[Deck] Demonforge Loam (a Chains of Mephistopheles deck)

[Kangaxx]

I love the card Chains of Mephistopheles and it's unique ability that no other card seems to possess is what really interests me most about the card. So I decided I wanted to take a crack of possibly building a viable deck around the card. The only interaction that came to mind was the infamous Anvil of Bogardan + Chains combo but I failed to see of any mention of a competitive deck built around this combo. I have seen discard decks with Megrim run the combo but the deck I'm about to present to you takes an entirely different (and more broken) approach regarding the combo.

This deck is also called Demonforge Loam becuase it basically represents a conglomerate of both names of the cards Chains of Mephistopheles (the demon) and Anvil of Bogardan (the forge) as well as the inclusion of Life from The Loam. I also had that Rare Demonforge armor from World of Warcraft in the back of my mind when I came up with the name. I used to farm for that armor like mad when I use to play a year and a half ago. :wink:

Here's the decklist which I'll explain after posting it.

Demonforge Loam.DEC

// Lands
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
1 [ARE] Forest (7)
1 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
4 [REW] Wasteland
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
4 [A] Bayou
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [R] Badlands
2 [10E] Swamp (2)

// Creatures
2 [OD] Terravore
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [FUT] Narcomoeba
1 [JU] Sutured Ghoul
2 [DDC] Stinkweed Imp

// Spells
4 [LG] Chains of Mephistopheles
4 [VI] Anvil of Bogardan
3 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (2)
3 [SH] Mox Diamond
1 [TSP] Dread Return
3 [TSP] Smallpox
1 [SC] Dragon Breath

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 [JU] Ray of Revelation
SB: 4 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 [FNM] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle

The idea behind the deck is to basically get both Chains and Anvil into play while simultaneously reducing your opponent's hand to no cards. What's great about this deck is that you don't have to worry having a no card hand becuase the deck works in a different manner. You'll probably win the game with just the combo in play, I'll explain. Once you get the combo into play and both you and your opponent have no cards in hand, you and your opponent will essentially have 'no draws' for the rest of the game. The way the combo works is you draw +1 during draw step, +1 off Anvil, -1 becuase of Chains and then -1 due to the Anvils discard effect, basically negating all draws for the rest of the game. Once I reach that point, I will replace draw effects while simultaneously discarding the dredge effects due to both Anvil and Chain effects and mill myself (sort of how Ichorid does), get my library into my yard as quickly as possible then sac three narcoameobas that came into play, dread return a Sutured Ghoul, remove my terravores, goyfs and other creatures in my yard, attach Dragon Breath to the ghoul upon entering the battlefield and attack for an obscene amount of damage, ending the game.

I think one of the biggest benefits this combo has over other dredge decks such as ichorid, is the ability to outright deny draws for the rest of the game. Once I get the combo into play, I don't need lands in play, cards in hand or anything else required to win the game. I just sit back and dredge my library while simultanously denying my opponent's draws and eventually win the game. I've had games where I got the combo into play versus a Crucible + wasteland lock and still won. That's how resilient this deck can be and it's really a blast to play.

9 times out of 10 you will get the combo into play, but if all else fails, you can actually win games by beating face with Goyfs and terravores as well as Loam + Wasteland. Even narcoamebeas are pretty cool to attack with since they have flying. :wink:

Let me know what you guys think of this deck! I welcome your feedback! :smile:

[freakish777]

Would Raven's Crime have a place in this deck?


Also... Academy Ruins? You don't even have blue mana...

[Kangaxx]

Would Raven's Crime have a place in this deck?


Also... Academy Ruins? You don't even have blue mana...

Raven's Crime was initially in the deck but eventually got cut for Smallpox which doubled as creature kill which was much needed in the deck.

@The Academy Ruins - Mox Diamond? :wink: It's also not essential to the deck but I added it just becuase of the random interaction with recurring Anvils and SB cards. It's usually not needed though and I've never even activated the card once during testing due to the combo 'not caring' about what's on top of your library.

[Scrabble]

Dragon's Breath seems entirely unnecessary. Does that one turn really matter (haste vs. not having it)? It's most likely just going to end up being a wasted slot and a dead draw.

Also, you don't have any search/draw to find the combo reliably. This means that probably 50% of the time you're gonna go with the man plan in which case smallpox becomes rather poor.

Splash white for E-tutor?

Anyways, cool idea

[Mark Sun]

You have my appreciation for creating a pretty cool deck :cool:

Have you done any testing yet?

I agree with the above poster in saying that Dragon Breath is probably not necessary here. And Smallpox seems out of place. I think those 4 cards can be cut for, say, 3 extra lands and the fourth Mox Diamond (honestly, you want to accelerate early, and having 3 Mox Diamonds doesn't make a ton of sense. Going to 4 increases consistency, and you need the lands to support that).

[alderon666]

Doesn't the opponent get to play instants?

Oh you need to discard his hand to get the combo rolling. Bloodghast + Loam seems like a good one.

[Kangaxx]

Dragon's Breath seems entirely unnecessary. Does that one turn really matter (haste vs. not having it)? It's most likely just going to end up being a wasted slot and a dead draw.

Also, you don't have any search/draw to find the combo reliably. This means that probably 50% of the time you're gonna go with the man plan in which case smallpox becomes rather poor.

Splash white for E-tutor?

Anyways, cool idea

Nothing is a dead draw with x4 Anvil of Bogardan. In regard to the lack of a search engine, I feel that splashing another color might be unnessary. I've always have been able to draw the combo in testing. The main reason being if I draw an Anvil and it resolves, I'm usually able to draw into the other combo peices fairly easily. Call me krazy, but Anvil of Bogardan is just one of those cards you draw into and often with the right amount of luck, for some unknown reason. If all else fails I'll get the loam engine going and recur anvils with Academy Ruins and hope to draw into a Chains of Mephistopheles.

Thanks for the compliment regarding the deck as well.


You have my appreciation for creating a pretty cool deck

Have you done any testing yet?

I agree with the above poster in saying that Dragon Breath is probably not necessary here. And Smallpox seems out of place. I think those 4 cards can be cut for, say, 3 extra lands and the fourth Mox Diamond (honestly, you want to accelerate early, and having 3 Mox Diamonds doesn't make a ton of sense. Going to 4 increases consistency, and you need the lands to support that).

The main reason I run Dragon Breath is if a Dread Return or something similiar is the last card in your library, I'm able to attack without decking myself the next turn. Usually running x1 shouldn't be an issue since you could always discard it at any time with the Anvil. Smallpox is much needed creature removal and discard prior to setting up the combo. It's honestly a solid choice for the deck.

I'll kill two birds with one stone: I have done testing and that's why I only run x3 Mox Diamond. ;) I also disagree with the latter statement, a 4 mana combo (2 a peice) shouldn't be something to be too concerned about accelerating into. Run too much acceleration and you're lacking in other departments. One of the main reasons I run Mox Diamond is because of Loam and Smallpox, it doesn't have much to do with accelerating into the actual combo.

Again, thank you all for all of the positive responses. :)

[mchainmail]

Ruins also lets you not deck yourself, or take longer to deck yourself, which could become relevant in a long enough game.

[Kangaxx]

Ruins also lets you not deck yourself, or take longer to deck yourself, which could become relevant in a long enough game.

True. But a large majority of the time, you will never be actually gaining card advantage off of Loam, loam will most likely be a dredge outlet solely with the combo online. Reason being, the actual combo itself (Anvil of Bogardan mainly) will not allow you to keep it in your hand, in order to actually use it. The main reason I run Loam is to basically have a "Plan B" and dredging with the combo. That being said, you will never be able to get back an Academy Ruins from your yard with the combo online.

[FoolofaTook]

The old Chains of Mephistopheles/Howling Mine deck was freakishly unpredictable. The problem was similar to the one that you'll encounter with this, which is that both sides of the combo have to be in play for the effect to function and players with counters and/or removal will just piggyback off of your deck to keep the things they like in play and prevent you from establishing the lock.

You are right that you'll win the games where you get the combo in play. However you will spend many games unable to land it and caught in a trap of your own making.

[Kangaxx]

The old Chains of Mephistopheles/Howling Mine deck was freakishly unpredictable. The problem was similar to the one that you'll encounter with this, which is that both sides of the combo have to be in play for the effect to function and players with counters and/or removal will just piggyback off of your deck to keep the things they like in play and prevent you from establishing the lock.

You are right that you'll win the games where you get the combo in play. However you will spend many games unable to land it and caught in a trap of your own making.

Usually Hymn to Tourach, Thoughtseize and Smallpox solve this issue. :wink: 9 times out of 10 I cast the combo when my opponent has no cards in hand. Usually between discard spells and my opponent casting his own, reducing my opponent's hand to zilch is fairly easy. Usually my opponent will be tempted to cast things in his hand becuase of an Anvil of Bogardan, such as Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, FoW and other similiar things not suspecting the actual combo that would prevent them from winning the game. Once I lay down Chains of Mephistopheles (which most people don't suspect), both my opponent and I will have no cards in hand becuase of my opponent's notion that it's "ok" to aimlessly overextend with an Anvil of Bogardan in play and cast spells they normally wouldn't.

[omega furnace]

The combo can be broken. An instant artifact/enchantment removal spell drawn at the right time will be able to take out one of the pieces.

Assuming you have Chains and Anvil in play:
Draw Step: Player Draws for turn, Anvil trigger goes on stack (draw, discard), Chains Replacement tinkers with Anvil Trigger (now discard, draw, discard), Player gets priority (plays KGrip/Naturalize/Disenchant/wutever), modified Anvil trigger resolves (discard, draw, discard)

You can play a Disenchant or similar, assuming you have the mana. Vialing out a dude is also possible.

Conclusion: This is a soft-lock combo. Solid, but breakable. It's only vulnerable to instant speed artifact/enchantment removal, but Vial can still put guys out which seems like a HUGE problem.

Solution: I think you need some walls or something to stop beaters. Pitty goyf will be huge when he lands with all the discard and milling going on. Will-o'-the-Wisp seems like the best fit. It flies, regens for B and it's 1 mana. Next best fit would probably be Stinkweed Imp since it has a pseudo-deathtouch ability and dredge, but are you going to have the mana to cast it?

Follow up question: How much mana do you typically have available when you complete the combo?

[FoolofaTook]

Usually Hymn to Tourach, Thoughtseize and Smallpox solve this issue. :wink: 9 times out of 10 I cast the combo when my opponent has no cards in hand. Usually between discard spells and my opponent casting his own, reducing my opponent's hand to zilch is fairly easy. Usually my opponent will be tempted to cast things in his hand becuase of an Anvil of Bogardan, such as Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, FoW and other similiar things not suspecting the actual combo that would prevent them from winning the game. Once I lay down Chains of Mephistopheles (which most people don't suspect), both my opponent and I will have no cards in hand becuase of my opponent's notion that it's "ok" to aimlessly overextend with an Anvil of Bogardan in play and cast spells they normally wouldn't.

If I see Anvil of Bogardan land I'm going to assume Chains of Mephistopheles is lurking somewhere in the vicinity. Players who have not actually seen the chains combo in one of it's various incarnations wouldn't see it coming because chains is a somewhat obscure card.

The real problem is that you have 8 cards in the deck that function well only in the combo. Chains has a few minor uses outside of the combo, like making Brainstorm useless and shutting down cantrip abilities in general, however it really does not function well on it's own. Anvil of Bogardan is essentially a permanent cantrip and can help you filter however it starts working for the opponent first.

People used to play Icy Manipulators or Relic Barriers with Howling Mines and they'd tap them during the opponent's turn to prevent them from getting the effect as a positive thing when the Chains were not out.

[bruno_tiete]

It seems to me that you can in fact keep cards in hand with the combo in the battlefield. This happens because dredge replaces the draws, so if you dredge Loam back, Anvil will be your "first draw", thus not making you discard 2 cards. (pretty much the same way Abundance and Sylvan Library are BFFs in EDH)

This can be an upside, since you can play Loam, develop your manabase and dredge a beater later on FTW, instead of slowrolling it until Amoebas, DR and the Ghoul show up. It also allows you to Loam, cycle dredging Loam, Loam, and cycle actually drawing cards, 2 or 3 a turn (rendering the Ghoul plan useless?).

On the other hand, this means Loam decks won't be locked out. Bob on board won't, as well. Senseii's Divining Top will allow for your opponent to have one last draw on your turn, so beware. You could be killed by Vendillion Clique or something. Oh, and Vial.

That's a nice idea, but it feels to me too vulnerable when facing current strategies.

[Kangaxx]

The combo can be broken. An instant artifact/enchantment removal spell drawn at the right time will be able to take out one of the pieces.

Assuming you have Chains and Anvil in play:
Draw Step: Player Draws for turn, Anvil trigger goes on stack (draw, discard), Chains Replacement tinkers with Anvil Trigger (now discard, draw, discard), Player gets priority (plays KGrip/Naturalize/Disenchant/wutever), modified Anvil trigger resolves (discard, draw, discard)

You can play a Disenchant or similar, assuming you have the mana. Vialing out a dude is also possible.

Conclusion: This is a soft-lock combo. Solid, but breakable. It's only vulnerable to instant speed artifact/enchantment removal, but Vial can still put guys out which seems like a HUGE problem.

Solution: I think you need some walls or something to stop beaters. Pitty goyf will be huge when he lands with all the discard and milling going on. Will-o'-the-Wisp seems like the best fit. It flies, regens for B and it's 1 mana. Next best fit would probably be Stinkweed Imp since it has a pseudo-deathtouch ability and dredge, but are you going to have the mana to cast it?

Follow up question: How much mana do you typically have available when you complete the combo?

If I'm able to keep my opponent off of 3 mana with Wastelands and Smallpox, Krosan Grip will not be able to disrupt the combo (yet another reason why Smallpox is good in the deck). And Disenchant shouldn't be an issue, initially, since no one plays that particular card.

I also added Extirpate in the SB to combat any K. Grips that happen to hit the yard due to discard or play mistakes based around the combo on my opponent's behalf.


If I see Anvil of Bogardan land I'm going to assume Chains of Mephistopheles is lurking somewhere in the vicinity. Players who have not actually seen the chains combo in one of it's various incarnations wouldn't see it coming because chains is a somewhat obscure card.


Usually when people see Anvil of Bogardan they instantly assume you're a noob playing some janky non-combo deck, and a large majority of the time they won't suspect a Chains of Mephistopheles. Reason being, there's actually alot of people that don't even know what the card does, i.e. players just getting into Legacy and even experienced players that got robbed of the opportunity of actually playing the game in past eras of the game itself.


The real problem is that you have 8 cards in the deck that function well only in the combo.

What 8 cards are you exactly referring to? The non-combo aspect of the deck plays like Eva Green with Goyfs and disruption and almost all of the cards in the deck have synergy with Anvil of Bogardan.


It seems to me that you can in fact keep cards in hand with the combo in the battlefield. This happens because dredge replaces the draws, so if you dredge Loam back, Anvil will be your "first draw", thus not making you discard 2 cards. (pretty much the same way Abundance and Sylvan Library are BFFs in EDH)

This can be an upside, since you can play Loam, develop your manabase and dredge a beater later on FTW, instead of slowrolling it until Amoebas, DR and the Ghoul show up. It also allows you to Loam, cycle dredging Loam, Loam, and cycle actually drawing cards, 2 or 3 a turn (rendering the Ghoul plan useless?).

On the other hand, this means Loam decks won't be locked out. Bob on board won't, as well. Senseii's Divining Top will allow for your opponent to have one last draw on your turn, so beware. You could be killed by Vendillion Clique or something. Oh, and Vial.

That's a nice idea, but it feels to me too vulnerable when facing current strategies.

I'm glad you pointed this out since I hadn't realized it myself, but could this possibly make dredging with Chains/Anvil even more powerful in a different shell? I'm pretty sure that the Ghoul plan will work though, since I can essentially dredge both draws, if I happen to have two dredge cards in my graveyard at the time.

[Plaguekeeper]

Demonforge Loam.DEC

// Lands
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
1 [ARE] Forest (7)
1 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
4 [REW] Wasteland
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
4 [A] Bayou
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [R] Badlands
2 [10E] Swamp (2)

// Creatures
2 [OD] Terravore
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [FUT] Narcomoeba
1 [JU] Sutured Ghoul
2 [DDC] Stinkweed Imp

// Spells
4 [LG] Chains of Mephistopheles
4 [VI] Anvil of Bogardan
3 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (2)
3 [SH] Mox Diamond
1 [TSP] Dread Return
3 [TSP] Smallpox
1 [SC] Dragon Breath

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 [JU] Ray of Revelation
SB: 4 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 [FNM] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle





Ive been mulling over this deck since I have an unnatural love of Chains and actually played this "combo" WAY WAY WAY back when and Ive come up with this..


// Lands

4 Wasteland
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Mishra Factory
2 Treetop Village
1 Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Forest
3 Swamp

// Creatures

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bloodghast


// Spells
4 Chains of Mephistopheles
4 Anvil of Bogardan
3 Life from the Loam
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Mox Diamond
4 Smallpox
3 Smother
1 Damnation


I know its 61 total cards.. its a habit.

This version seems extremely disruptive and if you can get the "lock" going then you dont have to worry so much about them being able to deal with the bloodghasts..

Burn seems like it would be an absolute nightmare of a matchup.


Has anyone done any kind of testing with a deck like this? If nothing else it could catch people by surprise and maybe steal a few matches out of confusion.. which the card is excellent at, ive learned this from playing a copy in my EDH deck..

[Barook]

Looks like the deck just got its ultimate kill card:

Quest for the Nihil Stone :b:
Enchantment
Whenever an opponent discards a card, you may put a quest counter on Quest for the Nihil Stone.
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, if that player has no cards in hand and Quest for the Nihil Stone has two quest counters on it, you may have that player lose 5 life.

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

If I'm able to keep my opponent off of 3 mana with Wastelands and Smallpox, Krosan Grip will not be able to disrupt the combo (yet another reason why Smallpox is good in the deck). And Disenchant shouldn't be an issue, initially, since no one plays that particular card.
What about pridemage? Maybe 1 ghoul isn't enough, its really frustrating to loose with such a deck only because one of your win conditions is very near to the end of your library.

[Kangaxx]

Looks like the deck just got its ultimate kill card:

Quest for the Nihil Stone :b:
Enchantment
Whenever an opponent discards a card, you may put a quest counter on Quest for the Nihil Stone.
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, if that player has no cards in hand and Quest for the Nihil Stone has two quest counters on it, you may have that player lose 5 life.

Where was this card spoiled, from Worldwake? Is this confirmed, or a joke started by the moderators? :really:

[Barook]

Not a joke, one of the first spoiled cards of Worldwake, even with a visual spoiler:

Card image (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100176&d=1263531876)

[jhhdk]

Seems classic discard just became a lot more viable too.