Duals + Shocklands

[Rune]

Why do a lot of people have a split between dual lands and shocklands (4 or less total) in their decks - 3 Tropical and 1 Breeding Pool for example. Is it because they fear Wasteland + Extirpate or something? Seems like it's not worth it in that case and you will lose a lot of games because of random -2 life, or is there something I'm missing? :really:

[Piceli89]

Because they haven't understood anything about Legacy.

[Rune]

Because they haven't understood anything about Legacy.

Well, that makes sense :}

[Dan Turner]

for some it is also a cost/availability issue I have a friend with 2 shocks in the deck because he don't have $100 to replace them with Seas.

[4eak]

I've seen countless people do this because they can't afford afford anything better. The cost of playing (competitive) Legacy is a real barrier for any newer players who didn't pickup the staples from the beginning of magic. Corners will be cut.




peace,
4eak

[Solaran_X]

Extirpate is another reason, although this usage of Extirpate hasn't migrated to the States yet from Europe. In Europe, this is actually a commonly done trick.

Let's say you're playing a blue deck and splashing green for Tarmogoyf (surprise there, right?). So you drop your fetch, crack it, and get a Tropical Island. Your opponent then Wastelands your Tropical Island and Extirpates it...thus eliminating all your green sources in a 4:1 hit.

Now, obviously Tropical Island is better than Breeding Pool. But using the previous example, you crack the fetch, drop the Tropical Island, it gets Wasted and Extirpated, and only 3 copies are removed with a Breeding Pool still around to supply the green mana for Tarmogoyf.

[PhanTom_lt]

Extirpate is another reason, although this usage of Extirpate hasn't migrated to the States yet from Europe. In Europe, this is actually a commonly done trick.

Let's say you're playing a blue deck and splashing green for Tarmogoyf (surprise there, right?). So you drop your fetch, crack it, and get a Tropical Island. Your opponent then Wastelands your Tropical Island and Extirpates it...thus eliminating all your green sources in a 4:1 hit.

Now, obviously Tropical Island is better than Breeding Pool. But using the previous example, you crack the fetch, drop the Tropical Island, it gets Wasted and Extirpated, and only 3 copies are removed with a Breeding Pool still around to supply the green mana for Tarmogoyf.

Or, you know, you play a basic forest in the deck.

[KillemallCFH]

Or, you know, you play a basic forest in the deck.Or, you know, just win based on the fact that you already have a Tarmogoyf in play and your opponent is playing shitty cards like Extirpate.

[stuckpixel]

Most of the time, it's likely due to budget or availability. I don't think that anyone, if given the choice regardless of cost, would choose a Breeding Pool over a Tropical Island. Sometimes though, you just have to roll with what you have.

[Solaran_X]

Or, you know, just win based on the fact that you already have a Tarmogoyf in play and your opponent is playing shitty cards like Extirpate.
Yeah...cause it's not like Smother, Snuff Out, and Shriekmaw eat Tarmogoyf.

[Forbiddian]

Yeah...cause it's not like Smother, Snuff Out, and Shriekmaw eat Tarmogoyf.

Lol, what? We're talking about Extirpate here, not black in general. The fact that your opponent runs crap like Extirpate means that you'll probably win the long game anyway.


You fetch digging out a Tropical Island, your opponent spends a wasteland and an extirpate. You untap, find your basic forest, and rape him as he just wasted a card to thin your deck of excess lands in a long matchup.

After the new set and U/G fetches, basic forests are an actual possibility. I'd run a basic forest far before I'd run Breeding Pool.

[Rune]

I don't think it's a matter of budget. The lists I have seen them in have definitely not been budget lists apart from the one shockland. Examples: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=20268 & http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=25005 so I'm still trying to figure out if there are other things than just Extirpate + Wasteland people want to dodge by doing it ^^

[Phoenix Ignition]

so I'm still trying to figure out if there are other things than just Extirpate + Wasteland people want to dodge by doing it ^^

I guess you could trick your opponent into thinking you're an idiot if you first turn fetch a shockdual. Then again... you probably would be for running it in your deck.

Yep it's either budget or extirpate fear.

[FoulQ]

What Forbiddian said. It was a way to easily fetch a secondary green mana source if you fear extirpate for some reason. There was no U/G fetch before, but now there is, so now a basic forest has pretty much replaced breeding pool forever.

[JeroenC]

Extirpate is another reason, although this usage of Extirpate hasn't migrated to the States yet from Europe. In Europe, this is actually a commonly done trick.

What? You'll have to specify where in Europe, because I've never seen anyone do or even think about this.
Anyway, usually it's just not having the duals to their disposal (yet) that makes people play Shockduals. To most decks, they'll be the next best thing.

[Forbiddian]

The two decks listed happened in March 09 and October 08.

Those were both definitely before Zendikar and I think before Qasali Pridemage even. Yeah, ARB came out in April 09.



That means two things: 1) You don't have a UG fetchland, so you can't just run a basic forest. 2) Zoo hadn't taken off, so your life total didn't matter as much.


I doubt you'll find very many non-budget decks running Breeding Pool after April 09. And almost none after October 2nd 09.

The only reason to do it is Extirpate fear and most people will agree that's not worth it (although there will be some people in some metas who will disagree, I wouldn't go out and buy a Breeding Pool).



I just did a search that turned up a few decks with Breeding Pool after April 09, but nothing after October 09 and a lot of the April 09 decks were obviously budget. Like one tropical, one savannah, one breeding pool. Give me a break.

[Otter]

It's worth noting that some decks can't play a basic Forest. For instance, Tempo Thresh doesn't have room in their manabase, it just doesn't work. They can't afford to lose a blue source or spend one of their two free deck slots on a freakin' Forest. So if I was playing in a small, local metagame and one or two guys (out of say, a weekly ten or fifteen people) liked to run Extirpate shennanigans, I might go 3/1 on Trop/Pool so I have an out. For any larger event where it's much more likely that you'll lose to paying two life than the chance of running into that random guy who plays Extirpate, I would never do it. So for major events and non-budget decklists, I see no reason why you would play a shockland.