[Worldwake] Set Discussion Thread

[Shugyosha]

I didn't like it in the beginning (it's far away from Jitte's power level), but it has potential. E.g. give it to a first striking protection knight or, as already mentioned, break Goyf stalemates.

It is by far nearer to Jitte's power level than any other equipment before (leaving banned Skullclamp aside) and it connects a turn earlier. Some decks might play 2 Jitte 1 Collar instead of 3 Jitte.

[freakish777]

Dude, you guys missed the most important interaction!

Death's Shadow + LICH! What are you gonna do when Nourishing Lich comes for you!

[Lothian]

About Abyssal Persecutor...

Does anyone else think this dude is awesome in a Sui Black shell? You'd have to include some sac outlets, but between Cabal Therapy, Gatekeeper of Malakir, and possibly even Diabolic Tutor (to give you the ability to do it as an instant), there are pretty good options available. Plus, he's bigger than Tombstalker and you only need to be half as afraid of flipping it over with Dark Confidant...

Just wondering if anyone else has sort of a boner for that card, because I skimmed through this thread and there doesn't seem to be all that much discussion of this card, and I think he could be a fucking beatstick in the right deck.

Yeah

I think black was in need of decent creatures, which have come along lately.

18 Zen Block Eva No Green:

2 lake of the dead
4 Bojuka Bog
16 swamps

4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 dark confidant
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Nantuko shade

2 Basilik Colar

4 dark ritual
2 culling the weak
1 diabolic intent

4 hymn to tourach
3 toughtseize
2 cabal therapy

Bring on the Tarmo,

Bring it on !!

[Digital Devil]

Stoneforge Mystic :1::w:
Creature - Kor Artificer
-----------------------------
When Stoneforge Mystic Enters the Battlefield, you may search your library for an equipment card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. If you do, shuffle your library.
:1::w:, tap: Put an Equipment card from your hand onto the battlefield.

1/2
The first time I saw the card, I was impressed. Mainly because it's the card I always wanted to be released, and probably because I started to play this game with Angel Stompy and *almost* never looked back since then (I used to play Dragon Stompy for something like 6 months but it was as boring as hell to play, hence my decision to sell the cards). I don't want to waste this forum's space with personal things, so let's start our analysis. A :1::w: card. Pretty standard value for a white creature to be considered playable. A 1/2 body. Not bad at all, though its main purpose is another. The sum of those specifical things I want to talk about is a 2 drop with built-in card advantage.

When Stoneforge Mystic Enters the Battlefield, you may search your library for an equipment card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. If you do, shuffle your library.
About this card & Angel Stompy
If you're playing this in Angel Stompy, then it's not a 1/2 turn two drop. It's a 1/2 which can occasionally inherit the abilities of the equipment you just searched for. If the equipment you're searching for is neither Sword of Fire and Ice nor Jitte, then you're looking for other type of answers via Mask, mainly because a 1/2 is unlikely to hit your opponent's life total. Equipments are good because they are essential to mantain a slight advantage over other threats, while providing gas or making the race favourable. You want to draw equipments, because if they get destroyed or countered then you're basically playing 2/2s for two mana while for the same investment, there might be a 4/5 on the other side of the table. But equipments can also be bad, because if you draw an arsenal then you have additional Swords/Jittes clogging your hand. You desperately need a creature in that situation, but then it gets Plowed on sight and you wish that Sword in your hand was a threat, or you wish that Sword was real so you could slay Yoshimitsu-style that bastard sitting in front of you. Stoneforge Mystic doubles as an equipment carrier and equipment finder, avoiding those annoying turns in which you "draw, go" praying for a creature coming off the top of your deck. Now Angel Stompy players can play less equipments while retaining the same chance of having them into play, also by selecting the proper piece at the correct time. The most important thing is that this card solves one of the main problems against :u: based archetypes: equipments tend to be countered, and then they overwhelm our little army of weenies with huge, cheap monsters. Now equipments are certain to hit the ground, sometimes by earning a slight discount (Swords costing 1 mana less), sometimes by suffering a heavy mana burden (if you play Mystic instead of equipments, and not in addition to them, then you have to add :1::w: to those cards' mana cost). Sneaking "enhancement artifacts" at instant speed is nearly useless, except for those cases in which you have more than 3 mana and want to stay open for a StP until your opponent's end step and don't want to uncover yourself, or when they're Duressing you on their turn.

About this card & other archetypes
Jitte is the best available equipment we have, and even then it doesn't see much play in the top tiers. There is absolutely no reason one would want to run Mystic instead of, say, additional Jittes.

PROS
-Nets card advantage
-Makes toolboxing more appealing
-Sneaks equipments into play through a wall of countermagic

CONS
-There aren't so many good equipments to abuse its power
-Makes you reliant on cards which occasionally get stuck into your hand
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I still don't know if this card can be playable, I'm almost certain that besides Angel Stompy, it won't see much play. It is granted for all of us to never see the card on the higher table unless collective conscience decides it is time to play AS again. Nice card design, though.

[freakish777]

stuff about card advantage


You have to remember not all card advantage is created equal. I would argue that unless this guy had 2+ power (a 2/1) or had 5+ toughness (1/5?) he's really not worth playing. Sure, he goes and gets a piece of equipment, and gives you a creature to actually attach it to. But the creature you're getting out of the deal sucks. Hard.

[Zilla]

You have to remember not all card advantage is created equal. I would argue that unless this guy had 2+ power (a 2/1) or had 5+ toughness (1/5?) he's really not worth playing. Sure, he goes and gets a piece of equipment, and gives you a creature to actually attach it to. But the creature you're getting out of the deal sucks. Hard.
It's important to note that you're talking about a deck that (at least in his case) is currently running Enlightened Tutor. The deck really wants to find its equipment. The fact that it's a body to attach it to, is card advantage rather than Tutor's card and tempo disadvantage, and can sneak it into play under a counterwall, and you have a pretty strong card indeed. Unfortunately it doesn't find Oblivion Ring, Parallax Wave, etc., but I think its advantages probably outweigh its disadvantages by a pretty significant margin.

It may not be an amazing card in a vacuum, but in the context of Angel Stompy I think it's pretty damn strong.

[Jon Stewart]

His ability is similar to Trinket Mage in some respects, (you can get silver bullets Rocket Boots (Lightning Greaves) or Jitte in some situations, SOFI or SOLS in others) but the cards he gets are more aggressive than disruptive (Chalice, Relic, Tormod's, EE etc).

The 2cc makes him playable in white weenie and even zoo type decks. But another point is that his ability "1W, tap: Put an Equipment card from your hand onto the battlefield." also can provide mana advantage by fetching very powerful high cc equipment, that cost little to equip.

[FoolofaTook]

Basilisk Collar 1
Artifact - Equipment (rare)
Equipped creature has deathtouch and lifelink.
Equip 2

It only bears mentions because it's tutorable with Trinket Mage, which is nice for when a single Tombstalker or Mystic Enforcer is holding back an entire army of Sea Stompy flyers, or just if you don't need a Chalice for whatever reason. Elves might appreciate being able to give their puny creatures deathtouch. Hell even giving Trinket Mage both Deathtouch and Lifelink kinda sorta makes it an actual threat! It also resolves Goyf vs. Goyf stalemates and giving Goyf lifelink is just straight up cruel.

I think for the reasons you mentioned the collar is actually a fairly strong card, although not at jitte's level. I'd play it as a 1-of in most decks that employed Trinket Mage and any significant level of other creatures. Equipment that was worth fetching with a Trinket Mage has been absent from the meta to date, this is finally a piece you can make an argument for.

[Forbiddian]

You have to remember not all card advantage is created equal. I would argue that unless this guy had 2+ power (a 2/1) or had 5+ toughness (1/5?) he's really not worth playing. Sure, he goes and gets a piece of equipment, and gives you a creature to actually attach it to. But the creature you're getting out of the deal sucks. Hard.

The fact that he's "only" 1/2 really doesn't matter when you get an equipment out. Once you have a good equipment on the table, the only important thing is to have a creature, any creature, and it will trump Tombstalker, Tarmogoyf, whatever.


The most important thing is that this card solves one of the main problems against :U: based archetypes: equipments tend to be countered, and then they overwhelm our little army of weenies with huge, cheap monsters.

Uhm... won't they just counter the 1/2 and it's the same thing? If you could counter this, why would you possibly let it resolve. At the very least you'd just be countering the EQ they got later and then have to handle the 1/2.

[eq.firemind]

Uhm... won't they just counter the 1/2 and it's the same thing?
Many decks that run white, creatures and equips also run Aether Vial... So it is the fuckcountermagic cycle. Anyway, I'll get 4 foil ones just 'cause I love the card.
Also, Basilisk Collar seems to be good in that WW decks 'cause they run some 2/2 First Strikers for :w::w: and you can now fetch it.

[Gheizen64]

Collar is really good imho. Deathtouch means first strike creature destroy everything on sight, right?.
Also, this is similar to jitte in some ways. Lifelink is the life gain part, and deathtouch is the buff creature/destroy creature part. 1 Mana less means also fetchable by trinket mage... Good stalemates breaker for sure.

[Guevera59]

What's with the hate on the new wasteland? Of course it won't be played in legacy, and I'm perfectly okay with that. It's unhealthy for a format to have 8 playable wastelands; 43 Land and Stax would dominate. The new waste is playable in type 2. Hitting tri lands or man-lands is clearly what it is designed to do and that's just how it will be played: to keep Jund in check.

[BreathWeapon]

The Basilisk Collar is really, really good in either Trinket Mage based aggro-control, Faerie Stompy or Affownity, an equipment that wins the Tarmogoyf on Tarmogoyf wars and forces the exchange thru' Lifelink outracing the opposing threats is kind of absurd.

[Forbiddian]

Collar is really good imho. Deathtouch means first strike creature destroy everything on sight, right?.
Also, this is similar to jitte in some ways. Lifelink is the life gain part, and deathtouch is the buff creature/destroy creature part. 1 Mana less means also fetchable by trinket mage... Good stalemates breaker for sure.

It's certainly not a Jitte. For one, they can choose not to block and just lose two life. With Jitte, you machine gun their troops no matter what, so they're under severe pressure to wipe your team or answer the Jitte immediately. With this, they can just take beats for a while, no biggie.

This also has the same vulnerability (namely they can kill the equipped creature). At that point, it has the same reequip cost as Jitte.

Also, there aren't very many good first strikers, and all of them are better with Jitte anyway.




Many decks that run white, creatures and equips also run Aether Vial... So it is the fuckcountermagic cycle. Anyway, I'll get 4 foil ones just 'cause I love the card.

Yeah, he was talking exclusively about Angel Stompy. I think he even says a few times that SFM will never see play anywhere else (according to him). But yeah, for all the other decks, it's a really good point that he owns with Vial, and I think one that will make SFM a popular card in the coming months.

[Barook]

It's certainly not a Jitte. For one, they can choose not to block and just lose two life. With Jitte, you machine gun their troops no matter what, so they're under severe pressure to wipe your team or answer the Jitte immediately. With this, they can just take beats for a while, no biggie.
The Collar can be better on stuff like Lavamancer or other creatures which have means to deal direct damage to creatures.

[Cire]

Wait!

Heres another card that goes well with Treasure Hunt!
Scouting Trek!

so for 2UG you draw all the basics in your library.

I know not that impresive but im sure there is something you can do with all that land in your hand....

Assualt, Zombie infestation, Manabond + Vesuva in play, Reliquary Tower + Lightning storm...

-------

Also on the Collar

Im sure there will be decks that will play

4 Trinket mage
4 Mystic
2 Jitte
1 Collar

Along with the usual draw, control and tool box package

[arebennian]

Thada Adel, Acquisitor 1UU
Legendary Creature - Merfolk Rogue (rare)
Islandwalk
Whenever Thada Adel, Acquisitor deals combat damage to a player, search that player's library for an artifact card and exile it. Then that player shuffles his or her library. Until end of turn, you may play that card.
2/2

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=4863843

[Aggro_zombies]

Thada Adel, Acquisitor 1UU
Legendary Creature - Merfolk Rogue (rare)
Islandwalk
Whenever Thada Adel, Acquisitor deals combat damage to a player, search that player's library for an artifact card and exile it. Then that player shuffles his or her library. Until end of turn, you may play that card.
2/2

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=4863843
All your Tops are belong to me...

[Guevera59]

New merfolk sees very very very win-more. It's good against decks that play islands and Tops, which are already great match-ups.

[from Cairo]

New merfolk sees very very very win-more. It's good against decks that play islands and Tops, which are already great match-ups.

I agree it doesn't seem great in Legacy. It definitely might be playable in Vintage fish, what with all the Time Vaults and Voltaic Keys running rampant. Rootwater Theif might just be better though as it's less restrictive (like pulling Iona or w/e vs Oath; Tendrils vs Storm, etc) and while it requires more investment, it attacks a turn earlier which is pretty relevant.

[xTrainx]

Definately going to go to the prerelease.

Lots of fun, interesting cards that seem to be floating around.

[FoolofaTook]

Also on the Collar

Im sure there will be decks that will play

4 Trinket mage
4 Mystic
2 Jitte
1 Collar

Along with the usual draw, control and tool box package

I don't see why decks playing Trinket Mage and enough creatures to make equipment viable would need or want to play jittes if they decided to have one piece of fetchable equipment in the mix.

Jitte has never seemed to do all that well in decks with Trinket Mage, at least partly because it was not fetchable and so by including it over fetchable artifacts you lowered the synergy the deck was getting out of Trinket Mage.

I figure the likely configuration might be 3x Trinket Mage, 3x Sensei's Divining Top, 2x Engineered Explosives, 1x Basilisk Collar, alongside 4x Tarmogoyf, 4x Counterbalance and whatever other 5 to 7 creatures made the deck work effectively as aggro-control. Then the Basilisk Collar winds up resolving goyf stalemates for you and making your Trinket Mages into effective blockers and racers in the endgame if you had the need.

[rufus]

New merfolk sees very very very win-more. It's good against decks that play islands and Tops, which are already great match-ups.

You could also use it to pull artifacts out of the opponent's deck and not cast them, and cursed scroll/jitte isn't so bad to pull vs Zoo, I think the issue is more that if you're getting home with a 3 cc fish in Merfolk odds are you're already winning.

OTOH, this guy could plausibly be decent in some other deck, since the effect is very strong.

[Aggro_zombies]

You could also use it to pull artifacts out of the opponent's deck and not cast them, and cursed scroll/jitte isn't so bad to pull vs Zoo, I think the issue is more that if you're getting home with a 3 cc fish in Merfolk odds are you're already winning.

OTOH, this guy could plausibly be decent in some other deck, since the effect is very strong.
There aren't many decks in Legacy that play relevant artifacts. He seems more of a Vintage card for some sort of hate Fish deck.

[whienot]

There aren't many decks in Legacy that play relevant artifacts. He seems more of a Vintage card for some sort of hate Fish deck.

This. It seems like an attempt to address the Time Vault issue in Vintage. I think Magus of the Unseen is better in that regard, but the new Merfolk offers variety. EDIT: Scratch that, this guy proactively shits in your opponent's cornflakes. Vintage wants this fishy.

Basilisk Collar looks awesome. Bitterblossom plays nicely with the equipment, as does first strike. Mother of Runes seems pretty hot with the collar, too.

Searing Blaze is another playable burn spell. Too bad it takes RR and landfall to be awesome. Not something you want to topdeck.

[rufus]

I'd Initially misread Selective Memory as a second rate Mana Severance. Now I find myself wondering if there's potential for it in some kind of doomsday/belcher style deck approach.



Selective Memory
Sorcery 3U (Rare)
Search your library for any number of nonland cards and exile them.
Then shuffle your library.

[AngryTroll]

I'd Initially misread Selective Memory as a second rate Mana Severance. Now I find myself wondering if there's potential for it in some kind of doomsday/belcher style deck approach.
The better combo is to post the card text when discussing brand new cards that no one has mentioned yet.


Eye of Ugin
Legendary Land
Colorless Eldrazi spells cost 2 less to cast.
7,Tap: Search your library for a colorless creature card, reveal it and put it in your hand. Then shuffle your library.

What does this mean? Does Eldrazi monument count?

[Aggro_zombies]

It means that Rise of the Eldrazi has a colorless theme.

[arebennian]

It also means that Eldrazi will probably be an Artifact type.

Artifact - Equipment
Artifact - Eldrazi

Otherwise, how else do you define what an Eldrazi spell is?

[Phoenix Ignition]

It also means that Eldrazi will probably be an Artifact type.

Artifact - Equipment
Artifact - Eldrazi

Otherwise, how else do you define what an Eldrazi spell is?

My guess is something like they did in Champions with Arcane spells. Along the lines of:
http://www.cardkingdom.com/media/images/products/max/111905_1.jpg

[MMogg]

It also means that Eldrazi will probably be an Artifact type.

Artifact - Equipment
Artifact - Eldrazi

Otherwise, how else do you define what an Eldrazi spell is?

This is probably a stupid question but does "colorless" automatically mean "artifact"? Could they not begin printing colorless instants/sorceries/creatures that aren't artifacts? That would be cool if they ever did that, and I think it's just a matter of time.

[Aggro_zombies]

http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=136044&type=card

They already did that.

[Mark Sun]

http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=136044&type=card

They already did that.

Yeah, I was actually disappointed when they didn't make the Eye of Ugin actually relate to the spell of Ghostfire. It is pretty cool though, I was a huge fan of Time Spiral block.

But yes, I think it'll be like Alara Reborn style, but this time without colors! :cry:

[Bigface]

Talking about the new Merfolk: imagine this scenery when playing against Nought decks.

Turn 3: Play this guy.
Turn 4: Attack, damage to opponent, steal Nought, play it, Stifle its ability.

He has 1 Nought less and you have a 12/12 trampler to help your army.
Also great against every deck that runs Trinket Mage.

[MMogg]

http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=136044&type=card

They already did that.

I mean truly colorless not as in has the text "this spell is colorless". I mean the mana cost is also completely colorless as well.

[Infinitium]

Hasn't MaRo already goblined that Eldrazi are a colorless creature type? The colorless clause on the land is probably just to keep Changeling spells from benefitting and possibly to hint on the upcoming set.

[Jon Stewart]

Hasn't MaRo already goblined that Eldrazi are a colorless creature type?

Why is this neccesary. There are already plenty of colorless creatures. Couldn't they have just make Eldrazi a subtype of Artifact creatures.

[Maagler]

GEE GEE GEE, BABY BABY BABY

Its like I'm really a lawnmower

Go ahead, TACCOM.

Is it just me or does the flavortext at MTGS really suck balls?

Although from what I understand the last one is a starcraft refrence.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

wouldn't an Eldrazi instant/sorcery be like Tribal Instant - Eldrazi ? and the the non-creature artifacts be Tribal Artifact - Eldrazi ? I don't see them doing something like arebennian said.

I love looking back at Future Sight cards and reading their flavor.


EDIT: MTGS' flavor seems to be inside jokes amongst staff, or maybe i just font get them. The flavor on that Sphinx has to be Starcraft, but why would they quote the dropship and not the battlecruiser? 8/7 flier? dude, that thing is a battlecruiser.

[Jon Stewart]

Is pure lifegain finally good enough to be playable in legacy sideboards/maindecks?

Rest for the Weary
1W
Instant Common
You gain 4 life.
Landfall - If you had a land enter the battlefield under your control this turn, you gain 8 life instead

Gaining 8 life for two mana seems pretty strong even in legacy. Basically buys you two extra turns against aggro decks. I've chump blocked away with 1W cc creatures for a whole lot less than 8 life.

Edit: I guess it's comparable to...

Martyr of Sands W
Creature - Human Cleric Common
1, Reveal X white cards from your hand, Sacrifice Martyr of Sands: You gain three times X life.
"Only in our vulnerability is there true power, and that power is life itself."
Illus. Randy Gallegos 1/1

Except that you don't need to play it super early (so that you have three white cards in hand to give you 9 life),
you're not limited to playing it in a mono white deck,
you can surprise your opponent with it when they go all in to kill you in one turn,
and you don't have to show your opponent you whole hand just to play it.

Then again, Martyr of Sands could also chump block. So it's almost a tossup if your deck is mono white.

[TorpidNinja]

Is it just me or does the flavortext at MTGS really suck balls?

Although from what I understand the last one is a starcraft refrence.

Probably intentionally so for instances when other websites grab spoilers without attribution.

Edit: Also, Rest for the Weary looks like it'll make for some very tedious games in limited.

[Gheizen64]

Martyr block opponent's Goyf: + 4 Life
Martyr show 3 white cards: +9 life

That's an easy +13 there. The W casting cost also:

- make it easier to play against countermagic/mana denial
- make it recurrable via that white card that return 1cc creature to play

Martyr is still the better card by far.

[Jon Stewart]

Martyr is the better card only if you...

a.) play a monowhite deck (and lets face it, there's maybe 1-2 viable mono white decks in legacy total)
b.) draw and play the Martyr early on, while you still have several white cards in hand
c.) don't mind showing your opponent mostly your whole hand and thus relaying to them exactly what your next several turns will look like

Just that first condition alone (Martyr being restricted to mono white decks) makes the two cards very different.

Also, if you're worried about countermagic, being instant speed is a much bigger deal than the casting cost.

[TheCramp]

I will totally berserk a Abyssal Persecutor. That or Maelstrom Pulse the two I am crushing you with.

[Darkenslight]

FYI, there's a non-artifact colourless creature in Worldwake. It's a 2-mana 1/1 with a non-sorcery speed Skyshroud Ranger effect added on.

[tyleredw]

Is it just me or does the flavortext at MTGS really suck balls?

Although from what I understand the last one is a starcraft refrence.

I actually enjoy the fake flavor texts they make usually. It's always entertaining when you understand the references.

"GEE GEE GEE, BABY BABY BABY"

This one is a line from a popular Korean song by SNSD called Gee, poking at the fact that he costs GGG to play.

That one and the Starcraft one made me chuckle a bit when i first saw them. :laugh:

[Apex]

EDIT: MTGS' flavor seems to be inside jokes amongst staff, or maybe i just font get them. The flavor on that Sphinx has to be Starcraft, but why would they quote the dropship and not the battlecruiser? 8/7 flier? dude, that thing is a battlecruiser.

It's actually the quote from the Goliath, hence "Goliath Sphinx".

Yeah...I play too much starcraft (note present tense too :().

[Maveric78f]

The best lifegain spell is Hide/Seek.

[Jon Stewart]

The best lifegain spell is Hide/Seek.

Considering that many legacy decks have a curve that tops off at 3. How could that possibly be true? It's not as if removing one card from someone's library is going to significantly decrease the odds of that person drawing that card. This isn't vintage, where there is such a thing as a restricted list. The only possible scenario where Seek is worthwhile is against NO Prog decks.

But yeah, I would play Hide/Seek in a RBW deck, but primarily for the Hide ability rather than the Seek ability.

[Maveric78f]

Not the subject but:

Hide/Seek gains 6 life against Burn and Zoo. In addition, Hide/Seek deals with Sylvan Library and Sulfuric Vortex.
Hide/Seek is better than Disenchant against Enchantress (Replenish/Karmic Justice).
Hide/Seek is a kill against ANT.
Hide/Seek makes fizzle NO.
Hide/Seek can force the opponent shuffle his deck (owns Tutors).
Contrarily to this new card, Hide/Seek gains 6 life as an instant when the other one must most of the time play it as a sorcery to gain 8 life (or it has to fetch and therefore, it gains only 7 life).

In the relevant MUs, when this new card gains 8 life, Hide/Seek gains 6 life. But Hide/Seek does so much more... Even considering the simple burn MU.

So:
In monoW, Martyr is better.
In WB, Seek is better.
In WG, Heroes' Reunionis better.
In WU, well... BEB is probably better.
In general, Circle: Red is better.

[Valdez]

Not the subject but:

Hide/Seek gains 6 life against Burn and Zoo.

bullshit.

[Mark Sun]

bullshit.

I really couldn't tell if you were joking. :eyebrow: 4RR =/= cmc 6?

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Zoo dosent play Fireblast!

[Nidd]

Zoo dosent play Fireblast!
You don't play against Zoo.

[Nessaja]

Fireblast usually means you're playing against Goyf Sligh... but that's such a thin line lately.

[kitsunewarlock]

Martyr of Sands isn't limited to mono-white decks...there's plenty of good white hybrid/multicolor cards...

And you could go Turn 2 Painter's Servant...

But that's neither here nor there...

If you want life gain so badly, there was always Hero's Reunion. 2 colors, but 7 life for 2 mana without the need for landfall. Ironically the best life gain card is still mono-blue...Illusions of Grandeur...

Also, I always assumed Ghostfire was just a reference to the Mirage/Visions enchantment that makes burn colorless...apparently "Ugin the Spirit Dragon" is more than meets the eye? Does "Legendary Creature - Eldrazi Spirit Dragon" fit in the modern card template? I'd be angry (as an EDH player) if we find out the Eldrazi aren't going to be Legendary (like the Nephilim)...

[Otter]

I really couldn't tell if you were joking. :eyebrow: 4RR =/= cmc 6?

Not all Zoo plays Fireblast, a good lot of them go for the Bolt/Chain/Helix burn setup. Against those versions Seek is going to gain you three life from pulling a KotR or Thoctar, at best.

[Forbiddian]

Is it just me or does the flavortext at MTGS really suck balls?

Although from what I understand the last one is a starcraft refrence.

"Go ahead, TACCOM" made me crack up.

Comlink online.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Is pure lifegain finally good enough to be playable in legacy sideboards/maindecks?

Rest for the Weary
1W
Instant Common
You gain 4 life.
Landfall - If you had a land enter the battlefield under your control this turn, you gain 8 life instead

Gaining 8 life for two mana seems pretty strong even in legacy. Basically buys you two extra turns against aggro decks. I've chump blocked away with 1W cc creatures for a whole lot less than 8 life.

Edit: I guess it's comparable to...

Martyr of Sands W
Creature - Human Cleric Common
1, Reveal X white cards from your hand, Sacrifice Martyr of Sands: You gain three times X life.
"Only in our vulnerability is there true power, and that power is life itself."
Illus. Randy Gallegos 1/1

Except that you don't need to play it super early (so that you have three white cards in hand to give you 9 life),
you're not limited to playing it in a mono white deck,
you can surprise your opponent with it when they go all in to kill you in one turn,
and you don't have to show your opponent you whole hand just to play it.

Then again, Martyr of Sands could also chump block. So it's almost a tossup if your deck is mono white.

Martyr of Sands is played in decks that have ways to get him back. And he averages 12-15 life not including blocks in those decks.

Lifegain is good when it's attached to something ala Lightning Helix, Kitchen Finks. Lifegain by itself is a bad bad timewalk.

[Infinitium]

Nature's Claim - G

Instant Common
Destroy target artifact or enchantment. Its controller gains 4 life.

This is good. Granted it doesn't deal with CounterTop or Chalice@1 and is an eh answer to Trinisphere, and the decks in color would probably rather run Pridemage or Deed but.. it -is- ridiciculosly underpriced.

[eq.firemind]

Nature's Claim - G

Instant Common
Destroy target artifact or enchantment. Its controller gains 4 life.
WOW, Kavu Predator would love this!

[MMogg]

This is good. Granted it doesn't deal with CounterTop or Chalice@1 and is an eh answer to Trinisphere, and the decks in color would probably rather run Pridemage or Deed but.. it -is- ridiciculosly underpriced.

LOL, yeah, that was a lot of "and"s. Good for Highlander. That's the trouble with Legacy, there are just too many good cards vying for very few places in decks and this slot is already quite full.

[rufus]

Is anyone else wondering whether we'll see anything more novel from the multikicker mechanic?

[Forbiddian]

Wow, Nature's Claim looks like it will see some play eventually.

It's not an answer to Counterbalance or Chalice @ 1 (or better than Kgrip against 3sphere), but it's 2 mana cheaper than Kgrip, so it's a nice addition to the repertoire of answers in Legacy.

[dahcmai]

Horizon Drake (U) http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana1.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif
Flying, protection from lands
3/1




This actually sucks for 43 Lands. There's not much way to kill the thing aside from using EE. Kind of amusing and probably actually good against the deck. I play 43 Lands and can't think of a real good way to kill this thing quickly aside from praying you can catch them with a Tabernacle and a wastelanded board.

[Nihil Credo]

Horizon Drake (U) http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana1.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif
Flying, protection from lands
3/1

This actually sucks for 43 Lands. There's not much way to kill the thing aside from using EE. Kind of amusing and probably actually good against the deck. I play 43 Lands and can't think of a real good way to kill this thing quickly aside from praying you can catch them with a Tabernacle and a wastelanded board.
Glacial Chasm lock also stops the Drake beats. Considering you'll only see it very rarely, and probably only right now that the card is new and Lands is popular, I wouldn't go prepare specifically for it.

[Shugyosha]

Horizon Drake (U) http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana1.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif
Flying, protection from lands
3/1

This actually sucks for 43 Lands. There's not much way to kill the thing aside from using EE. Kind of amusing and probably actually good against the deck. I play 43 Lands and can't think of a real good way to kill this thing quickly aside from praying you can catch them with a Tabernacle and a wastelanded board.

I would rather play Back to Basics against Lands. Sure BTB cannot attack but this guy is by far worse than Vendillion Clique against most decks in comparison to Vendilion Clique which can hit problem cards in every matchup. The only boarderline good thing is that it blocks manlands but I think this will be rarely relevant.

[Shawon]

Horizon Drake (U) http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana1.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif
Flying, protection from lands
3/1




This actually sucks for 43 Lands. There's not much way to kill the thing aside from using EE. Kind of amusing and probably actually good against the deck. I play 43 Lands and can't think of a real good way to kill this thing quickly aside from praying you can catch them with a Tabernacle and a wastelanded board.

Firebolt... or more effectively, Flame Jab/Glacial Chasm

[arebennian]

Permafrost Trap 2UU
Instant - Trap
If an opponent had a green creature enter the battlefield under his or her control this turn, you may pay U rather than pay Permafrost Trap's mana cost.
Tap up to two target creatures. Those creatures don't untap during their controller's next untap step.


Does this beat out Submerge?

[MMogg]

Permafrost Trap 2UU
Instant - Trap
If an opponent had a green creature enter the battlefield under his or her control this turn, you may pay U rather than pay Permafrost Trap's mana cost.
Tap up to two target creatures. Those creatures don't untap during their controller's next untap step.


Does this beat out Submerge?

First impression is no way in hell. Submerge loses them their next draw and forces them to recast the threat allowing you a chance to counter if you wanted. The only advantage I can see is that with submerge they could recast a creature and use it as a blocker, whereas with this trap you get two attacks with their creatures tapped.

[arebennian]

Just thought I would put it up.
Seemed good for Merfolk to tap down Goyf and Monk for 2 turns.
Also doesn't interact as well with Standstill.

[conboy31]

Well, the entire set is now up at mtgsalvation. Here is my top 10 in no particular order:
Loam Lion
Stoneforge Mystic
Jace the Mind sculptor
Treasure Hunt
Nature's Claim
Lodestone Golem
Amulet of Vigor
Basilisk Collar
Bojuka Bog
Creeping Tar pits

Honorable mention: Explore/ Kor Firewalker / Omnath, Locus of Mana / Arbor Elf / Thada Adel, Acquisitor / Abyssal Persecutor

[Barook]

Thoughts on this as a defensive drop against aggro?

Perimeter Captain :w:
Creature - Human Soldier
Defender
Whenever a creature you control with defender blocks, you may gain 2 life.
0/4

It's cheap, bolt-proof and even better in multiples.

[Nightmare]

Thoughts on this as a defensive drop against aggro?

Perimeter Captain :w:
Creature - Human Soldier
Defender
Whenever a creature you control with defender blocks, you may gain 2 life.
0/4

It's cheap, bolt-proof and even better in multiples.

What deck wants this?

[rufus]

Thoughts on this as a defensive drop against aggro?
...
It's cheap, bolt-proof and even better in multiples.

Because Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares are too hard to come by? I struggle to understand why you'd ever want to play this over any number of other cards.

[dahcmai]

Sadly all in all, this isn't much of a Legacy or Vintage players set. Dispel and the Firewalker are the only ones I really think will survive the initial hype and stick around to play. Even in those two cases it's a limited amount of things that would want those cards.

[MMogg]

Well, the entire set is now up at mtgsalvation. Here is my top 10 in no particular order:
Loam Lion
Stoneforge Mystic
Jace the Mind sculptor
Treasure Hunt
Nature's Claim
Lodestone Golem
Amulet of Vigor
Basilisk Collar
Bojuka Bog
Creeping Tar pits

Honorable mention: Explore/ Kor Firewalker / Omnath, Locus of Mana / Arbor Elf / Thada Adel, Acquisitor / Abyssal Persecutor

No <3 for Dispel? Might see play.

This set looks like a lot of decent cards that just don't surpass current Legacy staples. I guess Loam Lion is one of the only creatures that will see play and only marginally since Kird Ape has his proverbial bags packed and is ready to leave the Zoo as soon as a slightly better creature emerges to take his place.

Bazaar Trader looks like lots of fun in casual play.

[Kuma]

Kor Firewalker: Arguably better than Silver Knight which is a marginal creature in White Weenie, the only deck that runs it. Will see a little play in White Weenie lists.

Loam Lion: Arguably better than Kird Ape which is a marginal creature in Zoo. Probably won't see much play in Zoo since most lists are moving towards running Steppe Lynx in the final creature slot.

Stoneforge Mystic: Best white card in the set. White Weenie will run this guy, and he might find a place in any white deck with multiple pieces of equipment. Allows Survival lists to "Survival" for Umezawa's Jitte.

Dispel: Might see some play, but Spell Snare and Spell Pierce are usually better cards.

Jace, the Mind Sculptor: People will play him for a while until they realize how awful he is. Maybe gets used as a one-of in Ultimate Walker. Maybe.

Thada Adel, Acquisitor: Seems like a "win more" card for Merfolk, since they're already strong against CounterTop. Could be useful in the mirror match to pull out Jittes and Aether Vials.

Treasure Hunt: The best blue card in the set. Lands.dec will try this out, and it will be present in the archetype for a while. People compare it to Mulch, which was found to be wanting, but this card is much much better than Mulch. In a format with Brainstorm, Ponder, and Sensei's Divining Top it could see play outside of Lands.dec, but don't count on it.

Abyssal Persecutor: The best black card in the set. What seems like a terrible drawback is surprisingly manageable. Demon Stompy (Black Chalice Aggro) lists will run him alongside cards like Braids, Cabal Minion, Contamination, Grafted Wargear, and Fleshbag Maurauder. The deck probably still isn't viable, (unban Mind Twist!) but it definitely got a shot in the arm.

Death's Shadow: There aren't a lot of good ways to use this guy right now. (I think. He gets -X/-X in all zones, right?) Maybe some sort of creature toolbox deck could tutor him up in the late game as a huge beater, but he's likely too situational even for a toolbox deck.

Quest for the Nihil Stone: This might see play in some kind of Suicide Black deck, but it's probably too slow. Pox might run it, except that when they're blowing up lands they're helping their opponents keep cards in their hands.

Bazaar Trader: There's probably a million combos with this guy, but none of them are Legacy viable. Even if there was a viable combo with him, the deck would be as good as Cephalid Breakfast, tops.

Chain Reaction: I can't think of a single deck that wants a red Wrath of God, and this isn't even a red Wrath of God.

Dragonmaster Outcast: Cool card in search of a deck.

Kazuul, Tyrant of Cliffs: Will see play at least as a one-of in Dragon Stompy. This guy is better against aggro than Arc-Slogger, and Arc-Slogger is in-fucking-credible against aggro.

Ricochet Trap: Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast are better than this in probably 95% of cases, but it does serve a purpose. Redirecting Submerge is hilarious, and has the possibility of redirecting StP or burn. Also reads "Counter target counterspell." I doubt this sees significant play over red blasts.

Searing Blaze: The best red card in the set. This card has strong potential in Zoo. Given the way Zoo lists are moving to accommodate Steppe Lynx, this will read "Kill your blocker and deal three to you" most of the time. The :r::r: casting cost shouldn't be problematic for Zoo.

Arbor Elf: In multi-colored decks, this guy is better than Llanowar Elves and Fyndhorn Elves, but falls short of Noble Hierarch and possible Birds of Paradise. There's also potential for abuse with Wild Growth effects, but don't count on that ever being relevant. Aggro Elf and Elf Survival lists that splash a color will run him. The Wasteland drawback is much less relevant than it has been made out to be. As long as you have a basic land, he's identical to Llanowar Elves. Wasteland just stops him from being better.

Explore: I can see it in slow control decks like Train Wreck and Truffle Shuffle. That's about it.

Joraga Warcaller: Might see play as a one or two-of in Elves, but I don't think you want it over an Elvish Archdruid, Elvish Champion, or Imperious Perfect most of the time.

Leatherback Baloth: The best green card in the set. This guy is no Tarmogoyf, but he's damn close. Might see play in MGCA, Bant Aggro and any deck that can reasonably support :g::g::g:.

Nature's Claim: This is the most overrated card in the set. Doesn't deal with Counterbalance or Chalice, and giving your opponent life will keep it out of aggro decks. It will see play in The Cure, but who still runs that deck?

Terastodon: May see play in some reanimator lists, but Woodfall Primus, Admonition Angel, and Angel of Dispair are better for handling problem permanents. However, you could blow up some of your lands and swing for 18...

Novablast Wurm: Sneak Attack? Nope, that deck still isn't viable.

Amulet of Vigor: Great with Time Vault... Oh wait, that's banned.

Basilisk Collar: An impressive piece of Trinket Mageable equipment. Better than that god-awful Sigil of Distinction. Likely ends up as a one-of in Faerie Stompy.

Lodestone Golem: Stax might want this guy, but I have my doubts.

Bojuka Bog: Undiscardable graveyard hate seems great against Ichorid. Might see some play in Lands.dec variants to help with the Ichorid matchup.

Smoldering Spires: This will see play in hyper-aggressive Goblin decks that really want to connect a Lackey or Instigator at all costs. It can't even be countered. Hell, it might end up in all Goblin lists.

Manlands: Could see play in Lands.dec, but I don't think any of them are significantly better than what they've got. Might be the end of Treetop Village.

[Anusien]

Death's Shadow: There aren't a lot of good ways to use this guy right now. (I think. He gets -X/-X in all zones, right?) Maybe some sort of creature toolbox deck could tutor him up in the late game as a huge beater, but he's likely too situational even for a toolbox deck.
He's a 13/13 in all zones except for the battlefield, where he gets -X/-X.

[Digital Devil]

When I first saw Dispel, I though "OMFG". Then I realised for the same cost there is Spell Snare. I then thought about storm based combo. But why would a combo player pack Dispel instead of Spell Pierce, since for the same cost it can counter Chalice/Trinisphere/Thorn of Amethyst, too? Kor Firewalker looks like Silver Knight 2.0, and is a beat against decks which heavily rely on burn. But I'm not impressed by Kor Firewalker, since it has a marginal use. My favourite Worldwake card is Stoneforge Mystic. Card advantage for white is a great thing on its own: it's deadly in the first turns of the game (fetching for Jitte), and even deadlier in the late game (Sword of Fire and Ice makes it a 3/4 who doubles as critter removal and card draw - 3 damage + the triggered ability make a 5 point slap in your opponent's face, making Mystic a pseudo-endgame-Goyf). It certainly will see play, at least in my deck =)

[Hopo]

Doesn't anyone elsee see a new archetype coming with Amulet of Vigor and Root Maze? It seems to me that Root Maze is the most obvious companion for amulet, vigorously disrupting every single deck out there, except dredge and elves.

[MMogg]

http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/tcg/products/worldwake/18olxegvb8_EN.jpg

"Stop, drop, shut 'em down open up shop. Oh no that's how Ruff Ryders roll!"

Seriously, wtf is with the art? :laugh:

[eq.firemind]

This (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?15754-[Worldwake]-Set-Discussion-Thread&p=421497&viewfull=1#post421497) is the first time Stoneforge Mystic was spoiled on Source
Now, this (http://cgi.ebay.com/MTG-STONEFORGE-MYSTIC-x4-WorldWake-Presale_W0QQitemZ300391250505QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45f0b6ba49) is the card from E-Bay presales.
Is that only me, or there's no tap symbol in his ability???
I mean, if it's true, the card is insane beyond means (especially with acceleration like Moxes and Tombs)...

[TheCramp]

That is a mockup, look at the artist line of the card. Could be wrong. If correct, it is sick with vile.

[Atwa]

Doesn't anyone elsee see a new archetype coming with Amulet of Vigor and Root Maze? It seems to me that Root Maze is the most obvious companion for amulet, vigorously disrupting every single deck out there, except dredge and elves.
Spend a little more mana but get the combo in 1 card: Try Kismet

Edit:
Now I'm thinking about it, that small combo does enable some sort of green stacks. Amulet, Root Maze (combined with Ankh of Mishra), add in Garruk For untap effects and as win wincondition, Tangle Wire and cards like Ice Storm and Thermokarst to disrupt them even more.

Root Maze + Ankh means 5 life and 2 turns to get mana of a fetch. Not a bad deal, specially if you can destroy it when it it in play tapped. If someone is going to build this deck, they'll have to play Choke in the side, that is just brutal. Add in a couple of Wastelands and Savannahs so you can play Enlightened Tutor and Ghostly Prison and you have a deck.

[FoolofaTook]

Root Maze is very under-rated in terms of the effect it can have in Legacy. I'm skeptical though that a deck could afford 4x Root Maze and 4x Amulet of Vigor and have any hope of surviving in the Legacy environment. You'd need to find very effective uses for Amulet of Vigor in the absence of Root Maze and I don't believe those exist at the power level of Legacy.

[Broham]

"Stop, drop, shut 'em down open up shop. Oh no that's how Ruff Ryders roll!"

Seriously, wtf is with the art? :laugh:

So, when you see a bulldog wearing a collar and harness made from a mythical beast you think of DMX? lolwut?

Anyways, I like the card alot and I'll try it out in my stompy deck. I don't really want to shell out for Jittes, and Basilisk Collar will make my little peon first strikers really scary. Also, I have a bulldog so I think this is just the coolest thing ever, the art wins!

[DownSyndromeKarl]

So, when you see a bulldog wearing a collar and harness made from a mythical beast you think of DMX? lolwut?


thats a rotweiler. dmx used rots in his videos. i see the connection.

[Shugyosha]

Dispel is actually quite good as it counters every relevant spotremoval spell in the format (other than Vindicate/Pulse obv.). Now BEB counters burnspells and is better against Goblins but does nothing against Swords/Path and combo and on top of that Dispell functions like a REB with a better mana cost in Counterwars.

All in all it comes down to which type of protection one needs in his Sideboard but I think Dispel belongs in the pool of cards like Spell Pierce, BEB, REB when considering SB options.

[FoulQ]

That is a mockup, look at the artist line of the card. Could be wrong. If correct, it is sick with vile.

If this isn't true, isn't that kind of illegal? They are saying they are selling a card with abilities that it doesn't actually have. That's like saying I'm selling a black lotus when I'm really selling a lotus petal to you.

And I agree that the basilisk collar art is atrocious.

[Angelfire]

If this isn't true, isn't that kind of illegal? They are saying they are selling a card with abilities that it doesn't actually have. That's like saying I'm selling a black lotus when I'm really selling a lotus petal to you.

And I agree that the basilisk collar art is atrocious.

It is unethical, but it really not much different than other presales on Ebay that end up different than the spoiler. The picture may be misleading, but it doesn't determine whether the card will see tons of play or none. If MTGS is wrong and he is right then nothing unethical/illegal has occurred.

When you are going to use an analogy don't over exaggerate. The difference a tap symbol makes on this card is not even 1% close to the difference between the value of Lotus Petal and Black Lotus.

[FoulQ]

It is unethical, but it really not much different than other presales on Ebay that end up different than the spoiler. The picture may be misleading, but it doesn't determine whether the card will see tons of play or none. If MTGS is wrong and he is right then nothing unethical/illegal has occurred.

When you are going to use an analogy don't over exaggerate. The difference a tap symbol makes on this card is not even 1% close to the difference between the value of Lotus Petal and Black Lotus.

I used that example not as a means of exagerration but as a means of simplicity, the easiest and most ubiquitous analogy of one card being better than another. I think everybody is aware that the gap is not quite the same with a tap symbol. But it could still make a significant difference in the card's price. I for one find it funny that below he says he "doesn't sell cards that are still being speculated on" and then he goes and takes out the tap symbol. To me that's somewhat foul.

[Forbiddian]

If this isn't true, isn't that kind of illegal? They are saying they are selling a card with abilities that it doesn't actually have. That's like saying I'm selling a black lotus when I'm really selling a lotus petal to you.

And I agree that the basilisk collar art is atrocious.

I don't think it's illegal, but grounds to leave negative feedback.

Ebay is basically buyer-beware, so I don't have any sympathy for peoeple who fall for this and choose to leave positive feedback anyway. I also have zero sympathy for the seller if the buyer leaves negative feedback when the cards show up with a tap symbol.

If you even threaten to leave negative feedback, a lot of buyers will refund you + pay the shipping back. Yeah, it costs them a couple bucks, but the negative feedback in the long run will affect them a lot more.


And yeah, the Basilisk Collar didn't remind me of DMX until he pointed it out. It's a dopey-looking dog trying to look badass. And btw, it's a Bulldog, not a Rottweiler. For one, Rottweilers are black/brown.

[arebennian]

And yeah, the Basilisk Collar didn't remind me of DMX until he pointed it out. It's a dopey-looking dog trying to look badass. And btw, it's a Bulldog, not a Rottweiler. For one, Rottweilers are black/brown.

I think the artist got his inspiration from the Pit Bull Terrier, rather than a Bulldog or Rottweiler.
http://www.google.com/search?q=pitt+bull+terrier&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7SKPB_en

http://www.google.com/search?q=bulldog&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7SKPB_en

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7SKPB_en&ei=IHpjS5_-G4WisgOIqZW6AQ&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CBMQBSgA&q=rottweiler&spell=1

[MMogg]

The complete visual spoiler is now up! (http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/worldwake/spoiler#)

Edit: Also, it's up on Gatherer. (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?set=[%22Worldwake%22])

[n00bas4urus_r3x]

Smother is hilarious. Tomb Hex also has some pretty sweet art. Damn I'm pumped for this set.

[majikal]

Drafting this set feels a lot like drafting Torment. Black is just way too good.

[Mark Sun]

Drafting this set feels a lot like drafting Torment. Black is just way too good.

I like blue as a support color, but green is the nuts in WWK, imo (Limited). That said, my green cards were garbage over the weekend, so after a ZWW draft and two sealed pools, I would up playing UB in each of them.

[TrialByFire]

I had a UW deck with some good cards in the sealed, but literally no removal except a Pitfall Trap and the Mythic Angel that removes shit from the game with Landfall. Sadly, never drew any of my bombs and lost to Turn 4 Emeria Angel twice and Gigantiform'ed Vampire Nighthawk twice. Pitfall Trap fail. Thats why I hate sealed. Although I do have to say that that 2 mana merfolk that's a 2/1 first strike lifelink if you control a plains is some good.

[Aggro_zombies]

Drafting this set feels a lot like drafting Torment. Black is just way too good.
This. Black is now clearly better than red and should probably be avoided when drafting.

[AngryTroll]

This. Black is now clearly better than red and should probably be avoided when drafting.

That doesn't actually make sense. Red should be avoided? Or Black should be? I don't understand.

[Bardo]

Smother is hilarious.

Man, I was really hoping to upgrade my ugly Onslaught Smothers with better art. So much for that.

[Aggro_zombies]

That doesn't actually make sense. Red should be avoided? Or Black should be? I don't understand.
Well, both of them, as black-red will be the best strategy by far unless you're in a pod full of noobs and thereby get the chance to draft mono-black. Red was chased after pretty hard in triple Zen, and so was black, so that ended up enabling a bunch of other marginal strategies.

As of right now, the best decks may be white-blue Allies, green-white Allies, and maybe Esper Allies. Mono-green with Allies is also pretty good. Red-black Allies is nutty if you get a chance to draft it. Red-white Allies didn't really gain anything from WWK but is still decent.

In short, draft Allies. They're exactly like Slivers, except even more annoying!

[dahcmai]

How does it feel for sealed so far? I only had one chance so far and didn't get much of anything to work with. My black seemed ok, but it's hard to tell from only one sitting.


Check out the prices of foils for this set. Wow.

[Aggro_zombies]

The formula for sealed is as follows:

[(# Allies not in blue) + (# playable black cards) + (# playable red cards)] / [(# total white cards) + (# total blue cards)] = % of matches you'll win

Sealed is, as ever, really dependent on bombs. Allies will make your deck a lot better, as will being in the good colors. White is pretty bad unless you have a god pool with tons of allies, blue is generally anemic but okay as a support color for black, black is stupidly good, red is really good, green is...well, it's green.

[MMogg]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=n8D3jQd4Z1M

Didn't know where to post this, so I decided to post it here. Is this not the most patronizing Magic video you have ever seen? Who exactly is this video aimed at? The mentally challenged? As a teacher, I don't think a good pedagogical tool is talking down to your students. If this video were really aimed at teaching somebody, they could do it a little less condescendingly.

What I find funniest is that the knowledge they assume viewers already know (what enchantments/graveyards/attacking/blocking/casting/etc. are) is nowhere to be found on the card, but the knowledge they assume we don't know is printed right on the card. :rolleyes:

[sco0ter]

At least it taught me, that 2 Zendikons enchanting one land complement each other in terms of creature types and abilities, but power/toughness and color are overridden... why is this so actually?

[DownSyndromeKarl]

because a creature can only have one P/T, but multiple abilities and types.

[TorpidNinja]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=n8D3jQd4Z1M If this video were really aimed at teaching somebody, they could do it a little less condescendingly.

Meh, pretty much consistent with how I've observed other MtG veterans teach Magic basics.

[sco0ter]

because a creature can only have one P/T, but multiple abilities and types.

yes, but it can have several colors.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

yes, but it can have several colors.

not if something over-rides it's color. Like Blood Moon says "Non-basic lands are mountains Period." and Tomb of Yawg says "Lands are swamps in addition to it's other types" The Zendikons say "this is Red Period" or "this is Black Period"

[rufus]

not if something over-rides it's color. Like Blood Moon says "Non-basic lands are mountains Period." and Tomb of Yawg says "Lands are swamps in addition to it's other types" The Zendikons say "this is Red Period" or "this is Black Period"

The thing is that the Zendikons have the creature type and color in the same clause, so that argument doesn't make sense. For example:

Enchanted land is a 3/3 black Ooze creature. It's still a land.

The fact is that type retention is treated differently than color retention:


204.1b Some effects change an object's card type, supertype, or subtype but specify that the object retains a prior card type, supertype, or subtype. In such cases, all the object's prior card types, supertypes, and subtypes are retained. This rule applies to effects that use the phrase "in addition to its types" or that state that something is "still a [card type]." Some effects state that an object becomes an "artifact creature"; these effects also allow the object to retain all of its prior card types and subtypes.
Example: An ability reads, "All lands are 1/1 creatures that are still lands." The affected lands now have two card types: creature and land. If there were any lands that were also artifacts before the ability's effect applied to them, those lands would become "artifact land creatures," not just "creatures," or "land creatures." The effect allows them to retain both the card type "artifact" and the card type "land."
Example: An ability reads, "All artifacts are 1/1 artifact creatures." If a permanent is both an artifact and an enchantment, it will become an "artifact enchantment creature."

[raudo]

I preordered many 4-sets cause now they are very cheap: Treasure Hunt, Bazaar Trader, Stoneforge Mystic, Lodestone Golem and Loam Lion.

I hope someones price will sky-rocket like Tarmos :)

[MMogg]

Woo hoo, cards are finally starting to appear for sale online here. So, what are people picking up for Legacy playsets/potential? Anything?

[majikal]

In all honesty, this is a pretty shitty set.

[Wargoos]

Woo hoo, cards are finally starting to appear for sale online here. So, what are people picking up for Legacy playsets/potential? Anything?

Set sucks pretty much.
Get a playset of Treasure Hunt's - a playset of stoneforger mythics and you're done :D

[MMogg]

Set sucks pretty much.
Get a playset of Treasure Hunt's - a playset of stoneforger mythics and you're done :D

Well, in addition to those two, I think I'm going to pick up Explore (because they're .60/play set and have potential use), Dispel, Bojuka Bog and Loam Lion.

I'm still on the fence about whether to pick up Smother to replace the Onslaught ones. I'm not sure which is nicer. New frames are growing on me more and more.

There are also a few Highlander worthy cards, like Nature's Claim, Arbor Elf and Rolling Terrain. :smile:

[xTrainx]

In terms of cards to pick up, these are my goals.

x4 Stoneforge Mystic
x4 Treasure Hunt
x4 Loam Lion
x4 Bojuka Bog
x4 Dispel
x4 Nature's Claim
x4 Explore
x4 Bazaar Trader
x4 Seijiri Merfolk
x4 Basilisk Collar

[Bardo]

In all honesty, this is a pretty shitty set.

.

[MMogg]

Nah, this is shit (http://www.cnyoutube.com/video/1q9HaBHtTF8/Me-opening-a-magic-the-gathering-booster-pack-revised.html). (Sorry, youtube is blocked here so I don't have the proper URL... you get my Chinese version.)

[Otter]

In terms of cards to pick up, these are my goals.

x4 Stoneforge Mystic
x4 Treasure Hunt
x4 Loam Lion
x4 Bojuka Bog
x4 Dispel
x4 Nature's Claim
x4 Explore
x4 Bazaar Trader
x4 Seijiri Merfolk
x4 Basilisk Collar

This is about what I'm going to pick up. I'd recommend 4x Arbor Elf too though, a Llanowar that can make other colors by untapping duals is going to find a home eventually. A set of Tectonic Edge probably wouldn't go amiss either, while it's sure as hell no Wasteland, I'd rather drop two dollars on them now and throw them in EDH decks than discover that a set costs $20 in five years and I need them for extended.

On a more risky note, I'm considering grabbing some Eye of Ugin. I obviously don't know what Eldrazi do, but if they're way out of the ordinary, it's possible that something in the legacy cardpool could have a weird interaction that breaks them. Of course, since the stupid things are mythic, they're a couple of bucks each at the moment. If it drops down to a dollar, I'm probably going to grab a few.

[MMogg]

On a more risky note, I'm considering grabbing some Eye of Ugin. I obviously don't know what Eldrazi do, but if they're way out of the ordinary, it's possible that something in the legacy cardpool could have a weird interaction that breaks them. Of course, since the stupid things are mythic, they're a couple of bucks each at the moment. If it drops down to a dollar, I'm probably going to grab a few.

I was thinking the same thing . . . until I saw they were selling them for about $6 here. :eyebrow: Now, for me that's the equivalent of 17 600ml bottles of Coca-Cola, or 17 large bowls of noodles for lunch in a restaurant. With that in mind . . . nah. There's too much of a track record of crap that's only cool in block constructed.

Completely agree with Arbor Elf, especially since he's common. Why not? :smile:

[Digital Devil]

I already bought my playset of Stoneforge Mystics. They look great.

[lolosoon]

I already bought my playset of Stoneforge Mystics. They look great.
Fixed.

Too few good cards for Legacy (which some will be included in current traditionnal lists or SB), and no new competitive archetype will be born from a card from this set imho.

Lodestone Golem + unbanning of MetalWorker is great news for 5/3 or MUD, still those decks won't become Tier1.x any soon.

But, hey, we could see some interesting ideas emerging from the N&D forum this month...

[AngryTroll]

In all honesty, this is a pretty shitty set.


In terms of cards to pick up, these are my goals.

Stoneforge Mystic
Treasure Hunt
Loam Lion
Bojuka Bog
Dispel
Nature's Claim
Explore
Bazaar Trader
Sejiri Merfolk
Basilisk Collar


Arbor Elf
Halimar Depths

That's a pretty impressive list of cards that might be playable in Legacy. Stoneforger Mystic and Treasure Hunt will certainly see some play; the rest of the cards on that list look decent enough to at least try out. That's 11 cards out of a small set that are at least worth picking up; that's pretty impressive. I'm not sold on Bazaar Trader, but if you see potential, go for it.

I think it is extremely interesting that that list contains almost half commons. Nothing on the list is bonkers, but there are a lot of solid commons that might find homes somewhere in the format. I kind of like Halimar Depths. It's like dropping an Island and activating Top...I wouldn't count it as a Ponder or as an Island, but it's somewhere in between the two. I might toss two or three of them into something to up the land count while smoothing draws. It'll certainly go into my EDH deck, at least.

[Arsenal]

Off-topic, but I didn't see anything in the Stickies. How do you do the cardtags?

[Digital Devil]

Fixed.
Actually, cheap card advantage in white is something you don't see that often. I'm currently playing only 3 copies, but the fourth one is relinquished into a box and screams to be included, too. Playing a deck like mine, it is the card I always want to see, and I don't care about multiple copies, either. To me it's the opposite thing as you say: while Mystics may look awful on paper, since I started real playtesting (not MWS) with them, I always want a Mystic in my 7.

[AngryTroll]

Off-topic, but I didn't see anything in the Stickies. How do you do the cardtags?

Find a post with card tags, and click "Reply with Quote" to see how it was done. Just kidding.

it's {cards} {/cards}. You can include numbers, but not x-es or anything like that.
5 Troll Ascetic (secret tech, but be careful not to play the fifth one) vs
5x Troll Ascetic