idea: try Coralhelm. Probably the best idea, if you want an additional flier. Unnecessary though.

[from Cairo]

@Sygg_River_Landlord As I said, a stock list from page one with JTMS in a flex spot (in place of KoTWO). Only S/B is different.

Energy Flux is a good idea if your meta has a lot of Affinity and/or MUD.

@more fliers idea: try Coralhelm. Probably the best idea, if you want an additional flier. Unnecessary though.

Was thinking of trying Energy Flux but I think for the matches you want it for Null Rod is a more powerful option. Admittedly it has bad synergy with Vial and Equipment, but one can board out some Artifacts. If you stick it against Affinity, or MUD it's likely gg.

[dirtyapes]

I'm going to take this deck to Vestal this weekend. Any ideas on what to bring with me as a potential SB for a diverse meta like that one? I was thinking something like:
1x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Energy Flux
2-3x Enlightened Tutor
1x Ethersworn Canonist
7-8 open slots

I'm not sure what the rest should be. Since I don't have a Karakas I think I should have either a Journey to Nowhere or Oblivion Ring to fight Emrakul. Propoganda or Ghostly Prison always seems good against Goblins or Merfolk and can be tutored for so I may include one of them too.

[Tinefol]

Propaganda and Ghotsly Prison aren't that good against Merfolk and Goblins. I wouldn't bring in either in these matches. It's okay against Ichorid, and that's about it. There are better cards against ichorid. Like gravehate.

Here's your random meta S/B:
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Submerge
1 Energy Flux

[Uncoordinated]

@ Tinefol

You wouldn't bring in Ghostly Prison against Goblins? I personally love it, but you've got a whole lot more experience with the deck. Also, why not the regular Canonist/Thorn split against an unknown meta?

If you're running Energy Flux, I would also suggest at least a one-of Aura of Silence. It's always been good for me against Affinity even if it is a bit slow, and it is pretty much as hard a lock as you can get outside of Null Rod, while they both function well alone. I would probably cut a Submerge from Tinefol's sb for it.

[Tinefol]

I probably wasn't that clear. As in means, these matches aren't even close for me to consider Ghostly Prison. If I somehow had one in my S/B I'd probably side it in though. But as it stands, a random one-of (you're not going to board ETutors here, so chances to see it are like 1/3), which isn't too impressive, nope, I'm not running this.

Because Canonist is more useful. It makes a clock of itself against combo decks. Its a whole lot better against High Tide (Thorn only makes them find +1 Tide) and random shit like Food Chain, Glimpse Elves or Aluren. I believe the days of Thorn are over.

Aura has its merits, though Energy Flux is probably enough against Affinity. There're decks like MUD, so it can be useful.

[dirtyapes]

@ Tinefol Is there a reason for Submerge over Curfew? Without a Karakas I would think Curfew would be more useful because it hits both Progenitus and Emrakul though I could see the plus of it hitting Knight of the Reliquary where Swords may not be great because of how big they can get.

[Tinefol]

Curfew was only good against Reanimator. Against Show and Tell, its better to stop that spell. If you're expeting a lot of it, run Medlling Mage.
Submerge is in additional removal spot. The other options there are PtE, Condemn and Wing Shards.

[dirtyapes]

How do people feel about Mental Misstep in this deck? I feel like it could be played in the Spell Pierce spot and not lose from it. I think it at least deserves testing in the deck even if as a 2-of in the SP slot. I know this sort of question is pretty cliche but i think that it actually does warrant at least some discussion.

[Forbiddian]

How do people feel about Mental Misstep in this deck? I feel like it could be played in the Spell Pierce spot and not lose from it. I think it at least deserves testing in the deck even if as a 2-of in the SP slot. I know this sort of question is pretty cliche but i think that it actually does warrant at least some discussion.

Definitely replaces SP and probably some copies of Daze or other cards. You have to play it and probably four copies no less, because if you don't play it and someone Missteps you, you fall so far behind on tempo.

Turn 1 Nacatl, Misstep your Swords.
Turn 2 Anything remotely aggressive is probably game.

(Note: This applies to any deck, not just UWT)


UWT really treads a fine line because almost all of its cards sacrifice tempo for other advantages. A smooth mana curve helps it run fast, but Mental Misstep definitely changes the rules of tempo in MTG. I'm not sure it can just 1:1 replace cards in UWT and have that still be optimal, and I really suspect the coming Summer to be aggro-infested as combo players develop strategies to beat 4x Mental Missteps in every single matchup. We'll see what happens to the metagame.

Maybe the new free Peek is strong enough for Charbelcher to make a return, etc. etc. Charbelcher is pretty resistant to Mental Misstep and larger EtW plays are possible with the new Peek.

[dirtyapes]

My biggest concern with adding Misstep over a card like Daze is that Daze does double duty in that you can get back to being able to activate Wayfarer. Daze not being conditional(to an extent) is also huge. Missteps would be dead cards in games that I have won because I either cut them off from the 1 more mana they needed or stopped the card they needed to resolve that's mana cost was higher than 1. I will test it as a 2-4 of in the deck but I'm not sure that it is really needed to be played as a 4-of the way everyone else thinks it should. I'm probably wrong and will need to find a way to fit 4 in but I'm not enamored with the card the way some people are. I think it is a strong card is some decks and a good card in other but not a fit for any deck.

[Sygg_River_Landlord]

Does anyone have any lists with mental misstep that they've had a chance to test yet?

[alrightgame]

I think taking out 2 spell pierce, 1 fathom seer, and possibly 1 sphinx would be the best slots for 4 mental misstep. I can't recall ever wanting to have an opening hand with a fathom seer. That is my opinion after playing the deck for a year.

[Micki]

Hello everyone!

I wanted to try something different in the deck and maybe give us something to discuss besides what to use in the flex spot and how to fit Mental Misstep in the deck. I decided to try a green splash because it gives so many options, here's the list I'm working on.

4 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
2 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
3 Wasteland
2 Plains
2 Island

2 Aether Vial

4 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Fathom Seer
3 Serra Avenger
2 Trygon Predator
1 Jotun Grunt

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep
3 Daze
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

Sideboard

3 Meddling Mage
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Elephant Grass
1 Aura of Silence
1 Engineered Explosives

I haven't had the oppurtunity to test this list that much yet and I haven't played it in any tournaments but I thought I'd post it already and hopefully I'll get as much feedback and thoughts as possible, here are some thoughts;

As you see the only cards so far that need green mana are Trygon Predator (Affinity is quite popular in my meta right now) and Elephant Grass. Using the whole Stoneforge package with two swords in the sideboard gives the deck more flexibility than the 2 Jitte version IMO, it also allowes me to cut one Mother of Runes (though I sometimes miss the fourth one). As you see there's 61 cards in the deck at the moment but I'll cut one card eventually or then I'll just play with 61.
My manabase has worked really well and the green splash of course gives a me access to a ton of cards other than Trygon Predator.
3 Daze + 3 MM is awesome in the early game and MM makes my opponent sweat through the whole game, countering a StoP on an equipped Avenger or a Stifle when I'm fetching are my favourites :).

I've been thinking about cutting the Vials because I personally think that a deck running Vial should use 4 or at least 3, otherwise you can't rely on getting to use the card nearly enough.
I might try -2 Vial + 1 Bojuka Bog but I haven't tried it yet.

I would very very much appriciate any feedback (good or bad) on my list and please, if you think the list is crap, do tell me why.

It might be wrong to post a list that hasen't been tested in any competitions yet but I'm hoping that this will start a discussion on new approaches to the deck.

Micki

[lordofthepit]

It looks like you played a green splash for just Elephant Grass in the sideboard?

I don't know what matches you'd want Elephant Grass against, but why splash for just one card when you have access to Propaganda and Ghostly Prison in color?

[Micki]

Trygon Predator also needs green and as I said green gives me access to a ton of cards, Qasali, Tarmo, RWM, KotR, Lorescale Coatl, Krosan Grip, Hierarch and Gaddock Teeg to name few.
This is just the list I'm starting from, my goal is that by splashing green the deck would be flexible enough to coupe with a changing meta. I hate it when a deck goes from Tier 1 to unplayable in a week because it isn't flexible enough.

[lavafrogg]

If we are adding green what benefits do we have over just playing bant?

[Micki]

If we are adding green what benefits do we have over just playing bant?

The Core of our deck (IMO) is the card advantage and/or manadenial we get from the two most important cards in the deck, Weathered Wayfarer and Fathom Seer. Most Bant lists have NO + Progenitus as their main wincon.

Since white play a much more important role in UW Tempo than in Bant the amount of green cards will always be restricted in order to have enough blue cards to support FoW, thus NO will never be an option.

If you want to compare our deck to some other deck I think we have more in common with Maverick than Bant.

Since Bant is a DTB it is obviously a good choice to play for anyone. I play UW Tempo mainly because white is my favorite color and the idea behind the deck fits my playing style. Whether we have any benefits over bant or not... I don't know? I just like this deck more and I think having a small green splash gives us more flexibility without weakening the manabase that much.

[lavafrogg]

I guess then what I was really saying.... Is if you aresplashjng green for main deck cards why is tarmogoyf not the first card on your list? A ugw tempo build based around ww and sm could work out but once you weaken you mana base to add the third color youwould be silly not to playthe big guy instead of hating on him...:/

[dirtyapes]

Splashing green is an awful idea. You basically are making a bad Bant deck instead. You said that it gives you the option to play all cards that go into Bant and you would have to take out all of the cards that make it this deck to play them. By removing Vial you should also remove the Avengers because they become pretty bad without Vial.

If you want to play Mental Misstep in this deck, you need to start with the Spell Pierce slots and then 2 flex spots to get them in. The rest of the deck is pretty solid in the card choices. They all have synergy with other cards or are called Force of Will. In 5 rounds in Vestal last weekend, I didn't find myself wishing I had a Misstep in hand or I would have lost if I played it because I was at such low life until I was able to get a Jitte active. I'm going to test it as a 2-of in the Spell Pierce slot but I think forcing 4 into the deck is going to be a bad idea.

[Micki]

Yeah well, life would be very boring if you never tried anything new :) Does anyone have any thoughts about Spellskite?

[dirtyapes]

I'm not against trying new things but you haven't made the deck any better by adding Trygon Predator and Elephant Grass. Trygon is worse than Energy Flux against Affinity. Ghostly Prison and Propaganda are better than Elephant Grass because they don't require an upkeep when we want to keep as few lands on the board as possible to increase the effectiveness of Wayfarer.

On adding creatures like Goyf, KotR, RWM, Pridemage, or Teeg, what would you take out to play these and why would that list be better than Maverick or Bant? Teeg already gets outclassed for this deck IMO by Meddling Mage. It allows us to still play our FoWs but can cut off combo pieces and let use aggro in for the win. Plus it pitches to FoW which is always relevant in this deck because it is light on blue cards.

On Spellskite, I'm having a hard time figuring out what you could do with it. It seems like it would be Mom 5+6 most of the time. It doesn't really have synergy with anything in the deck either so I would have a hard time finding a spot for it.

[Micki]

I haven't tried Spellskite but since I run both moms and swords Spellskite could make the other creatures (and me for that matter) almost immune to any kind of removal or burn.
This might be a bit far fetched but I just thought I'd check if someone else had thought of the idea.

[Star|Scream]

So, what I've been testing is

17 Lands
2 Jitte
2 Vial
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Mother of Runes
2 Jotun Grunt
4 Fathom Seer
4 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Serra Avenger
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 STP
3 Brainstorm

Nothing conclusive yet. Feels strong with misstep. My reasoning for upping the SFM is to increase the chances of landing equipment, reducing our reliance on vial, mom, and wayfarer (our 1 drops), and I'm thinking about throwing in a sword of fire & ice and removing a jitte to help against fish, jtms, bolt, fire/ice, etc. also opposing SFM decks can tutor for jitte and render yours worthless. the sword will probably have to be snuck in, but with more SFM this is easier to do, imho.

The only other choices I need help making is what to cut for the 3rd mystic. I tried daze. Not good. I can only think a fathom seer or brainstorm.

Should we move away from the SB tutor package due to misstep and instead consolidate our answers to beat other blue decks?

[Karhumies]

BTW, Phyrexian Metamorph seems like a plausible SB card to compliment the E.Tutor package. It allows us to
1) Legendary rule out opposing creatures, including Progenitus. (even opposing Jitte BTW)
2) Become a copy of an opposing utility creature/artifact to get a beneficial effect for us
3) Clone our own card essential in that match-up (Mother of Runes, Avenger)

I don't think it's even close to the best SB card we have, but I think we have some space there to experiment with a 1-of. The problem is, this card is utility for 3 mana + 2 life, when we usually are looking for pinpointedly on-business stuff for 2 mana or less.

[colo]

Phyrexian Metamorph's flexibility is amazing, and I'm already 100% set on running at least one copy of it in the sideboard. Being able to deal with Progenitus alone is huge. Its cost is something you have to deal with, of course, but it only goes in against really unfun decks that don't necessarily do much to your life totals initially anyway (Show and Crap, Natural Crap, etc.)

[Star|Scream]

Assuming a meta full of UW landstill and Merfolks like in Orlando, are there SB changes that can help solidify those matchups without diluting the answers too much?

[colo]

I don't have very much experience with either matchup as these decks haven't been around a lot at the place I play at, but I do think that upping the count of Vial (for Landstill) and Stoneforge Mystic (for both) ought to give them trouble. Phyrexian Revoker is a generally very useful card that should be a house against both of them as well.

[Micki]

Llawan, Cephalid Empress is nice if you expect lots of Merfolk...

[Jay_Gatz]

So, what I've been testing is

17 Lands
2 Jitte
2 Vial
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Mother of Runes
2 Jotun Grunt
4 Fathom Seer
4 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Serra Avenger
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 STP
3 Brainstorm

Nothing conclusive yet. Feels strong with misstep. My reasoning for upping the SFM is to increase the chances of landing equipment, reducing our reliance on vial, mom, and wayfarer (our 1 drops), and I'm thinking about throwing in a sword of fire & ice and removing a jitte to help against fish, jtms, bolt, fire/ice, etc. also opposing SFM decks can tutor for jitte and render yours worthless. the sword will probably have to be snuck in, but with more SFM this is easier to do, imho.

The only other choices I need help making is what to cut for the 3rd mystic. I tried daze. Not good. I can only think a fathom seer or brainstorm.

Should we move away from the SB tutor package due to misstep and instead consolidate our answers to beat other blue decks?

You only have 3 brainstorms. Fix this. I've been tinkering with re-building the deck for misstep by trimming one of each cleric and the spell pierces but I've been playing other decks recently

[Star|Scream]

Jay_Gatz: I did fix the brainstorms. I removed 1 seer in order to get the third sfm in there.

I also put the 4th seer in the sideboard along with a third vial.

Micki: Llawan is a terrible answer in this deck because we are hoping to never reach 4 land. Of course, it does and will happen, but after testing, I would just rather have the sword. I'd rather not cripple our vial either if I don't already have a mystic or avenger out.

In testing, merfolk (even with their MM) cannot handle SOFAI in any capacity, unless they bring in a needle, in which case you can simply tutor for jitte. The sword is now and will always be a part of my U/W Tempo deck. 3 Stoneforge mystics will be also.

So we've generally had a 4-of philosophy for the clerics, seer, avenger, and blue instants. In order to cram misstep into this deck (where it does belong, at least a 3-of, probably 4), and add the 3rd sfm, I (we) need to make 2 cuts.

Do you cut 1 mom and 1 ww, assuming that misstep hurts them anyway, and misstep helps protect your creatures from the same targeted removal that mom would help against? Is wayfarer more important to the deck than a fathom seer? Fathom seer can't be used until at least turn 3. If we are wayfarering, then even later than that. Is 3 enough? We do need the seer to negate islandwalk against LOA, though, but the 4th wayfarer really helps us cheat on land, and is still quite integral.

As far as I'm concerned, the 16 blue instants stay. The avengers stay. The equipment stays, and I believe 17 lands is still the right number. In my head the correct cuts would be -1 mom -1 seer, but I'd really like to hear from others, especially those who have tested it.

[Karhumies]

Assuming a meta full of UW landstill and Merfolks like in Orlando, are there SB changes that can help solidify those matchups without diluting the answers too much?

Game plan vs. Merfolk:
Fetch Plains, keep them off 3 lords, countering their Vial is huge in the early game. If you can keep opposing Merrow Reejerey from landing, MoM can hold off the defense and Avenger flies to the offense (hopefully with Jitte). If you can successfully bluff a StoP, they will be less eager to launch attacks if it can screw their combat math. Basically, they are the aggro, we are the control in this MU. Vexing Sphinx can be our MVP (+1 or +2 CA because they don't run removal), if you can land a morphed Fathom Seer first, and go 0->2 islands in the following turn to cast the Sphinx. Remember to bounce the islands in opposing combat (supposing they have Islandwalk), and screw them over. Works only once per opponent, though.

Key opposing cards: Aether Vial, Coralhelm Commander, Merrow Reejerey. Also Jitte if they run it (probably SB).

SB: Phyrexian Revoker naming Coralhelm Commander to grant air superiority. 1x secondary equipment in case they P.Needle Jitte, or bring their own Jitte in.


UW landstill tips:
You are the aggro, they are the control. Try to land as many threats early as possible. Vialing in creatures in their EOT (especially Mystic) is how you could win this MU.

SB: SoLS or SoWP (prot. White) could help, but this depends on the opposing build. Having more Jötuns from SB = more power also helps.

[alrightgame]

I played my first mental misstep build going 4-0 in a local tournament Sunday.

I played against 2 Bant green sun's zenith decks (interestingly enough, tarmogoyf does not synergize with zenith, and both players were stuck with a 3/4 most of the game.)

These games were often decided first turn over a counter war between mother, vial, or hierarch. Late game was simply who could protect their creatures and out race each other the longs. Obviously this deck does the better job of that.

My third match was against storm. I've never played this match up before, but I had a vague idea of what to do. I countered a orim's chant first game, then proceeded to watch him storm up. He got too greedy though, and busted at 4 mana after I dazed his dark ritual. I dazed the rit because he only had one card in his hand, I realized the last card in his hand was probably ad nauseum. Second game, he duressed away an enlightened tutor and I landed a meddling mage, naming burning wish, and proceeded to protect it from there. Three turns later, he made an empty the warrens for 14, but my jitte was active, screwing up his math. He had the ability to kill me, but he didn't know how to play around mother of runes and jitte.

My fourth match was against intuition elves. First game was luck. I drew 3 blockers more than I usually do for his vengivine, allowing me to outrace with angels in the air. Second game was quite interesting. He combos out turn 2, drawing 3 cards off glimpse. I land an ensnaring bridge. He was at three life, but had kill on board if he could attack. I had a fetch, a white card (think plow), and a brainstorm in hand. The turn before I was about to kill him with an angel, he draws a viridian shaman. I brainstorm into misstep and force of will. I force blocks from him with an equipped jitte 1/1 until I could get three cards in my hand, and finally get there.

I never missed spell pierce over mental misstep, and if anything, made this deck better. I always had trouble with removal on mom first turn against zoo. That is a non-issue now. Also, interesting to note, very few people know how to play against this deck. My hardest game was against a player who knew my exact list inside and out. That seems to be a giant plus when running this deck. Here was my list.

4 strand
4 tundra
3 marsh flats (try to bluff new horizons)
3 wasteland
2 plains
1 island

4 swords to plowshare
4 mental misstep
4 force of will
3 daze
4 brainstorm

2 aether vial
2 jitte

4 mother of runes
4 weathered wayfarer
3 fathom seer
4 serra avenger
2 stoneforge
2 jotun grunt
1 vexing sphinx

sideboard
2 enlightened tutor
1 wheel of sun and moon
1 tormod's crypt
1 ensnaring bridge
1 aura of silence
1 energy flux
1 null rod
3 meddling mage
1 ethersworn cannonist
1 phyrexian revoker
2 burrenton forge-tender

[Micki]

Hello again!

First!

@alrightgame: Congrats on going 4-0!!

I'm taking the following list with some unortodox card choices to a local tournament on Saturday;

4 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
4 Tundra
2 Plains
1 Island

2 Aether Vial

4 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Serra Avenger
2 Fathom Seer
2 Saprazzan Heir
1 Aven Mimeomancer

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

Sideboard

2 Jotun Grunt
2 Meddling Mage
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Aura of Silence
1 Engineered Explosives

I'm trying out the whole SM package and that is of course the reason why I play three Stoneforge Mystics. Since I have two swords MD and two SB I hope to manage with 3 Moms.

The weirdest cardchoices are obviously 2x Saprazzan Heir and 1x Aven Mimeomancer, I suppose that more experienced pilots than me have either already tried these or "discarded" them as too bad to even try but I wanted to test something new.
The single Mimeomancer togeather with the swords makes every creature in the deck to a treath and the amount of "stompy" cards in this list is also the reason why I want to try out Saprazzan Heir. She quite easily becomes a question of taking three damage (+possibly something else) or giving an Ancestral Recall, at least in testing.

If the idea behind my changes from the original build works at all I'll probably try Elspeth instead of Mimeomancer at some point.

If you think that this list stinks, feel free to tell me. I'll probably try it anyhow and I promise to write somekind of report after the tournament. If everything goes wrong we'll all have a laugh, I will have wasted a Saturday and I'll go back the the more original build with Jace in the flex spot. Then there is always the small possibility that this list works...

I sometimes think about trying a "normal" sideboard instead of the tutor package, anybody else sharing these thoughts?

[colo]

Iirc, Saprazzan Heir has already been discussed a long time ago. Personally, I think it's a worse Fathom Seer in this deck. I don't see much merit in Aven Mimeomancer either, but I might be wrong on that one. I guess you just gotta test it, but as a one-of... I don't know. It's not at Vial's sweet spot for UW Tempo, either.

Are you sure about Jace? I know this deck quite intimately; reaching four mana isn't a necessity if you play your cards to their maximum potential quite often.

Regarding the sideboard - one of ETutor's biggest drawbacks these days is that it's within reach of Mental Missetp - and you usually only tutor up stuff when you really, really need it. Which in turn makes it doubleplusgood if that tutor spell gets countered... not! I'd stick with the tutor board still, at least in a largely unknown meta, because it's so astonishingly flexible and versatile.

[Micki]

These are the core cards in my build;

4 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
4 Tundra
2 Plains
1 Island

2 Aether Vial

4 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Serra Avenger

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

This adds up to 54 cards, leaving me with 6 spots to play around with. The traditional way to go would of course be 4x Fathom Seer and 2x Jotun Grunt but me being me, I'm always searching for cards/solutions that will put some kind of personal touch to a deck. At the same time all the cards wont be expected and hopefully this will get my opponent a bit unsure of which cards he/she should counter/remove and which not.
Of course the situation might be that as *alrightgame* says, this deck doesn't see that much play right now and even the traditional list might be quite unknown.

All suggestions on which would be the best cards for my 6 flex spots are greatly appreciated.

[Tinefol]

All in all, even though I'm not really developing the deck anymore, if you ever are cutting Fathom Seers you're doing it wrong.

[Star|Scream]

All in all, even though I'm not really developing the deck anymore, if you ever are cutting Fathom Seers you're doing it wrong.

Oh, not even one? Pretty Please??

[Aspirin]

Can someone please elaborate why no Stifles are played in the Deck? Is it due to the high creature count? I could imagine 4 Wastes+ 4 Stifles suiting the manadenial plan very well.
On another note, I think running Weathered Wayfarer and not running Fathom Seer is suboptimal. If you cut the Seers, you could as well run a better creature for the :1: slot.than the Wayfarer. In a Deck with 17 Lands and only Daze left to keep the land count in game low (ok you can just keep them in your hand, enjoy your dead cards), I would even rather have Children of Korlis than that in case of misssing Fathom Seers. And I would much, much rather play a stifle in my first turn than a Weathered Wayfarer. Is there something about this guy that I did not consider?
In Vintage UW Fish I played Stormscape Apprentice with much success. Isn't that guy viable for Legacy, too? The tapeffect (at these costs) should not be underestimated in my opinion.
AHH, ok now i got it: You search for Wastelands with your dude, right? That is neat, but is it good enough? Stifle is an immediate Manadenial for the most time, so why would you leave that job to an activated ability of a creature?

[colo]

[...]
AHH, ok now i got it: You search for Wastelands with your dude, right? That is neat, but is it good enough?

Yes, it is ;)

WW is the reason why this deck can get away with playing only 17 lands. It's a repeatable tutor that works like a charm with lands you have to sacrifice (Wasteland and Fetches), and it's actually quite mana-hungry, so that's why keeping mana open for counterspalls (like Stifle) in the early turns isn't really viable in my opinion and experience. Being a creature also makes it OK to see him mid- to lategame, when there's some piece of equipment available, ready to start combat shenanigans. Stifle's mana-denial aspect wouldn't be that important in a deck like UW Tempo, because it's attacking your opponent's mana-base in a more reactive (yet still quite crushing - you run virtual seven wastelands, and four of them tutor the other three!) manner.

[Star|Scream]

AHH, ok now i got it: You search for Wastelands with your dude, right? That is neat, but is it good enough? Stifle is an immediate Manadenial for the most time, so why would you leave that job to an activated ability of a creature?

Like Colo said, the most important fact about running wayfarer is that it lets you play with a deck with only 17 lands. It's fetchland 8-11 to use in conjunction with brainstorm, and even when you're just pulling fetchlands later on, it's still very real deck thinning. Late game you pull a flooded strand and crack it to pull a plains. Eventually you're drawing nothing but spells. It's funny hearing your opponent say "Draw some lands!!!" when you keep "topdecking" gas.

[dirtyapes]

WW also has really good synergy with Grunt. Grunt keeps putting cards on the bottom and WW gives you a way to shuffle every turn if you need to. Recurring Wastes from the bottom of the deck has helped me win games I had no business being in because I played 7-8 Wastelands in 1 game. This list is really tight because of the creatures that are played and how they work together. Cutting anything from the base 57 or so cards usually means you are doing something wrong or you actually want to play a different deck.

[Star|Scream]

Cutting anything from the base 57 or so cards usually means you are doing something wrong or you actually want to play a different deck.

I don't see how you can say this since the deck hasn't been "officially" updated since Misstep came out, and I for one believe each card choice and quantity needs to be discussed in-depth.

In my testing:

Misstep is great (duh.) I want 4.

Mom isn't as strong as before, and given the choice between vial, wayfarer, and her, I will go for vial (on play) and possibly wayfarer on the draw first. Misstep also helps protect against stp/bolt. I think we can safely cut 1 Mother of Runes.

Countering our vial is no longer a negative proposition for other blue decks (misstep). I think I'd like an extra one.

I also believe that adding another mystic speeds up the equipment role of the deck, and is an additional must-counter. With an extra mystic, we have a much easier time getting one past summoning sickness, and therefore....

I believe maindeck sword of fire and ice is better than the 2nd jitte. Most importantly it gets you past Merfolk game 1. It also protects your avenger from sower, jace bounce, bolt, lavamancer. You know, all the cards blue decks play. Merfolk can dismember your creature next turn, but they have a hard time
handling the creature and the sword.

You won't lose BOTH your creatures and equipment with a resolved explosives at 2 as you would with Jitte.
We still have to watch out for Deed, but if they want the sword they (may) have to take out their own knights as well. Team America could care less, however.

So in order to run my suggestions I had to cut one more card. And so far I've been testing Fathom Seer as the 3-of. I rarely want to see Seer in my opener. I realize the card advantage and surprise this card provides, but honestly if I'm doing wayfarer shenanigans and trying to get my equipment going, I just don't have the resources to pay the 3 until turn 4 or even later. I think that's plenty of time to draw or brainstorm into one. If I'm wrong, please let me know, but please give me a good reason that we need to definitely run 4 other than "it draws 2 cards,"

[spedn7]

I use to play this deck before the NPH and was wondering what type of list people are testing and what cards are being considered the most

[Star|Scream]

I use to play this deck before the NPH and was wondering what type of list people are testing and what cards are being considered the most

I'll post my list in a day or two, but I pretty-much outlined what I'm liking above. 3 vial, 3 mystic 1 sof&i, 1 jitte, 4 misstep, 3 mom, 3 fathom.

I may be wrong on the fathom, but not sure what else to cut. Maybe a wayfarer?

Also I'm thinking of a less diverse sideboard with more redundancy. Maybe only 2 enlightened tutor with the rest as 3 ofs to give me effectively 5 of any one piece of sideboard hate without the need to absolutely rely on resolving the tutor, which will get misstepped way too often.

[Micki]

If we increase the Mystic count to 3 or maybe even 4? Wouldn't Batterskull be something to consider,
a 4/4 with lifelink and vigilance for 1W sounds quite nice?

Another "weird" card I thought of (I obviously enjoy being told how stupid my ideas are) is Silver Drake. It would let us re-use Mystic and Seer, and correct me if I'm wrong (since rules aren't my strong side either) but couldn't Drake be vialed in to bounce something back to your hand in response to StoP or bolt and other removal?

One more question while I'm at it, does Phyrexian Metamorph count as a blue card (FoW)?

[Koby]

I'm not sure Batterskull is the best fit for an aggro deck; but it does seem like a nice bonus.

RE: Silver Drake, yes you are correct. His ability will trigger just like Flickerwisp from Vial.

Phyrexian Metamorph is indeed blue for the purpose of Force of Will.

[colo]

Another "weird" card I thought of (I obviously enjoy being told how stupid my ideas are) is Silver Drake. It would let us re-use Mystic and Seer, and correct me if I'm wrong (since rules aren't my strong side either) but couldn't Drake be vialed in to bounce something back to your hand in response to StoP or bolt and other removal?

There's Stonecloaker these days, which is quite abundantly better at what Silver Drake does (apart from pitching to Force of Will, but yeah - both Flash and built-in graveyard-hate are huge). It's not seeing play any more since combat damage doesn't go on the stack though.

[Star|Scream]

If we increase the Mystic count to 3 or maybe even 4? Wouldn't Batterskull be something to consider,
a 4/4 with lifelink and vigilance for 1W sounds quite nice?

Another "weird" card I thought of (I obviously enjoy being told how stupid my ideas are) is Silver Drake. It would let us re-use Mystic and Seer, and correct me if I'm wrong (since rules aren't my strong side either) but couldn't Drake be vialed in to bounce something back to your hand in response to StoP or bolt and other removal?

One more question while I'm at it, does Phyrexian Metamorph count as a blue card (FoW)?

Your ideas aren't stupid. These are my personal observations, and I'm a total noob so I may be off, but I took out sphinx to cram misstep into the deck, so I have no 3cc creatures (except morph, but that doesn't count), and I never want to tick vial past 2. That being said, if you want to make your deck more like a blue and taxes, that's totally cool, but probably stonecloaker would be better as Colo states. It's not blue, but it can be a pseudo-counter for removal just like the drake.

[Micki]

@Star|Scream, Thank you :)

This is the list I'm playing in Saturdays tournament;

4 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
4 Tundra
2 Plains
1 Island

3 Aether Vial

4 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Mother of Runes
3 Fathom Seer
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Serra Avenger

1 Aven Mimeomancer / Silver Drake
1 Jace, The Mind Sculptor

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull


Sideboard

3 Meddling Mage
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Jotun Grunt
2 Enlightning Tutor
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Aura of Silence
1 Phyrexian Metamorph / Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of War and Peace / Sword of Light and Shadow

61 cards MD, but I'll cut something after the tourney. There's a million cards I would like to try both MD and SB but the only issues I want to decide for this Saturday is MD Mimeomancer or Drake (Stonecloaker is definitely better but I want a blue card for FoW) and SB Metamorph or Revoker + which Sword.

4 SM might be too much but I would very much like to see both Batterskull and an "ordinary" equipment as often as possible.

I am very grateful for any opinions on my last card choices but I rather don't make any bigger changes anymore so please don't tempt me :)

[Star|Scream]

I can't decide!

Everything else is stock except only 3x Mom

4x Misstep
3x Stoneforge
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire & Ice

OR

3x Misstep
2x Stoneforge
1x Jitte
1x Sword of Fire & Ice
2x Vexing Sphinx

The batterskull can't come in unless there are more SFM. It is dead in my hand sometimes. I hate that. But it's batterskull, and if I get a sfm to turn 3, it's often "GG"

or

Vexing sphinx is really good card draw. Misstep helps protect against exile, and it replaces itself or more if they have any other type of removal after 1 turn. The deck draws more cards, thereby feeding the second sphinx, and i'm able to draw even more cards. The Jitte is much easier to cast, stops opposing jittes, and once it's on an avenger it's a 3-4 turn clock. However it takes longer, and I don't really get the concessions as quick as I do with batterskull.


Thoughts????

[Micki]

I play 3x Mom, 3x Seer and;

3x Misstep
4x Stoneforge
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of ?? (depends on the meta)
1x Jitte

and one more sword in the sideboard. I've never regretted gong to 4x SFM, that is usually the card I'm hoping to draw from seer/sphinx anyhow. Jitte is too good to cut and with 4x SFM I can also play a third equipment, there's a lot of bant in my meta so I often have Sword of Body and Mind in my sideboard (or even MD).

[Star|Scream]

I play 3x Mom, 3x Seer and;

3x Misstep
4x Stoneforge
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of ?? (depends on the meta)
1x Jitte

and one more sword in the sideboard. I've never regretted gong to 4x SFM, that is usually the card I'm hoping to draw from seer/sphinx anyhow. Jitte is too good to cut and with 4x SFM I can also play a third equipment, there's a lot of bant in my meta so I often have Sword of Body and Mind in my sideboard (or even MD).


And how have you been doing in events?

Also what do you usually bring in the mages for post-board? And what do you usually take out for them?

[Micki]

Last event I went 3-2 winning against two NO Bant and one UW Countertop, loosing to White Stax and Maverick. I played one Jace and one Mimeomancer MD and they got sided out in every game. I side in 3 Meddling Mage in almost every game since most decks have some "gamewinning" card to name (NO, Loam, Counterbalance, Crucible...).
I don't side them in against tribals, affinity or stax since there are no "crucial" cards in those decks (IMO). As I said, Jace and Mimeomancer was sided out all my games and usually a StoP or Wayfarer for the third MM, depending my opponents deck.
The next event is on Saturday and I'll write some kind of report after the event with more details of how I sided.
In my meta there's a lot of Stoneforge + Batterskull now so I thought I'll try a couple of Vendilion Clique to get rid of whatever my opponent fetches with his/her Stoneforge.

Here's the list I'm playing on Saturday if someone is interested;

Main deck (61 cards)

4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
1 Polluted Delta
3 Wasteland
4 Tundra
2 Plains
1 Island

3 Aether Vial

4 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Mother of Runes
3 Fathom Seer
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Serra Avenger
2 Vendilion Clique

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Body and Soul
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull


Sideboard

3 Meddling Mage
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Submerge
2 Enlightning Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Aura of Silence
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

[Star|Scream]

Went 3-0-2 at a 22-man local tournament. Came in 3rd overall in the swiss. Lost first round of top 8 :(

I'm sorry this is so brief. I didn't take notes, and don't really remember much.


I played the standard list except with

+4 missteps, +1 stoneforge, +1 soF&I,
-1 Jitte, -2 spell pierce, -2 sphinx, -1 mom

In the board:

1x Absolute Law
1x Wheel
1x Relic
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Energy Flux
1x Aura of Silence
2x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Enlightened Tutor
3x Meddling Mage
1x Jotun Grunt

1-1-1 New Horizons & Taxes?? It was a WGu sort of thing with mangara and karakas, kotr, but blue added as well. It went on for quite some time.

2-1 I think it was stoneforge zoo? I don't remember much except I boarded in absolute law and I think I may have played it once.

2-1 Merfolk stoneforge and sof&I do what they do.

2-0 UWr stoneforge deck. swords on lavamancers and sof&i shined.

Round 5 ID with #1 spot 4-0 guy.

Top 8 against the same UWr deck I faced in Round 4:

I kept a one land hand with wayfarer & brainstorm g1. Neither of them worked to find me my second land. Lavamancer killed any chance I had to keep a mystic on board long enough to get out some equipment. Jace bounced the only thing I could keep on board--avenger.

Game 2 my opponent got a manriki-gusari and took out any chance I had of getting a soF&I to connect.


I wish I had more to write about each match, but really all of the matches blended together. Honestly it wasn't much different than in testing on MWS, except I actually faced much less JTMS than what's online.

I will go over my choices:

Absolute law: I expected a lot of red, including goblins, RUG or fire/ice decks. Our creatures need to stay active for at least a turn or two to get this deck going. With grunt being the only un-boltable creature, and going to 3 moms, I wanted something that could help against lavamancer and fire/ice.

relic, wheel, grunt: 3 slots for graveyard hate, painter servant hate, goyf and kotr shrinkers.

Metamorph: I removed karakas from my list after drawing it naturally one-too many times in testing, and never using it. It's only useful against sneaked-emrakul or kira/teeg. So I conceded game 1 against any legendary bomb and gave myself 4 (virtual) outs to them in the board. I never got to use it.

Energy Flux: Oops, I win against affinity, and it does almost as well against MUD and sometimes STAX.

Aura of Silence: My only non-creature removal. I don't like this card. It's too slow and really doesn't hose anything that Energy flux also hoses except Enchantress... And that's not really a hose because they can play around it. I honestly might want seal of cleansing better, or (seeing how well it did against me) Manriki-Gusari.

2x Canonist: Elves and Storm. Won't leave home without her.

3x Enlightened Tutor: I wanted to have 5 virtual copies of any sb strategy. In the end I didn't play against any "unfair" decks so I really didn't use the card that often. I opted for Meddling mage and the 3rd grunt the most.

3x Meddling Mage: I chose the mage over revoker because the mage is blue, can't be targeted by qasali, and can actually attack into a stoneforge without dying. The downside is the mage can't shut off permanents that are already on the board or be vialed in "in response" to playing jace. But they are blue!!!


So my thoughts: I like this deck! As I see it there are 5 cards up for debate. They are:

2x Vexing Sphinx
2x Mental Misstep
3rd Stoneforge Mystic
3rd Vial
1x Batterskull vs. 1x Sword of Fire & Ice

If 2x Misstep take the place of spell pierce, then really we need to decide how many more missteps to run. If we run 4, do we get rid of the sphinx altogether?

Is it wrong to run 3 SFM with only 2 maindeck targets?

If we run 3 SFM should we have utility equipment (gusari, soL&S) in the SB?

Is batterskull better against the field than SoF&I? (p.s. stoneforge just got banned in Standard so that should lower batterskull prices!)

If everyone is running UX/x with misstep would it be wiser to run more vial in hopes to stick one? I hate drawing one after one is in play though!!

Also, what's the best way to deal with JTMS? O-ring, revoker, original jace, lol?

I really hope we can revive this thread.

[from Cairo]

So my thoughts: I like this deck! As I see it there are 5 cards up for debate. They are:

2x Vexing Sphinx
2x Mental Misstep
3rd Stoneforge Mystic
3rd Vial
1x Batterskull vs. 1x Sword of Fire & Ice



I might add 2nd MD Jotun Grunt to the list of "up for debate". Tarmogoyf is a lot less ubiquitous than it's been in the past - the meta's moved much more toward Stoneforge Mystic being the definitive two drop.

I'd still probably run 2-3 Grunt between the main and side, but I could see dropping one from the main. I'm currently trying 1x MD Grunt and swapped the 2nd to Stoneforge Mystic #3. In doing so I've added the 2nd Grunt to the board for the match ups where a 2cc 4/4 is particularly good such as against Tarmogoyf decks.

I'd also consider Sword of Body and Mind as an additional piece of utility equipment that is potentially fighting for a slot in the deck. With decks like Merfolk, Maverick and Team America putting up solid top 8s. And hard to deal with U/G cards like Jace the Mind Sculptor, and Knight of the Reliquary being prominent in meta, Sword of Body and Mind gives pretty relevant protections. With the addition of Mental Misstep to help protect the body one is equipping from being removed in response (ie Swords to Plowshares / Lightning Bolt) the need for pro:W/R is mitigated a bit. Not totally sold on it, but I think it deserves consideration.



If 2x Misstep take the place of spell pierce, then really we need to decide how many more missteps to run. If we run 4, do we get rid of the sphinx altogether?



I'm currently trying 3x Mental Misstep - dropping 2x Spell Pierce and 1x Mother of Runes. They serve a somewhat similar function of protecting bodies you're trying to equip from removal. Misstep has the nice perk of being able to gain you tempo against agro getting turn 1 Nacatls, Lackeys, Vials, while providing Lightning Bolt and Swords to Plowshares protection and hitting some good cards against Combo decks.



Is it wrong to run 3 SFM with only 2 maindeck targets?



I think that's fine. Personally for Stoneforge Mystic ratios I like: 4 SFM / 3 Equip, 3 SFM / 3 Equip, or 3 SFM / 2 Equip.



If we run 3 SFM should we have utility equipment (gusari, soL&S) in the SB?



I think utility equipment has some merit, you have access to a powerful tutor effect if there's some back breaking tutor target against a popular archetype it probably makes sense to give it a slot in the 75.



Is batterskull better against the field than SoF&I? (p.s. stoneforge just got banned in Standard so that should lower batterskull prices!)



I don't think they're really comparable. Batterskull is a great pull from behind card, especially against agro - where Sword of Fire and Ice is a great way to maintain positive board state/pressure.

Batterskull is better against agro than Sword of Fire and Ice - the lifelink and vigilance can pull you ahead quickly. My only real issue with Batterskull is that it's virtually uncastable in the deck if you can't Stoneforge Mystic 'vial' it into play. Given the heart of the deck is Weathered Wayfarer and his interactions with Fathom Seer and Daze hitting 5 mana in UW Tempo is often unrealistic. Granted we have Mother of Runes and Mental Misstep to protect Stoneforge Mystic, but in the situations where we draw Batterskull naturally or SFM is removed, Batterskull is a blank. This isn't the case in the other decks utilizing Batterskull - all the UW Caw Blade ports, even Maverick if they're running it have Noble Hierarch and more lands to somewhat realistically cast it.

Sword of Fire and Ice is really powerful against control, combo or when one has a dominant board state - an extra 4 damage and another card to hand is a great way to speed up one's clock and stay in control.



If everyone is running UX/x with misstep would it be wiser to run more vial in hopes to stick one? I hate drawing one after one is in play though!!



I'm leaning towards keeping Aether Vial count at 3x. As you've stated there's a lot of Mental Misstep running around, and Aether Vial makes our Mother of Runes and Stoneforge Mystics alot more potent. It's a card I'm always happy to see 1 of, especially early in the game - Brainstorming additional copies back into the library is often an option in the later game.



Also, what's the best way to deal with JTMS? O-ring, revoker, original jace, lol?



Again, I think Sword of Body and Mind deserves some consideration in addition to the cards you mentioned. It has fairly powerful application against Jace the Mind Sculptor, in addition to helping race Merfolk (if you can keep LOA/your Islands off the table) and Maverick. Admittedly the mill effect is mostly garbage, but punching through U/G guys for an extra 2 damage and then getting a 2/2 body that can have the Sword equipped to it post combat for a 4/4 pro:U/G blocker can dig you out of some situations.

I'm still messing around with a list some, but currently am trying:

// Lands 17
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
2 Plains
1 Island

// Creatures 19
4 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Serra Avenger
4 Fathom Seer
3 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Jotun Grunt

// Instants 18
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep
3 Daze

// Artifacts 6
3 AEther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Body and Mind

// Sideboard
3 Meddling Mage
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Jotun Grunt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Aura of Silence
1 Phyrexian Metamorph

I think this deck still has a lot of fire power in the current meta. Obviously Blue has always been a definitive color in the format and UW Tempo runs a collection of the most busted cards in the color. Blue based tempo decks have gained a lot from the printing of Mental Misstep and I feel like it fits here as well as any place.

It seems like the format is catching on to how much power White has at it's disposal now as well. Up until the past 6mo or so people have looked at White as Swords to Plowshares. Stoneforge Mystic and Mother of Runes are starting to be more appreciated for their strength.

[Star|Scream]

Cairo: Thanks for the feedback.

I've been testing (online at least) 3x spell pierce in the board. I really haven't been disappointed. Granted I just put them in there, but they can really help against dedicated control decks to push through our threats or counter jace, deed, shackles. However if I up my vials to 3 I might have a better chance to resolve my mages. Will test.


With only 17 blue sources main do you ever find yourself blue-less for FOW?

[from Cairo]

With only 17 blue sources main do you ever find yourself blue-less for FOW?

I have 18 (10 Counters, 4 BS, 4 FS), but the short answer would be yes.

To elaborate, most of the Blue cards in the deck are important situationally anyway. I try to bear Force of Will in mind when making my choices on playing out Blue cards. Holding Brainstorm very conservatively versus decks I know have must-FoW-bombs. Daze and Mental Misstep help hit a bunch of issue cards, but versus NO, SnT, or Jace I tend to let removal or less relevant creatures resolve to have an out.

Post board the deck can adapt easily to support or neglect Force of Will depending on the match up. IE some number of Force can be boarded out against fair/agro decks where Jotun Grunts, SoFaF, Relic and/or Revoker are often helping more. And Meddling Mage comes in over some non-Blue cards (often StP and/or SoBaM) versus decks that one really needs Force of Will buffing my Blue count to 21.

[Star|Scream]

I have 18 (10 Counters, 4 BS, 4 FS), but the short answer would be yes.

To elaborate, most of the Blue cards in the deck are important situationally anyway. I try to bear Force of Will in mind when making my choices on playing out Blue cards. Holding Brainstorm very conservatively versus decks I know have must-FoW-bombs. Daze and Mental Misstep help hit a bunch of issue cards, but versus NO, SnT, or Jace I tend to let removal or less relevant creatures resolve to have an out.

Post board the deck can adapt easily to support or neglect Force of Will depending on the match up. IE some number of Force can be boarded out against fair/agro decks where Jotun Grunts, SoFaF, Relic and/or Revoker are often helping more. And Meddling Mage comes in over some non-Blue cards (often StP and/or SoBaM) versus decks that one really needs Force of Will buffing my Blue count to 21.

Sorry, I mis-counted. For some reason i can't add.

I can't argue with the sideboard. I'm not sure if I want 3 equipment maindeck, and I find the grunt really gives us a chance and surprise against "win game 1" decks like dredge and aggro loam. So I think I may stick with 2 equip + 2 grunts, but I can def see cutting the 4th misstep. Although it has a use nearly every game, sometimes I'd rather have a threat out or a vial, or even spell pierce.

Which brings me to: Do you think that the mage is more important than spell pierce? If the SB has 3 open blue spots, which is better? They both do much of the same thing, except the mage can shut off everything and wear equipment while SP isn't vulnerable to removal, costs less, but can't hit creatures... Bear in mind I just bought a playset of mages so I'm really itchin to use them. hehe

[Star|Scream]

Help! I can't find a 4th Tundra. Is it better to put in a an extra island, plains, wasteland, or a singleton karakas?

[Scordata]

The manabase is optimal. Remember this is designed to be a competative deck.

Run a hallowed fountain, even though it sucks. Extra basics will mess up how the deck works.

[Star|Scream]

The manabase is optimal. Remember this is designed to be a competative deck.

Run a hallowed fountain, even though it sucks. Extra basics will mess up how the deck works.

I've tried it with 1 fountain and I really don't like it. I very rarely have more than 3 lands out, so the 3 tundras or 2 tundra 1 basic work well. Wayfarer sticking means I can get anything I need.

the biggest problem with fountain is seen when using daze and fathom seer. the 2 life isn't so bad. But the 2 life after a daze, and then again after a seer, plus misstep damage.... I think I'd rather be color-screwed occasionally.

[Scordata]

http://www.dacardworld.com/gaming/mtg-3rd-ed-revised-single-tundra-unplayed-nm-mt?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=Google_Base

There, I found you a tundra.
Don't run karakas. A fetchland is probably your next best option.

[sco0ter]

I plan to play this deck, too. (at kitchen table)

What do you think about Meddling Mage + Gitaxian Probe interaction or StifleNought in Maindeck?

Also, what do you think about Leonin Relic-Warder and Ninja of the Deep Hours?

[Star|Scream]

I plan to play this deck, too. (at kitchen table)

What do you think about Meddling Mage + Gitaxian Probe interaction or StifleNought in Maindeck?

Also, what do you think about Leonin Relic-Warder and Ninja of the Deep Hours?

If you are just playing casually, why not run land tax instead of wayfarer?

Scordata:

Thanks for finding a Tundra for me. However I cannot afford to purchase a Tundra by the time the next tournament rolls around. I hate to be suboptimal but in this case I have to be. I hope you can understand.

[sco0ter]

If you are just playing casually, why not run land tax instead of wayfarer?


because I want to play Legacy-legal and don't want to get claimed for playing unfair/banned cards. On a second note I want to see if the decks I build or play work as Legacy decks, since there is no point for anybody to discuss decks which run 4 Demonic Tutor and 4 Land Tax. I mean I'd get better feeback if I share some thoughts here, than in a casual forum where people would suggest suboptimal cards.

[Star|Scream]

because I want to play Legacy-legal and don't want to get claimed for playing unfair/banned cards. On a second note I want to see if the decks I build or play work as Legacy decks, since there is no point for anybody to discuss decks which run 4 Demonic Tutor and 4 Land Tax. I mean I'd get better feeback if I share some thoughts here, than in a casual forum where people would suggest suboptimal cards.

All I was getting at is: You are either playing non-competitive legacy OR you are playing kitchen-table casual. If the latter, then they should have no problem with you playing land tax. When I play against casual players, I play against stuff like necropotence, strip mine, demonic tutor, etc often. I find people who play casual magic don't tend to tune their decks so much, and if they have 4 broken cards in it, most of the time it really isn't unfair. Demonic tutor isn't so terrible when it's getting a 10 mana card that you can counterspell for 2 mana. I find that Force of will is probably the one card that upsets casual folks the most, more than anything on the banned list.

Now if you're playing local legacy but just not in tournaments, then I get what you're saying. So to you I ask, first:

Are you playing duels or Multiplayer?

[sco0ter]

All I was getting at is: You are either playing non-competitive legacy OR you are playing kitchen-table casual. If the latter, then they should have no problem with you playing land tax. When I play against casual players, I play against stuff like necropotence, strip mine, demonic tutor, etc often. I find people who play casual magic don't tend to tune their decks so much, and if they have 4 broken cards in it, most of the time it really isn't unfair. Demonic tutor isn't so terrible when it's getting a 10 mana card that you can counterspell for 2 mana. I find that Force of will is probably the one card that upsets casual folks the most, more than anything on the banned list.

Now if you're playing local legacy but just not in tournaments, then I get what you're saying. So to you I ask, first:

Are you playing duels or Multiplayer?

Why does it matter anyway. Actually I don't want to discuss my playing behaviors here.

I don't play tournaments, since here aren't any. Nonetheless I am interested in Legacy and therefore I I play it with friends and discuss it here. So to answer your question, I'd say I play non-competetive Legacy 1v1 usually (no SB). We don't have Tier1 decks, but decks like Welder MUD, Aggro Loam, Sneak Show, GBW Loampox, Mono B Aggro Control, Madness, Elves, Eternal Garden, Rubin Zoo, Slide, GB Rock and some more casual decks.
Multiplayer Legacy doesn't make much sense, since you don't see the decks' real strength and weaknesses.
And playing non-Legacy decks against Legacy feels like playing without (deckbuilding) challenge.

[Star|Scream]

Why does it matter anyway. Actually I don't want to discuss my playing behaviors here.

I don't play tournaments, since here aren't any. Nonetheless I am interested in Legacy and therefore I I play it with friends and discuss it here. So to answer your question, I'd say I play non-competetive Legacy 1v1 usually (no SB). We don't have Tier1 decks, but decks like Welder MUD, Aggro Loam, Sneak Show, GBW Loampox, Mono B Aggro Control, Madness, Elves, Eternal Garden, Rubin Zoo, Slide, GB Rock and some more casual decks.
Multiplayer Legacy doesn't make much sense, since you don't see the decks' real strength and weaknesses.
And playing non-Legacy decks against Legacy feels like playing without (deckbuilding) challenge.


I don't know why you're getting so defensive. I just offered land tax up because when you said kitchen-table I assumed a bunch of casual decks with huge creatures, 4 or 5 card combos, and lots of sub-optimal tribal (zombies, clerics) builds where they wouldn't care if you played it or not. But if you're playing legacy-legal only 1v1 decks then obviously this is a great deck to play.

The warder is a really good card if you need to deal with a lot of stuff that "sticks around." I'm guessing you would have to cut the grunts to fit them in without a sideboard. But without a sideboard your grunts are really valuable against loam. So would you forego countermagic or stoneforges for them?

Also a question for everyone: In the sideboard: 3x Spell Pierce or 3x Meddling Mage? What are the best mage targets, and which should you forego? For instance, which would you name first Jace or Explosives/Deed?

[from Cairo]

Also a question for everyone: In the sideboard: 3x Spell Pierce or 3x Meddling Mage? What are the best mage targets, and which should you forego? For instance, which would you name first Jace or Explosives/Deed?

I like Mage better.

You have Daze, FoW and MM to buy a turn or two against combo, having more disruption (Spell Pierce) for the Turn 1 win is less a priority than pre-Mental Misstep. Mage provides a clock, can carry equipment, and it can create virtual card advantage if you can strand multiple cards in hand.

Jace is a great Mage target - Ad Nauseum, Show and Tell, Glimpse of Nature.

[rayaj]

I've also found that Mage on the acceleration they have in combo can be priceless. I was testing against a friend and found that mage on Dark Ritual won me every game because he couldn't get started between that, wasteland and countermagic. Adding Jitte to the mix just made things terrible for him. I honestly think that Mage is even better than Sphinx right now since we have MM since it also plays nice with Vial.

One game I vialed in a Mage during the combo player's upkeep naming dark rit and he scooped after I countered his burning wish.

[rupus]

I've also found that Mage on the acceleration they have in combo can be priceless. I was testing against a friend and found that mage on Dark Ritual won me every game because he couldn't get started between that, wasteland and countermagic. Adding Jitte to the mix just made things terrible for him. I honestly think that Mage is even better than Sphinx right now since we have MM since it also plays nice with Vial.

One game I vialed in a Mage during the combo player's upkeep naming dark rit and he scooped after I countered his burning wish.

Yeah dark rit is far better than ad nauseum especially because they can go off with an IGG loop or even by raw dogging it. If you manage to get a second one out it should probably name chain of vapor. TES (burning wish versions) may have flame slash in the board so wish is another possible card to name with your second one. If you have them pretty locked down infernal tutor or brainstorm is another option. 90% of the time I would name dark rit then chain of vapor.

Vs Jace decks Jace is probably the way to go because really the only other way to deal with him is beats or maybe o ring if you have them. Then you only have to deal with their removal whereas if you named ee they can play Jace bounce and lock down the game.

EDIT: By the way has this deck done well at any tournaments recently.
? I don't follow results very well but I haven't seen anything on Too Much Information at SCG.

[Star|Scream]

Yeah dark rit is far better than ad nauseum especially because they can go off with an IGG loop or even by raw dogging it. If you manage to get a second one out it should probably name chain of vapor. TES (burning wish versions) may have flame slash in the board so wish is another possible card to name with your second one. If you have them pretty locked down infernal tutor or brainstorm is another option. 90% of the time I would name dark rit then chain of vapor.

Vs Jace decks Jace is probably the way to go because really the only other way to deal with him is beats or maybe o ring if you have them. Then you only have to deal with their removal whereas if you named ee they can play Jace bounce and lock down the game.

EDIT: By the way has this deck done well at any tournaments recently.
? I don't follow results very well but I haven't seen anything on Too Much Information at SCG.

I went 3-0-2 (ID into top 8) last month in a small tournament. I don't think many people are playing it, though, and this is the busiest the thread has been in weeks! But with brainstorm, fow, mm, stp, and daze, this deck is a blast to play and can be very competitive.

[rupus]

I went 3-0-2 (ID into top 8) last month in a small tournament. I don't think many people are playing it, though, and this is the busiest the thread has been in weeks! But with brainstorm, fow, mm, stp, and daze, this deck is a blast to play and can be very competitive.

Lol reading threads is tech. I just saw that there's 2 reports of small tournies on this page.

Anyways I do love this deck. Gush on a stick, back to back to back wastelands from wayfarer, etc. Kinda feels like an old school vintage fish deck. This is my deck of choice number 2 but I feel pretty locked into playing solidarity right now after buying 4 commander decks to get my set of flusterstorm (seriously I wanted chaos warp and flusterstorm and buying the whole decks was cheaper).

Speaking of old school fish decks maybe maindecking meddling mages is a good idea right now. Seems like most people are boarding them in vs most matchups anyway and within the first few turns its pretty easy to put you opp on a deck. I guess it leads to less G2 blowouts though. Relic warder is super hot tech. I've been blown out by that guy when I was playing MUD. IDK about how good he would be vs a mystic deck but with mom or some counters he's could be beast. Not to mention he is ridiculous with vial.

Another thought I had was neurok commando but he is probably too cute. Still vs creatureless decks (BUG still, etc) or with a mom on the table he could be pretty good. From the lists I've seen he would probably replace the 2 flex slots where I've seen cliques, Jace, mimeomancer, etc. Does he solve any problems not fixed by those guys? Probably not.

Last bad idea for this post: Armageddon. I played a white weenie deck that slowly transformed into a UW tempo-ish deck but I kept a pair of geddons in. I would play this over Jace if you want a 4 cc I win card. I've never (honest) lost a game vs control decks after resolving one. This was before UW mystic decks though so IDK if it still instawins vs those decks.

[Star|Scream]

Lol reading threads is tech. I just saw that there's 2 reports of small tournies on this page.

Anyways I do love this deck. Gush on a stick, back to back to back wastelands from wayfarer, etc. Kinda feels like an old school vintage fish deck. This is my deck of choice number 2 but I feel pretty locked into playing solidarity right now after buying 4 commander decks to get my set of flusterstorm (seriously I wanted chaos warp and flusterstorm and buying the whole decks was cheaper).

Speaking of old school fish decks maybe maindecking meddling mages is a good idea right now. Seems like most people are boarding them in vs most matchups anyway and within the first few turns its pretty easy to put you opp on a deck. I guess it leads to less G2 blowouts though. Relic warder is super hot tech. I've been blown out by that guy when I was playing MUD. IDK about how good he would be vs a mystic deck but with mom or some counters he's could be beast. Not to mention he is ridiculous with vial.

Another thought I had was neurok commando but he is probably too cute. Still vs creatureless decks (BUG still, etc) or with a mom on the table he could be pretty good. From the lists I've seen he would probably replace the 2 flex slots where I've seen cliques, Jace, mimeomancer, etc. Does he solve any problems not fixed by those guys? Probably not.

Last bad idea for this post: Armageddon. I played a white weenie deck that slowly transformed into a UW tempo-ish deck but I kept a pair of geddons in. I would play this over Jace if you want a 4 cc I win card. I've never (honest) lost a game vs control decks after resolving one. This was before UW mystic decks though so IDK if it still instawins vs those decks.

Well what do you board out for the mages usually? Grunt seems to be the weakest link, I think, personally, but it's our only real "power" and I kinda like not losing to dredge, servant, etc game 1. On the other hand, though, mages do up the blue count.

commando seems bad because of the power and casting cost. Also I don't think there are any flex slots any more after mm was printed. How many are you running?

[Star|Scream]

Was playing on MWS yesterday against UB ANT

Ethersworn canonist + meddling mage set to chain of vapor = "hahaha noob - player lost"

[rupus]

Was playing on MWS yesterday against UB ANT

Ethersworn canonist + meddling mage set to chain of vapor = "hahaha noob - player lost"

Lol gotta love mwsplay scrubs. Anyways, commando sucks. He just ends up trading or chumping. Not enough removal for him to generate enough advantage. I would rather max out on seers first. Geddon on the other hand is infinitely better than Jace in this deck but both are too expensive. I'm going back to cliques I think. List:

Land
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
2 Plain
1 Island

Creature
4 Weather Wayfarer
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Fathom Seer
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Serra Avenger

Instant
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
4 Daze

Artifact
3 Aether Vial
1 Umezewa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Sideboard
3 Meddling Mage
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Body and Mind
2 Leonin Relic Warder
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Karakas
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Tormod's Crypt

I don't like the e tutor boards. Karakas and abolishers are tests. So is revoker #3. Everything else has been solid. Let me know if you want to know about how I board vs anything.

EDIT: I should probably say that I'm testing playing mystic into batterskull as my main beater instead of avenger. I haven't decided what I like better though. Also, right now I feel like a lot of decks are adapting to beat misstep which is why I'm at 3 misstep 4 daze but I'm considering cutting a daze for a clique. If I had to play in something major tomorrow I would play a more standard list of -1 mystic -1 daze +1 avenger and either +1 more avenger or +1 clique. Body and mind would go main and batterskull would go to the board. I think the board is solid as it is but the abolishers are untested so I would probably do -2 abolishers +1 misstep +1 relic of progenitus.

[Star|Scream]

Rupis, can you explain some of your choices? 1 clique, body and mind over fire and ice, and crypt over wheel? I find wheel to be gg against many gy strategies where crypt is just 1 use.

[rupus]

Rupis, can you explain some of your choices? 1 clique, body and mind over fire and ice, and crypt over wheel? I find wheel to be gg against many gy strategies where crypt is just 1 use.

Sure. Clique could easily be misstep 4, a maindeck sword, or another avenger or grunt. I just like clique. It does a bit of everything, pseudo discard, flying beats, kills other cliques. SoBaM is a bit of a meta choice as it provides better protections vs zoo, team America and Bant. Card advantage from SoFaI is definitely good and I would run it if there was lots of NO RUG or control decks splashing red (for firespout and lavamancer). In general though I like feast and famine better vs control decks than fire and ice and body and mind mind vs creature decks. Also fire add ice is huge vs Merfolk but no one plays it here and its on the decline in general. Crypt is kind of personal preference and so I might be running it when I shouldn't be but here's the best I can do to justify it. Vs Dredge turn 2 can be too late and I find wasteland to be one of the best cards vs them which sets wheel back even farther. Same goes for reanimator but they also play daze so to play around you either need to use a counter or wait until turn 3. Also on the draw if they go first turn entomb wheel is a lot less relevant. Vs graveyard combo (4 horsemen, cephalid breakfast, even welded mud or painter to an extent) wheel is much better but Dredge and reanimator tend to be more popular. Still, take everything I say with a grain of salt because this is deck number 2 for me so I don't play as much as I should to draw definite conclusions.

[Star|Scream]

Okay, so (it appears from SCG) Hive Mind is a real deck. So is NO Rug. Can we discuss the strategy we would use to deal with these decks?

One card that can pull double duty is spellstutter sprite. It's at vial's sweet-spot, doesn't cost UU, and not only will it counter any pacts, but can also protect our mages against most r/w removal. Against hive mind you can easily take out avengers since vigilance and the 2 extra power don't really matter. Against NO decks I'm not as sure.

As for their backup plan of emrakul, o-ring seems decent, but can't hit prog too. Metamorph can hit both, but needs to be found and hard-cast. Phantasmal image can be vialed in, but it can't be found with e. tutor and I'm not sure it deserves 3-4 slots in the sb.

A single karakas in the sideboard can help against emrakul, and we can find it easily enough with wayfarer. Against prog we really need to stop the Natural Order or hope to race with an avenger and a jitte.

[rupus]

Okay, so (it appears from SCG) Hive Mind is a real deck. So is NO Rug. Can we discuss the strategy we would use to deal with these decks?

One card that can pull double duty is spellstutter sprite. It's at vial's sweet-spot, doesn't cost UU, and not only will it counter any pacts, but can also protect our mages against most r/w removal. Against hive mind you can easily take out avengers since vigilance and the 1 extra power don't really matter. Against NO decks I'm not as sure.

As for their backup plan of emrakul, o-ring seems decent, but can't hit prog too. Metamorph can hit both, but needs to be found and hard-cast. Phantasmal image can be vialed in, but it can't be found with e. tutor and I'm not sure it deserves 3-4 slots in the sb.

A single karakas in the sideboard can help against emrakul, and we can find it easily enough with wayfarer. Against prog we really need to stop the Natural Order or hope to race with an avenger and a jitte.

NO RUG doesn't have tons of basics. Wayfarer fetching wastes can keep them off 4 mana for NO. Sprite seems ok but I've played him in other Legacy decks and always been underwhelmed. Daze also beats pacts as long as you have 1 mana open to pay for their copy. If you are playing an E tutor board ensnaring bridges is an option, altough IDK if it's any better than Metamorph. Meddling mage does work vs. Hive Mind. If you name Show and Tell that basically shuts them down. Hardcasting Hive Mind doesn't happen often. Boarding in relic warders is also a possibility to hit monoliths, making it even harder to hardcast it. In testing karakas in the board is pretty solid. It does a lot vs. Reanimator and even dredge to an extent. I haven't done tons (read: any) testing vs NO RUG but I would be more worried about their beatdown plan than NO which is a good reason to keep avenger in. SFM -> batterskull seems like it would do work vs them. SoBaM is probably the best sword vs them. If you can equip one they are out of bolt range anyways and that will give you protection vs their cliques and goyfs.

[Star|Scream]

NO RUG doesn't have tons of basics. Wayfarer fetching wastes can keep them off 4 mana for NO. Sprite seems ok but I've played him in other Legacy decks and always been underwhelmed. Daze also beats pacts as long as you have 1 mana open to pay for their copy. If you are playing an E tutor board ensnaring bridges is an option, altough IDK if it's any berret than Metamorph. Meddling mage does work vs. Hive Mind. If you name Show and Tell that basically shuts them down. Hardcasting Hive Mind doesn't happen often. Boarding in relic warders is also a possibility to hit monoliths, making it even harder to hardcast it. In testing karakas in the board is pretty solid. It does a lot vs. Reanimator and even dredge to an extent. I haven't done tons (read: any) testing vs NO RUG but I would be more worried about their beatdown plan than NO which is a good reason to keep avenger in. SFM -> batterskull seems like it would do work vs them. SoBaM is probably the best sword vs them. If you can equip one they are out of bolt range anyways and that will give you protection vs their cliques and goyfs.

Good points. I have a feeling revoker would work better than warder because it can turn off more than one monolith. Yeah it's easier to kill but it's also easier to cast and tutorable, and also deals with mana dorks.

[rupus]

Good points. I have a feeling revoker would work better than warder because it can turn off more than one monolith. Yeah it's easier to kill but it's also easier to cast and tutorable, and also deals with mana dorks.

That's true. I'll test him out. Anyway, I have some things to say about my last list. Playing SFM into batterskull as the main beater over avenger is definitely wrong. I would cut a mystic for another avenger and possibly even something else for avenger 4. Also, I'm not sure about batterskull over a sword in the main, it's something I still need to test more.

I'm convinced that it is correct to play 4 daze right now. Most decks have adapted to beat misstep (goblins with mox and instigators, combo players switching to hive mind, etc) and daze can still randomly blowout your opponent. I'm not sure if misstep needs to be a 4 of as well. On SCG Drew Levin (I think) wrote about how spellstutter sprite is good right now so if pros are talking about him maybe I've been too quick to judge. I don't know where he would belong though. I think he needs to either be in place of the missteps or the dazes. Or maybe a 3/3/3/3 split of Force, Daze, Sprite, and Misstep. Lastly, grunt is underperforming all the time. This is my current list:

Land
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
2 Plain
1 Island

Creature
4 Weather Wayfarer
4 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Fathom Seer
4 Serra Avenger
3 Spellstutter Sprite

Instant
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Mental Misstep
3 Force of Will
3 Daze

Artifact
3 Aether Vial
1 Umezewa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Sideboard
3 Meddling Mage
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Sword of Body and Mind
2 Jotun Grunt
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Karakas
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Tormod's Crypt

Abolishers in the board still haven't proven themselves but I've never really boarded them in so I want to keep then in for now. Grunt is good vs dredge and friends so I put him in the board but that might be better as relics. I cut the relic warders for the grunts and so I don't know if I'm relying too heavily on revoker (and I guess mage if need be) to shut down artifacts now. I cut the Feast and Famine for Manriki because I never really wanted it and I've seen manriki around before so I figured I'd try him. Karakas is pro tech. Try one in your board. You will love it. I might even move it main (probably for avenger #4).

[rayaj]

If you really wanted the space for FoW #4, I would cut a weathered wayfarer or a vial. Personally I don't ever see going below four forces unless I don't own a set. But personally I'm also not a fan of three SFM or batterskull in this deck. I would probably go 2 and have SoFaI/LaS instead of the skull. Otherwise I think it is an interesting take on the usual 60 main.

[Star|Scream]

I would think about a karakas main if I mained 2 cliques. That would be a good excuse to tick vial to 3. Otherwise I'm not sure it's necessary. I used to use it when I only had three tundras and hated it. In most matchups it's a wasteland-able plains.

[Star|Scream]

Congrats to Chris Renner for getting 11th place at the Pittsburgh open!!!

I didn't do so well. I went 1-3 drop beating Loam, but losing to u/w stoneforge, blue zoo, and NO Rug.

My list was pretty standard.

Chris had some interesting choices main, and hopefully will post here to discuss?

Here's the decklist:


Maindeck:

Artifacts
3 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Serra Avenger
3 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Weathered Wayfarer

Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares

Legendary Artifacts
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Legendary Creatures
2 Vendilion Clique

Basic Snow Lands
1 Snow-Covered Island
3 Snow-Covered Plains

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
3 Marsh Flats
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Jotun Grunt
3 Meddling Mage
2 Disenchant
3 Submerge

The most notable are the maindeck cliques, sprites, images and absence of maindeck grunts, NO seers or FOW, and upping to 19 land.

[rayaj]

I think my favorite thing about this deck is that in a way it solves an issue I always had with this deck: it only wants to see one vial. This iteration of the deck doesn't have that problem. You have plenty of creatures that you would love to sneak into play and if you see a second you can just have one at 2 and one at 3 for the cliques. I love including image and spellstutter in the current meta. I might pick up some of the cards I'm missing for this and try it out. Though I'm not completely sold on leaving home without FoW.

[Star|Scream]

I think my favorite thing about this deck is that in a way it solves an issue I always had with this deck: it only wants to see one vial. This iteration of the deck doesn't have that problem. You have plenty of creatures that you would love to sneak into play and if you see a second you can just have one at 2 and one at 3 for the cliques. I love including image and spellstutter in the current meta. I might pick up some of the cards I'm missing for this and try it out. Though I'm not completely sold on leaving home without FoW.

I know. I went to test it on MWS last night and decided I would rather stick to 17 just to cram 2 FOW in there.

In my list I had 2 sprites in the sb and ran a 1/1 split of cliques main/side. Of course when it really mattered I didn't have the UU for the clique, so going up to 19 lands would probably mitigate this.

One thing I really like is 4 wasteland. I'm glad someone showed you can be successful without seers and 17 lands, because if you tried to argue for either a few pages back you'd get yelled at.

[rupus]

Congrats to Chris Renner for getting 11th place at the Pittsburgh open!!!

I didn't do so well. I went 1-3 drop beating Loam, but losing to u/w stoneforge, blue zoo, and NO Rug.

My list was pretty standard.

Chris had some interesting choices main, and hopefully will post here to discuss?

Here's the decklist:


Maindeck:

Artifacts
3 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Serra Avenger
3 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Weathered Wayfarer

Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares

Legendary Artifacts
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Legendary Creatures
2 Vendilion Clique

Basic Snow Lands
1 Snow-Covered Island
3 Snow-Covered Plains

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
3 Marsh Flats
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Jotun Grunt
3 Meddling Mage
2 Disenchant
3 Submerge

The most notable are the maindeck cliques, sprites, images and absence of maindeck grunts, NO seers or FOW, and upping to 19 land.

I really hope he posts here. That list looks like quite the pile but you can't really argue with results. Too bad you didn't do better but those are the breaks sometimes I guess. NO RUG isn't surprising, it seemed unfavorable when we tested but I'm curious about blue zoo and UW mystic. I still have a hard time believing blue zoo is a real deck and I was under the impression that mystic decks were about even. Bad draws? Did you replace the energy flux with null rod in your board? Also, I think that Chris's sideboard semes like a reasonable example of a non tutor board.

[Star|Scream]

Oh, I punted game 3 against u/w mystic. Completely my fault. I kept a terrible hand with 1 land.

And I ran into a topdecked tower of the magistrate against blue zoo and couldn't hit a wasteland.

[Star|Scream]

So I tested the SCG list for a few hours on MWS last night.

Some thoughts:

The deck feels smoother. I didn't have to worry about land as much if I didn't have an active wayfarer as I would have otherwise.

Missing FOW: This is a double-edged sword. The card advantage lost by not having seers is sort of mitigated by not hymn'ing yourself to stop a spell. Perhaps I was too free with my FOW in the past, but I was actually finding myself with more cards in hand since I couldn't 2-1 anyway. I have to be creative and come up with other ways to deal with my opponents. In some ways it makes the deck more challenging.

Affinity is not a good matchup now :( They are quite capable of playing around both misstep and daze, so if they can drop an etherium and/or a cranial plating, all we really have are 2 disenchants to deal with that. Image can copy another colorless creature to chump block though.

Speaking of image: I like you! eot (vial) copy my opponent's 14/14 terravore? Thanks! I must try to remember I can't equip him though!

The sprites suck until they don't. You either keep open your lands to develop or you drop a 1/1 flier for 2. I guess it's not any worse than holding grunt until he can survive a few turns.

Clique is great.

Did I miss fathom seer? On one hand yes, but I'm sure you've all also been behind, casted a seer, and immediately gush'd to find TUNDRA, TUNDRA. ugh. The deck lacks real card advantage outside of wayfarer thinning (which works a lot better with 4 daze. You dont' have to cripple your mana base like you would with a seer.) but is more disruptive.

I'll keep testing.

I miss my energy flux e tutor sb tho :(

[Purgatory]

How has everyone been faring with this deck lately? I feel that it can still be pretty good, at least with a skilled enough pilot, though I have some points regarding the goodies we got in New Phyrexia:

* Batterskull. Of course, in a deck with Stoneforge Mystic, this can be a beast and it can win games on its own. However, I used to run two SFM and two Jittes back in the day, and regarded Mystics more or less as virtual copies of Jitte, which could also carry said equipment. The problem is that the excess SFM & Jitte after you drop the first one is essentially only a Squire and a back-up copy of the Jitte (i.e. near-dead draws). With Batterskull as another excellent equipment to grab, I found that SFM also became more important to my game-plan in some aspects, since many games can be finished by just dropping an uncounterable 4/4 Lifelink Vigilance Germ. Also, any extra copies of SFM can be used to find the Jitte I still have in the deck, so I swapped out some cards and ended up with 3 SFM, 1 Jitte, 1 Batterskull.

* Mental Misstep. I cut the Spell Pierces (duh) and a Mom to fit in three Missteps, and I haven't really missed the fourth Mom because Misstep is extra protection from Swords to Plowshares, Bolt etc. I wish I could fit a fourth Misstep in there.

My list in its entirety:
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
4 Tundra
1 Island
2 Plains

4 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Jötun Grunt
4 Fathom Seer

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Mental Misstep
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull


Evidently, it's pretty close to the classic list, and if I was to go to a tournament today, this list is probably the one I'd bring. I've seen some people cut down on Fathom Seers, but I haven't arrived there yet personally, I think it is somewhat of the heart of the deck (along with Wayfarers, of course), and it gives the deck a stronger late-game plan. Also, the times confused opponents have swordsed what they thought was an Exalted Angel only to find a little 1/3 instead makes me chuckle.

I'm not sure if I'd recommend the deck to anyone right now, but I think it's still a blast to play, with some very close and fun games. The only problem with bringing it to a tournament is that you have an exhausting day in front of you ;)

[from Cairo]

Snapcaster Mage seems like it has potential to be good in this shell. It has a great set of targets in Brainstorm, Swords to Plowshares, Mental Misstep and sb options of Spell Pierces and additional removal. I'm not decided on where best to make cuts for room, but am looking forward to trying him in this deck.

[Mom]

I don't know about you guys, but Innistrad seems to have a lot of very fun toys to try out.

1. As Cairo mentioned, Snapcaster Mage: Very much fits the theme of UWtempo's Utility Creature concept, plus it pitches to FOW.

2. Skaab Ruinator: I remember someone mentioning that this deck could use a serious beater. This is a 5/6 flying, BLUE creature for 3. Vialing it in is fine, but the additional cost of having to exile 3 creatures from your own graveyard when you have to play it from the hand does worry me.

3. Geist of Saint Traft: 3 mana for a 2/2 hexproof creature that generates a temporary 4/4 flying beater every time it swings. With jitte or Mother or runes to get past blockers, this guy can finish games very quickly.

Any thoughts?

[Bastian]

I don't know about you guys, but Innistrad seems to have a lot of very fun toys to try out.

(...)

3. Geist of Saint Traft: 3 mana for a 2/2 hexproof creature that generates a temporary 4/4 flying beater every time it swings. With jitte or Mother or runes to get past blockers, this guy can finish games very quickly.

Any thoughts?

Wouldn't Invisible Stalker be better than Geist of Saint Traft? It costs 1 less, it is both hexproof and unblockable, making it a much better holder for your equipment and to beat the crap out of Jace (unless the opponent wipes the board or edicts him).

[Star|Scream]

Wouldn't Invisible Stalker be better than Geist of Saint Traft? It costs 1 less, it is both hexproof and unblockable, making it a much better holder for your equipment and to beat the crap out of Jace (unless the opponent wipes the board or edicts him).

It doesn't do anything, though, except be hard to kill. Not so great.

P.S. Misstep is banned and it looks like this deck may get reset?

[Mom]

I literally had to check the website myself after reading your post. Never thought it'd get the axe this fast. Back to topic though, what do you mean by reset starscream?

[Star|Scream]

I literally had to check the website myself after reading your post. Never thought it'd get the axe this fast. Back to topic though, what do you mean by reset starscream?

Well, with misstep this deck was able to drop FOW and still be competitive (see SCG PGH top 16).
Sprites and cliques were added to deal with NO RUG and hive mind.
Snapcaster mage is coming, and I think he has a place in this deck.
Do we go back to fathom seers, spell pierce, and vexxing sphinx? Or do we keep to a wizard subtheme and add a single riptide lab for wayfarer to fetch?

Also stifle is probably a card again, and the vial count should be tweaked. I was running a single manriki in the sb against stoneblade decks. will they still exist?

[colo]

I'm thinking about picking up UW Tempo again, as I need a diversion from my other long-term favourite lists. Has anyone tried some of the Innistrad goodies in practise yet?

[boneclub24]

I'm thinking about picking up UW Tempo again, as I need a diversion from my other long-term favourite lists. Has anyone tried some of the Innistrad goodies in practise yet?

I ran a few practice games on Cockatrice with a list near the OP's, and I'm having a great time with it. It may become a permanent deck of mine. So I will test some stuff out.

[GeoSantista]

I believe Chris Renner dropped the Enlightened Tutors because of their susceptibility to the now banned Mental Misstep, and so dropped the Tutor Board and made some cards choices taking into account the pre-banning metagame.

For instance, he tried to stay away from too many 1-drops, put Vendilion Clique in and added some lands in order to support his higher curve and be less vulnerable to opposing Missteps. He didn't need Force of Will because he was 2-for-1ing the same spells Misstep was countering 1-for-1, and he also didn't need Fathom Seers because he wasn't depleting his hand as badly as if he were playing FoW.

Now that Misstep is no more, I think that Chris' decklist isn't that good of a starting point. As I mentioned earlier, running 1-drops is safer now, so people who likes the Tutor Board, rejoice. Anyway, I tested some Spellstutter Sprites instead of the Jotun Grunts, and I do like this change - more blue to FoW, evasive body, CMC = 2...

Maybe Snapcaster Mage would be a better card in those slots, but then maybe I'll need Mental Note and some better counterspells (Flashbacking Daze or Force of Will don't look that good). Unfortunately, Mental Noting an Equipment would weaken the Mystic, so I will stick to Spellstutter for now.

[GeoSantista]

I believe Chris Renner dropped the Enlightened Tutors because of their susceptibility to the now banned Mental Misstep, and so dropped the Tutor Board and made some cards choices taking into account the pre-banning metagame.

For instance, he tried to stay away from too many 1-drops, put Vendilion Clique in and added some lands in order to support his higher curve and be less vulnerable to opposing Missteps. He didn't need Force of Will because he was 2-for-1ing the same spells Misstep was countering 1-for-1, and he also didn't need Fathom Seers because he wasn't depleting his hand as badly as if he were playing FoW.

Now that Misstep is no more, I think that Chris' decklist isn't that good of a starting point. As I mentioned earlier, running 1-drops is safer now, so people who likes the Tutor Board, rejoice. Anyway, I tested some Spellstutter Sprites instead of the Jotun Grunts, and I do like this change - more blue to FoW, evasive body, CMC = 2...

Maybe Snapcaster Mage would be a better card in those slots, but then maybe I'll need Mental Note and some better counterspells (Flashbacking Daze or Force of Will don't look that good). Unfortunately, Mental Noting an Equipment would weaken the Mystic, so I will stick to Spellstutter for now.

[from Cairo]

@GeoSantista

I agree that the move away from Enlightened Tutor was a result of Mental Misstep and that it's totally viable to use it again.

When Snapcaster initially leaked I was really interested about getting it into a UW Tempo list alongside Mental Misstep. Having a 0cc option put him online a turn earlier and synergized well with the idea of not overextending on lands. In the current format he's 3cc (for Swords/Brainstorm) and while that's still powerful, I don't think it lends itself as well to this deck as it does to Stoneblade and more control based strategies rather than tempo based ones.

Honestly if working on an update for this deck about the last card I want to be replacing (or conflicting with) is Jotun Grunt. He's such a house right now with Snapcaster, Knight of the Reliquary, Dredge/Reanimator and a decent amount of Tribal running around. I'd probably start pretty close to Forbiddian's OP list. There's always those few flex slots that maybe something from the newer sets could occupy.

I still think Sword of Fire and Ice and Sword of Body and Mind are in contention for some SB (if not MB) space, with Delver and Snapcaster now in addition to the ever-present Folk and Jace, Pro-Blue is looking better and better and they each offer great ways to pull ahead of small or large agro respectively. I think Meddling Mage is pretty strong right now as SB combo/card advantage hate, there aren't that many Turn 1 decks right now. Mage can always come in as a 2/2 that chants against a form of your opponent's CA (Dark Confidant, JaceTMS, LftL).

I haven't sleeved this up since Mental Misstep was banned, but I don't think it's positioned poorly.

[Star|Scream]

I agree with everything above with a couple of additions.

I think daze and wasteland should be a 4-of right now. They compliment each other so well, and (I feel) the deck flows better with 18 land. Fathom seer takes 2 turns to reload after you play it, so I don't mind cutting 1 to add the daze.

I put in 2 spell pierce, sometimes 3. No vexing sphinxes.

[GeoSantista]

As stated before, now that there is no Mental Misstep in the metagame, I think the OP deck is the better starting point instead of the one from Chris Renner. It (the OP deck) has arguably 2 flex slots, and so I wanted to discuss some options:

I often think Daze and Force aren't enough counterspells. But I don't like Spell Pierce nor Spell Snare, as those aren't broad enough to warrant MD action. Stifle I can get behind, as it can add to the mana denial strategy or do some fancy tricks. Anyway, I believe the best cards are blue creatures - they are enabled by Vial, pitch to FoW and can carry Equipment.

Phantasmal Image seems good in those flex slots, as it can legend-kill both Progenitus and Emrakul, and can be Vialed in to fight Iona and other Legends as well. It is better than affording that one Karakas just to have it Wasted more than to get it used (Karakas feels like a nonbasic Plains far too often). And (obviously =P) it can copy whatever the best creature on the battlefield is.

Delver of Secrets is just another beater. I'd test it, but I think there are fancier options. Besides, this deck does not have many ways to ensure it becomes 3/2 reliably, as usually it has 4-6 slots dedicated to Equipment and Vials, and the cards other than FoW, StP and Daze usually are either lands or creatures.

Snapcaster looks to be subpar in this deck. Lack of targets to Flashback other than Swords and Brainstorm make me think it is not that good here.

Spellstutter is one of my favorite Equipment-carriers, because it adds some critical mass for the counterspells as well (as stated, I feel FoW and Daze alone aren't enough sometimes) and isn't reliant on other Instants in the deck.

But Meddling Mage is better than Sprite when one knows what to name: Ad Nauseam, Show and Tell and Life from the Loam are some of my most-often named. Unfortunately, it is more of a SB card.

As I had a hard time deciding between Image or Stutter, I chose to run both and move the Grunts to SB, alongside the Meddling Mages. It gave me 10-12 counterspells (sometimes I cut 1-2 Seers, or 1-2 Moms. I like having the full set of those though), more cards to pitch to FoW and a cheap, MD answer to Progenitus and Emrakul. On the other hand I lost Grunt and whatever hopes I had of fighting Dredge or Loam recursion Game 1. I try to compensate that by dedicating the most SB slots to graveyard hate. If those, alongside the rise of Snapcaster-enabled strategies, become more popular, I think I will favor Phantasmal Image over Sprite, and run Grunt MD.

[Jay_Gatz]

I've had some recent success testing geist of st traft in the flex spots. Haven't been playing the deck as much lately but he is a solid creature especially with a mother of runes.

[rayaj]

In reference to dredge, one of the ways to get rid of their bridges if you run image is to copy mom or something and then have mom target it. It's a waste of an image, but it could also keep you from dying.

[preddi]

The better play is to let image copy no creature as it comes into play. Therefore it stays 0/0 and dies as a result leaving your mother untapped for later use.

[rayaj]

That's true, I hadn't really read the card in a while and couldn't remember if it was "may" or not.

[colo]

You f*cking c*nt of a bulletin board!! Somehow, my session just ended in the middle of posting when I wanted to preview, and Firefox teamed up with VBulletin to eat THE MOST INTERESTING POSTING IN THE WORLD(*) so you shall not have the joy of reading it. I could cry. Well, actually, I could bitchslap the fuck out of my machine and the server this is hosted on, and then vomit all over it while it's trembling in pathetic fear and trying to ward off my utter brutally emission of violence by use of its feeble metal coating. BAH!!

(*): regarding UW Tempo

Anyway, I don't have a copy of what I just wrote, and Firefox is too dumb to get the data out of the POST request that he just knowingly fired a few seconds ago. Did I mention I was annoyed and angry?

Now, to make things quicker this time: piloted UW Tempo feat. Batterskull and Meddling Mage to 3-1 yesterday, losing to Delver Threshold 0-2 because I was screwed/dumb, and winning against UR Snapcaster Burn (2-1), UW Snapcaster Stoneblade (2-1) and Imperial Painter (2-1) due to me and the deck being awesome. I don't feel like typing down the list now for a second time, but if anyone feels interested in specifics, let me know.

[Piceli89]

You f*cking c*nt of a bulletin board!! Somehow, my session just ended in the middle of posting when I wanted to preview, and Firefox teamed up with VBulletin to eat THE MOST INTERESTING POSTING IN THE WORLD(*) so you shall not have the joy of reading it. I could cry. Well, actually, I could bitchslap the fuck out of my machine and the server this is hosted on, and then vomit all over it while it's trembling in pathetic fear and trying to ward off my utter brutally emission of violence by use of its feeble metal coating. BAH!!

(*): regarding UW Tempo

Anyway, I don't have a copy of what I just wrote, and Firefox is too dumb to get the data out of the POST request that he just knowingly fired a few seconds ago. Did I mention I was annoyed and angry?

Now, to make things quicker this time: piloted UW Tempo feat. Batterskull and Meddling Mage to 3-1 yesterday, losing to Delver Threshold 0-2 because I was screwed/dumb, and winning against UR Snapcaster Burn (2-1), UW Snapcaster Stoneblade (2-1) and Imperial Painter (2-1) due to me and the deck being awesome. I don't feel like typing down the list now for a second time, but if anyone feels interested in specifics, let me know.

Would you mind to post down your decklist? The latest one on this topic belongs to the Misstep-era. I'm just curious about how this deck has evolved from its glorious Forbiddian and theotherguy era, back when I used to play it. I might give it a spin back, I'm craving for rogue shenanigans.
Also, how's the Maverick matchup? It's the main costraint that mumbles me when picking a deck these days. That shit is so popular here.

[colo]

Here we go (list is from memory since I'm at work right now):


MB:

4 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Jötun Grunt

4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Fathom Seer

2 Meddling Mage

2 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Tundra
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
1 Windswept Heath
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Island


SB:

3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Spell Pierce (suboptimal for sure and actually entirely debatable: Flusterstorm surely is better, but I'm thinking about changing those 2 slots altogether - probably for at least one slot of additional gy hate)
1 Jotun Grunt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Aura of Silence
1 Chill
1 Null Rod
1 Serenity
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Aura Flux


I think this deck can capitalize on SFM-Batterskull at least as good as UW Stoneblade can - it can protect Mystic by means of countermagic AND Mother of Runes, it has amazing drawing power to find answers and the business its pilot needs. The fact that there'll always be another critter around to strap some sort of equipment onto, and it's not limited to a Germ token or SFM herself to actually win the game, makes things look even better.

Jotun Grunt is a house in the metagame these days, as he deprives your opponents of Snapcasterable spells in their graveyards. Meddling Mage shuts out Snapcaster (or, in response to Snapcasters target announcement, that target from being replayed if coming off of Vial) quite well too.

I haven't faced Maverick yet, but I think it'll be a tough matchup. "Fair" decks with a strong aggro plan (and a bag of tricks of their own) were always everything but easy with UW Tempo (but def. winable), and I'd be surprised if that had changed by simply adding Batterskull to the equation. If Maverick is such a strong factor in your metagame, you probably want to have Hibernation and/or Submerge in your 75 when leaving the house.

[nayon]

How about Moorland Haunt in this deck? Seems like a decent way to get value from dead creatures as a 1-of.

[from Cairo]

I haven't faced Maverick yet, but I think it'll be a tough matchup. "Fair" decks with a strong aggro plan (and a bag of tricks of their own) were always everything but easy with UW Tempo (but def. winable), and I'd be surprised if that had changed by simply adding Batterskull to the equation. If Maverick is such a strong factor in your metagame, you probably want to have Hibernation and/or Submerge in your 75 when leaving the house.

Submerge definitely helps, but I don't think UW Tempo is really all that well positioned in the metagame right now. With RUG Tempo being on everyone's radar I think players are readjusting to anti-Tempo deck strategies. People are prepared for Wastelands - and are packing substantial basics, Stifles, Nobles/GSZ->Arbor. Creature removal is very prominent - Bolts, Plows, Snapcasters targeting them, etc. There's just a lot of cards seeing play right now that UW Tempo doesn't want to see and additionally there have been several recent printings that have helped other strategies, leaving this deck falling behind a bit (Delver, Snapcaster, GSZ).

This isn't meant to dismiss the deck all together, rather to put it aside. The meta will continue to shift, a new printing could totally boost this strategy, just not seeing it right now.

[colo]

@from Cairo: I'm not entirely up to date on what the US metagame looks like right now, but here in Central Europe I don't feel like bringing a knife to a gunfight, really. I playtested my build a bit on cockatrice and dominated Delver Threshold two times (I'm not saying this is statistical evidence to support any kind of argument about UW Tempo matchups, but it def. makes me feel more confident about the matchup), and in my local meta, the matchup worrying me the most is probably Reanimator (we've got everything represented from time to time, from the usual suspects like Dredge and Maverick to more exotic specimen like Enchantress and Mighty Quinn). The Snapcaster problem is one you can work around, an doing so will have your opponents end up with a 2/1 flashy bear for 1U - not likely a deal I'd consider.

[infiniteJ]

Hey,

New poster. Played a UW tempo list to 3-1 in the scg legacy invitational yesterday losing to GB buried alive in r1 (won g1 seeing only heirarch and dryad arbor, sided like he was bant, lost g2, mull to 4 and get lilliana'd g3). I beat UBw ANT Storm, RUG Countertop, and Merfolk. None of the matches felt particularly difficult. Moorland Haunt was insane vs countertop. Unfortunately, I went 1-3 in standard with the same GW wolfrun list that my friend used to crush the standard open, and didn't make day 2.

Fortunately, that meant more legacy for the legacy open on Sunday. I finished 6-3 losing to LED dredge, standstill Merfolk, and Cephalid Breakfast with grand abolisher. I beat Painter combo, Dredge, Zenith Bant, Charbelcher, and UR burn Twice.

My list was kind of last second and changed around a bunch over the last week. Any advice is appreciated, especially on the sideboard (which was good but thrown together and could be missing stuff).

2 aether vial
4 swords to plowshares
4 force of will
3 daze
1 spell pierce
4 brainstorm
4 weathered wayfarer
4 mother of ruins
2 snapcaster mage
2 fathom seer
2 jotun grunt
2 serra avenger
2 geist of saint traft
1 vendillion clique
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Jitte

2 plains
1 island
1 karakas
4 flooded strand
4 tundra
2 windswept heath
1 Moorland Haunt
3 Wasteland

Sideboard
2 Burrenton Forge Tender
1 Spellskite (MVP!!)
1 Pithin Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Purify the Grave
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormods Crypt
3 Meddling Mage
1 Spell Pierce
2 Path to exile
1 Manriki Gusari

Sword of body and mind was really good vs the bant lists, which is why I picked it, but I'm open to swapping for Feast or famine. I went up to 3 stoneforge to support the Manriki but I'm also open to dropping stoneforge completely and just running 2 Jittes main. Serra Avenger was a last minute addition, I originally had Meddling Mages and Gitaxian Probes maindeck. The Avenger is worth it for her ability to race and wear a jitte. My Merfolk opponent that I lost to even attacked his Kira into her...flying? oh.

Geist of Saint Traft was a house all day racing the combo decks and being unbeatable for the burn and control decks.

Maindeck Moorland Haunt was also amazing single handedly beating RUG countertop in both games. It drew so many "wait, what does that do?" when I would search it up.

Spellskite as a 1 of was great and could easily be more. Combo with mother of ruins to just beat burn decks...Vialed it in twice vs the UR decks and it was amazing. Also ate a charbelcher activation to buy time for the win.

Path to exile seems counter to the wayfarer plan, but the decks you want it against are usually more immune to the wasteland plan (Merfolk) or fetch nonbasics first (zoo).

The revoker and needle seem random but were good as well. I brought it in to help shut down knight of the reliquary which is a problem creature, instead ended up naming pridemage every time so that I could equip beatdown. My friend walked up vs my bant matchup once and started laughing...I had two mother of runes, some random wayfarers sitting around, and a revoker naming pridemage, suited up with body and mind facing down my opponents Thrun goyf and other randoms dudes.

The three graveyard hate seemed ok but I might find room for another. Having the mix was great as my dredge opponents were bricking on cabal therapy repeatedly. I was fortunate to hit bridge with extraction. I hit the first dredger with purify once in the last round only to have the flashback force of willed...wtf. Never saw crypt, burrenton never was found.

My losses all felt easily winnable. I was very worried about the UW stoneforge deck, Jace and batterskull are tough for this deck to beat. A bunch of friends were playing it, one winning with it. My plan was to revoker/needle jace and try to manriki the batterskull. Meddling mage could also come in naming wrath or jace. From there we both have the similar spot removal except I have mother of ruins and maindeck geist of st traft.

Overall had a ton of fun playing the deck. I want to explore more the gitaxian probe snapcaster build over the fathom seers. It'll also probably let me cut a land. I could see going to 1 grunt as well.

[from Cairo]

I'm not entirely up to date on what the US metagame looks like right now, but here in Central Europe I don't feel like bringing a knife to a gunfight, really.

My meta consistently has: Maverick, RUG, UWr Stoneblade, Storm, Reanimator, Merfolk, then some surprises. Maverick and UWr Stoneblade I don't think are very favorable for UW Tempo, random decks like Bant or Show and Tell that show up occasionally don't seem like great matches either.


The matchup worrying me the most is probably Reanimator.

I think you can shift the SB a couple cards to handle Reanimator w/o too much issue. Depending on what else you're expecting to face the deck can easily SB and access - Karakas, Tormod's Crypt or Phyrexian Metamorph.


The Snapcaster problem is one you can work around, an doing so will have your opponents end up with a 2/1 flashy bear for 1U - not likely a deal I'd consider.

Are you finding Jotun Grunt to be enough MB grave hate?

[colo]

The problem with Reanimator is that large portions of the hate you board in may be ineffective completely - they'll just Show and Tell their fat beast, and that's it, unless you can still cast white spells or you boarded in Curfew. (Or you have lethal on board, or will win the race - but then what they'll do matters little anyway.)

I think two maindeck Jötun Grunt are perfectly OK. If you land them versus Threshold, Team America or Dredge, you're in a very solid position already, and only being a two-of makes sure they don't show up too often when you're facing something that either doesn't fill or doesn't care about its graveyard much.

@InfiniteJ: I don't know what to think about your list. Geist of Saint Traft sure seems appealing, but with critters like in your list you'll be ticking Vial up to 3, right? Also, geist seems to be really sub-par without Mother of Runes (that's the proper name of that card, btw - although I'm certain she's been the ruin of many players sitting at the opposite of the table :D) or equipment that boosts its P/T attached to it. I'm not convinced that it's better than Serra Avenger at all, even taking into account it pitched to Force of Will.

[colo]

Another successful day full of UW Tempo at my favourite local cardshop: With a list that only saw sideboard changes (-2 Spell Pierce, +1 Relic of Progenitus, +1 Engineered Explosives), I arrived too late for round one (having a day job and all that sure is hindering sometimes!), and went on to beat Ad Nauseam Tendrils (2-0), Mono-U Merfolk (2-0) and RB Confidant Burn (2-0).

The first games versus ANT were rather quick ones - game one, I applied pressure early with a Wayfarer (abused as a mere beatstick) and a Jotun Grunt (I landed him with three cards in the graveyard, but I figured if my opponent did want to have a leg up on me in this one, he'd be filling up his rather quickly - well, what can I say: the white giant went to the dome no less than three times :)), backed up by two Daze in my hand. I dazed one Ritual when he was first threatened to dip below ten life, and he did not pay for that by tapping his Volcanic Island (Swamp and Island in play on his side at that time, Island was used for Preordain the same turn). I followed with a Wayfarer'd Wasteland (responding to fecthing is so full of win) and a Meddling Mage the turn after, and had to decide what card to name. I was pondering Lion's Eye Diamond, Lotus Petal and the Rituals, and opted for Dark Ritual (also to prevent it from IGG-looping or somethin like that). Well, bad choice of course, as next turn he followed with land, two LEDs and an Ad Nauseam, though his remaining 6 life did not suffice to get anything going. Game two was a smiliar story, he kept a somewhat slow hand, and was beaten by Mother of Runes and some of her closest friends. I had a Vial at two and a Canonist in hand to beam down as soon as shit was going to get real on his last turn before I could lethally attack, but there was nothing coming that could have stolen my victory. SB: -4 Swords to Plowshares, -1 Weathered Wayfarer, -1 Serra Avenger, -1 Fathom Seer, +3 Enlightened Tutor, +1 Ethersworn Canonist, +1 Phyrexian Revoker, +1 Engineered Explosives, +1 Null Rod

Second match: Merfolk. I initially had my opponent on UW Stoneforge, and his turn one Cursecather caught me off balance a little. Over the course of the game, I landed three Mother of Runes, two Serra Avenger and a morphed 2/2 critter we all know and love, and Meddling Mage on the penultimate turn of the game, naming Merrow Reejery he had shown me earlier off a Silvergill Adept. He had Cursecatcher, two Silvergill Adept, a Lord of Atlantis, Phantsmal Image (cloning Mother of Runes) and a Coralhelm Commander, as well as a Mutavault and a few Islands. Luckily, I found two Swords to Plowshares between all my other cards to deal with his Lords. In the end, he succumbed to my superior airborne firepower - peace only lasted until game two began, however. I distinctly remember forcing his turn one Vial there. The key play in this one was to bounce two Islands with Fathom Seer, and then dazing a Lord of Atlantis (bouncing my last Tundra/Island on the field) although he could perfectly well pay for it. He attacked right after pushing thru the Lord off of his Mutavault, and my two Serra Avenger were already waiting to chew away at his suddenly-not-so-unblockable little army. He condeded right after that little catastrophy. That's what you get for playing too fast, I guess.

Third match versus RB Burn, featuring Dark Confidant and Grim Lavamancer, amongst other Burn nasties. I literally forced through Mother of Runes on the play game one, landed Stoneforge Mystic going for Jitte turn three and a second one for Batterskull close to the end of the game, and started to turn the game around when I was at four life thanks to Umezawa's favourite piece of steel. Game two felt similar, although he seemed to have kept a suboptimal hand that only featured answers (to my precious artifacts) and little business that actually wins him the game by making me die. I attacked with a little horde of no less than three Wayfarers and an Avenger, with a Mother of Runes he could not answer on his first and second turns, and I even managed to push a Jitte-equip with attacking and damage-dealing action through all his artifact hate. The Jitte was dealt with the next turn with a replicated Shattering Spree (my singular Daze would have been in full effect on my turn before, so I guess he played it very tight not to try to prevent the little tool from amassing counters), but that mattered little in the end. I won at something like eith life. SB: -4 Force of Will, +2 Enlightened Tutor, +1 Chill, +1 Pithing Needle (Lavamancer is never to be underestimated)

[SpeznaFlex]

Hi,

I've been playing UW Tempo for more then a year and made some changes along the way. Here my go at UW tempo:

==========================================

// Main deck
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland

3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Fathom Seer
4 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Squadron Hawk

2 AEther Vial
2 Mana Leak
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Force of Will
2 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

// Sideboard:
3 Wrath of God
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Karakas
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Bojuka Bog

==========================================

Biggest changes:
Squadron Hawk + Brainstorm (or Jace) + fetch = card advantage
Squadron Hawk + Joton Grunt = a lot of blockers

Designer notes
The original UW tempo was a very good deck. Sometimes I had some trouble removing non-creature permanents. 2x Vindicate takes care of that now. The deck could probably use another Aether Vial to make it more consistent, but I don't know what to drop yet.

Please let me know what you think of it.

[Philipp2293]

So, you're splashing black for 2 Vindicates and a really small chance to hardcast Leyline of the Void, maybe 2 Oring instead can get the job done?

[colo]

I honestly don't think a black splash is the way forward. Vindicate is a very good card, but it does not warrant the inclusion of as many as 20 lands, a higher average mana cost, and instabilization of the manabase - esp. when you only get it as a two-of. Black opens up interesting possibilities in the sideboard mostly (Perish, I'm looking at you), but I'm still not convinced that's worth it. I have a soft sport for Stillmoon Cavalier, but you can run him without having any black mana sources at all in UW anyway.

Squadron Hawk I like, but I don't think that UW Tempo is the right place for it. Playing it with less than 4 Stoneforge Mystic seems nonsentical, because the little bird is just pointless unless you do have equipment available. It's certainly weaker than Serra Avenger on average, because it depends on something else to be relevant - Avenger is pretty neat on her own as well. The argument you make about S. Hawks making Jotun Grunt better because they die so fast and fill your graveyard (I guess that's what you tried to say, right?) and will come back if you draw into a recycled one again is... let's say, dubious at best.

I don't know how Jace would do in UW Tempo, but my gut feeling tells me it isn't needed or even that good in here; I'd rather try Elspeth in his stead: You plan to win by using creatures, and Elspeth is a lot better than Jace at facilitating that. You already have quite a bit of card advantage and filtering with Fathom Seer, Brainstorm and Weathered Wayfarer (I do agree that more is certainly better, but I think turning an idly bystanding Wayfarer into a 4/4 cannonball each turn is better for _this_ deck than almost anything Jace could provide).

Mana Leak is an interesting card that I had much fun with back when it was first printed. It might warrant inclusion over Spell Pierce or Flusterstorm if you're in a meta that thrives on aggressive, permanent-heavy lists, I guess. On the other hand, having two mana open isn't that easy in this format, esp. in a deck that has good use for using its lands (Wayfarer and SFM activations, equipment costs, Wastelanding opponents into submission, et al.) otherwise.

Oh, and hi Philipp! :wink:

[SpeznaFlex]

Thanks for the replies! I am sorry I couldn't reply any sooner, but your remarks have already been quite helpful!

After playtesting I totally agree with Philipp: splashing black is not helping at all. Colo's reply has also been very helpful. Thanks a lot for looking after my decklist. I have made several improvements, thanks to his comment, but I don't agree on everything.

I DO think the squadron hawks are improving the speed of the deck. Using them in combination with brainstorm can lead to some massive card advantage. The can carry equipment over emeny lines and they are great blockers too. Joton Grunt ensures they're coming back in the deck. Especially against Maverick this can be essential. Adding Eslpeth seems tempting. Yes she can definitely pump your guys, but she isn't the game winner that Jace can be. Besides the deck is little short on blue cards, which are needed for FOW. So I guess every extra blue card helps ;-)

Here is the update for the deck:

// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
2 [M12] Plains (3)
2 [M12] Island (3)
4 [A] Tundra
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
4 [DD2] Fathom Seer
4 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer
4 [M11] Squadron Hawk

// Spells
3 [DS] AEther Vial
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DDF] Swords to Plowshares
4 [CMD] Brainstorm
2 [ON] Chain of Vapor
2 [CMD] Flusterstorm
1 [NPH] Batterskull
1 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [10E] Wrath of God
SB: 1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 3 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas
SB: 1 [SOK] Manriki-Gusari
SB: 1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
SB: 4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration

[spedn7]

I've been testing against maverick and i am having difficulty with the match up. I was wondering is it because i don't have a good list for it or if it is a bad match up or if i need more time with the match up because i haven't played it much.
My List
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Wasteland
4 Mother of Runes
3 Weathered Wayfarer
3 AEther Vial
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
3 Arid Mesa
1 Island
2 Plains
3 Serra Avenger
2 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Daze
3 Fathom Seer
any help would be nice because i just started playing this deck