Legacy Will Be Availble on MTGO, Soon.

[Giles]

From here. (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/72)


The Legacy format will debut on Magic Online (albeit a few cards short, for the time being, of the paper format).

Discuss.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I'm not dumping... what 600$ into MTGO to make a legacy deck I already own.

[Julian23]

I'm glad I collected some Legacy staples while prices were low.

[Giles]

I am all for Legacy being a part of MTGO. Since all that I can think it does is bring hype and more testing in our format.
If I played MTGO and had more money then I knew what to do, I would get a legacy collection on MTGO.

[Illissius]

They also say they're going to print good blue cards. Whether that's in a Standard or Legacy context or both, I don't know. But be very scared, to be safe.

[MattH]

I thought Master's Edition III was the last one, good to see that's not the case. Maybe they'll re-include the duals and Force of Will and Oath and Survival and so on, to up the supply, because those cards are tough as nails to find online (the Exodus release was a disaster, and drafts don't happen much, so the total number of online Oath of Druids numbers in the hundreds! For every mtgo player on the planet!).

[menace13]

Oath is fine being in low supply as it is banned in Legacy anyway.
The Dual lands from MED2 and FoW are going to become hard to find.
So excitied that they are putting Legacy on MtGO and i feel it is in no small part due to the SCG opens.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

This will be great for testing...and soon we can start a "Beating your head against a wall on MTGO" thread. Can't wait!

[mchainmail]

Oath is fine being in low supply as it is banned in Legacy anyway.
The Dual lands from MED2 and FoW are going to become hard to find.
So excitied that they are putting Legacy on MtGO and i feel it is in no small part due to the SCG opens.

FOW is selling for $59 on MTGOTraders and Daze is $10... something tells me Wizards needs to lower the cost of entry if they want any hope of success...(although duals are still 40% lower than their physical counterparts, and cb/top are each under $1)

[menace13]

Yeah FoW is 60$ and Daze is 10$ but the other staples are all lower than.
Esp the older cards like Moat and Tabernacle, Tropical and Volcanic are both 15$ right now While U Sea is 32 and Tundra at 23.

Banging your head on mtgo thread.....priceless can not even wait to see those!

[MattH]

Oath is fine being in low supply as it is banned in Legacy anyway.
The Dual lands from MED2 and FoW are going to become hard to find.
So excitied that they are putting Legacy on MtGO and i feel it is in no small part due to the SCG opens.

Oath is more relevant for Classic, but the same argument applies to City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, and Survival of the Fittest.

[Julian23]

Did you notice you're paying for bytes, right?

When watching TV you're doing the same. This kind of argument is sooo 2002..


Oath is more relevant for Classic, but the same argument applies to City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, and Survival of the Fittest.

Glad I picked up my playset of SotF when they were still @ 11 during Ex-Ex-Ex Drafts. After they stopped offering those Drafts Survival shot up to like 28 in less than a week.
/edit: Latest CardBot rates Survival at 34, holy shit!

[MattH]

Glad I picked up my playset of SotF when they were still @ 11 during Ex-Ex-Ex Drafts. After they stopped offering those Drafts Survival shot up to like 28 in less than a week.
/edit: Latest CardBot rates Survival at 34, holy shit!

I hear tell that the prices aren't even the biggest problem; the problem is FINDING any for sale at all, at any price. Exodus was ridiculously under-opened. There's too few out there for any kind of market forces to apply and judge the card's value, so prices are pretty much just a stab in the dark.

[stuckpixel]

I've already done a bit of stocking up on a few select staples - but Wizards is going to need to re-release a lot of cards somehow if it wants legacy online to work. There is no way I'm going to pay $240 for online FoWs, and another $40 for dazes.

[TrialByFire]

From the same article on a side note:


• Some good blue cards will be printed!

LOL

[walkerdog]

I'm not trying to be negative, but how many people are putting it off now, but are going to try in a year or two, and will end up frustrated with card prices? As it is, all of the duals are available for 32 or less, Goyf, FoW, LED, and Mox Diamond are your big money cards and other than that, it's fairly reasonable. For a few hundred dollars (not chump change of course, but not terrible), you can get in now and have a deck or three. In a year or so, I think a lot of prices will rise by quite a bit, leaving a lot of people frustrated with trying to play on MTGO.

[Forbiddian]

Wizards is drastically increasing the demand for all Legacy cards online.

I honestly think that they are going to release some back into the environment. EDIT: By "release back into the environment" I mean: allow people to exchange bytes for bytes.

[walkerdog]

Wizards is drastically increasing the demand for all Legacy cards online.

I honestly think that they are going to release some back into the environment. EDIT: By "release back into the environment" I mean: allow people to exchange bytes for bytes.

They'll have rotating drafts of various old formats (already do), but do people really want to rely on drafting to get those cards?

[Koby]

Sadly, when the format is created online, it will still lack several key cards that make Legacy, Legacy.

Masques block, Urza's Destiny, Maze of Ith, among other archetype defining cards.

[Aggro_zombies]

It's not worth it.

Even setting prices and the lack of a complete card pool aside, card availability will skew the metagame heavily in favor of decks based mostly on recent cards (such as Zoo, Merfolk, and Dredge) while decks like control or Counterbalance will show up less often online than in real life due to the much greater scarcity of key components. It'll be like how online and real-life Extended results don't often match up because the online decks tend to be biased in favor of cheaper-to-build options (see: Scapeshift, an awful deck that did well online for a while).

[walkerdog]

It's not worth it.

Even setting prices and the lack of a complete card pool aside, card availability will skew the metagame heavily in favor of decks based mostly on recent cards (such as Zoo, Merfolk, and Dredge) while decks like control or Counterbalance will show up less often online than in real life due to the much greater scarcity of key components. It'll be like how online and real-life Extended results don't often match up because the online decks tend to be biased in favor of cheaper-to-build options (see: Scapeshift, an awful deck that did well online for a while).

If control/Countertop don't show up, it'll more likely be due to being bad in the format at the time. Zoo/Mer/Dredge, while fairly cheap, still use expensive staples (Duals/FoW/Led), and it's not like those decks don't get played a lot IRL due to card availability/cost. A high % of the online players I know that play Classic (Current "eternal format online) have those decks more or less ready. They just aren't very good right now.

EDIT

That's not to say the meta won't be warped in some way, shape or form, but the reality is that most of the best players will be running the best decks.

[Koby]

It's not worth it.

Even setting prices and the lack of a complete card pool aside, card availability will skew the metagame heavily in favor of decks based mostly on recent cards (such as Zoo, Merfolk, and Dredge) while decks like control or Counterbalance will show up less often online than in real life due to the much greater scarcity of key components. It'll be like how online and real-life Extended results don't often match up because the online decks tend to be biased in favor of cheaper-to-build options (see: Scapeshift, an awful deck that did well online for a while).

EDIT: I failed reading comprehension.

I agree that the majority of decks will be budget oriented, but the normal DTB decks will surface and overtake the top ranks after a settling period. CB-top is fairly cheap to build if you own an extended cardpool. You can even sub in the Shocklands and still come out fine. (For Bant CB-tops decks, that's easily do-able).

[Aggro_zombies]

EDIT: I failed reading comprehension.

I agree that the majority of decks will be budget oriented, but the normal DTB decks will surface and overtake the top ranks after a settling period. CB-top is fairly cheap to build if you own an extended cardpool. You can even sub in the Shocklands and still come out fine. (For Bant CB-tops decks, that's easily do-able).
The problem is that top-tier decks are less likely to "filter to the top" if comparatively few people have them built. You can build Ichorid without LED and the only remotely expensive card in Merfolk is Force, and neither of those decks are really tier one.

The other thing is that people tend to want to build tier one decks, and card availability will make that difficult at best. For those of us who aren't on MODO at all, getting into online Legacy now is pretty retarded expenses-wise, but waiting until later is only going to make things worse as a limited supply of staples goes completely dry.

Some decks that are marginally played but very good may not crop up at all, and the online format is sure to generate Legacy versions of "the Scapeshift deck" (i.e., a budget deck that does well in an online meta but is mediocre at a paper tournament).

EDIT: Of course, you could look at online data as simply being another fragment of a still largely regional Legacy "metagame." It'll probably be no wackier than the MBA/Extirpate-infested Tucson meta.

[Forbiddian]

The problem is that top-tier decks are less likely to "filter to the top" if comparatively few people have them built. You can build Ichorid without LED and the only remotely expensive card in Merfolk is Force, and neither of those decks are really tier one.

The other thing is that people tend to want to build tier one decks, and card availability will make that difficult at best. For those of us who aren't on MODO at all, getting into online Legacy now is pretty retarded expenses-wise, but waiting until later is only going to make things worse as a limited supply of staples goes completely dry.

Some decks that are marginally played but very good may not crop up at all, and the online format is sure to generate Legacy versions of "the Scapeshift deck" (i.e., a budget deck that does well in an online meta but is mediocre at a paper tournament).

EDIT: Of course, you could look at online data as simply being another fragment of a still largely regional Legacy "metagame." It'll probably be no wackier than the MBA/Extirpate-infested Tucson meta.


You claim that Merfolk isn't tier 1, but it's in almost every Top 8, and in force.

It had 2 top 8s in St. Louis, a T16 in LA, and 3 Top 8s and 2 more T16s in Dallas. It has more Top 8s than any other deck, and in the last two SCGs where data are available, it won 56.5% of its games.

It will probably be overplayed online because it's cheap, but to claim it's not tier 1 is crazy. Only NoGoyf, Bant (and only if you just look at the non-NO kind), Belcher, and Stax (and only if you reject the Stax decks called Armageddon Stax and Mono White Stax) had a higher game/match win percentage during those tournaments.


I actually think in the paper format (at least for US Metas), Merfolk is the only true metagame staple. Perhaps it's even the new Goblins: Yeah, it has bad matchups, but on the whole it performs very well and tons of people play it. If you can count on one thing, it's seeing Merfolk. If it develops as 20%+ of the online meta, that might be about about what it is in the paper format.

And anyway, if Merfolk isn't Tier 1, what is?

[chokin]

Average Tucson Player Mindset:
I'm playing black! I need Extirpate!
I'm not playing black! I need to splash for Extirpate!
This deck is fine on it's own, but needs more Extirpate!

Merfolk is a solid deck I think. I really do think Zoo is better though.

[Aggro_zombies]

Average Tucson Player Mindset:
I'm playing black! I need Extirpate!
I'm not playing black! I need to splash for Extirpate!
This deck is fine on it's own, but needs more Extirpate!

Merfolk is a solid deck I think. I really do think Zoo is better though.
This is relevant to the point I made in passing.

The problem is that Merfolk has a glaringly bad matchup that also happens to be a common deck. Your average Zoo deck will roflstomp your average Merfolk deck into oblivion. The reason Merfolk is so popular is because it's the cheapest and best deck for new entrants into the format aside from Dredge, which has a much higher learning curve due to how easy it is to hate and how important many of the deck's decisions are. I expect that the deck will increase in popularity as the season goes on regardless of what the format does because of those factors.

The deck is solid, but cyclically tier one. I'd say it's definitely Tier 1.5 most of the time, except when the meta shifts in favor of it.

EDIT: Also, the Extirpate thing gets really, really old. I scooped on Saturday to MBA because I hate playing against that deck and $20 or $30 (or whatever it was) prize was not enough to make me want to sit through it.

[Koby]

Truth be told, back when Classic was in transition to Vintage Lite (prior to FTV: Exile giving us Tinker, Balance, Strip Mine, Channel, etc); the top decks were: Aggro Loam, Merfolk, Zoo, and CB varients. And Elves (but Earthcraft is banned in Legacy). Point is, there had been some expensive decks, but it usually comes down to: Merfolk beats decks that beat Zoo. Decks that beat Zoo beat Zoo. And Zoo beats Merfolk.

Now lots of people played Elves and RDW, but after a few weeks of their failed attempts to break into the prize placings, they either stopped playing or switched to better decks. This will inevitably happen; as I witnessed (and documented) over the summer.

Dual land/FOW availability be damned. People will pay high costs to play online because of the availability of tournaments around the clock.

[Forbiddian]

The problem is that Merfolk has a glaringly bad matchup that also happens to be a common deck. Your average Zoo deck will roflstomp your average Merfolk deck into oblivion. The reason Merfolk is so popular is because it's the cheapest and best deck for new entrants into the format aside from Dredge, which has a much higher learning curve due to how easy it is to hate and how important many of the deck's decisions are. I expect that the deck will increase in popularity as the season goes on regardless of what the format does because of those factors.

The deck is solid, but cyclically tier one. I'd say it's definitely Tier 1.5 most of the time, except when the meta shifts in favor of it.

Last post on this off-topic: If you think that Zoo is Tier 1, keep in mind that there's more much more ANT than Zoo, and more Belcher + ANT than there is Zoo + Goblins. ANT beats up on Zoo just as bad as Zoo beats Merfolk, so using your own criterion: Zoo, ANT, and Merfolk are all out of the top tier because of the rock/paper/scissors action. I can't think of any decks that win a lot and have consistent matchups. Maybe Bant is alone at Tier 1, even though not very many people are playing it?


I simply go by win percentages. Merfolk has consistently been fronting a 55-60%+ match win percentage for the last year, which is higher than virtually every other archetype. It's the only deck that's maintained such a high win percentage through all the metagame shifts.

The fact that it's cheap to build doesn't detract from the fact that it's good. If you don't draw any Zoo or Goblins players (or get lucky in those matches), you stand a good chance to make the top 8. Which is pretty much what you can say about Zoo or Goblins or ANT, just replace the matchups you don't want to see.



Anyway, if Wizards really releases Legacy for Magic Online, I think I'll probably sign up. I get a lot more Legacy action in San Diego than most people do (and it's higher quality + no douchebags except this one store owner), but I like playing in tournaments more regularly. If it's pretty cheap (I've got a couple of grand saved up -- don't want to waste it all, but I could spend some).

[menace13]

The meta online is very varied as of late, goes on a day to day basis, but i see: AnT, Smallpox and Bant Fish often.
Of course Oath, Bazaar Ichorid and Merfolk are constants in the Daily Events as well as a few other archetypes.

I took 3 top 6's with ug Merfolk and top 3 with Zoo all Legacy Decks (aside the Strip mine in Merfolk), use these forums like an addict.
Lists are published daily and the packs are Tempest/Stronghold/Exodus, all in all pretty fun.