Starcitygames live video feed

[Maagler]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/scgopen2010

just in case anyone is interested.

[mchainmail]

Prosak's deck is interesting... Counterspell, Jotun Grunt, Trinket Mage???

[JeroenC]

Any sourcers playing in this?

[Maagler]

Prosak's deck is interesting... Counterspell, Jotun Grunt, Trinket Mage???

Yeah hes also running whipcorder and seat of the synod. I think some of the choices are subpar.

[MEATROCKET]

Prosak's got some odd choices for sure, but I know him and he is a great player. Still, though, Whipcorder :laugh: is the new tech.

[tyleredw]

This Ichorid match is painful to watch.

[vigilante]

This Ichorid match is painful to watch.

[x] Player dredges 6 with a Stinkweed Imp.
[x] Player rearranges graveyard order while searching it.
[x] Player forgets to put Narcomoeba/s into play when milled.
[ ] Judge mentions/acts on any of these things.

Yep, painful.

[tyleredw]

[x] Player dredges 6 with a Stinkweed Imp.
[x] Player rearranges graveyard order while searching it.
[x] Player forgets to put Narcomoeba/s into play when milled.
[ ] Judge mentions/acts on any of these things.

Yep, painful.

You forgot to add not knowing how Leyline worked.

[Julian23]

It's so painful to see how little the knowledge of the commentators is regarding Legacy...

"The High Tide deck" - "Oh you mean the Reset deck!"

"He was on two lands when I killed him and went like 'one more land and I would have killed you'....hahaha, right!"

[yankeedave]

I want to see Kibler's list, seems really weird to me.

Dave

[mchainmail]

You forgot to add not knowing how Leyline worked.

In the discussion afterwards, narcomoeba triggers were supposed to still be on the stack when everything happened.

Also, Progenitus gets there!

[tyleredw]

I'm digging the White Weenie deck in first place. This tournament is a tad on the weird side.

[FoulQ]

Is that "NoGoyf" playing right now, Jeff Lin?

[tyleredw]

Is that "NoGoyf" playing right now, Jeff Lin?

Unless the announcers were stupid (again, and highly likely), he's playing some weird stuff like shadow dudes. It's definitely seems like a variant of NoGoyf at least.

Edit after watching more: Yeah, they were definitely wrong.

I thought i remembered Forbiddian saying that they had new tech that Jeff was going to use for this tourney, but I've yet to see anything that crazy.

[Artowis]

It's an odd WU aggro deck. Kind of all over the place, but I can see why it's been working for him.

The field is basically 50% 'what we could find' and 50% 'this seems fun / competitive'.

[tyleredw]

It's an odd WU aggro deck. Kind of all over the place, but I can see why it's been working for him.

The field is basically 50% 'what we could find' and 50% 'this seems fun / competitive'.

NoGoyf (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15562)

[Artowis]

NoGoyf (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15562)

shrug. He said he homebrewed it w/ his friend. then again since the OP's location is SD, that's certainly possible.

[Artowis]

If anyone has anything they'd like to see, lmk in the next 30 minutes. I'm doing coverage temporarily.

[Jaynel]

The field is basically 50% 'what we could find' and 50% 'this seems fun / competitive'.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Legacy?

[FoulQ]

I'm positive that is NoGoyf. The way he described it makes it seem like pi4meterftw and forbiddian, because forbiddian was sick or whatever. And the decklist obv. It is NoGoyf.

[Nihil Credo]

If anyone has anything they'd like to see, lmk in the next 30 minutes. I'm doing coverage temporarily.
If NoGoy hasn't received coverage, it should get it now. Otherwise, Bloodghast Ichorid or some green-based combo deck would be a nice sight. Failing that, manboobs!

Also, why is the chat room full of screaming subhumans? The other times I looked at the feeds it wasn't that bad.

[Artowis]

If NoGoy hasn't received coverage, it should get it now. Otherwise, Bloodghast Ichorid or some green-based combo deck would be a nice sight. Failing that, manboobs!

Also, why is the chat room full of screaming subhumans? The other times I looked at the feeds it wasn't that bad.

They just did some video coverage on it, so we'll see. I might have to do something else.

The chat room is awful, because all Ustream chats are awful when the randoms and trolls get in. Esp. if you have a few people that have a clue arguing with them. Also yeah, the guy is Pie4, I just figured he'd mention the deck name or MTGS when I talked to him last round if he was associated with the place.

[tyleredw]

If NoGoy hasn't received coverage, it should get it now. Otherwise, Bloodghast Ichorid or some green-based combo deck would be a nice sight. Failing that, manboobs!

Also, why is the chat room full of screaming subhumans? The other times I looked at the feeds it wasn't that bad.

That's why i just popout the video and ignore the chat while reading the source instead. Now i can choose which screaming subhumans to read the rantings of. :cool:

[Meister_Kai]

Since I am all for WW in any way shape or form, I very quickly jolted down the list discussed in the stream:

(There are spelling errors)

4 fathom seerer
3 aether vial
2 jotun grunt
2 spell pierce
4 mother of runes
4 force of will
3 jitte
2 knight of white
4 serra avenger
4 swords to plowshares
3 daze
4 wheathered wayfarer
4 brainstorm

4 tundra
4 flooded strand
3 windsweapt heath
3 wasteland
2 planes
1 island

Sideboard

1 crypt
1 relic
1 wheel of sun and moon
1 jotun grunt
2 enlightend tutor
4 burrenton forge tender
3 Aura of Silence
2 Thorn of Alymest

Looks like it needs more lands for sure. Other than that I don't know what to think. It sounded like he played against almost every match-up that I figured would give him trouble. Can't wait till the tournament report!

[Artowis]

Apparently not a free round. Covering Caleb Neufeld vs. Sam Blau.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Who is talking right now??

Merfolk only run 3 Wasteland and 2 Mutavault!???

Do people ever look at lists of popular legacy decks before going on the air?

[hungryLIKEALION]

God the commentators are making me want to kill myself.

They're so ignorant of the format.

[tyleredw]

I'm interested to see what they name Jeff's NoGoyf list if he top 8's. StarCity's naming conventions are always hilariously wrong and stupid.

[mchainmail]

142 total decks
12 ANT
11 Gobbos
8 Loam
8 fish
7 naya zoo
6 belcher
6 dredge
6 NO Bant
6 thresh
5 stifle-naught
4 fae
4 rdw
3 38 land
3 BG rock
3 bant
3 CB-Top
3 Dragon Stompy
3 UBW control
3 Mono B control
3 reanimator
3 survival
32 other

[Artowis]

God the commentators are making me want to kill myself.

They're so ignorant of the format.

Why wouldn't they be? They only started covering Legacy events a month ago.

Like if most of the players have no idea about Legacy, I doubt the commentators are going to know a ton about the format.

[Broham]

Hi there, long time reader, first time poster.

I'd just like to say thank you for the link to the stream. I'm finding it and this thread very helpful and insightful. I'm a bit of noob to the format but I will be attending the Dallas tourney with a buddy. So any extra knowledge I can glean, the better.

Also, lol @ the commentary.

[Zlatzman]

That's why i just popout the video and ignore the chat while reading the source instead. Now i can choose which screaming subhumans to read the rantings of. :cool:
This is a fine idea. (except when tournament is at UTC-8 and I'm at UTC+1)

[Meister_Kai]

Best part of the commentary so far was Cedric Phillips bashing the merfolk and zoo players.

EDIT: did they just say there was an enchantress deck in the top 8? holy hell.

[Aggro_zombies]

I was there, but scrubbed out because I played a cute deck instead of my real deck.

Sam Blau is my friend, and posted here as Kronicler when he still, like, played on a regular basis. He lucksacked a couple wins today but most of it was solid A play. If he doesn't get psyched out, he should do well.

[Cyrus]

Feed is down

[from Cairo]

EDIT: did they just say there was an enchantress deck in the top 8? holy hell.

From what I can piece together of the broadcast top 8 is:

LED Dredge
NO Bant
Zoo
Canadian Thresh
Belcher
No-Goyf
Enchantress

Missed one I guess. Props to No-Goyf; that deck looked bad on paper, 6 undefeated rounds of swiss later apparently it works.

[MEATROCKET]

From what I can piece together of the broadcast top 8 is:

LED Dredge
NO Bant
Zoo
Canadian Thresh
Belcher
No-Goyf
Enchantress

Missed one I guess. Props to No-Goyf; that deck looked bad on paper, 6 undefeated rounds of swiss later apparently it works.

If they got the names of the player right, Belcher should be RB Goblins...I think. They've been pretty awful so I can't be sure.
edit: nevermind, Belcher is correct.

[Zilla]

No, they mixed up Wilson and Wesley. Wesley is playing Gobbos, Wilson is playing Belcher.

[MEATROCKET]

Ah, I didn't even know there was a Wilson. :laugh: Now let's hope they get the feed back up...

[Phoenix Ignition]

This is so laaaaame. I wanted to watch enchantress.

Guess I'll masterbate instead. Pretty much the same thing.

[Ebinsugewa]

Feed back.

[Aggro_zombies]

Guess I'll masterbate instead. Pretty much the same thing.
You get off to watching people play Enchantress decks? You have some weird fetishes, dude.

[Ebinsugewa]

Down again, and during the short time it was up, it was pretty laggy. Meh.

[Artowis]

The feed is having major connection issues. Some of the quarters are finished. Zoo and WW advanced.

[Bardo]

It's so painful to see how little the knowledge of the commentators is regarding Legacy...

"The High Tide deck" - "Oh you mean the Reset deck!"

"He was on two lands when I killed him and went like 'one more land and I would have killed you'....hahaha, right!"

The commentators are doing fine. It takes a certain kind of skill to do it (pretty much, an entertainer), which limits it some. Not being instantly familiar with High Tide is forgivable. It's not like this is 2006-07.

Watching the Bant vs. NO Bant match was kinda fun; less so w/ Dredge.

[FoulQ]

Interesting that back-to-back major events, ANT is the largest player and fails to make top eight again. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

[Aggro_zombies]

Interesting that back-to-back major events, ANT is the largest player and fails to make top eight again. Anybody have any thoughts on this?
Blue is a real color in this format.

[Meister_Kai]

If Enchantress is paired up against NoGoyf, I'm calling Enchantress the winner. If this happens, I am prepared to perhaps eat my words on all the badmouthing I do over controllish Enchantress decks. I will also cry tears of joy.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I would love to see Enchantress or Nogoyf win. As long as 1 of them make it to the finals I'd bet on them.

Soooo bored of Zoo and countertop bant decks.

[Aggro_zombies]

I would love to see Enchantress or Nogoyf win. As long as 1 of them make it to the finals I'd bet on them.

Soooo bored of Zoo and countertop bant decks.
Countertop Bant was the only Countertop there. Supreme Blue is apparently not good enough or something.

[AngryTroll]

I think it's interesting that 6 people played Belcher, and 3 of them went 4-1 going into round 6, and one of them made Top 8. Weren't there enough Forces and Dazes there to prevent that?

[Aggro_zombies]

I think it's interesting that 6 people played Belcher, and 3 of them went 4-1 going into round 6, and one of them made Top 8. Weren't there enough Forces and Dazes there to prevent that?
Sometimes you're not on the play, you know?

A friend of mine (playing aggro Loam), on the draw, faced twelve Goblin tokens turn one - the Belcher player going all-in on his opener, or course - only to have my friend topdeck the land that let him go land, Mox, Mox, Maelstrom Pulse on turn one.

It was UH-mazing.

[Meister_Kai]

So NoGoyf lost, one dream down.

However, it appears right now that Enchantress will win its semi-final barring something crazy.

If Enchantress wins the tournament, there is a god.

[caiomarcos]

Enchantress against Zoo! Predictions?
I'm betting on Replenish and Elephant Grass!

[Phoenix Ignition]

Awesome! Would prefer Nogoyf vs Enchantress, but I still bet on Enchantress!

[Master Shake]

Enchantments are amazing

[hungryLIKEALION]

Zoo's gonna have to get pretty lucky and draw a lot of pridemages to win...

[luckme10]

Enchantress all the way, and it'll be extra sweet against zoo.. like beating the Yankees! God I love this format!....


pooey a draw.

[Meister_Kai]

ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!?! WHAT?!?!

Wow. Lame. Like really really lame. I know they were tired blah blah blah, but seriously, Enchantress winning this would of meant the world to me. That Zoo player was so bad Enchantress would of won. Lame again.

[Master Shake]

For all of you who don't know: There was a split

Enchantress took the loss and a larger share of the money

Zoo took the smaller share of the pool, the points and the trophy.

Enchantress was really the first place deck, though.

[Phoenix Ignition]

So lame

[Aggro_zombies]

LAME.

I still fail to see why these things are allowed, but whatever. Congrats to the top 8 players.

[Meister_Kai]

I really want to see Enchantress's match-ups for the day, it had to of dodged the shit out of all the combo going around.

I also want to know what knocked out the Dredge deck in the top 8. How soon can we expect SCG to post everything?

[Phoenix Ignition]

I really want to see Enchantress's match-ups for the day, it had to of dodged the shit out of all the combo going around.

I also want to know what knocked out the Dredge deck in the top 8. How soon can we expect SCG to post everything?

They said his matchups, his 1 loss was to belcher and I think he dodged combo the rest of the day. I don't remember specifically what it was though.

[Aggro_zombies]

They said his matchups, his 1 loss was to belcher and I think he dodged combo the rest of the day. I don't remember specifically what it was though.
Combo was running the middle tables all day. If he did well early, he probably had little chance of seeing it.

[Bardo]

When Zoo and Enchantress split a ~140 player tournament, Legacy is doing fine.

[cdr]

When Zoo and Enchantress split a ~140 player tournament, Legacy is doing fine.

Well, more like Enchantress winning a 140 person and Dream Halls winning a 270 person in the same weekend.

Both T8s did seem pretty diverse though too.

[Ozymandias]

I took 12th with Ichorid, though I got rocked in my feature match, which bounced me from t8 contention.

Nice mise on the crypts, Sourcer. You know who you are...

[zuzy]

cdr: Where is the decklist of the Dream Hall deck that won the 270 person tournament?

SCG Open - Are there any decklist on web?

Regards
ZUZY

[Aggro_zombies]

I took 12th with Ichorid, though I got rocked in my feature match, which bounced me from t8 contention.

Nice mise on the crypts, Sourcer. You know who you are...
Don't feel too bad. That's just how Sam rolls. I've been the victim of many a ridiculous topdeck from that guy.

EDIT: @zuzy: they'll be up tomorrow or the day after most likely.

[Ebinsugewa]

cdr: Where is the decklist of the Dream Hall deck that won the 270 person tournament?

http://www.planetmtg.de/articles/artikel.html?id=5208

Scroll.

[Higashi]

I was the Dredge player in the top 8, I don't have too much time to write a report, but I'll tell you how I lost against Zoo....Game 1 I mulled down to 5 and got stomped by goyfs and apes...Only got to Dredge once.
Game 2 I had turn 1 P.Imp with Stinkweed, Dredged into nothing, got beatdown, Dredged a buch more...Saw only 1 Bridge, 1 Narco, and no Ichorids Dredged away about 30 cards...Zoo player was amazed at how aweful my Dredges were...Sucks to be me!

[dahcmai]

Dream Halls? Really? Ok, now I have seen everything. I remember that stupid card from Standard and how weird it was to play, but in Legacy I figured I'd never see it used.

Nice to see an Enchantress do so well. Now maybe people around here will stop playing Merfolk so damned much.

[Artowis]

I was the Dredge player in the top 8, I don't have too much time to write a report, but I'll tell you how I lost against Zoo....Game 1 I mulled down to 5 and got stomped by goyfs and apes...Only got to Dredge once.
Game 2 I had turn 1 P.Imp with Stinkweed, Dredged into nothing, got beatdown, Dredged a buch more...Saw only 1 Bridge, 1 Narco, and no Ichorids Dredged away about 30 cards...Zoo player was amazed at how aweful my Dredges were...Sucks to be me!

Yeah, you got completely screwed game two. Literally went through over half the deck and hit nothing of real relevance. Zoo kept an awful hand against you.

[THEchubbymuffin]

They gave enchantress the number 1 spot.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t[C1]=leg&start_date=2010-01-03&end_date=2010-01-03

[tyleredw]

Not sure if this deserves a new thread or not, but the Dallas/Fort Worth event is now being streamed as well.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel-popup/scgopen2010

[Phoenix Ignition]

Does anyone know who the commentators are? Like... are they good at some magic format? Because they obviously are horrible at knowledge in Legacy.

[vigilante]

Because they obviously are horrible at knowledge in Legacy.

Commentator 1: (Player casts Tendrils of Corruption) "Tendrils of Agony! No, Corruption. Tendils of.....Agony? What card is that?"
Commentator 2: "Um, it's the storm life gain card, isn't it?"

Admittedly this was during a Standard game, but it's a chilling preview of what we can expect if the same commentators are doing Legacy.

[Shugyosha]

They are actually getting better and better. St. Louis coverage was rough, didn't see much of L.A. but what I saw was okay and Dallas is actually quite good. They are there to entertain not to give you in depth analysis of the game you are seeing in front of you anyway.

[MMogg]

They are actually getting better and better. St. Louis coverage was rough, didn't see much of L.A. but what I saw was okay and Dallas is actually quite good. They are there to entertain not to give you in depth analysis of the game you are seeing in front of you anyway.

In that case, we might as well watch porn or listen to music. :wink:

Actually, I can't watch this. ustream is blocked in China, as is Facebook and Twitter. I hate this place.

[Otter]

They are actually getting better and better. St. Louis coverage was rough, didn't see much of L.A. but what I saw was okay and Dallas is actually quite good. They are there to entertain not to give you in depth analysis of the game you are seeing in front of you anyway.

Agreed. While they're certainly not impressive and I sure as hell wouldn't take deck advice from them, it isn't completely agonizing to listen to anymore. When these streams first started, they didn't know any of the cards or the archetypes or really anything at all about the format. I don't feel compelled to mute them anymore and that's some progress.

[MattH]

Apparently other folks from Austin are all doing very well (at least 3 in T16 going into final round). Now I feel bad for not going, how was I to know I would have Sunday free? :<

[Mark Sun]

The commentators are highly entertaining, actually.

"Tarmogoyf... it looks like it has a new mouth."
"It's a Domo... like the one from the 7-11 commercials (wtf?)"
"It actually is a Domo!"

The are ripping NoGoyf a little for its deck name too, but yeah, not too bright on Legacy knowledge. :tongue:

[Gheizen64]

Merfolk against Painter look like a slaughter... 8 blast main ._.

EDIT: it was a RAPE.

[Mark Sun]

Merfolk against Painter look like a slaughter... 8 blast main ._.

EDIT: it was a RAPE.

LOL

Lucky that he got paired against Mr. Bye :rolleyes:

[Otter]

Merfolk against Painter look like a slaughter... 8 blast main ._.

EDIT: it was a RAPE.

There are two more Fish decks in T8 too, I'd be so terribly jealous of his luck if he gets to play them in the semis and finals too.

edit -- What on earth is the NoGoyf player thinking? His opponent has triple Goyf out and he decides not to pay the upkeep for Jotun Grunt (for 4 age counters) when he has 4 or 5 card in his yard and his opponent has 6 or 7. Really?

[MMogg]

There are two more Fish decks in T8 too, I'd be so terribly jealous of his luck if he gets to play them in the semis and finals too.

edit -- What on earth is the NoGoyf player thinking? His opponent has triple Goyf out and he decides not to pay the upkeep for Jotun Grunt (for 4 age counters) when he has 4 or 5 card in his yard and his opponent has 6 or 7. Really?

Are you sure it was a "decision" or did he draw forgetting to pay the upkeep?

[Mark Sun]

Are you sure it was a "decision" or did he draw forgetting to pay the upkeep?

I caught the tail end of that, there was a lot of talking to each other about play mistakes, etc. So I actually think he forgot.


Edit: Yikes, he beat himself that round, sad.

[Gheizen64]

EDIT: no ok.

[caiomarcos]

A lot of bad plays from the NoGoyf player. I think he could've actually won that last game.

[luckme10]

Indeed, it was like watching a tragedy unfold.

[Otter]

Are you sure it was a "decision" or did he draw forgetting to pay the upkeep?

Pretty sure he didn't realize he can split the age counters between graveyards. Neither player had enough total, but between them he could've payed it. Either way, train wreck of a match, he had it in so many ways.

Anyways, Merfolk with splashed Goyf is getting crushed by 43lands right now. Having Trops instead of Islands really sucks against Wasteland recursion.

[Artowis]

Does anyone know who the commentators are? Like... are they good at some magic format? Because they obviously are horrible at knowledge in Legacy.

Rashad Miller is a former PT player and helped do coverage / commentary for WOTC for years. Not sure about the other announcer.

[Otter]

Commentators are finally realizing that the Ug Fish probably aren't boarding B2B. Brilliant.

[Kronicler]

There has been soooooo much horrible magic, it's not even funny. The 14 year old Lands player isn't making mistakes and people are like, "OMG HE'S SO GOOD!!!"

[Otter]

There has been soooooo much horrible magic, it's not even funny. The 14 year old Lands player isn't making mistakes and people are like, "OMG HE'S SO GOOD!!!"

He's quickly falling from grace as well, he just forgot to Maze a lone Silvergill. . .

[Kronicler]

Yeah, lol. In the chat I'm like oh look, he's just as bad as all the other terrible players, and people are like, "OMG one mistake doesn't mean he's bad!" which is true... except these mistakes are painfully obvious...

[Kronicler]

The kid EEs for 1, forgets that it kills his manabond... game rules violation.... wow

[MattH]

The kid EEs for 1, forgets that it kills his manabond... game rules violation.... wow

The GRV was bad, but EE for 1 was correct even though it kills Bond.

[Kronicler]

Yeah, it locked the game. At first it seemed really poor, but it was right.

[Kronicler]

Recruit for grindstone. Nice.

[Shugyosha]

Seven rounds of swiss are behind those guys, its normal that they make mistakes, although the No Goyf player was really on tilt.

The feature matches in the early rounds however were hard to watch. Some people play so slowly...

[Whit3 Ghost]

Oh lawd. Invisible Explorations ftl.

[Artowis]

These last sets of matches are basically why everyone makes fun of general skill in Legacy. This is what they get exposed too and respond appropriately for what they get to see.

[Kronicler]

I've been watching since Aggro_Zombies played and have seen the worst magic OF MY LIFE being played.

[Mark Sun]

Is this thing over yet? Went to work out, just got back, and the page is blank.

Edit: Never mind, fuck Firefox. Time to be entertained. I'm surprised they're playing it out.

[Julian23]

LOOOOL ARE YOU SEEING WHAT I SEE? HE ACTUALLY PUNTED AGAIN! Does this mean a warning for both of them? Resulting in a game loss for both, forcing GAME 4?

[Kronicler]

Holy Balls This Is Rediculous....

[Irish_Mafia]

Oh my god... how are these player in the top 8?

[Mark Sun]

Holy Balls This Is Rediculous....

LOL

This is highly entertaining.



Oh my god... how are these player in the top 8?

Ladies and Gentlemen, your Legacy players! :tongue:

[Kronicler]

Game Loss!!

[Cyrus]

Dude... how many sourcers are on this tourney?

[Julian23]

Seriously, shouldnt the Zoo guy also get a warning for Failure to maiantain game state which would be his second resulting in a game loss for him as well making this game a tie? Therefor forcing game 4?

Seriously, I want a judge answer this!

[whienot]

Sigh......that was a depressing loss.

:eek:

[Mark Sun]

Seriously, shouldnt the Zoo guy also get a warning for Failure to maiantain game state which would be his second resulting in a game loss for him as well making this game a tie? Therefor forcing game 4?

Seriously, I want a judge answer this!

cdr is nowhere in sight :eyebrow:

But it looks like this one's in the books.

[Bardo]

I was thinking the Zoo guy should pack it in. Good thing he didn't. Weird.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Jesus fuck, Legacy players suck.

[Leftconsin]

I was thinking the Zoo guy should pack it in. Good thing he didn't. Weird.

I was thinking the opposite. Tired players screw up, either by rules violation or simply making a terrible play. Its untimed, might as well act like a goldfish for a few minutes and hope.

[FoulQ]

People! Remember, legacy is still a very regional thing. There is not a strong legacy scene down in Texas. If this tournament was in Boston or something I guarantee you this woudn't be happening.

[Mark Sun]

I was thinking the opposite. Tired players screw up, either by rules violation or simply making a terrible play. Its untimed, might as well act like a goldfish for a few minutes and hope.

The announcers were going over this possibility, and of course, there had been 2 missed triggers already. Didn't see what they were, but they were joking about it as he was activating his Factories.



People! Remember, legacy is still a very regional thing. There is not a strong legacy scene down in Texas. If this tournament was in Boston or something I guarantee you this woudn't be happening.

Where are the strongest concentrations of Legacy players? Obviously there's a strong Midwest presence, and a strong Northeastern presence.

[caiomarcos]

The announcers were going over this possibility, and of course, there had been 2 missed triggers already. Didn't see what they were, but they were joking about it as he was activating his Factories.



In the quarter finals he blew up explosives for one to destroy some fish and forgot to destroy his own manabond. Then in the finals, in the same last game, he played two lands in the same turn.

I really don't know the details of how warnings work, so it would be great if anyone could elaborate and break it down.

[dahcmai]

I think it's just us really with the occasional poor sap who has the cards and no one to play.


Those games were painful to watch. Even the ones before the finals were chock full of silly mistakes and some of the oddest plays ever. I kept laughing as one person would make an epic screw up and then the other would counter with another epic screw up changing to side's favor again.

It was amusing to be sure.

I was more impressed by the announcers this time though. One of them seemed to not know the format, but the other did.

[Rune]

Today I learned that you should never scoop.. to anything : D

[Leftconsin]

I really don't know the details of how warnings work, so it would be great if anyone could elaborate and break it down.

Quote from the MTG_IPG:
"Repeat offenses at Regular REL may be upgraded at the Head Judge’s discretion. At Competitive and Professional RELs, repeat Game Play Error offenses in the same category are upgraded as follows:

Caution — Warning — Warning — Game Loss — Match Loss — Disqualification"

The game play errors he committed three times were the generic Game Rule Violation, which applies to most ways you can screw up like paying for WoG with 3W or attacking when you can't.

[Julian23]

After talking to some people:


The kid did get a game loss not because of 3 Failures to maintain game state (which would be harsh to upgrade to a game loss) but because of 2 Failures to maintain game state and 1 Game Rules Violation when he attack with Chasm in play. THAT got upgraded to a Game loss. Ross (the Zoo guy) also got his 2nd warning in a single game for failure to maintain game state but it wasn't upgraded to a game loss (people tell me it rarely ever is.).

[FoulQ]

Personally I think the NoGoyf name is a horrible name, because it implies Natural-Order Goyf. The creators really should rename it.

Also, remember that a lot of these cards are fairly new to some of these players. A lot of them aren't really legacy players. Plenty of good players could make a mistake like attacking with a chasm in play after so many rounds of magic if they don't really play legacy. Imagine going into a format you don't understand, make a stressful top eight and all these random triggers you never had to deal with in your preferred format.

[Phoenix Ignition]

The epic fail that was that match was so entertaining. I couldn't stop laughing as everyone was gearing up for his attack step, and BAM match loss. Hahaha I'm a heartless bastard.

EDIT: If anyone has youtube of it, or even better the kid having a tantrum after he got the gameloss I would appreciate the link!

[Aggro_zombies]

Back from the event now. Are these on YouTube or this GGSlive site or what? I'd like to watch what I missed, it seems like it could be fun.

[Leftconsin]

Back from the event now. Are these on YouTube or this GGSlive site or what? I'd like to watch what I missed, it seems like it could be fun.

Its up on Star City's site.

[Aggro_zombies]

Its up on Star City's site.
The coverage is, but the videos are all from L.A. still. Weaksauce.

[stacker]

they said they the videos would be up by tuesday or so

Proper capitalization and punctuation are required on these boards. Use them in the future. -zilla

[DrHealex]

I feel to lucky to have randomy decided to check this site, at which pointed i found a topic that had a link to this tourney. I saw the last 10 min of it, and the chat room conversation was nothing but speculation that he was going to make an error, and mostly likely, attack when he couldn't legally do so.

And lo, and behold, he does. Amazing.

Props to the guy for his extremely humorous rage quit, he should have flipped the table :D (although the top 4 had already split the money and it was simply for the trophy and the glory)

[Phoenix Ignition]

Was anyone at the event that saw what the 14 year old did when he flipped out? They didn't show it on ggslive but he was swearing up a storm.

Anything fun like table flipping or card ripping?

[andrew77]

That finals match was awful. So much misplaying on both sides. I'm pretty happy the kid playing lands lost though. He was either retarded or kept trying to cheat.

[dahcmai]

Yeah, there was a little cussing they didn't cut from the feed at the end, but you could barely hear it.

It was pretty epic fail. The bad part was one of the other warnings was in the same game. Dropping two lands in a turn.

It does seem a little harsh for trying to swing with a Chasm out though. I guess that's the way it has to be or otherwise people will abuse it, but man, it seems like you should get a go back when there's ten million people watching you and it's obvious you're just being tired and stupid. You'd think they could just tell him "umm can't do that" and call it good when there's enough people to make sure you can't accidentally do stuff like that. Such is the Competitive Rel though. I guess when there is a lot on the line they have to enforce hard.

At least the kid gets to walk away with a split. The top 4 split it.



One thing that got me about this tournament is this deck. It has Lavamancers in Threshold? I guess it's not too big of a deal considering he did well overall, but this is hearkening back to the argument of having Lavamancers and Barbarian Rings in the same deck. Kind of counter-productive. Whatever works I guess.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=30815

[andrew77]

I'm surprised nobody caught on to the fact he dropped 2 lands until people mentioned it in the live feed. Even so if it had been a higher REL that alone would have been game losses for both of them.

[Tha Gunslinga]

That finals match was awful. So much misplaying on both sides. I'm pretty happy the kid playing lands lost though. He was either retarded or kept trying to cheat.

He was 14 and had been playing Magic for 10-12 hours straight. I wouldn't expect most of us to do better.

[Phoenix Ignition]

It seems like a harsh penalty but at what point do you give someone an actual penalty other than just warning after warning? The kid had 2 already, and he knew he was going to win the game, all he had to do was follow the steps. His own damn fault he didn't learn his own cards before he played them.

The best way to never make a mistake like that again is to get a penalty like this for it, and considering he didn't lose any money for it he is pretty damn lucky.

[Aggro_zombies]

He was 14 and had been playing Magic for 10-12 hours straight. I wouldn't most of us to do better.
I'm going to echo this. It was a pretty long day even with only seven rounds.

[Forbiddian]

Personally I think the NoGoyf name is a horrible name, because it implies Natural-Order Goyf. The creators really should rename it.

The name came out before Progenitus was printed. Natural Order was a $.50 rare in the loony-bin when we named the deck, and since our deck is doing better than Natural Order....

No, ok, seriously, if anybody thinks of a better name, PM me and I'll consider it. I might even start a voting thread or something if I get a few ideas and can't decide.

[Master Shake]

The name came out before Progenitus was printed. Natural Order was a $.50 rare in the loony-bin when we named the deck, and since our deck is doing better than Natural Order....

No, ok, seriously, if anybody thinks of a better name, PM me and I'll consider it. I might even start a voting thread or something if I get a few ideas and can't decide.

How about WW/u What the deck has been called for over a decade? Or WWW for "Why is Weathered Wayfarer in here?.dec"

[MMogg]

The name came out before Progenitus was printed. Natural Order was a $.50 rare in the loony-bin when we named the deck, and since our deck is doing better than Natural Order....

No, ok, seriously, if anybody thinks of a better name, PM me and I'll consider it. I might even start a voting thread or something if I get a few ideas and can't decide.

How about calling it "Sliced Bread", based on 4eak's observation that you guys think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. :tongue: Along with Pebbles and Full English Breakfast, it continues a legacy (pun intended) of food-based nomenclature. :smile:

[Forbiddian]

Those suggestions are terrible, I'm glad my PM box wasn't clogged with those. :tongue:

To the first guy: Look at the color breakdown, it runs as much blue as white. You could just as easily call it "Mono Blue Control splashing White" as you could call it "White Weenie with Blue." :tongue:

Second guy: Especially since it just put up back to back top 8s in huge Legacy events, I'm pretty sure 4eak footmouthed himself about that comment. So no, that's not going to be the deck name. :tongue:

[MMogg]

Those suggestions are terrible, I'm glad my PM box wasn't clogged with those.

Especially since it just put up back to back top 8s in huge Legacy events, you can probably stfu about us "inflating the testing results" about now.

Dude, the ":tongue: " was a sign of playing around, as was the ":smile: ", but as usual you have the sense of humor of Skeletor. :rolleyes:

[Aggro_zombies]

Dude, the ":tongue: " was a sign of playing around, as was the ":smile: ", but as usual you have the sense of humor of Skeletor. :rolleyes:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but people like this are usually called "dicks."

[Forbiddian]

Fixed my original post to reflect the jovial tone of the matter of petty trolling.

[Phoenix Ignition]

. I might even start a voting thread or something if I get a few ideas and can't decide.

Hahaha Anus Mittens is an awesome name for a deck!

[pi4meterftw]

Personally I think the NoGoyf name is a horrible name, because it implies Natural-Order Goyf. The creators really should rename it.

Well, maybe, but definitely not because of ambiguity. Since when was NOing goyf a strategy? Also, it'd be NOGoyf if this were the case. It's more of a defining characteristic that we are goyfless than that we exist in the same universe as magic the gathering decks that play Natural Order and Tarmogoyf together in the same pile of 75.

[pi4meterftw]

How about WW/u What the deck has been called for over a decade? Or WWW for "Why is Weathered Wayfarer in here?.dec"

It's clear you've not studied the list and the games it has played. Why else would you ask a question like "Why is weathered wayfarer in here?" Questions that are less obvious like "Why is serra avenger in here" would not be so seemingly blissfully ignorant, but your question suggests that you not only have not studied the list, but have actively sought out misinformation about the deck. That and your ridiculous WWu suggestion. Have I said the deck is not fish, and not WWu?

Yes.

Hm... I wonder what we can conclude from this...

[georgjorge]

That you two seem to overreact a bit regarding anything that could in any way be interpreted as criticism of your pet deck?

[MattH]

One thing that got me about this tournament is this deck. It has Lavamancers in Threshold? I guess it's not too big of a deal considering he did well overall, but this is hearkening back to the argument of having Lavamancers and Barbarian Rings in the same deck. Kind of counter-productive. Whatever works I guess.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=30815
I know Simon, he plays at my store. He wanted to own the shit out of Merfolk, which was a good call (Fish are very popular b/c it's more or less legacy's 'budget' deck - about $250 or so for the whole thing? That's less than most Standard decks, and way less than Rubin Zoo in 1.x), and Lavamancer definitely fulfills that mission.


The name came out before Progenitus was printed. Natural Order was a $.50 rare in the loony-bin when we named the deck, and since our deck is doing better than Natural Order....

No, ok, seriously, if anybody thinks of a better name, PM me and I'll consider it. I might even start a voting thread or something if I get a few ideas and can't decide.
How about ZeroGoyf? Has the exact same underlying meaning, but without the misunderstanding.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but people like this are usually called "dicks."

Great, now I am thinking about Skeletor's dick. This is why people hate Mondays.

[Parcher]

Although it greatly dissapointed me to see how abyssmal the level of play has been for these events in LA, Dallas, and to a lesser degree in Charlotte, I have to say that it might suggest that it would be worth it to travel a bit more since the payout is so high. Like most here, I find it irritating that the largest coverage for Legacy is centered on the worst play.

[caiomarcos]

At least for me, even worst that all those bad plays was the Zoo with ZERO Price of Progress. The deck shouldn't be called Zoo, should be NoPoP!

[Forbiddian]

ZeroGoyf seems ok. I'll try to get used to it, see what happens.

[paK0]

NoNOPro would be fancy.

I think that just naming a deck after its components is kinda lame, but well, it is personal preference =).

[Phoenix Ignition]

I'm pretty sure renaming the deck is due to a couple things, but the most prominent was the announcers bashing the name for a good portion of the broadcast. "No goyf deck mirror match here" referring to the Merfolk and Imperial Painter match, due to their lack of goyfs. Or "Why do people keep saying it's 'no goyf' deck, it doesn't run green, obviously it has no goyf, that's a bad name, maybe if it had green and then didn't play goyf you could call it nogoyf"

I doubt Zero-goyf would be treated any differently.

I'd go with Colonel Pickin' Pants. It's a good name.

[MattH]

ZeroGoyf seems ok. I'll try to get used to it, see what happens.

Plus it has that sexy Z.

[luckme10]

How about "Over 9000!!!"

[Meister_Kai]

If I build NoGoyf, which is very much possible because the only expensive cards I need are the FOWs, I'm calling it Wayfarer Tempo. You can't stop me. I personally think a name like "NoGoyf" conjours an image of somebody who is very frustrated by Tarmogoyf and is trying to make a big deal about the card not being in the deck so they can brag to people. Its probably just all in my head though.

Seriously though, Wayfarer Tempo it is for me.

[crow_mw]

I personally think a name like "NoGoyf" conjours an image of somebody who is very frustrated by Tarmogoyf and is trying to make a big deal about the card not being in the deck so they can brag to people.

It has been repeated a numerous number of times, but with current naming conventions NoGoyf means Natural Order + Goyf which is exactly what that deck is not...

[Julian23]

I'll keep calling it Mother Courage and Her Children. You should get the reference.

[wolfstorm]

He was 14 and had been playing Magic for 10-12 hours straight. I wouldn't expect most of us to do better.

He hadn't eaten anything either. Also he mainly just screamed fuck and then went running around trying to blow off steam from punting the match.

[pi4meterftw]

Pending Matt's agreement, the deck will assume the name "Phoenix Ignition v0.6."

No matter what we name it, anybody choosing to name it differently, while permitted, would be making something like a grammatical mistake.

People don't exert direct control on the definitions and standards of grammar, it's more or less handed down from some authority like history. I understand what people mean when they say ridiculous phrases like "Ballin!" or "Dank" but it's not technically correct. Similarly here, the name of the deck will be whatever we come up (You're free to contribute ideas in the main NG thread), you're free to attach another string of letters to it if you wish, but it certainly will be awkward. It will be especially awkward if that string of letters is "Wayfarer tempo" since our deck doesn't even pretend to generate tempo. Yeah! Flipping fathom seer! How tempolicious. (See, this is another example of a string of letters not obeying grammatical conventions. Now you can't even accuse me of not giving examples.) I mean the deck has cards that aren't as slow as that, but tempo is like: stifling your opponent's land, and then playing a G for a 3/3, 1G for a 5/6 with wasteland and daze backup. We can't stifle, and our beats are much slower, and we win the late game. Nice tempo. Wayfarer control wouldn't be as far off, but then it doesn't have the ring of:

"Phoenix Ignition v0.6"

[Aggro_zombies]

Pending Matt's agreement, the deck will assume the name "Phoenix Ignition v0.6."

No matter what we name it, anybody choosing to name it differently, while permitted, would be making something like a grammatical mistake.

People don't exert direct control on the definitions and standards of grammar, it's more or less handed down from some authority like history. I understand what people mean when they say ridiculous phrases like "Ballin!" or "Dank" but it's not technically correct. Similarly here, the name of the deck will be whatever we come up (You're free to contribute ideas in the main NG thread), you're free to attach another string of letters to it if you wish, but it certainly will be awkward. It will be especially awkward if that string of letters is "Wayfarer tempo" since our deck doesn't even pretend to generate tempo. Yeah! Flipping fathom seer! How tempolicious. (See, this is another example of a string of letters not obeying grammatical conventions. Now you can't even accuse me of not giving examples.) I mean the deck has cards that aren't as slow as that, but tempo is like: stifling your opponent's land, and then playing a G for a 3/3, 1G for a 5/6 with wasteland and daze backup. We can't stifle, and our beats are much slower, and we win the late game. Nice tempo. Wayfarer control wouldn't be as far off, but then it doesn't have the ring of:

"Phoenix Ignition v0.6"
Has anyone ever told you guys that you have a tendency to come across as caustic, self-righteous dicks? Because you do.

[Julian23]

Has anyone ever told you guys that you have a tendency to come across as caustic, self-righteous dicks? Because you do.

Id much rather have that than a gross pile of people that lack to ability to express themselves in sentences of more than eight words while sounding amusing. When you're really convinced of your deck and did a lot of testing you have all the right in the world to appeal self-righteous. I couldn't care less about the way people present their expertise in certain fields (read: decks) if it is to my profit. Which in this case it is because I learned a lot about the deck by reading pi4meterftw's statements.

[Anusien]

When you're really convinced of your deck and did a lot of testing you have all the right in the world to appeal self-righteous.
There is a difference between righteous and self-righteous.

[pi4meterftw]

Has anyone ever told you guys that you have a tendency to come across as caustic, self-righteous dicks? Because you do.

This seems unfair, Phoenix totally trolled us with names like "Anus mittens" and then we come up with our name and you only say: wow, Pi4meterftw is a "caustic, self-righteous dick." I like humor, but the question is: why can't we joke around if he can joke around?

[Anusien]

This seems unfair, Phoenix totally trolled us with names like "Anus mittens" and then we come up with our name and you only say: wow, Pi4meterftw is a "caustic, self-righteous dick." I like humor, but the question is: why can't we joke around if he can joke around?
If people don't get your sarcasm, it's not their fault.

[hi-val]

I'll just continue to call it UW Wayfarer or the like.

Does the deck ever want a Dust Bowl, by the way? It creates some sick stack tricks with your lands-matter cards and you can feed it nearly every turn.

I am interested in playing around with the deck to see what it can do; it could be a great option for Merfolk-style players who are just looking at splashing into Legacy.

[MattH]

I'll just continue to call it UW Wayfarer or the like.

Now you're cooking with gas.

[paK0]

Does the deck ever want a Dust Bowl, by the way? It creates some sick stack tricks with your lands-matter cards and you can feed it nearly every turn.

.

Unlikely, most of the time you will have very few Lands in play. By the time you get to activate it you are:
- Winning, so it doesn't matter
- Loosing, and something like Dust Bowl won't change such situations.

[Nihil Credo]

By the time you get to activate it you are:
- Winning, so it doesn't matter

This meme needs to fucking die. Yes, digging you out of a losing position is one of the most important things a card can do, and you should make sure that a large part of your deck does it, but that's not the only thing we want from a card. It's certainly not a sufficient reason alone to dismiss it.

There's no binary "winning/losing" position; it's a sliding scale. If you are winning slightly, a card that solidifies your advantage can be pretty fucking good and will directly win you games by preventing your opponent's recovery.

The poster child for this category is Standstill: in order to do anything the card explicitly requires you to be winning, even if very slightly (i.e. a dead board but with you having better potential for manlands/Decrees in your deck). And yet it's the premier card drawing spell in Legacy.

In the case you're discussing, it might be possible (for example) that the deck has some issues keeping the opponent mana-screwed on the long term, and that Dust Bowl fixes that - by taking a winning position (opponent is Wastelanded to hell) and making sure it stays a winning position until the opponent gets to zero life. So, no, "if you're winning [having another card that helps you] doesn't matter" is not a valid or even true argument.

[pi4meterftw]

I'll just continue to call it UW Wayfarer or the like.

Does the deck ever want a Dust Bowl, by the way? It creates some sick stack tricks with your lands-matter cards and you can feed it nearly every turn.

I am interested in playing around with the deck to see what it can do; it could be a great option for Merfolk-style players who are just looking at splashing into Legacy.

It probably never wants a dustbowl. It's not that the effect isn't desirable (Which is what you argued) but that the cost of 4 effectively per turn is totally unmanageable. If dustbowl cost 2, T, sac a land instead to activate, and perhaps had something else mildly in its favor (Taps for W) we'd think about it, and at 1, T it'd probably be pretty ridiculous for the format. Against deck where we don't have inevitability, we're likely to finish them off before the end game anyway, and against decks against which our plan is to play endgame, it's not important to have dustbowl, as they'll usually be reeling from the blow of 3 Wastes. So the only possibility for a use of dustbowl is for decks in between, but the 4 to activate is too much for that "potential" to be realized.

[Phoenix Ignition]

This seems unfair, Phoenix totally trolled us with names like "Anus mittens" and then we come up with our name and you only say: wow, Pi4meterftw is a "caustic, self-righteous dick." I like humor, but the question is: why can't we joke around if he can joke around?

This is why I love you guys. Try doing a source search of anus mittens and you might be surprised. But as much as you think I'd be annoyed by using my name as the name of the deck, I'm actually a bit honored :cry:

[paK0]

So, no, "if you're winning [having another card that helps you] doesn't matter" is not a valid or even true argument.

Well, yeah, but instead of that card I'd rather have a card that helps me to come into a winning position in the first place.


About the sliding scale:
Right, but more often then not it is visible who is in a winning position. I believe that most of the time you do not need additional cards to ride to victory from there.

When you are having a race with a person that has only one leg chances are that there is no need to cut of his other for you to win.

Dust Bowl is like a final Nail in the coffin, but even without it the deck is pretty good at keeping an opponent down so the slot would be wasted.



And imho "winmore" is a perfectly valuable argument for dismissing cards.

[pi4meterftw]

This is why I love you guys. Try doing a source search of anus mittens and you might be surprised. But as much as you think I'd be annoyed by using my name as the name of the deck, I'm actually a bit honored :cry:

Oh we know what you were alluding to unless there was more than the cat-naming incident.

If you'd be honored, and we'd think it's funny, and I definitely don't attach a negative value to making you happy, then why not? Pending Matt's agreement...

[Forbiddian]

I'm naming it GreaterThanZur.


No, really, all further entries have to be better than "Land Hax."

Good luck.

[Anusien]

Zur never ran green. "Greater than X" means cutting Green from X deck. Consequently, Worse than X means to add Green.

[Bardo]

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/18671_Why_Bad_Things_Happened_to_Good_People_at_the_SCG_Fort_Worth_Legacy_Open.html

Wherein Head Judge, K. Binswanger, goes through the penalty upgrade in the T8.

[MMogg]

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/18671_Why_Bad_Things_Happened_to_Good_People_at_the_SCG_Fort_Worth_Legacy_Open.html

Wherein Head Judge, K. Binswanger, goes through the penalty upgrade in the T8.

Decent article . . . until he said:


. . . Tom Ross held on and refused to concede. I never asked him why he didn't concede, but it's entirely possible that he made James play it out to see if he would make a third mistake. That sort of behavior is not very sporting . . .

Has he ever seen a sport in his life? Part of sports is not only your excellence, but also your ability to outdo/outlast your opponents. Why is it all of a sudden unsporting to wait for your opponent to screw up? Is it any different than not conceding in Tennis? How many people become tired in the later sets of Tennis and make misplays? I don't know, but something really rubbed me the wrong way when he pretty much publicly calls holding on until the last moment "not very sporting". Because, you know, concession is oh so sporting. :rolleyes:

[Anusien]

Sporting conduct means something very specific in Magic. One of the Japanese pros was quite famous for physically stopping his opponents from missing their Pact trigger. That's sporting conduct. Unsporting conduct is laid out very clearly in the IPG; doing things like calling your opponents racial slurs is Unsporting Conduct. There's a whole range of behaviors that many people don't like that are legal. They are considered not sporting but not unsporting. This is what that sentence refers to. Sporting here refers more to "being a good sport" than "winning at sports".

[MMogg]

Sporting conduct means something very specific in Magic. One of the Japanese pros was quite famous for physically stopping his opponents from missing their Pact trigger. That's sporting conduct. Unsporting conduct is laid out very clearly in the IPG; doing things like calling your opponents racial slurs is Unsporting Conduct. There's a whole range of behaviors that many people don't like that are legal. They are considered not sporting but not unsporting. This is what that sentence refers to. Sporting here refers more to "being a good sport" than "winning at sports".

I have never read the IPG. Does it classify what is sporting? If not, how can he say it "isn't very sporting" to play the game and not concede? The next sentence he says it isn't unsporting conduct, so from what basis can he judge it "isn't very sporting"? Maybe I'm too pragmatic, but it is a competition and it is primarily a mental game, so I just cannot fathom how waiting for your opponent to screw up – either within the rules or by breaking them – is somehow deemed "not very sporting". :confused:

[Aggro_zombies]

I have never read the IPG. Does it classify what is sporting? If not, how can he say it "isn't very sporting" to play the game and not concede? The next sentence he says it isn't unsporting conduct, so from what basis can he judge it "isn't very sporting"? Maybe I'm too pragmatic, but it is a competition and it is primarily a mental game, so I just cannot fathom how waiting for your opponent to screw up – either within the rules or by breaking them – is somehow deemed "not very sporting". :confused:
What he's saying is that he personally feels it's not very sportsmanlike to continue to play a game you've virtually lost. He only won that game because his opponent violated the rules.

[MMogg]

What he's saying is that he personally feels it's not very sportsmanlike to continue to play a game you've virtually lost. He only won that game because his opponent violated the rules.

Yeah, I get that. I guess I just have a different personal criteria for sportsmanship in a top 8, highly competitive tournament. I can see how trying to psyche your opponent out or wear him down or distract him may be unsportsmanlike behaviour, but playing it out until you die? Not very sporting?! I guess I'm just a bastard at heart. :laugh:

[Aggro_zombies]

Yeah, I get that. I guess I just have a different personal criteria for sportsmanship in a top 8, highly competitive tournament. I can see how trying to psyche your opponent out or wear him down or distract him may be unsportsmanlike behaviour, but playing it out until you die? Not very sporting?! I guess I'm just a bastard at heart. :laugh:
Maybe. They were essentially going through the motions at that point, though. Zoo is not favored against 43lands in the absence of PoP and the kid had already made one mistake previously in the match. He may or may not have known about the prior match's warning, in which case he may have figured that the kid was tired and hoped he screwed up enough to make an unwinnable game winnable for the Zoo deck.

It's one thing to try to win through your own skill, and it's another to wait until your opponent shows you the win condition (which he may also have been doing). I would not be tremendously proud to say that I won a match because I decided to keep playing in the distant hope my opponent fucked up badly enough to get a game loss, though.

EDIT: Anusien believes he was waiting to win on a technicality, which is generally frowned upon. Think about the kind of people who call the judge for trivial things: it shows that your opponent doesn't have the balls to win like a real man, so instead he tries to get free wins by rules lawyering. Technically, if they find a fault, you have broken the rules, but it's still a cheap shot and the kind of people who say, "But a win is a win" are generally unsavory characters.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I completely agree with Mmogg. The kid wasn't very bright either (whether it was natural ability or fatigue, who knows), and I was putting him at about 15% chance to just deck himself out of sheer stupidity of not attacking earlier. And there were ~ 800 viewers watching, no one really wants to see someone scoop. How often do people get pissed off on MWS from someone scooping and leaving too early?

I think it's less sportsmanlike to just quit, regardless of his intent (waiting for a misplay or the kid to deck himself). We've all heard tales, or at least I have, of the combo player who sides out the kill condition and wins because the opponent scoops it up when he starts going off.

[FoulQ]

I completely agree with Mmogg. The kid wasn't very bright either (weather it was natural ability or fatigue, who knows), and I was putting him at about 15% chance to just deck himself out of sheer stupidity of not attacking earlier. And there were ~ 800 viewers watching, no one really wants to see someone scoop. How often do people get pissed off on MWS from someone scooping and leaving too early?

I think it's less sportsmanlike to just quit, regardless of his intent (waiting for a misplay or the kid to deck himself). We've all heard tales, or at least I have, of the combo player who sides out the kill condition and wins because the opponent scoops it up when he starts going off.

This. I agree with Phoenix and Mmogg too. It's the finals of a damn large tournament. If there is a .00001% chance of winning, why would you not keep playing?

[Anusien]

My point is that there's no reason to hate on Tom Ross. That what he was doing (not conceding) may seem a little mean, but it's not illegal. My personal feelings are irrelevant; a player is never under an obligation to concede.

[pi4meterftw]

My point is that there's no reason to hate on Tom Ross. That what he was doing (not conceding) may seem a little mean, but it's not illegal. My personal feelings are irrelevant; a player is never under an obligation to concede.

Good article. I think you should recognize though that magic is essentially a mixture of some luck and not making mistakes. Chess is all about not making mistakes. In chess it's even more extreme: if you had to resign every time your opponent would win if he played optimally, you'd resign every match.

The situation here is analogous.

[Anusien]

Thanks for all the positive feedback! I was worried this would blow up in my face, so I appreciate people not being on the millionth anti-judge tirade.

For some reason people seem to think I mind Tom Ross not conceding. I don't. I'm just clarifying for those who care why Tom did nothing illegal.

[luckme10]

i don't know about you guys, but if I made it to the finals of a SCG 5k for the first time. I wouldn't want my last move to be I scoop, I'd want to savor every moment of the finals and try to burn the last moment into my mind.

[dahcmai]

I think I would have had to give the win to the guy. Concede once I noticed what the judges were talking about if they let me. He had the game if you watched it. If I was in that position against Lands playing Zoo, I could see it a mile away, it was over. The only thing you can hope for is for someone to be tired and deck themselves or something. Lands can do that on accident since it needs a few Dredges with Ring to kill with it if it can't attack in with the man-lands.

I wouldn't want to have a win based on that. They split the money ahead of time anyway so it's not like it made much difference. Ratings didn't even come into play.

[Tha Gunslinga]

I haven't seen anyone blaming the judging staff. You'd have to be a fucking moron to do that. There are rules to the game. They will be enforced.

[Parcher]

I certainly have nothing bad to say about the judging at this event. Especially after the Cheatyface Ichorid debacle at Charlotte.

The one thing that no one seems to have mentioned, almost definitely due to the age of the player, was the possibility that he was cheating. Lands is a difficult deck to play well, and he got to the final. It's quite possible he was making the same "mistakes" throughout the tournament, and without the cameras and judges, they went unnoticed. Especially with such a fringe deck, and such an inexperienced player-base at the tournament.

I have not even the suggestion that this is even theoretically possible, but when thought of in those circumstances, I can see why the rule, and resulting judgements had to be made.

[FoulQ]

@ Parcher, the only problem with that theory is, why would he attempt to cheat when he was just going through the motions then at the end of the finals?

[MattH]

Magic is a game of skill, and one of the skills being tested is ability to comply with the tournament rules as well as the game rules. Shrug.