[Deck] "Mono White Workshop"

[yadda]

This deck is born of me needing a deck to play for a local mox tourney when my brother(hungryLIKEALION) was playing our goyfs. since i didnt have the right cards to play any tier deck i decided to play the most powerful combination of cards i could come up with out of our collection. iv always been fascinated by the card glowrider (http://magiccards.info/le/en/15.html) and its ability to stack with the functionally identical thorn of amethyst from lorwyn. this lead to me wanting to play chrome mox and ancient tomb in order to play thorn or glowrider on turn one and given that we were already making so much mana i decided to just play beats. the question became what can i play that provides huge beats, that i own, and that i have the duels to support. since i dont really have any good duels for this i decided to go with mono white and arrived at the following list.

Qty ED Name Cost Type Rarity Color
// Lands
14 7E Plains Basic Land - Plains C Lnd
4 TE Ancient Tomb Land U Lnd
4 REW Wasteland Land R Lnd
//\\
// Creatures
2 ON Exalted Angel 4WW Creature - Angel R W
4 LE Glowrider 2W Creature - Human Cleric R W
4 ZEN Kor Sanctifiers 2W Creature - Kor Cleric C W
4 PLC Calciderm 2WW Creature - Beast U W
2 ALA Elspeth, Knight-Errant 2WW Planeswalker - Elspeth M W
4 CHK Samurai of the Pale Curtain WW Creature - Fox Samurai U W
1 LRW Cloudgoat Ranger 3WW Creature - Giant Warrior U W
//\\
// Spells
4 MR Chrome Mox 0 Artifact R Art
1 DS Sword of Light and Shadow 3 Artifact - Equipment R Art
2 DS Sword of Fire and Ice 3 Artifact - Equipment R Art
4 LRW Thorn of Amethyst 2 Artifact R Art
1 MR Mask of Memory 2 Artifact - Equipment U Art
1 FD Crucible of Worlds 3 Artifact R Art
4 MR Chalice of the Void XX Artifact R Art
//\\
// Sideboard
4 6E Wrath of God 2WW Sorcery R W
4 A Swords to Plowshares W Instant U W
4 CNF Wall of Reverence 3W Creature - Spirit Wall R W
3 FUT Patrician's Scorn 3W Instant C W

in retrospect there is probably too much equipment in the deck but we will go over that as part of the tournament report.


round one: bant aggro control

game one: he wins the die roll and plays. he dazes a first turn something plays alot of goyfs and kills me. it was sad and anticlimactic and i figured that this was the end of my story.

game two: im on the play and make first turn chalice for one second turn thorn third turn glowrider blah blah blah he plays more creatures than im expecting since i think im playing against thresh coming into this game having seen nothing but goyfs game one. this game i see goyfs pridemages and a vendillion clique. but i just smash face with glowriders and multiple calciderms. we end up with a pretty stalled board but i end up playing exalted angel face down with him on 3 while on 5 myself turn the angel over and swing for game.

game three: we both have awkward draws: i have turn one thorn off a chrome mox pitching one of two white cards in my hand luckily the other is calciderm which resolves and stares down his 4/5 goyf. after i resolve the goyf he wastes my ancient tomb putting my on 2 lands and unable to cast the remaining cards in my hand. fortunatly he still hasnt found a 3rd land and i topdeck a wasteland to kill his tropical island. i hold calciderm back to protect my life total (Around 12 at this point off of tomb and a goyf swing) and i draw more lands he doesnt and i finish him with a second calciderm and an elspeth.

1-0 2-1

round 2: Eva Green

game 1: i lose another die roll (very bad for this deck) and he leads on bayou with no play. firguring im against rock or an awkward Eva hand i decide to imprint a kor sanctifiers on a chrome mox and play thorn on my turn one. he goes dark rit hym (not sure why he didnt do this t1 guess he drew into one of them) into my hand of elsepth glowrider mask of memory plains and hits elspeth and glowrider. i effectivly lose the games two turns later to double tarmogyf.

game 2: i board in swords and hope he doesnt hym me. i make t1 thorn t2 glowrider t3 samurai of the pale curtain. he has t2 0/1 goyf t3 0/1 goyf t5 0/1 goyf and loses to my t5 calciderm t6 elspeth.

game 3: still on the dont get hymed plan. he hyms me. im pretty much screwed since he hits my chalice but with nothing else for it i run out samurai and a sword of light and shadow. he plays powder keg on t2 which i figure is going to kill my samurai but instead his t4 is goyf jitte go. i say ok and slow play my second piece of equipment, a sword of fire and ice. i swords the goyf then bash with my samurai+sword and gain some life. (theres no creature in my yard) he eventually blows the powder keg on my sword and i replace it with the fire and ice. at this point he makes a factory, tombstalker, and another goyf and im really screwed. i have elspeth> make a dude and samurai with mana up for my second swords but im on 10 life and he has 12 dmg on board. he brings his whole team but blows both his jitte counters on killing my samurai before blockers. i swords the goyf and go to 3 from tombstalker and factory. i draw a plains for turn and with no other outs equip my sword of fire and ice to my elspeth token and swing. i barely suppress the urge to jump up and run laps around the tournament venue as i rip my third swords. i make a guy with elspeth and say go. for some reason i dont understand at this point he swings with just his tombstalker wearing jittle which i happily swords. he passes the turn after playing dark confidant and equiping jitte. i topdeck my 4th swords start grinning like an idiot and proceed to make my first major mistake of the tournament and decide to swing into his confidant with my sword equiped token. he blocks gets jitte counters and im like man i suck at this game. from here i stop screwing up and kill him on turn 4 of additional turns on the back of the 4th swords and a calciderm with elspeth pumping blah blah blah.

fucking long game and i have a huge headache. luckily i was the last person playing and the round went up immediately after my round giving me no time to recover from my stressful round two.

round 3: a friend of mine playing mono red burn.

game one: sometimes you just draw really good cards in this game: t1 chalice for one t2 thorn t3 calciderm t4 calciderm. not much of a game.

game two: we play a long game (for a burn matchup anyway) where i end up with wall of reverence in play with low life. i forget to trigger wall once on end step and he peels a lava spike to kill me. i feel like a moron and want to strangle myself since if i remember to trigger that wall of reverance i win on my next attack.

game three: back on the play i draw another nutty 7: tomb, thorn, thorn, glowrider, plains, plains and calciderm. he only draws 3 lands in his 18 land deck and when i waste a wasteland he scoops since his whole hand is dead and i have a good clock going.

at this point im 3-0 and there are 5 other 3-0s including my brother. my brother and another kid do some terrible math and we all draw thinking we are all going to draw next round and be in. this isnt the case. my brother and his opponent have to play and technically so does my opponent. he doesnt realize he has the worst breakers and offers the draw which i take thinking im auto in (not necessarily the case i realize 5 min after reporting the draw) i get lucky and make top eight as the eighth seed. clearly my brother is the top seed and since his deck is not a pile of janky white cards and artifacts i scoop him into the quarter finals.

he loses in the finals and we net a playset of underground seas for our trouble.



I am fully aware that a big 3-0 does not a deck make, but the deck performed admirably and i honestly would consider playing it again (albeit with less equipment and more beaters. worldqueller?). im curious what the legacy commune here thinks of my pile.

for the record yes i know the sideboard sucks. i was massively overboarding for aggro since i was expecting alot of zoo and goblins which would be my worst matchups pre sideboard. also the patriarch's bidding were my janky counterbalance answer since i wasnt green for kgrip.

the deck got its name when the kid who would eventually win the tournament playing 4 color landstill looked through the deck and compared it to playing workshop in vintage.

[Aggro_zombies]

That list is fucking painful to look at.



14 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland

2 Exalted Angel
4 Glowrider
4 Kor Sanctifiers
4 Calciderm
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
1 Cloudgoat Ranger

4 Chrome Mox
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Mask of Memory
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void

SB:
4 Wrath of God
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Wall of Reverence
3 Patrician's Scorn
Thaaaaaat's better.

This looks remarkably like Angel Stompy, but with less disruption. I was under the impression that that particular deck was not very good anymore...why is this better?

[Digital Devil]

I would put some Oblivion Rings in there. Also, Burrenton Bombardier + SoLaS is a neat trick to do. I'm really interested in this thread as I'm playing the classic Angel Stompy version with a twist (Aven Mindcensor/Enlightened Tutor/Cataclysm, just to clarify). Yeah, I forgot about Aven Mindcensor. Turn 1 Mindcensor is awesome against a good part of the field. I hope this thread isn't going to fall into Oblivion (Ring) just like the original thread.

[Aleksandr]

I like the list and the report too.

I think that you are too much worried about the right number of your equipment. Four of them is not that many.. but in fact you can cut the Mask, which is the weakest of all the equipment you use. With four-of Calciderm the equipments are not useful, too, so try just three of them and see what happens.

As others already suggested - try Oblivion Rings (with CotV:1 they are >>> than Swords, imho), also Mindcensor can be hot, he's your "fetch-wait!-Stifle" or "counter-target-tutor" on wheels.
And it can surprisigly kill Lackey/Mongoose/Confi, which is always good...

Have you thought about some way how to revive lost creatures, namely Calciderms? I mean: other than via SoLS? Reinforcements (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=184597&type=card) are not the best option, are they?

What about Jotun Grunt? (For sb, of course) He supresses threshold, recycles your cards and sometimes it can hose a Bridge or two...

World Queller looks also funny. I would try him with Flagstones, but it is another story, as you are limited by your collection.

Btw, is Wrath needed? I mean: it kills creatures, yeah, but Ghostly Prison is one mana cheaper and unlike WoG, it can stop Dredge. Otoh Dreadstill (and similar decks that win via attack of a great swine like Tombstalker, AggroLoam dudes, some lhurgoyf creature type, Arc Slogger) can pay their :2:, avoid the Prison, and win in two or three attacks...

[FieryBalrog]

I would rather run Aven Mindcensor than Samurai, I think. Samurai doesn't really disrupt much apart from Bridge from Below and is marginally good against Loam.

[lebarion]

Maybe it is just danger of cool things, but Stonecloaker can bring back Calciderms to your hand when they are about to fade. Note that Stonecloaker's ability doesn't target.

[yadda]

This looks remarkably like Angel Stompy, but with less disruption. I was under the impression that that particular deck was not very good anymore...why is this better?

so be honest im not 100% sure it is. the major difference is the thorn+glowrider which is bonkers against 99% of the combo in legacy and good against most of the nonlandstill blue lists. we also dont play cataclysm due to the high mana requirements of our threats.

most of the rest of the comments are suggestions for things i either tested or dismissed out of hand. ill take them one at a time.


I would put some Oblivion Rings in there. Also, Burrenton Bombardier + SoLaS is a neat trick to do. I'm really interested in this thread as I'm playing the classic Angel Stompy version with a twist (Aven Mindcensor/Enlightened Tutor/Cataclysm, just to clarify). Yeah, I forgot about Aven Mindcensor. Turn 1 Mindcensor is awesome against a good part of the field. I hope this thread isn't going to fall into Oblivion (Ring) just like the original thread.

i have tested every number of oblivion rings from 2 to 4 in all combinations of sideboard and maindeck. i hated them. they are incredibly difficult to cast through thorn and glowrider and i cant tell you how many times they were stuck in my hand. also with the amount of bounce qasali pridemages running around a creature removed with o-ring doesnt often stay removed.

i havnt tested mindcensor mostly due to space. the samurai slot was previously occupied by knight of the white orchid in my early testing but switched to samurai for two separate but equally relevant reasons. 1) its trades with wild nacatle and mongooses and strait up kills kird ape. this is very relevant in the currant meta. 2) rfging permanents can keep goyfs small enough for calciderm and our other beaters to outclass them (this happened g2 of the game against my eva green opponent in the above report). the fact that it doubles as dubious dredge hate is really just an added bonus as far as im concerned. the fact that mindcensor doesnt race or trade with any of the aggressive creatures in the meta makes me skeptical of his utility since we already play so many cards that effectively try to do the same thing.


Have you thought about some way how to revive lost creatures, namely Calciderms? I mean: other than via SoLS? Reinforcements are not the best option, are they?

What about Jotun Grunt? (For sb, of course) He supresses threshold, recycles your cards and sometimes it can hose a Bridge or two...

World Queller looks also funny. I would try him with Flagstones, but it is another story, as you are limited by your collection.


Maybe it is just danger of cool things, but Stonecloaker can bring back Calciderms to your hand when they are about to fade. Note that Stonecloaker's ability doesn't target.

ill take the getting back calciderms and stonecloaker comment together. the original version of the deck played stonecloaker for exactly this reason. durring testing though i had way too many cases where he was the only guy in my hand and i couldn't produce a clock as a result other cards i considered were: emeria (clearly bad) more swords to light and shadow (rarely want to see two as fire and ice provides a better clock. also doesn't equip to calciderm). if someone can come up with a better guy let me know im all ears.

jotun grunt may very well warrant a spot in this deck. he does everything we want and should probably be in the sideboard somewhere it was simply a matter of not thinking of him until far too late in my testing stage(after i was done) that lead him to not be included somewhere in this list.

the flagstones note is a good one. really good actually im going to test that if i have time tonight and get back on that one. ill try to mindcensor but like i said im a bit skeptical.

[Tao]

Have you thought about Gathan Raiders? In the Dragon Stompy it is quite good and it can also be nice to leave opponent unsure if it is Angel or Raider.

Also I wonder why you run Thorn and Glowrider over Trinisphere. Both wreck the same type of opponent but going for fast Thorn and Glowrider seems not very synergetic if you want to be able to cast your Equipment and Elspeth at some point. Imo you should exchange that (put Thorn in SB if needed) and use the 4 free slots for more curvy pressure.

[yadda]

Have you thought about Gathan Raiders? In the Dragon Stompy it is quite good and it can also be nice to leave opponent unsure if it is Angel or Raider.

Also I wonder why you run Thorn and Glowrider over Trinisphere. Both wreck the same type of opponent but going for fast Thorn and Glowrider seems not very synergetic if you want to be able to cast your Equipment and Elspeth at some point. Imo you should exchange that (put Thorn in SB if needed) and use the 4 free slots for more curvy pressure.

the simple answer is that i can only play four trinisphere.

the complicated answer has to do with the fact that we arnt playing thorn with support from glowrider. we are playing thorn in order to support glowrider.

the even more complicated answer has to do with the currant metagame. our deck is positioned so as to take advantage of some of the card choices being made by popular archetypes such as countertop. due to the recent gains by aggro on the rest of the format countertop is packing cards like vedalken shackles firespout and threads of disloyalty. between glowrider thorn and wasteland (and now world queller which is by the way sick) we can often keep these spells from being cast. ever. trinisphere has no effect in this case and therefore by my definition is well. bad.

so basically to quote you: "Both wreck the same type of opponent" yet thorn and glowrider also do work against one of the most represented archetypes in legacy. this is why we play glowrider and thorn.

edit: o forgot to answer about raiders. not a bad idea im just not sure that 3/3 for 3 is good enuf since we actually dont empty our hand all that often given that stuff gets stuck there sometimes (read that as chrome mox) and since we can actually slow roll our threats due to thier individual gamebreakingness in in some matchups again wont always be a 5/5.

[Tao]

From the named cards only Shackles is problematic for you. Threads and Firespout are a minor annoyance at most if you play the 3-Sphere build.

But you say yourself that Aggro has recently gained so you have to take that matchup into consideration as well. And against Goblins, Merfolk and Zoo Thorn and Glowrider usually hurt you more than them while a second turn Trinisphere is a total pain for them.

[arebennian]

Questions:

1) Why isn't Jitte Played?

2) And Baneslayer Angel?

3) Is the Evoke mechanic effected by Glowrider + Thorn (Shriekmaw or Mulldrifter....)

4) Also, you noted that you were looking for great beaters, but didn't have the duals or fetches to pull it off. Which colour would be best to add?

[Hawdes]

Don't know if Soltari Champion would make the cut here. But imo he's pretty good with his evasion and the ability to pump the rest of your team.

[yadda]

From the named cards only Shackles is problematic for you. Threads and Firespout are a minor annoyance at most if you play the 3-Sphere build.

But you say yourself that Aggro has recently gained so you have to take that matchup into consideration as well. And against Goblins, Merfolk and Zoo Thorn and Glowrider usually hurt you more than them while a second turn Trinisphere is a total pain for them.

well, firespout kills quite a few guys we play. your right that threads isnt that big a problem but giving them a dead card is giving them a dead card. (even if they do just pitch it to force we are still taking away options)

i feel at this point it is important to point out that i do not believe that it is possible to build a deck of this nature that will efficiently beat aggro while playing glowrider. to be honest if your bringing this deck to a bell curve meta legacy tournament you are probably not going to win. BUT if your meta features people reacting to aggro getting better by playing combo and overpriced removal cards in control there is a small window where this deck could be effective.

the analogy i would use is the standard swans combo deck from last GP season which, for one weekend, was the best deck in standard, and once the meta shifted the next week was terrible. we are trying to take advantage of a fleeting metagame anomaly. this deck will not be viable in all metas the way threshold or countertop or goblins, claim to be but it could win a tournament where it is properly positioned, and after all the only goal an individual deck has is to win the next tournament.


Questions:

1) Why isn't Jitte Played?

2) And Baneslayer Angel?

3) Is the Evoke mechanic effected by Glowrider + Thorn (Shriekmaw or Mulldrifter....)

4) Also, you noted that you were looking for great beaters, but didn't have the duals or fetches to pull it off. Which colour would be best to add?

1) its purely a choice. i decided i never wanted my equipment to be dead on a chalice for 2. you can certainly play jitte if you want to improve your aggro matchup, i liked the idea of the swords since i was gunning for control. (drawing cards is one thing this deck lacks so i was also supplementing with that choice here as well).

2) well part one is i dont own baneslayer angel. part two is that she would go in for exalted angel who can be made active with access to 2WW versus 3WW. not a huge difference but one worth looking at when playing a deck that really needs to win pretty quick lest their opponent make too many land drops.

3) yes evoke counts as playing the spell. that said those are creatures and are unaffected by thorn and glowrider. if it was sphere of resistance then evoking a mulldrifter under double sphere would cost 4U.

4) green or black would be the obvious choices i think. green gives us goyf black gives up tombstalker (which is probably not a bad idea in this deck since it helps fight goyf) the thing about splashing in this deck is that we hate being on the draw. alot. if we were to splash we would probably need to play fetchlands. if this deck gets stifled turn one we will probably lose every time. this lack of tempo would just steamroll us. we would also open ourselves up to the possibility of a wastelock or bloodmoon one of the advantages of this deck is that we are for the most part fully operational under either one of these circumstances. giving ourselves an extra weakness in our worst situation for what i see as marginal gains at best doesn't seem good. (to sum that up real quick playing more non-basics takes away one of the few resilient features of this deck)


Don't know if Soltari Champion would make the cut here. But imo he's pretty good with his evasion and the ability to pump the rest of your team.

the problem here is that too much of the time we only have a single or maybe two creatures in play at a time. since he doesn't disrupt our opponent or provide a good clock on his own he just isn't worth the space.

[tivadar]

So in response, this version of Angel Stompy had been discussed a while back. It ran things like glowrider, and oftentimes trinisphere, and really felt more like a cross between Angel Stompy and Stax. That being said, I love your new list!

Cloudgoat seems way out of place here. If you really want to generate token creatures, why not Decree of Justice? It's still unaffected by glowrider/thorn. Sure, no big body, but tons of tokens and a card.

Kor Sanctifiers is a really clever addition! The only problem it really doesn't solve is Humility, which would suck if you see it. However, you're probably not overly likely to run across it that often.

I feel like a pro-red creature could really shore up your goblins a bit. I know when I tried creating a "chalice stompy" type list, I went with thermal glider. Granted, that might not be the solution here...

Finally, is 26 mana sources really the right number for this deck? I feel like you could probably get away with 24 if you peaked your curve around 4 (which it is now outside of same turn equips and cloudgoat).

Umm, ok, one more. Had you considered maindeck wrath? Strikes me that that might be an answer to aggro decks. You can peal off wrath on T3 (hopefully). And if you can figure out they're aggro prior to playing glowrider, then hold back on him. There's no creature wrath effect is there (that would just be odd...).

EDIT: BTW, I feel like this has more "disruption" than angel stompy, but less speed. AS only has STP, and really no answer to combo maindeck. This has at least 8 answers...

[yadda]

the list i ran in the tournament was extremely rough the gloudgoat was honestly just there because i wanted another guy who was good against swords to plowshares and couldnt run 5 calciderms :P

as for humility you have to take your beats somewhere. the only deck iv seen running humility is landstill and not always so really if thats what it takes to beat us i think we are ok with that. landstill is really awkward anyway since they run EE and academy ruins. you really have to just draw the nuts to blow them out.

pro red is one thing i hadnt considered up to this point. the problem is that samurai is probably the guy who gets cut for silver knight or some such but samurai isn't bad against gobs in the first place so i dont really think its that big an upgrade since in most every other matchup samurai is better.

your right 26 mana sources is a TON and you do flood a bit sometimes but you really have to hit land drops with this deck to play your threats quickly since you have no real card advantage engine. missing your 4th mana is often followed two turns later by a concession as you cant make up the tempo if they have any action at all. that said once i decide on what all im playing i may be able to cut a plains or two. i would like to cut a chrome mox but since first turn two drops are such a big part of the plan it just doesnt work sadly.

as for wrath i made a conscious decision the night before the tournament that i was basically going to pre sideboard for countertop and combo and play a TON of aggro suppression in my sideboard. (in part because i knew my meta would allow me to do this since my brother is the only zoo deck i knew would be there and i knew there would be at least a few good combo players. (ironically Lucas Siow (i think thats how you spell his name) almost made the top 8 with belcher which would have been my dream matchup)

sorry tangent there. main deck wrath is probably ok (w00t main deck answer to progenitus) it may even be good if your expecting alot of aggro but i wouldnt recommended this deck for a zoo or merfolk heavy meta so if your making that call you may want to look for another deck. or maybe im wrong and the deck can be steered toward aggro. only testing will tell. if anyone plays this deck at all even just a few matches i'd love to hear about it.

heres the list im testing right now.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
12 [7E] Plains (2)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [REW] Wasteland
2 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair

// Creatures
2 [ON] Exalted Angel
4 [LE] Glowrider
3 [ZEN] Kor Sanctifiers
4 [PLC] Calciderm
1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 [ZEN] World Queller
3 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
4 [CHK] Samurai of the Pale Curtain

// Spells
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [6E] Wrath of God
SB: 4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 3 [FUT] Patrician's Scorn
SB: 3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 1 [AL] Reprisal (1)


no i dont know how good reprisal is i just needed a 5th swords effect that didnt give my opponent a land and it seemed well suited for killing goyfs and tombstalkers which are the only creatures in zoo/eva green im really that worried about having more removal for.

btw if you have the link to the old thread i'd love to see what tech they played.

[Hawdes]

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
12 [7E] Plains (2)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [REW] Wasteland
2 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair

// Creatures
2 [ON] Exalted Angel
4 [LE] Glowrider
3 [ZEN] Kor Sanctifiers
4 [PLC] Calciderm
1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 [ZEN] World Queller
3 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
4 [CHK] Samurai of the Pale Curtain

// Spells
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [6E] Wrath of God
SB: 4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 3 [FUT] Patrician's Scorn
SB: 3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 1 [AL] Reprisal (1)



I would rather run Cataclysm instead of WoG or maybe a split if WoG is needed... Seems to be better against more decks than specifically aggro, and with a cataclysm resovled you should be able to keep a Exalted Angel carrying a sword for the win, which would outrace a bunch of threats...
It would also keep opponents in check since they have to sac down to one of each permanent. But I dunno. Just seems better.

[Digital Devil]

I would rather run Cataclysm instead of WoG. Seems to be better against more decks than specifically aggro, and with a cataclysm resovled you should be able to keep a Exalted Angel carrying a sword for the win, which would outrace a bunch of threats...
It would also keep opponents in check since they have to sac down to one of each permanent. But I dunno. Just seems better.
Playing Cataclysm with a high artifact count is a kidney shot. I've had trouble with the classic build (not Chalice aggro) playing 8 artifacts maindeck. Imagine what would happen with 15 artifacts total (4 of them are Thorns). And Glowrider. I believe Cataclysm is better if played in a faster build, which can recover from it with ease (say, I play 'Clysm, then have my land drop, play FoD, then pass the turn). I'd sooner play Balancing Act, since you empty your hand in the very first turns of the game. Can be a double-edged sword, though.

P.S. What about Exile? It seems way better than Reprisal.

[yadda]

P.S. What about Exile? It seems way better than Reprisal.

there is no situation where you ever want to give your opponent more lands if your deck is working properly.


I would rather run Cataclysm instead of WoG or maybe a split if WoG is needed... Seems to be better against more decks than specifically aggro, and with a cataclysm resovled you should be able to keep a Exalted Angel carrying a sword for the win, which would outrace a bunch of threats...
It would also keep opponents in check since they have to sac down to one of each permanent. But I dunno. Just seems better.


Playing Cataclysm with a high artifact count is a kidney shot. I've had trouble with the classic build (not Chalice aggro) playing 8 artifacts maindeck. Imagine what would happen with 15 artifacts total (4 of them are Thorns). And Glowrider. I believe Cataclysm is better if played in a faster build, which can recover from it with ease (say, I play 'Clysm, then have my land drop, play FoD, then pass the turn). I'd sooner play Balancing Act, since you empty your hand in the very first turns of the game. Can be a double-edged sword, though.

couldnt have said it better myself. the only thing ill add is that when SBing against aggro all the thorns and glowriders come out as well as the crucible so in that respect its probably not terrible i just dont know if its better than wrath or not since alot of the time when we are casting wrath we either have no guy in play or its a calciderm which doesnt stick around long enough to finish the job and then we have to rebuild to play another 3,4,5 mana spell to win.

[Digital Devil]

there is no situation where you ever want to give your opponent more lands if your deck is working properly.

I wasn't talking about Path to Exile, I was talking about the card "Exile". The restriction to attacking creatures can be an issue.

[yadda]

I wasn't talking about Path to Exile, I was talking about the card "Exile". The restriction to attacking creatures can be an issue.

my bad misunderstood. um exile would be ok but if im playing that kind of card i would rather play condemn since its cheaper and doesnt have the nonwhite restriction.

[yadda]

just thought i'd update this thread a little. this is the list im testing right now. thoughts always appreciated.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
12 [7E] Plains (2)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [REW] Wasteland
2 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair

// Creatures
4 [ON] Exalted Angel
4 [LE] Glowrider
4 [ZEN] Kor Sanctifiers
4 [PLC] Calciderm
3 [ZEN] World Queller
4 [CHK] Samurai of the Pale Curtain

// Spells
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [6E] Wrath of God
SB: 3 [A] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 3 [FUT] Patrician's Scorn
SB: 3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 3 [4E] Armageddon

[hungryLIKEALION]

I put together a build of this revolving around trini/geddon instead of thorn effects.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
12 [9E] Plains (1)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair

// Creatures
3 [ZEN] World Queller
3 [ZEN] Kor Sanctifiers
4 [CHK] Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 [ON] Exalted Angel
4 [GTW] Calciderm

// Spells
3 [DS] Trinisphere
4 [RAV] Suppression Field
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [ALA] Oblivion Ring
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [A] Armageddon

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [FUT] Patrician's Scorn
SB: 4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 4 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 4 [CS] Jotun Grunt


I like this version a lot better to be honest, I get to run my own non-creature spells without fucking my own day, meaning I can play oblivion ring. I also threw in suppression field for extra disruption, but that may get cut with more testing. So far though results are promising.

(Forgot to put wasteland in the mws build, will remedy that.)

[hungryLIKEALION]

Sorry to necro, but I have a new build of this deck.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
8 [9E] Plains (1)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] World Queller
4 [ZEN] Kor Sanctifiers
4 [CHK] Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 [ON] Exalted Angel
4 [GTW] Calciderm
4 [LE] Glowrider
3 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor

// Spells
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
2 [10E] Crucible of Worlds

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [FUT] Patrician's Scorn
SB: 4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 4 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 4 [CS] Jotun Grunt

SB can still use more work, but I like the rest of the deck very much. I went back to thorn effects instead of trini geddon now, it just suits the deck better. I'm finding this deck to have very good matchups against many of the upper tier decks right now. UGx decks tend to be in my favor, particularly if I have a fast opener. Zoo is about even, and when I have a good opening I crush them without much trouble. Belcher and ANT are pretty easy, with thorn effects and mindcensor to screw up their tutors they don't have much hope of winning.

I urge anyone who feels like trying something new out to give this deck a shot, it's deceptively good.

[ReverentChastity]

I really like this deck and the thorn effects it has going on, though is 3 Flagstones ever too much? It would seem for every game you're sacrificing one to a Worldqueller, another game you get stuck on double Flagstone hands.

[hungryLIKEALION]

I haven't gotten stuck with two flagstones yet, but you may be right regardless.

[d0ner]

i played the following list in a 60 man turnament and got 2nd place.

Mainboard:
4 Aven Mindcensor
4 Calciderm
3 Exalted Angel
4 Glowrider

3 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

3 Cataclysm
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Trinisphere
3 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Flagstones of Trokair
9 Plains

# 60

Sideboard:
3 Powder Keg
3 Absolute Law
3 Kor Sanctifiers
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Jötun Grunt
3 Tormod's Crypt

i won all the games and draw against mono red goblins(a mostly good matchup with this list) to get a safe 2nd place and a chance to get 1st.

the deck: I like elspeth, because she is everything the deck needs: Creature or Equipment.

In further lists i would replace a Land through an Exalted Angel and 2 jitte thorugh Sword of Light and Shadow. Yes, Swofi brings directly Card Advantage, but Swols brings your Creatures Protection from removal. Perhaps i will cut also one of the four equipment, because there are only 11-12 Creatures able to wear it(k, there is also elspeth...)

[Moonlight]

Planeswalkers die from Cataclysm!! :wink:
You choose a creature, land, enchantment and artifact, then sac the rest (including any other permanet types --> planeswalkers)
So you have to consider that again...

Doesnt Cata hurt you more then your oppo each game? Im looking at your arti-count now..
You want: mox, chalice, equipment each game.. what do you choose when you resolve Cata?
Maybe armageddon is the way to go then?

[d0ner]

olol, you are right. whatever, i never was in the situation having an elspeth and want to play cataclysm.

i know thats much, but the situation u are discribing is a bit particulary.

if i hasn an good board position i would never play cataclysm ;)

so if the opponent has an army of merfolk and i only have Mox, Chalice, creature + equipment - i would keep the equibment.

if the opponent has an single tarmogoyf, the mox would stay and i would play an oring after cata.(if i haven't it, i won't play cata)

i played death and taxes for a time and i know he situation.

[Worldslayer]

This occurred to me in the Angel Stompy thread floating on this page somewhere, but seems like it would be more in place here -

Is Emeria Angel too slow for the deck? It seems like the synergy it brings with Tangle Wire / Smokestack / Crucible / Flagstones could lead to an overwhelming advantage faster than without. It dies to lightning bolt, yes, but so do half of your other guys - and if you play landfall correctly you at least get a 1/1 to stop the Goyf beats for a turn, and it seems like time is what this deck wants most of (up to a certain point, anyway). It also is affected by zero of the sphere effects any of the previous few lists run (though it's helping cards all are, admittedly). At the very least, it flies and carries equipment and can provide chumpers.

I do apologize if this has been brought up before.

[overseer1234]

olol, you are right. whatever, i never was in the situation having an elspeth and want to play cataclysm.

i know thats much, but the situation u are discribing is a bit particulary.

if i hasn an good board position i would never play cataclysm ;)

so if the opponent has an army of merfolk and i only have Mox, Chalice, creature + equipment - i would keep the equibment.

if the opponent has an single tarmogoyf, the mox would stay and i would play an oring after cata.(if i haven't it, i won't play cata)

i played death and taxes for a time and i know he situation.

Care to write a bit more about your tournament. What decks did you face and hat did you side in (and out).

I really like your list as I'm currently testing it with 1 less Elspeth for an extra exalted angel (don't have a 3rd elspeth), and an extra sword instead of a jitte. But I'm very happy with the result's (only that I always forget that Calciderm can't carry equipment, so maybe he'll make room for something else (maybe main deck sanctifiers, or windborn muse)

[Digital Devil]

@ HungryLIKEALION (or whoever can answer me) - a basilar question. Your list doesn't run Silver Knight. Instead, it runs Samurai of the Pale Curtain. Knowing that goblins are x/2, SotPC can survive in battle with virtually every creature in the deck, and at worst it trades with Piledriver. Now, the real question is (since you're running Queller + Crucible + Flagstones): does Samurai's ability hurt you when you play Armageddon + Flagstones (first version) or when you have Queller + Flagstones (and/or Wasteland + Crucible)? I'm asking this because I wanted to switch my Silver Knights with Samurais (they trade with Nacatl/Ape/Mishra/Mongoose, paired with Cataclysm they prevent Replenish effects against Enchantress, and with Dredge becoming a more popular strategy SotPC helps avoiding those Bridge from Below triggers), but I am not sure about the dis-synergy with Flagstones. Still, I think Samurai is an underrated card, that's why I want to play it.

[overseer1234]

@ HungryLIKEALION (or whoever can answer me) - a basilar question. Your list doesn't run Silver Knight. Instead, it runs Samurai of the Pale Curtain. Knowing that goblins are x/2, SotPC can survive in battle with virtually every creature in the deck, and at worst it trades with Piledriver. Now, the real question is (since you're running Queller + Crucible + Flagstones): does Samurai's ability hurt you when you play Armageddon + Flagstones (first version) or when you have Queller + Flagstones (and/or Wasteland + Crucible)? I'm asking this because I wanted to switch my Silver Knights with Samurais (they trade with Nacatl/Ape/Mishra/Mongoose, paired with Cataclysm they prevent Replenish effects against Enchantress, and with Dredge becoming a more popular strategy SotPC helps avoiding those Bridge from Below triggers), but I am not sure about the dis-synergy with Flagstones. Still, I think Samurai is an underrated card, that's why I want to play it.

Well, I played Death&Taxes with 4 samurai main deck, but if you ask me, I think by playing a WW creature in a deck with 8 :2:-lands, and lockpieces that actualy require you to recur lands from the graveyard (or have to trigger from going to the graveyard. You're really pushing your luck... Samurai is realy good I admit, but not in a deck that allready has trouble casting it AND finds hinderance from it's abillity's.

I would suggest the samurai in a more traditional angel stompy build (less :2:-lands, without the crucible lockpieces), and probably paralax wave instead of the cataclysm/armageddon package.

Annyway, if you think you can reliably cast him in time (I even have a hard time flipping angel) then go for it (if you kick the crucible, since that's the card you wreck for yourself).

[yadda]

my response in this situation is that this deck is full of dissynergy, but thats not a huge problem since you ususally effectivly win or lose the game by turn 3. also wastelocking your opponent isnt important if samurai is winning you the ground war and if your not winning the ground war samurai is the first thing to go when you have worldqueller on board anyway so yea. usually if they are saccing lands to worldqueller you dont care whether or not you can recur yours cuz they are just going to lose the the worldqueller already on board.

[flrn]

Care to write a bit more about your tournament. What decks did you face and hat did you side in (and out).

I really like your list as I'm currently testing it with 1 less Elspeth for an extra exalted angel (don't have a 3rd elspeth), and an extra sword instead of a jitte. But I'm very happy with the result's (only that I always forget that Calciderm can't carry equipment, so maybe he'll make room for something else (maybe main deck sanctifiers, or windborn muse)

Here (http://www.mtgblogs.de/teamrockit/die-kunde-der-engel/) is a german tourney report written by him. If you are able to speak german, you can read it in his words. If you arent, I will give you a short summary of what he wrote:

In the first round he played against Deadguy Ale. Basically the Chalice on 1 won him both games. In the second round he faced a blue/red Painter version. First game the opponent doesnt find a painter and in the second game it is a quick loss for him. Third game he keeps the opponent busy with a Trinisphere and a Jitte, while the opponent was mana screwed. Funniest moment of the tourney was, when the opponent played a Shattering Spree for 3, with 3 Simian Spirit Guides, to destroy the Jitte and the Trinisphere. But he was dead after the next round.

Third Round against Enchantress. Aven Mindcensor is a house in this matchup, because his opponent played a lot of tutors/fetchies main. Fourth Round against Merfolk, who played Sygg River Guide. Exalted Angel and Calciderm carried 2 games home. Round 5 against Canadian *****, which doesnt stand any chance against Aven Mindcensor equipped with Sword of Fire and Ice and Cataclysm in both of the games they played.

Round 6 would have been mono red Goblins. He says that he thinks that he has a good matchup against those, because of the heavy disruption (Chalice/Trinisphere) and the Absolute Law´s from the board, but he prefered to draw to have a safe second place in that 60 men tournament. With a better opponent score he would have been able to be first, but he prefered the price of the second place anyway.

[PunkRocker1134]

How does the Merfolk match look? I ask because it is one of the higher tier decks, and can't seem to find any mention of it.

[hungryLIKEALION]

The future of this deck:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100207&d=1263567048

A friend played this deck today at AU, going 4-2 and just missing top 8 at 10th place.

But yeah, I'll update this later with the list he ran and my ideas for the future. Just thought I'd drop a word.

[yadda]

this is probably something like what the deck will look like with the addition of lodestone golem. we have also started testing mox diamonds due to the fact that i lost 3 rounds in Vestal due to drawing too many chrome moxes and having to pitch my threats to them in the early game.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
10 [7E] Plains (2)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [REW] Wasteland
2 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
3 [MM] Rishadan Port

// Creatures
3 [ON] Exalted Angel
4 [LE] Glowrider
4 [ZEN] Kor Sanctifiers
4 [PLC] Calciderm
4 [ZEN] World Queller
4 [WWK] Lodestone Golem

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
2 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [SH] Mox Diamond

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 3 [6E] Wrath of God
SB: 3 [A] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 3 [FUT] Patrician's Scorn
SB: 4 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt

[jrsthethird]

Looks good JT. (this is Joe)

I like the idea of Mox Diamond better. Also Rishadan Port seems like a good add too. Have you tested it yet with the Golem?

[yadda]

Yes, iv had the worst string of draws though. I played one game earlier where i drew 3 non mana source cards in an 8 turn game. Very Disappointing, but what do you expect from MWS?

[eq.firemind]

Just throwing in an idea:
What do you think about Loxodon Gatekeeper? He screws fetches, mana artifacts and this deck can more or less consistently cast him on turn 2-3.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

this is probably something like what the deck will look like with the addition of lodestone golem. we have also started testing mox diamonds due to the fact that i lost 3 rounds in Vestal due to drawing too many chrome moxes and having to pitch my threats to them in the early game.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
10 [7E] Plains (2)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [REW] Wasteland
2 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
3 [MM] Rishadan Port

// Creatures
3 [ON] Exalted Angel
4 [LE] Glowrider
4 [ZEN] Kor Sanctifiers
4 [PLC] Calciderm
4 [ZEN] World Queller
4 [WWK] Lodestone Golem

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
2 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [SH] Mox Diamond

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 3 [6E] Wrath of God
SB: 3 [A] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 3 [FUT] Patrician's Scorn
SB: 4 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt

Just a few suggestions/questions:

Have you tried testing City of Traitors (possibly over the Rishadan Ports)? I can't help but think that a little more acceleration might be nice.

Wouldn't Baneslayer Angel > Exalted Angel?

Have you tried testing Elspeth at all?

Why aren't you running the full four copies of Flagstones of Trokair? I've never understood why mono white decks that aren't going for a snow-land theme or something don't just auto-include four Flagstones... They're not really "susceptible to Wasteland" since you'd still be running 8 basic plains to search for.

Might Cataclysm be better than Wrath of God in the sideboard?

Are Kor Sanctifiers really all that good? I guess they're a potential 2-1, but I don't know, they just strike me as a little janky...

Have you considered running equipment? You could use 3-4x Stoneforge Mystic from the new set and be able to get away with a pretty small toolbox of equipment, maybe like 1 Jitte, 1 Sword of Fire and Ice or something along those lines...

...Anyhow. Sorry to just barrage you with a shitload of questions. It's just because I think the deck is a cool idea. :wink:

[Guevera59]

[QUOTE=DukeDemonKn1ght;424281]Just a few suggestions/questions:

Why aren't you running the full four copies of Flagstones of Trokair? I've never understood why mono white decks that aren't going for a snow-land theme or something don't just auto-include four Flagstones... They're not really "susceptible to Wasteland" since you'd still be running 8 basic plains to search for.

/QUOTE]

Flagstones is legendary.

[jrsthethird]

The problem with Flagstones is that it puts the land into play tapped. Your first Flagstones works great, but the second one (assuming the first one was not destroyed previously) will kill them both, so you can search for 2 Plains. You can tap the first one for mana and float it, but you never have a chance to tap the second one before it's destroyed. Since the Plains come in tapped, it's essentially playing an ETBT Plains, and the loss in tempo with that is something we can't afford in the early game. Late game, when we probably have more mana than we need, then fine, it thins out 2 lands from our deck, but if it happens too often, it's going to really screw us up.

[yadda]

Just a few suggestions/questions:

Have you tried testing City of Traitors (possibly over the Rishadan Ports)? I can't help but think that a little more acceleration might be nice.

Wouldn't Baneslayer Angel > Exalted Angel?

Have you tried testing Elspeth at all?

Why aren't you running the full four copies of Flagstones of Trokair? I've never understood why mono white decks that aren't going for a snow-land theme or something don't just auto-include four Flagstones... They're not really "susceptible to Wasteland" since you'd still be running 8 basic plains to search for.

Might Cataclysm be better than Wrath of God in the sideboard?

Are Kor Sanctifiers really all that good? I guess they're a potential 2-1, but I don't know, they just strike me as a little janky...

Have you considered running equipment? You could use 3-4x Stoneforge Mystic from the new set and be able to get away with a pretty small toolbox of equipment, maybe like 1 Jitte, 1 Sword of Fire and Ice or something along those lines...

...Anyhow. Sorry to just barrage you with a shitload of questions. It's just because I think the deck is a cool idea. :wink:

ill take these one at a time.

The first thing i have to say is that if you read the first post in this thread you will see that this deck did contain elspeth and equipment. they were cut because they desynergize much to heavily with the thorn of amythist effects. Paying 5-6 mana for SoFI makes it really bad when it could just be a worldqueller or some other bomb. The same is true of elspeth, she is just very hard to cast under 2+ thorn effects.

As for city of traitors the problem lies in the fact that unlike dragon stompy we cants rely on 2 spells to win us the game, we often cast 5-6 spells before the game is put away making city difficult to use without crucible online. While we do use crucible we only play 2 unlike stax or similar decks which play higher crucible counts and can recur city more reliably.

As for stoneforge mystic this may be worth looking into, since her ability dodges thorn she could be an excellent way to cheat even more than we already are.

Baneslayer is an argument iv had with myself several times. The reason i have stuck is exalted angel is twofold: 1 i own them making them much easier to play :P. 2 the ability to have them fully functional on turn 2 is pretty sick, as well as the fact that they can come down on t2 and represent a must kill guy which baneslayer cant. In fact its really all about tempo in this case, curving out is important to this deck so making sure you have a 3 mana guy for them to answer is important for making sure your 3rd guy sticks.

Kor Sanctifiers are just that good, this format is full of situations where they just come out of nowhere and suckerpunch people, every deck runs something that they can kill and most of those things are very very powerful and worth killing.

Cataclyzm is not a card iv ever played but i dont really find it that attractive, leaving Zoo with a 5/6 goyf is just unacceptable, since we can never beat a without superior board position which we cant have if we sac down to one creature (possibly two with lodestone golem now in the deck)

anyway i think i hit everything. please continue the debate, tell me im and idiot and i overlooked something.

oh about loxadon gatekeeper, hes just too small we already play a 2/3 and a 2/1 which get run over by wild nacatl ect ect. Thats my opinion anyway, if you test it and it works feel free to let me know.

[jrsthethird]

I agree with you on the Exalted > Baneslayer, especially since while playing with the deck I've smashed with her on turn 2 before, but if you or Harry for some reason want to use Baneslayer I have 2 you guys can borrow for a tournament, as long as it's not standard.

[yadda]

uh Joe...How would i play this deck in standard?

[jrsthethird]

No, i meant if you needed them for anything, not just this deck. Anything legacy or extended.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Just throwing out a list for critique because I think this is a cool deck and I'd like to see the thread necro'ed (and also I posted this in the MUD Stompy thread and they didn't seem to think it was MUDdy enough...)

4 Lodestone Golem
4 Su-Chi (might cut a couple if I can get away with using more white creatures without stretching the mana base)
2 ? (Elspeth/ Magus of the Tabernacle/ Baneslayer Angel/ World Queller-- not sure which...)
2 Razormane Masticore

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Smokestack

3 Oblivion Ring
2 Exile

4 Mox Diamond
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Horizon Canopy
7 Plains

...Anyhow. The creature base is probably wrong. And I haven't followed the 8-ball disruption plan. But I'd be interested to hear what people think of this (completely untested) list.

[yadda]

Well the main thing i would say as far as relevance to this thread is that what you have posted here is much closer to stax than the deck which this thread is intended to discuss.

As far as the deck itself goes su-chi seems awful and juggernaut seems better in pretty much every instance, i would not run razomane mastocore as teh deck has no sources of card advantage and will therefore end up having to go "all in" on its masticore. Elspeth baneslayer and Worldqueller all certainly make better threats. also exile is terribad just play some equipment (jitte) if you feel like you need more removal than 3 o ring. also magus of the tabernacle is prolly good in any deck with stax. honestly i see no reason to play this deck over banestax, they do the same thing and this one uses less efficient bombs and has less disruptive features.


edit: for the record this is what im testing right now. as you can see the build i am presenting here is an aggro deck, not a control deck like the stax list above.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [REW] Wasteland
2 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
2 [MM] Rishadan Port
8 [ALA] Plains (4)

// Creatures
3 [ON] Exalted Angel
4 [LE] Glowrider
3 [ZEN] Kor Sanctifiers
4 [PLC] Calciderm
4 [ZEN] World Queller
4 [WWK] Lodestone Golem
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [MR] Chrome Mox

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 3 [6E] Wrath of God
SB: 3 [A] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 3 [FUT] Patrician's Scorn
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [MR] Loxodon Warhammer

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [REW] Wasteland
2 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
2 [MM] Rishadan Port
8 [ALA] Plains (4)

// Creatures
3 [ON] Exalted Angel
4 [LE] Glowrider
3 [ZEN] Kor Sanctifiers
4 [PLC] Calciderm
4 [ZEN] World Queller
4 [WWK] Lodestone Golem
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [MR] Chrome Mox

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 3 [6E] Wrath of God
SB: 3 [A] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 3 [FUT] Patrician's Scorn
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [MR] Loxodon Warhammer

Looks fun, but there's a few notes I have. I was brainstorming my own more aggro list just a minute ago, for some reason the page bumped me... Anyhow:

-I don't think I like Lodestone Golem all that much for this deck. Without more artifact creatures or something, it seems like he hurts you almost as much as your opponent.

-Have you considered Flickerwisp at all? I think he could be pretty tight, since he acts as pseudo-removal to let your big guys alpha-strike. And he has a pretty aggressive body himself... It doesn't answer things as permanently as Kor Sanctifiers does, but it hits a wider range of stuff for sure.

-I think Stoneforge Mystic is probably good enough to be a four-of. This deck doesn't have any good two-drop creatures besides him that I can think of, and tutoring for free cards is never really a bad thing. I guess if you go up to four, you'd have to add one more piece of equipment too though.

-I think if you're going to use Crucible at all, it should be more than just a mise copy. Granted, you never really want to draw the second one, but if you only have one and no way to tutor, you're just not going to draw it often enough for it to be worthwhile.

-The Thorn/ Glowrider plan seems somewhat awkward to build around. I feel like by trying to break the symmetry, you just end up limiting your own perimeters for the deck by more than it seems like. You have no real removal, which is probably the most hard thing to accept about it. World Queller is good, but if they can keep feeding him a steady supply of garbage permanents, then you won't nail what you were after.

-How has the Chrome Mox acceleration plan been working out in testing? Are you finding only eight pieces of acceleration to be enough, given that your curve is on the high end and you're only running 20 lands (including Tomb, which is half your accel)?

...I really like the idea of the deck, but I'm not really sure if any of us have hit the right balance yet. I guess I'm mostly just spit-balling ideas.

EDIT: Maybe Solemn Simulacrum for more acceleration/ more artifacts to appease Lodestone Golem? (It's also another way to draw cards...)

[eq.firemind]

Necro.

Phyrexian Revoker is obviously good, but there is another card from new sets that hooked me: Chancellor of the Annex. It gives you a free time walk by just sitting in your opening hand and if you'll manage to drop a decent combination of lockpieces, it can actually prevent your opponent from casting a single spell.

Effect looks powerfull to me, so the question is how to make the card usefull outside your starting grip. You can play a deck with acceleration to drop it earlier than you normaly would or you can pitch it to something. This thread's subject has everything to abuse my new toy: Chrome Mox to pitch, acceleration and the ability to capitalize on initial impact.

I'll put a rough sketch here and will do some testing later.
Chancellor AggroStax
Mana (26):
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
2 Flagstones of Trokair
8 Plains
4 Chrome Mox

Creatures (17):
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Aven Mindcensor/Leonin Arbiter
2 World Queller
3 Sun Titan
4 Chancellor of the Annex

Spells (17):
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Suppression Field
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Oblivion Ring
3 Armageddon

[yadda]

heres my first pass at a deck incorporating the cards printed recently,

thalia is great but im really not sold on the chancellor.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
2 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [TE] Wasteland
7 [MM] Plains (3)

// Creatures
4 [ON] Exalted Angel
3 [LE] Glowrider
4 [WWK] Lodestone Golem
2 [ZEN] World Queller
4 [GTW] Calciderm
4 [NPH] Chancellor of the Annex
4 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

// Spells
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
2 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
SB: 3 [MPR] Wrath of God
SB: 4 [ROE] Wall of Omens
SB: 4 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [BRB] Swords to Plowshares

[GGoober]

Stompy sucks (coming from someone who loves it a ton :P). But if you're in the white shell, all I can tell you is add 4 Stoneforge Mystic, 1 Batterskull, 1 Jitte, 1 Sword and your gameplan will be much more consistent.

Sure you need to lock people out going the 'workshop' route but Stompy is so inconsistent (even more inconsistent in Legacy without Workshops) that having a consistent tutoring gameplan to win games is important. The reason why Stompy/Stax is weak in Legacy aside from consistency issues is that the decks have issues dealing with an early permanent hitting play e.g. Hierarch/Knight/Goyf. I would recommend 7 slots for the SFM package dedicated within any stompy shell splashing white. It's even more awesome because you can actually hardcast the Batterskull easily if your SFM gets removed.