[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

[Dice_Box]

Guess I am waiting for a reprint to get my foils for Lands.

[Quasim0ff]

Guess I am waiting for a reprint to get my foils for Lands.

Chances are you won't get your (foil) FS Groves cheaper than now, even with a reprint, anyhow..

[Dice_Box]

Chances are you won't get your (foil) FS Groves cheaper than now, even with a reprint, anyhow..
Checked the price, as much as I would love to grab 4 now I have bills to pay. Pitty. I might just have to move into trading out Duals to finish my baby.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

It would have to be a standard reprint to tank the price and a modern masters or expedition-style reprint seems much more likely since it's an oddball land that's 1/5th of an unprinted cycle that wotc probably wouldn't want as a part of standard because of so many life changes. It would be really weird for it to just show up on it's own like it did the first time.

[Dice_Box]

Yea. That's sounds likely and painful. I found one for a price I can take now and bought it. The other three will have to wait price jump or not. I guess I don't get permission to bitch though, I own the card already and can play it.

Fuck this is an expensive hobby we all share. Cardboard crack indeed.

[iamajellydonut]

Checked the price, as much as I would love to grab 4 now I have bills to pay. Pitty. I might just have to move into trading out Duals to finish my baby.

dice takes a baby and glues four foil Grove of the Burnwillows to its face. "My baby is complete."

[Ace/Homebrew]

dice takes a baby and glues four foil Grove of the Burnwillows to its face. "My baby is complete."
Pics or GTFO

[phonics]

Aside from the allied fetches, have they done any reprints that have tanked the price of the card? I can only think of Thoughseize.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Shocklands are the other big example I can think of recently.

[iamajellydonut]

Shocklands are the other big example I can think of recently.

Much to my shockland stockpile's disappointment.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Speaking of stupidly expensive foils, it looks as though R&D were all hit by a bus:

http://i.imgur.com/uIyqk6k.jpg

Any judges here going to get a nice $500+ present from WotC?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&multiverseid=1676
Ok, what am I missing, and why this dude costs 17 dollars? His ability is worse than mediocre, he must stink even in Magic 1933 and there must be buttload of better Bant generals unless he's the only one available for Tiny Leaders.

[Dice_Box]

Gods, Mana Drain. Glad I don't foil out vintage decks.

[jrsthethird]

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&multiverseid=1676
Ok, what am I missing, and why this dude costs 17 dollars? His ability is worse than mediocre, he must stink even in Magic 1933 and there must be buttload of better Bant generals unless he's the only one available for Tiny Leaders.

Random buyout is random. Who cares?

I learned my lesson after spending all my ebay bucks on Dan Bock's Storm Worlds. You need 14 of 'em? Get at me.

[Megadeus]

Modern. Your source for $50 Inquisition of Kozilek

[Mr.C]

Modern. Your source for $50 Inquisition of Kozilek

Remember when Wizards cared about availability and pricing?


Some cards exist at power levels that are on the brink of acceptability for even Vintage, which makes them dominant in “Type 1.5.” Worldgorger Dragon, Bazaar of Baghdad, Mishra's Workshop, Mana Drain, and Illusionary Mask all fit into this category. Note, too, that the power level of many of these cards, combined with their scarcity, presented a major barrier to entry to the format for many players.

Pepperidge farm remembers...

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Random buyout is random. Who cares?

I was just asking.
However I randomly came to a possible answer. A dude told me that there's a TV series called Vikings (something akin to Game of Crowns that my wife watches) that sports a main character called Ragnar. A big phenomenon with millions viewers. Might be a force behind Ragnar's growing beard... oops, popularity.
Sadly, it's too late to print Esmeralda.

[guillemnicolau]

I was just asking.
However I randomly came to a possible answer. A dude told me that there's a TV series called Vikings (something akin to Game of Crowns that my wife watches) that sports a main character called Ragnar. A big phenomenon with millions viewers. Might be a force behind Ragnar's growing beard... oops, popularity.
Sadly, it's too late to print Esmeralda.

Yes, it must be that, a tv show is making people buy crap for +10 dollars.

[iamajellydonut]

I mean, it seems like a reasonable explanation.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Yes, it must be that, a tv show is making people buy crap for +10 dollars.

EDH horde and fantasy fans intersection [insert Vorthos text here]
I mean, is there any other reason why Ragner costs the same as REAL cards?

[mini1337s]

EDH horde and fantasy fans intersection [insert Vorthos text here]
I mean, is there any other reason why Ragner costs the same as REAL cards?
The actual reason it spiked was due to Tiny Leaders. It is one of 3 options to play to Bant. Angus Mackenzie was already expensive and Jenara was accessible.
Now it's $30 because of price memory. It's not a $30 card.

[Barook]

I hope there's a special place in hell for speculators:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Fifth+Dawn/Auriok+Champion#paper

Edit: Holy shit, I just realized that I have two boxes of FTV: Realms lying around. I completely forgot about them.

http://www.mtgstocks.com/sets/79

I should prolly sell now.

[Dice_Box]

Never saw that coming. Fuck I am getting really close to cashing out of all but Lands, Shops and Grixis and walking away from this bullshit.

Also got linked to this today, a depressing read.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/how-wizards-manages-its-savings-account

[Barook]

I assume the buyout happened because BG tokens went 9-0 on the first day of the SCG Open - on camera.

But given all those random price spikes now, I wonder when the whole thing comes down. This isn't healthy at all.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Never saw that coming. Fuck I am getting really close to cashing out of all but Lands, Shops and Grixis and walking away from this bullshit.

Also got linked to this today, a depressing read.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/how-wizards-manages-its-savings-account

That's a brilliant article, much thanks for that.

[apple713]

I assume the buyout happened because BG tokens went 9-0 on the first day of the SCG Open - on camera.

But given all those random price spikes now, I wonder when the whole thing comes down. This isn't healthy at all.

I will probably be cashing out over the next year. I need the money and i feel like the house of cards is likely gonna crash soon. Nothing has ever increased forever. They amount of money i have in the game is a scary amount.

[Quasim0ff]

I cashed out about 6-12 months ago. Current-time me hates Past-me, thinking it was a bubble. Jesus christ, (modern) magic prizes are retarded.

[phonics]

Really nothing you can do here but hope WOTC's plan to milk their consumers for as much money as possible blows up in their face. Just shows how little they care for everyone based on things like the Judge bannings, discontinuing things like player rewards, watering down prerelease promos, magic online, ect.

[Mr Miagi]

So to whom can I sell my Auriok champions (ex-nm) for 50-70$? Seriously, there is no buyer for this price.

Or is there? :eyebrow:

[big_ticket]

So to whom can I sell my Auriok champions (ex-nm) for 50-70$? Seriously, there is no buyer for this price.

Or is there? :eyebrow:

even i was wondering what a spike?modern or legacy use??

[Dice_Box]

So to whom can I sell my Auriok champions (ex-nm) for 50-70$? Seriously, there is no buyer for this price.

Or is there? :eyebrow:
Sell them to me. I definitely want to be on the tail end of a trend for a deck I will never play.

Try Ebay. Someone will snap them up and then never use them.

[Barook]

So to whom can I sell my Auriok champions (ex-nm) for 50-70$? Seriously, there is no buyer for this price.

Or is there? :eyebrow:
Prices are already crashing down again. (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Fifth+Dawn/Auriok+Champion#paper)

[mini1337s]

Never saw that coming. Fuck I am getting really close to cashing out [FIXING THIS FOR YOU] and walking away from this bullshit.
I actually moved tons of cross-over modern stuff for 94 set stuff. No rugrats.

[sdematt]

I actually moved tons of cross-over modern stuff for 94 set stuff. No rugrats.

I agree. I have kept the stuff I'm definitely consistently playing with, but I shipped the rest, spent a month 5-star hotel-ing in Europe and bought a Porsche. If you tell me that's not fucked up, you must be dealing coke to do better than that.

[Lemnear]

I agree. I have kept the stuff I'm definitely consistently playing with, but I shipped the rest, spent a month 5-star hotel-ing in Europe and bought a Porsche. If you tell me that's not fucked up, you must be dealing coke to do better than that.

Signatured!

[Dice_Box]

My wife did up my collection and cashed it. With the exchange rate as it is I have a down payment on a house. That's really hard to turn down. The worst part is that I poured my money into Vampire the Masquerade in my downtime from Legacy. My book collection is worth 10 grand easy. If I had of piled that into Magic I would own a home. It's scary.

[Quasim0ff]

Also, when I cashed it, it pretty much paid for the cash I had to present to buy my apartment in Copenhagen (about 40k$).

Shit's insane.

[Admiral_Arzar]

even i was wondering what a spike?modern or legacy use??

I'm assuming this is due to either a tokens deck doing well or just low supply. I bought a set of foreign Auriok Champions last year in order to actually play them (Soul Sisters in Modern is fun albeit not particularly good) and spent 25-30 each. The card has been high for a long time due to fringe Modern play, probably casual demand, and never actually seeing a reprint (not even a small one).

[H]

I'm assuming this is due to either a tokens deck doing well or just low supply. I bought a set of foreign Auriok Champions last year in order to actually play them (Soul Sisters in Modern is fun albeit not particularly good) and spent 25-30 each. The card has been high for a long time due to fringe Modern play, probably casual demand, and never actually seeing a reprint (not even a small one).

Both. I believe that Fifth Dawn was an under-opened set, even for the times, due to people being pretty fed up with Affinity. I hadn't gotten back in at that time though to be sure. Also, a BW Tokens deck was 10 or 11 and 0 at the Modern Open over the weekend and finished 4th. Wasn't hard to craft the buyout.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Both. I believe that Fifth Dawn was an under-opened set, even for the times, due to people being pretty fed up with Affinity. I hadn't gotten back in at that time though to be sure. Also, a BW Tokens deck was 10 or 11 and 0 at the Modern Open over the weekend and finished 4th. Wasn't hard to craft the buyout.

Even pre-buyout it was pretty hard to find. It was next to impossible to find Japanese ones (took me months to complete the set). But yeah, sounds right. As for Fifth Dawn, not sure about numbers. However the set was quite a bit more of a "fun" (less powerful) set compared to the previous 2. With the exception of Cranial Plating there wasn't much there for standard (of course cards like EE and Crucible had unrealized potential at the time).

[H]

Even pre-buyout it was pretty hard to find. It was next to impossible to find Japanese ones (took me months to complete the set). But yeah, sounds right. As for Fifth Dawn, not sure about numbers. However the set was quite a bit more of a "fun" (less powerful) set compared to the previous 2. With the exception of Cranial Plating there wasn't much there for standard (of course cards like EE and Crucible had unrealized potential at the time).

I thought I had read that somewhere, but I'm old and so it fully possible that I made it up completely. But like you said, supply seemed pretty low on Fifth Dawn in the first place (for whatever reason).

I'm sitting on a lot of cards I never play, but I'm not selling out. I've got 5 kids right now and one more on the way, no doubt at least one will pick the game up. If not, they'll probably have a decent inheritance, I'm still buying FBB duals and more foils.

[keys]

Never saw that coming. Fuck I am getting really close to cashing out of all but Lands, Shops and Grixis and walking away from this bullshit.

Also got linked to this today, a depressing read.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/how-wizards-manages-its-savings-account

Wait... so how many decks do you have, and yet you're depressed? :eyebrow:

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I thought I had read that somewhere, but I'm old and so it fully possible that I made it up completely. But like you said, supply seemed pretty low on Fifth Dawn in the first place (for whatever reason).

I'm sitting on a lot of cards I never play, but I'm not selling out. I've got 5 kids right now and one more on the way, no doubt at least one will pick the game up. If not, they'll probably have a decent inheritance, I'm still buying FBB duals and more foils.

If you need more cards for more of your children, PM me... :laugh:
Seriously though, you must be pretty courageous and conscientious if you're taking care of so many children!

[H]

If you need more cards for more of your children, PM me... :laugh:
Seriously though, you must be pretty courageous and conscientious if you're taking care of so many children!

If I win the 1.3 billion dollar Powerball lottery on Wednesday, I'll definitely send you a message!

I'm just a regular guy though, slightly addicted to buying cards... :laugh:

[Dice_Box]

Wait... so how many decks do you have, and yet you're depressed? :eyebrow:
In Legacy? Once you have the core you have almost everything.

Most of my money is in Terra Nova.

[Blakroc]

Grove shot up on TCG, looks like another buyout.

[Bosque]

Yeah, and I thought paying that much for Grove was dumb a couple of weeks ago. Looks like I won't get to add 4c Loam to my deck arsenal anytime soon after all.

[phonics]

Yeah, and I thought paying that much for Grove was dumb a couple of weeks ago. Looks like I won't get to add 4c Loam to my deck arsenal anytime soon after all.

Honestly, buying any cards in the past 3-4 years would be paying too much unless you were using money gained from speculating on the market.

[big_ticket]

Grove shot up on TCG, looks like another buyout.

looks like I was late to purchase again sheez

[French Alters]

WTF is happening with the prices now? If speculators don't stop that, the prices will be so high that no new players will want to enter the game... I understand that it is a business, but it is a game before anything else, so please speculators, stop ruinning our dear game.

[Havrekjex]

I can`t believe Grove is $90. The mana base alone for Punishing Jund has broken the $1400 mark. The reason I bring that up is that I have everything for that deck but Wastelands, Groves and some of the duals plus some small stuff, so I`m tracking those, but now... It`s just too much. Every time I`m considering building a deck or contemplating picking up some card, and I decide on waiting, its price is a little further out of reach the next time I check. On one hand it always feels like the best part to pick something up is always last month, which is good incentive to get stuff asap, which gets people into the game... but on the other hand, you have to wonder when players start deciding that this shit is just too far out of hand and pass on that deck they wanted to build, and with that maybe eschew the whole format. When you think about it, it`s pretty insane that Legacy is still attracting new players at the current prices, but the format is growing healthily where I live. I guess people have purchasing power these days. Me, I feel like I`m mostly done getting new stuff. Buying things used to be a fun part of it, you get to scratch that shopping kick with lots of small purchases and you have fun finding the right edition, trading for stuff and so on. But now I`m just sick of it, I`m tired of tracking prices and being forced into the speculator subgame to not make horrible purchases, sales or trades. I`ll keep, tune and update the few competitive decks I have and love (one for Legacy, one plus a backup for Modern), and as long as I have something viable to play and I`m not sick of it, I`m not going to pour more money into this game. It makes me kind of sad, because I like trying out different decks, but when trying out something new can cost you four figures, it`s just too much. I think that these prices make people stick more with the same deck(s) over time. It`s been like that for Legacy for a long time, but I think we`ll be seeing that for Modern too as that format keeps getting more expensive by the month.

[Megadeus]

People are probably realizing that for the price of a tier 1 modern deck you can build basically any non blue, non lands deck in legacy. And your most expensive cards besides probably Goyf are reserve list cards.

[Havrekjex]

People are probably realizing that for the price of the most expensive tier 1 modern deck you can build most non blue, non lands deck in legacy. And your most expensive cards besides probably Goyf are reserve list cards.

Fixed in bold for correctness. Not trying to undermine your post, because I actually think that you do have a fair and valid point, but most competitive non-blue Legacy decks barring a few notable exceptions (burn, affinity, dredge) seem to start at around the $1700 and go up from there, while most competitive Modern decks are between $600 and $1200, the most expensive ones being Jund/Junk at $1700-1900.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Fixed in bold for correctness. Not trying to undermine your post, because I actually think that you do have a fair and valid point, but most competitive non-blue Legacy decks barring a few notable exceptions (burn, affinity, dredge) seem to start at around the $1700 and go up from there, while most competitive Modern decks are between $600 and $1200, the most expensive ones being Jund/Junk at $1700-1900.

This is pretty accurate. Modern is only actually super expensive if you play BGx or to a lesser extent the blue shell with Snapcasters. Most of the combo and aggro decks (at least the ones without Goyf) are much cheaper because shells in Modern don't overlap the way they do in Legacy.

[Megadeus]

All I read was that the average value of the last opens top 8 was something like $1350

[swoop]

Drafted mm2 last week. It was utter shit.

Tez, blue command, Eldrazi Temple, conf, kozilek (it's that right) and few other shits. Think it was 150$ worth all in all

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[apple713]

Drafted mm2 last week. It was utter shit.

Tez, blue command, Eldrazi Temple, conf, kozilek (it's that right) and few other shits. Think it was 150$ worth all in all

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

??? wtf are you trying to say? You said it was shit but that it was worth $150? surely the draft was less than $150... so you came out ahead?

[Zombiesquisher]

??? wtf are you trying to say? You said it was shit but that it was worth $150? surely the draft was less than $150... so you came out ahead?

It sounds like he's saying his draft pool was shit...

[swoop]

8*3 boosters and it was terrible. (I won it, but still, looking at price of boosters it was not satisfying.)

For the price we could have 3x drafts of recent editions

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[Quasim0ff]

In other words: Cracking pack is poor EV.

[Tylert]

In other words: Cracking pack is poor EV.

And anyway, i'm pretty sure that the ratio between the pack price and the pack value is in favor of MM2 if you compare it to BFZ :)

[swoop]

But, triple fun, exp, learning curve. And so on. Anyways it wasn't that much fun opening the black clique or that gr dragon :)

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[Mr Miagi]

I am genuinely starting to enjoy what they are doing to Modern with the price spikes. It's getting hilarious: https://www.magiccardmarket.eu/Products/Singles/Ninth+Edition/Mindslicer
Foils starting at 200€, you know, almost the price of foil goyf..
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Tylert]

200$ to empty the control player's hand and get a thragtusk on a pod activation!! IT'S WORTH THE VALUE!! (or not).

[Hopo]

This is obviously not based on anything solid. Card has seen exactly zero play.

[Tylert]

This is obviously not based on anything solid. Card has seen exactly zero play.

I guess in commander in Grindy BG decks where you empty your hand quickly because you're ramping with dorks or mana rocks and you can sac it easily, it is played :) --> that's why it's a 2$ card.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

In other news: Jayemdae Tome (UNL) is €75 card.
Stay with us to learn more. But now Rey with weather forecast.

[Ace/Homebrew]

In other news: Jayemdae Tome (UNL) is €75 card.
Stay with us to learn more. But now Rey with weather forecast.

Hah! I was checking out Tome today too. It's had two jumps to get to where it is now. It jumped to $50 (iirc) in 2014, then to it's current price when Oath was released.

[sjmcc13]

In other news: Jayemdae Tome (UNL) is €75 card.
Stay with us to learn more. But now Rey with weather forecast.
Just how popuar is 93/94? Only way I can rationalize that price when revised printings are like $0.5 and the card has multiple foil printings to draw any EDH interest.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I don't think it is popular enough to justify the price... I suspect Pauper has a larger player base.

[Blakroc]

Flagstones of Trokair just got bought out on TCG, price nearly tripled.

[Dice_Box]

This thread is depression in text form.

[Mr Miagi]

This thread is depression in text form.

Why? I find it the most entertaining thread on the forum, like I'm not even joking, really. I just sit back and laugh at the situation (whilst owning all the staples and to some degree looking at my value go up), becasue it's so bizzare it's already funny. :laugh:

[Mr.C]

This thread is depression in text form.

Why? Cash money is good.

[Dice_Box]

Because it makes my hobby look like an unregulated stock market.

[Mr.C]

Because it makes my hobby look like an unregulated stock market.

It's been like that since, oh, 2009 or so. No news. I mean, you don't really have to own the cards, you know. My Magic playing experience has gotten substantially better after selling most of my stuff. I don't really care about prices these days. If people want to pay thirty bucks for mindslicer or two hundred for ugly-ass expeditions, by all means, more power to them!

Nobody *needs* to own Magic cards. When I went from "needing" cards for a deck to "eh, I'll pick it up eventually", it was great.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Nobody *needs* to own Magic cards. When I went from "needing" cards for a deck to "eh, I'll pick it up eventually", it was great.
I guess you don't exactly play paper mtg, right?

[jrsthethird]

I can't play MTG every day (cashing out of MTGO via BFZ Foil Set redemption = money), but I can play MTG broker every day and it's fun as hell.

Doubling your money in a week's time on Boom // Bust is great. I wish I would've gotten on the Flagstones train but I missed it. It was right in front of my face.

[keys]

I have a lot of money invested in this game and I've seen significant gains as well but it's hard to not expect some kind of correction in the future. One major fuck up from WotC could erode confidence in the secondary market and send prices plummeting. That's a lot of responsibility in the hands of one company.

[MGB]

I can't play MTG every day (cashing out of MTGO via BFZ Foil Set redemption = money), but I can play MTG broker every day and it's fun as hell.

Doubling your money in a week's time on Boom // Bust is great. I wish I would've gotten on the Flagstones train but I missed it. It was right in front of my face.

Or getting in on the Eye of Ugin train? You could pick these up everywhere for $3-4 and foils for $8-9 prior to a month ago.

[jrsthethird]

I have a lot of money invested in this game and I've seen significant gains as well but it's hard to not expect some kind of correction in the future. One major fuck up from WotC could erode confidence in the secondary market and send prices plummeting. That's a lot of responsibility in the hands of one company.

But it's one responsibility they've been 100% steadfast on throughout the years.


Or getting in on the Eye of Ugin train? You could pick these up everywhere for $3-4 and foils for $8-9 prior to a month ago.

I missed that too. However, a few days ago I did find 3 copies from a collection that I stashed away and forgot about. They're gone already.

[Dice_Box]

I have a lot of money invested in this game and I've seen significant gains as well but it's hard to not expect some kind of correction in the future. One major fuck up from WotC could erode confidence in the secondary market and send prices plummeting. That's a lot of responsibility in the hands of one company.
Remember, it's their cash cow too. They are not going to fuck it if they can manage it.

[mini1337s]

http://i.imgur.com/0nZL337.png

Downgraded to Revised. The addict in me feels bad though.

[Dice_Box]

I will stick with Vintage as my overly stupid format of choice. 93/94 is a great idea, but fuck spending all that money on a format I will never play.

[jrsthethird]

So last night I did grab the last Flagstones that was on TCG for $14, lightly played. Just got a message from the seller and I logged in to see it. Completely expected him to balk on the sale, but instead he listed it as LP because it's signed and wanted to make sure that's ok. Totally fine.

#winning


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I just bought one for similar price just in case anything. IDK what, tbh, moreover I lack Horizon Canopy as I was lazy to purchase it after I sold the Jap-set ones. Now I can suck my very own dick, otoh I won't be playing EDH until my coffin and there's nothing I'd plan to use the cards for, I simply wanted to have them coz reasons, so maybe I can die w/o them.
Shame the Burnillows, too. Same story like above. In fact I could have used them in some deck designed to crush my local uninterested-wife-and-nursery-babies metagame, but screw that too...

[ScottW]

http://i.imgur.com/0nZL337.png

Downgraded to Revised. The addict in me feels bad though.

I sold my Beta last week for $50...

[keys]

More white bordered jank $50+?:laugh:

Vintage > 93/94. It's not even a contest.

[kingsey]

More white bordered jank $50+?:laugh:

Vintage > 93/94. It's not even a contest.


Did you play back when Shivan dragon was the ultimate creature?
If not you may not appreciate the format for its nostalgia.

[jamesh]

93/94 is the Tiny Leaders of 2016.

[Mr.C]

I guess you don't exactly play paper mtg, right?

Not really. I have proxy decks for vintage and legacy, and that's it. Some casual decks too, but the majority have printouts instead of cards. I pretty much quit buying cards for personal use in March 2010. Call me when they abolish the RL like they heavily implied they would...

For now, I enjoy the wheeling and dealing with no attachment whatsoever.

[Dice_Box]

Call me when they abolish the RL like they heavily implied they would...
Where did this happen?

[Mr.C]

Where did this happen?

Around when DD:PvC and FtV:Relics came out.

They flew Menedian and Ben B. out to Washington, where they both overwhelmingly supported abolishing it (especially Ben B.):

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/print.php?Article=18824

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/18888_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Visiting_Wizards_Reprints_and_the_Reserved_List.html

The mood at the time was that "yep, they're gonna can it". Forums, everywhere. They had just reprinted Mox Diamond and Negator. There was Wheel of Fortune, Morphling and Thawing Glaciers due to come out.

There's a huge-ass thread on MTGSalvation regarding it. I'm still bitter; Wizards effectively killed my favorite format then and there, and the way they did it was a slap in my face as a Legacy player. It's awesome that they decided to cater to whoever is hoarding Magic cards, but as a player I felt physically ill. Thanks for giving every signal that they were going to do something, then turning around and not doing it *and* not giving any explanation whatsoever.

Edit:

Oh yeah, there was this post on the Wizards forums before FtV:R came out:

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/phyrexia-coalition-pics/

Relevant part:

Some of you might be surprised to see Phyrexian Negator. It is true that while we’ve been able to make premium versions of cards on the reserved list, we’ve so far only used them for promotional purposes (Negator was a judge promo, for example). We’ve taken a look at our special products and feel that we can create a better game experience for you by taking this step. How cool would it have been if Sliver Queen was in the Premium Deck Series?? Don’t worry that we’ve lost our minds. When From the Vault: Relics comes out, you won’t see these cards: [Shows pics of Black Lotus and Moxes]

We’ve taken a look at our special products and feel that we can create a better game experience for you by taking this step. How cool would it have been if Sliver Queen was in the Premium Deck Series??

I'm sure a few of the older members here remember the shitshow that followed afterwards. I wonder what would have happened if twitter and reddit were as huge as they are now, when this went down...

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Not really. I have proxy decks for vintage and legacy, and that's it. Some casual decks too, but the majority have printouts instead of cards. I pretty much quit buying cards for personal use in March 2010. Call me when they abolish the RL like they heavily implied they would...

For now, I enjoy the wheeling and dealing with no attachment whatsoever.

Sorry, I wasn't precise. What I meant is that you don't play tournament Magic. I guess that it'll be a painful experience without the "needed" cards, but I see that you went even further ahead. I appreciate your decision and congratulate on your strength. However the next necessary step is... well, you know.

I played this game for fun. Seeing how it turns into business makes me sad. Of course, I could also start dicking around in this stock market, but you know, I'm not interested. If I'd wanted another job, I could have find one. Magic was a relaxation and a cheap hobby of mine, even back then when I joined the Eternal community. Also, every time I open such a thread like this, I'm traumatized over and over, and this spreads all across the board, community, lgs, experience.

I dislike this trend. Are there people who have amazing collections that make them happy? Are there people that became really rich due to MtG? Sure they are. More power to them. But I don't want to have anything in common with this.

[jrsthethird]

Hypothetical question:

What if Hasbro/WOTC does go against their word and break the Reserved List, for a limited (think original MMA) print run of Legacy/Eternal Masters, featuring, at mythic (or super mythic, like Expeditions or Power 9 in VMA):

Dual Lands
Tabernacle
Chains of Meph
Moat
Gaea's Cradle
Serra's Sanctum
Mox Diamond
other misc. Reserved value cards

What if they decide the monster sales and resurgence of Eternal formats is worth the risk of possible legal repercussions from a couple dozen collectors/hoarders, and it turns out the collectors don't lose money at all (see: Tarmogoyf reprinted twice)?

Clearly the vast majority of people here hate the Expedition treatment. If they printed foil dual lands that looked like that, would you even want them? Sure you'd use 'em if it's what you got, but the Revised version would hold up demand because it's decidedly more pimp/rare.

[Dice_Box]

Clearly the vast majority of people here hate the Expedition treatment. If they printed foil dual lands that looked like that, would you even want them? Sure you'd use 'em if it's what you got, but the Revised version would hold up demand because it's decidedly more pimp/rare.
The thing is, the price of the Expeditions has everything to do with artifical limited supply. It's Pimp factor notwithstanding the exclusivity of the cards, which is what you are actually paying for. You don't need to have the best card, but the one that other sucker can't afford. There are DnT players here who have foiled decks that plan to add these dam things to them. I mean these people have Eliot Wastes and they are getting these things. I think unless your talking crash the price printing, this idea will go nowhere. If they did crash the prices, only Alpha and Beta would hold money as people ditch white boarders for the new ones.

[Bosque]

Hypothetical question:
Clearly the vast majority of people here hate the Expedition treatment. If they printed foil dual lands that looked like that, would you even want them? Sure you'd use 'em if it's what you got, but the Revised version would hold up demand because it's decidedly more pimp/rare.

I hate foils. If there were enough printed to drop the prices of some current reserve staples that I'd like to get, I'd get the originals. If some new foil version was 1/2 the price, I'd get the new foil and grimace each time I draw one.

[JohnGalt]

Hypothetical question:

What if Hasbro/WOTC does go against their word and break the Reserved List, for a limited (think original MMA) print run of Legacy/Eternal Masters, featuring, at mythic (or super mythic, like Expeditions or Power 9 in VMA):

Dual Lands
Tabernacle
Chains of Meph
Moat
Gaea's Cradle
Serra's Sanctum
Mox Diamond
other misc. Reserved value cards

What if they decide the monster sales and resurgence of Eternal formats is worth the risk of possible legal repercussions from a couple dozen collectors/hoarders, and it turns out the collectors don't lose money at all (see: Tarmogoyf reprinted twice)?

Clearly the vast majority of people here hate the Expedition treatment. If they printed foil dual lands that looked like that, would you even want them? Sure you'd use 'em if it's what you got, but the Revised version would hold up demand because it's decidedly more pimp/rare.

Reserved List cards include a "premium" over non Reserved List ones. If they were reprinted, caeteris paribus, they wouldn't lose value just because supply grows, but also because they could be reprinted again in the future. When you buy a card included in the Reserved List you are assuming that it won't be reprinted again, so you pay a premium over a non Reserved List card. It's like some kind of insurance. When you buy a card not included in the list, you know it can be reprinted, and therefore the price could drop, so you are willing to pay less.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Reserved List cards include a "premium" over non Reserved List ones. If they were reprinted, caeteris paribus, they wouldn't lose value just because supply grows, but also because they could be reprinted again in the future. When you buy a card included in the Reserved List you are assuming that it won't be reprinted again, so you pay a premium over a non Reserved List card. It's like some kind of insurance. When you buy a card not included in the list, you know it can be reprinted, and therefore the price could drop, so you are willing to pay less.

That's not 100% true.
When you're buying USea you're buying it to play blue and black spells.
When you're buying Tarmogoyf, you're buying it to bash skulls and block dudes up to 4/5.
RL has very little to do with it.

Also, I'd love if they reprint Guay's PtE without foil. That'll be lovely.

[from Cairo]

Reserved List cards include a "premium" over non Reserved List ones. If they were reprinted, caeteris paribus, they wouldn't lose value just because supply grows, but also because they could be reprinted again in the future. When you buy a card included in the Reserved List you are assuming that it won't be reprinted again, so you pay a premium over a non Reserved List card. It's like some kind of insurance. When you buy a card not included in the list, you know it can be reprinted, and therefore the price could drop, so you are willing to pay less.
That's not 100% true.
When you're buying USea you're buying it to play blue and black spells.
When you're buying Tarmogoyf, you're buying it to bash skulls and block dudes up to 4/5.
RL has very little to do with it.

Also, I'd love if they reprint Guay's PtE without foil. That'll be lovely.

You might be buying Underground Sea so you have the option somewhere down the line to play Blue and Black spells, and it being a reserved list card [wont see reprint] thus you know that it will only become harder to obtain as time goes on.

You may put off buying Tarmogoyf to bash skulls and block dudes up to 4/5, because there have been 2 reprints and there's a possibility that it is printed a 4th time.

I don't have strong feelings about the reserved list existing or not. I've picked up my playsets like Intuition and Metalworker at times when they were at relative low points with the thought that they might be things I want to do and there's a finite copy of them being printed, but I'm also not going to rage quit if Eternal Masters has reserved list stuff in it. While it is bad for Wizard's integrity as a company and some people would quit, I think more would join thus it would probably benefit Eternal formats.

[big_ticket]

remember the days when shivan and serra angel/sengir own the play

[Bosque]

remember the days when shivan and serra angel/sengir own the play

Yep. Really just want to go back to that in so many ways. Serra Angel, Icy Manipulator and Meekstone. So much fun.

[Dice_Box]

That's not 100% true.
When you're buying USea you're buying it to play blue and black spells.
When you're buying Tarmogoyf, you're buying it to bash skulls and block dudes up to 4/5.
RL has very little to do with it.
To a point. There is something nice about thinking (not knowing, thinking) that your money is safe.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Yep, of course! My point was that I don't think that the idea of piggy bank cards is on anybody's mind when he's considering what kind of purchase he'll do to finish his deck. Most of the people I came across during my two decades of magical gatherings were chasing the cards because they needed them into decks, not because they needed to fill the gap in RL binder/collection.

The reason why you postpone Goyf and rather go for USea is because the price of the dual is steadily rising while the lhurgoyf's price is at plateau. (Moreover you may play USeas in more decks/archetypes than Goyf.) This is partly due to RL, of course, but also due to the fact that there will never be a better land if you want to tap for U or B, and the price is justified. (Remember the times when USea was just five-ten times more expensive than URiver? That was hilarious.) I guess that Goyf hit its ceiling and will rise only slowly; maybe the price will just cover the inflation. RL stuff, particularly the duals might also already hit the cap. There won't be infinite number of Goyf's reprints (although there will be non-zero number of them, that's for sure), but the force between cards' purchases is a "need" to play them, not a wish to collect them. And as such, RL doesn't have that much of an impact on people's decision.

But IDK, maybe I'm wrong. I made no research to support my claim and I'm less and less inclined to discuss things that I didn't study.

[Havrekjex]

^I think that sounds reasonable. I only buy what I play, but I`m not sure I would buy Underground Seas if it didn`t feel as safe as it does. I trust that I can sell them at approximately the same price at some point, and it certainly influenced the decision. As it is right now it feels more like putting money on hold, like a deposit, than an actual purchase.

They`re expensive because of the RL, but the price is also justifiable or at least easier to swallow because of the RL. It feeds on itself, kind of, and spirals slowly out of control as abolishing the RL will be more devastating for card owners as each year passes and prices go up.

[JohnGalt]

That's not 100% true.
When you're buying USea you're buying it to play blue and black spells.
When you're buying Tarmogoyf, you're buying it to bash skulls and block dudes up to 4/5.
RL has very little to do with it.

Also, I'd love if they reprint Guay's PtE without foil. That'll be lovely.

You may buy (or sell) them for any reason, but the market in aggregate adds a premium to Reserved List cards. Do you think prices of Reserved List cards would be the same if it wasn't assumed that they won't be reprinted?

[kirkusjones]

You may buy (or sell) them for any reason, but the market in aggregate adds a premium to Reserved List cards. Do you think prices of Reserved List cards would be the same if it wasn't assumed that they won't be reprinted?

Is there any other collectible out there with some sort of guarantee of worth like the reserved list for magic cards? Additionally, does Marvel reprinting Spiderman #1 devalue a Spiderman #1 from the 60s? Even if there were reprints, older versions would retain the majority of their value based on the fact that they are old. Alpha and beta duals most certainly would stay the same, if not increase due to increased demand by new generations of legacy players looking to pimp their decks (well, maybe not with alpha duals).

The prevailing attitude that cards are an investment is detrimental to the game as a whole. I'm not immune to it. I talked myself out of picking up playsets of some of the new Eldrazi this weekend because I knew I would just sit on them to trade later in the event that they spike. Legacy should be afforadable to a wider playerbase, but that doesn't mean it needs to be cheap.

[JohnGalt]

Is there any other collectible out there with some sort of guarantee of worth like the reserved list for magic cards? Additionally, does Marvel reprinting Spiderman #1 devalue a Spiderman #1 from the 60s? Even if there were reprints, older versions would retain the majority of their value based on the fact that they are old. Alpha and beta duals most certainly would stay the same, if not increase due to increased demand by new generations of legacy players looking to pimp their decks (well, maybe not with alpha duals).

I'm not saying that Alpha versions would drop if reprints were made (considering they were easy to differentiate), but that part of the value of any card comes from the "insurance premium" of not being reprinted. In the case of Alpha cards that premium doesn't come from the promise of not being reprinted in some way, but from the assumption that new identical Alpha cards won't be printed. There are many Alpha cards that aren't in the Reserved List and are very expensive, and a big part of that price comes the assumption that no new Alpha sheets will be printed. Alpha Birds of Paradise or Wrath of God are expensive not because new Birds of Paradise or Wraths of God can't be reprinted, but because no Alpha ones will be created.

In the case of non pimp versions, like Revised dual lands, the premium comes from assuming that no kind of reprint will happen, not just identical Revised new cards.

[kirkusjones]

I should have been clearer with what I meant, I reread my post and it's a little garbled, especially with the reference to alpha and beta. What I was trying to say is that it seems like older versions would continue to demand a premium based on nostalgia. Most of the original Ravnica shocks are more expensive than their Return block counterparts. Same with the Onslaught and Khans' fetches. I'm willing to bet some of the guys over in the pimp thread would still run revised duals over reprints should that ever happen, although that would be slumming it quite a bit for the pimp thread. Look at the attitude towards the expeditions from some of the older players.

My opinion on the matter applies mostly to the duals, because they are the things on the reserved list in highest demand. Mythic or limited reprints of stuff like Chains of Mephistopheles and Nether Void probably wouldn't crash their legends counterpart prices for the same reason alpha and beta duals would see little effect from reprints as well. I mean, who would want some lame computer art demon when you can have the glory that is the pepperoni nippled abomination from Legends?

[JohnGalt]

I should have been clearer with what I meant, I reread my post and it's a little garbled, especially with the reference to alpha and beta. What I was trying to say is that it seems like older versions would continue to demand a premium based on nostalgia. Most of the original Ravnica shocks are more expensive than their Return block counterparts. Same with the Onslaught and Khans' fetches. I'm willing to bet some of the guys over in the pimp thread would still run revised duals over reprints should that ever happen, although that would be slumming it quite a bit for the pimp thread. Look at the attitude towards the expeditions from some of the older players.

My opinion on the matter applies mostly to the duals, because they are the things on the reserved list in highest demand. Mythic or limited reprints of stuff like Chains of Mephistopheles and Nether Void probably wouldn't crash their legends counterpart prices for the same reason alpha and beta duals would see little effect from reprints as well. I mean, who would want some lame computer art demon when you can have the glory that is the pepperoni nippled abomination from Legends?

I agree. I have a bit of money on old cards (more than a complete Alpha set, many P9 pieces, A/B duals, etc.) and I'm in favor of abolishing the Reserved List, as I think it would make my cards more valuable, and maybe I could play again without having to travel far, but unfortunately it probably won't happen.

[swoop]

Tendo ice bridge 17$ what the hell

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[iamajellydonut]

Tendo ice bridge 17$ what the hell

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

Guessing Eldrazi. Because that's what I was gonna use it for before I cut down to two colors and started using painlands instead.

[Bosque]

Ancestral Vision, Past in Flames and Caverns of Despair (wtf seriously) buyouts.

This crap is getting old. Cards rising in price is one thing, asshole speculators doing buyouts to manipulate the market every single week is not making this more fun.

[phonics]

Ancestral Vision, Past in Flames and Caverns of Despair (wtf seriously) buyouts.

This crap is getting old. Cards rising in price is one thing, asshole speculators doing buyouts to manipulate the market every single week is not making this more fun.

Getting old? It hasn't even started yet!

[jrsthethird]

Caverns of Despair was slightly increasing upward for a while. There's no way anyone in their right mind is paying over $30 for that card. I doubt people will even buy them for 20. Fun fact: I finally gave up and buylisted 10 Storm Worlds to CardKingdom for $13/9 apiece (NM/LP), and someone finally bought the MP playset I had on ebay for $55 (after I gradually reduced the price from $100 week after week). It will never be a $5 card anymore, but it won't be a $20 card either. Same thing here with Caverns.

The problem here is that some people list extremely high on TCG on purpose; so that the Med price is weighted upwards and their cards carry more value. This is an issue that TCG needs to deal with when using their pricing algorithm; even including a simple standard deviation would be a tool that would help players gauge the accurate market value of a card. The fact that some idiot might actually buy their $100 Caverns or $100 foil Ancient Grudge is just gravy.

Ancestral Vision was moving up slowly since Aaron tweeted that they were tossing around the idea of unbanning it, which seems to me more likely than not; e.g., primary blue deck banned, and if B/x Eldrazi makes a good showing, Processors are a natural counter to Suspend spells. These are both speculative increases, but what's the difference between players buying more copies of a card they intend to sell and dealers increasing their buylist prices on cards they have high confidence in? It's really just the same thing.

This is a more natural phenomenon; increased demand for a card causes the price to go up due to the scarce supply. These prices are more likely to hold. It's happening a lot more frequently due to the wild open Modern format, but after next weekend when the Pro Tour is set in stone and a more steady metagame develops, this won't be nearly as common an issue. If Wizards keeps making January bans to shake up Modern before the Pro Tour, expect the beginning of every year to have wild price jumps.

If you don't stay educated about the market, you're going to miss out on getting cards when they're cheap vs. after they've spiked. The liquidity of MTG cards means that even if you buy something you don't need (on the chance you might need it in the future), you can get rid of it easily. Even if you are opposed to speculating (or as I like to call it, "armchair dealing"), you hedge yourself and your own interests (and pocket) against the tendencies of the market.

[mini1337s]

The problem here is that some people list extremely high on TCG on purpose; so that the Med price is weighted upwards and their cards carry more value. This is an issue that TCG needs to deal with when using their pricing algorithm; even including a simple standard deviation would be a tool that would help players gauge the accurate market value of a card. The fact that some idiot might actually buy their $100 Caverns or $100 foil Ancient Grudge is just gravy.


If you don't stay educated about the market, you're going to miss out on getting cards when they're cheap vs. after they've spiked. The liquidity of MTG cards means that even if you buy something you don't need (on the chance you might need it in the future), you can get rid of it easily. Even if you are opposed to speculating (or as I like to call it, "armchair dealing"), you hedge yourself and your own interests (and pocket) against the tendencies of the market.

People really need to understand both of these. It's so easy to manipulate the "supposed" market pricing and the naive get gouged. More importantly, people don't pay attention and then get a case of the "feel" bads when they miss out (I've been there many times). The only way to protect yourself is to either purchase a playset of everything and never move it or to keep up with trends and have the confidence to buy a card before it becomes a spec.

[Kage]

It's fucking depressing what goes on with this game nowadays. MaRo makes a really vague comment on something on twitter, and bam, 2 hours later 3-5 cards just got 5 times more expensive than a moment ago. Even modern, which was supposed to be an accessible eternal format has now an at least 600-800$ entry provided you want to play something competitive on a more than FNM level.

I was checking out some EDH stuff the other day and this stuff is mindboggling:

Cursecatcher is apparently a 15$ card
Aether Vial is 40-50 bucks
Relic of Progenitus is a 5 dollar common
Not counting some absolute shit like Tybalt, barely any planeswalker is under 10$
Peregrine Drake is 4 dollars
Scalding Tarn is 90 bucks
Phyrexian Altar is 25$

And the list goes on and on. Cross-format staples are starting at 40 dollars basically. I long for the times when you had deck like Psychatog and UG madness and the most expensive part of those decks were the playset of painlands at around 25-35 bucks. Nowadays it's 200-250 for Jace VP alone.

[mini1337s]

It's fucking depressing what goes on with this game nowadays. MaRo makes a really vague comment on something on twitter, and bam, 2 hours later 3-5 cards just got 5 times more expensive than a moment ago. Even modern, which was supposed to be an accessible eternal format has now an at least 600-800$ entry provided you want to play something competitive on a more than FNM level.

I was checking out some EDH stuff the other day and this stuff is mindboggling:

Cursecatcher is apparently a 15$ card
Aether Vial is 40-50 bucks
Relic of Progenitus is a 5 dollar common
Not counting some absolute shit like Tybalt, barely any planeswalker is under 10$
Peregrine Drake is 4 dollars
Scalding Tarn is 90 bucks
Phyrexian Altar is 25$

And the list goes on and on. Cross-format staples are starting at 40 dollars basically. I long for the times when you had deck like Psychatog and UG madness and the most expensive part of those decks were the playset of painlands at around 25-35 bucks. Nowadays it's 200-250 for Jace VP alone.
Sell your cards, use the money to buy liquor, and drink until you forget.

[bruizar]

Just buy foils of every playable and semi playable card upon new set release. Buy extras to trade in for old stuff. I bought Jace, Vryn's Prodigy at $8 (and got laughed at on this forum and salvation). Now, people are crying they missed out :).

I'd buy at least Thought-Knot Seer and foil Ulamog/Kozilek from the current set. Ulamog / Kozilek will be $100, and Thought-Knot Seer will be similar to Vendilion Clique. Warping Wails will also be very expensive in a few years. This set has a lot of good cards and will continue to provide speculation fuel for the next several years

[jrsthethird]

It's fucking depressing what goes on with this game nowadays. MaRo makes a really vague comment on something on twitter, and bam, 2 hours later 3-5 cards just got 5 times more expensive than a moment ago. Even modern, which was supposed to be an accessible eternal format has now an at least 600-800$ entry provided you want to play something competitive on a more than FNM level.

I was checking out some EDH stuff the other day and this stuff is mindboggling:

Cursecatcher is apparently a 15$ card

It's been over $10 for two years. Compare the card's graph to that of FOW: http://www.mtgstocks.com/cards/2654 and http://www.mtgstocks.com/cards/10551. This is a perfectly natural curve shape for an uncommon with only one printing.


Aether Vial is 40-50 bucks

This is a victim of "Snapcaster syndrome"; high demand card is suppressed until an upcoming reprint set (MM2), and once spoiled the card is not reprinted, so the price spikes as a result. Simply put; they can't reprint all the Modern cards every time, so the ones that get reprinted go down but the ones that are reprinted go up.


Relic of Progenitus is a 5 dollar common

This is a bit of a sharp spike, but it's due to it being a 4-of in a hot new Modern deck.


Not counting some absolute shit like Tybalt, barely any planeswalker is under 10$[/quotes]

Planeswalkers are so cool at the kitchen table. I've gotten "wows" at my foil DD Tybalt in my binder at prereleases. Not surprising.

[quote]Peregrine Drake is 4 dollars

It's long known that "free spells" are overpowered. A 3-mana reusable blink effect was printed, so any permanent that untaps more than that is an infinite mana two card combo.


Scalding Tarn is 90 bucks

Volcanic Island is 260. Good lands are good.


Phyrexian Altar is 25$[quote]

This one I'm not sure what the catalyst is, other than the generic explanation of low-supply high-demand casual card.

[quote]And the list goes on and on. Cross-format staples are starting at 40 dollars basically. I long for the times when you had deck like Psychatog and UG madness and the most expensive part of those decks were the playset of painlands at around 25-35 bucks. Nowadays it's 200-250 for Jace VP alone.

Yes, but at that time there weren't as many people playing the game. More players = more demand = higher prices.


Just buy foils of every playable and semi playable card upon new set release. Buy extras to trade in for old stuff. I bought Jace, Vryn's Prodigy at $8 (and got laughed at on this forum and salvation). Now, people are crying they missed out :).

I'd buy at least Thought-Knot Seer and foil Ulamog/Kozilek from the current set. Ulamog / Kozilek will be $100, and Thought-Knot Seer will be similar to Vendilion Clique. Warping Wails will also be very expensive in a few years. This set has a lot of good cards and will continue to provide speculation fuel for the next several years

You can put together a full foil set of BFZ on MTGO for around $300. The 25 full-art foil lands that come with it are about $125 already, and then you get foil Ulamog, Gideon, Truths, Kiora, Ob Nix, Drana, battle/man lands etc. Probably not worth sinking your actual cash in but if you have extra tix/cards you don't need on MTGO you can cash it out and sit on it.

[bruizar]

It's long known that "free spells" are overpowered. A 3-mana reusable blink effect was printed, so any permanent that untaps more than that is an infinite mana two card combo.

Counting down for rasputin dreamweaver to surge

[jrsthethird]

Counting down for rasputin dreamweaver to surge

Right?!

[bruizar]

Right?!

It hasn't caught on yet but I swear it's gonna be expensive once the speculators find out there's a new Eldrazi Displacer general in town. Legends, rare, and combos from the command zone with Eldrazi Displacer (foil Palinchron surged this week, peregrine drake too, but you have to assemble palinchron/drake and displacer whereas Rasputin is always available from the command zone and doesn't rely on lands)

[Barook]

I guess this speculation fueled by the EDH Prophet of Kruphix ban?

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Tenth+Edition/Seedborn+Muse#paper

[Whitefaces]

Ancestral Visions is spiking, apparently Maro tweeted that they're going to test it for unbanning in Modern? Anyone know about this?

[Dice_Box]

Yea, he said with Twin gone its no longer on the hard no list. Thing is he gave a very light chance to the card from what I saw. More that they would give it a look and not that it was a sure thing.

[Lemnear]

Yea, he said with Twin gone its no longer on the hard no list. Thing is he gave a very light chance to the card from what I saw. More that they would give it a look and not that it was a sure thing.

In other words: He drives up prices by firing sheer speculation. Isn't his and his turds job to keep the secondary market in check with reprints?

[Dice_Box]

In other words: He drives up prices by firing sheer speculation. Isn't his and his turds job to keep the secondary market in check with reprints?
He answered a question posted to him. Not going to blame him for that. Hey if this year's rumoured Eternal Masters is real, maybe we get that reprint.

[H]

In other words: He drives up prices by firing sheer speculation. Isn't his and his turds job to keep the secondary market in check with reprints?

While that would be nice, no, that isn't his job, or anyone else's.

His job is actually to make Hasbro's stock price rise, nothing more.

[btm10]

Ancestral Visions is spiking, apparently Maro tweeted that they're going to test it for unbanning in Modern? Anyone know about this?

Does anyone else find it odd that the Duel Decks: Anthology version is spiking higher than the set veraion?

[ESG]

Does anyone else find it odd that the Duel Decks: Anthology version is spiking higher than the set veraion?

I've seen that on other cards before. Aren't there fewer Duel Deck versions than Time Spiral ones? My only other guess would be set symbol.

[Whippoorwill]

Ancestral Visions is spiking, apparently Maro tweeted that they're going to test it for unbanning in Modern? Anyone know about this?

It was originally Aaron Forsythe that mentioned it was possible:

https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/688242056708243456

[bruizar]

Infect is gonna go up really fast really soon. Noble Hierarch and Inkmoth Nexus primarily

[Hopo]

Infect is gonna go up really fast really soon. Noble Hierarch and Inkmoth Nexus primarily

Modern infect cards have been under pressure since the banning of Twin. Inkmoth has been rising steadily since then but at least in Europe the prices haven't spiked yet. In the US spiking and proce increase happens a lot more and faster than in Europe (MKM). For example Grove of the Burnwillows (84$ vs. 50€) and Crucible of Worlds (72$ vs. 32€) demonstrate the difference nicely. Prices are recent Mtgstocks average and MKM average prices. Not conclusive but there's a visible gap.

[jrsthethird]

I've seen that on other cards before. Aren't there fewer Duel Deck versions than Time Spiral ones? My only other guess would be set symbol.

DD:Anthology version has the updated Oracle text, removing the "is blue" statement and replacing it with a color indicator. Text box looks less cluttered and cleaner, and with the holo they're harder to fake:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=393818&type=card

[ESG]

DD:Anthology version has the updated Oracle text, removing the "is blue" statement and replacing it with a color indicator. Text box looks less cluttered and cleaner, and with the holo they're harder to fake:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=393818&type=card

Looks awful to me, but to each his own.

[iamajellydonut]

Looks awful to me

Agreed. The text box may be "less cluttered", but I'll take an extra line of text over random blobs (color indicator/yugioh stamp) any day. Not to mention it's a reprint of a reprint.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ts/48.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/ddajvc/21.jpg

[from Cairo]

Seriously, don't know how there's even a question of which of those copies of Ancestral Vision look better. Time Spiral copies *should* be worth more than the duel deck versions.

[pjetr0]

Do you know the reason why chalice of the void spiked (foil and non-foil)?

Peter

[Philipp2293]

The modern Pro Tour. Team CFB is apparently playing a pretty busted Eldrazi Deck with Chalice (and Simian Spirit Guide) maindeck. Seems reasonable in a meta full of Burn and Infect.

[Lord Seth]

Agreed. The text box may be "less cluttered", but I'll take an extra line of text over random blobs (color indicator/yugioh stamp) any day. Not to mention it's a reprint of a reprint.I notice that the original one seems to have noticeably better coloring.

[Barook]

Various parts of the Eldrazi deck are probably going to skyrocket soon. PT Top 8 is most likely choke-full with Eldrazi decks, maybe even 7 out of 8 decks.

[Quasim0ff]

If there's more than 6 copies of Eldrazi in the top 8 (24+ copies of Eye of Ugin) I'm going to hope that they do ban the eye.

This format is fucking awful.

[mini1337s]

If there's more than 6 copies of Eldrazi in the top 8 (24+ copies of Eye of Ugin) I'm going to hope that they do ban the eye.

This format is fucking awful.
Mmm, just sold a Eye for $60 CAD on eBay. Sick profit on a previously $1.50 bulk mythic.
Moving all my modern cards. Just insane margins on everything now.

[Lord Seth]

If there's more than 6 copies of Eldrazi in the top 8 (24+ copies of Eye of Ugin) I'm going to hope that they do ban the eye.

This format is fucking awful.What do you know, when you decide to ban a deck that's a reasonable part of the metagame and strongly encourages interaction, you end up with... a lot of uninteractive decks.

It's almost like they should have seen this coming!

Though who knows, the Eldrazi decks are full of new cards, so maybe they're perfectly happy with these sorts of results.

[Barook]

Mmm, just sold a Eye for $60 CAD on eBay. Sick profit on a previously $1.50 bulk mythic.
Moving all my modern cards. Just insane margins on everything now.
I'll sell my MTGO Eldrazi cards within the next few days when the hype is at its top. A ban sooner or later seems inevitable. Modern can't handle SoL lands.

[CptHaddock]

Though who knows, the Eldrazi decks are full of new cards, so maybe they're perfectly happy with these sorts of results.

It's kind of sad that the modern pro tour debuted newer cards better than the previous standard pro tour. Then again basically adding 2 sol lands into a format that has never experienced them and banning out the deck that used to police the format is bound to cause some drastic changes. :rolleyes:

[Barook]

It's kind of sad that the modern pro tour debuted newer cards better than the previous standard pro tour. Then again basically adding 2 sol lands into a format that has never experienced them and banning out the deck that used to police the format is bound to cause some drastic changes. :rolleyes:
BW Eldrazi had a favorable match-up vs Twin already before the OGW upgrades.

I don't understand all the people making the Twin ban responsible for the Eldrazi domination. An Eldrazi variant would have given Twin a run for its money as well.

[MGB]

BW Eldrazi had a favorable match-up vs Twin already before the OGW upgrades.

I don't understand all the people making the Twin ban responsible for the Eldrazi domination. An Eldrazi variant would have given Twin a run for its money as well.

From my testing of Eldrazi pre-ban, Twin was almost a bye with a.) quick pressure b.) 4 dismember maindeck c.) disruption in the form of inquisition and thoughtseize.

Once Warping Wail got printed in the new set, Twin would have a hard time dealing with 4 Dismember and 4 Warping Wail (which probably would be MD in the Pro Tour lists if Twin was still in the format).

[Mr.C]

Eye of Ugin is like a goddamn Workshop in that deck. Geez.

[lordofthepit]

What a steaming dump of a Pro Tour. Glad I didn't watch.

When do they usually announce the summer set? Is it Sunday of the first PT of the calendar year?

[Lemnear]

Is anyone really considering the Eldrazi deck gets banhammered in Modern, if its causing massive sales of an in-print product?

[Barook]

I assume Sunday, since the finals have the highest viewer count. In the end, the PT is advertisement, after all.

Rumors about an Eternal Masters-style spring set persist tenaciously. I'd be on the tip of my toes, especially if you have Eternal MTGO cards, since prices can go nuclear into either direction if it comes true.

Still crossing fingers for a combined Wasteland + Port reprint. 90% of online D&T's cost being playsets of those two lands is fucking dumb.

Edit: Lemnear: Depends on how the GPs turn out. If it continues to dominate similiarly to the PT, I don't think a ban for SoI might be out of question, although unlikely.

[Lemnear]

I assume Sunday, since the finals have the highest viewer count. In the end, the PT is advertisement, after all.

Rumors about an Eternal Masters-style spring set persist tenaciously. I'd be on the tip of my toes, especially if you have Eternal MTGO cards, since prices can go nuclear into either direction if it comes true.

Still crossing fingers for a combined Wasteland + Port reprint. 90% of online D&T's cost being playsets of those two lands is fucking dumb.

Edit: Lemnear: Depends on how the GPs turn out. If it continues to dominate similiarly to the PT, I don't think a ban for SoI might be out of question, although unlikely.

I'm baffled in general that MTG didn't pick up the sales-/ban-cycle of YuGiOh year ago: New set introduces overpowered block-interaction which dominates the tournaments, then you ban the key component to neuter the whole deck concept, rinse and repeat

[Barook]

I'm baffled in general that MTG didn't pick up the sales-/ban-cycle of YuGiOh year ago: New set introduces overpowered block-interaction which dominates the tournaments, then you ban the key component to neuter the whole deck concept, rinse and repeat
WotC is aiming for longevity, hence the whole RL disaster. Hasbro has its quarterly/yearly earnings report tomorrow and I'm keen to see how MtG has done this year, considering Q2 & Q3 had profit losses.

[Lemnear]

WotC is aiming for longevity, hence the whole RL disaster. Hasbro has its quarterly/yearly earnings report tomorrow and I'm keen to see how MtG has done this year, considering Q2 & Q3 had profit losses.

Are those reports public? Would be interrested to see those

[Barook]

Are those reports public? Would be interrested to see those
Yes (http://investor.hasbro.com/)

Just don't expect exact numbers on everything, but lots of corporate speak, especially when it comes to sugarcoating the PoS that is MTGO. IIRC, MtG made ~250 million $ estimated revenue in 2014.

[Lemnear]

Yes (http://investor.hasbro.com/)

Just don't expect exact numbers on everything, but lots of corporate speak, especially when it comes to sugarcoating the PoS that is MTGO. IIRC, MtG made ~250 million $ estimated revenue in 2014.

Thank you very much. Well, I guess we can't blame WotC for dumbing down the game while doing nothing for marketing beyond explored terrain, if profits keep raising according to the derp-factor of their releases

[Lord Seth]

I'm baffled in general that MTG didn't pick up the sales-/ban-cycle of YuGiOh year ago: New set introduces overpowered block-interaction which dominates the tournaments, then you ban the key component to neuter the whole deck concept, rinse and repeatYu-Gi-Oh only does that because they don't have any rotating formats (e.g. Standard) to drive sales of new product. In fact, I think Yu-Gi-Oh is the only major TCG that doesn't have a major rotating format, so they have to force rotation by continually banning cards (which is far more annoying, because at least in Standard you know ahead of time what cards will be leaving the format).

[the Thin White Duke]

The modern Pro Tour. Team CFB is apparently playing a pretty busted Eldrazi Deck with Chalice (and Simian Spirit Guide) maindeck. Seems reasonable in a meta full of Burn and Infect.

I just sold a playset of Simian Spirit Guides at $13 each. I love modern. ( I "traded" them on Pucatrade)

[Barook]

I just sold a playset of Simian Spirit Guides at $13 each. I love modern. ( I "traded" them on Pucatrade)
I sold pretty much all the parts of my BW Eldrazi processor deck over the cause of the day. Made good profit, considering I picked up the core parts at the beginning of the December when the Mono B variant was 90$ total.

[bruizar]

I sold pretty much all the parts of my BW Eldrazi processor deck over the cause of the day. Made good profit, considering I picked up the core parts at the beginning of the December when the Mono B variant was 90$ total.

I bought all foil ur eldrazi core for 35 (minus reality smasher and TKS which I already had) including shipping the moment i saw the first day 1 feature match of Tao :-)

[iamajellydonut]

It's a good feel when you have twenty Eldrazi Obligators coming in at $0.25 apiece.

Continuing to spec the bejesus out of Endbringer.

[Barook]

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Ninth+Edition/Worship#paper

Thanks, Eldrazi!

[Lemnear]

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Ninth+Edition/Worship#paper

Thanks, Eldrazi!

+2600% in a week? Pardon, but stock market is more resonable than this

[Ace/Homebrew]

Thanks, Eldrazi!
What's the relationship here? They aren't being played in Eldrazi decks (according to TC Decks). Is this a card Eldrazi.dec can't beat?

Looks like it gets played as a 1-of in the sideboard of Modern Zoo. I don't get it. :eyebrow:

[keys]

+2600% in a week? Pardon, but stock market is more resonable than this

I'm guessing it's the 8th/9th foil version that spiked to $60, not the non-foil version. Non-foils will probably top out around $20-30. This has been reprinted 3 times, FYI...

It's always been fringe playable in modern with Hexproof creatures, but yeah, I think people are playing it as tech vs. eldrazi.

[Barook]

What's the relationship here? They aren't being played in Eldrazi decks (according to TC Decks). Is this a card Eldrazi.dec can't beat?

Looks like it gets played as a 1-of in the sideboard of Modern Zoo. I don't get it. :eyebrow:
People speculate on it as an anti-Eldrazi tech since they have difficulties to deal with it.

[Richard Cheese]

People speculate on it as an anti-Eldrazi tech since they have difficulties to deal with it.

Speaking of anti-Eldrazi tech, Painter tripled in price overnight. I don't know enough about Modern to know if that's really going to be worth the sideboard slots. It definitely slows down the Eldrazi decks, but it doesn't really change the fact that they still have a bunch of reasonably-costed big dudes, and Painter by itself is not exactly a win condition. Hopefully someone that understands the format more can let me know if this is just reactionary or if Painter is the real deal.

[square_two]

Speaking of anti-Eldrazi tech, Painter tripled in price overnight. I don't know enough about Modern to know if that's really going to be worth the sideboard slots. It definitely slows down the Eldrazi decks, but it doesn't really change the fact that they still have a bunch of reasonably-costed big dudes, and Painter by itself is not exactly a win condition. Hopefully someone that understands the format more can let me know if this is just reactionary or if Painter is the real deal.

I think people are just grasping at straws at this point.

Modern Merfolk to me seems well positioned with Spreading Seas as a main-deckable answer. Or perhaps Enchantress could have a hold - I've seen some lists that run Spreading Seas as cantrip + "fairness" + possible hate.

[sdematt]

Speaking of anti-Eldrazi tech, Painter tripled in price overnight. I don't know enough about Modern to know if that's really going to be worth the sideboard slots. It definitely slows down the Eldrazi decks, but it doesn't really change the fact that they still have a bunch of reasonably-costed big dudes, and Painter by itself is not exactly a win condition. Hopefully someone that understands the format more can let me know if this is just reactionary or if Painter is the real deal.

Obviously Painter is just one half of the equation. You just slow them down enough until you get Grindstone out, and then you...oh wait... ;)

[jrsthethird]

obviously painter is just one half of the equation. You just slow them down enough until you get sphinx's tutelage out, and then you...might win ;)

ftfy. ;)

[Whitefaces]

ftfy. ;)

Except that doesn't work ;)

[jrsthethird]

Except that doesn't work ;)

Hence the "might". 1 Brainstorm is 3 Tutelage triggers. Might get there.

Maybe you just need a Compost for good measure.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

I'm certain everyone has seen some of the absurd Modern price spikes after Pro Tour: Eldrazi, but what has really stuck out at me is that Thunder Spirit is now at $100 TCG Mid Price (presumably because of 93/94 coupled with Legends scarcity).

This game is crazy.

[keys]

I'm certain everyone has seen some of the absurd Modern price spikes after Pro Tour: Eldrazi, but what has really stuck out at me is that Thunder Spirit is now at $100 TCG Mid Price (presumably because of 93/94 coupled with Legends scarcity).

This game is crazy.

That's like Storm Crow level LOLz.

[AnvilOfCrom]

That's because it's an important card in the Mono W 93/94 Deck.

Still one of the cheaper decks of the "format" :wink:

[CutthroatCasual]

WE DID IT MTS!

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/announcing-eternal-masters-2016-02-15

[Spam]

WE DID IT MTS!

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/announcing-eternal-masters-2016-02-15
Finally something!!

[jrsthethird]

Obviously FOW would be Mythic, but Wasteland at Rare is interesting. We can't expect every high dollar reprint to just be Mythic.

[Dice_Box]

Obviously FOW would be Mythic, but Wasteland at Rare is interesting. We can't expect every high dollar reprint to just be Mythic.

Man this is so fucking sweet. I am going to get some Oaths and SnT for Vintage.

[Deviruchi]

So Duals, City of Traitors, Mox Diamonds are spiking already. Get your cards from reserved list sooner than later.

[Ryu]

So Duals, City of Traitors, Mox Diamonds are spiking already. Get your cards from reserved list sooner than later.

Only one Mox Diamond left on TCGPlayer lmao.

This just in, LEDs got bought out.

[sjmcc13]

So Duals, City of Traitors, Mox Diamonds are spiking already. Get your cards from reserved list sooner than later.

Right after I spent my entertainment budget for the month to. :(

Of well, lets see where the non-blue duals are this time next month.

[Bobmans]

Seriously, all reserved list cards getting bought out to. Sellers market gonna be the end of the game. There is no bloody limit.
Edit; Prices are gonna implode sooner or later. Eternal Masters might just be the trigger.

Sellers buying out all cards and that way control the supply and thus the prices. How far can it pushed until the demand drops? At some point no one wants or is able to to buy into cards or change decks. People i know are quitting the game for the ridicilous prices. Others selling out Modern. On FB i see more and more collections pass by. I even start to wonder te sellout my entire collection and re-buy one deck with cheap exc+ cards so i dont loose like 10k when it happens.

[Spam]

I just hope prices reach an absurd level. So I'll be able to pay my trip to Mars.

[Noctalor]

I just hope prices reach an absurd level. So I'll be able to pay my trip to Mars.

I like how there is no way to lose money in this system.

I could buy a freaking UB shockland for 3 grand and given enough time it will reach that mark, and i will make money out of it :laugh:

[apple713]

Seriously, all reserved list cards getting bought out to. Sellers market gonna be the end of the game. There is no bloody limit.
Edit; Prices are gonna implode sooner or later. Eternal Masters might just be the trigger.

Sellers buying out all cards and that way control the supply and thus the prices. How far can it pushed until the demand drops? At some point no one wants or is able to to buy into cards or change decks. People i know are quitting the game for the ridicilous prices. Others selling out Modern. On FB i see more and more collections pass by. I even start to wonder te sellout my entire collection and re-buy one deck with cheap exc+ cards so i dont loose like 10k when it happens.

But see, when the prices come crashing down everyone who wanted get into legacy will take the opportunity and prices will rise again. All this proves is that prices are cyclical.

[Lemnear]

In case you did not notice, as I write this there is a massive buyout happening of RL staples like Cradles, Mox Diamonds, LEDs and more. They basically vanished from eBay, TCG and other platforms

[Hopo]

In case you did not notice, as I write this there is a massive buyout happening of RL staples like Cradles, Mox Diamonds, LEDs and more. They basically vanished from eBay, TCG and other platforms

If you read the thread, this is literally yesterday's news.

[Kathal]

The only real way to stop this madness (especially for Legacy cards) is to get rid of the RL. Everything else won't help.

Greetings,
Kathal

PS: Man, I miss the times when I got my Undergrounds for 100€ a piece in great condition :(

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

PS: Man, I miss the times when I got my Undergrounds for 100€ a piece in great condition :(

I miss the times when I traded an Exalted Angel, the Standard hotness, for my two Underground Seas...and was getting the raw end of the deal.

[Havrekjex]

Jesus! I actually thought I`d might regret buying Underground Seas in December, I thought there was some possibility that they might be at their all time peak. I bit the bullet to finish my deck. Look at them now, Revised at $300. Same with Volcs. How high can they go?

[CutthroatCasual]

Take vendor prices with a grain of salt. On the High End Group, where the largest volume of duals exchange hands, the prices are consistently ~10% (or more) below TCG prices for comparable conditioned cards.

[KindGrind]

I feel like this is market adjustment, but agree this will have a terrible effect on the format.

You are all aware of the outrageous prices on some pretty narrow Modern staples. When you can trade Goblin Guide, Auriok Champion, Spellskite, Glimmervoid and Eye of Ugin for duals (to name a few), you know something's fucked up.

Either the prices on these cards are too high, or the prices of duals are too low. There are trades you're not supposed to be able to make, yet can make these days.

This feels like 18 months ago, when you could trade a set of Tarns for a Library of Alexandria to a store. Although the Tarns appreciated even further (which is insane), the price of Library has adjusted since then.

Problem here is greed. All the stuff that has disappeared from the Internet overnight wasn't bought out by players looking to get into the format, and to turn their terribad Modern staples into Duals, Leds and Cradles. The same people that already have all the cards just bought some more.

What will happen within the next few months will be interesting indeed, like "Serenity" interesting.

[ESG]

Jesus! I actually thought I`d might regret buying Underground Seas in December, I thought there was some possibility that they might be at their all time peak. I bit the bullet to finish my deck. Look at them now, Revised at $300. Same with Volcs. How high can they go?

What are you talking about? Underground Seas were ~$350 around the time of Khans. Up until recently, dual lands had been shedding value.

[sdematt]

^ this. I had the feel bads aince I accidentally bought an extra Beta Taiga, but I guess Ill probably come out okay.

[sadface]

Unlimited Winter Orb just jumped from $15 to $90. Revised, 4th Edition, and 5th Edition hasn't moved at all. Thanks, 93/94!

[useL]

Unlimited Winter Orb just jumped from $15 to $90. Revised, 4th Edition, and 5th Edition hasn't moved at all. Thanks, 93/94!

Strange, the format originates from Europe where the Winter Orb still is $15 and yet you in America are the ones that have the staggering prices issue. Greed, greed & greed.

[Spam]

Strange, the format originates from Europe where the Winter Orb still is $15 and yet you in America are the ones that have the staggering prices issue. Greed, greed & greed.
Meh, if you play 93/94 in Italy you're allowed to bring in italian legends and italian BB etc.
This because whe said F#%# you to those who wants only English legends. This allows more supply, keeping prices a bit lower.

[Havrekjex]

Strange, the format originates from Europe where the Winter Orb still is $15 and yet you in America are the ones that have the staggering prices issue. Greed, greed & greed.It still baffles me how we can see crazy spikes from buyouts, speculation and player expectations in all the American outlets and price tracking tools, and meanwhile, on MCM, crickets are singing. I think MCM not selling across the Atlantic might be a huge deal for us here in Europe, because I`m pretty sure the buyouts would hit there too if they did.

[rancOr_]

It still baffles me how we can see crazy spikes from buyouts, speculation and player expectations in all the American outlets and price tracking tools, and meanwhile, on MCM, crickets are singing. I think MCM not selling across the Atlantic might be a huge deal for us here in Europe, because I`m pretty sure the buyouts would hit there too if they did.

Yes exactly ! Although SCG has accounts on MKM too- so they could do something here if they want..

[Kathal]

Yes exactly ! Although SCG has accounts on MKM too- so they could do something here if they want..

They have and already bought some cards from me. However, they cannot ship them directly to the US (since this is forbidden) but send it to the MKM headquarters (Berlin) and they ship it to the US.

The account, which bought cards from me has 11856 buys, so they are rather active (and they might have more than 1 account too).

Edit says: here is the link to their account (or at least one of them): https://www.magickartenmarkt.de/Users/StarCityGames

Greetings,
Kathal

[mini1337s]

In terms of 93/94, in my experience, the Euro sellers (both on a large-scale retail and small, Facebook trader level) are just as bad as the North American ones.
While I sympathize that it feels bad to miss out and have to pay new prices on these cards, the reality is that there is there are very few (relative to modern Magic printings) available. I'm sure you've all see the numbers, but for posterity's sake:
https://i.imgur.com/hXXa6HY.png
(Full early MTG era print-run info: https://www.usc.edu/dept/Deckmasters/archive/mtg/printrun.txt )
Doing some "guestimates", it's probably fair to say that 20-30% the original print runs of ABU are gone forever whether destroyed or damaged to the point of being worthless, are sitting in a forgotten shoebox, or, in the vast minority, they are encapsulated and in someone's permanent collection (effectively gone forever). So, realistically, between ABU, there are probably 15000 copies of any given rare that are still around and very few are available for sale. So, simple supply and demand; low supply and a recent surge in demand. Also, there is specific demand for NM cards from that era, which are even fewer and farther between. I would wager that the ratio between played/unplayed cards of that era is probably close to 10:1.
Most of the people who were not attached have already moved cards, with some going into the hands of resellers, but the majority are going into the hands of players/collectors. The only way to shake new stock out onto the market is to incentivize people to sell their personal playstock by driving up the price. For example, Unlimited Jayemdae Tomes: In early January, a few buyers decided they really wanted Unlimited Jayemdae Tomes. A few auctions on eBay ended at $75+ for single Jayemdae Tomes, up from $3-5 the month previous. But rather than being an outlier, a more people continued to win auctions at this price. I personally downgraded to Revised at this price point, as there was enough monetary incentive to sell cards from my personal, "unsellable" collection. Another example of this is Arabian Nights Serendib Efreet, up from $30 to a consistent selling price of $125+. Once again, the higher prices are driven by NM cards, but this upward traction effects all conditions.
In the specific case of Winter Orb, don't despair; the only place I see $100 Winter Orbs is on Dan Bocks eBay, and if you check sold listings (the only pricing metric that matters) they are selling in the $20-25 USD range a piece (based on multiple auctions between Feb 1 - 9). If you only refer to active listings, I can make any card $1,000,000.
My advice to those feeling suckered is to simply not worry about the Swedish rules set. Go ahead, play with Revised, who gives a shit? If you are worried about the monetary cost, play with what you can afford; few people are going to be sticklers, and if they are, fuck them, there not worth playing with. Sure, maybe the people in Gothenburg have reason to complain, but anyone outside of Sweden should really not care. That said, if you want to follow the Swedish rule set, by all means do, but recognize that this is YOUR choice, and the fact of the matter is that multiple people in your position are the exact people that are driving up prices. Retailers would happily sell $10 UNL Winter Orbs if they sold 1 a month, but now hundreds if not thousands of people around the world are looking to actively scoop these up. Complaining about prices on cards that are rare and considered pimp is silly whether it’s Magic 94, Summer, or Jap/Rus/Kor foils. They are expensive because there aren’t a lot of them out there and a lot of people want them, end of story.

[ScottW]

Has anyone else seen that Channel Fireball has spiked the price on duals? N/NM Underground Sea is selling for 400.00. Starcity has on increased their price to 325.00. I wonder where these will settle.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

mini1337, I really like your post!

[Octopusman]

In terms of 93/94, in my experience, the Euro sellers (both on a large-scale retail and small, Facebook trader level) are just as bad as the North American ones.
While I sympathize that it feels bad to miss out and have to pay new prices on these cards, the reality is that there is there are very few (relative to modern Magic printings) available. I'm sure you've all see the numbers, but for posterity's sake:
https://i.imgur.com/hXXa6HY.png
(Full early MTG era print-run info: https://www.usc.edu/dept/Deckmasters/archive/mtg/printrun.txt )
Doing some "guestimates", it's probably fair to say that 20-30% the original print runs of ABU are gone forever whether destroyed or damaged to the point of being worthless, are sitting in a forgotten shoebox, or, in the vast minority, they are encapsulated and in someone's permanent collection (effectively gone forever). So, realistically, between ABU, there are probably 15000 copies of any given rare that are still around and very few are available for sale. So, simple supply and demand; low supply and a recent surge in demand. Also, there is specific demand for NM cards from that era, which are even fewer and farther between. I would wager that the ratio between played/unplayed cards of that era is probably close to 10:1.
Most of the people who were not attached have already moved cards, with some going into the hands of resellers, but the majority are going into the hands of players/collectors. The only way to shake new stock out onto the market is to incentivize people to sell their personal playstock by driving up the price. For example, Unlimited Jayemdae Tomes: In early January, a few buyers decided they really wanted Unlimited Jayemdae Tomes. A few auctions on eBay ended at $75+ for single Jayemdae Tomes, up from $3-5 the month previous. But rather than being an outlier, a more people continued to win auctions at this price. I personally downgraded to Revised at this price point, as there was enough monetary incentive to sell cards from my personal, "unsellable" collection. Another example of this is Arabian Nights Serendib Efreet, up from $30 to a consistent selling price of $125+. Once again, the higher prices are driven by NM cards, but this upward traction effects all conditions.
In the specific case of Winter Orb, don't despair; the only place I see $100 Winter Orbs is on Dan Bocks eBay, and if you check sold listings (the only pricing metric that matters) they are selling in the $20-25 USD range a piece (based on multiple auctions between Feb 1 - 9). If you only refer to active listings, I can make any card $1,000,000.
My advice to those feeling suckered is to simply not worry about the Swedish rules set. Go ahead, play with Revised, who gives a shit? If you are worried about the monetary cost, play with what you can afford; few people are going to be sticklers, and if they are, fuck them, there not worth playing with. Sure, maybe the people in Gothenburg have reason to complain, but anyone outside of Sweden should really not care. That said, if you want to follow the Swedish rule set, by all means do, but recognize that this is YOUR choice, and the fact of the matter is that multiple people in your position are the exact people that are driving up prices. Retailers would happily sell $10 UNL Winter Orbs if they sold 1 a month, but now hundreds if not thousands of people around the world are looking to actively scoop these up. Complaining about prices on cards that are rare and considered pimp is silly whether it’s Magic 94, Summer, or Jap/Rus/Kor foils. They are expensive because there aren’t a lot of them out there and a lot of people want them, end of story.

One of the most enjoyable posts I have read here in a while. Thank you.

[jimmythegreek]

What an exciting time in legacy's history.....I say sit back and enjoy.

[jamesh]

mini1337, I really like your post!

Yes good research.

[easysantiago]

Yes good research.

Big ups.

(keep this going)

[KindGrind]

What an exciting time in legacy's history.....I say sit back and enjoy.

Also very interesting will be the moment when spoiler season is over, and what is not reprinted goes through the roof for no reason.

[chemicalstylez]

In case you did not notice, as I write this there is a massive buyout happening of RL staples like Cradles, Mox Diamonds, LEDs and more. They basically vanished from eBay, TCG and other platforms

You know what else I noticed, kind of off the Legacy topic. Other older cards have seen massive buyouts as well. 2 months ago, you could pick up Relic Barriers for $0.50 each and there was over 300 for sale; now a handful at $5 each. Lots of old weird cards literally are drying up....Gaea's Avenger, Blood Lust, Time Elemental..... that's just a few i can think of off the top of my head. Where are they all going? Even cards in the Urza's block are getting hit with buyouts as well. Someone has been spending some serious dough to corner markets on some cards.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

You know what else I noticed, kind of off the Legacy topic. Other older cards have seen massive buyouts as well. 2 months ago, you could pick up Relic Barriers for $0.50 each and there was over 300 for sale; now a handful at $5 each. Lots of old weird cards literally are drying up....Gaea's Avenger, Blood Lust, Time Elemental..... that's just a few i can think of off the top of my head. Where are they all going? Even cards in the Urza's block are getting hit with buyouts as well. Someone has been spending some serious dough to corner markets on some cards.
That' strange. And unfortunate. Namely considering Blood Lust, which I wanted a set of for my RG All Common Old School. Well, won't happen, nvm.
Also fuck Wizards for their borders policy, it hurts my ocd.

[Megadeus]

City of traitors is at $175 as of the time I'm posting on TCG

[Mr.C]

You know what else I noticed, kind of off the Legacy topic. Other older cards have seen massive buyouts as well. 2 months ago, you could pick up Relic Barriers for $0.50 each and there was over 300 for sale; now a handful at $5 each. Lots of old weird cards literally are drying up....Gaea's Avenger, Blood Lust, Time Elemental..... that's just a few i can think of off the top of my head. Where are they all going? Even cards in the Urza's block are getting hit with buyouts as well. Someone has been spending some serious dough to corner markets on some cards.

Consistent 93/94 buyouts. I'm just hoping someone does Land Equilibrium (again) so I can dump the rest I have.

[hymnyou]

Where did the cards go? Buyouts, period. Tcg player needs to reconfigure their price algorithms. They are letting little shit head Twitter wanna be wall street fucks completely wreck havoc on a unregulated market. Fuck QuietSpeculation, Fuck Xemit, Fuck MTGprice guys, etc. Fuck all these buyout scumbags-bunch of bullshit. They buyout the card and reset a new overinflated price. Tcg records this and then the 'priceguides' respond off that.

[jrsthethird]

City of traitors is at $175 as of the time I'm posting on TCG

Fucking Eldrazi...


Where did the cards go? Buyouts, period. Tcg player needs to reconfigure their price algorithms. They are letting little shit head Twitter wanna be wall street fucks completely wreck havoc on a unregulated market. Fuck QuietSpeculation, Fuck Xemit, Fuck MTGprice guys, etc. Fuck all these buyout scumbags-bunch of bullshit. They buyout the card and reset a new overinflated price. Tcg records this and then the 'priceguides' respond off that.

First off, you need to recognize the difference between a natural spike and a forced buyout. Most of the 93/94 spikes feel forced. This is not a community that any of the #mtgfinance people actively participate in financially. They realize that the demand for the cards is just not there, and it's ridiculously hard to get someone to pay at those inflated prices. Too much risk.

The way true speculators handle it is that they buy a share of a card at a price that seems low, with a target selling point in mind. This is completely dependent on price range; i.e. someone who specs on a $50 card may buy a playset or two, but on a 50 cent card they may go deep with 30 or 40 copies. Are you really mad at someone who buys two playsets of a card like Jace, Vryn's Prodigy at $40 because they see it being played in every format as a Mythic rare in a set that isn't opened very much? Or are you mad at someone who sees value in Wasteland Strangler and buys 20 copies while it's under a buck? None of these people are resetting an overinflated price; they're just riding along the natural ebb and flow of prices.

Sure, making it known that supply is low does lead to a buyout, but it's not necessarily because of speculators. There are also people who may want to play the card eventually and fear of a spike makes them pull the trigger earlier than expected. That's what happened with dual lands; I don't think speculators jumped on them, because the margins aren't high enough to be worth the investment or risk. Also, consider the fact that people actually post the information so others can use it too. The guy setting Blood Lust at $30 isn't sitting around telling everyone that Blood Lust is primed to spike (because everyone knows he's 1. full of shit and 2. trying to play them); he's sitting in his basement jerking off to his pile of used bubble mailers and cardboard that's old enough to drink, wondering why no one wants to buy it because he failed economics class.

Speculators are fine with a double up (quit while you're ahead, etc.), and if they happen to have something like Blood Lust, Meditate, or whatever that just spiked, they will price it competitively lower than the buyout morons and drive the market down to a point where people are comfortable paying it (and hopefully making a sale). Again, probably not worth the risk of buying in.

tl;dr - I understand your anger, but it's directed at the wrong people.

[snorlaxcom]

City of traitors is at $175 as of the time I'm posting on TCG

Getting your test prints: priceless.

[MGB]

Wth.

I was majorly upset with myself when I had to buy my Cities for $50-$60 or so after they had spiked from $30 a few years back.

On another note - I hope you all bought your copies of Island of Wak-Wak! It's spiking too now!

[bruizar]

its a reaction. Modern Eldrazi players will want to port over to legacy after the ban and they need sol land for it.

[iamajellydonut]

You know what's amazing is that even though Eye already experienced a spike, its price has dropped since being confirmed as a 4/4 in 50% of the meta.

[Barook]

its a reaction. Modern Eldrazi players will want to port over to legacy after the ban and they need sol land for it.
I think EMA coming and City being a RL card is the real reason for the price spike.

[phonics]

Wth.

I was majorly upset with myself when I had to buy my Cities for $50-$60 or so after they had spiked from $30 a few years back.

On another note - I hope you all bought your copies of Island of Wak-Wak! It's spiking too now!

Yep, null rod too is up to 50$. I guess if anything I'm glad it is getting really out of control so WOTC might do something about it.

And eye is looking to get banned, eldrazi was over 50% of the day2 meta at louisville, ~65% top 32. Its almost comical.

[bruizar]

lol :-) I don't know about you guys but im not paying anywhere near 50 bucks for a null rod. The only format that card is really exceptional is vintage.

[Kathal]

Yep, null rod too is up to 50$. I guess if anything I'm glad it is getting really out of control so WOTC might do something about it.

And eye is looking to get banned, eldrazi was over 50% of the day2 meta at louisville, ~65% top 32. Its almost comical.

It wasn't that bad man, 47,4% day 2 metagame and 60,4% top 32. Yes, still bad, but not so horrendous :P

If you want a Null Rod replacement and you are in white, Stony Silence is an alternative.

Greetings,
Kathal

[iamajellydonut]

Narwhal sold out on SCG. Spike incoming.

[hymnyou]

First off, you need to recognize the difference between a natural spike and a forced buyout. Most of the 93/94 spikes feel forced. This is not a community that any of the #mtgfinance people actively participate in financially. They realize that the demand for the cards is just not there, and it's ridiculously hard to get someone to pay at those inflated prices. Too much risk.

I completely understand these differences. Fact is I named those people/sites for reasons based on the words spoken by those specific people or members of whichever shitbag mtgfinance community site I listed.


The way true speculators handle it is that they buy a share of a card at a price that seems low, with a target selling point in mind. This is completely dependent on price range; i.e. someone who specs on a $50 card may buy a playset or two, but on a 50 cent card they may go deep with 30 or 40 copies. Are you really mad at someone who buys two playsets of a card like Jace, Vryn's Prodigy at $40 because they see it being played in every format as a Mythic rare in a set that isn't opened very much? Or are you mad at someone who sees value in Wasteland Strangler and buys 20 copies while it's under a buck? None of these people are resetting an overinflated price; they're just riding along the natural ebb and flow of prices.

The way speculators are handling the market currently is buying out cards on tcg player, ebay and all the stores they can hunt on google-buy them out and jack the price on TCG player. TCG player reports the inflated price (by #mtgfinancefucks) and the price then is seen by the masses on sites like mtggoldfish. Buying a couple playsets is not a buyout, not sure what you're even getting at.


Sure, making it known that supply is low does lead to a buyout, but it's not necessarily because of speculators. There are also people who may want to play the card eventually and fear of a spike makes them pull the trigger earlier than expected. That's what happened with dual lands; I don't think speculators jumped on them, because the margins aren't high enough to be worth the investment or risk. Also, consider the fact that people actually post the information so others can use it too. The guy setting Blood Lust at $30 isn't sitting around telling everyone that Blood Lust is primed to spike (because everyone knows he's 1. full of shit and 2. trying to play them); he's sitting in his basement jerking off to his pile of used bubble mailers and cardboard that's old enough to drink, wondering why no one wants to buy it because he failed economics class.

They are inflating the price because they are depending/hoping price memory serves their investment.



Speculators are fine with a double up (quit while you're ahead, etc.), and if they happen to have something like Blood Lust, Meditate, or whatever that just spiked, they will price it competitively lower than the buyout morons and drive the market down to a point where people are comfortable paying it (and hopefully making a sale). Again, probably not worth the risk of buying in.

Problem is there are not a lot of these cards that are getting bought out by these fucks who dont even play the damn format. These sites pitch this theme that they are trying to get the game cheaper for players where realistically its just a bunch of wanna-be wall-street guys riding training wheels.

[nedleeds]

You had 19 years to buy a set of Null Rods. If you are crying about it now, fuck you.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

You had 19 years to buy a set of Null Rods. If you are crying about it now, fuck you.

But why would anyone buy it? It does nothing.

I'm here all week, folks.

[Bosque]

I have my playset, but I'm still struggling to find the right shell for them, they just don't seem to do anything.

[sdematt]

I have my playset, but I'm still struggling to find the right shell for them, they just don't seem to do anything.

If you're a deck that doesn't run Equipment, nor Top, you run this card in the side. It's a tank against Storm, Miracles, and Equipment.deck

So turns out, you can pay $50 USD for English Null Rod due to fake spike, or $45 CAD for Korean when you don't play into the hype. Get rekt.

[Quasim0ff]

If you're a deck that doesn't run Equipment, nor Top, you run this card in the side. It's a tank against Storm, Miracles, and Equipment.deck

So turns out, you can pay $50 USD for English Null Rod due to fake spike, or $45 CAD for Korean when you don't play into the hype. Get rekt.

30€ for a Null Rod is still insane, though.

Waiting for German ones to spike. (Selling german Null Rod, 30$ each)

[Richard Cheese]

I have my playset, but I'm still struggling to find the right shell for them, they just don't seem to do anything.

No - it does nothing.

igotthejoke.ra

[Bosque]

No - it does nothing.

igotthejoke.ra

;)

[Mr.C]

They are buying stuff out because it does actually move the market, in the majority of cases. My article is oddly relevant again:

http://mtgfinance.blogspot.com/2015/11/buyouts-and-price-manipulation-why-it.html

[MaximumC]

You had 19 years to buy a set of Null Rods. If you are crying about it now, fuck you.

Ah, yes, no one should ever complain about anything. Look, not everyone started playing in the 90s. (DISCLAIMER: I did. I am not negatively affected by any of these spikes.) Each time these price spikes explode, fewer and fewer players can get into the formats we like. Can you IMAGINE having to buy into Legacy as a new player today? Impossible for anyone with a reasonable budget.


They are buying stuff out because it does actually move the market, in the majority of cases. My article is oddly relevant again:

http://mtgfinance.blogspot.com/2015/11/buyouts-and-price-manipulation-why-it.html

Yep. What you're seeing the THE MACHINE in action. I believe there are probably hundreds of people now with access to algorithms that quickly let them dump cash into buying out older cards in limited supply. Once this happens, the card spikes to a stupid-insane price, but it never does quite go back down. It trends down to somewhere between just shy of the spike and double the old price, almost without fail. (P.S. One With Nothing may break this trend, lol).

Speculators will tell you this is because the old price was not "correct," and the spike was necessary to "balance" supply and demand. Of course, their definition of "correct" is "the maximum the market will bear." The libertarians will get all in my face for saying so, but there's really nothing sacrosanct or morally good about everyone figuring out the maximum price they can charge for an item. It's probably a market inevitability, but it's not (as nedeels seems to imply) immune to criticism.

[Mr.C]

All I know is that sooner or later, the market will implode. It always does.

[H]

I figure I'll ask here, because I don't really see a better thread (and it's kind of a waste to make a new one).

Where would be a good place to check the price of some "rarer" item, like foil Japanese cards from say, 7th or Apocalypse?

Specifically, I have a friend who is looking to trade some foil Japanese Mystic Snakes and so is looking for a reasonable valuation of them, but most places don't even have any for me to gauge the price.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found some on MCM, I should have just checked there first.

[phonics]

All I know is that sooner or later, the market will implode. It always does.

At this point in time it is worth it to buy every fringe playable card less than 5$ when a set comes out, even if most don't pan out the few that do at least triple in price. MTG cards are the only market I can think of that has practically no risk at all.

[Megadeus]

Scorched Ruins got bought out. 2 sellers at 19.99, and 1 at 100.00. LOL

[apple713]

All I know is that sooner or later, the market will implode. It always does.

Has it ever inploded for magic before? Not to my knowledge. Traditional indications and fluctuations that suggest it will happen are not present in the mtg marketplace.

Traditionally where stocks are bought forbinvestment there is a means to an end, a target gain or something. In mtg there is no natural get out point. Legacy cards are more or less consumed when a legacy player purchades them. Sure stores buy and sell them but there are fewer sellers and alot more buyers.

[thecrav]

At this point in time it is worth it to buy every fringe playable card less than 5$ when a set comes out, even if most don't pan out the few that do at least triple in price. MTG cards are the only market I can think of that has practically no risk at all.

About once a year I go through the stack of cards that I opened from one I still bought boxes. Every time, I find something new that has gotten absurdly expensive.

Someone gave me a box of their old stuff a few years ago. It was mostly crap and I sold everything worth anything. I put the rest of it back in the box. I went through the box last weekend and pulled out $50 worth of random crap (woo pain lands!).

[Jo11ygrnreefer]

WOW, I bought Null Rods for 2.99 each last year, thank you Eldrazi, the speculation market worked in my favor for once!

[jrsthethird]

WOW, I bought Null Rods for 2.99 each last year, thank you Eldrazi, the speculation market worked in my favor for once!

This is one thing Eldrazi have literally nothing to do with. lol

[Jo11ygrnreefer]

This is one thing Eldrazi have literally nothing to do with. lol

LOL, you are actually correct. Due to being on the reserved list, small set run, and being a spectacular artifact hate card. I apologize, I should read more before trying to make a valid comment.

[jrsthethird]

Here's another issue. Last night, Magmatic Force was bought out on TCGPlayer, causing the price to go up from $1.75 to $11. Even so, earlier today, SCG had 50 copies listed to sell at $2.99. So the card was bought out at TCG, but nowhere else. This points likely to people trying to manipulate the Pucatrade market (which is a system that's broken and you shouldn't do it). They go by TCG Mid prices, so if you can adjust the TCG price by buying all the cards, list at an arbitrarily higher price to set it, then you can dump your crappy cards on unsuspecting folks who have the card on their Puca lists. If I have it on my Puca list, I pay an arm and a leg for the card (and there's a big "buyer beware" clause in the Puca agreement that allows this), and then they rack up Puca points to spend on real cards.

There's a function to set a maximum allowed point value to spend on any one card, but Puca only gives that function to Rare members (the maximum subscription level). Anyone using it for free, or using the cheaper Uncommon subscription is, probably unknowingly, subject to random price spike exploitation.

Meanwhile, the card is now out of stock on SCG, which is likely an SCG reaction to the spike and not because someone bought all their copies.

[Mr.C]

Has it ever inploded for magic before? Not to my knowledge. Traditional indications and fluctuations that suggest it will happen are not present in the mtg marketplace.

Traditionally where stocks are bought forbinvestment there is a means to an end, a target gain or something. In mtg there is no natural get out point. Legacy cards are more or less consumed when a legacy player purchades them. Sure stores buy and sell them but there are fewer sellers and alot more buyers.

Not with Magic, yet. For every other collectible in history, yes.

[apple713]

Not with Magic, yet. For every other collectible in history, yes.

that's the thing tho, i can't think of any other collectibles that are actively played with.

[Davran]

that's the thing tho, i can't think of any other collectibles that are actively played with.

Therein lies the problem. WotC has decided that "collectible" is more important than "card game" when it comes to certain cards. They keep doubling down on this position with things like EMA in an effort to please two distinctly different groups of people, and here we all are bitching about just how expensive this card game has become. Meanwhile, some cabal of collectors somewhere is sitting back and watching the value of their cardboard retirement fund appreciate in some dusty old shoebox tucked in the back of a closet. They could care less about the "card game" aspect, because maybe they never even played in the first place.

Just last night some guy walked into my LGS with a bunch of sealed boxes (legends, antiquities, revised) and unloaded them for cash. Bully for him, boo for us, as any "staples" locked away in that shrink wrap have been out of circulation for decades. You think those packs are getting opened anytime soon? Probably not.

[maharis]

Just last night some guy walked into my LGS with a bunch of sealed boxes (legends, antiquities, revised) and unloaded them for cash. Bully for him, boo for us, as any "staples" locked away in that shrink wrap have been out of circulation for decades. You think those packs are getting opened anytime soon? Probably not.

wait, what? A guy walked into your LGS and made a 5 figure transaction on sealed product?

Granted, I'm sure they didn't give him what SCG prices those at, but.... even 7-8k seems like a lot to drop on such a product. i'm not sure my local store would even want to acquire that because it would be so hard to move for profit.