From the Valut: Relics

[nodahero]

On the Wizard's website under the Arcana section it was announced today that the next FtV is Relics AKA 15 artifacts from Magics past in the typical fashion of the other FtVs plus one new artifact from the set to be released in October.

The piece of art shown on the page looks like it could be either a Sol Ring or Larry Nevin's Disk but that is only a theory.

Any ideas what the cards will be?

Also did we ever determine if cards on the no reprint list were legit options for special sets such as this?

[from Cairo]

Any ideas what the cards will be?


Black Lotus
Mox Sapphire
Mox Jet
Mox Ruby
Mox Emerald
Mox Pearl
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Sol Ring
Lotus Petal
Mox Diamond
Voltaic Key
Grim Monolith
Chrome Mox
New Artifact

:eek: :rolleyes:

[vigilante]

The piece of art shown on the page looks like it could be either a Sol Ring or Larry Nevin's Disk but that is only a theory.

I agree, although I'd think Nevinyrral's Disk would be the more likely of the two, if only because 1) the hand holding the thing is kind of a homage to Disk's original art, and 2) Sol Ring's already been done as a Judge foil. Also, those streaks of light/matter/whatever look like they're being sucked into the artifact, as opposed to being radiated out from it (as you'd expect from Sol Ring).

That said, idle speculation is idle until the product is released.

For reference:

http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/arcana/356_u1ogtxtfpl.jpg

[AngryTroll]

http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/arcana/356_u1ogtxtfpl.jpg

They just sold one of...those. Nev's Disk, I hope! I remember being super excited to pluck three Disks out of a dollar bin. I still love that card, and that art will look spectacular.

[Otter]

Also did we ever determine if cards on the no reprint list were legit options for special sets such as this?

The wording on the reprint list allows them to make "premium versions" of the cards. Technically this means that they can reprint anything on the list in whatever manner they want, as long as it's foil. However, their current interpretation appears to be that they won't do it unless it's a giveaway and not a marketable product. For instance, we've gotten judge foil Negators, but FTV:E didn't have anything on the reserved list. So really it doesn't mean much of anything either way. If they wake up and decide that they want to reprint all of the jewelry in one of these From the Vault things, they can, but it is unlikely at best.

[MMogg]

There must be Nev. Disk or Engineered Explosives, I imagine. Also, Sol Ring would be in line with the power level of FTV: Exiled.

Maybe Aether Vial? Hmm, Chalice? Sunglasses of Urza? :wink: How cool would a Tolarian Academy be in there?

[Nidd]

5 $ that Null Rod will be included.

[MMogg]

5 $ that Null Rod will be included.

Probably right.

Also, I was thinking, for nostalgia, I wish they'd do Masticore.

[Skeggi]

5 $ that Null Rod will be included.
I'm also guessing Voltaic Key. I can't really think of any other reprintable artifacts that are often used in Vintage and aren't available in foil yet, but if there are, they'll also have a shot.

[coraz86]

I was thinking, for nostalgia, I wish they'd do Masticore.

This.

Also, if the set includes foil Cursed Scrolls, I'm buying four. I know it's barely usable anymore, but it's always been a favorite of mine, and I'd kill to have shiny ones.

[Skeggi]

Right, Cursed Scroll and Scroll Rack could be in there too.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

I hope they throw something meaningless in there, like Ancient Den(and just ancient den, none of the others.)

Voltaic Key is a given if you ask me. That are has to be Disk. So what do you think the "Lights" card will be like? Do you think this is our return to Mirrodin?

[Atwa]

I predict:
The Goods
1 Masticore
2 Sol Ring/Mana Vault (either or both to represent how we used to pay for spells in the past :))
3 Memory Jar
4 Cursed Scroll
5 Nevinyrral's Disk
6 Null Rod

The Filler:
7 Millstone (it's a classic)
8 Onulet
9 Icy Manipulator
10 Juggernaut
11 Winter Orb
12 Zuran Orb

Will fill in later:
13
(14) And either Candelabra or Mana Crypt to add some value to the box (like they did with Berserk)

I would however laugh my ass off if they fill 5 spots with Throne of Bone, Iron Star etc :) They are relics of the past after all.

EDIT:
Something just came up to me. What if the 15th card (the preview for the next fall block, which is speculated to be related to either Mirrodin, Phyrexia of both) would be Planeswalker Karn? I know it's far fetched, but it could make sense. The only living famous planeswalker still being alive and has a hand in the story of both planes in Magic history is Karn. He also happens to be an artifact(creature) and although he would be a good card (the US version) to print in a FTV, that wouldn't make much sense if they decide to make a planeswalker card of him.

On the other hand, printing a planeswalker as a Legend in a FTV when he is getting his own planeswalker card in the near future has already been done (Nicol Bolas), and having Karn in a set would a selling point for the new set. Something tells me they don't want to spoil the suprise (and sales).

Anyway, it was just a random idea, but an awesome idea at that :)

[Dan Turner]

If they printed an Icy in this I would buy 4 just to add to my collection. I have at least 4 of it in every language and every printing ever.

[JeroenC]

Onulet? Why on earth Onulet?

Odds are Arcbound Ravager will be in it. Other than that, obv Disk, probably Icy Manipulator and some Scroll thing (Rack or Cursed).

Also, why on earth would they need to "add" value when it would already have a promo Sol Ring?

[emidln]

I'm still pissed that my Lotus Petals and Mystical Tutors from FTV:E have a shitty foiling process that marks them in sleeves. Until they fix that, these products seem worthless.

[Atwa]

Also, why on earth would they need to "add" value when it would already have a promo Sol Ring?

A normal Sol Ring can be bought for $5 and there already is a Judge Reward Sol Ring. That FTV Ring isn't going to be worth a lot.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

@atwa: I like the theory of putting Karn in this, it's highly valid.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

Icy Manipulator? Really? We do NOT need another version of that floating around.

Karn would be super-cool, as would Masticore...and I'd laugh forever to see a chimera randomly in there, but that's not gonna happen.

[Koby]

Putting Sol Ring in this set would allow it to appear on MTGO; while at the same time making Legacy an online format for MTGO.

I second the assertion on Karn, and Icy Manipulator.

[whienot]

I agree on Voltaic Key, Null Rod and Winter Orb. I'm going to throw out Helm of Awakning as a potential addition and hope Phyrexian Dreadnought gets a foily makeover.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Also did we ever determine if cards on the no reprint list were legit options for special sets such as this?

berserk is on the reserve list.

[Aleksandr]

I believe that there will be Relic of Progenitus in it.

[Otter]

berserk is on the reserve list.

Incorrect, it was removed with the rest of the uncommons before Onslaught block.

[mossivo1986]

I'd be shocked if they didn't print mana crypt in this. I mean seriously a card that was free to people who purchased a book, and is now costing players upwards of 45 american? Really?

It seems legit that it would be reprinted in this new and exciting set of cards.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

I'd be shocked if they didn't print mana crypt in this. I mean seriously a card that was free to people who purchased a book, and is now costing players upwards of 45 american? Really?

It seems legit that it would be reprinted in this new and exciting set of cards.

Oy, I hope not...that's the kind of card that drove the last vault set to crazy costs, and I was hoping to actually pick one of these up.

[sunshine]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Ivory Tower and Black Vise. There's some good old school flavor.

Edit: For people who don't feel like navigating the train wreck that is WotC's web site:

Here's a link (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/356).

[Enigma]

At 34.99US I highly doubt there will be any Mana Crypt in this. But Nev Disk, Relic of progenitus, Null Rod, Sol Ring, Aether Vial, Icy Manipulator a Spellbomb... all have an high pourcentage to be. The Karn planeswalker would be really nice, but it is at 85% unlikely.

Maybe Mindslaver...

P-M

[Ebinsugewa]

At 34.99US

Same as FTV: Exiled.

[Enigma]

Oh really? So it is just because of the rarity that merch are selling those at 100US?

Damn, we are so stupid guys.

P-M

[Raptor]

Oh really? So it is just because of the rarity that merch are selling those at 100US?

Damn, we are so stupid guys.

P-M

Yes, stores bought them at limited quantity for about ~35$ and sold them at about 3 times the price they bought it for.

Some stores even sold them on ebay.

[Ebinsugewa]

Economics 101 people. :rolleyes:

[Adan]

Economics 101 people. :rolleyes:

Yep, that's why I doubt that everyone will be buying 4, because the price will skyrocket withing just a week after the release, I bet.

Time Vault would be cool, also to have a updated version after it got errated after 1456789 times... j/k.

But that picture really looks like Nevin's Disk, so I guess there will be artifacts like Winter Orb and Null Rod, but I bet there will be also some crap like... Jaydame Tome or however it is spelled.

[dahcmai]

Well, I figure since they won't re-print the power obviously these will be more than likely the suspects included. I'm sure they will take into account older decks from past winning decks.


N Disc - The picture really looks like it.
Null Rod
Cursed Scroll
Sol Ring - Too much of an EDH fav
Steel Golem
Masticore
Ivory Tower
Winter Orb
Black Vise
The Rack
Mindslaver
If we're really lucky we'll get Lion's Eye Diamond, but I doubt it.
Grim Monolith


I will seriously fume if they include Skullclamp



Also, Cursed Scroll isn't useless. I play Fetchland Tendrils in a meta full of Merfolk and other blue based stuff. I had to have some sort of edge and Cursed Scroll was it. I literally board in 4 of them and dump them 1st turn with the pile of mana that is a tendrils deck and power them all up each turn. It's truly amusing and oddly works. Merfolk don't like the Scroll much.

[freakish777]

http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/arcana/356_u1ogtxtfpl.jpg


Guys this is obviously Naked Singularity, how come none of you see it??

[Kanabo]

I predict a few:

relic of progenitus
tormods crypt?
sol ring
sensei's divining top (probs not since it was in the exiled ftv)

[Illissius]

What is this FtV thing?

[rockout]

Aether Vial foil? mm?

I'd personally like to see null roll, nev's disk, and sol ring everything past that is gravy.

[dahcmai]

What is this FtV thing?



It's one of the special sets Wizards comes out with here and there. From the Vault: Dragons and From the Vault: Exiled were the only other two. Relics is supposed to be the next one and we're just speculating on the contents.

[MMogg]

Well, I figure since they won't re-print the power obviously these will be more than likely the suspects included. I'm sure they will take into account older decks from past winning decks.


N Disc - The picture really looks like it.
Null Rod
Cursed Scroll
Sol Ring - Too much of an EDH fav
Steel Golem
Masticore
Ivory Tower
Winter Orb
Black Vise
The Rack
Mindslaver
If we're really lucky we'll get Lion's Eye Diamond, but I doubt it.
Grim Monolith


I will seriously fume if they include Skullclamp


That's a pretty good estimation I think. They can't all be great cards.

Didn't they include Skullclamp in the last one? Also Lotus Petal. There's no way they will include them again. Only 3 FTVs and already repeating printings. No way.

Also, please God no Steel Golem. I'd rather Phyrexian War Beast if I had to have some mediocre 3/4 for 3.

[Shabbaman]

Mana vault has to be in here. It's hard to get, it's not on the reserve list and it's worth a lot. A pity I already have one. As I'm not playing it anyway, perhaps this is the right time to get rid of it.

[PaRa]

i would love to see following but i guess they print only around ~ 5/15 of them:

N Disc
Null Rod
Cursed Scroll
Sol Ring
Masticore
Ivory Tower
Winter Orb
Black Vise
The Rack
Mindslaver
Lion's Eye Diamond
Mox Diamond
Phyrexian Dreadnought
Zuran Orb

Lion's / Nought / Mox would make the set just too expensive...

[from Cairo]

EDIT:
Something just came up to me. What if the 15th card (the preview for the next fall block, which is speculated to be related to either Mirrodin, Phyrexia of both) would be Planeswalker Karn? I know it's far fetched, but it could make sense. The only living famous planeswalker still being alive and has a hand in the story of both planes in Magic history is Karn. He also happens to be an artifact(creature) and although he would be a good card (the US version) to print in a FTV, that wouldn't make much sense if they decide to make a planeswalker card of him.

On the other hand, printing a planeswalker as a Legend in a FTV when he is getting his own planeswalker card in the near future has already been done (Nicol Bolas), and having Karn in a set would a selling point for the new set. Something tells me they don't want to spoil the suprise (and sales).

Anyway, it was just a random idea, but an awesome idea at that :)

This is a cool idea. A colorless/artifact Planeswalker seems like it has the potential to be completely nuts too.

[Nightmare]

I'd like to see Candelabra of Tawnos foiled. That is all.

[Fuzzy]

I think i'll sell my Japanese LEDs. I'm still angry about Petals and Mystical Tutors...

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Putting Sol Ring in this set would allow it to appear on MTGO; while at the same time making Legacy an online format for MTGO.... Where Sol Ring would still be banned unless they make a completely different banned list for MTGO Legacy. Because Sol Ring is, after all, banned in Legacy.


Fixed. :wink:

[xXxBretWeedxXx]

I think i'll sell my Japanese LEDs. I'm still angry about Petals and Mystical Tutors...

LED is on the reserved list, Petal and MTutor were not. If they didn't break the reserved list for FTV: Exiled they won't do it for this set either. Sadly Adam this is also why there wont be any foil menorahs.

[mossivo1986]

first off where can one find the reserved list?

second off enigma if ftv had beserk a plus 50 dollar card how can u possibly think that crypt at 34.99 isnt a viable reprint? i mean seriously as i said before it was a limited edition givaway for buying the book as i remember.

also virtually every edh should and can run it. i c no sense in your theory.

[hjalte]

search for "magic reserved list". It's the first result you get on Google.

[Skeggi]

LED is on the reserved list.
This has often proved not to be an argument; if Wizards want to print something, they'll just 'update' the list.

[Ebinsugewa]

LED is on the reserved list, Petal and MTutor were not. If they didn't break the reserved list for FTV: Exiled they won't do it for this set either.

[Skeggi]

If... according to that logic we have no chance on a few of our favorites:

Gauntlet of Might
Candelabra of Tawnos
Helm of Obedience
Null Rod
Karn, Silver Golem
Memory Jar

I'm not saying it's not true. I'm just saying these are on the so-called reserved list which has as far as I know always been a bit flexible.

[Nightmare]

If... according to that logic we have no chance on a few of our favorites:

Gauntlet of Might
Candelabra of Tawnos
Helm of Obedience
Null Rod
Karn, Silver Golem
Memory Jar

I'm not saying it's not true. I'm just saying these are on the so-called reserved list which has as far as I know always been a bit flexible.

The reserve list very clearly specifies that it's fine to reprint those cards as promos, as long as they're "premium" cards - which generally means foil. These will all be foil, so the reserve list does not apply.

[MMogg]

The reserve list very clearly specifies that it's fine to reprint those cards as promos, as long as they're "premium" cards - which generally means foil. These will all be foil, so the reserve list does not apply.

Sweet!


Black Lotus
Mox Sapphire
Mox Jet
Mox Ruby
Mox Emerald
Mox Pearl

:wink:

[Solaran_X]

The reserve list very clearly specifies that it's fine to reprint those cards as promos, as long as they're "premium" cards - which generally means foil. These will all be foil, so the reserve list does not apply.
Except these are not promotional cards.

Promotional cards are things like the GP foils, Judge foils, DCI foils...stuff like that. FtV:Dragons and FtV:Exiled were not promo sets, since they were designed to be sold. And by being sold directly from Wizards, they cannot be classified as a "promotional object". Wizards even went on record during FtV:Exiled's time before release saying that they would adhere to the Reserved List for the FtV products.

Any card on the Reserved List COULD be reprinted as a Judge foil or GP/PT foil, however, since those are given away as promotional items to Judges and players in Grand Prixes and Pro Tours.

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/149


Oh, and there's one more thing: the cards in italics are the ones that are on the Reserved List, which means they’re not in From the Vault: Exiled.

[Nightmare]

Except these are not promotional cards.

Promotional cards are things like the GP foils, Judge foils, DCI foils...stuff like that. FtV:Dragons and FtV:Exiled were not promo sets, since they were designed to be sold. And by being sold directly from Wizards, they cannot be classified as a "promotional object". Wizards even went on record during FtV:Exiled's time before release saying that they would adhere to the Reserved List for the FtV products.

Any card on the Reserved List COULD be reprinted as a Judge foil or GP/PT foil, however, since those are given away as promotional items to Judges and players in Grand Prixes and Pro Tours.

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/149

Promo is a misleading term, as I used it. From the Reserved List:

"All policies described in this document apply only to non-premium, tournament-legal Magic cards. Wizards of the Coast has and may continue to print special versions of cards not meant for regular game play, such as oversized cards."

Aside from one article where they say "we aren't putting these cards in FtV: Exiled," I haven't seen anything saying they won't ever print them in FtV.

Edit - for the sake of argument, let's assume you're right - all that really means is that any of the cool, good artifacts I'd like to see reprinted won't be. Looks like I'll be passing on this, just like I did on FtV: Timmy.

[Nihil Credo]

http://imgur.com/z53FW.jpg (https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/1174)
(http://goodgamery.com/index.php/2010/01/04/from-the-vault-conservator/)

[Fuzzy]

LED is on the reserved list, Petal and MTutor were not. If they didn't break the reserved list for FTV: Exiled they won't do it for this set either. Sadly Adam this is also why there wont be any foil menorahs.

So what about Berserk? It's on reserved list, right?

[porcupinetreeman]

So what about Berserk? It's on reserved list, right?

Berserk isn't on the reserved list, its mostly rares I think.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/products/reprintpolicy

[Skeggi]

Yeah, they took it off (along with some other uncs) right before they printed FTV:E. That's why they can say that specific FTV series 'followed the rules'. That's why I say it's a very...erhm...flexible list :wink:

[xXxBretWeedxXx]

Yeah, they took it off (along with some other uncs) right before they printed FTV:E. That's why they can say that specific FTV series 'followed the rules'. That's why I say it's a very...erhm...flexible list :wink:


What? Show me some documented proof that changes were made to the Reserved list. The reserved list hasn't changed once since 2002.

[DrJones]

http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/arcana/356_u1ogtxtfpl.jpg
OMG! Black Lotus!

[Nightmare]

Berserk wasn't on the Reserved list, just like Force of Will isn't. They're both Uncommons. The Reserved list is (mostly) Rares. The U1's on it are the rarest cards in the sets without "rares."

[Solaran_X]

Yeah, they took it off (along with some other uncs) right before they printed FTV:E. That's why they can say that specific FTV series 'followed the rules'. That's why I say it's a very...erhm...flexible list :wink:
Actually, the Reserved List hasn't been edited in several years. Last time they altered it, they made the decision to remove Uncommons from the list - so cards like Berserk and Force of Will became reprintable. They felt the list was cluttered and needed cleaned up. The only Uncommons that remained on the list were some (not all) of the U1s from Arabian Nights, Antiquities, The Dark, Fallen Empires, and Homelands that they reclassified as "rares" (which always pissed me off...I've bought packs of those sets and got 2 U1s in some, and no U1s in others...and rare implies, following the logic of sets even back then, one per pack).

[sunshine]

i would love to see following but i guess they print only around ~ 5/15 of them:

N Disc
Null Rod
Cursed Scroll
Sol Ring
Masticore
Ivory Tower
Winter Orb
Black Vise
The Rack
Mindslaver
Lion's Eye Diamond
Mox Diamond
Phyrexian Dreadnought
Zuran Orb

Lion's / Nought / Mox would make the set just too expensive...

LED, Dreadnought, and the Mox don't have as large a pricetag as Berserk. Reserved list considerations aside, I'd say they could be fair game.

[majikal]

Yeah, they took it off (along with some other uncs) right before they printed FTV:E. That's why they can say that specific FTV series 'followed the rules'. That's why I say it's a very...erhm...flexible list :wink:
If by "right before they printed FTV:E" you mean "Right before they printed Odyssey Block" then you're absolutely right!

[DownSyndromeKarl]

If by "right before they printed FTV:E" you mean "Right before they printed Odyssey Block" then you're absolutely right!

ha! made me laugh out loud. the wifey just gave me a strange look because of it.

[Skeggi]

I heard something of the sort at the time. I cannot produce any documentation so I guess it's false.

[Malchar]

I've never heard of anyone who would be pissed if Wizards started reprinting the reserved list. The only argument supporting the reserved list that I've heard has come from Wizards themselves.

Since the set is called Relics, I don't think that they'll be printing any artifact creatures. That said, I'd love to see Phyrexian Dreadnought make an appearance. It's one of the only legacy staples that I don't already have.

[Ebinsugewa]

LED, Dreadnought, and the Mox don't have as large a pricetag as Berserk. Reserved list considerations aside, I'd say they could be fair game.

They're getting pretty close, if not at, what UNL Berserk is.

[Solaran_X]

They're getting pretty close, if not at, what UNL Berserk is.
UL Berserk: $42.14
Phyrexian Dreadnought: $24.09
Lion's Eye Diamond: $23.11
Mox Diamond: $29.90

Aside from Mox Diamond, they're actually almost $20 less than a UL Berserk (all based on today's average MOTL prices).

[DownSyndromeKarl]

Since the set is called Relics, I don't think that they'll be printing any artifact creatures.

I don't see why not. After all, Su-Chi and Ornithopter were found in the desert, were they not? I'd call them relics.

I'm still on the Karn bandwagon. Especially since I'm 80% certain that Lights is the return to Mirrodin Wizards leaked.

[Valdez]

Karn, Silver Golem
Ivory Tower - neues Bild
AEther Vial - neues Bild
Mox Diamond - neues Bild
Isochron Scepter - neues Bild
Mirari
Nevinyrral's Disk - neues Bild
Jester's Cap
Sundering Titan
Zuran Orb - neues Bild
Masticore - neues Bild
Black Vise - neues Bild
Sol Ring - neues Bild
Memory Jar
Sword of Body and Mind

Sword of Body and Mind wird die einzige neue Karte im Set sein, die uns wahrscheinlich in Scars of Mirrodin wieder begegnen wird. Aller Voraussicht nach wird es ein Equipment - wie die anderen beiden Schwerter - sein. Vermutungen gehen dahin, dass es Schutz vor grün und blau geben wird, und dass es noch zwei weitere 'Sword of'-Equipments im neuen Mirrodin-Block geben wird, wodurch der Enemy-Color-Cycle vollendet wäre.

neues Bild = new art.

Speculations from a german website [germagic.de], referring to: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=253471
Sword of Body and Mind will be the only new card.
Sword of Body and Mind will have SoFaI/SoLaS-like abilities, with prot. from U and G.
The enemy colour cycle will be completed in Scars featuring SoBaM.

[DrJones]

Could someone fix the title of this thread? I'm tired of reading "Relics from the Valut", specially because it brings to my mind the image of a Balut and is not pretty.

[dahcmai]

Hmmm, I'm curious for the new art on Zuran Orb and Ivory Tower as it's been a long time for those to have a reprint. Black Vise will tough to top as it is.

Well, all in all, this one is really worth picking up if you play EDH. Not bad for constructed though you are better off buying singles probably since Mox Diamond and Aether Vial are the only "heavily" played cards on there.

[jrsthethird]

MSRP = $35

Mox Diamond = $40+

Easy choice.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

MSRP = $35

Mox Diamond = $40+

Easy choice.

msrp = $35, will we be able to find anywhere for less than $75? doubt it

[whienot]

The only presale I've found was at $120. :eek:

[phonics]

you should just check out your lgs, i know the two nearest me are going to be selling them at msrp or near msrp

[dahcmai]

If you guys like I can order a bunch more than usual and hold a few for the "Sourcers". I won't promise super awesome prices like the MSRP since I have no clue what my store will be selling them for, but I bet I can get a heck of a lot better price than 100 or some such. I'll let you all know what I will be pricing them at later. Usually our store gets way more than what sell around here.

[jrsthethird]

I wish we had that kind of supply around here. I showed up to my local store 2 hours after they opened the day that FTV: Exlied was released and they sold out already. I was totally bummed.