MWS "superbudget" tourney

[Pastorofmuppets]

This seems like it might be a lot of fun. the maximum price would be $50 US; using average prices from MOTL.com, as of this week, using everything in the Legacy cardpool.
would anyone want to do this?

[J.V.]

This sounds fun to me.

[Phoenix Ignition]

This needs more guidelines. Average average cost or lowest average (I assume the latter since alpha + beta throw everything off), sideboard included or extra money for that?

Basics included?

[Pastorofmuppets]

This needs more guidelines. Average average cost or lowest average (I assume the latter since alpha + beta throw everything off), sideboard included or extra money for that?

Basics included?

Basics not included, I guess; and the lowest average price assuming mint condition (meaning Wrath is $4.62)

[Phoenix Ignition]

Basics not included, I guess; and the lowest average price assuming mint condition (meaning Wrath is $4.62)

And sideboards?

[Pastorofmuppets]

sideboards are included in the budget.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I'm in. Just made a kickass deck (though the sideboard is 4 cards + basics I guess)

[Maveric78f]

You must be loving Burn and EtW/Belcher...

Not a metagame where I'd want to play...

[Phoenix Ignition]

Yeah and combo elves. This actually sounds a lot worse when you think about it...

[4eak]

I'm up for an online tourney. I'd be happy to participate.



peace,
4eak

[pi4meterftw]

Force is effectively banned in this format, so it's not going to turn out well.

[4eak]

Here is an easier list (http://sharetext.org/FQ8) to read.

If this is going anywhere, I'll be happy to make a script to parse MWS deck files and calculate their costs. That would make it easier for people.

Feel free to make a banlist if you want. EtW and Tendrils would be the only additions I'd recommend. I'm happy to play even if there isn't a banlist though.



peace,
4eak

[JeroenC]

You must be loving Burn and EtW/Belcher...

Not a metagame where I'd want to play...

Seconded, I'm probably out.

[Pastorofmuppets]

we can run some tests and make bannings accordingly, people.

[4eak]

After testing, I'll verify it:

Auto-bans:
Tendrils
Empty the Warrens

These two cards have always been great in peasant-like formats, and with a 50 dollar limit, you can cram some pretty impressive rares and tutors into the deck. Way, way too broken.

With these gone, I think there is still a clear winner. The vast majority of Naya zoo can be found for under 20$ in this case.

I've made the script to calculate deckcosts (http://pastie.org/764139). If you want to use it, make a '.py' file with it. Adjust the filenames as necessary (I've commented where you need to make changes). You'll need to make a textfile from my previous post's link. Run the .py file in the same directory as the textfile and your mwdeck file.

Whoever will be in charge can use it to verify that lists are under the dollar limit. Anyone making decks will find it useful as well; more building, less time crunching numbers.




peace,
4eak

[pi4meterftw]

After testing, I'll verify it:

Auto-bans:
Tendrils
Empty the Warrens

These two cards have always been great in peasant-like formats, and with a 50 dollar limit, you can cram some pretty impressive rares and tutors into the deck. Way, way too broken.

With these gone, I think there is still a clear winner. The vast majority of Naya zoo can be found for under 20$ in this case.

I've made the script to calculate deckcosts (http://pastie.org/764139). If you want to use it, make a '.py' file with it. Adjust the filenames as necessary (I've commented where you need to make changes). You'll need to make a textfile from my previous post's link. Run the .py file in the same directory as the textfile and your mwdeck file.

Whoever will be in charge can use it to verify that lists are under the dollar limit. Anyone making decks will find it useful as well; more building, less time crunching numbers.




peace,
4eak

I think naya zoo will suffer from a problematic mana base. Combo elves, though...

[mchainmail]

Ban Glimpse of Nature too? It seems like the entire extended deck can be had for under $50.

[Dan Turner]

HMMM, $50 a budget run of Solidarity anyone.

[4eak]

I think naya zoo will suffer from a problematic mana base. Combo elves, though...

It does suffer, but not by as much as most would initially think. Terramorphic Expanse and Naya Panorama go a long way to making 3 colors acceptable.

Although, combo elves sounds even better =).



peace,
4eak

[elof]

I'm probably in to. I think I even got a deck...

[Pastorofmuppets]

So Grapeshot, Brainfreeze, and Elves without Glimpse are our combo options? Are we missing anything stupid and obvious? Anyone wanna test some budget Belcher against me?

[yawg07]

This sounds like it could be pretty fun.
I'll start building. We are using the Legacy banlist, yes?

Or are we creating a separate banlist?
In which case this loses its lustre for me, I thought it was superbudget legacy.

[Pastorofmuppets]

This sounds like it could be pretty fun.
I'll start building. We are using the Legacy banlist, yes?

Or are we creating a separate banlist?
In which case this loses its lustre for me, I thought it was superbudget legacy.

well, we will have to ban tendrils and ETW, and maybe Glimpse. Other than that the cardpool won't change much.

[xTrainx]

I'll probably be game.
It would be more fun to drop budget limit to 25$ tho imo.

[stuckpixel]

I'm in - game for whatever budget.

[Ciberon]

I'd love to play, but I'm not sure if I could find some time to meet my opponents. My timezone is gmt-1.

[yawg07]

Okay okay, I've built something I think will do well.
It actually figured to EXACTLY $50 by MOTL's average haha

[Pastorofmuppets]

I made a pretty tight Fish list, SB and all, for about $36. Which means I have room for Vials or Serendib Efreets or whatever.

[yawg07]

My deck is White Weenie and with SB, comes to exactly $50
Also, you don't have room for more than two vials, though.

[gravemind123]

I'd be in if we can figure out a reasonable B&R list.

[paK0]

I guess I'm in if i can figure out something that works till the tournament starts.

[kicks_422]

I'd love to join, but I most likely would not have the time to play in the tournament. I have a whole folder in my MWS directory for budget decks though, 15-ish sub-$50 decks if I'm not mistaken. You can PM me if you want the lists.

[Pastorofmuppets]

I'm trying to make a UB reanimator at the moment. I really hate Foil.

[yawg07]

It sucks that Foil becomes unusable by MOTL's guide haha

[Giles]

I will be in, only if the rules are made clear before hand.

[Pastorofmuppets]

It sucks that Foil becomes unusable by MOTL's guide haha

well, foil Foil is $1.50...

I need a Black Stax finisher on the cheap.

[Guevera59]

In

[THEchubbymuffin]

I'm in. Working on some nonsense now.

[erg-19]

I'm in it to win it. GO GO GADGET SNEAK ATTACK!!!(Not the card, just the saying):laugh:

[Phoenix Ignition]

Someone better actually set this thing up if anyone is planning on anything happening. Right now people are just saying "Lets do this!!" and sitting there.

And no, I'm not pointing at myself. I'm far too lazy to do that.

[4eak]

Agreed. Pastorofmuppets hasn't really replied to my call for it; I assume that while he considers it a good idea, he isn't interested in running the thing. If no one else wants to run it, I guess I can run it (would be my first time using the DCI reporter).

I still would want to play in the tourney. Because it will be necessary for me to check the prices of all deck entries, I will need to know your decklists in advance. This poses a conflict of interest. Therefore, in fairness, I will be posting my decklist BEFORE I will receive/view any signup PMs. In this way, you know I am not metagaming with an unfair advantage (in fact, I will have a slight disadvantage because you get to choose a deck in response to mine), and more importantly, my matchup opponents and I will be on equal information terms. Will that be acceptable? If not, let me know.

If I'm running it, then I'll need to set the rules more clearly. What do you think about these rules?


Maximum total deckcost will be $50 according to MOTL's average price list (please skip over exceptions which are obviously wrong, like a dual land for zero dollars or something). -- Basic lands of any sort are free.
The format is Legacy, with Empty the Warrens and Tendrils of Agony as the additional banned cards (sorry guys, they are broken in budget builds).
I'm giving ~1 week for signups (based on when rounds start)

Post a deckcode in the thread.
Send me your decklist and deckcode by PM (please title it appropriately)

I am not handling prize support of any sort; if others want to pledge, feel free, but it is not expected.
Rounds will last 6 days total. They will officially start on 12:01 AM Monday mornings GMT+7 and end on 12:01 AM Sunday GMT+7.
All players must acknowledge within the "Round X" thread that they intend to play and have contacted their opponents for scheduling purposes within 2 days of the beginning of a round (I think this is fair). If you haven't posted within 48 hours of the start of a round (and given an acceptable amount of time to schedule a match), then you take a loss unless your opponent has mercy on you for "showing up late".
If both players show initiative and try to schedule a match, but it never results in a play, then it will be a draw.
Any player who doesn't communicate in some form or another during a round will be dropped from the tournament.
This is a fairly casual tournament, so play with somewhat relaxed rules and be charitable please.


If someone else wants to volunteer, that would be swell. Thoughts, suggestions, etc?




peace,
4eak

[Phoenix Ignition]

Awesome! I knew I wouldn't have to do any real work if I just called out that no one else is doing any real work! :wink:

I think we should say all basic lands (Not including snow-covered) can be errata'd to 0.00 dollars. I just say this because right now my deck is 49.something$ and I am going to have a 4 card - 11 basic land sideboard most likely.

I guess it isn't necessary and if players want to veto the free basic lands that is fine, but I was counting on it from a previous comment in this post.

Anyway, I'm in, once more people get in I'll post my deck code.

[4eak]

I forgot to mention that basic lands were free. My deck-pricing script ignores all basics, snow-covered or regular.

Any other issues?




peace,
4eak

[Pulp_Fiction]

Burn will dominate this shit!! Flame Rift, Javelin, Rift Bolt, Fireblast, etc!

[Pastorofmuppets]

I forgot to mention that basic lands were free. My deck-pricing script ignores all basics, snow-covered or regular.

Any other issues?




peace,
4eak
Snow-Covered will probably take up some portion of the format if they're free. with 22 lands, it's only about $5.50 out of the deck. 4 Scrying Sheets is another $4. It really shouldn't be a problem if we DON'T include them.
EDIT: Also, I'd totally run the tournament, but I have midterms coming up, and the second half of the marking period is always a bitch.

[Giles]

I also think that Goblin Charbecher should also be banned.

[Pastorofmuppets]

So, Windows 7 won't let me save the script and price list files in the application folder.

[Phoenix Ignition]

So, Windows 7 won't let me save the script and price list files in the application folder.

Hi, I'm a PC and Windows 7 was my idea.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Now, I ran the script and nothing happens. The Python program opens then closes.
Who wants to test?
Also, listing myself as playing "casual" on MWS I made a turn 3 12/12 Progenitus.

[dorsch]

I still would want to play in the tourney. Because it will be necessary for me to check the prices of all deck entries, I will need to know your decklists in advance. This poses a conflict of interest. Therefore, in fairness, I will be posting my decklist BEFORE I will receive/view any signup PMs. In this way, you know I am not metagaming with an unfair advantage (in fact, I will have a slight disadvantage because you get to choose a deck in response to mine), and more importantly, my matchup opponents and I will be on equal information terms. Will that be acceptable? If not, let me know.


Or you just post the MWS security code of your deck in this thread.
Thinking about, everyone should post the MWS security code, so no one is able to change his deck after the start of the tournament.

[4eak]

Download and install Python 2.6.

Make some directory, it should contain three things:


thescript.py
MOTLPricelist.txt
yourdeck.mwDeck

Modify the variables in your .py file to match your txt and mwDeck filenames.

Run your script in IDLE, and you'll see the output clearly. It ignores all basics entirely, and then you'll see for each entry in your decklist file:

Quantity -- Card -- Cardprice -- Product of [Quantity][Cardprice] -- CurrentDeckCost

This helped me quickly adjust decks when creating them. A surprising number of archetypes can be reassembled into budget versions under the $50 mark according to this pricing index.

It should be noted that there are current exceptions (which are very easy to spot). I was going to check exceptions by hand because they are so rare and largely unplayable in this format(expensive dual lands, Power9, etc.). Unfortunately, the actual MOTL pricelist was a pain to parse. There are no true delimiters (even the spacing isn't uniform enough for excel to import it perfectly), although it is possible to work backwards on each row.


@ dorsch


Or you just post the MWS security code of your deck in this thread.
Thinking about, everyone should post the MWS security code, so no one is able to change his deck after the start of the tournament.

I was just going to make a new thread entirely for it once we had hammered out rules.

One of the primary purposes of deckcodes is for what you have listed.

Please notice though, the TO will need to check for deckprice integrity before the tournament begins, else someone with an illegal decklist will skew the results. We don't want to find out that someone has a deck above the limit in the top 8, we need to know deck legality beforehand. The TO, therefore, will have an unfair advantage (assuming he is playing) because he will know everyone's decklists in advance of the tournament. Perfect metagaming is available to the TO, and so pre-emptive posting of the TO's decklist will be necessary to eliminate that advantage. It would also correct the imbalance that would exist between the TO and his opponents (as the TO would know the opponent's deck, but not the other way around).




peace,
4eak

[Pastorofmuppets]

2 Mouth of Ronom 0.27 0.54 0.54
4 Scrying Sheets 0.65 2.60 3.14
4 Man-o'-War 0.13 0.52 3.66
4 Infiltrator il-Kor 0.25 1.00 4.66
4 Serendib Efreet 3.63 14.52 19.18
4 Drifter il-Dal 0.05 0.20 19.38
4 Spindrift Drake 0.25 1.00 20.38
4 Foil 70.00 280.00 300.38
4 Daze 2.17 8.68 309.06
4 Mana Leak 0.29 1.16 310.22
4 Brainstorm 0.21 0.84 311.06
4 Oona's Gatewarden 0.25 1.00 312.06

Cost = 312.06

I'm pretty sure that Foil should be ~ $1, probably less. I'm definitely under, which gives me more room for SB tech.

[4eak]

Yeah, exceptions are based upon a lack of input or a skewed input into their MOTL table. We need a way to deal with those exceptions. How about this: If you have an exception, then use starcitygames.com pricing for that particular card.



peace,
4eak

[yawg07]

SCG could be outrageous sometimes, though.
In fact, most of the time.

I mean under MOTL's list, I can run 1x Tarmogoyf 59x Forest, under SCG I can't as Tarmogoyf is $60.

[4eak]

Find a suitable substitute then -- finding a substitute that itself doesn't have exceptions might be a problem, which is why I just said SCG. Anything that would work would be fine with me though. There are very few exceptions, so it won't matter too much.




peace,
4eak

[yawg07]

Hrm, so already my deck has an exception haha.
Your script must read any Armageddon as Armageddon Clock (RV) at 0.09
While I would LIKE that, it isn't correct. PO2 Geddons are 0.99 with 5th closely after at 1.12 or something.

[4eak]

Script fixed. Here (http://sharetext.org/X9P) is the corrected list. The sign-up thread is also corrected.




peace,
4eak

[yawg07]

Sweet deal, I come in at $49.63, ready to rock and roll!

[Pastorofmuppets]

would I be able to pull off a Proteus Staff/Progenitus deck?