Counter-Rebel Still [Archive]

(nameless one)

11-30-2009, 11:59 AM

I know that there was a Counter Rebel thread here but for some reason my work computer is crapping on me.

Anyways, Theres a Legacy tournament happening next week and I wanted to try something new. So far my decks have been mono-colored tribal decks in the form of X-land Elvish Stompy, Vial Goblins and Merfolk.

I would love to build other cards but I dont really have fetchlands or dual lands.

My meta is mostly aggro and control (from Zoo, Ux Still, Goblins, Staxx, Fish and an assortment of rogue decks)

Anyhow, this is my attempt to build a tier 2 Counter-Rebel Still with a poor landbase:

Lands:
15 Plains
7 Island

Creatures:
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
2 Ramosian Lieutenant
1 Amrou Scout
1 Defiant Falcon

2 Mirror Entity
1 Big Game Hunter

X- other useful rebels...

Others:
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Leak
4 Mana Tithe
3 AEther Vial
3 Standstill
3 Brainstorm
2 Rewind

As you can see, the deck looks like crap. It definitely needs help

I was wondering if we could fit CounterTop engine to this on top of the Still for counterspells. This way, we can utilize more slots on Rebels

Speaking of Rebels, I dont really know which one to use. I have most of the Rebels as a 1 or 2-of from my EDH deck.

If anyone has any positive comments and suggestions, please feel free to add.

Just me

11-30-2009, 12:24 PM

This deck really like mana and shuffling. In my casual tribal deck I'm using Diving Top and Cloudpost to get loads of mana and with all the shuffling, Top really becomes a strong card to play.

I recommend to keep the blue a splash, which means no Counterbalance. With a budget mana base, double blue is just to hard.

For rebels, use 4 1 drops, 4-6 2 drops, 2 Lin-Sivvi, 2 heavy hitters and the rebel enchantment (silence something???). It's like playing a fetchable Pacifism, quite nice.

I would also play 4 Swords to Plowshares and with the Top, 1-2 Disenchant so you always have some answers maindeck. With Top out, you can find them or keep from drawing them, as preferred.

(nameless one)

11-30-2009, 12:53 PM

from Cairo

11-30-2009, 02:37 PM

Do you have a list that you want to share?

based on his post...

Creatures 13-15
4 Ramosian Sergeant
3 Amrou Scout
2 Whipcorder
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 Big Game Hunter
1-2 Mirror Entity
0-2 Open

Spells 21-25
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3-4 Sensei's Divining Top
2-4 Standstill
1-2 Disenchant
1 Bound in Silence
6-10 Open

Land 22-24
Probably ~2.5:1 ratio of W to U.

If anyone has any positive comments and suggestions, please feel free to add.

The general strategy behind Counter Rebels when it was a Standard deck was just to counter a couple bombs a game and win on the back of having a better creature (board position) engine than opposing decks. That is to say that it wasn't really a counter heavy deck, the majority of lists I remember splashed for Power Sink, Brainstorm, and sometimes Counterspell and Meddling Mage.

At the time it had good game against opposing creature decks because it could afford to take some early damage and then Steadfast Guards and Defiant Vanguards allowed it to take out attackers repeatedly and the Fliers could get in there. Versus control it had Ramosian Sergeant which resolved in before Counterspell was online, so they could chain out a Defiant Falcon and Lin Sivvi, forcing the Uw or Ub deck to Wrath or Tsabo's Decree and then when then either have counter mana up for a Counterspell or Power Sink, or just take advantage of the following turn when the opponent was tapped out to lay another recruiter, and repeat the process. Counter Rebels won the attrition battle because Lin Sivvi recycled the other guys, and the control decks only had 4-6 board sweep effects.

Porting the deck to Legacy is hard because the card pool is just so different. Ramosian Sergeant isn't that bomb against control, they can Swords it or Force of Will it, so it doesn't automatically become active and guarantee a trade with a sweeper effect. Lin Sivvi is also vulnerable to Swords and Path, with RFG effects the recycle ability doesn't offer the same inevitability it once did. Additionally, with Aether Vial the ability to curve out uncounterably is pretty readily available to any tribe/creatures, so by comparison the vanilla 1/1s and 2/1s don't really look that great next to Goblin Lackey, Lord of Atlantis, and the finishers don't compare to Siege-Gang Commander.

I don't mean to sound discouraging, but the meta you posted sounds fairly developed and in all honesty I don't see the Rebel tribe competing.

(nameless one)

11-30-2009, 04:03 PM

based on his post...

Creatures 13-15
4 Ramosian Sergeant
3 Amrou Scout
2 Whipcorder
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 Big Game Hunter
1-2 Mirror Entity
0-2 Open

Spells 21-25
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3-4 Sensei's Divining Top
2-4 Standstill
1-2 Disenchant
1 Bound in Silence
6-10 Open

Land 22-24
Probably ~2.5:1 ratio of W to U.

The general strategy behind Counter Rebels when it was a Standard deck was just to counter a couple bombs a game and win on the back of having a better creature (board position) engine than opposing decks. That is to say that it wasn't really a counter heavy deck, the majority of lists I remember splashed for Power Sink, Brainstorm, and sometimes Counterspell and Meddling Mage.

At the time it had good game against opposing creature decks because it could afford to take some early damage and then Steadfast Guards and Defiant Vanguards allowed it to take out attackers repeatedly and the Fliers could get in there. Versus control it had Ramosian Sergeant which resolved in before Counterspell was online, so they could chain out a Defiant Falcon and Lin Sivvi, forcing the Uw or Ub deck to Wrath or Tsabo's Decree and then when then either have counter mana up for a Counterspell or Power Sink, or just take advantage of the following turn when the opponent was tapped out to lay another recruiter, and repeat the process. Counter Rebels won the attrition battle because Lin Sivvi recycled the other guys, and the control decks only had 4-6 board sweep effects.

Porting the deck to Legacy is hard because the card pool is just so different. Ramosian Sergeant isn't that bomb against control, they can Swords it or Force of Will it, so it doesn't automatically become active and guarantee a trade with a sweeper effect. Lin Sivvi is also vulnerable to Swords and Path, with RFG effects the recycle ability doesn't offer the same inevitability it once did. Additionally, with Aether Vial the ability to curve out uncounterably is pretty readily available to any tribe/creatures, so by comparison the vanilla 1/1s and 2/1s don't really look that great next to Goblin Lackey, Lord of Atlantis, and the finishers don't compare to Siege-Gang Commander.

I don't mean to sound discouraging, but the meta you posted sounds fairly developed and in all honesty I don't see the Rebel tribe competing.

Fair enough...

Although, would it fit in a Quinn-esque deck?

Tool box anything that you need, backed up with Enlightened Tutor to tutor necessary enchantments and artifacts needed to win the game

Maybe a combo-control version?

FieryBalrog

11-30-2009, 04:14 PM

The problem with Rebels is that they all suck except at tutoring up other Rebels, but whats the point in tutoring up other Rebels if they also suck?

Merfolk have lords which is why they can get away with Silvergill Adept and Cursecatcher, both of have better utility than the Rebels anyway.

hjalte

11-30-2009, 04:56 PM

I have played a Death and Taxes list with a few rebels, and I came to the following conclusions:

Knight of the holy nimbus is great. That your opponent needs to use {2} to kill him is oftentimes bad for him, but maybe thats just nice because D&T runs a lot of mana denial.
A single whipcorder or two is quite nice. He taps opponents goyfs/terravore/countryside crusher or whatever nasty stuff they're playing.
You definately needs a single Mirror Entity. He makes it possible to win fast out of nowhere. Tutor him up at the end of your opponents turn, with 2-3 other creatures, and win.
A single Children of Korlis, for a softlock is really awesome, although pretty expensive to run (4 each turn).

darkdeal

11-30-2009, 05:29 PM

There is a rebel infinite life combo that is pretty easy to pull off. You are trying to be budget though, so I assume a Gaea's Cradle is out of the question?

(nameless one)

04-17-2010, 03:14 AM

so.... can this deck work out with Training Grounds?

Add CounterTop engine, possibly a combo-control version?

Gocho

04-17-2010, 05:39 AM

In the spanish forum about Legacy we are testing two list. One with Countertop and another with Standstill.
The rebels + Training grounds works like a charm, but nobody like counterbalance or standstill. We must find a different approach.

We're coming to this schema:
- 19/20 Lands UW
- 8-12 recruiters rebels (4 Ramosian, 2 Lin Sivvi)
- 5-6 utility rebels
- 1 Miror entity
- 4 Training Grounds
- Fill as you want.

I begin with 4 Standstill and go to -2. You don't want to draw rebels too early. You need them in your deck to recruit.

For reference without sideboards:

Training Rebels with Standstill
// Lands
1 Karakas
2 Marsh Flats
6 Plains
3 Island
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand

// Creatures
2 Defiant Falcon
4 Amrou Scout
1 Shield Dancer
1 Defiant Vanguard
1 Mirror Entity
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
3 Children of Korlis
4 Ramosian Sergeant
1 Whipcorder

// Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
1 Bound in Silence
4 Training Grounds
4 Force of Will
3 Path to Exile
2 Standstill

---------------------------------------
Training Rebels with Countertop
// Lands
1 Karakas
1 Kor Haven
3 Marsh Flats
2 Island
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
2 Hallowed Fountain

// Creatures
1 Children of Korlis
1 Mirror Entity
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
2 Defiant Vanguard
2 Amrou Scout
2 Whipcorder
4 Ramosian Sergeant
1 Knight of the Holy Nimbus

// Spells
1 Bound in Silence
3 Daze
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Path to Exile
4 Counterbalance
4 Training grounds
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm

----------------------
Ramosian Sergeant is the best recruiter and 1st turn sergeant, 2nd turn Training Grounds is great. We are choosing the utility slots and the recruiter numbers yet.
Mirror Entity grants a combo-attack finish like in Elves, but you can search for so with double Grounds you can make your critters 5/5 for :1: +:1: (one for search and another one to activate Mirror).
Brainstorm and Top works very well with so many shuffle effects, but as I said, nobody seems to like Counterbalance slot.
Bound in Silence is the secret tech. You can stop any reanimator monster for little mana and nobody expect it.
Counters are here for the massive removal.

The deck is funnier as hell but needs some work.
I want to try adding Ponder or Enlightened Tutor to find TG earlier.

Do you like it?

flrn

04-17-2010, 07:14 AM

Training Grounds also reduces the cost of Knight of the Holy Nimbus' activated ability, so opponents don't have to pay 2 to destroy him. That's quite an argument against playing him.

Big Game Hunter could be a nice addition to the deck. You can get him out via the rebels ability and even if you draw him, you can still shuffle him back with Brainstorm. I would try to fit in some flyer's and Umezawa's Jitte. With that shitload of shuffle effects, you should be able to find Jitte early on. Aven Riftwatcher could be a nice addition to the deck against aggro strategies to stabilize before you get the Counterbalance softlock into play. He is also good at wearing Jitte. Hell, even Zealot Il-Vec could be good at wearing Jitte or destroying utility creatures like Dark Confidant or Noble Hierarch. I most likely would replace Amrou Scout with Defiant Falcon, if you're going to play equipments. Both have Thoughness 1, but the Falcon has evasion, which is really needed with equipments. Dunerider Outlaw could be a good sideboard option against Bant Decks. Every Critter they play is green and you can fetch him really early on with Ramosian Sergeant. He should grow really fast. He's also good against Canadian, if you catch them offguard without burn spells in their hand.
(http://magiccards.info/ts/en/47.html)

Gocho

04-17-2010, 08:28 AM

Training Grounds also reduces the cost of Knight of the Holy Nimbus' activated ability, so opponents don't have to pay 2 to destroy him. That's quite an argument against playing him.

Big Game Hunter could be a nice addition to the deck. You can get him out via the rebels ability and even if you draw him, you can still shuffle him back with Brainstorm. I would try to fit in some flyer's and Umezawa's Jitte. With that shitload of shuffle effects, you should be able to find Jitte early on. Aven Riftwatcher could be a nice addition to the deck against aggro strategies to stabilize before you get the Counterbalance softlock into play. He is also good at wearing Jitte. Hell, even Zealot Il-Vec could be good at wearing Jitte or destroying utility creatures like Dark Confidant or Noble Hierarch. I most likely would replace Amrou Scout with Defiant Falcon, if you're going to play equipments. Both have Thoughness 1, but the Falcon has evasion, which is really needed with equipments. Dunerider Outlaw could be a good sideboard option against Bant Decks. Every Critter they play is green and you can fetch him really early on with Ramosian Sergeant. He should grow really fast.
(http://magiccards.info/ts/en/47.html)

Yes, I agree you, but is 2/2 Flanking for cc=2 so you can search it with sergeant. Some people like it

As I say, the utility rebels must be choosen yet. Big Game Hunter sees weaker that Vanguard or Shield Dancer, you can't target a lot of Zoo or Merfolk creatures. I don't know if the deck need Jitte, you can use the :4: mana that cost Jitte + equip to recruit Mirror Entity and make all your dudes 4/4, and you don't need to find it.

Dunerider Outlaw is a interesting card, but the deck makes 2-0 vs Bant in the tests (not many of them), I don't know if the deck would need it but waste a single slot, must try it.

ktkenshinx

04-17-2010, 11:16 AM

As I posted in the Training Grounds thread in SCD, I strongly encourage the use of Shapesharer in the deck. He is excellent against a ton of Legacy archetypes and fits nicely into the deck. I might also strangely recommend Rebel Informer for various matchups, at least as long as Training Grounds is in play. For 1 mana off of Lin Sivvi and for 1 mana off of the Informer, he effectively saves any Rebel from removal. He himself is immune to Swords. These are both ideas that I immediately had in regards to the recently released Training Grounds.

Also, as a rules point, Training Grounds says "Up to {2} less", which means (as mentioned in the FAQ), that you do not need to apply Training Grounds to your creatures. Knight of the Holy Nimbus will still cost {2} to suppress, if you so choose. And of course, you will obviously choose not to apply that effect to the Knight.

-ktkenshinx-

Gocho

04-17-2010, 12:40 PM

We are trying to make the deck not many dependent of TG, without it Shapesharer needs many mana that you need to recruit.

I like the effect of Rebel Informer, but I think that the deck doesn't need it, Lin Sivvi has the same effect except for Swords and Paths. You can't activate it without TG if you want to keep recruiting rebels, and with cc=3 you can't search for him with Sergeant, so you need to search a cc=2 rebel recruiter and search for them the next turn making it slow. With TG in play, you can simply search another Rebel with Sergeant, Mirror entity with the other recruiter and attack for kill with your 5/5 guys backuped with counters next turn. After some turns, you always would have more creatures than your opponent removal+creatures.

Anyway, I'll test both of them as a lonely slot. The deck would use a utility set of Rebels, but not many of them.

(nameless one)

04-17-2010, 03:35 PM

Good question with Mirror Entity:

Let say I have 2 Training Grounds; if I pay just 1 mana, would Mirror Entity activate for 5 mana?

HPB_Eggo

04-17-2010, 06:19 PM

Crib Swap seems like it would be good. Tutorable StP with Training Grounds out can't be a bad thing.

(nameless one)

04-17-2010, 09:56 PM

Unfortunately, you cannot recruit non-permanent rebels :(

Meekrab

04-17-2010, 11:29 PM

Good question with Mirror Entity:

Let say I have 2 Training Grounds; if I pay just 1 mana, would Mirror Entity activate for 5 mana?
Announce the ability for X=5, apply cost reducers, pay cost. Yes.

Also, OP's deck needs moar Terramorphic Expanse.

theintangiblefatman

04-17-2010, 11:32 PM

Also, as a rules point, Training Grounds says "Up to {2} less", which means (as mentioned in the FAQ), that you do not need to apply Training Grounds to your creatures. Knight of the Holy Nimbus will still cost {2} to suppress, if you so choose. And of course, you will obviously choose not to apply that effect to the Knight.

This doesn't sound right. Your opponent (presumably) is paying the cost, so they get to choose whether or not to apply the reduction effect, correct?

Pastorofmuppets

04-18-2010, 01:26 AM

These lists need more Umezawa's Jitte.

Gocho

04-18-2010, 04:32 AM

These lists need more Umezawa's Jitte.

Autoquote:

I don't know if the deck need Jitte, you can use the mana that cost Jitte + equip to recruit Mirror Entity and make all your dudes 4/4 or more, and you don't need to draw it.

flrn

04-18-2010, 05:25 AM

I don't know if the deck need Jitte, you can use the :4: mana that cost Jitte + equip to recruit Mirror Entity and make all your dudes 4/4, and you don't need to find it..

Yeah but you can only do those kinda moves, if you have Training Grounds. If you don't have them, you need a shitload of mana to this move and you only play 19 lands. The point is. You can play critters with evasion. There are fyling rebels, as well as rebels with shadow and when you play Umezawa's Jitte, you got an additional removal, which makes all of your critters stronger. It also makes your deck less dependant on Training Grounds. And in the second game, your opponent knows, that Training Grounds is a kinda key card in your deck and will handle it as fast as possible and you probably don't have the counter to answer your opponents move. And enchantment hate is in every freakin sideboard out there.

I'm kinda interested in the idea of this deck and will test a list soon. I don't know yet, if you have to play a softlock like Counterbalance or stuff like Standstill. I will test a list without both of em. Since you have the kombo kill, i feel like there aren't many cards out there apart from mass removal, which can really disrupt our gameplan.

Critters (17)

1 Children of Korlis
3 Defiant Falcon
2 Defiant Vanguard
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
1 Mirror Entity
4 Ramosian Sergeant
2 Whipcorder
1 Zealot Il-Vec

Utility (24)

1 Bound in Silence
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Spell Pierce
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Training Grounds
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Mana (19)

4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Kor Haven
5 Plains
4 Tundra
3 Windswept Heath

The blue count for Force of Will is extremly low, but this UW Tempo stuff also has a low count. They draw more cards in the game though. Needs to be testet, but i don't see how i can include more cards, without weakening the game plan of filling the board with rebels. In the second game the opponent will for sure expect the combo kill, so Jitte seems like a decent second plan to win the game. Training Grounds will be handled in the second game. We also need to think of some sideboard cards. With Defiant Vanguard and Zealot Il-Vec we got two creatures, which can be fetched out to destroy opponent critters alongside the 3 Swords to Plowshares. Therefor i play Spell Pierce over Counterspell and other stuff, since you really don't wanna support UU.

I also really want to include Aven Riftwatcher in the deck, but i didn't find any place for it. You can't lower your blue count anymore. He really should be in the sideboard though, to fight aggro decks like Zoo.

Gocho

04-18-2010, 08:50 AM

I caught your arguments and I like them. All the techs that make the deck less dependent in TG, would be good.

Is obvious, but the deck have 2 big problems. Not finding TG at time and massive removal. You can face removal with counterspells, but vs fast decks you are going to die without TG.
Perhaps -3 Top + 3 Ponder would increase your Blue count to Fow, and make finding an early TG more easy. Top needs more mana but grants you a better late game.

I'ld go -1 Zealot +1 Aven Riftwatcher if you want to go for the evasive way + Jitte.

I want to try a soft-lock with multiples Children of Korlis maindeck. You can search for one every turn, and recycle into the deck with Lin Sivvi, even if the opponent plow she. This could give you some turns to grant a combo-kill or a Jitte.

flrn

04-18-2010, 09:05 AM

I didn't have time for testing yet, but i really wanna try out that shadow guy, because he should be also good on his own, without wearing a Jitte. There's so much decks out there, who use utility creatures like Noble Hierarch or Dark Confidant and the shadow guy seems like a great guy to get rid of em. You don't need to counter Dark Confidant or use Swords to Plowshares to get rid of him. You simply attack.

I think Sensei's Divining Top is really great with that much shuffle effects. And another thing. Apart from Training Grounds and Umezawa's Jitte, you don't need to do anything in your own turn, if you have like 1 or 2 rebel recruiter guys out. You can do everything at the end of the opponents turn. That's what i like. But yeah we kinda need to get a high blue count, so removing Top für Ponder could be a viable option. Needs testing!

If we start to thinkg about sideboard i would give Big Game Hunter one slot, to have a tutorable removal against Reanimator strategies. Dunerider Outlaw seems decent against Bant decks and Canadian as a tutorable 1-off sideboard card. The trend lately shows, that people rather splash for red as mass removal, than playing stuff like the good old Wrath of God, so i probably would add Absolute Law to the sideboard. Should be also decent in the Zoo matchup, since most of their removal is red. Against aggro strategies Aven Riftwatcher should be included in the sideboard. Also a great guy to wear a Jitte for some rounds. And you also can get him back via the second ability of Lin Sivvi. Additional Children of Korlis and/or Ethersworn Canonist seem to be the best choice against storm. Ravenous Trap seems like the best graveyard hate to fight Dredge at the moment, so i would go for it. I feel like we can fight Reanimator strategies already quite good, with our tutorable removal main and Swords, Spell Pierce and Force of Will. So i probably would go for something like this:

Sideboard:

1 Big Game Hunter
1 Dunerider Outlaw
3 Aven Riftwatcher
3 Absolute Law
3 Children of Korlis
4 Ravenous Trap

I'ld go -1 Zealot +1 Aven Riftwatcher if you want to go for the evasive way + Jitte.

Zealot has shadow. That's an even better evasion than flying. No one's playing shadow creatures these days. But it also can't block your opponents creatures.

Gocho

04-18-2010, 10:05 AM

After asking to our Lvl 1 Judge, you can attach Bound in Silence to guys with Shroud if you recruit it. So Bound is better option vs Reanimator than Big Game Hunter ;)

I like the Absolute Law idea. Would go 1 slot if finally play Enlightened Tutor.

ktkenshinx

04-18-2010, 12:25 PM

Assuming you are using Brainstorm, Top, and Fetches, it is extremely unlikely that you will not find a Training Grounds by around turn 3. You have a 40+% chance of drawing it in your opening hand to begin with, and that chance gets rather high with all of the digging you can do. Indeed, given the deck's dependence on Grounds, it might be advisable to add in some Enlightened Tutors. It is on color, low in mana cost, and can tutor for a number of relevant pieces. Jitte, Top, Crypts/Relic, and Grounds. Adding even just 2 would greatly increase your chances of finding the much-needed Grounds.

-ktkenshinx-

(nameless one)

04-18-2010, 09:21 PM

Mystical_Jackass

04-18-2010, 10:12 PM

Cool deck idea. I like Lin Sivvi, was a favorite back in the day.

The name's sorta Lawl'ish though... like you were just sorta tired and threw together the first thing you could think >.> "merfolk tempo dredge-still-ism" lol

Jaynel

04-18-2010, 10:25 PM

Can you explain Bound in Silence with shroud please.

Auras only target when they are cast.

flrn

04-19-2010, 02:45 AM

Can you explain Bound in Silence with shroud please.

When you search for the aura with a rebel you decide on which creature the aura gets dropped. The spell doesnt get casted, and doesnt target anything. It just gets dropped onto that creature. That's why it works on shroud creatures, if searched by a rebel.

Gocho

04-19-2010, 04:25 AM

Auras only target when they are cast.

When you search for the aura with a rebel you decide on which creature the aura gets dropped. The spell doesnt get casted, and doesnt target anything. It just gets dropped onto that creature. That's why it works on shroud creatures, if searched by a rebel.

Right :)

Cool deck idea. I like Lin Sivvi, was a favorite back in the day.

The name's sorta Lawl'ish though... like you were just sorta tired and threw together the first thing you could think >.> "merfolk tempo dredge-still-ism" lol

This was the original thread title months ago.
You can read that we call the deck Training Rebels, perhaps Trained Rebels or Veterans would like you more :)
Anyway, the deck is open to any idea, naming issues included. I don't copyright it :D

pcccp

04-19-2010, 08:20 AM

(nameless one)

04-19-2010, 09:54 AM

I played around with this deck and the possibilities training grounds offer and i can say that stoneforge mystic and azorius guildmage are both good cards in this deck. I play 1 jitte and 1 SoFaI and bringing SoFaI into play for 1 mana with TG + Mystic is super cool. Azorius Guildmage is sometimes nothing more then a pitch card for FoW but can lock down some decks completly with TG in play. I played some games against merfolk and he owns them. (stifles wasteland, aether vial, jitte equip and taps all beaters for one mana)

I am testing the deck against several archetypes and i have so far good results against merfolk, 50/50 against goblins and a bad matchup against zoo.

Would you like to share your list?

The current list I have been testing off of MWS looks like this:

4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Windswept Heath

4 Ramosian Sergeant
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 Children of Korlis
1 Amrou Scout
1 Ramosian Lieutenant
1 Whipcorder
1 Defiant Vanguard
1 Mirror Entity
1 Shield Dancer
1 Shapesharer
1 Dunerider Outlaw
1 Big Game Hunter

4 Brainstorm
4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
4 Training Grounds
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Bound in Silence

Its not optimal right now but so far, Its been working for me. Its a fun deck nonetheless. I actually want to put a combo finish to it, since the deck itself is a defensive deck.

pcccp

04-19-2010, 10:10 AM

This is the list i am testing now, but i will go -1 azorius, -1 knight of the holy n., +1 bound in silence, +1 shield dancer.

// Lands
4 [U] Tundra
5 [ZEN] Plains (3)
4 [ZEN] Island (3)
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand

// Creatures
3 [DIS] Azorius Guildmage
4 [MM] Ramosian Sergeant
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
1 [TSP] Knight of the Holy Nimbus
2 [NE] Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 [TSP] Children of Korlis
1 [LRW] Mirror Entity
1 [NE] Defiant Falcon
1 [ON] Whipcorder

// Spells
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [ROE] Training Grounds
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [NE] Daze
2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [MM] Brainstorm

(nameless one)

04-19-2010, 10:21 AM

Hows Azorius Guildmage? Is she worth the slot? I would imagine under Training Grounds that she'd be the bane of Fetchlands.

I find that I didn't need Stephanie (Stoneforge Mystic) because the deck sifts itself pretty well with all the rebel-fetching. And late game, when you need it, Jitte will show up no problem.

Also, with my MWS testing, Daze somehow sets us back a landdrop, which is really important for this deck. I actually want to steal Quinn's Snowland Draw engine to ensure I get every landrop, but with the low land count, I think its not as effective.

Its a good thing that you're going to get rid of Knight of the Holy Nimbus as he gets shafted under an active Training Grounds.

Have you ever tried running a combo finish? I already found a great synergy with Lin Sivvi and Children of Korlis under an active Training Grounds. Given that your opponent can't go for lethal, you can preserve your life no problem.

pcccp

04-19-2010, 11:44 AM

Children of Korlis wasn´t that usefull so far. I think its a good card against Tendrils, so 1 in main should he ok. Often you cannot use her at all. You cannot chump with her AND use the abillity and when you are at 10 life and your opponent attacks for lethal children is just useless. Its helpful against an opponents Jitte (block and then sac).

ReAnimator

04-19-2010, 12:13 PM

Would Negate be better then spell pierce here? It seems like you are always going into the late game so i wonder if the draw back of pierce is a liability? Counterspell seems like a bit of a liability mana wise, and daze seems really counterproductive, and doesn't help at all in the mid game which is where you want to be.

(nameless one)

04-19-2010, 02:15 PM

I currently am not running any Daze, Spell Pierce and Counterspells. Although I havent really hit any snags just relying on Counterbalance and Force of Wills alone, I would imagine that the counterspell density is pretty low.

I am still contemplating on adding hard-counters on top of the mentioned two in the deck. After all, it is COUNTER-rebels. I am actually thinking of using 1 or 2 Remands as a late game counter, as well as a 4CC target for Counterbalance.

I also like the idea of Negate as it is 2CC. Before, my list was +3 Daze, -2 Jitte, - 1Shapesharer because the deck lack 2CC. I have since replaced it with the latter choices but if the deck ever needs more permission spells, Negate doesnt seem bad.

ReAnimator

04-19-2010, 04:04 PM

What do people think about Mulldrifter as a draw engine in here? (assuming that training ground works with it) Is that just too inconsistent/bad to matter?

Gocho

04-19-2010, 04:23 PM

I think on it, but doesn't work. TG only affects to Creatures, not creature Cards so it must be in the table.

ReAnimator

04-19-2010, 04:43 PM

Yeah i just looked it up on the FAQ

* Training Grounds affects only creatures you control on the battlefield. The costs of activated abilities that work in other zones (such as cycling or unearth) won't be reduced.

=(

(nameless one)

04-20-2010, 02:37 AM

I have been experimenting with this:

20 U/W lands

2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 Children of Korlis
1 Amrou Scout
1 Defiant Falcon
1 Ramosian Lieutenant
1 Whipcorder
1 Defiant Vanguard
1 Mirror Entity
1 Shield Dancer
1 Dunerider Outlaw
1 Big Game Hunter

4 Sensei's Diving Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
4 Training Grounds
3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Bound in Silence

So far, Enlightened Tutor really works wonders. I am still skeptical over Jitte.

TokenMaster

04-21-2010, 12:34 AM

I have been experimenting with this:

So far, Enlightened Tutor really works wonders. I am still skeptical over Jitte.
Is Ramosian Sergeant really unncecessary? A potential turn 2 recruit/turn 3 double recruit sounds pretty nice.

Vacrix

04-21-2010, 02:09 AM

(nameless one)

04-21-2010, 11:17 AM

I think this deck actually has a lot of potential. Standstill should be an auto include. You can cast creatures under it with the rebel tap abilities.

Also, the deck should really abuse Children of Korlis some more. The fact that you can tutor him up with so many creatures (Lin Sivvi is scary) is a big surprise against an opponent who is unfamiliar with the matchup. Decks with Burning Wish have to go for Pyroclasm to get rid of all the creatures, or go for EtW because Tendrils won't get there when you can search for Children of Korlis in response.

You ought to include at least one Standstill in your list then. Its too strong to pass up, seriously.

I dont know if I've been playing with chaff players off of MWS but so far, I have a winning record. Most of the games that I've lost, I either got mana screwed or had to mull to 5.

Children of Korlis is awesome in keeping yourself alive. I once had a game facing a Progenitus and actually survived because of Children of Korlis. I had 2 Training Grounds so for two mana, I was able to gain the 10 life I lost every turn thanks to Lin Sivvi. I don't know what my opponent was doing by I managed to ramp with so much mana that instead of recruiting back Children of Korlis, I went for the Mirror Entity win. That was one of my most epic games.

So far, I only had one game where I actually like Jitte (it was against burn. Jitte kept me alive). Would a single Standstill be really helpful?

Also, I find that Ramosian Sergeants arent as good of a 1 drop as I would imagine because I am either going for turn 1 SDT, turn 2 Cbalance or turn 1 Training Grounds, turn 2 Lieutenant.

Also, instead of having toolbox control, I was thinking of toolbox life combo (Task Force + Outrider en-Kor) but I don't know how effective this would be.

Gocho, what is your current situation on the deck?

Gocho

04-21-2010, 12:33 PM

I don't test it because we have our monthly Legacy League Tournament this Saturday.
With all the European airports closed my ROE order will not arrive until the next week, so I'm testing another decks.
It's a pity, because if we can get a decent list, I think that the deck have potential.

Sergeant seems the MVC in the deck in my testing. She could search for almost any rebel and T1 Sergeant, T2 TG + Recruit for :1: is stronger that T1 TG, T2 Lieutenant and gives you a better option vs combo.

ktkenshinx

04-21-2010, 12:35 PM

Is Ramosian Sergeant really unncecessary? A potential turn 2 recruit/turn 3 double recruit sounds pretty nice.
In the Countertop version, I agree that Sergeant is a bit useless. You have 8 possible turn 1 plays; 4 Top or 4 Grounds. These all tend to be better than just a lowly Sergeant, especially if you can follow the Grounds up with a Scout/Lieutenant.
Now, that being said, in the non CT version, Sergeant is definitely valuable. You only have 4 Grounds as a possible turn 1 play. Having the option of Turn 1 Sergeant AND turn 1 Grounds greatly increases the deck's consistency.

The real question in deck development right now seems to be Countertop vs. Standstill. Countertop's 8 requisite slots mean that consistent Standstilling is unlikely. This feels problematic, considering how outrageously good Standstill is with Rebels. I am also uncertain about the slot problem; my own build is a bit tight on extra slots, and I cannot imagine what I would remove for the additional 4 cards needed to support the Countertop engine. Nameless One's list has a surprisingly few number of rebels; only 13 in total. Given the importance of dropping an early recruiter (Scout/Lieutenant/Sergeant/Falcon), I feel that this number should be higher. My own count is about 18. This leaves plenty of room for 4 FoW, 4 Daze, 4 Brainstorm, 4 Swords, and some Standstills, Bound in Silence, Tutors, etc.

The only nice thing about Countertop in this deck that other decks cannot match is the repeated shuffling. If your initial top activation sees no cards of equal CMC, then you can recruit something up on the cheap and try again. But is it a necessary synergy? Is countertop important in the deck?

-ktkenshinx-

(nameless one)

04-21-2010, 01:16 PM

ktkenshinx

04-22-2010, 12:54 AM

Currently, I have no problem with my current number of rebels. Basically, my main strategy is to stall via Counter-Top engine or fetch needed rebels. Then late game, go for a massive army of rebels with the help of Mirror Entity and Training Grounds.

At 1st, I tried just using Standstill but with no success. I tried both CounterTop and Standstill and it showed success, but since the deck was too tight, I ultimately removed Standstill. I could be wrong, but then again, I am still testing the deck. Also, I have sacrificed other permission spells to make room for CounterTop. So, my only castable permission is Force of Will.

ktkenshinx:

Would you like to share your current decklist?

The main difference in our lists is the number of rebels. Specifically, I really like the turn 1 Sergeant/Grounds option followed up by a turn 2 Scout/Falcon/EoT Brainstorm. In testing this has proven a strong opening that gets you ready to handle anything by turn 3, roughly the time at which mosts decks hit their stride. Backed up with a playset each of FoW and Daze, this has proven enough to weather those initial turns until you can get some recruiting going on.

Counter Rebels: Draft 1

Lands: 20
4 Island
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
5 Plains
1 Marsh Flats
1 Tropical Rainforest
1 Karakas

Creatures: 17
4 Amrou Scout
4 Ramosian Sergeant
1 Children of Korlis
2 Defiant Falcon
1 Shield Dancer
1 Defiant Vanguard
1 Mirror Entity
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 Whipcorder

Spells: 23
1 Bound in Silence
4 Daze
3 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Path to Exile
4 Training Grounds

I have not decided on a sideboard, but it will probably include 1 Bound in Silence and 3 Crypt/2 Trap, the latter of which is, in my experience, an awesome package against graveyard based decks. The rest is sort of up in the air.

As to the maindeck, I have found that the initial 3 turns are the most critical in keeping the deck rolling. This is especially true against Zoo, Dredge, and Goblins. To that end, 4 Sergeants/Scouts and 2 Falcon smoothes out early game play, along with the possibility of a clutch Training Grounds drop on the first or second turn. Defiant Vanguard is awesome against Zoo/Countertop/Threshold because he wrecks Goyfs. Shield Dancer is a bit redundant in some cases, and I am looking to replace it with something.

I have considered adding in some Enlightened Tutors in place of a few rebels and maybe even the Paths. If so, then I would probably also add an equipment or two to diversify the tutor possibilities. Grounds is just so integral to the deck that failing to produce one by turn 4 is often a game breaker.

If I added Countertop to the build, I would make the following cuts:
-1 Shield Dancer
-2 Amrou Scout
-4 Daze
-1 Standstill
+8 CounterTop

This would still exclude the Tutors from the build, however.

-ktkenshinx-

TokenMaster

04-22-2010, 02:46 AM

ktkenshinx: Your list is almost identical to mine. I think 4 of each countertop piece is a bit much, though. I only have 3 of each and have 2 Enlightened Tutors in the place of the fourth copies.

How useful has Shield Dancer been for everyone?

Vacrix

04-22-2010, 04:02 AM

Can you activate Shield Dancer twice? If you can deal double damage then it can kill goyfs and such if you have Training Grounds in play.

Also, I think its worth noting that a trick with Children of Korlis (CK). When you lose 10 life, you can sac it and gain 10 life.. each time. So if you have Lin Sivvi, Training Grounds, and another Rebel(s) in play, you can tutor CK, sac it, put it on the bottom, and then repeat for each other rebel in play (provided you have enough mana).

Gocho

04-22-2010, 04:45 AM

Grollub

04-22-2010, 06:59 AM

Cutting Sargeant, regardless of build, seems like downright blasphemy, it's the singlemost "brutal" turn 1 play the deck is capable of - Training Grounds is only useful with a recruiter without summoning sickness and Top isn't really all that on turn 2 (barring the turn 2 Balance -> lucksack blindcounter).

(nameless one)

04-23-2010, 01:17 AM

Shield Dancer kills goyfs with a single activation, you make * damage with her ability and 1 damage because she is a 1/3.
But yes, you can activate it twice, but only works as you want with double strike critters, because the ability redirects damage.

This trick with CK is why I pack multiples CK in my decks :D, gives to you two or three extra turns after Aggro empty his hand, to find Lin Sivvi and recycle CK :)

The countertop version plays less Rebels because the deck needs the 8 slots to the countertop engine.

With Standstill you can play more rebels, and I won't go with less than 11 recruiters because as you know after playing Belcher, this is the perfect number to get 1 single recruiter in your initial 7. This gives you 11 recruiters + Mirror Entity + 5/6 utility rebels = 17/18

Both are good options, but the way you must play them are very different
Anyway, as I say, Standstill and Countertop didn't seems the cards that the deck needs in our testings. You don't need the extra draw from Standstill when you can play it safely and many times you must choose between Countertop or Recruit+TG with your cantrips. We must find a different pack yet that can make the deck faster to survive vs the fastest matches.

I agree with Gocho here.

I find that early game, CounterTop Rebels are very vulnerable. CounterTop Rebels only work really well if your opponent has a low curve. I guess my luck with the CounterTop Rebels started running out as the deck started to miserably fail. I am currently working on my Standstill version.

Gocho, would you like to share your current list? Thanks!

And I agree, Ramosian Sergeant is really good. Its essentially our Lackey. However, it did not work with CounterTop version because it doesnt curve out with it. It is going back in my Standstill version.

EDIT: Would See Beyond be good on this deck?

TokenMaster

04-23-2010, 02:35 AM

I don't think See Beyond is all that good, especially given that you can do that with Brainstorm for one more card at instant speed for one less mana. You can usually shuffle your junk away at will with rebels or fetches.

Would a rebel deck that has countertop, but doesn't rely so heavily on it work? I'm currently using 2 Coutnerbalance since I'm already using 3 Enlightened Tutor and 3 Sensei's Divining Top for utility. I haven't found as much use for countertop as I'd hoped, but it doesn't get in my way much, either.

Indykid Vago

04-23-2010, 03:58 AM

Indykid Vago

04-23-2010, 03:58 AM

This is a very interesting thread .

I have a few questions to the players of this build . I've noticed none of you use AEther Vial , does Vial help in this deck at all ?

I've noticed a no Cataclysm . I assume that Training Grounds would be awesome post Cataclysm , has this been tested ?

There is some flexibility on the manabase but I can see this deck getting away with playing Wastelands . Has Wasteland been tested ?

Gocho

04-23-2010, 04:52 AM

I agree with Gocho here.

I find that early game, CounterTop Rebels are very vulnerable. CounterTop Rebels only work really well if your opponent has a low curve. I guess my luck with the CounterTop Rebels started running out as the deck started to miserably fail. I am currently working on my Standstill version.

Gocho, would you like to share your current list? Thanks!

And I agree, Ramosian Sergeant is really good. Its essentially our Lackey. However, it did not work with CounterTop version because it doesnt curve out with it. It is going back in my Standstill version.

EDIT: Would See Beyond be good on this deck?

I'm playing the Rebels+Still list in the first page yet. I don't like the alternative rebels that we found. I order a playset of TG to test it vs real decks but doesn't arrive.

This is a very interesting thread .

I have a few questions to the players of this build . I've noticed none of you use AEther Vial , does Vial help in this deck at all ?

I've noticed a no Cataclysm . I assume that Training Grounds would be awesome post Cataclysm , has this been tested ?

There is some flexibility on the manabase but I can see this deck getting away with playing Wastelands . Has Wasteland been tested ?

Wow! Cataclysm seems a perfect card for this deck. You need a lot of mana to play with rebels, but a playset of Flagstones of Trokair would make the trick, one land from Cataclysm, another one from Flagstones and another from your hand, and you are on your way again :wink:
I'll test it in the Standstill slot.

- 2 Stadstill
- 2 Marsh Flats
-1 Plains
-3 Path to Exile

+2 Cataclysm
+3 Flagstones of Trokair
+3 Swords to Plowshares

Make me want to fit some artifacts in the deck, ¿TOP? ¿Another one?

But I don't think that Wasteland could come in without Cataclysm. You need a lot of mana, and the tempo loss would affect you more than your opponent. Wasteland after Cataclysm is an excelent trick if you have ends with 2 lands, a recruiter and a TG and your opponent only have a single critter.

Grollub

04-23-2010, 07:13 AM

What matchup is Cataclysm supposed to improve?

Gocho

04-23-2010, 08:25 AM

This is the first question in TheSource when any new cards appears for any deck, but we don't test the deck enough to know which are the worst matchups. So, it's impossible to know what machups improves Cataclysm.

But land + creatures destruction in almost one side is enough good to worth the testing, much more when we need an alternative way to Countertop or Standstill.

Atimos

04-23-2010, 09:23 AM

Hi all!

This is my first comment in the forum but i was reading it time ago.

I was thinking to make a counter rebel list and this thread is helping me much, the addition of cataclysm is very interesting, i´ll test it. Thinking in the Gocho comment, i have searched some useful artifacts from the deck but only i find one that i think it can be useful in our deck: Thousand-Year Elixir maybe the cost 3 is too much for the deck but better test it...

Grollub

04-23-2010, 09:31 AM

This is the first question in TheSource when any new cards appears for any deck, but we don't test the deck enough to know which are the worst matchups. So, it's impossible to know what machups improves Cataclysm.
It's a question you should ask youself everytime you want to try out a new card...

Cataclysm is completely counterintuitive with that Counter Rebel wants to accomplish. You only want to destroy lands if you are ahead on creatures, and you only want to destroy creatures if you're behind - in which case you don't want to lose lands. Wrath of God seems like it would fit much better, given how you force your opponent to overcommit on the battlefield or lose; plus recruiters make it easy to recover.

Gocho

04-23-2010, 10:43 AM

Cataclysm cover both aspect, if you are behind in creatures OR lands, you can Cataclysm. Your recover must fastest than your opponent, you only need to keep a single land in your hand or Daze a turn before to make it even better. Many decks doesn¡'t recover well after land destruction.

If your opponent wants to keep ahead, must keep Creatures and lands in his hand, putting less pressure in the table.

ktkenshinx

04-23-2010, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by flrn
Training Grounds also reduces the cost of Knight of the Holy Nimbus' activated ability, so opponents don't have to pay 2 to destroy him. That's quite an argument against playing him.

The Training Grounds argument is just plain wrong.
1. Training Grounds cannot make an ability cost less than 1.
2. You do not have to make Training Grounds apply to the Knight if you don't want to. The card says "may" cost up to 2 less. If you do not believe me on either of these counts, and I admit that the second seems shady, I encourage you to read the Rise of Eldrazi FAQ found here: http://tinyurl.com/roefaq

"* You may choose not to apply Training Ground's cost reduction effect. You may also choose to apply only part of it (causing an activated ability of a creature you control to cost just {1} less to activate)."

Cataclysm seems quite strong in this deck, especially if you run Flagstones. Imagine a play where you have a Training Grounds, a Recruiter, and a Flagstones. You keep one land and your rebel/enchantment pair, and then you sacrifice the rest. End result; you can still recruit and your opponent is down on the rocks. Sure, it can get FoW'd or Dazed, but what can't? It seems a strong play against most decks, especially if you can back it up with some countermagic of your own.

-ktkenshinx-

(nameless one)

04-23-2010, 01:14 PM

OMFG... how can I forget Cataclysm.

My old old Legacy CounterRebels actually used it. I have also used Artifact Lands so as my artifact count for Cataclysm. I also used Scroll Rack for that build. I cant remember the whole thing as I have abandoned that deck a long time ago (that deck was the reason why I originally made this thread LOL)

Indykid Vago

04-24-2010, 04:10 PM

I've test a bit and here is my current opinion on this deck.

As a rogue deck choice it's a surprisingly strong one , the addition of Training Grounds as a replacement for Gaea's Cradle gives the deck access to Force of Will as well being blue and getting you to the needed 16 blue count for Force of Will .

Running the Mirror Entity finish is definitely feeling like the strongest way to win . So strong that I'm keaning towards running a 2nd MD Entity because of all the Path / Plow running around in MD's .

I wish there was space to run AEther Vial in here because it is a must counter for control decks ,and as Vialing out an EOT recruiter is very strong in this deck . Your opponent has only their own EOT as a window to do something before your rebel goes active . I've played Vial rebels in the past and I really like Vial in the deck but maybe Training Grounds replaces both Gaea's Cradle AND AEther Vial O_O I can't tell yet but in the few games I tested I'm starting to feel that way .

I also think that if this deck doesn't run Vial , then it should probably run a mana denial/destruction package of some sort (although I am unsure of the numbers for this . I'd assume the cards to consider would be Cataclysm , Flagstones of Trokair , Daze , Wasteland and maybe a few Rishadan Ports if there is the space . I'd also like to test Gaea's Cradle , but I am unsure if it can be supported in a 2 color fetchland manabase . Maybe something like this on the manabase .

4 Flooded Strand
5 Additional Fetchlands , 3 on color 2 off color (yeah , I know it's hard to say which is your off color )
4 Tundra
3 Basics
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port

This 22 card manabase runs Wasteland , gets you 14 off color mana and 15 on color mana . You could drop the Ports and add a 1 Hallowed Fountain + 1 more MD spell or you could run 2 Gaeas Cradle in it's place. I'm currently testing the 3 manabases .

The recruiter suite is great at 11 cards (mentioned as the same as Belcher) and I run
4 Ramosian Sargent
3 Defiant Falcon
2 Amrou Scout
1 Ramosian Lieutenant
2 Lin Sivvi , Defiant Hero

Also , Counterbalanceis HOT . I feel the CB versions are way Stronger then the Standstill builds , especially when you MD 2 Cataclysms with CB .

Lastly , my head hurts now . I'll test a bunch more (I absolutely love Rebels btw . )

Benjammn

04-25-2010, 03:49 AM

The Training Grounds argument is just plain wrong.
1. Training Grounds cannot make an ability cost less than 1.
2. You do not have to make Training Grounds apply to the Knight if you don't want to. The card says "may" cost up to 2 less. If you do not believe me on either of these counts, and I admit that the second seems shady, I encourage you to read the Rise of Eldrazi FAQ found here: http://tinyurl.com/roefaq
-ktkenshinx-
Let's look at the updated text for both Knight of the Holy Nimbus and Training Grounds.

Activated abilities of creatures you control cost up to {2} less to activate. This effect can't reduce the amount of mana an ability costs to activate to less than one mana.

If Knight of the Holy Nimbus would be destroyed, regenerate it.
{2}: Knight of the Holy Nimbus can't be regenerated this turn. Only any opponent may activate this ability.
Ok, so you control both a Knight and a Training Grounds. Knights' activated ability that turns off the constant regeneration shield can only be activated by your opponent, presumably when he tries to destroy it. It normally costs 2. However, since Knight is a creature you control, it's activated abilities can cost up to 2 less but not below 1. Even though you do not control the turn-off ability, it doesn't matter, the ability only costs 1 for your opponent. You have no say whether to apply the effect or not, since you don't control the ability.

hjalte

04-25-2010, 04:31 AM

EDIT, Deleted wrongness...

I was wrong, Benjamin is correct. From the rules forum:

The cost reduction is applied by the player, who is activating the ability. Even though it's your Knight and Training Grounds, your opponent gets to choose if he wants to pay {2} or {1}.

Maveric78f

04-25-2010, 07:03 AM

4 wastes and 4 rishadan is the way to go with rebels. They are not much colored mana requiring and you might need a lot of mana, so that these lands can either help you go crazy with your rebels or help you to slow down the game and play tempo. As a consequence, Counterbalance does not belong to the deck. It's UU and the curve requirement is really an issue (a too low 2CC cards count). Standstill not really the card you want neither because Rebels are the creatures, vials and standstill in the same cards (but only for crappy creatures and for an expensive cost...). As for myself, I would for a very disruptive mana base, stifles to protect to complete the mana disruption, to protect from EE and Deed and a lot of mana-relying disruption (daze, spell pierce) and brainstorms.

Lands 21
4 Wastes
4 Ports
7 Fetches
4 Tundras
1 Island
1 Plains

Blues 22
4 FoW
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Training Ground

Whites 17
4 Ramosian Sergent
2 Defiant Falcon
2 Amrou Scout
2 Lin Sivvi , Defiant Hero
1 Children of Korlis
1 Whipcorder
1 Defiant Vanguard
2 Mirror Entity
1 Shield Dancer
1 Bound in Silence

(nameless one)

04-25-2010, 11:44 AM

So we're going to drop StP? Also, having Big Game Hunters and Dunerider Outlaws never disappointed me. Are we also removing Shapesharers? I find it to be really useful in removing pesky Legendary Creatures.

So, are the 14 counters enough? I do like the mana disruption package.

TokenMaster

04-25-2010, 05:37 PM

I still think Swords to Plowshares is necessary. We need to be able to slow down fast aggro decks while we're looking for Training Grounds. Dependiing on your meta, you might want to go between StP and Stifle.

Indykid Vago

04-29-2010, 12:43 AM

STP is absolutely necessary IMO . Legacy is way too combat heavy .

Is there a mono white answer to Prog ?

ktkenshinx

04-29-2010, 01:24 AM

STP is absolutely necessary IMO . Legacy is way too combat heavy .

Is there a mono white answer to Prog ?

I agree that Swords is critical for the deck. Zoo gives Rebels problems, between heavy removal and burn and a rather serious clock. We can deal with Goyf courtesy of Vanguard, Dancer, and Shapesharer, but all the other little dudes get a bit uppity if left unchecked. Swords prevents this.
That said, Path to Exile might be better in certain situations. Sometimes I would rather my opponent get a slight acceleration than 5+ toughness. This life gain, especially if compounded with a second Swords, can really add up over a game, even amounting to a free Time Walk on a besieged opponent. What are your thoughts on this everyone? Swords vs. Path?

As to Prog, Children of Korlis is an amazing answer. For 1 mana you can tutor him into play. For 3 (or 1) more mana, you can get him on the bottom of your deck and repeat again and again. Children stop Progenitus dead in his tracks.

-ktkenshinx-

Kagehisa

04-29-2010, 01:36 AM

There are Moat, CoP : red (or black, white, blue or green), Runed Halo, Humility,Light of Day and Wrath of God (Day of Jugment) that can answer Prog.

Prog has "shroud", "prevent all damage", "cannot be blocked", "cannot be enchanted".

Indykid Vago

05-01-2010, 01:44 AM

I agree that Swords is critical for the deck. Zoo gives Rebels problems, between heavy removal and burn and a rather serious clock. We can deal with Goyf courtesy of Vanguard, Dancer, and Shapesharer, but all the other little dudes get a bit uppity if left unchecked. Swords prevents this.
That said, Path to Exile might be better in certain situations. Sometimes I would rather my opponent get a slight acceleration than 5+ toughness. This life gain, especially if compounded with a second Swords, can really add up over a game, even amounting to a free Time Walk on a besieged opponent. What are your thoughts on this everyone? Swords vs. Path?

If you are running Mirror Entity then I wouldn't worry too much about their life total . You don't really care what they are at until you start swinging with a 6/6 army .

As to Prog, Children of Korlis is an amazing answer. For 1 mana you can tutor him into play. For 3 (or 1) more mana, you can get him on the bottom of your deck and repeat again and again. Children stop Progenitus dead in his tracks.
-ktkenshinx-

For that to work you either have to run multiple Children of Korlis , have Sivvi + 4 mana up , or Sivvi + Training Ground + 1 mana . I've still lost to Prog because none of these happened .

There are Moat, CoP : red (or black, white, blue or green), Runed Halo, Humility,Light of Day and Wrath of God (Day of Jugment) that can answer Prog.

Prog has "shroud", "prevent all damage", "cannot be blocked", "cannot be enchanted".

Of those options the only one I can see running (SB) are Runed Halo or a COP , probably vs Red . Thanks :)

There is some hilarity to using Tariff , which will work vs reanimator strategies as well besides Iona . Tarrif sucks tho .

Grollub

05-01-2010, 07:51 AM

Juxtapose is 100% hilarious against reanimator and progenitus.

Nessaja

05-01-2010, 06:16 PM

I think this is a deck that should be using chrome mox because it can convert mana into card advantage. The faster you start it, the better you're off.

(nameless one)

05-30-2010, 05:24 AM

I have been experimenting with this list with okay success:

6x Plains
5x Island
4x Flooded Strand
2x Marsh Flats
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Kor Haven

4x Ramosian Sergeant
2x Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1x Children of Korlis
1x Amrou Scout
1x Defiant Falcon
1x Ramosian Lieutenant
1x Whipcorder
1x Dunerider Outlaw
1x Mirror Entity
1x Defiant Vanguard
1x Big Game Hunter
1x Bound in Silence

4x Training Grounds

4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Force of Will
4x Spell Pierce
3x Daze

3x Brainstorm
3x See Beyond

So far, I have stopped running both Counter-Top and Standstill. It felt like both are not important to the deck. I actually added See Beyond. Even though its a sorcery, it helps dig through needed cards, as well as shuffling back unneeded or dead cards.

As you can see, I am not running any Tundra. The reason for that is because I do not own any. And even yet, I have not been disappointed over it. I believe the deck would be better if it had Tundras.

I am not 100% with the deck's permission suite. I believe that it can be better but so far, I haven't had any problem with it. I maximized Spell Pierce over Daze because Daze's alternate cost is too great of a drawback for the mana development.

In contrary, I am running 19 lands. I haven't had any problems with it so far. I am not saying the manabase is perfect, I am pretty sure it needs more improvement (such as Tundras).

Try testing it with me and see what you guys think.

I am still contemplating for a sideboard.

To Gocho:

Hows the testing of U/W Rebels there?

Morim_Brightsmoke

06-01-2010, 03:34 PM

Has this deck ever considered playing the Life Combo, with condemn as the main removal spell? There are two rebels that can make the arbitrarily large toughness, so you are really just giving up 2 slots and conceding make the (some of the) removal spells condemn to gain arbitrarily large amounts of life. Thoughts?

ktkenshinx

06-01-2010, 04:39 PM

I have been experimenting with this list with okay success:
I am using basically the same list, with a few changes noted and explained below:
-1 Big Game Hunter
+1 Bound in Silence
In my testing, BGH does nothing that Bound cannot also handle. But Bound circumvents Shroud. That's big against Reanimator, and that's already a scary matchup.

-1 Dunerider Outlaw
+1 Shapesharer
Dunerider has some neat applications, especially against Zoo. Shapesharer has a ton of applications against Zoo AND a ton of others. He blocks Goyfs, he provdes additional recruiters, he surprises opponents, and he's overall a badass. His legend assassination abilities are particularly amazing. He just gives you a level of versatility that Outlaw does not contribute.

-2 See Beyond
+1 Brainstorm
+1 Daze
The instant speed and 1 CMC status of brainstorm really give it the nod against See Beyond in this case. A SB on turn 2 is strong, especially if you have nothing else to do with your turn. But an SB on turn 3 or 4 is risky. It limits your recruiting abilities and might leave you unable to cast a spell that you drew with SB. EOT Brainstorm does not have this weakness.
As to Daze, free counterspells are just so good in this deck. I like to leave all my mana open to counter and recruit, and having a Daze can give me that many more options on an opponent's turn.

So far, I have stopped running both Counter-Top and Standstill. It felt like both are not important to the deck.
Agreed. The 12 counterspells are more than enough, and the CounterTop engine takes up both space and mana. Standstill is win more in most cases, and is only really useful with the 12 counterspells, 4 of which would probably be cut to accomodate its inclusion.

I am not 100% with the deck's permission suite. I believe that it can be better but so far, I haven't had any problem with it. I maximized Spell Pierce over Daze because Daze's alternate cost is too great of a drawback for the mana development.
Mana development is important, but options are more important. having 4 Daze instead of 3 marginally increases those options without a serious, or even marginal, hit to your mana development. You do need EOT mana for your rebels, and if you don't have a Training Grounds, that can get expensive. But that seems an even greater reason to run free countermagic. It lets you use a 3+ mana recruit and not worry about losing your rebels.

Nessaja: Chrome Mox is an interesting idea. For instance, having 2 recruiters in your hand is far less helpful than having 2 mana in play. It also lets you drop a turn 1 Grounds AND recruitier, which is a really strong opening. I am not sure where the cards would go, however; the deck is tight on slots as is.

-ktkenshinx-

(nameless one)

11-03-2010, 01:23 PM

This is kinda necroing but this list made top8 out of 100 people in Catalina:

Top 8 - Iván de Castro - Rebels - "Rebelde Way"

3 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Plains
3 Tundra
1 Amrou Scout
1 Aven Riftwatcher
1 Children of Korlis
1 Defiant Falcon
1 Defiant Vanguard
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 Mirror Entity
2 Ramosian Lieutenant
4 Ramosian Sergeant
1 Shapesharer
1 Bound in Silence
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterbalance
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Training Grounds

Sideboard:

1 Big Game Hunter
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
1 Absolute Law
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Serenity
2 Spell Pierce
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon

Gocho, did your list look like this?

Discuss

Indykid Vago

11-04-2010, 06:58 PM

I wonder what matchup's he brought the Knight in from the SB .

Oiolosse

11-04-2010, 11:47 PM

Im thinking zoo? Blocking it brings the Cats down to kill range and their burn is pretty ineffective against it. Back when I played rebel casually I MD Nimbus, he's fun.

Indykid Vago

11-05-2010, 12:10 AM

I think it may be a bit dangerous to only run a single Mirror Entity . Path and Plowshares are everywhere .

Bound in Silence was great against Reanimator but is I wonder how good it is against Vengevine Survival . I'd almost rather run Big Game Hunter in the MD over the single Bound .

I really really like the manabase tho , and the SB Serenity is pretty interesting .

(nameless one)

11-06-2010, 03:57 PM

I would have definitely used Big Game Hunter on main as well and possibly Dunerider Outlaw.

I wonder how 4 Sergeants and CounterTop worked for him. Whenever I am testing it, there was a conflict between the two strategies.

preddi

11-06-2010, 11:29 PM

Big Game Hunter seems better to me too. But Bound looks better against Vengevines which are everywhere these days.

I've been testing Ancient Tomb now. You just need more speed against Merolk and Goblins and if you don't draw Training Grounds or it gets countered you are really slow compared to them.
But Ancient Tomb seems bad against Wastelands and the damage adds up over time.

Another thing i'm concerned about is his landcount. He plays 18 Lands. I play 20 Lands and have trouble with mulligans -.-
Maybe the Top helps a bit, but then again if you Top the first turns you loose to early attacks.

Alexeezay

11-07-2010, 05:32 AM

@preddi: maybe remove countertop, then 3 lands instead of SDT for a more solid manabase, and spell pierce/spell snare instead of Counterbalance main? just an idea..the deck already takes time to develop with recruiters and training grounds, if u even draw grounds. Do you really think countertop is necessary? it works good with the response/eot recruiting because of SDT activations but I dont know if another counter and a more solid manabase wouldn't be better.. especially in wasteland filled fields (sinkhole decks are dying out)

preddi

11-07-2010, 09:16 PM

I don't think it is necessary but it is a good card no doubt and it is blue which is actually important. Another advantage is that it can protect your searchers without mana.
What do you think of shapesharer? In my opinion there are few niches it can fill. The slots in this deck are short and i think there are better choices.
To the spell pierce / snare suggestion: i often want to counter spells but i have no mana becaurse i played an recruiter. Pierce is good against control based decks, but these matchups are actually good and i don't know if more counters are needed.
My main concern so far are decks like merfolk / goblins and zoo.
Maybe Wrath of God is an option or Worship.
At the moment i'm testing Reverent Mantra. It works great but then again it is not a blue card and i find myself often exile TG for FoW which is awful.

Indykid Vago

11-07-2010, 10:23 PM

The list is running 2 Ramosian Lieutenants instead of 2 Defiant Falcons . I wonder if he was expecting a lot of Engineered Plague .

I wonder how 4 Sergeants and CounterTop worked for him. Whenever I am testing it, there was a conflict between the two strategies.

I had a problem where I would search eot and they would cast post search knowing I had fresh cards on top . Sometimes it worked in their favor , sometimes in mine . Personally I felt that the reshuffling was a boon since you can do it so many times before letting CB trigger .

Big Game Hunter seems better to me too. But Bound looks better against Vengevines which are everywhere these days.

I've been testing Ancient Tomb now. You just need more speed against Merolk and Goblins and if you don't draw Training Grounds or it gets countered you are really slow compared to them.
But Ancient Tomb seems bad against Wastelands and the damage adds up over time.

I love Ancient Tomb in this deck , I run 2 and am trying to fit in the 3rd .

What do you think of shapesharer? In my opinion there are few niches it can fill. The slots in this deck are short and i think there are better choices.

I liked Shapresharer vs Reanimator and Show and Tell decks . If your Meta is heavy on cheating anything into play I'd run Shapesharer .

Alexeezay

11-08-2010, 09:36 AM

shapeshearer can also randomly copy goyfs,tombstalkers,dreadnoughts etc so its a good choice I would say :)

preddi

11-08-2010, 09:58 AM

You can handle almost everything with Bound in Silence or Big Game Hunter, so why shapesharer? I think it's good and it's also blue, maybe i will test it next time. Another problem i see in the list above is the low recruiter count. I imagine a deck like zoo will kill off all your searchers with mass bolts and stuff before you can use them. Counterbalance with 1 CC card on top is the only solution this deck offers to this.
But Zoo is one of the really bad matchups even with CB.

What do you guys think of Standstill? I think it fits well but there is nothing i would cut.

preddi

12-23-2010, 04:43 AM

I'm wondering, has anyone tested some changes? I did test Shapesharer and Countertop a bit. I think they are okay but not too impressive.
The metagame i face at my weekly tournament is very tribal. goyf and CB heavy. I'm looking for some solutions against fast Tibal openings becaurse i often loose to merfolk even with an active Training Grounds.
I'm thinking of something like Wrath of God/Cataclysm or even Propaganda which raises the blue count a little.

Maybe one of you guys have some advice?

I wish you all a nice christmas.

- preddi

Alexeezay

12-23-2010, 07:03 AM

@ preddi: I guess Propaganda would fit the best as it doesn't kill your already played recruiters, ups the blue count & is tutorable via Enlightened Tutor which isn't only good for Sideboard :)

I played the Rebel Deck on the last 2 tournaments and overall it had never disappointed me because it's very solid and got many solutions. I left out CB+Top because it slows down the actual gameplan & is very mana intensive...the meta here has got much aggro, too so you need to be fast.

Merry Christmas!

preddi

12-23-2010, 07:38 AM

Alexeezay

12-23-2010, 10:28 AM

MB:
5x Plains
4x Island
3x Tundra
4x Flooded Strand
1x Arid Mesa
2x Scalding Tarn
1x Gaea's Cradle

4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
3x Spell Snare
4x Force Of Will
4x Training Grounds
3x Swords To Plowshares
1x Bound In Silence

4x Ramosian Sergeant
3x Defiant Falcon
1x Ramosian Lieutnant
1x Amrou Scout
1x Defiant Vanguard
2x Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
2x Mirror Entity
1x Big Game Hunter
1x Aven Riftwatcher
1x Children Of Korlis

SB:
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Pithing Needle
1x Absolute Law
1x Propaganda
1x Serenity
1x Aura Of Silence
1x Wheel Of Sun And Moon
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Relic Of Progenitus
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Dunerider Outlaw

So this is the list I played last time but I put 1 propaganda now into SB.
I actually wanted to fit in Dunerider Outlaw, Shield Dancer and Whip Corder in the MB but there's simply no room :/ maybe cut the Defiant Vanguard for Whipcorder?

Against fast aggro like Merfolk you have to resolve a recruiter as soon as possible. Then get Lin Sivvi+Children Of Korlis going on if possible..by that you can win the game in the long run as you search for mirror entity and stuff soon.
Without Training Grounds it's really hard.. but also possible.

Against Merfolk you board Propaganda and Needle + ETutor.
against Zoo/Burn/Sligh you board in Blue Elemental Blasts and Relic Of Progenitus,Absolute Law+E Tutor,
and so on.

I really want to have success with Rebels in the future because it's a funny deck, so help is always appreciated :)

Alexeezay

12-23-2010, 07:29 PM

preddi

12-24-2010, 02:39 AM

btw didn't read your post fully, preddi :D well if you even got problems with a training grounds it's probably because you haven't got a recruiter resolved yet. Against merfolk I would only counter counters on your recruiters because you simply would win with recuiters...their standstill is also pretty much useless...Pithing Needle from the board slows them down by naming Vial
I just came home early from a party right now and drank alot :D so my post is not that useful.

Hey,
your list looks much like mine. Aside that i play spell pierce instead of spell snare. Why do you consider snare the better play?
I tried out Whipcorder but i wasn't too impressed by it. I now think that Knight of the holy nimbus is a good card in general.
The problem i face with merfolk is that they seem to have the perfect draw each time. And this is really hard to deal with. Dunno maybe i'm just unlucky.

Greets

Alexeezay

12-29-2010, 01:31 PM

Yea you're right, Spell Pierce is more versatile so I'll switch it to MB, since we don't fear cmc2 creatures like Goyf, do we? :)

The problem with Whipcorder is that it doesn't have an immediate effect on the board when you recruit him other than being a small blocker.
So I'll try out Knight of the..

I already thought of adding Disenchant to the SB but then Blue Elemental Blasts are very important against Zoo and Goblins.

Now that Survival is banned, Merfolk will be (one of) the most played decks I think. not good for Rebels :D

Hanni

12-31-2010, 02:00 AM

I haven't read every post in this thread, but from the tiny bit I've sifted, I'd like to chime in.

I fool around with Rebel's from time to time when I get bored, even though they kinda suck in Legacy, because they are still my favorite creature type of all time.

I've tried all sorts of variations before, including the Life-Combo approach, the Vial Aggro approach, Counter-Rebels, WW/b Rebels w/ discard, WW/g Rebels with Gaddock Teeg, you name it.

Anyway, I played against someone on MWS using Rebels, and the new savage tech of Training Grounds really caught my eye.

So I threw together some lists, and found a startling discovery: between Training Grounds, Gaea's Cradle, and Mirror Entity, most of the "slow" issues are gone. The deck doesn't really feel like Rebels anymore, since this transforms it into a combo deck, but the combo itself is rather quick in comparison to previous Rebel builds I've played.

I think the CounterTop and Standstill shells are a bit unecessary. Both CounterTop and Standstill generate card advantage that this deck doesn't need; Rebels already generate absurd amounts of card advantage. Both of those engines are also incredibly slow; speeding the deck up has been, and will continue to be, what this deck needs to improve on to be viable.

Honestly, once the deck successfully gets a recruiter online, this deck is very difficult for the opponent to answer. What that means to me is a focus on early game control, via redundancy and cheap countermagic. Redundancy in the number of recruiters, and cheap countermagic in the form of FoW/Daze/Pierce.

Once a recruiter goes online, it's only a matter of time before the deck hits a critical mass and "combo's off." Both Training Grounds and Gaea's Cradle accelerate this. One recruiter turns into two, which turns into 4 more Rebel's, grabbing Mirror Entity in the process to swing for lethal on the following turn. Whipcorder helps the deck play defensively (when necessary, against aggro) until it can do its thing.

Here's the list I'm playtesting right now, and the maindeck feels pretty solid:

Rebels!

// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [A] Tundra
3 [UNH] Island
3 [UNH] Plains
4 [US] Gaea's Cradle

// Creatures
4 [MM] Ramosian Sergeant
4 [NE] Defiant Falcon
4 [MM] Ramosian Lieutenant
1 [NE] Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
4 [ON] Whipcorder
1 [LRW] Mirror Entity

// Spells
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [ROE] Training Grounds

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [SOM] Turn Aside
SB: 4 [US] Disenchant
SB: 2 [FUT] Bound in Silence
SB: 1 [TSP] Children of Korlis

The sideboard is just a random throw together, and I could actually use some advice on what it should include.

I do want to say that decks that significantly attack the manabase, like Pox and Deadguy Ale/Rock, are difficult matchups. Wasteland itself isn't gg, but dedicated LD is a serious problem. Turn Aside seems like a decent answer for that, as well as being a great sideboard card against decks with loads of target based removal, but I'm wondering if maybe Sacred Ground or Teferi's Response is warranted.

preddi

12-31-2010, 04:07 AM

Hey,

it's cool to see some more response here. Your list looks pretty interesting Hanni.

I noticed your high landcount. Do you feel it is necessary?
I tested Whipcorder and it felt too slow due to it's summoning sickness. How are your experiences with this card?
I really like the high recruit count. But cutting swords and the "toolbox" rebels is indeed changing the whole deck into a fast combo kill which could be better than the old "defend and kill" mechanic but needs some testing.

I think that the first turns (about three) are the deciding ones. If you manage to get a recruit online without taking too much damage, you are probably fine. This is why i think FoW and Daze are too important for this deck even with this low blue count.

How are the Gaea's Cradle doing? I think they are great if you get more than one creature into play. I'm currently running Ancient Tomb for a more possible second two search.

See you all next year!

preddi

perm

12-31-2010, 06:08 AM

Why does it seem to be gospel that there can be only one bound in silence? What if you draw one? what if you need two?

preddi

12-31-2010, 06:33 AM

I don't think it's a gospel. But since Reanimator is almost non existent do you really need this card at all? For cc3 there are far better cards like Big Game Hunter, Defiant Vanguard and sometimes Mirror Entity. Even Whipcorder with cc2 seems better to me in most cases becaurse it's a creature.
I think one Bound is ok but more seems too much to me. Depends on your metagame though.

Another thing to mention is that Bound actually boots Tarmogoyf by two. It's a Tribal Enchantment :/

Alexeezay

12-31-2010, 06:49 AM

nice decklist & idea, hanni! I feel the same that this deck has to follow the combo direction and forget about CBTop/Standstill. When I played the deck on the tournament nobody really expected a Mirror Entity kill out of nowhere and the ridiculous CA by recruiters.

I'm definitely gonna test Hanni's list. I would play 2 Mirror Entity if 1 gets Pathed/Sworded and play 3 Gaea's Cradle instead of 4 because with a cradle in hand and no creatures out yet, cradle is pretty much useless, especially if your tundra gets wasted you are basically lost but I see that you always want to have Cradle...

I also agree with preddi that Whipcorder is situational and a bit slow. I would cut 3 and put in a Dunerider Outlaw/Big Game Hunter/Knight of the Holy Nimbus Package as they also support the " Mirror Entity Attack" (BGH not that much).

I'm thinking about playing Rebels on Jan 8th again and make a little report.

(nameless one)

12-31-2010, 11:33 AM

I actually like Hanni's list although I would add 3-4 toolbox Rebels for certain scenario (such as Big Game Hunter). Both Big Game Hunter and Dunerider Outlaw are excellent Goyf/Vengevine Blockers. Defiant Vanguard could be a good surprise blocker as well.

The only thing I didn't like about Hanni's list is Daze. What I learned from CounterTop Foundry is that a mana-hungry deck cannot really utilize Daze as well as other Tempo decks like Merfolk. I'll pick the deck back again and test Counterspell or Spell Snare on that spot instead.

Hopefully there will be Rebels in MBS (There is a legendary creature that has Rebel on its name according to MTGS's number crunch). This deck could really use additional lords.

Hanni

12-31-2010, 01:31 PM

Before I answer the replies, just keep in mind that I haven't done any significant playtesting with it or Rebels, lately. So some of the numbers may be a little off atm.

I noticed your high landcount. Do you feel it is necessary?
I tested Whipcorder and it felt too slow due to it's summoning sickness. How are your experiences with this card?
I really like the high recruit count. But cutting swords and the "toolbox" rebels is indeed changing the whole deck into a fast combo kill which could be better than the old "defend and kill" mechanic but needs some testing.

I think that the first turns (about three) are the deciding ones. If you manage to get a recruit online without taking too much damage, you are probably fine. This is why i think FoW and Daze are too important for this deck even with this low blue count.

How are the Gaea's Cradle doing? I think they are great if you get more than one creature into play. I'm currently running Ancient Tomb for a more possible second two search.

I do feel that the high land count is necessary, because this is a mana hungry deck. I run 22 lands, but 4 of those lands are Gaea's Cradle, so I'm really only running 18 colored sources. The Gaea's Cradle's should be looked at as an acceleration piece, like a Dark Ritual in Deadguy Ale or a Lotus Petal in Sneak&Show. The difference here is that it requires a land drop and is reusable, but it's Legendary so multiples are dead in hand until you Brainstorm.

I'm actually not sure if I should go up another land or two. Making consistent Island + Plains drops early is key to operating the deck properly.

As far as Whipcorder goes, I think you're right. After more testing, I've never needed to grab the full 4, and the most I've ever needed to grab was 2. I think cutting the Whipcorder's down to 2 should be plenty. The deck only needs to stall for a short period of time, and it has 19 life points it can lose before then. The deck also doesn't need to get a swarm of Rebel's into play; just enough Rebels and mana sources to swing with Mirror Entity for lethal.

I don't think the deck needs a slow defend and kill toolbox or approach. The combo is rather resilient (as Rebel's have always been), and the new tools allow this deck to assemble the combo pretty quickly. Why beat around the bush interacting with Tarmogoyf's when you can just ignore that 3/4 that's attacking you and then swing with 5 5/5 Rebel's in a turn or two?

The blue spell count in my deck is actually at 20. I'm always aware of my blue spell count when building decks with Force of Will, it's like second nature to me at this point.

Gaea's Cradle is there to explode the deck. I agree that initially it is slow, only tapping for a single source for the first Rebel. However, Gaea's Cradle quickly gets out of hand. Once Cradle starts making more mana than a Black Lotus, you know its time to swing with a bunch of large men.

I understand your point of view on Ancient Tomb though, since it does speed up the initial recruiting process. I'll keep this in mind when I playtest the deck some more, and compare Cradle's in gameplay to Ancient Tomb to see which one would work better in actual gameplay.

Why does it seem to be gospel that there can be only one bound in silence? What if you draw one? what if you need two?

What does the deck really need Bound in Silence for? The only thing I can think of is stopping Emrakul, which it does a great job of... but what other problematic creatures do you need to stop? The biggest threats come from creatures that don't need to attack or block, like Knight of the Reliquary (tutoring up Tabernacle), Seasinger (stealing Mirror Entity), Peacekeeper, etc. Bound of Silence does nothing to those targets.

Anything that Bound and Silence can stop, Whipcorder can also stop. Difference being that Whipcorder is a body on the board, which advances your gamplan of swinging for lethal with Mirror Entity.

I'm definitely gonna test Hanni's list. I would play 2 Mirror Entity if 1 gets Pathed/Sworded and play 3 Gaea's Cradle instead of 4 because with a cradle in hand and no creatures out yet, cradle is pretty much useless, especially if your tundra gets wasted you are basically lost but I see that you always want to have Cradle...

I initially playtested with 2 Mirror Entity, but decided to cut to 1 to playtesting purposes to see if I could get away with it. What I do is wait to fetch Mirror Entity until the EOT before I'm going to go off. Going back up to 2 sounds fine.

Going down to 3 Gaea's Cradle may also be a good idea. Like I said, I haven't done enough playtesting to perfect the numbers. Gaea's Cradle is a card you want to see, though, and usually in multiples (because of enemy Wastelands).

I also agree with preddi that Whipcorder is situational and a bit slow. I would cut 3 and put in a Dunerider Outlaw/Big Game Hunter/Knight of the Holy Nimbus Package as they also support the " Mirror Entity Attack" (BGH not that much).

I agree that 4 Whipcorder was overkill in testing, and I'm not sure what the correct number would be. I'm going to cut down to 2 in testing, and then go from there. Honestly, the Whipcorder spots in my list are flex spots anyway.

I actually like Hanni's list although I would add 3-4 toolbox Rebels for certain scenario (such as Big Game Hunter). Both Big Game Hunter and Dunerider Outlaw are excellent Goyf/Vengevine Blockers. Defiant Vanguard could be a good surprise blocker as well.

The only thing I didn't like about Hanni's list is Daze. What I learned from CounterTop Foundry is that a mana-hungry deck cannot really utilize Daze as well as other Tempo decks like Merfolk. I'll pick the deck back again and test Counterspell or Spell Snare on that spot instead.

Hopefully there will be Rebels in MBS (There is a legendary creature that has Rebel on its name according to MTGS's number crunch). This deck could really use additional lords.

Well, the Whipcorders in my list are flex spots, so that would be the place to cut from for toolbox guys. Big Game Hunter does sound pretty good, but I don't really think Dunerider or Defiant Vanguard are really needed, to be honest.

Daze is one of those necessary evils. I know that it slows the decks mana development down some, but it's important to resolve an early recruiter, and Daze helps to do that. I would not cut Daze from my decklist.

Spell Snare does not counter Swords to Plowshares, Lightning Bolt, or Force of Will. Those are the cards that the deck wants to be countering. I'd sooner maindeck Turn Aside than Spell Snare.

I also don't think Rebel's needs Lords. Rebel's is a different type of Tribal deck than Merfolk. Merfolk grinds it out with Lords, that's just how that Tribe works. Rebel's grinds it out with tutoring that puts the guys directly into play; not only does this generate card advantage, it's enables the deck to become a combo deck. Why spend 4 mana tutoring up a Lord when you can spend 4 mana tutoring up a Mirror Entity?

What this deck needs is another 1cc recruiter Rebel...

Rebel Lackey
W
Creature - Rebel
3, T: Search your library for a Rebel card with converted mana cost 2 or less and put that card into play. Then shuffle your library.
0/2

EDIT: After everyone's feedback so far, this is the new revamped list I'm going to be testing on MWS for the next few hours:

Rebels!

// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [A] Tundra
3 [UNH] Island
3 [UNH] Plains
3 [US] Gaea's Cradle
1 [EX] City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 [MM] Ramosian Sergeant
4 [NE] Defiant Falcon
4 [MM] Ramosian Lieutenant
1 [NE] Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 [LRW] Mirror Entity
1 [ON] Whipcorder
1 [PLC] Big Game Hunter

// Spells
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
3 [SOM] Turn Aside
3 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [ROE] Training Grounds

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [US] Disenchant
SB: 4 [8E] Sacred Ground
SB: 2 [FUT] Bound in Silence
SB: 1 [TSP] Children of Korlis
SB: 4 [SOK] Pithing Needle

preddi

01-03-2011, 02:19 AM

I'm looking for a way to add 3 Swords to plowshares to the deck. After a bit of testing this newer Version i just feel naked without them. I think they increase the chance of winning against decks like Zoo, Merfolk and Goblins which are filling my meta recently (and probably even more after the survival ban).

After some games i really like Gaea's Cradle. It feels convincing and if you have 2+ rebels on the board you always want to draw one copy. After checking the prices on ebay i just have to say that i hate Ursa's Saga cards in general :p.

I agree that Dunerider Outlaw is not necessary. Knight of the holy nimbus looks much better to me. I love the idea of blocking a Silvergill Adept or some goblin dudes with it. If you manage to kill a creature with it the opponent will be more careful with his attacks which could give you one or more turns to go off.

Rebels allow you to play cards you like as a 1of. If you like Dunerider than just add one copy. The main reason i play this deck is because i really like the playstyle and some of the creatures.

I wouldn't say this deck needs no lords. In fact it could use lords, but maybe not just a simple +1/+1 effect. It could use some acceleration. I'm looking forward to MBS and hope there is something we could use. A solid blocker with search effect sould be nice too.

1 Whipcorder and 1 Big Game Hunter sounds pretty nice. You can cut them and fully commit to the fast Mirror Entity kill, but i always like the idea of beeing more flexible. Requires some testing though.

About testing: How did your MWS testing go Hanni?

Alexeezay

01-03-2011, 06:00 AM

So I've tested Hanni's new list on MWS a bit and I realized that Turn Aside is not that good MB, I would move it to SB immediately.

1 Dunerider Outlaw would be also a very good Sideboard card as you can block goyfs & KotRs until your Mirror Entity Kill, I would see it more as a defender in G2/G3.

I would even add 1 more land because opening hands can be really weird with the 3 Gaea's Cradle. I had to mulligan because of that, dunno maybe I'm just unlucky.

When do you actually need Sacred Ground? You can play around LD easily by fetching Plains/Island and playing Cradle only in the killing/recruiting mode...but if dedicated LD decks is a problem in your meta then of course it's a useful card.

Turned out that Whipcorder and BGH were fine as 1-ofs, not really anything else needed. I just exchanged a 2CC Recruiter for 1 Defiant Vanguard as we already got so many 2CCs. Maybe I'll add 2nd Mirror Entity in that slot again.

It seems like Zoo and Rock are our worst matchups, Merfolk too but haven't tested against it recently.
What to bring in against them? (next to Children Of Korlis and/or Dunerider Outlaw)

What could I play main for Turn Asides? 2nd Entity,4th Daze and random Spell Snare or something like that?

preddi

01-07-2011, 02:49 AM

Hello again,

this is my list, but i'm still not 100% happy with it.

//Creatures
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
4 Ramosian Sergeant
4 Ramosian Lieutenant
2 Defiant Falcon
1 Amrou Scout
1 Big Game Hunter
2 Mirror Entity
1 Children of Korlis

//Spells
4 Spell Pierce
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Training Grounds
4 Force of Will
3 Daze

//Lands
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
5 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Gaea's Cradle

I'd like to raise the Swords count and maybe add one Knight of the holy nimbus/Whipcorder, but there's no room for it so far. I'm not sure about Lin Sivvi. I think she's great without TG. Maybe cut it to one.

I don't think Turn aside is good enough because it's a bit situational. I think Mana Leak is okay but maybe too slow. Other Options are Divert and Reverent Mantra . Mantra looks very good but is not blue and a highter blue count makes sense if Force of Will is going to stay.

Alexeezay if you play Rebels on saturday a little report would be awesome. I wanted to play it too this week but i don't have the Cradles yet so i'm not sure if i should play it without them.

from Cairo

01-08-2011, 12:38 AM

Dispel, Divert, Force Spike, or Disrupt all seem much more defensible MD cards than Turn Aside.

Turn Aside is just too narrow it's only good against removal. The above cards at least have 1 additional practical application. Dispel (fights counter wars, Stifle, Ad Nauseum) if there's alot of Tempo decks and combo in one's meta this seems better. Divert (great against Zoo and The Rock) misdirecting Bolts and Chains, or Hymns and Vindicates. Force Spike if there's a bunch of Tribal seems better because the cards you're concerned about are Aether Vial and guys, which Turn Aside and the others are all dead against. Disrupt seems fine also, while it doesn't shine against many particular match ups, maybe combo, it always cycles at worst.

That said I can't see any of these being more than a 2-of in the MD. They're nice for surprise factor, but can certainly be dead at times.

Alexeezay

01-11-2011, 09:40 AM

Sorry I picked up my petdeck last saturday so no report, but maybe next time.

Today I checked decks on thecouncil.org & saw a Counter Rebels list made 1st Place in Spain! Sick :D It plays 2 SDT & 3 Counterbalance... I would play City of Traitors instead of Ancient Tomb and only 2 and maybe 2 Cradle then. And 1 more SDT.

Another guy recommended playing Stifle&Wasteland&Daze Tempo Package in Rebels.

If you play straight rebel entity combo like the last lists posted, I would definitely replace Turn Aside with Divert Mainboard.

Cheers

yellow_siomai

01-16-2011, 12:08 AM

While I basically just lurk in these forums, and more of goblins player, I have often had a soft spot for innovative different decks that players are totally unprepared for. Since recently legacy has been a big hit in our place (I'm a vintage player), I just port my gobs to legacy but had the same feeling though on a different spectrum. But I do have some rebel pieces (most of the cards mentioned here) and wanted to try this deck on the legacy scene. I've sleeved up the deck and tried it up a few times, and it was a blast to play, but still it was in its' testing stages and not in tournament plays. I often check this thread for updates and just fine tune the deck. I do agree with Hanni that the counterbalance/standstill shell should be dropped, and opt for a combo finish. I also have too many lands (I'm currently running 24 lands) but I think its a necessary evil to maintain the land drop since this deck is so mana-hungry.

I also wanted to ask here if anyone has tried to make this deck in mono-white. Sure it looses Training Grounds that makes the deck go a lot faster, but I would like to propose a mana base like this:

4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
10 Plains
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Gaea's Cradle

I also run one unconventional card: 1 Eternal dragon. Its plainscycling ability acts a fetch land in the deck and has a nice chance to be casted if given the sufficient mana (in case the Mirror Entity gets countered or worst if removed from the game where Lin Sivvi can't get it back). I maindecked the following cards to slow the game:

4 Rule of Law (since we're not casting our dudes)
4 Ethersworn Cannonist
3 Windborn Muse

Another thing is I also run the infinite life combo in my build (Task force + Outrider en-Kor + Miren, the Moaning Well), and though I admit its clunky, the combo comes handy when the Mirror Entity kill gets nerfed which is usually in games 2-3 where the opponent will do anything to stop it.

Thoughts and suggestions anyone?

owenzzz

01-16-2011, 12:40 AM

Hi Yellow siomai,

I suggest that you still put blue for Training grounds since this fuels the deck. You can also add 2 enlightend for tutor and SB package. :) Just have the combo pieces and maybe 2 mirror entity, children of korlis. :)

Miss playing legacy in Ph.

preddi

01-16-2011, 03:11 AM

Hello,

i'm checking mbs spoilers but no rebel so far :(

@yellow_siomai:

I think that cards like rule of law are too slow against most decks. Windborn muse looks useful against goblins or merfolk, but i think that ghostly prison is way better against those decks, cuz it's faster and more resilent against spot removal. If you play Enlightened Tutor in SB or MB you can search it if needed. If you splash blue i would recommend Propaganda to raise the blue count for FoW.

The deck feels stronger with blue to me, the only thing i'm concerned about is that FoW feels a little bit weak to me, because you have not that many pitch cards. If you play no FoW you should at least splash it for Training Grounds. There is no reason not to do it. Just one blue mana for this card is way too easy to get and you need not much white mana for your other cards.
I tried a white black list on a tournament and i was not convinced by it. But most decks i play have counters and FoW so maybe i just feel screwed without them :)

I like playing counters and i think they are good in this deck, but what i like the most of the rebel decks is that you can play almost anything that you want. You want to play mono white? Than just do it! You could even splash green for mana acceleration and cards like Seedborn Muse. As i mentioned before you can splash black for Discard and Vindicate or Snuff Out.

Alexeezay

01-16-2011, 09:34 AM

I played Counterbalance-Top Rebels yesterday in a 40 people tournament and finished 4-2. My losses were mostly due to playing mistakes...

I won against 3 Merfolk decks :D I realized that merfolk is a rather good matchup :) Swords to Plowshares is not necessary in rebels,too. I prefer playing more counters or utility. Even Lord of Atlantis makes your Rebels unblockable & strong thanks to Mirror Entity :)

I won against Reanimator without drawing sideboard cards :)

Nidd

01-16-2011, 09:43 AM

yellow_siomai

01-16-2011, 11:03 AM

(nameless one)

01-16-2011, 11:08 PM

Alexeezay

01-17-2011, 10:12 AM

@ (nameless one)
Here is my list. I forgot mostly what happened during the tournament matches as I didn't write down anything.
I lost to Aggro Loam w/ Punishing Fire thanks to wishable Firespout.
Goblins gave me a hard time with double Siege-Gang Commander. I could have won the match against Goblins because I played miserable.
Still have to get much better at magic as I played only casual 1 year ago.

1x Arid Mesa
2x Scalding Tarn
4x Flooded Strand
2x Tundra
5x Island
5x Plains
1x Gaea's Cradle

4x Training Grounds
3x Counterbalance
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Brainstorm
4x Force Of Will
2x Daze
3x Spell Snare
1x Bound In Silence

4x Ramosian Sergeant
1x Children Of Korlis
1x Whipcorder
3x Defiant Falcon
1x Ramosian Lieutnant
1x Amrou Scout
1x Defiant Vanguard
2x Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
2x Mirror Entity

Sideboard:
1x Aven Riftwatcher
1x Big Game Hunter
1x Dunerider Outlaw
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Pithing Needle
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Relic Of Progenitus
1x Absolute Law
1x Aura Of Silence
1x Serenity
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Spell Snare
2x Blue Elemental Blast
>
Note: I should have played 3 Tundra actually & 1 Knight Of the Holy Nimbus instead of Whipcorder or Children Of Korlis maindeck. The thing was I built the deck(-list) a few minutes before the tournament so I couldn't find Tundra & Knight in time.

Although I'm not happy about the spells (2 Daze,3 Spell Pierce, no STP & 1 Spell Snare in sb), it worked well in practice.

I'll probably go sb: -1 Aven Riftwatcher -1 Serenity, +1 Spell Snare/Blue Elemental Blast +1 Big Game Hunter
and mb: -1 Children Of Korlis -1 Spell Pierce, +1 Knight of the Holy Nimbus +1 Daze
-1 Plains, +1 Tundra

about Cradle: 2-3 Gaea's Cradle without CBTop, 1 with CB because of mana costs.

preddi

01-17-2011, 10:37 AM

Alexeezay

01-17-2011, 12:10 PM

It was Spell Pierce Main & random Spell Snare in Sideboard.I just put it in randomly because it's good against Merfolk and Pridemage/Stonemystic/Goyf-stuff where Spell Pierce is bad.

Actually it always depends on what's your hand/draw.I would drop Counterbalance & Top as soon as you can unless you got Ramosian Sergeant/Training Grounds because it combos very fast.If your hand is like Cb,Top,Grounds,2cmc/3cmc Recruiter,balance,2 lands I would go 1st turn Top second balance to protect your upcoming combo stuff.If your opponent plays Daze maybe 2nd turn grounds and mana for Top open. etc....
The great thing about recruiting with Counterbalance is that you can use their effect like a fetchland.without Top, Counterbalance is still very good in this deck thanks to brainstorm/recruiters.

Defiant Vanguard is a surprise factor against Pithing Needle & aggro decks/big guys.Also it's good to reveal via CBTop to counter our worst nightmares called E.Plague/P.Deed/Firespout & K.grip. Better than Aven riftwatcher bcuz he isn't a recruiter

the cool thing about this deck is that your opponents aren't really prepared for your crazy stuff. When I played against Goblins I had 2 Recruiters out. He played Needle naming Lin Sivvi & wanted to burn the other but I just fetched up Mirror Entity & Whipcorder or something in response. Of course all in the right order :D

Hanni

01-17-2011, 01:59 PM

My newest list:

Rebels!

// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [A] Tundra
3 [UNH] Island
3 [UNH] Plains
3 [US] Gaea's Cradle

// Creatures
4 [MM] Ramosian Sergeant
4 [NE] Defiant Falcon
4 [MM] Ramosian Lieutenant
1 [NE] Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 [LRW] Mirror Entity
1 [PLC] Big Game Hunter

// Spells
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [ROE] Training Grounds
4 [MR] Chrome Mox

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSP] Children of Korlis
SB: 4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 4 [US] Disenchant
SB: 3 [SOM] Turn Aside
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle

Whipcorder has been pretty awful in testing, since he doesn't do anything the turn you put him into play. Big Game Hunter answers whatever problem is on the board immediately, and is a body on the board (for the combo). I usually only need to use him when I get a slow start (against standard aggro and aggro/control), and of course, against Emrakul.

I cut down to 3 Cradle's because, although they accelerate the combo, they are slow at starting the combo, and I got tired of getting clogged with them early. I decided to put 4 Chrome Mox into the deck, because the extra acceleration in the beginning of the game is amazing, and I almost always have excess cards in hand to pitch (like extra Rebels). Turn 1 land, Mox, Falcon; turn 2 land, Training Grounds, recruit is awesome. Turn 1 land, Mox, Sergeant (with Pierce mana up), turn 2 land, recruit is also awesome.

I really like this list. It's very streamlined, and very polished. It has a great mix of protection and accel, and of course, combo pieces. 13 recruiters just feels right, and I the only toolbox I ever feel like I need is the single Big Game Hunter. The deck is very linear in what it wants to do: drop a recruiter, drop accel, put a few dooders into play, swing for lethal.

The deck has been testing really well. I am interested in seeing what you guys think.

EDIT: The sideboard is pretty bad right now, I'm not really sure what I should put in it.

Enemy Tabernacle's have been a pretty savage beating, and the only answer I can think of is Wasteland, which I'd hate to have to put in my sideboard to answer something so narrow. Maybe bring in Jace TMS for those matchups?

preddi

01-19-2011, 10:13 AM

Chrome Mox could be a nice addition to the deck. Altough i'm not sure if maybe Swords is a better card in most circumstances. Depends on meta though. I think 11 to 12 Recruiters are the optimum (i don't count Linn because she is too slow).

One of the main choices i'm facing right now is if i should play the cb/top package or not. I think no one would say that playing these cards is a bad choice because cb/top can never be a bad in legacy. I'm just not sure if it is needed in this deck and that's what i'm trying to find out atm.

For the sideboard. I played a Enlightened Tutor Toolbox that looked much like the UW-Tempo Sideboards. If you do this you have a potential answer Tabernacle i.e. Spreading Seas. There may be better answers though.

How did your Mirror Entity count go in testing? Is one enough? I just lost one game to swords in me entire testing (i play only 1 ME). And of course i may lost few games becaurse i had ME on my hand instead of my library which seems to be more threatening than the potential exile.

Indykid Vago

01-21-2011, 03:17 PM

I've had a rough couple matches against Goblins (the black builds) . It feels like rebels is about a turn slower than them . Maybe it's just my opinion or I am missing something but it would be much appreciated if anyone would give me a few pointers on SBing this matchup .

I've started testing 3 Perimiter Captain in my SB , I'll post back if it tests helpful .

I'm using hanni's list -1 Lieutenant -4 chrome , +1 children of korlis +4 plow .

Alexeezay

01-21-2011, 04:04 PM

Just board Absolute Law(E.tutot) & Red Elemental Blasts against them. :)

preddi

01-21-2011, 05:08 PM

I like E.Tutor with Propaganda and Worship alot

Indykid Vago

01-22-2011, 06:10 AM

This is the list I am testing .

Link to downloadable file (http://deckstats.net/deck-476566-f6b115dd38981aa970a81ad960adc6c8-en.html)

// Lands 19
5 [B] Plains (1)
2 [B] Island (2)
3 [R] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
2 [US] Gaea's Cradle

// Creatures 18
4 [MM] Ramosian Sergeant
3 [NE] Defiant Falcon
2 [MM] Ramosian Lieutenant
1 [TSP] Amrou Scout
2 [NE] Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 [TSP] Children of Korlis
1 [TSP] Knight of the Holy Nimbus
1 [TSB] Defiant Vanguard
1 [PLC] Big Game Hunter
2 [LRW] Mirror Entity

// Spells 23
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
4 [ROE] Training Grounds
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 [US] Absolute Law
SB: 1 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 1 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [WL] Serenity
SB: 1 [WL] Aura of Silence
SB: 3 [TO] Llawan, Cephalid Empress
SB: 1 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [IA] Hydroblast

I dropped 2 lands and went down to 18 blue cards so I could pack 4 STP in the main . I personally like the 2nd Lin Sivvi in the deck but she could easily just be another 2cc Rebel searcher .

I like Numbus over Whipcorder , Nimbus does something the turn I search for it while Whipcorder stops flyers and other evasive creatures . I suppose that is a complete meta call .

I play Childrens of Korlis MD because I feel that 11 searchers (13 counting Sivvi) is enough . As for the slot I debate between Korlis and Whipcorder (again) . I feel that Korlis is better against ANT , Goblins , Zoo and Burn while Whipcorder is better against Countertop and Show and Tell .

As for my SB , I haven't seen dredge locally in a long time ( yay ! ) so I play a Jitte , a Back to Basics and a 3rd Llawan in the spot . The 3rd Llawan may not be necessary but I expect to see Merfolk a lot . Back to Basics is awesome , since we don't run Wastelands they usually fetch duals first G2 . The Jitte and the 3rd Llawan would be a Tormod's Crypt and a Wheel of Sun and Moon if I was at a large event or expected to see Dredge .

I'm actually contemplating taking Rebels to the SCG Indy , so any advice , sb recommendations , manabase tweaks , or general deck bashing is very VERY much appreciated .

If I chicken out on running Rebels I could always just run Merfolk :|

preddi

01-22-2011, 12:57 PM

Hey,

this list looks solid to me. I'm wondering how the 19 Lands are working? It feels more safe to play between 20 and 22 at least to me.
I think you could drop Defiant Vanguard but if you like him you should stay with him. I like Swords to Plowshared alot. Dunno if you need a full playset though (I use 3 atm) but no big deal.

I agree that Goblins is a little faster but it has some weakpoints.It relies more on the cards from the library, which is obviously sometimes bad.
With a swords or Fow you can turn the tides. They get punished really hard if they attack at the wrong time and this is good against most players because they don't know your deck very well.

I'm still hoping that there are 1 or 2 rebels on MBS but there is nothing so far :(.

Indykid Vago

01-22-2011, 03:52 PM

I've only played a few matches vs Goblins so far , but all the games were lost to them being faster because of Warchief . Playing against 4 Wastelands and 3 Rishadan Ports I still wasn't mana screwed . I'm still testing the new lighter manabase but my initial games suggest that 3 mana on the table + a Training Grounds feels like enough . Of course , I haven't tested against Waste + Daze + Stifle yet . That may prove to be a problem .

*EDIT*

I just finished a match against Counterbalance Progenitus . The opponent was using a much more defensive list , and he had Wall of Roots in the MD . I landed a searcher using Daze before he got CB/Top online and just forced my way through with Entity .

SB -4 Plow , +2 ETutor , +1 Serenity +1 Aura

G2 I saw him play a turn 2 Needle on Entity , I Pierced and he Forced back . I untapped and resolved Falcon and a was able to push flyers in from there . I didn't draw any SB cards or Tutors .

Also , holy crap is this deck fun to play !

preddi

01-23-2011, 09:10 AM

Hey,
i agree with the fun part :) ...
With TG in play mana is not an issue that's for sure. But how are you doing without it?
Against Goblins i usually try to safe STP for Chieftain or Warchief, Counter can do the same.
Of course sometimes it isn't enough and you lose.

Indykid Vago

01-23-2011, 03:53 PM

vs Goblins it seems like the kep cards to stop are Vial and Warchief . Seems like if either of those resolve and I don't have TG in play Rebels is doomed . It also seems like Goblins has a lot more common nut draws than this deck . That said , when I do manage to resolve an early Training Grounds AND a untap with a searcher in play Goblins tends to roll over . It usually means protecting the rebel for a turn , so I'm starting to feel this match up is slightly unfavorable .

Post board Absolute Law helps oodles , and BEB and Hydro rock balls .

Does anyone think that the Llawans in my SB are needed ? I am expecting to face CB/Ttop , Goblins , Merfolk and Junk .

preddi

01-23-2011, 04:26 PM

I use 2 Llawan and they won me some games. You could run Meekstone. It wrecks merfolk totally. So you can replace three Llawan for 1 Meekstone and additional cards like BEB or whatever you want.
I agree that Vial is the biggest problem (with merfolk aswell). I usually counter it if i can but it resolves a lot. You could add needle to the SB.
I think Rebels is favored against most CBTop decks. The other matchups are about even, maybe a little bit favored against merfolk but unfavored.
Whenever i'm testing at MWS i win against merfolk alot but in tournaments they get draws from hell and i get wrecked :/.

There's nothing you can do about it :p

*edit: @ Hanni: I'm currently testing the Chrome Mox. They work out fine and i consider playing them in this deck. I'm testing a little more but they are fun :)

Alexeezay

01-23-2011, 04:35 PM

actually you don't need meekstone or llawan as you usually should win against decks like Merfolk..
Zoo is the worst matchup I guess so the Meekstone could be good here maybe? On top of that I run Sideboard Absolute Law(with 2 E.tutors), 2 BEBs & 1 Thermal Glider(prored rebel) against Zoo,Burn,Sligh,Goblins and Punishing Fire Loam because they're a pain.

Indykid Vago

01-23-2011, 05:19 PM

RE : Meekstone , if you are SBing Meekstone (which I found a bit underwhelming) you may want to run a Whipcorder in your list to keep the board tapped . That said , Meekstone was solid vs Rock (backed by Whipcorder) .

@Alexeezay : Zoo is a HORRIBLE matchup , and the only way I even feel close to 45% against it is to SB 3 Perimiter Captain . Unfortunately , Captain hasn't tested all that well vs Goblins (surprisingly ) , which I am starting to feel is probably our 2nd worst match out of the top decks right now .

preddi

01-27-2011, 12:40 PM

Looks like there are no rebel cards in MBS, too sad. Is there anything else we could use? I don't think so :(

Alexeezay

01-28-2011, 07:12 AM

here is my recent lucky 8th place finish at our local tournament.
The decklist doesn't have that many changes, I got a Thermal Glider in SB now against Goblins/Zoo:
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5535&iddeck=40079

k2thej

01-28-2011, 02:22 PM

Is training grounds stricly better than Thran Turbine ? I'm not sure but I just thought I would throw it out there. Seems like it has a shot at being helpful in the same way training grounds is, but I'd be interested to hear thoughts on the matter.

perm

01-28-2011, 02:25 PM

It's obviously not strictly better, but it is functionally better in everything but corner cases.

k2thej

01-28-2011, 03:07 PM

It's obviously not strictly better, but it is functionally better in everything but corner cases.

This might be crazy...but what about running both? You could get a mean mirror entity out pretty quickly as well as search up a buttload of dudes. Might be worth testing.

It could take the place of chrome mox. This way, you get the mana advantage for activating the abilities you need to, and you don't lose the card advantage you do with mox.

preddi

01-28-2011, 04:41 PM

Well if you compare Training Grounds to turbine, TG is clearly better. It enables a possible 2nd turn recruit, it helps multiple recruits and it is blue, which is good if you run FoW. Another reason is that you don't have to activate rebels during your turn, which allows you to respond in your opponents turn.
So i would never change TG with turbine. Maybe if you run no blue.

You can try running both though. Chrome Mox has some advantages too: It also features a possible 2nd turn recruit. It allows you to play both a recruit with blue mana open for pierce and you can play a 2cmc rebel in the first turn. Dunno if turbine is helpful here. I might test it on MWS, but i'm not convinced by it in general.

Another thing i like to point out is that card disadvantage is not a problem if you enable your recruiters. You get a huge card advantage out of your library. I usually play nothing out of my hand except counters and maybe Swords if i can recruit. This is the reason why cards like FoW and maybe Reverent Mantra work so well in general.

Card disadvantage is a loss if your rebel gets burned or something like that, but i think forcing the early recruit at the cost of some cards is the best way to play this deck, at least from my experience.

Just my 2 cents

Indykid Vago

01-30-2011, 05:21 AM

Does anyone know of any SB cards or MD cards that would make the Zoo match not so horrible . It feels like Rebels vs Zoo is around 75% in their favor . I can't really seem to keep Worship or Absolute Law on the table since they run Pridemage .

My current sideboard .

//Sideboard:
1 Spell Pierce
1 Children of Korlis
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Meekstone
1 Absolute Law
1 Worship
1 Null Rod
1 Serenity
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Hydroblast

Alexeezay

01-30-2011, 05:38 AM

well if u play CBTop & Swords to Plowshares, your answers should be okay compared to 3-4 opposing Quasali Pridemages. Sure they can get the nuts draw & board in krosan grip on top of that. all their cards are good against us except Tarmogoyf(his beats do not have much impact).
we just have to pray against zoo :D

preddi

02-02-2011, 05:20 PM

Yeah Zoo is the most hardest matchup i faced so far. The problem i have is that they burn every recruit while bashing with nacatl. But You should win if you manage to recruit once and your life is not too low. I think CBTop is the best Version of the Rebels to face them. CB with a 1CMC on top protects almost against every removal the usually play. But the chances are slim i agree.
I guess the rock could be a hard matchup aswell.

Indykid Vago

02-07-2011, 01:11 AM

I placed 24th out of 269 Players at the SCG Indy Legacy Open .

Report after I sleep , it's been a really really long day .

Final record was 6-2-1 , with the two losses from Bant Aggro in the 3rd Rd , and from Zoo (surprise surprise . . . ) in the 4th round .

(nameless one)

02-07-2011, 05:37 AM

preddi

02-07-2011, 04:11 PM

Wohoo looking forward to your report :)

Indykid Vago

02-07-2011, 05:26 PM

First off I want to shout out to preddi , Alexeezay , Hanni and nameless for all the help developing and tuning this list . All of your insights were very much appreciated and I could not have possibly done this well without all of your input .

Secondly I never ever wake up early , so getting up at 7:20 am to get to the Convention Center was a bit hard for me , especially considering I was working off of 3 hours of sleep .

I crashed over at Jay's house , one of my Team Epic members and I had to borrow a few cards from the team to complete my deck . Nothing too expensive , just some Sb cards and I'll go into all that later .

Awake at 7:20 and off to McDonalds for breakfast before finally arriving at the tourney site . The rest of the Team met up at the event and we were all pretty happy with my list .

This is the list that I registered.

Link to file (http://deckstats.net/deck-500522-e630d64f4f52fdb754f3a2ccec4d369f-en.html)

//Lands - 19
5 Plains
2 Island
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
2 Gaea's Cradle

//Creatures - 18
4 Ramosian Sergeant
3 Defiant Falcon
3 Ramosian Lieutenant
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 Aven Riftwatcher
1 Whipcorder
1 Defiant Vanguard
1 Big Game Hunter
2 Mirror Entity

//Spells - 23
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Training Grounds
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Spell Pierce

//Sideboard: - 15
1 Children of Korlis
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Meekstone
1 Absolute Law
1 Worship
1 Null Rod
1 Serenity
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Hydroblast
1 Spell Pierce

In my own testing I knew that the only swarm deck that I really needed the Propaganda/Ghostly Prison against was Zoo , and it never really helped against Zoo anyway so I gave up trying to deal with that deck and just moved on . The Null Rod was a suggestion from fellow Team Epic Player Jason Houston (he finished 13th at SCG St Louis with Rbg Goblins) and now looking back on that it was my MVP SB card of the day . I scouted 0 (ZERO) Tendril players so I dropped the Ethersworn Canonist from the SB and replaced it with a Worship at the suggestion of preddi . I dropped the Llawan, Cephalid Empress to run Meekstone in the SB (which incidentally does wonders against a few other decks) and moved Whipcorder back into the main to help that Meekstone . I also scouted a more then a few Dredge players before registration so I kept that stuff in . I kept the Children of Korlis in the SB because I didn't want to get blown out by Burn and there was a chance I'd have to play against that .

No jitters , no shakey hands . I'm totally in a positive mood and ready for a nice experience . I tell Jason and Tim from my team that I am expecting to put up a really good fight .

No one expects me to do well :cool:

Round 1 vs Mark Spano playing New Horizons .

He is a really friendly fellow , and I can see that he has been to a few tourneys . He comments to me that he has been playing for years and tells me he remembers busting Duals out of packs "back in the day" .

Game one I resolve a turn one Sergeant (which he had to read) and I never cast another spell besides countering his attempts to remove that from play . Eventually I untap with 3 mana and just go nuts from there . My opponent showed me 2 Dazes that never did anything since everyone and their mom plays around Daze now).

The player to the right of me just looked at my board in amazement and I could tell that everyone who could see this match was getting sentimental from the days when Lin Sivvi ruled Block and T2 .

I brought in the extra Pierce , Meekstone and 1 ETutor .

Game two he drops a mana dork and I drop a protected 3rd turn Lieutenant . Small counter war ensues where I get the last spell and in a few turns I am once again beating with a Mirror Entity army backed my a Cradle . I see Dredge to my right and the player says , "Man , you just stomped him!"

Games 2-0-0 , Matches 1-0-0

:wink: I smile and wait for the 2nd round .

Round 2 vs Chris Benzinger playing 2 Land Belcher

Ok I'll admit , I love Belcher to death and I am very VERY familiar with both the list and all possible SB cards . He is on the draw and I had no Idea what he was playing . I mull away a 1 land hand with double Force and 2 Blue cards but with only I plains as the land My second hand is no blue cards 4 lands 2 searchers so I keep. I open with Plains into Sargent , he opens Chrome Mox imprinting Manamorphose and I lay my land down and he resolves 14 Goblin Tokens . I scoop immediatly rather then show him I am running blue and immediately act like I am SBing in 8 cards . He does not SB , putting me on Mono White Scrubs .

SB + 1 Spell Pierce 2 ETutor 1 Null Rod

Game 2 , I play a white fetch and pass the turn and he once again tries to go nuts , I break the Arid for a Tundra and Pierce his 2nd acceleration spell . He sits back utterly amazed that I am running blue . I start ramping up and I know I am in trouble since I don't draw any additional countermagic . He plays two LED and casts Burning Wish for Empty WITHOUT BREAKING THE LEDS IN RESPONSE . I tell him to discard the Empty . His life goes 18 , 17 , 14 , 2 , gg .

Game 3 I mull once into a Force and he opens with a first turn Swarm . Crap . He swings and passes the turn , YAY . He kept a hand with swarm hoping to draw into a win Condition . I cast Null Rod on the 2nd turn and the game goes LONG . Eventually he blows my blows my null rod away but doesnt have a way to win yet . His life goes 19 , 18 , 17 , 2 , gg .

Games 4-1-0 , Matches 2-0-0

Round 3 vs Jason Payne playing Bant Aggro

Game 1 I have to mulligan twice for lack of land , so I keep a 5 card grip with 1 Land and a Brainstorm . He completely rolls me over game one and we go off to game 2 .

SB : same as round 1

Game 2 I keep a hand with one counter and one searcher . On the 2nd turn he casts Stoneforged Mystic and wins the counter war . A Turn later I am facing an active Jitte and he plows my Whipcorder . My life drops slowly over a long game but I didn't SB in the Children of Korlis so without that Whipcorder I am dead to Jitte .

He comments that my deck is completely amazing , and he would like to play against me more without me hitting bad mana hands :smile:

Games 4-3-0 , Matches 2-1-0

Round 4 vs Stan Smith playing Zoo (Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo . . . )

Game 1 He is on the play and started with Fetch into Taiga , Nacatl . Crap . I'm sure you all know this but jus tin case Zoo is the absolute worst match up in the entire gauntlet . Zoo does what it does , cast early threats and keeps my rebels off the board with removal . I fight the good fight but in the end his removal is just too much .

I sb in the Turors , the Absolute Law , the Meekstone , the blasts and the Worship .

Game 2 - He uses his Pridemage on my early Training Grounds and I immediately follow with a searcher and a Cradle . I play defensively , using Mirror Entity to protect from burn removal while swinging slowly in the air . I pull this game out and we're off to game 3 .

Game 3 - This was much like game 1 . Again , no amount of SBing or anything seems to help this matchup so I'm not surprised he beats me .

Games 5-5-0 , Matches 2-2-0

[sigh] I tell my team mates that if I get a 3rd match loss I am going to play either Dromar or Darigazz in the EDH mini tourneys . . .

Round 5 vs Mike Antrim playing GW Aggro with hate bears .

Game 1 I mull once again but keep a very solid 6 with a Grounds , 2 searchers and a Brainstorm . I just do what rebels does , holding the brainstorm in order to protect the Rebel . His life goes 19 , 18 , 19 , 0 . WHOO HOO ENTITY IS THE BOMB .

My opponent tells me just how awesome it is that I am running Counterrebels and that he doesn't mind losing to me at all :smile:

SB + Etutors and Worship .

Game 2 He resolves a first turn Vial and Vials in two Mystics . Eventually I am staring at a Serra Avenger with both SoLaS AND Jitte equipped and protected my double Mother of Runes . This was a very very long game 2 and we head into the 3rd game with under 10 min's to play .

Game 3 I countered his early Vial via Force , but I had to pitch my only other blue card (Training Gounds) and that hurt me . I rip a cradle off the top and but he was able to resolve a Mystic for Jitte . I play aggressively and push him down to 8 life while using Whipcorder to stop his Equipment but eventually he lands Mother of Runes and this game goes into turns , finally ending in a draw .

Great opponent , great games and I don't think that I could have done anything else to win this one . Both of us are very happy with out play and if I ever see this guy again it's going to be with a smile on my face . Very very GGS .

Games 6-6-1 , Matches 2-2-1

A draw is NOT a 3rd loss , so I am still in this and will not quit until I hit that 3rd loss .

Round 6 vs Jeff Cosgrove playing Counterbalance Bant .

Game 1 I drop a protected 2nd turn Sargent and just protect the holy crap out of it . I've tested this match up many times and I know that in order to beat Counterbalace I just need to keep something in play . His life goes 18 , 0 .

SB +Null Rod , Serenity and Etutors .

Game 2 He plows/paths the first 3 rebels I cast , but I drop a 4th and start protecting that one . I had a pretty solid hand with multiple rebels and only 1 protective counter so I just play them one by one and run through his removal . I resolve Training Grounds and its pretty quick from there on .

Neighboring players are by now noticing that a Rebel deck is in the field and that it does no suck completely . I have quite a few other players giving me high praises for even playing this deck in such a huge field . Everyone is totally happy to give me pats on the back and I hear the word "Cool" and "Sweet" over and over lol .

Games 8-6-1 , Matches 3-2-1

Round 7 vs Jeremy Banks playing Junk

Game 1 I mull into a very questionable hand with 3 land and turn 2 searchers and Grounds . I play Grounds and my th eplayer to my right yells , "YOU'RE THAT GUY!!!" . Mad lols . Opponent opens with a 2nd turn 2 Hymn , hitting my 2 lands . I am complete blown out and we move to game 2 .

SB : + Tutors , Meekstone and Serenity (expecting E Plague)

Game 2 We both start the game resolving early threats and I am able to land a Rebel and untap with it . I cast Training Grounds and he can't keep them off the table from there . I counter a Deed to seal this game . His life was high until I searched for Entity protected by Force + Pierce . His life goes 18 , 20 (plow Confidant) , 18 , 7 , gg .

Game 3 I am on the draw but I have a very good hand with multiple counters but no searchers . He starts discarding me but I rip a Sargent off the top on the 2nd turn and stabilize with Pierces . He however starts beating my face with Goyf and I eat the attacks white searching for more rebels . I eventually stabilize and use BGH to rip Goyf to bits but I had to tap out to do it . He plows both my searchers immediately and the board is now all lands with me with a single BGH in play . Neither of us had any cards left in hand and he is at a healthy 23 life to my 9 . My next turn I rip Mirror Entity off the top and start swinging . His life drops 23 , 22 , 12 , 2 , gg .

The crowd goes wild .

Games 10-7-1 , Matches 4-2-1

Ok , I must say that by this point I am starting to feel the effects of the fatigue from the 3 hours of sleep . I grab a small bite to eat and freshen up a bit . I hope I can hold my play together in the next two rounds because I know that if I do I stand a damn good chance at finishing in the money (Top 32) .

Round 8 vs Shawn Dewey playing Uwr JaceStill

Game 1 - I am shuffling my opponents deck and accidentally flip a card over I immediatly look away but I knew it was a blue card. I look at my opponent with the most forlorn look I have ever had , knowing that I am about to get a game loss for this and I just put my head on the table . Judge comes and asks me if I did this before and I say , "Hell no man I am so sorry omg." He gives me a warning and I am already on super tilt from this . We start and I cast a 1st turn Sargent protecting it with a Force against his Daze . He drops a 4th turn MD Humility protected be his own Force of Will and I just stare in amazement . He resolves both big Jace and Espeth and I scoop , immediately going to game 2 to save time .

SB : I pull out the Plows and the single BGH for Tutors , Null Rod , Serenity and 4th Pierce .

Game 2 I start very strong here , with fast rebels and both Cradle and Training Grounds . On the turn where I am going to search for Entity to end this he casts Peacekeeper . [edited text of complete profanity here]?! I pulled out the 4 Plows in order to bring in my hate and I now really regret this .

I am a very stubborn player having played Chess for YEARS, and I refuse to concede unless it presents me with an advantage . There is no advantage in scooping in game 2 when I lost game 1 so I am here to play for a draw . I settle down and formulate my plan . I know he probably runs Wrath and I am going to sit here and try and stop his win conditions from entering play . I start pulling every single rebel out of my deck , and every land out of my deck , so each draw starts showing blue so I can sculpt a hand of nothing but blue cards to prepare for a huge counter war . He goes for a mid game Jace , and I win that war due to the fact I have been holding a Brainstorm in preparation for this battle . I drop Null Rod on the next turn , blanking his next play of Explosives , as well as his Top . He casts Firespout so I activate Entity for 4 . Turns upon turn of draw go start happening , I use Lin Sivvi to recycle the Aven Riftwatcher and my life climbs over this time to an astounding 47 life . He casts Wrath with about 10 cards left in his deck and I respond by activating Lin Sivvi for 0 , tapping Cradle , activating Lin Sivvi's 2nd ability once for each creature I have in play , then activating Mirror Entity for 0 without passing priority .

The crowd goes wild .

I shuffle every single rebel I had in play back into my deck , and his Wrath resolves on a completely empty board . I top deck a Sargent on the next turn and within 3 turns I am back to all rebels in play again . Then he casts Humility . I really look at the table , at his cards left and at my deck . I have one more card then him in my library due to the fact I have been discarding and putting my 2nd Lin Sivvi on the bottom of my deck in the turns between recycling the Aven Riftwatcher for life . I allow Humility to resolve , knowing he can't drop my life down to 0 in 5 turns . He resolves both Big Jace and Espeth a turn later . The game ends with him not being able to draw a card with 31 seconds left on the game clock .

I decked him .

The crowd goes WILD .

I offer him the draw , a habit I suppose I have from my years of playing the Reti Opening in chess . He asks me for a concession , stating that a draw helps neither of us . I immediately reply , "Hell no man , I am running rebels ! Do you have any idea how awesome this report is going to be ?!" . A judge comes over and asks us what is happening . We ask him the rules on finishing the 2nd game but not having time for a 3rd game and he say that we will draw unless a player concedes .

He asks me to concede again and I say no . I once again offer the draw and reach my hand out to a very long game . He does not shake my hand , doesn't looks me in the eyes . He is pretty mad since he knows that without a clock he could probably beat me in that 3rd game . Surprisingly he signs the slip instead of shaking my hand 2-1 in favor of me .

I don't know why he did this and it came as quite a shock to me . In chess I never ever do this . I'll play for a draw if it is my only option since a draw is half a point in chess . My Team explains that this happens all the time , where one player concedes to give another player a chance at money .

It left a bitter taste in my mouth , but I took the win with a gain of salt .

Sometimes , when you can't win . You can still play for that draw and not lose . And sometimes , when you don't lose , you win anyways .

Standings are posted and I am in 34th Place with 16 points now . One more win and I earn some money .

Games 11-8-1 , Matches 5-2-1

Round 9 vs Ryan Carstens playing Bug Thresh

Game 1 spot the table and recognized him immediately , but neither of us know for sure what each other are playing . I say as I see him , "Well hello there fellow Junk Player!!!" and take my seat . He asks me what I am playing again and I say , "Well if you didn't catch what I said when I sat down then I am not telling you again!" I smile and after long thought he keeps his opening 7 . I also keep with a very very good grip . He opens with Thoughtsieze which I allow to resolve since my hand is all duplicates and he yells , "YOU ARE THAT GUY!!!" :cool: I respond, "WHAT?! There is another Rebel PLayer here?! OMG WHO?" Mad Lols ensue and we get on with out match . I resolve a rebel , and a training grounds . He empties me hand but his spot removal can't keep the Ramosian Army off the table forever and I swing bringing his life from 19 to 0 .

SB +Serenity , anticipating 4 Plague or something crazy like that .

Game 2 This game goes long , and quite a few people are surrounding the table since well , Training Grounds is quite uncommon and everyone loves Lin Sivvi . There are multiple wars of attrition , lots of countermagic and tons of discard . Eventually I am able to resolve and untap with a Defiant Falcon . His shoulders slump and I know he is in trouble . I protect the rebel which watching his reactions while he draws his cards . He doesn't draw anything usefull . he manages to rip something ogg the tip and immediately casts Extirpate on my only rebel in the yard (GO LIN SIVVI!!!) targeting a Ramosian Sargent . I hand him my deck and smile , 0 Entity in the deck , both in hand , backed by double Force and double Spell Pierce . I start swinging with Flying rebels and Defiant falcon gets in for the past point of damage . GG .

Once again , the crowd goes wild :laugh:

Final Record : Games 13-8-1 , Matches 6-2-1

I finish in 24th place , and earn some cash . It's enough to cover the cost of entry and the food I ate on site . More importantly I just played Counterrebels to a top 32 finish in a field of 269 players!!!

I didn't face Goblins or Merfork so in that sense I had really good pairings . I am very happy with how the deck performed but I know that my list absolutely needs one more land in there . All the mulls were due to 1 land hands .

All in all I've worked on rebels for years and it's my favorite pet deck to play .

Is it a contender ? No not really . Is it tricky to play against . HECK YES .

Props : Team Epic , Lin Sivvi and everyone who said anything positive to me during the 9 rounds of play . I can't even begin to shout all the names out to everyone who patted me on the back !!! Also , every single round my opponents read my cards . That alone makes me smile . Final shout out to Moose for his invaluable help and advice between rounds .

Slops : I didn't use any of the graveyard hate and the food/drink on site was stupid expensive .

Ramosia STILL STANDS!!!

YOU!!! SHALL!!! NOT!!! PASS!!!

preddi

02-07-2011, 06:47 PM

(nameless one)

02-07-2011, 07:00 PM

Congrats on the win. All I can say is that I wish there were some recordings of this. Rebels getting you some cash on a big tournament is awesome!

Indykid Vago

02-07-2011, 07:05 PM

Very nice report, and gratz for the good finish.

Looks like you had some fun and the people around you too. Your opponents probably not that much but that's okay ;).

I have some questions. After playing this list, how happy are you with the creature base? More exactly, how happy are you with Vanguard, Aven Riftwatcher and Whipcorder? Were they that useful that you would run them again instead of maybe more recruiters, lands or one more spell pierce?
Another thing i wanted to know is about your trick with Lin's second ability and Mirror Entity for 0 in response. Is it allowed to use Lin's second ability even if there is no target in the graveyard at the time you use it? Or did i understand it wrong?

I think you were right to discard the zoo matchup in your SB. I mean this matchup is just awful but here in germany zoo is changing to run little less removal for more and bigger creatures with elspeth (I think the Big Zoo lists are using it too?). This lists are a little bit better to play against.
I was a bit surprised that you lost to bant. I think this is a good matchup in general, but seems like had bad luck.

Thanks for your report, so long.

preddi

Thanks preddi ! believe me when i say your advice was awesome !

re: Aven , Whip and Vanguard . It felt like the deck had enough searchers , and Vanguard came in handy more than once because I wanted to hide Big Game Hunter from my opponent . The Whipcorder helped most in the 7th round when Meekstone tapped Goyfs down allowing me to stop his last remaining creature , a Stoneforged Mystic .Whipcorder also forced my opponents to play more creatures which in turn gave me mor einformation on what to BGH or Vanguard so Whipcorder has my stamp of approval . As for the Aven , I'm not sure but I used Aven as another flyer more then I used it for the Life Gain . Of course , the 2nd game win vs Jacestill wouldn't have been possible without Aven , as just discarding Lin Sivvi means I can't cast anything or I'll have to hold Sivvi in hand and deck myself .

Aven could go , but the fact that she is 2/3 and flies was an advantage all day . Strangly enough she is the largest rebel in my list , and also one of the best blockers I had . I chose to run all the defensive rebels , dropping Shapesharer and Dunerider Outlaw because they didn't really kill anything most of the time .

I'd probably drop the Aven for a 20th Land , probably another Tundra . Also right now a 4th Pierce is feeling stronger then the 4th Daze .

On the play with Entity and the 15 or so Sivvi activations . I can see your point , and at the time I didn't think about that (nor do I know that ruling) . I only knew what I needed to do to not lose so I did that . He didn't call the judge , and I have no idea what the ruling on that actually is . I think the play is correct , and I know for sure that without that play I wouldn't have had enough countermagic left for the Mid game Jace he tried to land .

But truthfully regurding the legality of that play I have no idea .

Congrats on the win. All I can say is that I wish there were some recordings of this. Rebels getting you some cash on a big tournament is awesome!

Thanks nameless , and also thanks for starting this thread :)

Man a feature match would have been awesome , but in order for that to have happened I would've had to have had a 4-0 or something starting record .

preddi

02-07-2011, 09:42 PM

On the play with Entity and the 15 or so Sivvi activations . I can see your point , and at the time I didn't think about that (nor do I know that ruling) . I only knew what I needed to do to not lose so I did that . He didn't call the judge , and I have no idea what the ruling on that actually is . I think the play is correct , and I know for sure that without that play I wouldn't have had enough countermagic left for the Mid game Jace he tried to land .

Dunno if we are talking about the same thing. Recruit for X=0 with Lin Sivvi works for sure, but i don't know if you can activate the second ability (from graveyard on the bottom of the library) with no cards in GY and than in response activate mirror entity for 0 so that the rebels go to the gy and the second ability resolves to put them all in the library again. At least i thought you meant it that way. Maybe ask a judge about that, would be a nice trick if it works that way. You could save important creatures from swords that way aswell.

I run 21 Lands atm 3 Daze 4 Pierce and 3 Swords, i'm still curious about the right numbers too.
About Peacekeeper: I often saw peacekeeper in various sideboards and i think you should leave two swords or so in the mb for that reason.

Indykid Vago

02-07-2011, 09:48 PM

Dunno if we are talking about the same thing. Recruit for X=0 with Lin Sivvi works for sure, but i don't know if you can activate the second ability (from graveyard on the bottom of the library) with no cards in GY and than in response activate mirror entity for 0 so that the rebels go to the gy and the second ability resolves to put them all in the library again. At least i thought you meant it that way. Maybe ask a judge about that, would be a nice trick if it works that way. You could save important creatures from swords that way aswell.

I run 21 Lands atm 3 Daze 4 Pierce and 3 Swords, i'm still curious about the right numbers too.
About Peacekeeper: I often saw peacekeeper in various sideboards and i think you should leave two swords or so in the mb for that reason.

Yeah , let me clarify . I do not know if it is legal to activate Lin Sivvi's 2nd ability without a rebel in my graveyard to target . I think there was no rebel to target at the time that I did this .

I will test a 20 land version sans Riftwatcher and a 4th Pierce over the 4th Daze .

Re: keeping 2 STP main . Yeah , I'm never going to make that mistake again .

Shawn

02-07-2011, 10:44 PM

Sorry if I came across as rude when you extended the handshake for the draw and I paused, then signed the sheet. I was determining whether I was going to scoop or not and shaking would have signaled I was ok with the draw. I can't remember if we shook after that, but I generally try shake my opponent's hand if they offer to. I was furious at myself for all the misplays I made game two, not you.

For some reason I Firespouted when you had Mirror Entity in play prior to me resolving Humility. Also if I had Jace ultimated myself after resolving Humilty, I put seven cards back in my library when you had one or two left in your deck. If I board sweep, it leaves my 33 power on the board because of the Elspeth emblem I attack for lethal a turn later, if I don't, you deck first.

Once again, sorry if I appeared angry or rude towards you. I'm glad you won your last round!

Indykid Vago

02-08-2011, 12:45 AM

Shawn , no problems man , i'm sure we were both fatigued from the other 7 roudns we played .

This was my 2nd large event . I'm much mor eused to chess events and playing for a draw is very common there .

I had no idea why you would sign the slip as a loss instead of a draw until my team explained it to me . A very VERY noble move on your part man .

:) ggs , and i look forward to the next event!

Alexeezay

02-09-2011, 11:01 AM

nice report and decklist, respect Indykid Vago :)
My CbTop-rebels list got blown out last time I played it, I will remove cbtop now & gonna continue with your list Vago ;)

TorpidNinja

02-09-2011, 11:52 AM

Yeah , let me clarify . I do not know if it is legal to activate Lin Sivvi's 2nd ability without a rebel in my graveyard to target . I think there was no rebel to target at the time that I did this .

It wasn't legal. You need legal targets when you're activating the ability. Your opponent should have called a judge.

K_Rot_T

02-09-2011, 07:59 PM

To clarify the whole legal play issue with Wrath and Searchers and so on.

First of all Lin-Sivvi: Her 2nd Ability says

{3}: Put target Rebel card from your graveyard on the bottom of your library.
With the word "target" in their it means you have to pick the target WHEN PLAYING THE ABILITY, so the cards you choose have to be in your yard. It is NOT possible to activate the ability for Rebel Cards which aren't in the graveyard the time you activate it.

So much for that.

BUT (if you had enough Mana) you could do the following thing:

You control Lin-Sivvi, Mirror Entity and some Rebels you want IN your Library. You have one more Lin-Sivvi in your library.
Stack: Wrath of God.
You activate Lin-Sivvi search for X=3.
Stack: Search, Wrath of God.
You activate Mirror Entity for X=0.
Stack: Entity, Search, Wrath.
You use Gaeas Cradle (don't forget if Entity resolves, you got no creatures).
You let Entity resolve->All your Creatures are 0/0 and are put into the graveyard as a State Bases Action.
Stack:Search, Wrath.
You let the Search with X=3 resolve and put a Lin-Sivvi from your library into play.
Stack: Wrath.
You activate the new Lin-Sivvis Graveyard Ability as much as your Mana let's you.
Stack: Put target Rebel Card under library, under library, under library,....., under library, Wrath.
Let all of those abilitys resolve and put your Rebel army back into the library.
Stack: Wrath.
Let Wrath resolve-> Lin Sivvi is put into graveyard.
Stack: empty.

You have now one Lin-Sivvi in your graveyard and depending on your Mana no other Rebels in the grave but all of them in your library.

One Question: Why the Lin-Sivvi search activation for X=0? Did you wanted to shuffle your library so your Rebels aren't all on the bottom of the library, is that it? No bad move, should remember that for the Counterbalance Version.

Indykid Vago

02-09-2011, 08:56 PM

Yup , I had about 9-11 cards left in my library and I wanted to draw a rebel searcher asap . The next draw was a ramosian .

preddi

02-21-2011, 02:55 AM

Hey guys,

i played my rebels on our weekly tournament last week (around 20 players). I went 3-1 into the 4th place. Was fun to play :).
Won against UWr ThopterTop, Dredge and Show and Sneak and lost very close to Loam (one game was due to mistake i made).

Decklist was:

4 Ramosian Lieutenant
4 Ramosian Sergeant
2 Defiant Falcon
1 Amrou Scout
1 Lin Sivvi, Defiant hero
1 Big Game Hunter
2 Mirror Entity
1 Knight of the holy Nimbus
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
3 Daze
4 Training Grounds
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Gaea's Cradle
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
5 Plains
3 Island

Sideboard:
3 Hydroblast
1 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 Children of Korlis
1 Aven Riftwatcher
1 Worship
1 Wheel of sun and moon
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Absolute Law
1 Bound in Silence
1 Aura of Silence
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Changeling hero

4 Pierce main worked wonders in the matches i played. Too sad i had no counters against loam so i lost twice against Dreams twice. I think the sideboard needs some work though.

Alexeezay

02-21-2011, 10:40 AM

solid list actually, but I think you would be better off with Bound In Silence maindeck instead of Big Game Hunter. Bound can get on every creature :)

I'm gonna test Reverent Mantra in the STP or Daze slots soon

claudio.r

02-21-2011, 07:36 PM

With the risk of sounding a little bit ignorant, i have to put some questions to you guys, since this deck looks like a good alternative to the tiring metagame we have here. And since i have most of the cards and always loved rebels, I would like to know more about the deck.

So, what do we look for when playing this deck, i mean, how does the "combo" work? I understand that we want to chain rebel activations, but i really don't understand how can we swarm in one turn, nor the tricks behind the deck. What's the gameplan, so to say.
Is Gaea's cradle real necessary or just a good card to help the gameplan?
And last but not least, how's the merfolk matchup ?

Sorry if these questions were already answered, i would really like to understand more about the deck, so i can decide if i start playing it or not.

Thx in advance,
Cláudio

Alexeezay

02-22-2011, 09:15 AM

the combo plan is getting Mirror Entity (mostly EOT) out and swing with 3-X Rebels for alot of damage thanks to Training Grounds & Gaea's Cradle making the Mirror Entity activation much cheaper.
The good thing about rebels is that they are very resilient, they replace themselves, recruit good surprising stuff, backed up by counters. The creatures get cheated into play like Aether Vial does, but rebels tutor any card you want.
You can get control of the battlefield pretty fast.

claudio.r

02-22-2011, 12:12 PM

Thanks for the explanation Alexeezay.
I'm going to give the deck a spin, since i own most of the stuff and i really like the concept. the only thing is that i don't currently own any gaea's cradle and don't intend to acquire it at his current price.

How's the merfolk matchup ?

(nameless one)

02-22-2011, 12:51 PM

Ive never really tested against Merfolk but I would imagine that we can take them by surprise via Mirror Entity (if they have a Lord of Atlantis online, our rebels also get the +1/+1 and islandwalk bonus under an activated Mirror Entity)

Indykid Vago

02-23-2011, 09:19 PM

@claudio.r : The vs Merfolk is actually quite even and it is VERY dependent on your opening 7 . I will admit that the builds running a black splash for Engineered Plague are a bit harder to beat . Their two biggest threats are AEther Vial and a resolved Lord of Atlantis (and the aforementioned EPlague) . Fortunately if you look at most of the rebel builds on here we all run multiple Ramosian Lieutenants to help combat this . As for fighting the Lord of Atlantis . Rebels can instantly turn the tide if we search for an EOT Mirror Entity and make all our Rebels into Changelings (granting everything we have +1/+1 and Islandwalk as mentioned by above) tho I will admit that in testing keeping Lord off the table is probably a better idea so we can set up good blocks + recruits .

Another thing about Merfolk is that it benefits you to actually run Childrens of Korlis MD to gain life . As Merfolk runs 0 removal maindeck and around 1-2 Umezawa's Jitte in the SB .

The Merfolk builds that are mono Blue are a bit better as some of those run Standstill . A card that is useless unless they can land it before we land one of our dozen + recruiters .

Lastly , if you are having problems with Merfolk I have found that packing the SB cards COP:Blue & Meekstone to be most awesome when you start playing games 2/3 .

Good luck with the deck , and let us know of your experiences with Counter-Rebels .

Collective knowledge is a good thing .

EDIT : Although there is great hilarity in the first time you use their own Lord of Atlantis to just kill them dead .

EDIT 2 : UBER GREAT HILARITY .

preddi

02-25-2011, 07:53 AM

This is not exactly Counterrebels but i found this list in a recent tournament. It made it into the top 8 in a 114 player tournament.

1 Children of Korlis
1 Defiant Falcon
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Mirror Entity
1 Ramosian Lieutenant
1 Whipcorder
2 Fauna Shaman
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Mother of Runes
3 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Ramosian Sergeant

2 Crop Rotation
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Aether Vial

1 Bojuka Bog
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Treetop Village
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Savannah
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

For the latest posts:
@Alexeezay : I think Bound in Silence and BGH are close. Both have some good situations where they shine. I picked BGH becaurse i think it helps the more scary matchups more than bound.

For the merfolk matchup i think it's slightly better than 50/50. Sure they can kill you really quickly if they draw nuts but if they don't it's pretty easy to kill them. It depends as mentioned by Vago on their list though. I tested alot against merfolk and i think the more control elements they use, the easier it is to beat them. If they put a LoA into play they should be finishing you with it or else you have a high chance of winning via mirror entity (especially with cradle).

Alexeezay

02-25-2011, 11:40 AM

ye you're right preddi, I just wanted to post something useless :D

I think Rebels in Maverick is interesting. It's got a suprise factor because of its many options & no one sees a Mirror Entity combo win coming out of Maverick :)

Indykid Vago

03-02-2011, 12:54 AM

Has anyone tried Meddling Mage in the SB as a 2-4 of ?

Alexeezay

03-02-2011, 12:07 PM

I think Ethersworn Canonist,Aura of Silence and Pithing Needle do the same job and are tutorable.
well you can't stop show and tell or Natural Order unfortunately :/ if you see this kind of decks in your meta I would try Meddling Mage.
I'm thinking about MMs myself as I got a playset laying around

1mpulse

03-31-2011, 12:55 AM

Round 5 vs Mike Antrim playing GW Aggro with hate bears .

Great opponent , great games and I don't think that I could have done anything else to win this one . Both of us are very happy with out play and if I ever see this guy again it's going to be with a smile on my face . Very very GGS .

Hey, thats me!

Had a great time reading your report, and glad you were able to win out like I did! It was a pleasure playing you! :)

preddi

04-03-2011, 04:54 PM

Hey,

i was playing my rebels again and i think the deck works relatively good so far, but i'm looking for a second win condition to fight pithing needle. Anyone a good idea to solve this problem?

(nameless one)

04-03-2011, 05:23 PM

Usually for those, I try to save my permission. That said, both Pithing Needle and Humility is really debilitating to the deck. Not to mention that Phyrexian Revokers are showing up everywhere.

The meta has slowed down again, and zoo is at it's all time low, I think this deck could stand a chance.

Speaking of meta slowing down, has anyone tried using Standstill again?

Indykid Vago

04-04-2011, 02:07 AM

Hey, thats me!

Had a great time reading your report, and glad you were able to win out like I did! It was a pleasure playing you! :)

^ uber ggs man . uber ggs .

Hey,

i was playing my rebels again and i think the deck works relatively good so far, but i'm looking for a second win condition to fight pithing needle. Anyone a good idea to solve this problem?

So far as vs decks that run 3-4 SB Pithing Needle , here is the thing .

If that first Pithing Needle is on your already resolved but nono active searcher than your plan is to draw or Brainstorm into another searcher (or Plow , if we are talking about their Revoker ) . If you see heavy Needles in the area it may be a good idea to run a single Amrou Scout in the main as an additional type of 2cc rebel searcher . Doing this will weaken your deck to E Plague .

If they drop an early Needle naming Mirror Entity you have to hold counters and stop any attempts to board wipe , while literally just pushing through with your Defiant Falcons while using Plowshares to keep the skies clear .

Or , you could just try to deck them while recurring Childrens of Korlis to prevent damage . Aven Riftwatcher also helps with both the aerial combat and the life gain while being 2/3 ) .

Usually for those, I try to save my permission. That said, both Pithing Needle and Humility is really debilitating to the deck. Not to mention that Phyrexian Revokers are showing up everywhere.

The meta has slowed down again, and zoo is at it's all time low, I think this deck could stand a chance.

Speaking of meta slowing down, has anyone tried using Standstill again?

Yeah man , the printing on Revoker has absolutely added another challenge we have to face , my best answer so far is running the Etutor Sb into Serenity ( which I will one day have altered to match the space ship from Firefly ) .

I've tested MD Standstills and have kind of come to the conclusion that it's only really good vs decks that do not run instant speed removal , decks we were not behind against to begin with , or decks that don't run AEther Vial . Granted my idea's on this are from the Survival era so it may be an out of date theory .

On another note , is anyone actually beating High Tide ? Seems like a worst match-up than Zoo was :|

preddi

04-04-2011, 07:17 AM

Dunno about high tide. It seems slightly slower than storm. I would imagine that if he combos with brain freeze you can tutor up Linn sivvi and put rebels back in the library. But if he goes for blue sun's zenith that won't do. This deck seems to do very well at the recent tournaments. Dunno what other decks can do to stop that (Spell pierce, daze and FoW seems the best possible permission package you could run).
The recent rise of Cephalid Breakfast is also a threat.

Maybe reconsider the sideboard options? High Tide has nice removal package in the sb for cunning wish. Maybe something like Last Word , but this seems not that great. Any other good suggestions?

Tree

04-04-2011, 05:32 PM

preddi

04-05-2011, 02:47 AM

Hey,

against aggro decks i suggest running
Swords to plowshares
Knight of the holy Nimbus
Children of Korlis
Big Game Hunter
Aven Riftwatcher.
If you have problems with the slots Aven Riftwatcher is the first i would cut. Children enables a Softlock against aggro decks and can suprise combo decks like storm and is also great against dredge. As mentioned above there seems to be a problem with the new Spiral Tide decks. I run 4 Spell pierce in my version, which has been great so far, but they are not that good against aggro decks.
In the sideboard i suggest 1 Bound in Silence.

Indykid Vago

04-06-2011, 04:12 AM

Hello all,

I read Indykid Vago report and was quite impressed with this deck.
I missed out playing Rebels back in the day and I am really interested in playing this deck for my local area.

My question is how to tweak the deck for a stirring meta game, as my area has just started to get into Legacy.
All I know is that people are going to be playing lots of combo and aggro decks, (no zoo)

Love the fact I can order all the cards I need foil on SCG: $20-$40

:D

I was planning on actually foiling out the creature base but a very good player told me that if all I had in my deck that was foil were all creatures then there would be a good chance that if I get deckchecked i'll get in trouble for cheating ? Long story short I chickened out on that idea after that .

Beating aggro is more of a way you need to play your deck . If your up against something that is MDing 6 or more MD removal spells than it may be better to cast 2 searchers in one turn ; otherwise I would recommend holding as many cards as possible and using only those rebels that you need to drag the game to the state that you have enough mana to just alpha strike with Entity .

Generally the more aggressive a deck is the harder it will be for a Rebel player to answer . Rebels can answer almost anything in the format given time . Its that last word that'll get you . Use your counters to live into the 4th turn . If you aren't able to search by that time you probably should have mulled that one .

About your question regarding vs combo : personally I've found running a good Etutor SB package to be the best bet . Cards like Aura of Silence , Null Rod and Ethersworn Canonist do a great job . You could also add more copies of Childrens of Korlis to specifically fight ANT variations if you know they are plentiful in your meta .

GL and let us know what happens .

---

On another note , I started SBing out the 2nd Entity vs decks not running either Plow and/or Path in their list . I was wondering what everyone's Entity and Sivvi count was in their decks .

I run 2 Sivvi & 1 Entity MD and an extra Entity in the board now , and added a MD Jitte since it's the card I was having the most problems with lately .

preddi

04-06-2011, 12:58 PM

I run 2 Sivvi & 1 Entity MD and an extra Entity in the board now , and added a MD Jitte since it's the card I was having the most problems with lately .

Funny! I run 2 Entity and 1 Sivvi MD and 1 extra Sivvi in the sideboard against removal heavy decks.
The reason for this setup is that i want to make sure, that i can tutor entity up. It sucks if you have entity in your hand with no brainstorm. I'd like a second sivvi md too, but there is nothing i would put out for it :/.

I want to play rebels at saturday again at our tournament. I'm looking forward to it!
After many changes i made to my deck with the help of this thread i think it is quiet strong right now, but I'm still looking for a way to fight pithing needle. One other improvement i can think of is to increase the speed of the rebel engine without TG by one turn. I tried Chrome Mox. It's okay i guess, but i figured that the card disadvantage is sometimes really bad. So I'm not sure if this is right or not.

What do you guys think about this?

Alexeezay

04-06-2011, 01:28 PM

I run 2 Entity and 2 Sivvi Main so I got a better Game 1 (not only G1) against aggro decks/decks with removal/Swords. We can't really win without Entity while facing a fast clock. (okay a few times via Aven Riftwatcher/Whipcorder/Children Of Korlis but takes time to set up)

I have played the deck on the last 2 tournaments & my biggest problem was Team America/Junk decks with Pernicious Deed,E.Plague and such.
Especially Team America was hard because they can counter your measures against such cards...besides heavy discard like junk has, too.
Also Goblins is nearly unbeatable except you got a nice hand and they don't look for gempalm incinerators.

question: Have you been in trouble pitching a blue card for Force Of Will? The blue count is not that high in our deck, I already thought about replacing my Forces with other Counters,Chrome Mox or Reverent Mantra...

what do you think about a mana denial strategy with Stifle & Wasteland? Weathered Wayfarer should be a Rebel for real :DD

preddi

04-09-2011, 01:25 AM

Pitching to FoW is hard i agree, but with the recent rise of combo decks i refuse to play a deck without FoW or a decent disruption. I run 19 blue cards. I'd like to run more, but finding room is the problem here.
Interestingly i haven't had much problems with goblins, but it depends on their draw and if they can get a warchief in play.
Pernicious Deed is a real threat, even E-Plague is usually game i think. I tried a Changeling Hero in my sideboard to bring back a searcher after sweeper effects and for beatdown, but i never used it.
With the recent metagame shift, maybe it's time to reconsider Counterbalance/Top for the rebels again?

Alexeezay

04-09-2011, 08:58 PM

ye I totally agree with you, my meta got infested with various combo decks,too.
Changeling Hero seems decent with Lin Sivvi.
yea! the next time I play Rebels again I probably won't leave home without CB/Top.

Let's see! ;)

preddi

04-10-2011, 01:43 AM

Hey,

i played rebels yesterday at our tournament. Went 4:0 with the following list:

1 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
2 Mirror Entity
2 Defiant Falcon
4 Ramosian Lieutenant
4 Ramosian Sergeant
1 Amrou Scout
1 Knight of the holy Nimbus
1 Big Game Hunter

4 Brainstorm
4 Training Grounds
4 Force of Will
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Daze
4 Spell Pierce

3 Tundra
5 Plains
3 Island
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
3 Gaea's Cradle

Sideboard:

1 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 Runed Halo
2 Serenity
3 Hydroblast
1 Children of Korlis
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Bound in Silence
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Worship
1 Aven Riftwatcher
1 Relic of Progenitus

Played against Dredge (2:1), CounterTopThopter UWr (2:1), Solidarity (2:0) and MonoU Merfolk (2:0)
Most games were close, i think i could've won one more game against CBTop but i messed up. Solidarity found his 4th Land too late G1 and i could stop him with double Spell Pierce and Daze. G2 he never found a 3rd land, so that was a little lucky on my part.

After this i feel like 4 Pierce main was great. It won me at least 3 games. I'm not that happy with my sideboard though. I think i will remove Worship and at least 1 Hydroblast for somethink else.

Alexeezay

04-10-2011, 05:51 AM

nice!

wow, 3 Gaea's Cradle. I played only 1 last time but Children of Korlis and Aven Riftwatcher main. As I got 3 Cradles anway I'm gonna try it out :)
sb Serenity is great right now,too right?

preddi

04-10-2011, 08:34 AM

3 Cradle works well so far, i raised the land count to 22 to fit them in.
Serenity is decent right now. I used it against CBTop, but i brought them mainly for affinity and MUD.

forsmark

04-10-2011, 01:46 PM

This deck surprises me! I just thought I would play some rebels for some good laughs, but after testing against AggroBant, going 7-3, I am surprised by the strength of the deck! The endless blockers and uncounterable Mirror Entities are a much bigger threat than I initially thought they would be. Maybe it's because I didn't play during the MM times, and as such never witnessed the power of rebels, but I still take my hats off to you guys. Smooth ride :)

Indykid Vago

04-10-2011, 04:33 PM

Nicely done preddi , and yeah man about that solidarity matchup . its horrible unless lady luck is on our side .

preddi

04-22-2011, 07:26 AM

Hey, now after the New Phyrexia spoiler is online, i was a little disappointed becaurse there were no rebels again :/...
But i think Mental Mistep could be a nice addition to the deck. I'm trying to find space for it. As i really love my spell pierces main, i thought maybe Swords or Daze could go.
What do you guys think?
I'd love to raise the blue count a little with it and i think it's actually the ideal problem solver for this deck. It has problems with decks that are a little faster (goblins mainly, affinity) and decks that run much removal such as zoo.

Alexeezay

04-22-2011, 07:38 AM

I think about replacing Swords to Plowshares with Mental Misstep because the creatures we fear the most are usually Grim Lavamancer and Goblin Lackey anyways. What do you think about adding Wastelands then? MM kills Noble Hierarch and Nacatls, too so with Wasteland we stand pretty good against Bant/Zoo for a tempo game. Not necessarily for Bant but Zoo has always been a problematic matchup...
the problem is that Zoo will be likely to run Mental Misstep, too so we will end up in the same situation if they will play it.

Nabbydian

04-22-2011, 10:25 AM

i tried the rebel deck before but i realised when the opponent dropped a tarmogofy with FOW backup against my STP it is usually good game for me, my list were without Gaea's Cradle though

it seems the deck is very reliant on Gaea's Cradle and with wasteland rampant in my metagame i'm not sure if the deck can hangs on

below is the my decklist. i dont have a playset of FOW thus i'm using sub-par counters

//Rebel Still
//Creatures [17]
1 Amrou Seekers
1 Aven Riftwatcher
1 Children of Korlis
1 Defiant Falcon
1 Defiant Vanguard
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
2 Mirror Entity
2 Ramosian Lieutenant
4 Ramosian Sergeant
1 Shield Dancer
1 Whipcorder
//Spells [21]
4 Arcane Denial
1 Bound in Silence
1 Day of Judgment
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Standstill
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Wrath of God
//Lands [23]
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scrying Sheets
6 Snow-Covered Island
9 Snow-Covered Plains

preddi

04-22-2011, 02:13 PM

I don't think that Zoo would run Mental Misstep. What would you cut for it? Burn Spells? I don't think so, but maybe i'm wrong ^^.

@Nabbydian: I suggest reading the last pages at this thread. There are some Lists that seem to do pretty well. When i look at your list i think you should cut some rebels and add some great cards like Training Grounds and Brainstorm.
Without FoW though i think this deck is not very potent. You need some free counterspells. Maybe even Reverent Mantra as a little FoW replacement against removal spells. It is also good for an alpha strike with protection from blockers ^^.

Alexeezay

04-22-2011, 04:28 PM

yea maybe I just swam with the wave of overreacting :D so basically Mental Misstep is a Swords or Daze replacement
do you play CBTop now preddi?

(nameless one)

04-22-2011, 07:12 PM

Honestly, I wasn't really excited with Daze on this deck. The deck needs to hit each of it's land drops. I think Mental Misstep is a great replacement for Daze. Though you cannot deny the goodness of Daze.

Isn't Swords to Plowshares doing it job? Why would we cut it in this deck?

Alexeezay

04-22-2011, 07:16 PM

I considered cutting Swords because of the low blue count...but I think I'm gonna play 3 Swords,4 Mental Misstep,4 FOW;4 Brainstorm,4 Spell Pierce, 4 Training Grounds

preddi

04-23-2011, 01:40 AM

The main reason i thought about cutting swords is to raise the number of blue cards. I need swords to handle lackey or buy some time. Maybe misstep can fill that role too. but running daze, pierce, fow and mistep looks like an overkill to me.

Alexeezay:
I play no CbTop right now. The deck felt pretty solid without it so i haven´t changed anything. But i still think it´s a great tech vs combo and slower decks.

Muradin

05-20-2011, 08:30 PM

Since the spoiling of Mental Misstep I've been testing Rebels extensively and this deck is definitely one of the best uses for it. The deck has a solid combo matchup combined with a redundant engine. So far my testin has been quite promising.

My current list is pretty straight forward:

4 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
4 Marsh Flats
4 Tundra
2 Plains
1 Island
1 Gaeas Cradle

4 Ramosian Sergeant
4 Defiant Falcon
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
2 Mirror Entity
2 Stoneforge Mystic

4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Training Grounds

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

SB:

4 Peacekeeper
4 Meddling Mage
4 Spell Pierce
1 Thermal Glider
1 Children of Korlis
1 Bound in Silence

So far it has been consistent, redundant and still powerful enough most of the time.

Stoneforge Mystic improves the aggro matchups and is just necessary in today's metagame. The board is geared towards beating combo and Merfolk, simply because those are matchups where we have

A) Things to board out.
B) Tools to fight them efficiently (unlike Zoo)

Indykid Vago

05-22-2011, 02:18 AM

wow 12 fetches ?

preddi

05-22-2011, 05:03 PM

I like the Peacekeepers in the sb. But when i look at Muradin's list i think, that it doesn't have enough recruiters. I play 4 Lieutenant, 4 Sergeant, 2 Falcon, 2 Amrou Scout at the moment and i think you need many for removals and for consistancy, but i haven't tested my list with missteps yet.
Stoneforge Mystic is a good card no doubt, but i think it is too slow against most aggro decks. I mean you can equip jitte turn 4 and you are usually way behind in board position. Having no good carriers except for falcon maybe is also a problem.
I'm testing Counterspell in Daze's place atm becaurse i want more hard counters. Dunno if it works out, but the format has slown down a bit since misstep.

(nameless one)

05-22-2011, 08:11 PM

I never really liked Daze in this deck because all the land-drop this deck makes is important to it. Daze sets this deck back up a turn. If this deck ran Vials, it might be okay but even then Vials aren't needed.

Alexeezay

05-23-2011, 07:06 AM

Muradin's list is good, especially the stoneforge mystics. they are just necessary.
Although I would replace 4 Daze with 3 Spell Pierce and 1 more Recruiter (probably Ramosian Lieutnant) and replace 1 Swords to Plowshares with Big Game Hunter/Bound in Silence mb.
together with sb children of korlis you still got the rebel's toolbox fun ;)

Why no E.Tutor sideboard?

Indykid Vago

05-23-2011, 02:30 PM

I think it's pretty awesome he runs a full set of Mages in the board for sure .

I assume the peacekeepers are for Merfolk , because most of the other decks will have a way to deal with that one . I doubt anyone sides out removal vs a Rebel deck .

That said , without really knowing what meta he is preparing it's hard to talk about sideboards . But i'm going to assume that his meta is full of 4 EPlague in everyone's SB so the Mages and the Pierces would help with that .

That said . . .

Muradin , I like the Enlightened Tutor Sb because Rebels generates card advantage , I seldom ever miss losing 1 card in a game to find an answer .

I've felt that recently , ETutor got a little bit weaker because of all the Missteps around right now . So I could see going to a more card heavy approach over a silver bullet approach .

Alexeezay

05-23-2011, 02:40 PM

ah right missed that on e.tutor. Gonna try the list as it is except the spell pierce/daze thing

preddi

05-23-2011, 03:00 PM

Resolved Eplague is usually gg :/... My meta doesn't involve eplague much though. I think people are right about not playing it, becaurse isn't good enough vs volk, but great against goblins(which i haven't seen since MM).
I will test Stoneforge and see how good it actually is. It provides another win option too.

Prkchpsndwiches

05-23-2011, 09:51 PM

I always like playing off-the cuff decks and this looks really fun. Ordered a bunch of cards to build and test. I'll post intial decklists and something more polished over the next few weeks. I didn't even think about Children of Korlis as recurring defense/life. Nice tech. Also I did not see this mentioned, but don't forget you can sac Children of Korlis to remove bridges from dredge!! So it's good for storm and dredge.

preddi

06-03-2011, 04:58 PM

So after a little testing(replaced swords with MM and 3 Daze with 2 Counterspell and 1 more recruiter). I think MM will stay. I'm not so sure about counterspell though. I miss swords a little bit. Daze was good but not great.
Did someone test the Stoneforge package? I'm curious about sword of feast and famine, is it the best sword for rebels?

Alexeezay

06-03-2011, 05:55 PM

what do you think of cutting Force of Will? We have very few blue cards to pitch anyway. GP Providence was won by a Bant deck without FOW

(nameless one)

06-03-2011, 08:55 PM

I wouldn't fully cut FoWs. I would cut Daze first I would cut FoWs. Maybe run 2-3 instead.

Alexeezay

06-13-2011, 10:29 AM

Hey guys, wanna try Rebels soon again.
My list would go with 2 Stoneforges and 2 Equips, and 4 Mental Misstep, maybe Counterspells in spell pierce/whatever slot like preddi suggested.

Question: Is the Enlightened Tutor Sideboard still good? Or do you run it? With MentalMs around now.
Or would you prefer a controling sideboard with Canonists/Meddling Mages & Peacekeepers?

Prkchpsndwiches

06-13-2011, 11:52 AM

Played this deck in testing for an evening. Vs Tier 1/2 decks and it was abyssmal! I dismantled it already. :(

(nameless one)

06-13-2011, 01:11 PM

Played this deck in testing for an evening. Vs Tier 1/2 decks and it was abyssmal! I dismantled it already. :(

Good for you.

preddi

06-13-2011, 02:29 PM

Played this deck in testing for an evening. Vs Tier 1/2 decks and it was abyssmal! I dismantled it already. :(

May i ask which decks did you test against?

I played my list at our local tournament this saturday. Was around 36 people. I went 3-2-1. Lost against Maverick 1-2. One game i never found one blue mana source in 12 turns and the second game loss was against jitte/mindcensor/mother of runes board. Which i think i could have won, but i messed up. Second loss was against 4 color control with deed/humility/standstill. He simply had too much going on in both games.
I won against Aluren, G/R aggro and Dredge. The draw was against some R/w aggro with goblin guide/stoneforge mystic with lots of spot removal. I could have won this game, but i boarded Big Game hunter out and got suprised by batterskull (well he resolved 3 Phyrexian revoker naming sergeant, Lin Sivvi and Mirror Entity in Game 3, sadly i never drew one of my 4 Swords to plowshares even with just 18 cards left in my library, which would have won me the game).

But it was fun to play it again :D. Finish was 10th place.

*edit: All games that i lost involved enchantments or equipments of some sort. I'm currently think about adding some outs against this stuff to my list. Any suggestions?

Alexeezay

06-13-2011, 03:47 PM

you could always run Disenchant or Seal of Cleansing

Prkchpsndwiches

06-14-2011, 01:13 PM

May i ask which decks did you test against?

I played my list at our local tournament this saturday. Was around 36 people. I went 3-2-1. Lost against Maverick 1-2. One game i never found one blue mana source in 12 turns and the second game loss was against jitte/mindcensor/mother of runes board. Which i think i could have won, but i messed up. Second loss was against 4 color control with deed/humility/standstill. He simply had too much going on in both games.
I won against Aluren, G/R aggro and Dredge. The draw was against some R/w aggro with goblin guide/stoneforge mystic with lots of spot removal. I could have won this game, but i boarded Big Game hunter out and got suprised by batterskull (well he resolved 3 Phyrexian revoker naming sergeant, Lin Sivvi and Mirror Entity in Game 3, sadly i never drew one of my 4 Swords to plowshares even with just 18 cards left in my library, which would have won me the game).

But it was fun to play it again :D. Finish was 10th place.

*edit: All games that i lost involved enchantments or equipments of some sort. I'm currently think about adding some outs against this stuff to my list. Any suggestions?

I lost to Merfolk, Hive Mind, PainterStone, and a mono green NO deck, a mono green Pattern of Rebirth deck (I even spellshaped an Emrakul!), Reanimator and Standstill. The games I won were due to floods/screws on my opponents end. The deck is just too slow.

preddi

06-19-2011, 06:10 PM

Well i admit the deck is a little slow without TG but from my experience the deck performs not that bad. I think its even favored against merfolk. Sure it depends on draws and lists though. Against combo decks like hive mind and painter i think its close to optimal because you run lots of counters. Cards like wasteland don't help there either. Don't get me wrong, this deck is not a real topdeck but it performs well out of surprise :)
I'm considering adding Stoneforge to this deck now. Still thinking what i can cut. Another adaption to my current meta is replacing spell pierce with daze again, because of the recent rise of maverick decks.

Alexeezay

06-20-2011, 05:31 AM

My meta is full of Maverick decks, so I will probably set my Rebels aside until the meta changes. Even if I'd add Stoneforge Mystic the chance to win against them is low. Sure you can equip a Defiant Falcon for the win...but they got so much utility and every card is powerful against us, especially GSZ/Pridemage/A.Mindcensor/Batterskull/Jitte/SFM. Oh and StP/Path to Exile.

preddi

06-22-2011, 04:57 PM

Well i get your point. Maverick is a strong deck, but i think the only cards that really hurt are mindcensor and jitte (with mother support). Batterskull and pridemage are not that scary with BGH (if mother is not around).
My problem atm is that my other deck options are merfolk and affinity. I think merfolk can steal wins against maverick, but the overall chances seem to be lower than the chances of my rebel list. Dunno about affinity though.

Indykid Vago

06-22-2011, 05:17 PM

Preddi , if you are having problems with Maverick than try using extra Mages , Needles and Revokers in the sb .

I've moved away from the Enlightened Tutor Sb and towards a 5 card list , has anyone else been trying out this sb plan ?

preddi

06-22-2011, 05:56 PM

Indykid Vago

06-22-2011, 07:00 PM

The Meddling ones :)

Alexeezay

06-23-2011, 09:15 AM

why are mages good against GW Maverick? theyre only good against NoPro and usually maverick doesnt play it.

(nameless one)

07-29-2011, 10:38 AM

Someone made top8 with this deck:

CounterRebels (http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6549&iddeck=47461)

Discuss

nedleeds

07-29-2011, 11:22 AM

why are mages good against GW Maverick? theyre only good against NoPro and usually maverick doesnt play it.

The stock internet Maverick deck plays 4 x STP as its only removal (spell based removal anyway).

preddi

08-02-2011, 07:53 AM

Hi,

nicely done (nameless one). I'm curious why you chose to play CBTop package in the current meta, becaurse CBTop seems to have almost completely disapeared.
19 Lands looks fragile too, but maybe with ponder and top it could prove ok.

greetz preddi

(nameless one)

08-02-2011, 08:23 AM

I wasn't the one who piloted the deck. I just saw it on TC Decks.

Unfortunately I can't tell you why those choices are made. I do agree that the CounterTop combo seems off. I think the reason why there's 19 lands is because Brainstorm can fix that problem.

Hans Kazan

10-13-2011, 10:23 AM

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forums. Got here because of this really cool thread and deck which I started playing in March.

I played the deck at a Trial for GP Amsterdam last sunday, and went 3-3-1. It was my first Legacy and official tournament experience, so I'm statisfied with how it went. With more knowledge of the opposing decks I think I could've done better...

Anyone still playing the deck and interested in a small report and decklist?

Piceli89

10-13-2011, 09:16 PM

Since these days I'm picking up odd, suboptimal decks and trying to optimize them:

My.God.This.Deck.Is.TEH.SHITZ.
Totally funny and stimulating to play.

This is the list I came to after an evening of tests:

2 [BRB] Plains (9)
3 [LRW] Island (1)
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
4 [R] Tundra
4 [JGC] Flooded Strand
1 [M12] Glacial Fortress
1 [LG] Karakas

// Creatures
2 [TSP] Amrou Scout
2 [NE] Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 [TSP] Children of Korlis
1 [NE] Defiant Falcon
2 [LRW] Mirror Entity
1 [MM] Ramosian Lieutenant
4 [MM] Ramosian Sergeant
1 [TSP] Knight of the Holy Nimbus
1 [NE] Defiant Vanguard

// Spells
4 [ROE] Training Grounds
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [BRB] Swords to Plowshares
1 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
1 [FUT] Bound in Silence
2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
3 [NE] Daze
3 [DIS] Spell Snare

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 2 [ARB] Meddling Mage

SB: 1 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [WL] Serenity
SB: 2 [US] Absolute Law

SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt

SB: 1 [CST] Disenchant
SB: 1 [GTW] Path to Exile

SB: 1 [PLC] Aven Riftwatcher

SB: 2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor

About the lands:
- I don't like too many basics. If you open with Plains, you cut yourself off the Brainstorm and the counters+Daze; if you open with Island, you're cutting yourself off Sergeant. I'll go ahead and risk with 5 Tundras.
- 19 may be too low, in fact I'm pondering whether or not to go back to 20 cutting the Enlightened Tutor, which is essentially Grounds #5. No Cradles or fancy stuff (Tomb), just solid manabase.

About the RRRebels package:
- No Dunerider Outlaw, nor BGH. I want to be able to cast them, too. Bound in Silence fullfils the same role, although not being able to tutor for it, block with it, put it back in the deck and doing some loops. It doesn't stop stuff like equipped weenies or Cliques, though.
- CoK is great, makes you autowin from ANT game1 as you resolve a Sergeant, plus it has some tricks with Lin Sivvi. It's also the only way to "stop" Progenitus.
- I love Aven riftwatcher, because it can be a good utility against burn and aggressive decks, as well as having a Rebel with a decent body/cost ratio and an additional evasive beater. Contemplating what to cut to possibly fit it maindeck.

About the countersuite:
- No Counterbalance. How's possible to play it with 2+ plains and in such a mana-intensive environment? Top is another card that would slow down the deck further. To draw maximum efficiency, the lock should be assembled on the first turns, in order to protect the Rebels in the tutor-chaining. I think it's better to start from the accomplish the gameplan, without either delaying it or diluting the list. Deck already takes some times to start working."Tempo" counters are preferred because they make able to survive the first 3 turns, plus protecting the first Rebels played.
- Spell Snare to stop Tourach, Qasali Pridemage, Stoneforge Mystic fetching Jitte or SoFI, combo tutors, and Snapcaster Mage recycling removals.

About the sideboard:
- This deck loses hard to the Punishing Fire recursion, a well-timed Firespout without a Rebel following the turn after, Volcanic Fallout, a resolved Lavamancer, Fire/Ice. Anything red. Absolute law may be either too slow or not enough. I still don't know how to solve this issue (maybe it's just not possible). I packed a couple of Laws along with some Relics, which turned to be extremely useful in the Zoo matchup to leave Lavamancer and the green beefs at bay. I guess it won't make the cut, but for the moments let's try.
- Jace is there as a surprise bomb against Team America and Landeed, where you suck hard if they land a Pernicious Deed and control you a bit.
- Mages are there as futher disruption against combo.

I'm falling in absolute LOVE with this deck. It feels like when you're racing with your friends and you know that you have an absolutely suboptimal, outdated car/motorcycle/videogame character/whatsoever, but you know it well and can pull the best out of it. Although being slightly known, the surprise factor can still hit hard, especially at great-scale tournaments.
Still, there are some issues to resolve, so it's very puzzling in both building and playing.

TokenMaster

10-15-2011, 06:38 AM

I tried the Counterbalance build, and although it does slow the deck down even more than it already is, it's absolutely AMAZING when it actually works. You have a decent variety of mana costs to work with, and you can shuffle your deck with recruiting shenanigans to get multiple chances to counter. It locks down decks without Vial HARD.

Right now I feel like the difficult matchups are aggro, anything red, and team America/deadguy variants. The stuff that can either kill you before you can set up or are generally just full of creature hate. That's why I feel Mother of Runes is a staple for the deck.

Alexeezay

12-22-2011, 01:00 PM

Hello, anybody still playing this deck or at least trying? :D
Wanna rock with my rebels again soon :)
Greetz

preddi

12-23-2011, 04:29 PM

Hey,
I was thinking about playing IT again. Mm really hurt this deck, gut it's gone now. The Lack of sweepers in the recent meta lets me hope again.

Crust

01-07-2012, 12:06 PM

I play Rebels and I´m trying a variation of lists. In my opinion the Rebels are strong when you get them activated but before that they are just chumpers, so I want to have another threat in my list. I´ve tried Tomstalkers and that was ok but the the third colour was a weakness.
Right now this is the list. Just an ordinary UW and Jötun Grunt. It works quite well but I need some critical comments.
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
4 Ramosian Sergeant
1 Ramosian Lieutenant
3 Defiant Falcon
2 Mirror Entity
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Whipcorder
2 Jötun Grunt
ENCHANTMENTS (8)
1 Bound in Silence
3 Standstill
4 Training Grounds
INSTANTS (15)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
LANDS (22)
2 Gaea’s Cradle
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
3 Tundra
4 Plains
3 Island
2 Wasteland

Alexeezay

01-08-2012, 06:47 AM

if you need a back up plan you could just use SFM + Equipment.
Maybe we should go back to Countertop in the new Meta?

Crust

01-08-2012, 11:18 AM

Yes that is a good idea, tried it for a while but didn´t like it very much because of the equipments, they´re not threats on there own. But maybe Batterskull is a must, have to try again.

preddi

01-13-2012, 02:48 AM

I'm still hoping wizards is printing new rebels so i'm checking every spoilers for rebels, but no rebels so far again :(. would be nice if some awesome rebels would be printed though (i still want them to work).

Alexeezay

01-13-2012, 05:02 AM

I feel that Rebels are like Slivers or Mercenaries, a tribe which is special but only printed/popular for once in a long time...it's possible that we have to wait another 2-3 blocks until they print a new rebellion :D

preddi

03-30-2012, 05:59 AM

I revitalized my deck again and i have to say, it's still a blast to play.

But Grafdigger's Cage ruins my hope, that this deck will be good in the near future, which is sad.

(nameless one)

03-30-2012, 07:40 AM

Unless they print more new Rebels (even in Commander/Archenemy precons), I don't see Sivvi carrying all the load in the format. She could barely make ends meet in EDH.

Alexeezay

03-30-2012, 08:18 AM

Until Punishing Fire sees less play it feels like Rebels is not playable

preddi

06-23-2012, 07:41 AM

Until Punishing Fire sees less play it feels like Rebels is not playable

Done! (although i don't think this is enough to make this deck good). I just found some nice vids with a Counter Rebels CBTop list with a decktech. Unfortunately this is in Spanish.

http://zasca-team.blogspot.de/2012/02/videos-counter-rebels-momir-basic.html

I sleeved up my rebels again for fun reasons (It kills Sneak and Show decks quiet nicely and i dislike this kind of decks the most).
Still looking for nice techs for this deck and hope they print new rebels but no so far ^^.
-preddi

preddi

05-09-2013, 04:44 AM

Hi,

dunno if anyone is still interested in this deck, but I want play my rebel deck again at our local tournament (< 20players), mainly for fun reasons.
The meta is usually combo heavy (SnT, Storm, Reanimator/TinFins) and a little bit of the usual tempo/Jund stuff. I think rebels is good vs the combo decks, because it can deal with cheated fatties (Big Game Hunter, Bound in Silence) and Tendrils (Children of Korlis) very well. The Jund matchup is probably not very good though ^^.

I'm a little bit torn between this two variants of the deck:

MiracleRebels:

2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
4 Ramosian Sergeant
2 Ramosian Lieutenant
3 Defiant Falcon
1 Amrou Scout
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Shapesharer
2 Mirror Entity
1 Children of Korlis
3 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Training Grounds
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
1 Ponder
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
4 Plains
2 Gaea's Cradle
2 Marsh Flats
3 Cavern of Souls

Sideboard:
1 Changeling Hero/Changeling Titan
1 Aven Riftwatcher
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Terminus
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Disenchant
1 Detention Sphere
1 Whipcorder
1 Bound in Silence

I added the miracle package to the board to beat creature decks with Terminus and PFire Decks with Entreat. The rest is pretty standard toolboxing. The Hero/Titan are here to counter Wrath-effects.

Or CBRebels:
4 Ramosian Sergeant
2 Ramosian Lieutenant
1 Amrou Scout
1 Defiant Falcon
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 Mirror Entity
1 Shapesharer
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Children of Korlis
1 Defiant Vanguard
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Training Grounds
4 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Island
3 Plains
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
3 Cavern of Souls

Sideboard:
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Bound in Silence
2 Disenchant
3 Spell Pierce
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Aven Riftwatcher
1 Detention Sphere

Not sold on Cavern here, maybe colored mana for CB or Ancient Tomb is better.

What is the better version for me? Or should I play a completely different version?

-preddi

Poron

05-09-2013, 04:53 AM

I can't see the plan in this deck.. you build a army of 1/1 and 1/2 to...?

4 Delver of Secrets alone are better .. or am I missing something?

How this deck gets out from
Cursed Totem
Pithing Needle (on Mirror Entity)
Humility
Moat

Miracle Control looks popular these days and packs all of these cards..

preddi

05-09-2013, 05:01 AM

The plan is to tutor up mirror Entity and attack with a bunch of x/x's :>

The cards you mentioned suck, but are not played much. Moats is not a problem with Falcons in the deck.

(nameless one)

05-09-2013, 08:42 AM

I think two Caverns should do the job. While you do need the color for your non-rebels, you also want your rebels to be uncounterable.

Also, Caverns on Humans opens so much possibility (Sivvi and most of your rebel searchers are Humans)

preddi

05-09-2013, 08:53 AM

Why put caverns on humans? You think "faking" other decks is more important to make all rebels uncounterable? I think Amrou Scout and Falcon are only non-human creatures though.

-preddi

KazinMtg

05-12-2013, 11:19 AM

Seems like a fun deck, but pretty slow. What's your typical "goldfish turn"?

preddi

05-12-2013, 12:20 PM

Usually 4-6

clubfivesix

06-15-2015, 02:06 PM

I was looking at different ways to make this deck and different ways to abuse tutoring cards from the deck. Just curious as to what people thought about maybe installing an Enlightened Tutor toolbox package? First it can fetch out Training Grounds. You could even make it function like a fetchland and put in artifact lands such as Ancient Den and Seat of the Synod for color fixing, deck thinning, and consistency of land drops. You can put in Oblivion Ring and have tutorable removal in the deck as well.

Creatures
4x Ramosian Sergeant
4x Defiant Falcon
2x Ramosian Lieutenant
1x Whipcorder
2x Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
2x Mirror Entity
1x Defiant Vanguard

Instant/Sorcery
4x Enlightened Tutor (maybe instead of Brainstorm??)
4x Force of Will
4x Spell Pierce
4x Swords to Plowshares

Enchantments
4x Training Grounds
2x Oblivion Ring

Lands
4x Gaea's Cradle
4x Tundra
4x Flooded Strand
5x Plains
3x Island
1x Ancient Den
1x Seat of the Synod

Thoughts on the E Tutor toolbox package?

Weapon X

06-16-2015, 03:34 PM

Training grounds continues to be a bad card. I don't understand the draw to play more then one let alone any. It could easily be a better blue card, like brainstorm.

Undomian

06-16-2015, 05:01 PM

maybe instead of Brainstorm??

I guarantee that your deck will be worse in this configuration. Enlightened Tutor definitely interesting in that it gives you another angle of interaction (and maybe you could find some way to make it add redundancy to your deck similarly to the RW Painter builds), but it's probably just the case that adding it is jamming too many different things into the deck. If you really want to play with Enlightened Tutor, consider that you probably don't need 8 virtual copies of Training Grounds since, after the first, they're pretty much stone awful.

theBloody

06-17-2015, 02:56 AM

Low blue count to support fow. Also pitching Grounds seems like unwanted play. With Brainstorm you are at 16 cards, which is minimum to make fow playable. Without BS you are at 12. Better to replace fow with something (probably move it to sideboard).