[Deck] Wg Kid-Aggro

[_erbs_]

Hello,
I was just wondering if the white winnie architype is really dead.. I entered this deck in a 59 man tourny and ended with a 4-2 record landing myself 15th spot not impressive but maybe it could be improved so it could somehow enter in the established deck section. I think the deck has potential

Lands [20]
4 savannah
2 temple garden
4 windswept heath
2 flooded strand
8 plains

Utilities [17]
4 swords to plowshares
3 path to exile
3 umezawa's jitte
3 honor the pure
4 spectral procession

Creatures [23]
4 figure of destiny
2 mother of runes
1 burrenton forge tender
4 silver knight
4 hand of honor
1 jotun grunt
4 tarmogoyf
3 quasali pridemage

Sideboard [15]
4 choke
2 tormod's crypt
2 relic of progenitus
3 aethersworn canonist
1 gaddock teeg
1 jotun grunt / burrenton forge tender
1 krosan grip
1 oblivion ring


comments ?

[lebarion]

This has lots of similarities with an archetype a friend of mine runs, although my friends' deck is not so "Weenie". In short, my friend's deck is built to beat Zoo (Kitchen Finks and Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers help a lot here) and Merfolk (not playing islands), and has a good match against Tempo Thresh (few fetches and non-basics), while being deficient against combos. It has a fair match against dredge, too, because of Relics, Tutor and Burrenton Forge-tender, which helps agains Goblins and Aggro Loam.
And, it is so fun and relaxing to play with :laugh:
His list is something like this:

26
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Mother of Runes
4 Wilt-Lief cavaliers
3 Watchwolf
3 Exalted Angel
14
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Relic of Progenitus
20
6 Fetches
1 Savannah
7 Plains
6 Forest

side
4 Krosan Grip
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Choke

[meanee]

Now we're at the "I have this slightly different decklist, I think you should try something along these lines insted" phase of the thread, I want to contribute too.

A guy at my metagame has ben playing a GW aggro-deck to great succes the last couple of months. Really great success. He originated at something along the lines of 1600 rating, and is now at above 1800.

The deck looks something like this, and is actually very strong:
4 troll ascetic
4 tarmogoyf
4 eternal witness
4 noble hierarch
4 qasali pridemage
3 birds of paradise
3 kitchen finks/rhox war monk
4 swords to plowshares
2 path to exile
4 umezawa's jitte/3 jitte and a sofai
2 elspeth
1 garruk
5 forest
2 plains
4 savannah
3 horizon canopy
2 tropical/treetop village
5 fetch

I think it is a better idea to concentrate on the green monsters, as they seem to be very hard to beat, while beating very hard themselves. Cards like honor of the pure and forge-tender simply doesn't belong in the legacy metagame I'd say.

Anyway playing green-white aggro makes for an extremely joyful time. It is all fun and games, and people all their counterbalances just start crying. It is great.
Oh it is not that great when encountering evil people playing storm combo. Good people playing storm combo is an auto-loss too.

- meanee

[dahcmai]

I play Fetchland Tendrils and so far I wouldn't mind a bit to play against this. You might consider moving a couple of Teegs main just because of that. No sense giving one deck a complete bye against you. 3 Canonists is not going to cut it. I'd play around those with ease especially since I know there's going to be no Counterspells.

You do need a little bit of a defense against combo.

[_erbs_]

Thanks for all your suggestions.

My thoughts on running green major
Yes, pound for pound green creatures are very efficient as compared to white but you need lots of accelerants sometimes it would hurt you by drawing to many or non at all. And i find it hard to recover with no draw engine thats why i added spectral procession in my list. I just need 2 cards (1 honor the pure + specetral procession) to revitalize my troops.

For me when a creature decks mull its a big loss becuase you need every card so you could add pressure on your opponent.

But if get the right hand in Gw its really awesome.

Troll Acestic is nice + equip its really a monster. Adding silhana is nice aswell if you plan on running several equipments.



@dahcmai
yes i really have a disadvantage against ANT deck. I guess i'll just add more SB cards or a few cards in the main deck to counter combo.

[FieryBalrog]

Combo is honestly pretty much an auto-loss and I'm not sure if I would even bother using slots to shore up that matchup. If you were to include combo hate in the SB it would be some combination of Canonist, Teeg and Thorn of Amethyst.

[_erbs_]

@FieryBalrog
yeah combo really has an upperhand, i could shift my sideboard to disrupt combo if im pretty sure that i will win most of my other match ups around 80%.

Im still not sure about my list, i know the deck is okay but i know it could be pushed further. Running green major is really bugging my mind i know its really strong but a bit risky bec of over or under drawing accelerants.

Eventhough i discarded the vial route for the spectral procession + honor the pure combo, it could still be used but the deck needs to be tweaked.

[hi-val]

Why do none of these lists run Armageddon? I mean, I know you want to Teeg off the board, but 'Geddon would be a superb choice.

I remember Kid decks from Extended with Eladamri's Call would run a single Intrepid Hero. That guy gave the deck a huge edge in combat.

[lebarion]

Well, just to try to keep things rolling...
I believe there are some cards that shouldn't be cut, at least right now:

Qasali Pridemage
Tarmogoyf
Mother of Runes
Umezawa's Jitte
Swords to Plowshares
Path to Exile

I believe Figure of Destiny is not a bad choice and I'm gonna test it. Also, Horizon Canopy seems very interesting, although I'm trying to use as few non-basics and fetches as possible.
However, I really don't like neither Silver Knight nor Hand of Honor. On the other hand, I really like how Kitchen Finks and Wilt Leaf Cavalier are great against Zoo while not being overcosted. I guess it depends on your meta, though.
Exalted Angel is there because this deck goes to the long game a lot of times, and there the Angel makes the difference.
I also think Sensei's Divining Top helping you planning your next plays and finding removal and lands when you need it, while not being card advantage, is the closest you can get to it with this deck.

I don't like Honor the Pure for two reasons. First, it is does nothing by itself. Second, if your opponent disenchants it after you declare attackers, you just opened your army to a very bad trade.
Also, I don't think Troll Ascetic is any good. He's expensive to play, expensive to regenerate and most of the times he is going to be smaller than most opponents threats. Mid-game when I have a lot of lands in play he is fine, but earlier than that I would prefer any other dude.

I know I'm arguing a lot in favor of the list I've posted, fell free to refute. :wink:

[_erbs_]

@hi-val
I wanted to put in 2 armageddon main but the problem is you could only cast it when you have a huge advantage to your opponent my creatures are not that big, maybe if was green major or running like angelstompy geddon would be a nice addition.

@lebarion
Horizon Canopy is nice but i want to use more basic lands so i could avoid moon effects etc.

Sliver Knight - is not as bad as you think, equipped with jitte he could be a force to recon with. pro red for me is okay since zoo now is rising in popularity again.

Hand of Honor - he is only bad against burn decks. but against rock decks or decks that uses black removal his solid and don't forget he could kill creatures with a power of 3 so his not that bad.

Serra avenger and jotun grunt would be nice if they didn't had such bad drawbacks.

Honor the Pure - the reasons you've posted are valid but think of it this way, which would take as a bad topdeck a vial or a honor the pure. they both can't block or attack both are just utility. I picked honor bec it could benefit most of my creatures as compared to vials.

Kitchen Finks and Wilt Leaf Cavalier are really nice but they cost 3cc unless your running vials or creature accelerants they would come down a turn later. Like what i've explained above 3cc green creatures are really nice but you need accelerants to power them out (eg. great sable stag) the list would be long if i would name them all.

other benefits of running creature accel is you could power out 3cc sb cards, armageddon, etc faster, thats why im still confused if running green major would be the right choice or not.

running kavu predator + invorgate is nice aswell.

Like what i've posted above running green major is really awesome when you draw the right 7 cards.

[Kove]

I just want to add to Meanee's post here.
The deck he listed is seriously strong. I don't think the list's entirely accurate though but it's pretty damn close. He has won several tournaments with the deck, including a Mox one.

Last weekend he borrowed some Baneslayer Angels to replace the Troll Ascetics with. Turned out well as he won that tournament as well (33 players I believe).

Eternal Witness is seriously a real backbreaker. You might be ahead in the game having answers for his creatures and spells etc., but then she turns up and gives you a bad day. She's pretty much Swords #9-12 here and/or Tarmogoyf #5-8 (or anything else he needs basically).

The deck has a really good time against most blue decks (except the combo ones of course) as it's crammed full of must-counter bombs like the planeswalkers, Eternal Witness, equipment, lots of swords and Tarmogoyf.

It has a good time against aggro as well. 8 x Exalted creatures usually gives it the edge, maindecked Jittes, lots of removal, lifegaining.

[hungryLIKEALION]

Instead of Top, why not run Sylvan Library? Particularly if you're running jittes and exalted angels, the lifegain can result in you drawing lots of extra cards. I've been running Library in my zoo list and I can certainly say how much that extra gas can help you out. I used to play White Weenie for a long time, and I feel like Library is the card my old list always needed.

[aTn]

Hello,
I was just wondering if the white winnie architype is really dead.. I entered this deck in a 59 man tourny and ended with a 4-2 record landing myself 15th spot not impressive but maybe it could be improved so it could somehow enter in the established deck section. I think the deck has potential

Lands [20]
4 savannah
2 temple garden
4 windswept heath
2 flooded strand
8 plains

Utilities [17]
4 swords to plowshares
3 path to exile
3 umezawa's jitte
3 honor the pure
4 spectral procession

Creatures [23]
4 figure of destiny
2 mother of runes
1 burrenton forge tender
4 silver knight
4 hand of honor
1 jotun grunt
4 tarmogoyf
3 quasali pridemage

Sideboard [15]
4 choke
2 tormod's crypt
2 relic of progenitus
3 aethersworn canonist
1 gaddock teeg
1 jotun grunt / burrenton forge tender
1 krosan grip
1 oblivion ring


comments ?

Explaining card choices would minimize the occurence probability for comments of the following form "deck X is crap and its builder should set himself on fire while hitting his head with a baseball bat protruding with nails and putting his balls in a bag filled with vampiric scorpions of doom". Sorry, I'm suffering from writer's block this morning and lashing out randomly on thread starters.

[eq.firemind]

There is a major reason why green accelerants fit into aggro decks:
Noble Hierarch. The Exalted part is freakin' awesome.

Also, Meanee, the list you posted is very solid and strong and I like it very much.
It has:
1) Strong creatures
2) Strong removal
3) Strong manabase (resilience to manadenial of any kind)
4) Card advantage: Witness, Planeswalkers (unusual for :g::w:)
5) Strong metagame position (Lifegain to beat Zoo/Sligh, no Islands to beat Folks, better dudes and equipment to beat Tribal/Wienee, 4cc bombs to dodge BalanceTop, )
6) Great sideboard options.
6) Belcher/Storm = loss... Well, Goblins and Zoo have same problems, but are still good decks...

Could you please post the exact decklist (with sideboard)?

Also, try out Kazandu Blademaster - he is awesome with Honor and Jitte

[meanee]

Actually I haven't played the deck yet - I need the elspeths, and they are essential to the deck.

My sb would be something along the lines of this:
4 orims chant
4 thorn of amethyst
Even though these 8 cards are not enough to kill combo, I'd hate to just sit down and say "Oh well, combo is auto-loss no matter what... let's just sit down and die". I want some hate i the board.
3 Krosan grips for counterbalances and stax-shit
2 sword of fire and ice - agains merfolks and goblins
2 path to exile - also against merfolks and goblins. And other aggro as well

- meanee

[from Cairo]

26
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Mother of Runes
4 Wilt-Lief cavaliers
3 Watchwolf
3 Exalted Angel
14
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Relic of Progenitus
20
6 Fetches
1 Savannah
7 Plains
6 Forest

side
4 Krosan Grip
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Choke

I like the outline of this list. I'm not too big on Exalted Angel it's kind of clunky for what you get. A 4/5 life link is nice, but at 6-7 mana with no way of accelerating it out, I think there's more broken things I'd like to do, or have something lower costing so it effects the board state faster.

Eternal Witness could be really good, as a way to further open up the tool-box approach. Like bringing back EEs or Jitte, and it can always just grab back a Tarmogoyf or Swords to Plowshares.

Wilt-Leaf Liege (unproven, but with all the :w::g: guys it's a buffed up Crusade effect on a 4/4), Elspeth, Knight-Errant, or Baneslayer Angel seem like other options to top the curve out.

[_erbs_]

thanks for all the inputs guys, it seems to me almost all are suggesting go green over white. like i said pound for pound green would be the right choice but im still going with white major. i'll just give my tourny report after the event. for now im going with this list which i'll still try to tweak for time to time.

Lands [20]
4 savannah
2 temple garden
4 windswept heath
2 flooded strand
8 plains

Utilities [14]
4 swords to plowshares
1 path to exile
2 oblivion ring
2 umezawa's jitte
1 sword of fire and ice
4 aether vial

Creatures [22]
4 figure of destiny
2 mother of runes
1 burrenton forge tender
4 silver knight
4 serra avenger
4 tarmogoyf
3 quasali pridemage

total 56

Most of the cards are pretty standard but if you need for a specific card explanation just post it and i'll post my choices.

I still can't decide on the last 4 slots. cards im considering are:
• hand of honor - 2cc pro black and can kill mongoose, kird apes, etc.
• kor skyfisher - 2cc 2/3 with evasion can save your creatures via vialing him in.
• wilt-leaf cavaliers - 3cc vigilance nice casting to powe thoughness ratio
• call of the herd - 3cc with flashback
• stillmoon cavalier - has protection from the most common removal in the format but sucks bigtime against red.
• Wilt-Leaf Liege - 4cc 4/4 that pumps your army
• calciderm - 4cc 5/5 shroud nice finisher
• guardian seraph - 4cc 3/4 flying good against hordes

Aethersworn Canonist & Gaddock Teeg are nice but they aren't offensive creatures.

Epochrasite would be nice but with no vial in play hard castng him seems weak.

maybe i've missed something

ty

[Moonlight]

The list im currently testing is the following:

//mainboard:
4#Noble Hierarch
3#Birds of Paradise
4#Tarmogoyf
4#Qasali Pridemage
4#Kitchen Finks
1#Loxodon Hierarch
1#Oblivion Ring
3#Baneslayer Angel
3#Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2#Garruk Wildspeaker
2#Sword of Fire and Ice
2#Umezawa’s Jitte
4#Swords to Plowshares
2#Path to Exile
3#Plains
3#Forest
4#Wasteland
4#Savannah
2#Horizon Canopy
1#Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
4#Windswept Heath

// sideboard:
3#Choke
2#Relic of Progenitus
2#Krosan Grip
4#Gaddock Teeg
1#Tormod’s Crypt
2#Sword of Light and Shadow
1#Enlightened Tutor

Its great to play with, harder MU then most of the people thought while playing against it.. and above all: fun to play with!

Any questions right now? Ill post some results when Ive played some more..

Moonlight.