[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

[Undomian]

Not much to do with Legacy, but Mana Crypt (http://magiccards.info/mbp/en/6.html) is getting way out of hand.

[apple713]

Not much to do with Legacy, but Mana Crypt (http://magiccards.info/mbp/en/6.html) is getting way out of hand.

Thats insane. It'll get another promo

[Undomian]

Luckily people on eBay are still sane, but I hate to think what happens when those sellers notice that.

[Megadeus]

Basically ebay will just jump 20 dollars in each average price

[H]

Thats insane. It'll get another promo

I would be more than happy to trade one of mine for a Judge foil plus about $100. Hell, I would have been happy moving one for the Judge promo on an even trade.

[Kap'n Cook]

Plateau 60!!! What the hell is going on here?!

I'll take credit for putting 2 plateaus in the top 8. kidding of course, just general dual creep

[DragoFireheart]

What site do you guys like to use for watching prices?

www.mtgstock.com?

www.mtggoldfish.com?

[Higgs]

What. The. Fuck. Underground Sea at $250? Mana crypt at $275?!? I just bought one at $70 2 weeks ago. What just happened?

[nedleeds]

Buying $275 not reserved list Mana Crypts seems pretty risky. If it gets a ban in EDH, or a mass market EDH reprint you will be stuck with your ballsack in your hand.

[Barook]

And people actually defend SCG for that crap. A 70$ increase? C'mon.

[mini1337s]

What. The. Fuck. Underground Sea at $250? Mana crypt at $275?!? I just bought one at $70 2 weeks ago. What just happened?
Where the hell are you seeing Mana Crypt at $275?! I see $150, but not as high as $275.

I have a decent enough income that allows me to spend a silly amount of money on this game, but some of these price increases are a bit unnerving. I suppose Legacy will simply become a format where most players (especially new ones) will only ever be able to build a single deck, rather than a gauntlet. I'm certainly not in "sky-is-falling" territory, but these are some pretty high prices for 4 of staples. I'd hate to see this format go the way of non-proxied Vintage.

[Koby]

And people actually defend SCG for that crap. A 70$ increase? C'mon.

"We've seen a recent trend for higher demands of counterfeiting. We're answering that by further increasing our prices on Eternal staples."

Well, I foresee much more business Chinamen will be getting soon.

[Barook]

I'd hate to see this format go the way of non-proxied Vintage.
I doubt that's going to happen. China fakes are getting better and better and at some point, they're probably going to be undistinguishable from the real thing.

[mini1337s]

I doubt that's going to happen. China fakes are getting better and better and at some point, they're probably going to be undistinguishable from the real thing.
I'm not convinced that will be the case. Even in the event of readily available fakes, I can not see serious players or collectors even bothering with them. You have no resell value with any of your cards, unless you try to sell them as the real deal on eBay, etc. I believe if anything, fakes with increase sales for reputable online dealers.
I understand why SCG raises prices, and I don't have a problem with that. They have a limited supply of cards, incredible demand for NM copies of those cards, and a ton of real expenses to cover (payroll and events in particular). It's unfortunate that push has come to shove, and prices are well beyond what most people would consider reasonable. I didn't live through it in Vintage, but have an understanding of the cost of Power driving many players from the format.
I suppose my real concern is when SCG Buylisting more appealing than playing the game. I love Magic, especially Legacy, but the ability to transfer my cards into a $35000 check is pretty appealing. For a guy in his early 20s, that's a decent chunk of change, enough to put a real down payment on a home. It would break my heart though, as I'm an active, influential member of the local MTG community and love every second of the game. Ugh... just my thoughts, have to type it out.

[miguelmatix]

"We've seen a recent trend for higher demands of counterfeiting. We're answering that by further increasing our prices on Eternal staples."

Well, I foresee much more business Chinamen will be getting soon.


So true... Sad but true...

[Barook]

I'm not convinced that will be the case. Even in the event of readily available fakes, I can not see serious players or collectors even bothering with them. You have no resell value with any of your cards, unless you try to sell them as the real deal on eBay, etc. I believe if anything, fakes with increase sales for reputable online dealers.
Collector items like beta Underground Seas and so on would keep their price, but all the other staples?

Their price bubble would crash and burn since their price is merely based on artificial scarcity. Nobody would pay 1000+$ for a playset of Revised Underground Seas when there's an undetectable fake playsets for 25$ on Ebay. We haven't reached that point yet, but I believe it's bound to happen sooner or later that the fakes hammer out the last issues, especially with so much money on the line.

[Mr.C]

It's amusing to think that when Vintage started, uh, 'dying' (around 2004, 2005, I think), you could buy a fully powered, Tier 1, Vintage deck for about $3800. Mind you, this deck was *very*, expensive, running Seal, 4 Shops and a Bazaar on top of the P9.

(Roland Chang's 2005 Vintage Championship list, with historical prices pulled from Apathy House, assuming EX condition or better):

1 Barbarian Ring 1.00
1 Bazaar of Baghdad 150.00
4 City of Brass 2.00
3 Gemstone Mine 12.00/all
4 Mishra's Workshop 800.00/set
1 Strip Mine 1.50
1 Tolarian Academy 15.00
4 Wasteland 35.00/all
19 lands

4 Goblin Welder 32.00
1 Gorilla Shaman 0.50
1 Karn, Silver Golem 2.00
1 Sundering Titan 2.00
1 Triskelion 1.00
8 creatures

1 Ancestral Recall 400.00
1 Balance 1.50
1 Black Lotus 700.00
1 Crop Rotation 0.50
3 Crucible of Worlds 10.00
1 Demonic Tutor 6.00
1 Imperial Seal 175.00
1 Mana Crypt 30.00
1 Mana Vault 1.50
1 Memory Jar 1.50
1 Mox Emerald: 280
1 Mox Jet: 320
1 Mox Pearl: 280
1 Mox Ruby: 320
1 Mox Sapphire: 300
4 Smokestack 16.00/all
1 Sol Ring 3.00
3 Sphere of Resistance 7.00/all
4 Tangle Wire 12.00/all
1 Tinker 1.50
1 Tormod's Crypt 1.00
1 Trinisphere 1.00
1 Vampiric Tutor - 8.00

When you look at Feline's thread:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24023-40-Tier-Legacy-Decks-Lists-Singles-Prices-etc-To-be-updated-regularly(started-2012)

You see that the most expensive deck is approaching $3300 already! The next 19 decks all cost $2000+. With Magic competing with all sorts of more affordable entertainment, I'm not sure how these prices are sustainable for much longer, to be honest.

[humppa]

Guys, wake up and stop bitching (ok, I know, Bitching is in the topic name...)

We are really lucky guys, all of us. Why? Because we have a hobby that costs us a lot of money, but when we would choose to quit it, we will received that money back (probably a lot more).

All my friends have hobbies too. RC models, horses, cars, ... and what all those hobbies have in common? You never ever see your money again.

So - stop bitching. We all have a lot of fun and we are not losing money (yet).

If the sky will fall, there should be only one really bad end - we will lose our money. But - this is how all other hobbies work all the time.

Look at you in the mirror and say: "I am lucky bastard, because my hobby is not only fun, it is also NOT a money trash!"

---
sorrry, my english is a little bit rusty, but I hope you get the point.

[Phelix]

Guys, wake up and stop bitching (ok, I know, Bitching is in the topic name...)

We are really lucky guys, all of us. Why? Because we have a hobby that costs us a lot of money, but when we would choose to quit it, we will received that money back (probably a lot more).

All my friends have hobbies too. RC models, horses, cars, ... and what all those hobbies have in common? You never ever see your money again.

So - stop bitching. We all have a lot of fun and we are not losing money (yet).

If the sky will fall, there should be only one really bad end - we will lose our money. But - this is how all other hobbies work all the time.

Look at you in the mirror and say: "I am lucky bastard, because my hobby is not only fun, it is also NOT a money trash!"

---
sorrry, my english is a little bit rusty, but I hope you get the point.

My horse i amazing.

In other news, yes of course, many hobbies are more expensive (strippers, powerboating comes to mind as the two most obvious)

that aside, there is a point comparing to old vintage.

[Higgs]

Where the hell are you seeing Mana Crypt at $275?! I see $150, but not as high as $275.

It was from the initial link Undomain provided. I then checked TCGplayer and it was something around $230. Ebay people had it around $130 yesterday but most stores were out of stock, probably updating their prices so I was shocked. Can't check much at the moment.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

There's a problem with other hobbies.
RC models are made of w/e they are made of. They also use engines.
Horses are living animals.
Cars are similr to RC models, only bigger.

On the other hand, wer'e playing with pieces of paper. If not for the artificial scarcity*, they'd be far more cheaper, it's not like we're in 30th century BC China and paper was just discovered.

Also, the facts that I may sell my cards someties in future, and that they are expensive, do not help when building the deck. It's not like I may pull 2000 CZK out of my wallet, throw them in KMC matte and be fine with it.
Moreover, when you don't have those 2000 CZK to fill the void in your last 60/75, it doesn't help you that you got the rest of he deck, and you simply can't take 50 CZK and glue the hole. The last time I checked, Tarmogoyfs were making results, not Erhnam Djinns.

Maybe I'm more cryptic than necessary, but you get my point, don't you? :cool:

*) Call it however else you wish to, but as long as WotC doesn't reprint it's own product even though there's a high demand for it, I call this artificial scarcity. Moreover, the whole game would be far more cheaper if ppl would open the boosters, but when there is nothing to find in them (except for Limited), what's the point of buying?

[Kage]

I think magic's main competition are video and other board games, not car collectors and horse owners. If you want something to play with 3-4 times a week I think you get a better mileage if you're burning 100 bucks for a copy of CounterStrike and Starcraft 2 than on a 1500$ Legacy deck. Or play Hearthstone, Netrunner, whatever, you name it.

[Megadeus]

Meh im fine with paying a lot knowing I can get that same value generally out if I ever need to. It is annoying because I am on a tight budget, but I get through. Playing magic is fun to me. Hanging out with the buddies I have made is fun. Going on trips with those buddies is fun. For me it is also the social aspect of the game so I am fine with it.

[bkemke]

... and Dark Depths is crazy expensive http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Dark+Depths+%5BCSP%5D

Speculation that it gets unbanned in modern?

[JPoJohnson]

... and Dark Depths is crazy expensive http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Dark+Depths+%5BCSP%5D

Speculation that it gets unbanned in modern?

No chance.

[sdematt]

More decks are using it in Legacy to trounce TNN.

-Matt

[clavio]

There has to be a point where prices can't get any higher. There's a price where players will say no, fuck that, I can't/won't buy your $500 Underground Sea.

[sdematt]

At some point, I'd rather sell my stupid revised sea for infinite value and play something else. Man, if revised Seas climbed that high, I'd ship a playset for Ermenegildo Zegna suit. In a heartbeat.

-Matt

[danyul]

I'd sell my entire collection, buy the most tricked out laptop possible + maybe a new car, and try out this "real life adult" thing that I've been avoiding for years.

[TsumiBand]

There has to be a point where prices can't get any higher. There's a price where players will say no, fuck that, I can't/won't buy your $500 Underground Sea.

Apparently that point just doesn't exist for enough people, because everyone who claims to be 'in the know' about this junk (retailers/traders/speculators/players/collectors/whoever) have the same retort on tap:

"Demand is always out there, people will always pay for this shit, there are only so many and if you really want to win you will play these cards. Come at me bro; BTW free S/H for orders over [price_of_scrubland + price_of_random_crap_rare_from_gatecrash], supplies are limited."

FWIW, my threshold was surpassed a long time ago, but I'm just one guy not buying old cards in a Legacy scene that dried up like a Martian riverbed, so why should any retailer give a fuck what I think? The minute I can no longer be sold this product, I was "never the target market anyway". There's always another up-and-comer that doesn't know any better or has no memory of $10 ABRU duals from the turn of the century, so may as well put another 5% on the price of those Force of Wills and open up shop bright-n-early for the next wave of players who will turn their heads around 2, 3, 5 years from now and go "hey remember when Taigas were only like $60 bucks? The hell happened?"

[Arsenal]

Just bought a bunch of non-foil blue rares for my up-and-coming Cube. Jesus Christ those cards were expensive for being relatively obscure, junk-ish rares. I understand Cube and Commander are a thing, but you typically only need 1-of the card, and I can't imagine the demand to be that high for those kinds of cards.

[TsumiBand]

Just bought a bunch of non-foil blue rares for my up-and-coming Cube. Jesus Christ those cards were expensive for being relatively obscure, junk-ish rares. I understand Cube and Commander are a thing, but you typically only need 1-of the card, and I can't imagine the demand to be that high for those kinds of cards.

Crap rares? What are those? Every format is A Real Thing now. Rainbow Stairwell is driving up the price of Chaos Imps, didn't you know? Oh, and Underground Sea of course - you gotta be able to cast both Spelltwine and Corrupt, or else you ain't shit son.

[Scott]

Guys, wake up and stop bitching (ok, I know, Bitching is in the topic name...)

We are really lucky guys, all of us. Why? Because we have a hobby that costs us a lot of money, but when we would choose to quit it, we will received that money back (probably a lot more).

All my friends have hobbies too. RC models, horses, cars, ... and what all those hobbies have in common? You never ever see your money again.

So - stop bitching. We all have a lot of fun and we are not losing money (yet).

If the sky will fall, there should be only one really bad end - we will lose our money. But - this is how all other hobbies work all the time.

Look at you in the mirror and say: "I am lucky bastard, because my hobby is not only fun, it is also NOT a money trash!"

---
sorrry, my english is a little bit rusty, but I hope you get the point.

Most bitching comes out of concern for the game/format/community, not out of concern for individual finances.

[Arsenal]

When a card like Consecrated Sphinx is almost as expensive as Sphinx's Revelation, there's a problem with the casual formats; casual isn't so "casual" anymore. I get that Mirrodin Besieged was a small set and Return to Ravnica is a large one, but Sphinx's Revelation is played as a 4-of in all of the UWx Control decks in Standard and it sees play as a 2-of in Modern's UWR Control; the demand for this card should be off the charts compared to the demand of Consecrated Sphinx which sees play as a 1-of in some Commander decks and some Cubes.

[danyul]

I think you are seriously underestimating the size of the casual demographic. The Cube and Commander fanboys out there are legion. But they mostly stay in their hobbit holes so you don't hear much from them, especially on these forums.

[Arsenal]

I think you are seriously underestimating the size of the casual demographic. The Cube and Commander fanboys out there are legion. But they mostly stay in their hobbit holes so you don't hear much from them, especially on these forums.

This could be true in that I'm underestimating the casual players, but do you think they outnumber the legion of Standard FNM and Modern FNM players? Consecrated Sphinx is played as a 1-of in the casual formats. Sphinx's Revelation is played as a 4-of in the UWx Control decks that are littering Standard as well as a 2-of in Modern's UWR Control. The casual group's demand outnumbers the Standard/Modern playerbase that much?

[joemauer]

$250 Underground Seas? I guess Dredge is a budget deck again since you can build the entire deck(Lion's Eye Diamonds included) for less than the price of Two Underground Seas.

[PirateKing]

I think you are seriously underestimating the size of the casual demographic. The Cube and Commander fanboys out there are legion. But they mostly stay in their hobbit holes so you don't hear much from them, especially on these forums.

How expensive do cards have to get before they stop being "casual" in nature. I agree that rogue formats are growing in popularity faster than any of the established formats, but that can't last forever. At some point a person spending $1,000 on their casual jank deck isn't really just messing around. Is it expected that we'll all have our $10,000 legacy decks, looking down on the four figure plebs?

[danyul]

This could be true in that I'm underestimating the casual players, but do you think they outnumber the legion of Standard FNM and Modern FNM players? Consecrated Sphinx is played as a 1-of in the casual formats. Sphinx's Revelation is played as a 4-of in the UWx Control decks that are littering Standard as well as a 2-of in Modern's UWR Control. The casual group's demand outnumbers the Standard/Modern playerbase that much?

It's hard to say. I don't have any stats. But I do know that WOTC makes an incredible amount of money selling boxes to casual kitchen table noobs who don't even like the FNM scene. And in regards to Consecrated Sphinx, it's a mythic from a small set (right?) and is a legitimate Cube/Commander staple. Sphinx's Rev, on the other hand, was a mythic from one of the best selling sets of all time, which has been printed several times over. And although it may be a 4-of in those top Standard decks, that doesn't mean everybody is playing UW blahblah.dec. The format, while not super diverse, is varied enough where I think people can play without having to get Sphinx Rev. I think MonoBlack Devotion is actually the hot shit right now. And in Modern there are a million decks to play, the most popular of which is Jund, right?

There are a lot of casuals out there. I'm at my local shop way too often and I know all the regulars. I know the Legacy crowd and the Modern crowd and the FNM crowd. But when a new set gets released, strange new faces come streaming in the shop doors nonstop. Kitchen table casuals that nobody recognizes come in by the boatload and pick up multiple booster boxes and then walk out into the night, only reemerging when the next set comes out. I'm not sure about the exact numbers, but the size of the casual MTG audience would blow your mind.


How expensive do cards have to get before they stop being "casual" in nature. I agree that rogue formats are growing in popularity faster than any of the established formats, but that can't last forever. At some point a person spending $1,000 on their casual jank deck isn't really just messing around. Is it expected that we'll all have our $10,000 legacy decks, looking down on the four figure plebs?

Legacy as a format is almost as casual as Cube/EDH. What do we get from all this shit? Some expensive cards and a shot at an SCG trophy? EDH kids get all that minus the dreams of a plastic cup. Nobody expects the inflated scenario you are describing. But those EDH folks don't think of their decks as things for "messing around". There are Commander tryhards out there who take that shit seriously. Just because you label them as casuals doesn't mean they think of themselves that way. I think they are stinky casuals too, to be fair. I'm just saying, they are operating under a set of beliefs that leads them to spend X dollars in Y ways and that makes stupid EDH stuff expensive.

[Mr Miagi]

What happened to Mana crypt? It just doubled in price. And some1 bought almost all from MKM: https://www.magiccardmarket.eu/Mana_Crypt_1_Harper_Prism_Promos.c1p15177.prod

[mini1337s]

I think you are seriously underestimating the size of the casual demographic. The Cube and Commander fanboys out there are legion. But they mostly stay in their hobbit holes so you don't hear much from them, especially on these forums.
I've of the opinion that Commander and Cube have more of an influence on price increases, moreso than Legacy. Modern is also a huge influence, with loads of speculators with money ready in their grubby hands.
Of course Legacy has an influence, but I firmly believe that the trio of EDH, Cube, and Modern are what have caused the ridiculous out-of-control price increases that we've seen.

[TsumiBand]

I've of the opinion that Commander and Cube have more of an influence on price increases, moreso than Legacy. Modern is also a huge influence, with loads of speculators with money ready in their grubby hands.
Of course Legacy has an influence, but I firmly believe that the trio of EDH, Cube, and Modern are what have caused the ridiculous out-of-control price increases that we've seen.

Yeah. This. I've been saying this since the Commander products introduced countless plebes to Eternal.

The cards pulled between 2-4 non-rotating formats can jump up damn near overnight with little explanation, except someone somewhere won something with it in their 75/99.

sent from phone, don't be a dick

[Koby]

I've of the opinion that Commander and Cube have more of an influence on price increases, moreso than Legacy. Modern is also a huge influence, with loads of speculators with money ready in their grubby hands.
Of course Legacy has an influence, but I firmly believe that the trio of EDH, Cube, and Modern are what have caused the ridiculous out-of-control price increases that we've seen.

I second and confirm Commander has higher price pressure than Legacy. Nearly every dedicated Commander player wants a set of duals, fetches, and other one-of pieces. Mana Crypt is evidence of its popularity. Additionally, the ceiling for "pimping" is often higher for Commander as people like to be self-expressive. Added to that, many alters occur too, further reducing circulation of playables.

Fucking Commander.

[PirateKing]

I'm not labeling their choice of format in a disparaging way, in my youth a built and bought stupid 60-card kitchen table decks to play with my friends, and I know how much fun that can be. But at some point of monetary input, there has to be shift where it's not some passing interest. I know EDH kids take their format seriously, even if it's seriously about not being serious. It just seems difficult to label decks or formats as casual once they start summing certain prices.

[gregtron]

Fucking Commander.

Casual scum.

[Koby]

Casual scum.

Sadly, they represent a larger market, and larger marketshare than Legacy can ever hope to become.

[TsumiBand]

Isn't it enough to say that no one wants their deck to suck?
Even non-competitive decks can still sport synergy and interactions. They aren't on a par with GP: Burkina Faso, but they aren't shitty. A deck can be 'bad' without sucking, though that invites a lot of subjectivity.
I mean that is a problem too - you cannot simply decree that no casual decks will play duals and Forces. Any group of players can say 'we want 'our decks' to have (subjectively or objectively) 'good cards'.' There's nothing on Bayou that says 'tournament-grade, professional-quality only'.

sent from phone, don't be a dick

[Bed Decks Palyer]

There's no line dividing casual and competitive decks. When I was young (read: 24), we all played casual decks, because our group was casual and because we've never went to tournaments with their weird stinky people in weird stinky stores. Still, our decks were quite expensive and some of use even had duals, Forces, WoGs, etc., with the most expensive card within our group being Library of Alexandria. I remember when some CZK 2000 Clampfinnity completely wrecked my CZK 15 000 Casual deck. So, which one was casual? The cheap one? The bad one?

Also, it was very funny to play at the kitchen table. (Or pub table...) No weirdos and nerds, no easily distinguished archetypes (ok, until you've learnt what your buddies play), completely senseless metagame, etc. I was sad when our group collapsed (mostly because of burnout, modern frame and heroin) and I don't think that ever since then I had as much fun with MtG as back in late 1990's and early 2000's.
Otoh, the amount of bitching and whining ("If only you'd play Jokulhaups, it's a fair card, but Armageddon is so unjust!") heard in a usual casual group is what prevents me from joining any EDH/casual party. Yeah, I tend to bitch and whine a lot, but really, even I have some boundaries.

[cheerios]

Casual scum.

+1

[Kage]

Lol @ hatred towards casual / EDH players

No wonder people play commander where you can build a deck for a few hundred bucks opposed to Legacy where a godd deck is 1500-2000$. And it's not like your EDH deck will be way worse if you only have 3 fetches and 2 duals and no FoW. Also, competitive 1v1 EDH exists, and is sporting 30-40 player tournaments weekly in France and monthly in the Phillippines and some parts of the US, which is quite something if you consider that the format is not supported by Wizards and is being governed by a group of 5 French dudes. People play so-called casual formats like Cube and EDH because they are burnt out / can't afford Legacy/Standard/Modern deck or have no time / desire to invest in and play 'serious' formats.

But please cry more about them filthy casuals driving up the price of Mana Crypt, Consecrated Sphinx and duals while you post your fully foiled out Japanese RUG deck on the pimp thread.

[Lemnear]

Lol @ hatred towards casual / EDH players

No wonder people play commander where you can build a deck for a few hundred bucks opposed to Legacy where a godd deck is 1500-2000$. And it's not like your EDH deck will be way worse if you only have 3 fetches and 2 duals and no FoW. Also, competitive 1v1 EDH exists, and is sporting 30-40 player tournaments weekly in France and monthly in the Phillippines and some parts of the US, which is quite something if you consider that the format is not supported by Wizards and is being governed by a group of 5 French dudes. People play so-called casual formats like Cube and EDH because they are burnt out / can't afford Legacy/Standard/Modern deck or have no time / desire to invest in and play 'serious' formats.

But please cry more about them filthy casuals driving up the price of Mana Crypt, Consecrated Sphinx and duals while you post your fully foiled out Japanese RUG deck on the pimp thread.

Erm .., you are aware that Mana Crypt is a singleton in Vintage and EDH and Sphinx is a an EDH only card? The demand for those cards is way, way below the one of Duals and stuff and still it skyrockets for no reason . Somethings fishy here, dood

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Erm .., you are aware that Mana Crypt is a singleton in Vintage and EDH and Sphinx is a an EDH only card? The demand for those cards is way, way below the one of Duals and stuff and still it skyrockets for no reason . Somethings fishy here, dood

Definitely something fishy about Mana Crypt. Other than that, Kage is right.

It saddens me that with the power creep and increased popularity of game (and the tournament formats for that matter), one can't build a true casual deck anymore. There are so many powerful cards that simply wreck any USD 50 deck, that it's not easily possible to "compete" even in non-competitive environment. Yes, there's always all-common, and I believe that it's the format where cheap decks (in the real sense of word) might exist, but last time I checked the Pauper metagame, I didn't like it much. Now, Peasant/Noble might be a bit different, but I delved into the formats even less.

Basic lands aside, there are still some 70 cards left in your EDH (or 40 in your "normal" deck) and even if they cost approx. one buck, you still got a small pack of cardboard for 50 USD. But would it even be remotely viable? Except for Pauper, I don't think it's possible to build really cheap decks anymore. Look, even crappy commons and junk stuff costs at least 10 cents. And will you build 100CrawWurms.dec?

/first world troubles

[Lemnear]

Reminds me of an ol' topic: I'm all for better preconstructed decks. 30$ - decent modern deck with solid playables overall and not just 1-2 cards + junk


Edit: Oh, Wastelands upped again! Nice, my Judge ones now start @ 1000€ the set ... Gonna stick 'em back to MCM for 2k then lol

[Kayradis]

Just give them to me.

[TheAardvark]

I doubt that's going to happen. China fakes are getting better and better and at some point, they're probably going to be undistinguishable from the real thing.

FWIW, according to people who have allegedly seen the current fakes in person, they aren't as good as previously reported, and aren't too difficult to distinguish from authentic cards, so that is very possibly still a long time from now.

[majikal]

Nothing fishy going on with Mana Crypt at all if you understand how a lot of EDH players operate. The diehard players build an insane amount of decks - some 20+ and many consider Mana Crypt to be an auto-include. So you've got a bunch of people buying all the Mana Crypts to put in their decks and the price goes through the roof. It's not like there's that many of them in the first place.

Personally, I've got 4 and would like more.

[Phelix]

lets all play french rules and ignore that :P

[anonymos]

Any guesses on how much further Dark Depths is going to go? Star city is "sold out" at 50 and the cheapest on TCG player is 50.

[prateta]

Any guesses on how much further Dark Depths is going to go? Star city is "sold out" at 50 and the cheapest on TCG player is 50.

Just a hype because some maverick decks pack it as an alternative wincon now with Thespian Stage and also Lands won the last SCG. I think it will fall back to 30-40 eventually.

[apple713]

Big question guys!

I'm looking to buy Foil rishadan ports. Are they really worth 5-6 times regular ones? Reg is @ $70 and Foil's @ $400ish? They worth more? Less? They dropping soon? Artificially inflated?

[Lemnear]

Big question guys!

I'm looking to buy Foil rishadan ports. Are they really worth 5-6 times regular ones? Reg is @ $70 and Foil's @ $400ish? They worth more? Less? They dropping soon? Artificially inflated?

5-6 times the worth in FOIL Sounds ok. 70$ for a regular one is not. It's that high because of D&T's Ascension to DtB ... Don't buy those.

[apple713]

5-6 times the worth in FOIL Sounds ok. 70$ for a regular one is not. It's that high because of D&T's Ascension to DtB ... Don't buy those.

5-6 times worth for foil seems super high. We are talking English foils here.

lets say JTMS is 100 reg, a foil would be 600+. Thats easily the most valuable foil in existence (other than test prints). Rishadan port really comparable to JTMS in that respecT?

[Lemnear]

5-6 times worth for foil seems super high. We are talking English foils here.

lets say JTMS is 100 reg, a foil would be 600+. Thats easily the most valuable foil in existence (other than test prints). Rishadan port really comparable to JTMS in that respecT?

Dunno, SCG payed me +2000 € (!) for my englisch Worldwake Jaces back then the regular ones were ~80€ and I expect there are a lot less Ports available than Jaces during their time. Regardless of that, the price of Ports is artificial High to Profit from D&T's current popularity ... See also Karakas

[Lt. Quattro]

Dunno, SCG payed me +2000 € (!) for my englisch Worldwake Jaces back then the regular ones were ~80€ and I expect there are a lot less Ports available than Jaces during their time. Regardless of that, the price of Ports is artificial High to Profit from D&T's current popularity ... See also Karakas

I'm not so sure thats true about karakas playa, yeah its a 3-4 of in death and taxes but its also as a 1 of if any deck playing white, a 1 of in lands, used as a sideboard card against legends, commander players want it and i'm sure collectors collect it. throw in that it hasn't gotten a large reprint plus an ever growing player base and you got a recipe for an expensive card.

[Philipp2293]

I'm not so sure thats true about karakas playa, yeah its a 3-4 of in death and taxes but its also as a 1 of if any deck playing white, a 1 of in lands, used as a sideboard card against legends, commander players want it and i'm sure collectors collect it. throw in that it hasn't gotten a large reprint plus an ever growing player base and you got a recipe for an expensive card.

Pretty sure commander players don't want Karakas ;)

[jamesh]

I've noticed recently English language foils of in demand cards like port and SFM have gone for very high prices.

[TsumiBand]

Nothing fishy going on with Mana Crypt at all if you understand how a lot of EDH players operate. The diehard players build an insane amount of decks - some 20+ and many consider Mana Crypt to be an auto-include. So you've got a bunch of people buying all the Mana Crypts to put in their decks and the price goes through the roof. It's not like there's that many of them in the first place.

Personally, I've got 4 and would like more.

Right, exactly. Some people consider EDH tantamount to Vintage minus P9 and Sway of the Stars, and so their decks are pretty much just 99 card Vintage decks with commanders like Atogatog, because 5-color. BrokenStuff.dec always works.

[apple713]

I'm not so sure thats true about karakas playa, yeah its a 3-4 of in death and taxes but its also as a 1 of if any deck playing white, a 1 of in lands, used as a sideboard card against legends, commander players want it and i'm sure collectors collect it. throw in that it hasn't gotten a large reprint plus an ever growing player base and you got a recipe for an expensive card.


Karakas nor rishadan port are on the reserve list. Either way are you trying to indicate that since port is a 4 of on many decks that its price is more warranted than karakas?


I've noticed recently English language foils of in demand cards like port and SFM have gone for very high prices.

i agree, but does that make it a bad time to buy? or are they only going to increase further?

[Phelix]

two weeks ago i sold 3 foil ports @ 1300.

so they are def worth that.

[jamesh]

i agree, but does that make it a bad time to buy? or are they only going to increase further?

it depends is the answer again
if it is an English language foil that is very rare and the card is proven over many years, e.g. port i think the price will hold
but if it is more marginal the prices are more likely to change - especially with reprinting
that's the danger of english language foil, if it is reprinted it could be identical
i have a foil glimmervoid from mirrodin and my local store won't trade it cause he knows his customers know they can get the MM version cheaper so they won't go for it
stuff like that the values are unlikely to hold

[Lt. Quattro]

Karakas nor rishadan port are on the reserve list. Either way are you trying to indicate that since port is a 4 of on many decks that its price is more warranted than karakas?



i agree, but does that make it a bad time to buy? or are they only going to increase further?

I meant that everyone wants karakas because it could be used as a sideboard card so its high price is understandable. karakas and port not being on the reserved list means jack, when has wizards ever mass reprinted a high dollar card?

[apple713]

I meant that everyone wants karakas because it could be used as a sideboard card so its high price is understandable. karakas and port not being on the reserved list means jack, when has wizards ever mass reprinted a high dollar card?

JTMS / Tarmogoyf

[Lord Seth]

JTMS / Tarmogoyf
Those hardly count as "mass" reprints.

A better example would have been Thoughtseize.

[apple713]

Those hardly count as "mass" reprints.

A better example would have been Thoughtseize.

i wouldn't really call thought seize a high dollar card...it peaked at 50 right?

[Megadeus]

i wouldn't really call thought seize a high dollar card...it peaked at 50 right?

Actually I think it peaked at 80 for a short time

[Technicolor Mage]

Actually I think it peaked at 80 for a short time

It did peak at 80 on SCG for a short period of time, but was at 70 for quite some time before the reprint was announced which dropped it to 40 over night.

Although TCG had them at 50 during that time for much longer....

[Lt. Quattro]

JTMS / Tarmogoyf


i wouldn't really call thought seize a high dollar card...it peaked at 50 right?

When I said mass reprinted I meant in a standard set. An example would the the wasteland reprints, a judge foil and a magic player reward card wouldn't count as mass reprinted. A from the vault reprint isn't massive and a mythic rare from a set that was a limited print with a huge msrp isn't a mass reprint.

[Shawon]

So... how long should one wait to buy Deathrites?

[HammafistRoob]

I wouldn't wait. It's ban in Modern won't really affect it's price in the long run since it was only played in a few decks there. They're only around 10 right now, I'm guessing they drop to 7ish for a while and then start to go up again. He'll be boss in Legacy for a very long time.

[jamesh]

I wouldn't wait. It's ban in Modern won't really affect it's price in the long run since it was only played in a few decks there.

It was a big card in modern so the price will be affected. The next 6 months will be a good time to buy DRS - look for (relative) bargins on pimp versions.

[Megadeus]

So bitterblossom at 70... lol. Anybody need foil Russian illness in the ranks? ;)

[Shawon]

It was a big card in modern so the price will be affected. The next 6 months will be a good time to buy DRS - look for (relative) bargins on pimp versions.

It's also still in Standard. Will its price dip after set rotation, you think?

[Megadeus]

I don't think it even sees standard play... doubt rotation will do much

[jamesh]

Rotation is unimportant. The question now is how many RtR packs are being opened. This will inevitably tail off (even more) towards rotation.

[JPoJohnson]

Mistbind Clique climbs almost $30-40 in two hours of the Bitterblossom unban in Modern announcement.

Didn't even think of that card being affected that intensely. I wonder how long until the hype allows it to drop a little bit.

[nedleeds]

Bitterblossom in modern just makes goyf more insane ... throw tribal and enchantment in the bin with your thoughtseize that you cast after you fetched ... I guess Nacatyl was a result of looking at Goyf and realizing how pathetic tittie cat was in comparison.

[Dan Turner]

I have been hoarding foil Nacatls because I like them.

Now I am thinking of flipping them should I wait a bit for right now at $10 each. I paid maybe $3 for the most expensive and most were $1 bin buys.

Oh and to put it in perspective i have 63 foil atm and no I am not interested in buy listing them either to a shop. I have enough resources to sell myself to actual players

[clavio]

So... how long should one wait to buy Deathrites?

He might never get reprinted. He certainly won't show up in Modern Master's 2. I see him only going up in the long run.

[allek]

He might never get reprinted. He certainly won't show up in Modern Master's 2. I see him only going up in the long run.

Agreed. I had two extra playsets I hoped would go up rapidly during the next modern season or whatever that shit's called but now a slow and steady growth is to be expected.
Being banned in modern and unplayable in standard means that can only be reprinted in a EDH/planechase product and I don't see them doing that in a few years at least.

Too bad about the ban in modern though, if the two formats had a more similar card pool, people could make the transition to Legacy easier, now DRS becomes another must-have that adds to the entry barrier if you want to move to a true eternal format.

[apple713]

I have been hoarding foil Nacatls because I like them.

Now I am thinking of flipping them should I wait a bit for right now at $10 each. I paid maybe $3 for the most expensive and most were $1 bin buys.

Oh and to put it in perspective i have 63 foil atm and no I am not interested in buy listing them either to a shop. I have enough resources to sell myself to actual players

You run the risk of zoo still sucking and them losing value

[phonics]

I remember thinking it was ridiculous when Grim Monolith was unbanned in legacy and it jumped from a couple bucks to 30$, and then Bitterblossom comes along...

[Dan Turner]

If they drop back to $2 each I am still ahead of the game since I collect cats.




You run the risk of zoo still sucking and them losing value



Sent from 15 min in the future via Tapatalk Timewarp.

[[SLAYER]chaos]

So Noble Hierarch is up to 50 on tcgplayer...

[Megadeus]

Hierarch at 50, Seculded Glen is at 15, Grove of the Burnwillows is randomly at 45....

[[SLAYER]chaos]

Is anyone even playing secluded glen in their lists?!

I saw Mistbind Clique's at 25 yesterday too, I think people might be overreacting just a little bit

[apple713]

chaos;789104']Is anyone even playing secluded glen in their lists?!

I saw Mistbind Clique's at 25 yesterday too, I think people might be overreacting just a little bit

I was all for fae when i first heard blossom unbanned. Then i thought about it.... faeries were amazing because their competition wasn't much. I think you had kith kin and makeshift mannequin decks.


in modern it's very diff. You have access to pyroclasm, infest, grim lavamancer, and several combo decks...

Pridemage is also main decking since the return of zoo. Fae will get crushed by zoo. between nactal, guide, and kird ape fae's 1/1 blossom tokens aren't enough. even with a scion a few 2/2s aren't gonna cut the mustard


bitterblossom is a modern only card. It's not good enough for legacy and i feel like peoples are def overreacting.

[Megadeus]

I was all for fae when i first heard blossom unbanned. Then i thought about it.... faeries were amazing because their competition wasn't much. I think you had kith kin and makeshift mannequin decks.


in modern it's very diff. You have access to pyroclasm, infest, grim lavamancer, and several combo decks...

Pridemage is also main decking since the return of zoo. Fae will get crushed by zoo. between nactal, guide, and kird ape fae's 1/1 blossom tokens aren't enough. even with a scion a few 2/2s aren't gonna cut the mustard


bitterblossom is a modern only card. It's not good enough for legacy and i feel like peoples are def overreacting.

Yeah I've been brewing a Deaths Shadow Zoo list with 3 MD Pridemage. The card just seems so good in the format.

[Phelix]

there was also elves in the meta, and they were good. along w. 5 color control.

[kingsey]

When did noble hierach become so high in price ?

[Megadeus]

When did noble hierach become so high in price ?

When the mana dork of choice in modern got banned

[apple713]

When the mana dork of choice in modern got banned

yeah but noble is bant... does anyone play bant anymore?

[ESG]

yeah but noble is bant... does anyone play bant anymore?

Pod decks, not really Bant decks.

[Julian23]

I was all for fae when i first heard blossom unbanned. Then i thought about it.... faeries were amazing because their competition wasn't much. I think you had kith kin and makeshift mannequin decks.

There was also Ramp with Cloudthresher and Lark and a little bit of Merfolk. I remember because I dropped from my National Qualifier at 3-0 (playing Faeries) to play in a 12-man Legacy event (playing Enchantress) that won me a Grandmother Sengir

[Bed Decks Palyer]

There was also Ramp with Cloudthresher and Lark and a little bit of Merfolk. I remember because I dropped from my National Qualifier at 3-0 (playing Faeries) to play in a 12-man Legacy event (playing Enchantress) that won me a Grandmother Sengir

You won Grandmother Sengir? :cry:

[jamesh]

increasingly Wizards are going to have to be careful about who knows about changes to the banned and restricted list - there is obviously a lot of money to be made

[Dan Turner]

There was also Ramp with Cloudthresher and Lark and a little bit of Merfolk. I remember because I dropped from my National Qualifier at 3-0 (playing Faeries) to play in a 12-man Legacy event (playing Enchantress) that won me a Grandmother Sengir

If that was a prize I would concede just to piss my opponent off for having to take it.

[Megadeus]

If that was a prize I would concede just to piss my opponent off for having to take it.

Nah. I'd frame that shit

[nedleeds]

Any moderately good modern rare or mythic that didn't get Modern Masterbated is pretty volatile. Hierarch was obviously going to skyrocket after the banning of the best mana dork, it has only a judge foil ... it's played in Vintage, Legacy and Modern, has casual appeal, etc..

If you didn't own four and never picked them up in the last 2 years you have nobody to blame but Obama. Without DRS around to hold Snapcaster in check it'll be $30+ in no time as well ...

[Megadeus]

Any moderately good modern rare or mythic that didn't get Modern Masterbated is pretty volatile. Hierarch was obviously going to skyrocket after the banning of the best mana dork, it has only a judge foil ... it's played in Vintage, Legacy and Modern, has casual appeal, etc..

If you didn't own four and never picked them up in the last 2 years you have nobody to blame but Obama. Without DRS around to hold Snapcaster in check it'll be $30+ in no time as well ...

Agreed. I plan on picking up my set of Snaps this weekend in Nashville.

[nedleeds]

another card that was being held back by the omnipresent shaman is Vengevine ... it's also a Mythic from an insanely hard to find set ...

[Megadeus]

Hopefully I didn't get ripped by the random Canadian MOTL guy for my Vengevines... The rippers are always fucking Canadian.

I find it quite hilarious that the MOTL and High End magic group are both flooded with Faerie cards that have spiked. And also everyone and their mother is trying to buy foil deathrites at 40 dollar now.

[mini1337s]

Hopefully I didn't get ripped by the random Canadian MOTL guy for my Vengevines... The rippers are always fucking Canadian.

I find it quite hilarious that the MOTL and High End magic group are both flooded with Faerie cards that have spiked. And also everyone and their mother is trying to buy foil deathrites at 40 dollar now.
Shoot me his details and I'm happy to let you know if it's safe.

High-end Magic group is a waste of fucking time. Got out of that ages ago; a bigger nonsensical circlejerk than the B/R thread.

[danyul]

Shoot me his details and I'm happy to let you know if it's safe.

High-end Magic group is a waste of fucking time. Got out of that ages ago; a bigger nonsensical circlejerk than the B/R thread.

Are there better/more convenient online communities? I am honestly curious. I don't know, and I was thinking of possibly selling a few things.

[Megadeus]

Shoot me his details and I'm happy to let you know if it's safe.

High-end Magic group is a waste of fucking time. Got out of that ages ago; a bigger nonsensical circlejerk than the B/R thread.

I'll PM you his MOTL handle. To be fair, mail may be slow so it could just be that. He has good refs (hence why I was okay with sending first). Still. I almost got ripped by Strickland a couple months back on a fake profile so I am always a little hesitant.

[ahg113]

another card that was being held back by the omnipresent shaman is Vengevine ... it's also a Mythic from an insanely hard to find set ...

Lotus Cobra could fill some of the gap by DRS, mythic mana accel guy. Although it was from a very opened set, unlike Vengevine.

[Megadeus]

Are there better/more convenient online communities? I am honestly curious. I don't know, and I was thinking of possibly selling a few things.

Sorry for the double post, but generally it's okay to sell on MOTL as long as you make sure you get paid first.

[mini1337s]

Are there better/more convenient online communities? I am honestly curious. I don't know, and I was thinking of possibly selling a few things.
http://forums.magictraders.com/Ultimate.cgi is my choice, but it's expected that members with low references send to high ref members before receiving payment. Lots of value hustlers.
High End Magic is flaky as hell and people act like hotter shit than they really are. There are good members, many of whom are on this forum, but there is a TON of chaff that commit to a trade/sale and never fall through.
I've heard ok things about Pucatrade, but never tried it out. Same with Deckbox, but I can't imagine it's much different than Magic Online Traders.
Honestly, any online trading community has its toxic members and shitty experiences, so it really boils down to personal preference. I've got 5 digits in MOTL Buys/Sales/Trades without any notable issues (1 or 2 minor condition discrepancies, but all worked out well).

[danyul]

I'll look into some of those other options. The FB group is fun for browsing but I too have found it somewhat impractical for transactions over $100. It just feels too insecure. Thanks for the tips.

[nedleeds]

Lotus Cobra could fill some of the gap by DRS, mythic mana accel guy. Although it was from a very opened set, unlike Vengevine.

Yeah, that's a good call. It's pretty explosive with fetchlands. I've been looking for Russian Cobra 3 and 4 for fucking ever.

[jamesh]

High-end Magic group is a waste of fucking time. Got out of that ages ago; a bigger nonsensical circlejerk than the B/R thread.

it's fucking terrible
ebay is still the best option for pimp items - it takes a long time but you can eventually get everything you want at the best prices

[apple713]

Shoot me his details and I'm happy to let you know if it's safe.

High-end Magic group is a waste of fucking time. Got out of that ages ago; a bigger nonsensical circlejerk than the B/R thread.

I though that fb group would be usefull but its like all the seller have never been to ebay and are asking premiums. The other half of the posts arny very high end. Foil blood moons.... There are non foil standard cards worth more

[Megadeus]

I though that fb group would be usefull but its like all the seller have never been to ebay and are asking premiums. The other half of the posts arny very high end. Foil blood moons.... There are non foil standard cards worth more

Yeah half the people in there just want retarded prices. Guy offered me 130 on Gaea's Cradle... As if I can't get it at my LGS for that price.

[Barook]

What the hell has happened to Noble Hierarch (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Conflux/Noble+Hierarch)?

It's obviously related to the Modern Banned List changes, but do people except more Zoo now or what's the reason?

[mini1337s]

What the hell has happened to Noble Hierarch (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Conflux/Noble+Hierarch)?

It's obviously related to the Modern Banned List changes, but do people except more Zoo now or what's the reason?
Well, DRS is gone, so now this is the premier Mana Dork. Lots of spec too, but generally just the DRS replacement.

[Arsenal]

What the hell has happened to Noble Hierarch (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Conflux/Noble+Hierarch)?

It's obviously related to the Modern Banned List changes, but do people except more Zoo now or what's the reason?

Zoo, maybe. I suspect it's also because Pod is looking really, really well positioned right now.

[Barook]

Zoo, maybe. I suspect it's also because Pod is looking really, really well positioned right now.
It's probably Zoo, considering how KotR and Arid Mesa rose in price as well.

[Lemnear]

It's probably Zoo, considering how KotR and Arid Mesa rose in price as well.

My bet is also on Big Zoo (feat. elspeth and Garruk Relentless)

[jamesh]

Wasteland has just doubled its price in the last month. Star City is selling it for $25. Even Troll and Toad is offering this tempest rare land for $20. This cards, if I am not committing a mistake, closed the year 2009 in a healthy 10 dollars per each.


Now sold out at $100 - it's actually an uncommon.

[luckme10]

Now sold out at $100 - it's actually an uncommon.

I blame pack to power, quietspeculation.com (Creation date: 10 Jun 2009 14:03:00 ), mystics, and the starcitygames open circuit

[apple713]

Now sold out at $100 - it's actually an uncommon.

Untill it gets a mass reprint

It will be healthy for modern

[prateta]

Untill it gets a mass reprint

It will be healthy for modern

I doubt so. Let's say they reprint Wasteland in m15 as a mythic (not very probable they would print it as a rare, see Tarmogoyf). It would become modern legal and the price would spike overnight straight up to the sky. I honestly believe the same would happen even if it were reprinted as an ordinary rare.

The only way I can see Wasteland going down (when reprinted) is if they would massively reprint it at least 2-3 times. And that just won't happen, we all know how keen WoTC are in the matter of reprinting high value cards. Don't underestimate the number of players playing modern.

[apple713]

I doubt so. Let's say they reprint Wasteland in m15 as a mythic (not very probable they would print it as a rare, see Tarmogoyf). It would become modern legal and the price would spike overnight straight up to the sky. I honestly believe the same would happen even if it were reprinted as an ordinary rare.

The only way I can see Wasteland going down (when reprinted) is if they would massively reprint it at least 2-3 times. And that just won't happen, we all know how keen WoTC are in the matter of reprinting high value cards. Don't underestimate the number of players playing modern.

It should be an uncommon as it was originally. Rarity is used for mostly for limited.

Wasteland is a great card in legacy because everyone is greedy. How popular is blood moon/ magus in modern? That would be a good indicTion of wastelands sucess there.

Wasteland is also an important card to balance the format. They could unbann vesuva is they reprinted wasteland

[Barook]

It should be an uncommon as it was originally. Rarity is used for mostly for limited.

Wasteland is a great card in legacy because everyone is greedy. How popular is blood moon/ magus in modern? That would be a good indicTion of wastelands sucess there.

Wasteland is also an important card to balance the format. They could unbann vesuva is they reprinted wasteland
Wasteland is already pretty good in a format where we have the original duals.

Taking two bolts to the face for free due fetching up shocklands doesn't sound too hot, especially when you lose them to Wasteland afterwards.

Dust Bowl would probably more appropriate card for Modern - still slow and requires a bunch of resources, but doesn't fucking suck like all the shitty Wasteland variants Wizards has printed lately.

Edit: I just had a bad feeling and looked up Karakas on SCG - for how long has it been 120$ on SCG? It's out of stock, at least the Legends version.

I wouldn't be suprised if it became one of the next targets of speculators, especially more white decks (especially D&T) around. The price is way too stable for that.

[Sigar]

I believe River of Tears is the next card that will increase in value. It's the best U/B dual land for the Modern Faeries deck, and has only been printed in Future Sight. All the other Faerie cards have already seen a price burst, so I guess it's only a matter of time till people realize how good it is.

[apple713]

I believe River of Tears is the next card that will increase in value. It's the best U/B dual land for the Modern Faeries deck, and has only been printed in Future Sight. All the other Faerie cards have already seen a price burst, so I guess it's only a matter of time till people realize how good it is.

Sunken ruins would like to have a word with you

[Sigar]

Are you kidding? Sunken Ruins doesn't cast turn 1 discard, and is garbage with Mutavault. You might wanna run 1, maybe 2 Sunken Ruins, whereas River of Tears is a clear 4-of.

[Megadeus]

River of tears went up to like 8-10 bucks a couple of days ago

[Sigar]

Where? It's still pretty cheap here https://www.magiccardmarket.eu/River_of_Tears_Future_Sight.c1p15171.prod. Guess one should buy some when they're still low then! :D

[Barook]

Hooray for sweepers! (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/1426)

Looks like another edition of "From the Vault: Worthless Shit".

[Arsenal]

Hooray for sweepers! (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/1426)

Looks like another edition of "From the Vault: Worthless Shit".

I've always been curious as to who the targeted audience is for FTV stuff. Serious collectors would want the originals (Beta Wrath of Gods), players normally don't care too much as long as it's tourney-legal, and casual kitchen table players probably won't want to spend $35 on something that can be had for far less? Maybe I'm wrong as there's obviously a market for this stuff, I'm just having a hard time understanding who actually spends their hard earned money on this stuff.

[Barook]

I've always been curious as to who the targeted audience is for FTV stuff.
Speculators? :confused:

Who else would it be aimed at, considering the amounts of worthless crap they include in every FtV stuff, aside from the money rare? The first two FtV had a decent power level going on, but then it went all to hell.

[danyul]

They are presumably for collectors but value junkies and speculators are the ones buying them up before anybody else can get them.

It doesn't matter how you feel about them or how much you hate the foiling process or how boring the cards are. The fact is, if you can get these at retail, you are going to make some money.

Actually, I take all that back. These are just for anybody with 35 bucks to burn who lives near a store willing to sell them at retail. Everybody knows you can resell or trade them and make some easy value. I've seen all kinds of people go crazy trying to preorder these - from super trade sharks to average FNM schlubs.

[Octopusman]

Hooray for sweepers! (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/1426)

Looks like another edition of "From the Vault: Worthless Shit".

Damnation could use a reprint but it seems inevitable that Wrath of God will be in this set even though it doesn't need to be. Foil 7th is the hotness for foil though ftv will be new border.

They did Disk in relics. Maybe Akroma's Vengeance?

Trying to think of a sweeper that needs to be reprinted and all I can come up with is Rolling Earthquake (please god).

[ahg113]

What sweepers are really worthwhile for this product anyway? Damnation might be the only expensive sweeper that comes to mind.

Wrath of God
Hallowed Burial
Supreme Verdict
Black Sun's Zenith
Earthquake
Jokulhaups
Nevinyrral's Disk
Oblivion Stone
Armageddon
Death Cloud


Seems pretty weak for a theme. Not like these cards aren't gettable, really searched for.

[Shawon]

Pernicious Deed needs a new art reprint.

[Lemnear]

I would sell Judge Vindicates and stuff before this Sees further spoiler...


Pernicious Deed needs a new art reprint.

The Judge FOIL is Hot




Edit: I see chances for cheaper Sinkholes and Wastelands in there

[Scott]

Yoooo Ravages of War. Does Karn Liberated count as annihilation?

[Barook]

Burning of Xinye is also one of the more expensive sweepers. Ravages of War is out of question due to price reasons.

They could jam in Emrakul as well (he has an Annihilator trigger, after all).

@Lemnear: Why exactly Vindicate? It already got a foil Judge promo - twice.

We might get cheap crap like Pyroclasm or Desert Twister. Otherwise, that one guy at Wizards who rubs his dick when including terrible low-value cards into FtV sets would go limp.

[phonics]

FTV: Ravages of War + Overwhelming Forces get hype!

[Shawon]

Actually, Apocalypse could use a new makeover as well... *checking right now if it's on RL*

EDIT: Darn, it's on RL. *shakes fist*

[Scott]

Actually, Apocalypse could use a new makeover as well... *checking right now if it's on RL*

EDIT: Darn, it's on RL. *shakes fist*

I did the same thing for Hellfire. I actually like the art on both, but it's always good to get multiple art options and more cards to play with.

[Megadeus]

My prediction is Ravages or ROlling Earthquake.

[ahg113]

I would sell Judge Vindicates and stuff before this Sees further spoiler...
Edit: I see chances for cheaper Sinkholes and Wastelands in there

Sinkhole and wasteland, while reprint eligible (technically) aren't sweepers. Why would they be included in this set? Same with Vindicate.

Prenicious Deed was missed, and would be a valued addition.

[TsumiBand]

Guys, it's just going to be 15 cards that make +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters.

"During your upkeep, put X +1/+1 counters on each Centaur you control, where X is the number of -1/-1 counters on those Centaurs. If you don't control any Centaurs with -1/-1 counters, put a +1/+1 counter on each creature an opponent controls. For every +1/+1 counter put on a creature this way, put a -1/-1 counter on that creature."

[apple713]

Anyone think LED's are undervalued right now?

thinking about making an investment in a bunch. Just seems like everything else in legacy jumped but these.

[JPoJohnson]

If y don't have a play set of LEDs, then you should! They're too good and haven't jumped yet (not sure if they will, and if they do... When)

[jamesh]

FTV is popular with casuals - if something like O stone gets reprinted all the edh players will want it for their decks

[Jim Higginbottom]

Anyone think LED's are undervalued right now?

thinking about making an investment in a bunch. Just seems like everything else in legacy jumped but these.


If y don't have a play set of LEDs, then you should! They're too good and haven't jumped yet (not sure if they will, and if they do... When)

As a Realtor for the last 10 years this investment thesis sounds very familiar.

[Koby]

The "gotcha" card for the set:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/in/94.jpg

[Mr Miagi]

Everbody hoard LEDs now! Before the fakes overflood the market!

Makes sense :really:

[ESG]

The "gotcha" card for the set:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/in/94.jpg

Ha! Koby, you are so right.

[GoblinSettler]

If y don't have a play set of LEDs, then you should! They're too good and haven't jumped yet (not sure if they will, and if they do... When)

There was a spike on LED's last summer. Probably based on speculation. Prices actually came back down.

...

On to the bitching. Man, wish I picked up a Tabernacle. Had several chances before each of the recent spikes.

[anonymos]

The FTV art that got shown goes to Inferno. How's that for a junk card?

[mcfarland]

The FTV art that got shown goes to Inferno. How's that for a junk card?

Source for this? Doesn't look very inferno-y to me.

[apple713]

Obliterate

[Guie]

There was a spike on LED's last summer. Probably based on speculation. Prices actually came back down.

...

On to the bitching. Man, wish I picked up a Tabernacle. Had several chances before each of the recent spikes.

Yep, same here. $650 for a pair of English Tabernacles. Watched them for a good 2-3 months. Didn't make sense to purchase one or both right after getting back into the game. I would still needs Grove, Dark Depths, Maze of Ith, Port, Wasteland, Mox Diamond, et al.

[apple713]

Yep, same here. $650 for a pair of English Tabernacles. Watched them for a good 2-3 months. Didn't make sense to purchase one or both right after getting back into the game. I would still needs Grove, Dark Depths, Maze of Ith, Port, Wasteland, Mox Diamond, et al.


tabernacle is not really that great anyways.... the format is playing griselbrands and emrakuls, or TNN wearing Jitte, or batter skull. none of which are affected by tabernacle..

[Tyrio]

tabernacle is not really that great anyways.... the format is playing griselbrands and emrakuls, or TNN wearing Jitte, or batter skull. none of which are affected by tabernacle..

It's pretty hard to get to TNN's wearing Jitte's when your deck is running no basics and your opponent is running 4-5 Wastelands, Rishadan Port, Loam, Tabernacles and tutors for them all. Tabernacle is an actual alternate win condition against RUG, BUG, UWR, and Deathblade et all.

[Megadeus]

Considering since half of your opponents have never played against tabernacle and it just become a zero mana plague wind, I would say it is strong

[Tyrio]

Considering since half of your opponents have never played against tabernacle and it just become a zero mana plague wind, I would say it is strong

I have never gotten anyone immediately after playing Tabernacle. It's always a few turns later after I chat them up, ask to see their graveyard, how many cards in hand, how's their day been going, etc. right as I end my turn. It's all about that misdirection...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxTHeyKuXGw

[ESG]

Considering since half of your opponents have never played against tabernacle and it just become a zero mana plague wind, I would say it is strong

Oh, man. Yes. I watched video of Kennen Haas' games at SCG Indy, and this happened TWICE in the Top 8. Enormous value.

No misdirection that I could see. His opponents simply went on autopilot after he passed the turn and went right to the draw step ...

[FTW]

My predictions:


Desert Twister
Meteor Shower
Hurricane
Plague Boiler
Ruination
Mageta the Lion
Martial Coup
Ulamog's Crusher
It That Betrays
Decree of Annihilation
Carnifex Demon
Living End
Plague Wind
Curse of the Swine
Cyclonic Rift

[nedleeds]

Watch Ensnaring Bridge rise ............................

[kusumoto]

Watch Ensnaring Bridge rise ............................

It's in 7th, 8th, and Stronghold.

This is so stupid.

[TsumiBand]

Wtf why is Bridge topping out at 25? Some Modern junk?

sent from phone, don't be a dick

[JPoJohnson]

Wtf why is Bridge topping out at 25? Some Modern junk?

sent from phone, don't be a dick

I don't see that anywhere. I see it for sale everywhere under 10 still. Where am I not looking? (SCG is still at 15 or so a piece as well).

[TsumiBand]

I don't see that anywhere. I see it for sale everywhere under 10 still. Where am I not looking? (SCG is still at 15 or so a piece as well).

tcgplayer.com, though i may have been dumb and glanced at the foil price. X_x

It did jump a little in November 2013 though. It mid/lows for way under 25. I saw nedleeds comment, just was curious.

sent from phone, don't be a dick

[nedleeds]

Yeah SCG is trying to level set the bottom @ $15

SO MUCH BRIDGE! TEZZERET SO SAFES! MANY GERRARDS!


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vUV2FeSXSdk/UlxCoaybj9I/AAAAAAAACF4/EM68uZjlNcY/s912/IMAG0762.jpg

[Shawon]

Mega props for recognizing Null Brooch, nedleeds. Such an underrated card...

[Koby]

Mega props for recognizing Null Brooch, nedleeds. Such an underrated card...

Card is bonkers, but only when you're already in a favorable position as a Shop deck.

[Megadeus]

Nedleeds recognizes every cards power level. Even if it is miniscule

[Barook]

D&T staples are on a massive rise - interestingly enough, it all started at February 3rd (except SFM):

http://mtgstocks.com/news/24

That 30$ Port increase is insane, though.

I DO predict a sharp increase for Karakas soon, especially when people are going to run a 4th copy alongside Brimaz.

[Shawon]

That 30$ Port increase is insane, though.


http://store.tcgplayer.com/magic/mercadian-masques/rishadan-port

TCG is getting a little unreliable these days. This Port pricing is bogus because there's only 7 sellers, which makes sense for the absurd median price of $119.

[Megadeus]

FWIW Tarn and Misty are both 70 SCG now

[Valtrix]

Yeah, I was wondering about the price increases recently, for Rishadan Port in particular. I understand the price increases over time, but this huge of a jump in such a short amount of time seems insane. Certain cards have gone up a lot more than others, but since the beginning of 2014 there seems to have been a huge price spike, compared to relatively stable prices in 2013. Anybody have thoughts on this?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Yeah, I was wondering about the price increases recently, for Rishadan Port in particular. I understand the price increases over time, but this huge of a jump in such a short amount of time seems insane. Certain cards have gone up a lot more than others, but since the beginning of 2014 there seems to have been a huge price spike, compared to relatively stable prices in 2013. Anybody have thoughts on this?

GP Paris?

[Amon Amarth]

Yeah, I was wondering about the price increases recently, for Rishadan Port in particular. I understand the price increases over time, but this huge of a jump in such a short amount of time seems insane. Certain cards have gone up a lot more than others, but since the beginning of 2014 there seems to have been a huge price spike, compared to relatively stable prices in 2013. Anybody have thoughts on this?

Port sees play in Lands, which has been doing pretty damn well recently. It also sees play in D&T. Both decks run it as a four-of. Port is also from a set that is over a decade old, that wasn't very popular and has no chance of seeing a reprint in Standard thus relegating it as a possible reprint in supplemental products which rarely effect the prices of the original cards, not for long anyway.

[Barook]

Why is Goyf on the rise again?

[Megadeus]

Why is Goyf on the rise again?

I dont see a price change?

[Barook]

I dont see a price change?
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Future+Sight/Tarmogoyf
Pretty significant jump on MODO and he rises in Paper since the BotG release as well.

[Megadeus]

Modern PT coming up. Best creature in modern = price jump. Probably wont be permanent

[Shawon]

SCG is out of Ports. It sits at $99.99. If they get more Ports in stock, will the price go up? In other words, should I sell my 1x Port now if I need the money or wait to see if SCG raises the price?

[Megadeus]

No reason to sell unless you are desperate. The price definitely isn't going down

[Phelix]

well i guess you answered that one yourself - yes sell now if you need the Money.

food > cardboard. most of the time.

[Megadeus]

well i guess you answered that one yourself - yes sell now if you need the Money.

food > cardboard. most of the time.

This man disagrees. Food = Cardboard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtXfKce3eug

[Shawon]

I intend on selling my Port within a month from now, because I could use the cash. I was more or less asking on when would be the optimal time to sell - before SCG buys more Ports, or wait and see if the price would go up after they receive more Ports in stock.

[Megadeus]

I mean, I dont see any reason to sell now. They only can go up. If they restock at 100, you've lost nothing, if they restock at 120, you've gained some.

[jamesh]

I mean, I dont see any reason to sell now. They only can go up.

What about if there is a reprint. With the current value Wizards would be stupid not to reprint it in some form to get some $$$.

[Megadeus]

Why would they? Especially not in the next month. They don't give a shit about Legacy prices. The card is probably too good for modern. What set would you fit it in? Doubt they would put in into a commander set. Maybe a FTV or something? Even then, I doubt it. Judge promo won't bring the price down.

[Shawon]

They could have reprinted Port in FTV Realms, but they didn't. Next FTV is Annihilation, which comes out August. Port is definitely not going to be reprinted in that, I can assure you.

I'm not worried in the least about a Port reprint in the next month. Not going to happen.

Essentially, all I'm concerned about is gaining an extra $20-$30 on my Port when I sell it. I'll probably hold onto the Port a little longer, and maybe wait out on selling the Goyf I got on trade this weekend as well.


Man, I hope Nykthos spikes soon. I bought 5 in bulk for $6.40 each!

[apple713]

Port sees play in Lands, which has been doing pretty damn well recently. It also sees play in D&T. Both decks run it as a four-of. Port is also from a set that is over a decade old, that wasn't very popular and has no chance of seeing a reprint in Standard thus relegating it as a possible reprint in supplemental products which rarely effect the prices of the original cards, not for long anyway.

port could defiantly be reprinted in standard and its not on the reserve list so it makes perfect sense for something like a core set. Dont think rishadan port is OP since modern standard doesn't really have to tools to abuse it.



Anyone have an opinion on EUREKA as the next 200$ card from legends?

[ESG]

Anyone have an opinion on EUREKA as the next 200$ card from legends?

Worse than Show and Tell in several ways. It could potentially be playable if Show and Tell gets banned someday, but it's much harder to abuse. A lot of games would be different if Show and Tell allowed the opposing player to drop in a Planeswalker. Well, Eureka lets the player do that and more.

[warfordium]

putting together UWr for a random modern GPT this weekend—$40 Cryptic Command?!?! $12 Celestial Colonnade? Modern Masters II can't come soon enough.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

port could defiantly be reprinted in standard

Not with a name like Rishadan Port.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Drizztjah]

port could defiantly be reprinted in standard and its not on the reserve list so it makes perfect sense for something like a core set. Dont think rishadan port is OP since modern standard doesn't really have to tools to abuse it.



Anyone have an opinion on EUREKA as the next 200$ card from legends?
Rishadan Port is banned in standard, so somehow i doubt that.

[JPoJohnson]

Based on their recent 'reprint' of Wasteland in the form of Encroaching Wastes

We could always get Port of Ravnica 2: Tap target land.:rolleyes:

[mini1337s]

If Eureka was the real deal, it would have been dominating since Griselbees and co. Show and Tell is easier to cast, faster to cast, and your opponent doesn't have the chance to drop in multiple hate permanents. If it goes up, it's because speculators think they can make every card in Legends $200.

[Lt. Quattro]

port could defiantly be reprinted in standard and its not on the reserve list so it makes perfect sense for something like a core set. Dont think rishadan port is OP since modern standard doesn't really have to tools to abuse it.



Anyone have an opinion on EUREKA as the next 200$ card from legends?

When has wizards ever reprinted a $100 card in a standard set?

Never.

[apple713]

When has wizards ever reprinted a $100 card in a standard set?

Never.

They havent yet but it doesnt mean they wont.

Thoughtseize was awfully close to 100 tho and it got reprinted.

Rishadan port shouldnt be a 100 card either. Thanks scg


I feel like scg will have the mtg bubble pop on them like the housing market. At a certain point people stop joining the pool of legacy players and no one buys an underground sea because scg wants to sell it for $400. 400 price point is probably only a couple years away.

[Megadeus]

Port is most definitely too powerful for STD and Modern. This is the same R&D who thinks Stone Rain is OP.

[jandax]

They havent yet but it doesnt mean they wont.

Thoughtseize was awfully close to 100 tho and it got reprinted.

Rishadan port shouldnt be a 100 card either. Thanks scg


I feel like scg will have the mtg bubble pop on them like the housing market. At a certain point people stop joining the pool of legacy players and no one buys an underground sea because scg wants to sell it for $400. 400 price point is probably only a couple years away.

They'll just get a WotC bailout...

[mini1337s]

If SCG is pricing Underground Seas at $250, it's because there are people out there paying $250 for them. These aren't Alpha or Beta duals, so the price isn't based on collectibility, it's based on demand. Limited supply + high demand = $250 Underground Seas. If the demand declines, the price will go down. SCG is a real business with a big payroll and a lot of operating expenses; they can't afford to outprice their customers.

[Megadeus]

I mean, if they know they can get 250 for them, then why not charge that? I hate that they are so ridiculously expensive because I dont own any, but thats jsut the way it is.

So I agree mini

[Lt. Quattro]

They havent yet but it doesnt mean they wont.

Thoughtseize was awfully close to 100 tho and it got reprinted.

Rishadan port shouldnt be a 100 card either. Thanks scg


I feel like scg will have the mtg bubble pop on them like the housing market. At a certain point people stop joining the pool of legacy players and no one buys an underground sea because scg wants to sell it for $400. 400 price point is probably only a couple years away.

Thoughtseize was never close to a $100, this shows it was $65 at its highest, it was probably cheaper on ebay.http://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/3296

Why shouldn't port be a $100 card? It's 15 years old, its the only money rare from an unpopular set, its used as a 4 of in the decks that use it and its seeing increased use from lands decks.


From Mark Rosewaters Blogatog, September 08, 2013:

agahin asked: is Rishadan Port too strong to be reprinted?

Let me start by reminding you that I am not a developer and thus power level is not my area of expertise.

That said, yes.

[apple713]

They'll just get a WotC bailout...
The only bailout at that point is to get rid of the reserve list to increase supply.


If SCG is pricing Underground Seas at $250, it's because there are people out there paying $250 for them. These aren't Alpha or Beta duals, so the price isn't based on collectibility, it's based on demand. Limited supply + high demand = $250 Underground Seas. If the demand declines, the price will go down. SCG is a real business with a big payroll and a lot of operating expenses; they can't afford to outprice their customers.
When scg raises prices so do other stores on tcg player. Ebay gets bought out be ause ppl expect a spike.

See how those events change the price level with no chNge in demand?


Thoughtseize was never close to a $100, this shows it was $65 at its highest, it was probably cheaper on ebay.http://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/3296

Why shouldn't port be a $100 card? It's 15 years old, its the only money rare from an unpopular set, its used as a 4 of in the decks that use it and its seeing increased use from lands decks.

Karakas should be higher than port by your reasoning

[snorlaxcom]

Karakas should be higher than port by your reasoning

No. Karakas is an uncommon and not a four of in decks that play it. D&t needs 4 port, but budget versions can skimp on using 3 karakas. Porting is more relevant in more games in decks running port than the situational utility of a karakas. The judge printing and legend type of the card helps regulate its value, too.

[mini1337s]

When scg raises prices so do other stores on tcg player. Ebay gets bought out be ause ppl expect a spike.
See how those events change the price level with no chNge in demand?

As Magic cards can't be individually printed on demand, in order to sell Underground Seas, SCG needs to buy them from players/collectors. Eventually, they sell out of Underground Seas at $200 but their buylist prices are no longer sufficient to continue motivating people to sell to their store. In order to replenish stock, they need raise their buylist prices to incentivize people to sell to their store. As they are a business, they need to increase revenue and profit, so they subsequently raise their selling price.
So TLDR, people buying $200 Underground Seas makes it more difficult for SCG to buylist at an level that they can profitably resell $200 Underground Seas, so the sell price is raised.
Sure, SCG has a huge influence on the market, and they have the ability to arbitrarily increase cards, but there is more of a method to the madness than "derp make U Sea $250."

[snorlaxcom]

Port price jump is crazy, but the foil has got to be insane if the dust ever settles.

[Kayradis]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/0394328a1d2d552212f90f587542341d/tumblr_n0ztv7zMyM1s5rsdao1_1280.jpg

This is what's happening here.

[Shawon]

Port is $130 on SCG. Still out of stock. (http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardsearch.php?singlesearch=rishadan+port&game_type=1)

Yeah, I'm fucking selling my Port x1 today. Almost regret trading my Port + 3 DRS for MM Goyf over the weekend ($136 v. $150 then, $166 v. $150 now), but at least I know MM Goyf will spike over time.

[Kayradis]

So glad I bought so much shit at GP DC!
4 x Cabal Therapy (Judgement) Foil = 100$ Now? 200$
4 x Rishadan Ports = 240$ Now? 480$

Bragging about smart buys = FUCKING PRICELESS!

[Shawon]

So glad I bought so much shit at GP DC!
4 x Cabal Therapy (Judgement) Foil = 100$ Now? 200$
4 x Rishadan Ports = 240$ Now? 480$

Bragging about smart buys = FUCKING PRICELESS!

It is fucking priceless. I have no idea which Port I still have, but of the two, one I won at a tourney for a $20 entry, and the other I bought in like 2007 for $8. :cool:

[Arsenal]

As someone who purchased Ports back in 2006/2007 for my Goblins deck, all I can say is WTF is happening. There's no way that the ever-so slight uptick in Lands/Jund Depths play is resulting in this astronomical increase. D&T isn't being played anymore than it has been over the last two years, in fact, it may be seeing even less play post-TNN. I just hate the economics of Magic so much.

[danyul]

How much does a Magic card have to be worth in order for it to be worth more than its weight in gold?

And how does that number change when we take foils into account? (Because foils are slightly heavier)

I probably could have Googled that, but it's more fun to ask here.

[Kayradis]

25$ and up.
And an once of tarmagoyfs if stupid.

[Exuberance]

How much does a Magic card have to be worth in order for it to be worth more than it's weight in gold?

And how does that number change when we take foils into account? (Because foils are slightly heavier)

I probably could have Googled that, but it's more fun to ask here.

Gold is $1322 per ounce.
A Magic card weighs 0.064 ounces.

Ergo, a golden Magic card is worth about $84-$85 dollars.

Nice duals, dogg!

EDIT: Wait, that's troy ounces. Damn. Uh... I give up.

[danyul]

I hate math, but these websites say that a Troy ounce = 1.09714 avoirdupois ounces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_ounce

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoirdupois

So what does that mean?

[Kayradis]

Got bored.
An ounce of Mox Pearl(UNL) is 9002.81$ US
1 once of Mox = 6 onces of Gold.
Just sayin'

[Lt. Quattro]

As someone who purchased Ports back in 2006/2007 for my Goblins deck, all I can say is WTF is happening. There's no way that the ever-so slight uptick in Lands/Jund Depths play is resulting in this astronomical increase. D&T isn't being played anymore than it has been over the last two years, in fact, it may be seeing even less play post-TNN. I just hate the economics of Magic so much.

I'm guessing that most of the ports that were bought don't enter back into circulation.

[Arsenal]

I'm guessing that most of the ports that were bought don't enter back into circulation.

I agree, although for such a sharp increase in price, you'd typically expect there to be an equal uptick in demand... I'm just not seeing it. A gradual, slower increase in price is normally what you'd expect if this was simply "it's an old card that isn't seeing recirculation... gotta appreciate the value 3-5% every few months".

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I found quite some article (http://www.cmus.cz/dnn/%C4%8Cl%C3%A1nky/V%C5%A1echny%C4%8Dl%C3%A1nky/tabid/265/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3824/Vlivy-na-ceny-karet-a-jejich-vvoj.aspx), czech it out.
Even without Google Trance, the price tables are interesting.

2001 CZK : USD = 40 : 1
2013 CZK : USD = 20 : 1

[Esper3k]

I recall there was a jump in Ports after Enevoldsen won with D&T at Strasbourg last year. I don't see any real reason for Ports to be going up so suddenly now though even with the slight uptick in Lands decks.

[Guie]

As someone who purchased Ports back in 2006/2007 for my Goblins deck, all I can say is WTF is happening. There's no way that the ever-so slight uptick in Lands/Jund Depths play is resulting in this astronomical increase. D&T isn't being played anymore than it has been over the last two years, in fact, it may be seeing even less play post-TNN. I just hate the economics of Magic so much.

Being a player just returning, I am glad to see a longtime current player make the exact comment I was thinking after reading the Spec/Spike thread on Reddit (sure there were others). Doesn't matter if it is Wasteland, Stoneforge, Bitterblossom, Threads of Disloyalty, Noble Hierarch, Fetch Lands, Duals, Rishadan Port, Grove of the Burnwillows, Cabal Therapy, etc.

I often see the same explanation regardless of whether or not a perfectly reasonable explanation exists: "price correction on an old card" or "buyout undervalued in demand card" -- It makes sense for several of the cards listed, and some of it is due to modern season/unbannings, but doesn't explain all of them.

Cabal Therapy is the most glaring example of nonsense. From what I understand it was a glitch on TCGPlayer causing only foil prices to be shown. Wish I could find the link where I read about the glitch.

I know SCG raised prices across the board on Legacy staples. I also noticed (when last I looked) they kept a lot of their buy prices exactly the same.

[Esper3k]

I don't have any problems with SCG raising prices and setting them how they see fit. If they can sell cards at higher prices, more power to them.

SCG has spent time and money to build their reputation and I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be able to profit from it.

If people are unwilling to pay the listed price then the market will make that known to sellers.

[Koby]

How much does a Magic card have to be worth in order for it to be worth more than its weight in gold?

And how does that number change when we take foils into account? (Because foils are slightly heavier)

I probably could have Googled that, but it's more fun to ask here.


At $100 for a piece of cardboard, you're now paying more per unit than for solid 24ct Gold. Keep that in mind.

100 ct Magic Cards = 0.4 British pounds * 16 oz / 1 British pound * 0.911458333 troy oz / 1 oz = 5.833 troy oz

Gold @ $1,655 / troy oz

100 ct Magic cards = $9654.17
1 ct Magic cards = $96.54

Query on TCGplayer (1/25/2013) - Tarmogoyf H: $129.99 M: $110.98 L: $97.00
FACT: Goyf is worth more than its weight in Gold.

While that calculation is old and based upon Gold @ $1655 per troy oz, the result is still absurd. MTG cards worth >$94 are more valuable than their own weight in gold today (@ $1324/troy oz)

[danyul]

Koby quotes ain't nothin to fuck with.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opbUESNnCe0&feature=kp

[Guie]

I don't have any problems with SCG raising prices and setting them how they see fit. If they can sell cards at higher prices, more power to them.

SCG has spent time and money to build their reputation and I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be able to profit from it.

If people are unwilling to pay the listed price then the market will make that known to sellers.

Would like to clarify that I don't have any issue with singles pricing either, just in case it came off that way. Just because I think an asking price is insane doesn't mean they can't ask it or people won't pay it.

Honestly, I have never been part of a hobby for any amount of time where there hasn't been a dealer priced well above the market. They have hard to find stuff in amazing condition and a small possibly wealthier subset of the collectible community is willing to pay through the nose. Some dealers specialize in paying ridiculous prices and selling at more ridiculous prices. Admittedly this evidence is purely anecdotal and probably completely wrong :laugh:

[apple713]

Rishadan port is approaching blue dual land prices .... Wtf

Anyone think this is a bubble and will burst?

[ESG]

Anyone think this is a bubble and will burst?

No. Vintage shows us that the ceiling is much, much higher. In Vintage, the collectible nature of power adds to the prices because players are competing with collectors to some degree, and the format has a much smaller population of players than Legacy. In Legacy, the price is driven more by headcount than collecting. People don't treat Force of Wills like Moxes, so there are more in circulation even after accounting for the much-higher FOW print run. Some people like to say that Legacy is pricing newcomers out, but there are a lot of folks who are showing themselves to be undeterred by higher prices. Just as an example, my LGS had 40 people last night for its basic weekly. That's pretty incredible. That's double the average from two years ago. Among the players was some little kid -- who couldn't have been more than 14 years old -- who told me that he has been systematically trading his Standard cards up into dual lands, and that he is closing in on a playset. Legacy has roughly doubled in price because way more people are playing the format now. Also, it's important to note that prices have increased across the board because more people are playing Magic, whether that's tournament Magic or kitchen table Magic.

[Mr.C]

Rishadan port is approaching blue dual land prices .... Wtf

Anyone think this is a bubble and will burst?

Depends on how long people think a couple grand is ok for a Legacy deck.

I can only speak for myself, but Legacy is completely unaffordable to me right now. Mind you, I make a decent living, but 2-3k on a good Legacy deck is nuts.

I've definitely been priced out of the format.

[Koby]

Depends on how long people think a couple grand is ok for a Legacy deck.

I can only speak for myself, but Legacy is completely unaffordable to me right now. Mind you, I make a decent living, but 2-3k on a good Legacy deck is nuts.

I've definitely been priced out of the format.

Likewise, and having spent the equivalent of a Tier 1 deck on home repairs in one sitting, I can't see how people consider this to be affordable.

There are certainly people who make not be deterred by the high prices. I can't imagine getting into Legacy at this time with an expectation of being able to play whatever deck I want, and I joined up when Underground Sea could still be bought for $80, and fetchlands were $20. This current trend is unsustainable.

For fuck's sake - we're comparing price of singles to their weight in gold. We're beyond the realm of normal hobbies and into luxury items now.

[JPoJohnson]

Likewise, and having spent the equivalent of a Tier 1 deck on home repairs in one sitting, I can't see how people consider this to be affordable.

There are certainly people who make not be deterred by the high prices. I can't imagine getting into Legacy at this time with an expectation of being able to play whatever deck I want, and I joined up when Underground Sea could still be bought for $80, and fetchlands were $20. This current trend is unsustainable.

For fuck's sake - we're comparing price of singles to their weight in gold. We're beyond the realm of normal hobbies and into luxury items now.

This is so true. There were a handful of cards I needed to get to finish off 2-3 legacy decks... I've decided to sell off the pieces I had since there is no way I'm going to drop what is required to grab the small handful of cards left. I can't believe how expensive they've gotten recently, it's unrealistic.

[John Cox]

It's funny but my friends all play casual, the only reason I played legacy was for nostalgia. I ended up selling my cards and buying a vintage doomsday deck because it was cheaper.

[Phelix]

Sure, its more expensive than playing settlers, but less expensive than hookers and powerboating, as far as hobbies go.

If i ever quit, im not taking up boardgames...

[Barook]

People bitch and complain how the Reserve List drives up the prices, yet all cards of D&T are 100% reprintable. 100%!

It's just Wizards being dicks with speculators and market manipulators doing the rest.

[Scott]

In the same manner in which rabble-rousers contact Mark Rosewater and Aaron Forsythe on design-related matters, to whom would one write regarding Reserved List/reprint/financial health of the game matters? Who has ze power and authoritah?

[ESG]

For fuck's sake - we're comparing price of singles to their weight in gold. We're beyond the realm of normal hobbies and into luxury items now.

I don't disagree, but let's also remember that there's a Pimp Legacy Decks thread (right below this thread, amusingly), and those decks are clearly way more expensive than the average Legacy 75. There are also a lot of different posters in that thread; it's not just nedleeds and sdematt sharing pictures of their finery.

[Higgs]

Until last year I used to be in the camp for the reserve list. For me, accessibility has always been an important aspect of the game. So I thought it was OK and a natural part of Magic to have to work your way towards the deck you want to play. I had my journey when collecting my staples, it was a fun and rewarding process in itself. I didn't agree with people who thought they were entitled to get the deck they want, when they want. I still think that collectibility is an important aspect of the game, but I also think that it is fucking out of control now. A line has to be drawn somewhere. If I were to start from scratch now, probably I wouldn't do it. It's just way too expensive, too daunting.

[Kayradis]

Bitching is fine.
Finding a solution is better.

[Higgs]

I am only human :)