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Vacrix
11-20-2009, 07:18 PM
This has been a random pet deck for about 2 years, starting with mad kobold tricks, and evolving slowly into this list. I recently got the idea to incorporate retract and then just run all artifacts from some dude who I saw playing a deck kinda like this.

Golem Glimpse:

Mana:
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox

Spells:
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Retract
4 Ponder
2 Serum Visions

Creatures:
4 Shield Sphere
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Marauder
4 Frogmite
4 Salvage Titan

Win/Con:
1 Brain Freeze
1 Concordant Crossroads

SB:
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Reanimate
1 Oxidize
1 Krosan Grip
1 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
2 Vexing Shusher
3 Beastmaster Ascension
4 Tarmogoyf



Card Choices:

MAINDECK:
Misty Rainforest:
Fetchland thins the deck a little, i dont really want to draw too many lands, especially while going off.

Tropical Island:
On color dual.

Elvish Spirit Guide:
Fast mana, allows me to keep going off Glimpse of Nature.

Lotus Petal:
Again, fast mana.

Chrome Mox:
Fast mana that stays. I can also use it as an artifact to pitch to Salvage Titan if I don't need any more mana.

Glimpse of Nature:
Core of the deck. Once it resolves, try to draw your entire deck. Its a pretty straight forward concept, but knowing when to go off can get tricky.

Mystical Tutor:
Allows you to search for glimpse and put it on top in response to discard. Pretty nifty. Sometimes I prefer this to Glimpse in my opening hand.

Retract
Once you have resolved a decent number of artifact creatures, play this, return them all to your hand, and continue going off. Its also randomly cool against EE @ 0 or if you want to protect your Titans in play from STP, path, etc..

Ponder:
Great sifter. Lets me find what i want, or observe the top few cards while going off to see if I can pull off a trick, or shuffle to get better stuff on top.

Serum Visions:
Replaces itself and allows me to do some sifting. This was brainstorm for a while, but i prefer scry 2 due to the way this deck plays.

Shield Sphere:
Tall man. Blocks aggro for quite some time while you wait to go off again if you fizz.

Phyrexian Walker:
Tall man. Smaller blocker, but he stays for longer.

Ornithopter:
Tall man, but not so tall. He can block flying dudes. Sometimes thats relevant.

Phyrexian Marauder:
Interesting tall man here. He is usually either just a street wraith and I cycle him under glimpse to draw, or I can play him out with spar mana (happens pretty often) so that I can sacrifice him to play Titans, or if I have 3 or so staying mana in play, he can play offense as a 3/3 or even sometimes a 5/5. He gets rid of Ichorid's bridges, which pretty legit considering I run 4 MD.

Frogmite:
This guy can play offense if I need him too, but usually he is just another tall man off Glimpse.

Salvage Titan
Makes the deck work. Provided that you dont have retract in hand, you should sacrifice your guys to play him. Sometimes you can pull off mad tricks with 2. If you have played 2 glimpses and you have 2 Titan in your hand with like 7-9 artifact guys on the field you can play 1 (sacing your tapped chrome moxen or extra lotus petals isnt a bad idea either if you are stuck) and then sac a Titan in play and 2 tall men to play the other Titan, then return your Titan to your hand, and cycle a few times. This usually gets you enough Tall men to keep drawing. Also, Salvage Titan is technically a win condition. Once you draw your entire deck (you dont always have to) you can play out 4, and then crossroads, and swing for the win.

Brain Freeze:
Win con. You can search for it with mystical tutor and then win, or draw your entire deck to find it. Most of the time you wont have enough mana to cast it until you draw a significant part of the deck.

Concordant Crossroads
The backup win con. I ran this as the only win con for a while but i found myself losing randomly when I would have won with Brain Freeze. My rational was that crossroads won't get countered as a win condition because the opponent will just counter glimpse. Of course this might be better served as maybe Pact of Negation if I actually fear stifle on Brain Freeze. I have to say though, its pretty badass coming in sideways with Golems and Frogs for the win.

SIDEBOARD:
Cabal Therapy:
Distrution that is tutorable under mystical tutor. I more often then not have a creature to pitch to its flashback too so its often a good bid since mystical tutor usually resolves and they counter what i play. Very few people expect to see therapy after not seeing any black in game 1.

Reanimate:
Turns Mystical tutor into an out to give you a creature from your grave, or maybe from your opponents (like if he dredges Iona without hitting a Dread Return, this actually happened once).

Oxidize:
Most decks resolve Chalice at 0 against me. Oxidize has been a great target for mystical tutor in these situations. Why dont I play naturalize? because if Chalice is at 1 then I can't play tutor for it anyway.

Krosan Grip:
Tutorable out against counterbalance, trinisphere, etc.

Bayou:
You bring this in to support your black. Otherwise you rely on lotus petal.

Underground Sea:
see above.

Vexing Shusher:
Wins games. He's a ridiculously good board choice against control and still counts as a creature when you resolve him under glimpse.

Beastmaster Ascension:
Has been pretty decent in play testing. Usually you have about 3 creatures in play that can attack. If this comes down, eventually you will pop it and every creature you draw is a 5/5 or bigger. It still pends testing, it isnt conclusively the best spot in the board. the thing I should mention is that the counters go on even if they just attack, once they attack and there are 7 counters, the creatures get bigger before damage.

Tarmogoyf
Helps you get there with the man plan.


THE PLAN:
The object of the deck is to glimpse off and draw enough cards to win. If you dont have the hand for that, you can play the built in man plan of playing out titans and frogmites, and smash face. Glimpse can draw most of the deck (undistrupted) about 50-60% of the time. The rest of the time, you play out your man plan, which is of course vulnerable to STP.

Game 1, You try to look like some variant of Bant Aggro via, some fetch lands into trops, maybe some cantrips, then you start going off and try to draw the whole deck. If you do, the game should be in the bag via 1 of 2 win conditions. You won't draw your entire deck every time, actually you will only about 50/60% of the time in my experience. Otherwise, the deck plays a do or die man plan strategy. The rest of the time you will either use glimpse of nature as bait, and then play out a frogmite and salvage titan and pass. Sometimes you can even play a Titan and 2 frogmites, putting them on a really fast clock. If they don't draw STP or Path to Exile, they should lose quickly. Other times you will draw a lot of cards, and just not have the right stuff to keep going. Sometimes you pass, then next turn, play glimpse, and retract, and keep going. Other times, you just draw really dead and just play out a titan and pass. If you are trading with Goyfs instead of getting your shit STP'd then you can sometimes power through via drawing more artifacts, return Titan to your hand and then recasting it.

Game 2/3, You should probably board out the win condition you dont need, or want. Against aggro, you dont really need crossroads, so board it out in favor of oxidize, just in case they play cannonist, thorn, etc. That is of course if you are playing against aggro. Against control, you will want Beastmaster Ascension, Vexing Shusher, Reanimate, Goyf, the extra land, and Cabal Therapy. The idea is to use glimpse of nature as bait (you can still draw the entire deck postboard) to play out your Goyf's and Titans. Your shushers should draw removal, but if they dont, then they or Cabal Therapy can allow Beastmaster Ascension to hit play. In theory, if they counter your glimpses you can still play the creatures to use with Beastmaster Ascension. If they counter Ascension, then use the artifact creatures to play Titan.



My overall analysis of the current list is that it is very inconsistent. It needs a lot of work. I can go off and win in one turn quite a bit of the time, but then there are times I get stuck and have to revert to the man plan.

The pros to the deck are you can win fast, turn 1's are not out of the ball park but its more often a turn 2 if you can draw the whole deck (this is because you only have 4 glimpse so mystical tutor allows for turn 2's only). The deck has 2 win conditions, and has a back up man plan built into the main deck.

The cons to this deck is it is very vulnerable to countermagic. Discard actually hasnt been as much of an issue but it does sometimes inhibit it from going off, especially if hippie comes down. Also, the back up plan is rather risky but it often gets there merely because its a surprise.


Ideally I would like to make it more consistent and cut out the board to beat control. I already have a pretty good aggro matchup.

Thoughts?

Aggro_zombies
11-20-2009, 07:28 PM
Titan and Frogmite are pretty anemic win conditions. The latter dies to pretty much everything in combat, and the former gives Goyf +2/+2 if you play it by its alternate casting cost (making it usually a 5/6: instant, land, sorcery, creature, artifact). Counterbalance and EE do massive damage to this deck, especially if you try to go with your backup beats plan.

You may be better off going black for Tendrils of Agony. Assuming you start from nothing but lands and win in one turn using Glimpse, you'd need to play sixteen and seventeen spells in one turn to win with Brain Freeze, compared to far fewer with Tendrils (Glimpse, eight spells, Tendrils).

Basically, your deck looks sort of like Belcher (very fast storm combo with alternate win), except worse because your plan relies on playing guys and there are very few seven or eight card combinations that allow you to just win, compared with Belcher (seven or eight cards meaning your opening hand and first draw). Belcher is not known for being the most stable combo deck, which is why people usually don't play it, instead opting for ANT.

I don't think this deck can really be made competitive, but adding in more mana artifacts and black would help.

Nihil Credo
11-20-2009, 08:09 PM
Crossroads looks like it could be better as Grapeshot, Tendrils, or even Goblin Bushwhacker.

If you find yourself in need of some more free creatures, Wild Cantor or Tinder Wall can work even though they're no artifacts.

Reanimate looks quite unreliable and Shusher looks mana intensive. Those three slots could become more support for the postboard plan. Speaking of which, while I fucking love the use of Beastmaster Ascension, how about turning into a pseudo-Affinity list instead? Ravager, Plating, and maybe MoE could present some serious beats.

Phoenix Ignition
11-20-2009, 08:55 PM
Scapegoat could be retract #5-8 if you need it. Would be helpful against EEs if you can fit in some white mana sources.

Aggro_zombies
11-20-2009, 09:08 PM
Reanimate looks quite unreliable and Shusher looks mana intensive. Those three slots could become more support for the postboard plan. Speaking of which, while I fucking love the use of Beastmaster Ascension, how about turning into a pseudo-Affinity list instead? Ravager, Plating, and maybe MoE could present some serious beats.
He'd need more mana for MoE. He's only got 5 permanent mana sources and eight temporary ones.

That said, the deck probably needs to add more mana and move away from the Glimpse-free guys plan.

Vacrix
11-20-2009, 10:48 PM
Crossroads looks like it could be better as Grapeshot, Tendrils, or even Goblin Bushwhacker.

If you find yourself in need of some more free creatures, Wild Cantor or Tinder Wall can work even though they're no artifacts.

Reanimate looks quite unreliable and Shusher looks mana intensive. Those three slots could become more support for the postboard plan. Speaking of which, while I fucking love the use of Beastmaster Ascension, how about turning into a pseudo-Affinity list instead? Ravager, Plating, and maybe MoE could present some serious beats.

Legit, I'm liking Goblin Bushwacker actually if I can fit in some Tinderwall or Wild Cantor action in. I'll try fitting it in, probably with Summoner's Pact to support the color a little more. Bushwacker is really legit if I can fit in Scapegoat (bounce all the bushwackers, for moar sideways action).

Reanimate has been meh to tell the truth. Shusher, postboard, actually isnt that mana intensive. With cantrips and the addition of 2 lands, I can usually play him. Beastmaster Ascension, I have to say, has been tight as balls. I'll cut it and see how it goes with psuedo-affinity. MoE seems beyond legit.

Just a thought, I ran a singleton Berserk a while back to use as reach if I just play out a Titan for the man plan and pass. It was actually really good. Right now I'm just testing the 4th retract. If I am running Cranial Plating, MoE, and Titan (maybe ravager) I'll definetly give Berserk a spin again and see how it plays.


Scapegoat could be retract #5-8 if you need it. Would be helpful against EEs if you can fit in some white mana sources.

I will see if I can support some white, but its unlikely. Even with Cantor then I would be sacrificing 2 creatures for retract. But I like that it can bounce Bushwacker a lot.


Titan and Frogmite are pretty anemic win conditions. The latter dies to pretty much everything in combat, and the former gives Goyf +2/+2 if you play it by its alternate casting cost (making it usually a 5/6: instant, land, sorcery, creature, artifact). Counterbalance and EE do massive damage to this deck, especially if you try to go with your backup beats plan.

You may be better off going black for Tendrils of Agony. Assuming you start from nothing but lands and win in one turn using Glimpse, you'd need to play sixteen and seventeen spells in one turn to win with Brain Freeze, compared to far fewer with Tendrils (Glimpse, eight spells, Tendrils).

Basically, your deck looks sort of like Belcher (very fast storm combo with alternate win), except worse because your plan relies on playing guys and there are very few seven or eight card combinations that allow you to just win, compared with Belcher (seven or eight cards meaning your opening hand and first draw). Belcher is not known for being the most stable combo deck, which is why people usually don't play it, instead opting for ANT.

I don't think this deck can really be made competitive, but adding in more mana artifacts and black would help.

Yea I want to avoid going for ToA just cause changing it in that direction would leave me with some version of SI and I want to pursue Glimpse of Nature. Also, despite Tendrils relatively smaller storm count then Brain Freeze, I will not have the mana to cast anything at 4cc unless I first draw the entire deck, in which case, why not play something on color that I can play earlier and tutor up?

The deck is a lot like belcher in that it tries to win all in one turn, sure. Its really inconsistent now. I'm trying to give it a good post board plan really. The deck itself is a surprise. Seriously when I see trops I think I'm safe from storm combo.

I think it can be competitive. It already is against aggro merely because of speed. It loses to discard and countermagic a little more because its inconsistent and I'm working on the consistency.

Pulp_Fiction
11-21-2009, 04:53 AM
These decks never work. I am sorry man, this is not a flame but rather a message about why to not play a deck like this. It falls into the danger of cool things category.

When playing a combo deck this is what you have to ask yourself "is X deck better than Y deck?" Perhaps you are wanting to run super fast storm combo, there is only 1 deck that holds this category and that is Belcher. If you want to run a glass cannon combo deck there is none better. If you want to play a serious storm combo deck, look into TES and ANT. Now, if you are wanting to build this for fun, keep going and ignore this post. Otherwise just leave it alone, if you really want pure speed there is no combo deck that is going to beat the consistency of Belcher. There are also no added benefits of playing a deck like this over Belcher, it is slower and less consistent, dies more to hand destruction, and even worse against counterspells and hate cards.

Pastorofmuppets
11-21-2009, 10:17 AM
If so many cards in this deck are artifacts you don't have much to pitch to Chrome Mox. Wouldn't Mox Diamond be better?

Gocho
11-21-2009, 12:16 PM
My two cents:

- Play Rainbow lands like TES. City of Brass, Gemstone Mine, Glimmervoid, etc... You can't play more than two colors mainboard with your actual manabase, but with rainbow lands you can use Scapegoat, Cabal Theraphy, Goblin Bushwacker, Silence and other cards without adding lands to your Sideboard. Grapeshot seems better that Brain Freeze, because can kill some blockers or do some damage to the opponent if you play it before Crossroad or Bushwacker and finish him with some critters.
- Try Xantid Swarm vs counterdecks.
- Add more defense spells. You can't combo in the 1st turn 60% or more times like Belcher so you need to play them. If you keep in UG you can play Pact of Negation and Xantid Swarm, if go with Rainbow Lands can play the usual protection cards for combo: Duress, Cabal Therapy, Silence, Orim's Chant, Thoughseize.
- You must play a Glimpse of Nature to win, but with only 8 Glimpses (4 Mystical + 4 Glimpse) you would have a chance of 66% of draw it in yours open 7. I think that you need more tutors. You can try 2-3 Personal tutor that only finds Glimpse or Grapeshot, but cost U and can gives you more turn 2 wins.
- Don't try Summoner's Pact. Belcher test it to search for Elvish Spirit Guide, Tinder wall and Cantor, but if you meet a single counter and can't combo this turn you will lost in your next upkeep because can't pay the Summoner's Pact cost.

Vacrix
11-21-2009, 03:47 PM
When playing a combo deck this is what you have to ask yourself "is X deck better than Y deck?" Perhaps you are wanting to run super fast storm combo, there is only 1 deck that holds this category and that is Belcher.

I cant agree with this. Pact SI has insane amount of consistency and the ability to recover relatively quickly from a fizz unlike Belcher. From my play experience with it, I would say it is far superior to Belcher, and you get far more turn 1 wins than you do with belcher. The reason people don't play Pact SI as often is due to the level of experience you need to know what you are doing.

You are right though. This deck is a sort of glass cannon. Right now the deck is inconsistent largely because it relies upon glimpse to win. One purpose of me building around Glimpse is really to see if it can be done. Also, this deck is fun to play. That can't really be said of Belcher, all you do is lay down your opening hand and see if your opponent has force. I hardly consider that fun. This has been a pet deck for a while and I intend to pursue it, but I see your point. What I'm really waiting for is some bomb that comes out in a new set that makes the deck work. After all I'm told the next set is artifacts like Mirrodin.


If so many cards in this deck are artifacts you don't have much to pitch to Chrome Mox. Wouldn't Mox Diamond be better?

I will test it. In general though, I would much rather have 2 land and go off on turn 2 then have a land and a Mox Diamond and find myself 1 mana short of retract while going off.


My two cents:

- Play Rainbow lands like TES. City of Brass, Gemstone Mine, Glimmervoid, etc... You can't play more than two colors mainboard with your actual manabase, but with rainbow lands you can use Scapegoat, Cabal Theraphy, Goblin Bushwacker, Silence and other cards without adding lands to your Sideboard. Grapeshot seems better that Brain Freeze, because can kill some blockers or do some damage to the opponent if you play it before Crossroad or Bushwacker and finish him with some critters.
- Try Xantid Swarm vs counterdecks.
- Add more defense spells. You can't combo in the 1st turn 60% or more times like Belcher so you need to play them. If you keep in UG you can play Pact of Negation and Xantid Swarm, if go with Rainbow Lands can play the usual protection cards for combo: Duress, Cabal Therapy, Silence, Orim's Chant, Thoughseize.
- You must play a Glimpse of Nature to win, but with only 8 Glimpses (4 Mystical + 4 Glimpse) you would have a chance of 66% of draw it in yours open 7. I think that you need more tutors. You can try 2-3 Personal tutor that only finds Glimpse or Grapeshot, but cost U and can gives you more turn 2 wins.
- Don't try Summoner's Pact. Belcher test it to search for Elvish Spirit Guide, Tinder wall and Cantor, but if you meet a single counter and can't combo this turn you will lost in your next upkeep because can't pay the Summoner's Pact cost.

I never really thought of that.. Yea I will use Rainbow Lands, that make far more sense. This opens up the opportunity of MD cabal therapy, which I'm really liking right now actually.
I will try Xantid Swarm. He is more of a 'wait to go off' kind of creature. I've been playing more of a man plan board, but I guess this could be a good avenue to explore.
I don't need glimpse to win, its just the best, most efficient way to win. Titans and Frogs can often go all the way against an unprepared opponent. I see your point though. I ran personal tutor in an older build. It can't find retract and often while I am going off, that is what I really want to keep going. So it got dropped in favor of mystical tutor. I might run 1 just to up the glimpse count. Usually cantrips let me find it or mystical tutor if its not in my opening 7 or 6 cards but I'm dropping cantrips for now to see if i can up the speed consistency.



This is one card that I pretty much forgot about completely in my testing. About a year ago I used this in kobolds.

Rites of Initiation R
Instant
Discard any number of cards at random. Creatures you control get +1/+0 until end of turn for each card discarded this way.
C

Its fairly easy to cast. R isn't hard to come by especially if i start running pain lands. After glimpsing I might draw cards I can't play like extra glimpses, land, etc. So the idea is, play out like 6 or so creatures that can attack (so not shield sphere or tinderwalls, etc.). I would need to play something to give them haste that turn. Tinderwall --> Goblin Bushwhacker has been legit in testing. Then play this for R, discard the rest of your hand, and swing for the win, you can play it even after they declare blockers too. It is tutorable under mystical tutor and allows you to win even after going off and fizzing (provided you draw it and have cards in hand to discard to it. Also, some random synth I should mention; you can return titans to your hand to discard to Rites provided you make sure they get to the grave. It could make all the difference if you can return 2 to your hand and then follow up with rites. If you have 5 creatures, that is 10 extra damage. So all you really need for Rites to be good, is about 6 creatures in play, that can attack, and then play rites, discarding 4 cards for a total of 24 damage, maybe they have 1 blocker.

I'll post an updated list a little later with Rainbow Lands and Rites.

Gocho
11-22-2009, 03:56 AM
As I see, you have 3 ways to win the game:
- Resolve Glimpse -> Storm Card (Brain Freeze, Grapeshot), better vs Aggro
- Resolve Glimpse -> Attack, better vs control, aggrocontrol
- No play Glimpse -> Attack with Titans and Frogs

Which way you need to improve?

Iranon
11-22-2009, 06:03 AM
The main attraction of this deck is that it's often good enough despite not getting a true combo win... especially if the opponent is trying to mulligan into something that would stop a perfect start.
As such, I would expand the artifact theme - Myr Enforcers are very helpful here, Retract also becomes better (recycling mana, saves your artifact horde from mass destruction if you had an aggro opening).
Similarly, I would prefer Storm Entities over Concordant Crossroads - they allow an instant win if you can go off properly and are yet another potential turn 1 threat.

A version I've been using for some time was

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Retract
4 Ponder

4 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Diamond
3 Chrome Mox

4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Shield Sphere
4 Ornithopter
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
3 Storm Entity
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Salvage Titan


While I'm not sure that no Mystical Tutors is correct, I wouldn't play a full set if you paid me. Redundant win conditions fit better into the theme because no matter what we do, this doesn't kill as quickly or as reliably as Belcher/old-school SI.

Vacrix
11-22-2009, 02:32 PM
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Retract
4 Ponder

4 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Diamond
3 Chrome Mox

4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Shield Sphere
4 Ornithopter
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
3 Storm Entity
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Salvage Titan

Really legit man. I like it. I think this could get the jump on aggro pretty nicely. A card I think we should look into for a build more like this is Erayo. Erayo + Glimpse is pretty legit against quite a lot. I'll test this list today and see how it does. I think you want at least 2 mystical tutor, in fact, maybe replace 2 retracts just because retract is more of something you want to keep going with glimpse, I think saving your team with it should come second to trying to 'go off'. Also, in my testing with mox diamond, I have preferred 2. Sometimes you draw 2 land and mox diamond, and you really can't go off turn 1, or you shouldn't try so you wait, and then I would rather mox diamond be something else.


I tested this list yesterday goldfishing. It worked much more nicely than the other one I had been testing:

Kobolds Glimpse:
Mana:
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
2 Mox Diamond

Creatures:
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Shield Sphere
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Ornithopter
2 Tinderwall
1 Goblin Bushwhacker

Spells:
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Mystical Tutor
3 Scapegoat
2 Ponder
1 Rites of Initiation
1 Beastmaster Ascension

SB:
15 open slot

(but probably...)
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Beastmaster Ascension
2 Vexing Shusher
1 Krosan Grip
1 Oxidize
(completely untested)


I'm still debating the 2 ponder slots (testing street wraith, manamorphose, and serum visions), but the rest of the deck has been really tight so far. It has been pretty consistent turn 3, with quite a few turn 1's and 2's. A few fizzes, but I built in a sort of fail safe. If you play out a bunch of creatures and have to stop, you can try to find either Rites via Mystical Tutor and win if you have enough creatures on the field that is, or you can draw into Ascension, and play beats. The cool thing is you only need 7 creatures attacking for Ascension to activate. Then before combat damage you are dealing upwards of 35 damage. Scapegoat has been far better than I expected. It allows for you to draw the entire deck pretty easily where retract would not always. I dropped frogmite and salvage titan because they would always clunk up my hand if I drew too many multiples and that would be one of the biggest reasons why I couldnt go off. I can attack on the first turn for upwards of 500 damage, and its gotten a lot more consistent, namely because you aren't drawing 4 frogmites while you don't have enough artifacts to play the affinity cost. I will definitely continue down the original path with testing Iranon's list (that looks like the way to go with this) but this list definitely has potential, especially post board when I can bring in disruption like cabal therapy, and such.

Vacrix
11-22-2009, 10:56 PM
In my testing with Kobolds, these were my goldfish results:

Out of 50 games:

Turn 1’s: 3
Turn 2’s: 11
Turn 3’s: 16
Turn 4’s: 5
Turn 5’s: 4
Turn 6 and above: 11

Win avg: turn 4. (3.92 on the calc)

Lim-Dul's Vault was meh. A few times I used it to look for Ascension but I would rather have had another creature than Vault in most cases. I'm going to test more creatures I think.

EDIT:

I'm testing Aven Mimeomancer in the board. Functions kinda like Ascension only its more likely to do something when it comes down.