[SCD]: Zur's Weirding

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I know there's sort of a stigma around here about starting SCD threads, I hope y'all agree that this is a significantly interesting card to start a discussion about.

It seems very hard to build around, but I've always been impressed with its ability to lock out games. It seems like building around it would make Pulse of the Fields very very good. Also, Scroll Rack could be pretty good, since it lets you get new cards in hand without technically drawing them. I'd hesitate to use it with Dark Confidant because of life loss issues, but his effect also works with it.

I think one of the main problems with it is that you would need to use it with recursive ewn cons like Call the Skybreaker, Eternal Dragon, or Factory/Crucible...

I don't know, I was just wondering if anyone's tried building with it.

[JeroenC]

I tried using it, but I didn't make anything decent. I tried for a while, but unless if a better player/builder thinks of things I didn't, I doubt it will work out. And no, I don't remember what exactly I tried, it was a while ago.

[Maveric78f]

It's good with dredge in general. So it's good with Life from the Loam in particular. It used to be played also with the white epic spell.

My thinking about it: it appears too late. It's too fragile. It's too reflexive.

[Forbiddian]

I'll say off the bat this card is horrible. Horrible card, horrible thread (same as every other SCD).


You can win the game for 3UU with Dream Halls, in a fairly efficient shell, with one of any half-dozen spells in your hand. Oh, and Dream Halls is still way too slow to be competitive. It's a solid tier 3.

Zur's Weirding costs 3U, so whatever combo you have in mind better be damn good. In fact, Zur's Weirding doesn't affect the game in any tangible way until your opponent's next draw step, so already we're looking at it as being far worse because you can't seal up a game instantly with Zur.

Zur's Weirding can never be useful outside of whatever combo it fits in, because it's symmetrical. It's pretty much mathematically eliminated from being involved in any combo deck, as it's flanked by Dream Halls on one side and Painter's Grind on the other.

So now we're down to, I guess, a control shell? It seems like it would function as nothing short of card disadvantage, and for 3U it's way too slow to affect the board.

Maybe it could be used as a board card to hose Landstill in some ponderously slow control deck? I don't even know, looks completely unplayable.



BTW, it doesn't work with Pulse of the Fields. He's paying life to stop your draws, as well. Eventually he'll get low enough to blank Pulse, so it's not a hard lock.

[Skeggi]

I run it in a casual deck. Even there it's often not good enough; even with bulks of lifegain. I can't see how it could be a viable Legacy card.

[hi-val]

I ran it for awhile in Gifts Rock. It's a great way to stop someone from drawing the cards that can shut you down and can keep them off things like Krosan Grip or Armageddon. It was fantastic for that role. The way you played around it was having Genesis/Stronghold/Ruins or the like to recur your threat. For example, Gigapede could just go right around Zur's Weirding. If one could get Clearwater Goblet or Pulse of the Fields going, Weirding was a straight up lockout.

It's a fine card when you need to stop an opponent from drawing certain kinds of cards and can withstand them seeing your hand and possibly stopping your win conditions as well.

[Skeggi]

The problem is, your opponent can do the same to you. If you're playing a deck which can play a 4cmc enchantment, your opponent probably has alot more threats than you in his deck, so it's easier for him to lock you out than vice versa.

[The Wolf]

Seems more like an aggro game ender then a control card. Throw down a few dorks and play Zur's. If at any point you have a damage advantage, you should be able to race.
The fact that you can see the cards in their hand means you do win with Zur's... Unless they already had the answer.

[Forbiddian]

The problem with that is that Standstill exists.

[Malchar]

I played around with this when it was in Standard (along with Words of Worship). It's a pretty nice little combo. The problem is that the opponent still has access to everything that's already in their hand and graveyard. The card completely fails against something like Ichorid. I could see it appearing in a Landstill shell as a meta choice. Even still, it would seem to be rather bad. Bloodghast probably made it a lot more viable, but I think it will need a few more cards before it's truly playable.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Well anyhow, thanks for humoring me. I agree with y'all that it's a long way from being viable right now, and to be honest I couldn't even really imagine what all it would take to break the symmetry of the card.

It's just always seemed like an interesting card design, if nothing else... I sort of have a soft spot for those cards that are basically unusable, but offer such a powerful effect if you could just possibly get it to work.

(This is probably why I think Possessed Portal is the most hilarious Magic card ever printed, but I'll spare everyone the agony of starting an SCD on that one. I don't wanna get banned or anything. :laugh: )

[Phoenix Ignition]

How is this even a thread?

It costs 4, it doesn't win you the game outright. The situations where it is good are much more difficult to set up because it is only good if your other 56 cards are beating them in the first 4 turns. You even give the opponent 4 turns of uninterrupted (by this card anyway) draws/cantrips/library manipulation to mold their hand perfectly.

Running this in a deck means you're not running other good cards in its place. This means that the overall quality of card that your deck runs is less than the quality of cards that the opposing deck runs, so you absolutely need to build a deck around this card for it to be good. Building a deck around a sub-par not game-devastating card is just bad.

[chokin]

Haha, put it in Fairie Stompy. Turn 1 Drake/Efreet, Turn 2 Zur, laugh.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Haha, put it in Fairie Stompy. Turn 1 Drake/Efreet, Turn 2 Zur, laugh.

Turn 3 get your Drake/Efreet plowed, opponent drops Tarmogoyf. They laugh.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

How is this even a thread?



I was just wondering what peoples' opinions on the card were because I thought it would make an interesting topic of conversation.

I'm not advocating that anyone actually play the damn thing, for God's sake!

[tpnp]

There used to be a UWR Control deck in Standard that used Zur's + Firemane Angel that set up a lock:
http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=16136

I don't believe a port of this would be viable at all in today's world, but it was fun to play at the time.

[sunshine]

This is one of my favorite cards in casual, I run it in a rebels shell. In general though, dropping it wins you the game if you're ahead and loses you the game if you're behind (with the exception being that you already have a way to get ahead before your opponent wins, like having a rebel recruiter) - making it largely win more.

It's pretty funny against combo though, if they haven't drawn the win yet they never will.

[Nihil Credo]

I know there's sort of a stigma around here about starting SCD threads
Yes.

I hope y'all agree that this is a significantly interesting card to start a discussion about.
No.

Well anyhow, thanks for humoring me. I agree with y'all that it's a long way from being viable right now, and to be honest I couldn't even really imagine what all it would take to break the symmetry of the card.
Ok.

(This is probably why I think Possessed Portal is the most hilarious Magic card ever printed, but I'll spare everyone the agony of starting an SCD on that one. I don't wanna get banned or anything. :laugh: )
Good.