Sculptor Top

[dr.knockers]

Hi,

At the moment I don't have the time to test this, but when time is on my side I am going to test this deck. For now I want to discuss the idea, cause the build I'm posting is a very rough version, but just to get a idea. Here is the untested, rough list;

4 Trinket Mage
4 etherium sculptor
4 Sensei's Divining top

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Pact of Negation
3 Mystical Tutor
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Brainfreeze
4 Lotus Petal

4 Ancient Tomb
6 Fetch
4 Tundra
5 Island
1 Plains

So the idea is to go Sculpter, Top, Top, Brainfreeze. A 4 card combo, so not easy to get. However, three of them are artefacts and thus easily tutorable.

Options for the deck;

-Making a slow control version with the combo. Adding in counterbalance etcetera.
-Adding painter/ grindstone for a alternate combo. Fits in the artefact theme.
-Adding black, trying to kill asap with rituals, maybe more moxen etcetera.

So what do you guys think? How can we make this combo playable?

[Maveric78f]

It seems to be missing some Counterbalances in here. And usually 4-cards combo (sculptor, top*2, brainfreeze) are not that good.

[sco0ter]

I'd try Helm of Awakening and Artificer's Intuition + Grindstone/Painter as alternative kill.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Helm is so much better than sculptor. Even if it speeds them up too, not being a creature is just so good.

[grahf]

I've played the Top/Freeze combo in various forms over the years, and I do think that the printing of Etherium Sculptor gave the deck a boost. Here's some of my thoughts on the deck.

You have a lot of card disadvantage tutors, and no way to recoup card advantage, just cantrips. Thirst for Knowledge or Predict (which works well with Top) could help with that. As far as the tutors, have you considered Muddle the Mixture?. Muddle has been good for me because it finds both Sculptor/Helm and Brain Freeze. However, the 3cc and sorcery speed of transmuting is kinda awkward, so I'm not sure if it's Legacy quality. Seems worth testing.

Also, Freeze is a dead card until you are ready to win, so I think an optimal version would include only one or no copies maindeck, with another copy and some utility spells in a Cunning Wish board. You also really want some bounce or disenchant effects somewhere in the 75, because scooping to an Ivory Mask effect sucks.

I would play at least one Helm of Awakening as a backup to Sculptor, maybe even a 3/3 split. I think it's preferable to be able to just draw and filter into your combo pieces, rather than have to tutor for them. There is also the element of surprise... pretending to be some variant of MUC or Countertop, until you slap down the combo.

Is Ancient Tomb necessary? The deck is certainly mana hungry, but in my experience it wants blue mana, not colorless. There's not a lot your list can do with the Tomb mana - accelerate out Trinket Mage, play Top + spin it, or pay for Pact. Chrome Mox is where it's at, I do use Lotus Petal but it always bothers me that it doesn't stick around.

I think the Thopter Foundry combo might be better as an alt-win, instead of Painter/Stone. Having both your combos win by milling seems dangerous to me - how would you win if your opponent has an Academy Ruins or Volrath's Stronghold? I guess one could play Stroke of Genius or somesuch in a wishboard. Or splash red for Grapeshot.

N.B., fitting in one Ruins is probably a good idea, in case your tops get blown up as you try to combo out. (you tap Top to draw, opponent disenchants it in response... sadface)

Concerning Artificer's Intuition... I wouldn't recommend it. I used to play the Top combo with Locket of Yesterdays, but it was rather annoying to set up. You have to find 3 tops to win, you open yourself up to collateral grave hate, and you need extra artifacts to pitch and tons of blue mana to fuel it. There are no Squee and Rofellos equivalents for artifacts in Legacy that I know of, given that Tolarian Academy is of course banned.

The chain goes something like:
discard random artifact -> Top #1
discard Top #1 -> get Locket
two more artifacts -> two more tops

So that's UUUU to fuel the Artificer's Intution, plus 1U for Brain Freeze, plus 3 extra artifacts in hand that aren't your combo pieces. That's a lot to ask for, and it almost never comes together in one turn. On the plus side, it would allow you to run other alt-wins, like a Dreadnought and some Stifles, or Salvagers and an LED.

I do not know if the Top/Freeze combo will ever be truly competitive - but it does have certain advantages. For one, it is a true combo-control deck. Can't think of many other decks like that. Second, the pieces (besides freeze) do something outside the combo. Finally, an element of surprise: there's more than one way to activate the combo, depending on which enablers you run, and other combos can be fit in relatively easily.

[Illissius]

Concerning Artificer's Intuition... I wouldn't recommend it. I used to play the Top combo with Locket of Yesterdays, but it was rather annoying to set up. You have to find 3 tops to win, you open yourself up to collateral grave hate, and you need extra artifacts to pitch and tons of blue mana to fuel it. There are no Squee and Rofellos equivalents for artifacts in Legacy that I know of, given that Tolarian Academy is of course banned.

The closest thing I've managed to come up with to someting Squee-like is Voltaic Key+Top. Namely, tap the Top, then with the ability on the stack untap and retap it, meaning you draw two cards but only put the Top back once (this scales with multiple copies of Key). I'm not aware of any good way to generate mana though, either.

[sunshine]

You might be able to get some ideas here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5979), here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10040), and here (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3969) - for starters.

[grahf]

The closest thing I've managed to come up with to someting Squee-like is Voltaic Key+Top. Namely, tap the Top, then with the ability on the stack untap and retap it, meaning you draw two cards but only put the Top back once (this scales with multiple copies of Key). I'm not aware of any good way to generate mana though, either.

Interesting. So if I understand correctly, the second draw will just get the Top back?


Also, I wanted to mention the role that Future Sight / Magus can play in this deck. Strictly speaking, it isn't necessary, but can help out in corner cases where you only have part of the combo. With just one Top, an artifact cost reducer, and Future Sight, you draw your deck for free. Then you can find another Top and Wish/Freeze. And if there are Chrome Moxen in your deck, you can win that turn even if you tapped out for the Future Sight.

Actually, this was mentioned somewhere in those other threads. Thanks for linking to them, sunshine. There are some good ideas in there, but it's slightly confusing to read because two different threads with different deck shells got merged into the Sensei-Sensei thread. I don't think resolving a 2UUU card as a primary plan is going to work out so well in the current meta. But it could have some utility as a back up.

A question for the OP: Have you goldfished your list, and how quickly can you go off?

[sunshine]

Interesting. So if I understand correctly, the second draw will just get the Top back?

Correct, there's a similar Top interaction that's somewhat abused in EDH with Mind Over Matter which allows you to ffectively cycle through your deck.