Blue/White "Dreaded Weenie"

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I just got the idea a few days ago to try to use Mother of Runes alongside Phyrexian Dreadnought.

This is just a rough list... I decided not to do the Dreadstill type of list with Counter/Top and Standstill, but that could be another conceivable option (and who knows, it might be a better idea than this is). I was trying to make this one more like a weenie deck with a twist... Let me know what you think.

LIST:

4 Mother of Runes
4 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Trinket Mage
2 Court Hussar

4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Windswept Heath
4 Tundra
2 Island
1 Plains

Sideboard I haven't even really thought about, but I'd include some hosers to fetch with Trinket Mage for sure. Not sure what else...

(The mana base probably needs work, and 18 lands might not be quite enough. Like I said, this list is untested so far. (Although since it shares some similarities with NoGoyf, I'd imagine it's probably about 75% against the field overall :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: ))

[DrewliusMaximus]

I started this thread for Mother + Dreadnought:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15363

I've only used UGW with Countertop, and I've only played it in 3 small tournaments, but it's actually worked really well so far. I'm running 20 land and 2 Dreadnoughts + 4 Stifle (no trickbind). I'm not sure I would drop green because Mom + Goyf is really good, but I could see Mom working well with a maxed out Stifle-Nought plan too.

[OurSerratedDust]

I think if you're running trinket mage, you should utilize it to a fuller extent. EE's and maybe even sensei's divining tops could work well. You could also cut the trinket mages, and run additional threats, perhaps?

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Yeah, I think part of the problem is that the list I came up with is sort of going in a weenie direction, but the only creatures that can be counted on to win the game are 'Nought, and to a waay lesser extent, Grunt. Wayfarer is probably unnecessary for this deck. Hussar is really just in there to be Brainstorm 5-6. The only real problem is that if I stay in white/blue, there's sort of a lack of other hardcore beaters to include in here.

I think that Drewlius is probably right to point me in the white/blue/green direction if I want to keep this as a hardcore weenie deck and really focus on the aggro plan. And OurSerratedDust makes a good point that right now, I don't get much maindeck use out of the Trinket Mages.

I think another option might be to splash black and go in a more controlling direction. This would probably entail making space for Counter/Top and using Dark Confidant and some discard spells (probably Duress if I run Confidant, since the main things I want to get them to discard are Krosan Grip, StP, etc.) In this case, the only creatures I would run would probably be some combination of 'Nought, Mother of Runes, Bob, Trinket Mage, and maybe Jotun Grunt (but probably not him).

Anyhow, yeah. The real point was to make a "Dreaded Mom" deck. But I'm not entirely sure if I want to go more towards the aggro or control side of the spectrum right now with the design, so feedback is appreciated.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Ok, here's a take on the Black/Blue/White, more control-ish version, just to show what I mean.

4 Mother of Runes
4 Dark Confidant
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Trinket Mage

4 Stifle
1 Trickbind

4 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives

4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Daze
4 Force of Will

3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp

SIDEBOARD:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Thoughtseize (Duress?)
3 Engineered Plague
4 Meddling Mage (Open slot. I just figured these are decent with Mom, and can help protect Dreadnought. There's probably a better use of the space.)

...What do y'all think about that list?

[Speck]

With adding Black I would be more inclined to go the beatstick route with Tombstalker and maybe vision charm (helps with the stalker and nought).
That will probably mess up your curve for counterbalance though but black gives you access to other forms of removal.

[Vacrix]

I've been playing around with something like this also. Consider a green splash. You get goyf and more importantly Ohran Viper. Viper is tight as shit. With MoM out, aggro has problems. It draws you cards or kills blockers and at the worst can trade with pretty much anything but Progenitals.

Besides viper and goyf, you get quirion ranger (or scryb rangers). It's ridiculous in combination with viper (attack and draw cards, but block and kill creatures). Also, think of the mad synergy you get between ranger and MoM. It stalls the shit out of aggro and allows MoM to be more than just a chump blocker and actually protect other shit. Also, if you add in Noble Hierarch you get some insane plays with it (thats alot of card space though..). Ranger also makes wayfarer far better. It allows you to bounce your forests so even when your opponent has more land, you can return all of yours (provided you have all forests) to find your wastelands anyway, and sometimes you can use wayfarer's ability twice to find 2 wasteland, or wasteland and a relevant land (like academy ruins). Seriously though, with wayfarer you have a lot of incentive to play at least a singleton academy ruins.

Green splash is a bit of a stretch but you dont really need grunt when you can run goyf and you dont really need court hussar when you can run viper. I'll post a list up of what I'm playing if anyone is curious. It's been pretty legit.

Also, without acceleration like Noble Hierarch or Birds, I can't imagine you will hit 3 mana often to play any of your higher CC spells, or even Trickbind + Dreadnought.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I've been playing around with something like this also. Consider a green splash. You get goyf and more importantly Ohran Viper. Viper is tight as shit. With MoM out, aggro has problems. It draws you cards or kills blockers and at the worst can trade with pretty much anything but Progenitals.

.....

Do you use the Counter/Top package in your blue/white/green list? Can you show me what you've been working on? One.

[Vacrix]

Well since Weathered Wayfarer has been brought to my attention I've been playing with it. This is more of an aggro deck, but it might give you some ideas.

Power Rangers
Land: (18)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
3 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
1 Tundra

Creatures: (30)
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Quirion Ranger
3 Scryb Ranger

4 Mother of Runes
3 Weathered Wayfarer
2 Qasali Pridemage

4 Ohran Viper
3 Knight of the Reliquary

Spells: (12)
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sensei's Diving Top
2 Garruk Wildspeaker

SB:
4 Trinisphere
4 Stasis
2 Rhox War Monk
2 Choke
2 Krosan Grip
1 Forsaken City

This is what I've been playing casually for some time now on MWS.

Synergies:
Noble Hierarch + Quirion Ranger
Noble Hierarch + Scryb Ranger
Birds of Paradise + Quirion Ranger
Birds of Paradise + Scryb Ranger
Combinations as such let you work with 4 mana on turn 3 with just 1 land. Keeping your land count low is legit if you can get out wayfarer. As long as you are careful with the rangers you should be able to completely avoid wasteland and sinkhole (or surprise with Scryb Ranger at instant speed). It's nice to explode with this in the early game and drop either quirion ranger turn 2 and then either ohran viper or knight of the reliquary or go use scryb rangers and drop something else like jitte or leave some mana open to stifle fetch lands.

Mother of Runes + Quirion Ranger
Mother of Runes + Scryb Ranger
Protect your creatures really well. It becomes harder to get rid of this combo too with targeted removal once you get more rangers or Mom's down.

Mother of Runes + Quirion Ranger + Knight of the Reliquary/Ohran Viper
Mother of Runes + Scryb Ranger + Knight of the Reliquary/Ohran Viper
Knight in this deck is usually huge. It is what ends the game. Viper gets there but usually just to draw you cards or play defense. Of course having numerous exalted creatures helps too. Viper, Mom and at least one rangers gives you a wall that the opponent usually doesn't want to attack into.

Ranger (Q or S) + Knight of the Reliquary
Makes him huge. You can sac a forest, search for a fetch land, play the fetch land, fetch, play another forest, return that forest to untap knight, replay the forest for your turn and repeat (or just attack now that he is 2 P/T bigger. Also it gives KoTR vigilance if you need him to block or enabling you to play 2 wastelands in one turn at the expense of a few of your lands but you can play with even just 1 so its usually not a big deal.

Ranger (Q or S) + Wayfarer
Find multiple lands by activating his ability twice, enables you to find relevant lands and wastelands in the same turn, while also being able to return all your lands so that you can use his ability anyway.

Garruk:
He is sick. Usually you play out a lot of creatures that work well with each other, and then sit back on this guy until you can overrun, or just create creatures to over run the opponent. Also, postboard you get Stasis which is a huge surprise in game 2 (though I'm considering it in the main deck).

Other card choices:
Brainstorm (I have a lot of shuffle effects so I like being able to get rid of excess lands I find with wayfarer to do some card filtering. This was Daze for a while but I'm testing this right now)
Stifle (Has been sick. If he is drawing his duals and trying to fetch basics, this is necessary for maintaining a wasteland lock and protecting you from wasteland before you have rangers)
Jitte (Has been lejitte. With so many guys that can pick it up, drawing one gets a lot of counters on it quickly due to vigilance from rangers, especially when multiples of creatures are expendable (excess rangers or something))
Sensei's Diving Top (I run one as a card filter. It was sylvan library but I changed to this to test the difference and this worked much better.)
Qasali Pridemage (I use it to destroy shit more often than not, though I am very much considering changing it to Caller of the Claw because I run into problems with mass removal like pyroclasm, EE, Deed, etc, and CotC looks like a good answer to that problem. The other one I was considering was Proclamation of Rebirth but I CotC looks like it would end the game faster.)


The deck needs A LOT of work, but its fun to play, has mad tricks (especially when you can play Scryb Rangers at instant speed and make them waste their bolt + path to exile when mother of runes gets pro red and white, or play Scryb Rangers untapping your Ohran Viper to kill an attacking Goblin Warchief). It will probably give you some ideas. I might drop wayfarer to the board in favor or something better against aggro like Rhox War Monk (which is also sick with vigilance).

I'd like to run Stasis and Counterbalance...and your idea of Dreadnought but there just isn't any space (rangers and BoP/NH take up too much space). I thought about running 4 enlightened tutor and then a singleton Stasis and singleton dreadnought, but I haven't gotten around to testing it yet. I run a more Stasis oriented version too:

Stasis
Land: (17)
4 Forsaken City
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island

Creatures: (20)
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Quirion Ranger
3 Scryb Ranger
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Court Hussar

Spells: (23)
4 Stasis
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Ponder
2 Spell Snare
2 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Diving Top
2 Luminarch Ascension
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Winter Orb

SB:
2 Counterbalance
1 Sensei's Diving Top
1 Winter Orb
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Luminarch Ascension
1 Moat
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Ethersworn Cannonist

That's more along the lines of what you are playing probably. This version has been FAR more consistent then the aggro one, but I like playing the aggro version for the wastelock tricks.

Let me know if you have any ideas for my lists, and I hope this helps with yours.