[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

[dahcmai]

Chapin used them in his Gran Prix Columbus deck. It was a Survival deck, but it goes to show it can have a use past Grim Lavamancer. It's useful when you can't afford to be destroying your own graveyard.

[kiblast]

Also its casting cost is pretty stompish-friendly. I wonder games where you go turn 1 Ancient Tomb, Painter naming blue, turn 2 Spinal Villain ( I have a REB and a Pyro too, in hand.)...I only have 2, need to find some more.

[MattH]

Try to buy a Foil Decree of Pain or foil Karmic guide. That's a couple of good ones. EDH obviously.
Guide, sure, but Decree's not too tough. Treachery, on the other hand, is a nightmare.

[AlmostGrown]

I was just looking at him the other day and I could've sworn he was under $2!

[LegacyInferno]

I think it is ridiculous how some cards can be so much money. Wizards has this high and mighty attitude towards their customer base with the stupid reprint policy. Like I get it, maybe printing duel lands is a bad idea, but why can't the print fetchable duels like they did in ravinca again? or reprint FoW which isn't even on the reserved list.

Mind you I do complain about this, but I have spent many years on my collection and I still find it outragous. this is why I live by this policy. I buy a new set, and the singles i want to keep and then binder the boxes and trade out the butt for legacy cards. or sink the high end stuff in for credit or cash and get it that way, amazingly it actually turns out to be cheaper that way than anything else.

[dahcmai]

Here's an interesting tidbit. I don't know if this is going to be a trend of what, but it sure got my notice.

Ok, there's this little promotion where if you buy Duels of the Planeswalkers (some video game), you can get a voucher to take to a store and they give you a foil Frost Titan, Inferno Titan, or Grave titan, depending on the platform you bought it for, Steam, PC, Xbox. Anyway, does this strike anyone as odd how they decided to print every titan, but the money mythic Primeval as a promo now?

You know, I keep seeing this happen a ton. Jace the Mind Sculptor is a big money rare. What's the odds he gets a reprint in M12? I say virtually none. I'm starting to think there's a policy in place to keep the "Collectability" in the cards as far as money rares go. It seems anything that gets too high up in price is totally ignored for reprints from there on out. Eh, maybe it's just me, but it sure seems weird to choose what they do for these promos.

Enjoy your FNM in April as you get that stupid Eldrazi instead of the older cool FNM promos like Brainstorm, Wasteland, Swords to Plowshares, and Enlightened Tutor. See the trend? It's starting to get on my nerves.

[Klazam]

Lookit!

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p4712.m570.l1312&_nkw=pristine+talisman&_sacat=See-All-Categories

This is a bit crazy. $35 for a common, with mirrodin pure's expansion symbol....

[Dragon_Whelp]

You know, I keep seeing this happen a ton. Jace the Mind Sculptor is a big money rare. What's the odds he gets a reprint in M12? I say virtually none.

You might be wrong there (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/665).

All of those are from Zendikar, with the exception of Garruk. And if they had included Nissa Revane, they would have needed Nissa's Chosen as well, which might be what they averted. I think Jace and friends are going to be in the next two Core Sets, just like the Lorwyn 'Walkers were after being printed.

[TheArchitect]

Lookit!

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p4712.m570.l1312&_nkw=pristine+talisman&_sacat=See-All-Categories

This is a bit crazy. $35 for a common, with mirrodin pure's expansion symbol....

What??? I didn't go to game day but I have a bunch of friends with these floating around in their junk boxes. I'll have to let them know. I can't imagine such a useless card will ever be worth more than they are now at the prime of the hype.

[Parax]

I'm glad gideon is going down in price then. I've been wanting one for some casual decks, but not for the price hes running because of standard. I'm actually happy about this. Same with Sorin, but not as much.

[pw709]

Chapin used them in his Gran Prix Columbus deck. It was a Survival deck, but it goes to show it can have a use past Grim Lavamancer. It's useful when you can't afford to be destroying your own graveyard.

I didn't see it anywhere here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcG_AxYT10s

And you've been harping on Spinal Villian this long and you didn't even think of it in Painter? Isn't that the whole point? XD

I agree about it, but having a ton of Italian versions around, plus it being so narrow, I don't see it ever being much higher than it is now. But then again the "speculation prices" are often irrational.

[dahcmai]

The Faerie Macabre is the thing that took it's spot in the deck later on. That was the Villain's spot. Though he did say the only Merfolk deck he played later on was Saito and it wasn't all that hot against him.

I don't play painter much. I only play Control or combo. Works pretty good for control. It was best in Survival though.

[LegacyInferno]

Lookit!

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p4712.m570.l1312&_nkw=pristine+talisman&_sacat=See-All-Categories

This is a bit crazy. $35 for a common, with mirrodin pure's expansion symbol....

a 35 dollar common that has a symbol on it for Mirrodin Pure, since mirrodin pure won't exisit it becomes a highly collectable piece. since there are a very limited number of this card. since only the stores who participated in games day, and there was only two cards given to each store with each symbol. Look at the blue hurrican for example its roughly 5000 dollars? why because it is limited in run and print so it drives the prices up. this card is collectable for that very reason and it's only sitting at 35 on ebay at the moment. so it wouldn't surprise me this fetching near or around 40-60 dollars momentarly. Since even wizards said one card will be in, the other will be out.

[nodahero]

So will the Talisman be allowed in Eternal formats? or has there been no word... curiosity mainly.

[MattH]

So will the Talisman be allowed in Eternal formats? or has there been no word... curiosity mainly.

Of course it will. What a silly question.

[Pippin]

so... people still blaming SCG for price spikes?

Troll and Toad is currently buying NM Wastelands for $60, and NM Force of Will's for also $60. They are buying every dual for more than SCG, except for Volcanic. :eek:

[GGoober]

LOL, that's hilarious. Anyway, I'm waiting to see the bubble burst and laugh at the stores who can't clear their inventory buying at such high rates. Either troll and toad has done the calculations to make sure they clear their potential stock with this buylist (probably making marginal profits since I don't see people paying more than $70 for a regular Wasteland anytime soon) or they are just trying to see how much they can get away with this price hike.

My guess is T&T has Wastelands in stash, put up an inventory of empty wastelands, and then see how people respond to their buylist and slowly release Wastelands out to sell at the $80 margin, when they have stocks of Wastelands they bought at $20-40. at least if I were any non-SCG vendor, this will be my reaction to making money out of the hype.

[pw709]

The Faerie Macabre is the thing that took it's spot in the deck later on. That was the Villain's spot. Though he did say the only Merfolk deck he played later on was Saito and it wasn't all that hot against him.

I don't play painter much. I only play Control or combo. Works pretty good for control. It was best in Survival though.

Ah. That's strange that he would feature the deck in the video as a different version from the one he played in the event.

And I don't play Legacy at all, but putting Spinal Villian in Painter just seems so obvious. :)

[Arsenal]

Sad, trollandtoad used to be a website that consistently sold their chase cards for far less than SCG. Now, they're just jumping on the train; leaving very little reason to shop with them. FoW used to be $54 on t&t when it was $75 on SCG, now, FoW is $80 on t&t. Sickening.

[Zamussels]

My local store recently raised the price of Force of Will to 80$ but is still selling Wasteland for 50$. I'm guessing they will raise the price soon but they still have 20+ at that price. Is everywhere like that?

[ramanujan]

Wow,

Wasteland is getting out of hand. Unfortunately, I don't know how its price is going to go down. Okay, everyone play single color decks for the next 6 months, together we can decrease the playability of the card.

[pandaman]

My theory is that the reason that these stores raising buy prices of duals/Forces/Wastelands etc. may be because they need to get them into stock to attract Eternal customers to their stores in the first place. I don't know about anyone else, but when I buy singles I buy in bulk - a couple of dual lands and then some odd cards to finish off playsets - a Standstill, a Pernicious Deed or 2 Red Elemental Blasts, for example. If the stores can secure a customer deciding to buy a dual land from their store then they've got them on their site or at their store, and the chances of them deciding to buy more Eternal cards they may need (hell, even Standard cards) becomes higher once you've got them hooked on buying a dual from you. Then you can make the margains on these lesss expensive cards (which you can buy for less) better and make more profit. But the stores have to get the players wanting, no, needing, to come to their stores in the first place because maybe that's the only place they can source the duals they want from.

For example, if I want an Underground sea and genericmagiccardshop.com doesn't have it but awesomewellstockedmagiccardshop.com does, I will buy it from the latter, and if I need anything else ancilliary I will likely buy it from the latter store to save on shipping costs, unless it's grossly overpriced. The latter store has got my business because it had that chase card in stock, and has profited from me buying a whole heap of other cards at the same time, almost as an afterthought. If the margains are good on those cards, it's pretty tasty for the store. And I believe that the margains for common/uncommon playables for Eternal would be very good (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

But have the margains changed much in terms of dollar value and percentage from when Force of Will was selling for $50 and now selling for $75? I don't remember what they were buying them for when they were selling for $50, can anyone shed some light?

[death]

Wow,

Wasteland is getting out of hand. Unfortunately, I don't know how its price is going to go down. Okay, everyone play single color decks for the next 6 months, together we can decrease the playability of the card.

That's a possibility. I wonder if Blood Moon and Back to Basics also increased??

[lordofthepit]

so... people still blaming SCG for price spikes?

Troll and Toad is currently buying NM Wastelands for $60, and NM Force of Will's for also $60. They are buying every dual for mothan SCG, except for Volcanic. :eek:

Holy cow, $95 buy price for Underground Sea?! Time for me to cash in.

[yawg07]

Yeah, I'm never ever getting back into Legacy.
I'll play with borrowed stuff (and I do, and I do well at tourneys) but I will never be able to buy a deck again.

*shrug*

Never thought it'd get this bad.



For example, if I want an Underground sea and genericmagiccardshop.com doesn't have it but awesomewellstockedmagiccardshop.com does, I will buy it from the latter, and if I need anything else ancilliary I will likely buy it from the latter store to save on shipping costs, unless it's grossly overpriced. The latter store has got my business because it had that chase card in stock, and has profited from me buying a whole heap of other cards at the same time, almost as an afterthought. If the margains are good on those cards, it's pretty tasty for the store. And I believe that the margains for common/uncommon playables for Eternal would be very good (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
But what about when the card is absurd at both places and you buy from eBay to save ~5-10 dollars.

[dahcmai]

I'm starting to wonder if it's worth it to cash out and call it good. I love this game, but man, everyone is talking about all these price increases. How far can this go? I have a ton of stuff. I have no clue what it would be worth if cashed in, but I am really starting to think it's worth it to go ahead and do it. I'm sure I'd be mortgage free afterwards and that's really, really enticing. This is crazy.

Sadly, I think I am going to add it up and decide. If it's over 100k, I will. What has become of this game?

[Dragon_Whelp]

That's a possibility. I wonder if Blood Moon and Back to Basics also increased??

Not Blood Moon - it was printed and reprinted four times.

Heck, I even have a foil one that's worth next to nothing.

EDIT: Doran, the Siege Tower is at 30 $!

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1311&_nkw=doran+the+siege+tower&_sacat=See-All-Categories (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)

[jazzykat]

I'm starting to wonder if it's worth it to cash out and call it good. I love this game, but man, everyone is talking about all these price increases. How far can this go? I have a ton of stuff. I have no clue what it would be worth if cashed in, but I am really starting to think it's worth it to go ahead and do it. I'm sure I'd be mortgage free afterwards and that's really, really enticing. This is crazy.

Sadly, I think I am going to add it up and decide. If it's over 100k, I will. What has become of this game?

You've got way more stuff than me but we were in that thread a while ago before "Price Hike 2.0" started. What is starting to shock me is the actual return you can potentially make by speculating or cashing out duals. I can tell you that my ~$1000 I paid for a dual playset has more than doubled in value in 10 years. That is a 100% increase. I wouldn't put my savings into this cardboard but it is the only hobby I would ever have that I am pretty damn sure I at least hit break even on in $ due to the value increase of many of my cards even when factoring in tournaments, and buying cards like Promo Meddling Mages that aren't worth more than $5 now.

BTW you illustrated my walk away price explanation in the other thread perfectly. For your sake I hope it is whatever brings you the most happiness.

[jazzykat]

Apologies. Double Post.

[jamesh]

What has become of this game?

umm, it's now quite old, played internationally - and enjoyed by many many of thousands - collectable and certain items are relatively scarce
when these scarce items are also heavily demanded - and required in multiple copies - they will have some value
but put it in perspective - is a few thousand dollars really a lot of money over time?

mtg players always (and have always) complain about price - there's a certain pleasure in this sort of whining - and frequently want something for nothing
that's completely unrealistic, gotta pay to play

[dahcmai]

It's just becoming a debate of "do I destroy my favorite hobby?" as compared to having financial freedom. That's a huge question for anyone my age. I'm 39 btw.

[Shursh]

so... people still blaming SCG for price spikes?

Troll and Toad is currently buying NM Wastelands for $60, and NM Force of Will's for also $60. They are buying every dual for more than SCG, except for Volcanic. :eek:Probably the best april fool ever
but if not - i'm gonna sell a lot of my cards)

[Pippin]

Probably the best april fool ever
but if not - i'm gonna sell a lot of my cards)

Maybe, but most likely not since the list was updated on March 31st, not on april fool's day :eyebrow:

I'm personally waiting for ebay to catch up with some of the prices, and if it does - there goes part of my collection. Good thing (if there is a good thing about this situation) is that lots of cards will be cleared out of closets and basements and will end up in hands of those that want to pay the ridiculous price tags and actually play the game instead of speculate.

[Shursh]

Maybe, but most likely not since the list was updated on March 31st, not on april fool's day :eyebrow:They've update the list at 6pm, best way to set buylist online all night long.

[Pippin]

They've update the list at 6pm, best way to set buylist online all night long.

hm? The list was actually updated early in the morning on 31st of March, EST time. That would make it afternoon in Europe's time, and even more in Russia.
In my opinion, this is nowhere near the april fool's day joke since it would make no business sense to them + look at their sell prices (Wasteland for $80). They most likely just wanted to get their stock full really fast.

[Nelis]

Maybe they're stocking up for Grand Prix Amsterdam?

[Shursh]

The list was actually updated early in the morning on 31st of March, EST time. This is insane, if it actually happens

[Amon Amarth]

God these prices are fucking insane. I need 2 more Wastelands to finish off my 3rd set. Do I buy now? Since it is like a mega-hyper format staple it might be reprinted at some point in a box set. Man, I don't know.

[Nelis]

Stop complaining if you have more than one set. Its people like you who make it so expensive.

[Whippoorwill]

Stop complaining if you have more than one set. Its people like you who make it so expensive.

On the plus side, its more incentive for people to get rid of excess sets as well. I'm gonna try to unload my extra set of Wastelands for a couple Jaces this weekend. Already unloaded 2 extra SoFaI I had as well for Legacy playables I needed.

[yawg07]

Is TES the cheapest tier deck in the format, now?

[Nessaja]

Dredge is very likely cheaper.

[yawg07]

Dredge is very likely cheaper.

I haven't been keeping up with some decks, is Dredge still winning a lot?

[jamesh]

dedge is awesome

[GGoober]

SCG is no longer buying them at $43, I believe it's just $35 now. Now time to laugh at the other stores buying at $60 and end up not being able to make good profit margins. MWAHAHAA. I seriously doubt these online retailers put in as much effort as SCG does wworking out profit margins and stocking/emptying inventory. Their website shows :P Oh god I'm starting to trollz!


(I don't see wastelands ever going higher than $70 in the next month. Period. In the next year maybe but not in a month).

[Bignasty197]

My local store raised the prices on all of the legacy cards they have last week.
Underground Sea was $81, now $110
Tundra was $76, now $91
Bayou was $51, now $73
a beat-to-shit Wasteland with whitening and shuffle creasing is at $53.
Tarmogoyf was $55, now $70
Force of Will was $50, now $75.
There are others that spiked in price but I forgot by how much.

It's pretty intimidating to new players or players thinking about converting from Standard to look on the other side of the counter and see price tags like this. I guess on the bright side of things, most people that play T2 that I know are complete douchebags and I wouldn't want to be sitting across from them anyway. This is probably a good thing because this leaves Legacy a format in which only mature people with a job and decent cash flow can participate.

[Koby]

Wasteland is getting out of hand IMO.

I bought them late last summer (in the thick of the SCG Open season) for a little under $25 a pop. I'm almost at the point where they are worth more than double, in less than 1 year's time.

IMO, some chase uncommons need to show up as a reprint in an Event deck ala Standard's RDW, but for Legacy.

Event deck: Merfolk anyone?

[MattH]

who has an arrow and just bought a foil decree of pain for $11

<--this guy

[(nameless one)]

Wasteland is getting out of hand IMO.

I bought them late last summer (in the thick of the SCG Open season) for a little under $25 a pop. I'm almost at the point where they are worth more than double, in less than 1 year's time.

IMO, some chase uncommons need to show up as a reprint in an Event deck ala Standard's RDW, but for Legacy.

Event deck: Merfolk anyone?

This would be sweet. I believe nothing on Vial Goblins, Merfolks or even Death and Taxes are on the Reserved List. Hell, they can even do Dredge!

[MattH]

This would be sweet. I believe nothing on Vial Goblins, Merfolks or even Death and Taxes are on the Reserved List. Hell, they can even do Dredge!
Not unless you're splashing in the tribal decks! I thought Karakas was reserved, but it appears I was wrong:

http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/products/reprintpolicy

[death]

It feels really good looking at my immaculate Wastelands right now, I paid like $2 for a playset back then.

Barely used them in my unpowered Vintage Oath and proxied MUD.

[GGoober]

sdematt you're such an ass but such a genius at the same time :) That's the best way to get people questioning eternal price jumps and how ridiculous the situation is.

http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/083778.html

And +1000 posts from me aka I have no life and need to get off the forums :P

[android]

I remember a time when asking those prices would have been greedy (and it's not that long ago).

[Pippin]

SCG is no longer buying them at $43, I believe it's just $35 now. Now time to laugh at the other stores buying at $60 and end up not being able to make good profit margins. MWAHAHAA. I seriously doubt these online retailers put in as much effort as SCG does wworking out profit margins and stocking/emptying inventory. Their website shows :P Oh god I'm starting to trollz!


(I don't see wastelands ever going higher than $70 in the next month. Period. In the next year maybe but not in a month).

What are you on about? SCG wasn't buying Wastelands for $43, but first for $30, then they raised it to $33, and now it's currently sitting at $35. So it's just going up

[Comrade]

a 35 dollar common that has a symbol on it for Mirrodin Pure, since mirrodin pure won't exisit it becomes a highly collectable piece. since there are a very limited number of this card. since only the stores who participated in games day, and there was only two cards given to each store with each symbol. Look at the blue hurrican for example its roughly 5000 dollars? why because it is limited in run and print so it drives the prices up. this card is collectable for that very reason and it's only sitting at 35 on ebay at the moment. so it wouldn't surprise me this fetching near or around 40-60 dollars momentarly. Since even wizards said one card will be in, the other will be out.


Whoa there Kemo Sabe, settle them horses. A Pristine Talisman will never reach the legendary tier of a blue hurricane in a million years. This thing is about as useful as a Wyvern backed Elvish Hunter, but only half as cool. Unless that's your auction up there, I see no reason to get that excited.

[sdematt]

I thought it was a great way to shake up the boards and get people thinking about exactly what the hell's going on with the market. Hopefully my post made you all think a little.

-Matt

[Pale Moon FTW]

Wasteland is getting out of hand IMO.

I bought them late last summer (in the thick of the SCG Open season) for a little under $25 a pop. I'm almost at the point where they are worth more than double, in less than 1 year's time.


Hell, I bought them for less than $25 a piece two months ago and others were buying them for as little as $18 a piece at that time. The rate of price increase on Wasteland has been minuscule until recently, the madness has all happened during the last couple of months.

[Royal Ass.]

One of my Wastelands has the word "Stabilizer" written in sharpy on the back of it. Someone used it as a proxy. That should give you an indication of how long I have had my set of wastelands! They were probably worth less than $5 in trade value at the time, and if I remember correctly the "Stabilizer" one was worth next to nothing when I traded for it. I wonder how much the "stabilizer" one is worth now :)

One more fun story: There used to be a local card shop that I would frequent. They had this card dispenser machine where you would put a few quarters in a slot and push the lever in and it would spit out a random batch of cards that the store had put together. In the front of the machine there was a glass display with a few of the nicer cards that would tempt you to try your luck at the machine. I remember that two of the cards were a Force of Will and a Dual Land. I asked the shop owner if I could just buy the cards in the front of the display. He let me and I specifically remember the FOW costing $9 and the dual was $10. Lol. That was a long time ago. I still have that FOW. I don't remember which dual it was.

[dahcmai]

Makes you wonder what would happen if one of those "hoarder" type collectors dumped all at once. There are people who actually have several hundred copies, if not thousands of some cards due to dealing in them back when card shows were the place to get stuff as opposed to the internet. Some of those guys could drop the price to virtually nothing overnight.


I knew one guy who had an entire bedroom full of cards. Literally, to the ceiling, boxes and boxes of old stuff. There's some people out there with entirely too much money and nothing to do with it.

[Finn]

I know I don't qualify dahcmai, but my wife and I did an inventory of our assets last year and my cards were our number one. I wonder if I can get them insured.

[menace13]

This is insane. all 40 duals, Fetches, playsets of FoW,LED,Wasteland and Goyf total around 4k+ to buy using SCGs price.

[Dragon_Whelp]

Makes you wonder what would happen if one of those "hoarder" type collectors dumped all at once. There are people who actually have several hundred copies, if not thousands of some cards due to dealing in them back when card shows were the place to get stuff as opposed to the internet. Some of those guys could drop the price to virtually nothing overnight.


I knew one guy who had an entire bedroom full of cards. Literally, to the ceiling, boxes and boxes of old stuff. There's some people out there with entirely too much money and nothing to do with it.

Huh. I mentioned that I knew a dealer earlier. Last time I met him, he told me that his living room was currently filled with boxes of cards. To put into perspective just how much stuff he has, he always brings two suitcases filled with cards to our club when he shows up, and it does, among other things, contain 4 normal playsets of Goyf and 1 + 3/4 foil playsets of it.

Well, he's planning on selling everything but the contents of those two suitcases.

[jamesh]

you'd be surprised how much of these types of collections are actually worthless
for every wasteland or beta dual is a million grizzly bears

[sephorusFR]

i leave 3 weeks and this happens O-O
i wonder how much the old dci promo foil wasteland is worth now ...

are the game able to sustain such bubble-like prices for long ?

[Dragon_Whelp]

you'd be surprised how much of these types of collections are actually worthless
for every wasteland or beta dual is a million grizzly bears

Indeed, but I know for a fact that he mostly deals in complete sets and buys boosters, not by the box, but by... Whatever the boxes are packed in when they're shipped to other countries. And directly from Wizards. So he has a lot of crap, but that's definitely not all of it.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Indeed, but I know for a fact that he mostly deals in complete sets and buys boosters, not by the box, but by... Whatever the boxes are packed in when they're shipped to other countries. And directly from Wizards. So he has a lot of crap, but that's definitely not all of it.

I think that would be "palettes" or "flats" that you were looking for there 0.O

[jamesh]

or case (6 booster boxes)?

[allek]

Earlier this year, I sold of all my pimp cards. I had practically all tier1 legacy decks in foil and if foil versions didn't exist, in japanese. I also had all 40 fbb duals which I kept. Where I live, foil cards are not valued as high as internationally but I still managed to make a nice profit, part of which i re-invested in non-foil staples. I have a few playsets of FOWs etc and very soon a complete set of revised and unlimited duals.

I think the prices will continue to rise and that it's not to late to get into the format now, the SCG opens are excellent marketing channels for the format to expand, and GP Amsterdam later this year might take legacy even higher than GP Madrid last year. Legacy is fun and diverse, and skill-rewarding and I think that Wizards are doing a fine job of keeping the format healthy by continue to make good cards for the eternal formats.

I'll definitely sell my fbb duals quite soon, having had them for 2-3 years now probably equals a selling margin of 150% or so, I remember buying the UG seas for approx $80 and the non-blue ones such as Taiga for less than $50.

BTW, GW Maverick is pretty cheap. 4 goyf, 4 wasteland, 4 savannah will cost a bit but the rest of the deck is more reasonable and it's a asskicking deck that is fun to play and Tier1 in a meta where combo isn't too heavily played.

[Dragon_Whelp]

I think that would be "palettes" or "flats" that you were looking for there 0.O

Palettes. The Danish word is "Paller", so I think that's what it translates to.

[TheDarkshineKnight]

Wasteland is getting out of hand IMO.

I bought them late last summer (in the thick of the SCG Open season) for a little under $25 a pop. I'm almost at the point where they are worth more than double, in less than 1 year's time.

Sweet lord, this. I bought my playset for $20 back in the day.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

So Jace, the Mind Sculptor dropped in price.

SCG has him now listed at $89.99, was at $109.99.

[death]

So Jace, the Mind Sculptor dropped in price.

SCG has him now listed at $89.99, was at $109.99.

There are now 41 Jace, tMS in the top 16, I'm guessing that would change soon.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

There are now 41 Jace, tMS in the top 16, I'm guessing that would change soon.

Yeah, I've been paying attention to these Standard Opens and everytime the top 16 is a cluster-fuck of Caw-Go decks--the ban hammer no where in sight.

[jamesh]

i can't imagine wizards banning key cards in standard - they've learnt from past experience that it is enormously deliterious to the longer-term health of the format (remember mirrodin block?)
if they didn't ban bloodbraid when jund was the most played deck in standard history, they sure as shit ain't gonna ban a two drop one/one searching flyer

[sclabman]

As far as I can tell, nothing in the deck is really ban-worthy. It's just a good deck in the format, and nothing it does is super broken. Standard players though are just content to run the same 3 decks into each other ad nauseam.

[MattH]

i can't imagine wizards banning key cards in standard - they've learnt from past experience that it is enormously deliterious to the longer-term health of the format (remember mirrodin block?)
You have this exactly backwards, btw.

[GGoober]

Yeah, I've been paying attention to these Standard Opens and everytime the top 16 is a cluster-fuck of Caw-Go decks--the ban hammer no where in sight.

Cause there are more Jace played in Standard than Survivals played in Legacy?

Imagine if Jace was banned in Standard, I would imagine a lot more decks being viable. Aggro would be a much stronger contender, but then Gideon would just whoop aggro up.

[dahcmai]

What's funny is it's actually Valakut holding most everything back. That deck makes it so the midrange aggro decks can't exist. As long as that's happening, Caw Blade is good stuff. Considering that, it's not likely to see a ban out of them anytime soon. They have a pretty good idea of what's going on despite how it looks.

Though I do wish Jace 2.0 was kicked out of Standard for a different reason. I only have 1 foil of him so far. : /

[jandax]

Why is the SCG circuit what now defines the banned/restricted lists? Seriously. Just because people stateside were lazy with Survival, it doesn't mean that world wide the card was a problem. And why haven't other tournament circuits been popping up? I know why, I just wonder if anyone else is sort of anti-monopoly.

[Koby]

There are other tournament circuits.

TCGPlayer runs $1k and $2k Standard events regularly.

Noone else have the capability/supply to run a Legacy circuit however.

[Zoomer3989]

FYI, SCG has raised their buylist price of Force of Will to $60 each, and is now selling them for $90 each.

[mossivo1986]

ive had enough of starcity. this is too much

[GGoober]

Nothing we can do anyway. It's easy for Ben to say "Look, we want the format to be alive and healthy, because that way we can earn more money, and we want to keep prices low" v.s. "Let's see how much profit we can make by testing the elasticity of Legacy Staples, people are willing to pay these prices anyway, so that justifies us raising our prices, also, ChannelFireball and T&T are all doing the same, so we're fine".

I told my buddy how I'm very very disappointed where this is all heading. It's awesome the format's popular, it's not awesome at all how the format's growth is unnaturally governed by the secondary market forces (retailers). Basically Legacy will be growing fine and naturally without these super hiccups. Right now people are still willing to pay that much $$ for cards. I've a job and a decent salary, and splurge on foil cards every now and then, but it's becoming harder and harder to justify buying cards these days.

They still have the addicts to milk their money from, so this will continue until the addicts run dry on $$

[mossivo1986]

I've messeged Mike Turian and linked him to this discussion. This is the first step.


"Hey Mike. I wanted to ask you about the ongoing problems with the expense of Legacy, and starcity monopolizing the value of cards in the format. I am as well as many others are concerned with the Legacy format turning into Vintage. I know Wizards has honored the reserve list be it for whatever reason, but I want to know if Wizards is going to or has thought about doing anything with these ongoing problems. Do you have any opinions on the matter? If your not the person to go to, who can I talk with? Thanks. -Joel "

His response


"Hi Joel,

I will pass your message on to members of Magic R&D. If you follow Aaron Forsythe on Twitter, he was talking about Legacy just a few days ago.

Feel free to share any suggestions you have.

Thanks,
Mike "

Personally I think wizards should have a source account that we can interact with them on via these threads. It's important that they are paying attention to what we're saying. This should have been accomplished when Wizards decided to uphold the reserved list so that not only are they fulfilling their promises to vendors and such, but also to the player base so that we can voice opinions on cards that should be reprinted in future dual decks/ expansions, etc. I'm tired of seeing singles sky rocket due to starcitys inability to do anything, and wizards not supplementing some of this formats money burden. It shouldn't cost this much to play a format that isn't supported by the pro tour. Staples need to be reprinted to drive some of the cost down.

[Mark Sun]

It's unfortunate, the situation that Legacy prices are in right now, but honestly, would you rather be playing in small local tournaments where a 30 man attendance is considered groundbreaking or in multiple large events where anything under 130+ players is considered a slight failure.

I understand what peoples' sentiments in this thread are, at the end of the day Starcity is a business and you cannot fault them for having a successful structure. People want to play this format, please be glad for that fact.

[Koby]

Starcity? More like Scarcity amirite? XD

[Finn]

I thought TCG Player was owned by SCG. Are they not the same entity?

And again I say, don't bother with Jace for a couple of years. It will come down.

[Koby]

I thought TCG Player was owned by SCG. Are they not the same entity?

And again I say, don't bother with Jace for a couple of years. It will come down.

TCGPlayer is definitely not SCG.

[Mr.C]

Man, these insane price raises mean that I won;t be able to make a playset of Legacy-legal Beta cards. Can't justify plopping 4 grand on a set of Beta seas, that's just beyond retarded. I mean, I'm looking into getting an XJR, and that's the equivalent of four to five years of maintenance on that car! When a cards start becoming more expensive than maintaining a luxury car, it's just depressing.

/rant

[PanderAlexander]

I'm just as frustrated about the huge price spikes as anyone else, especially since I sold 4x playsets of all my duals last year and now buying them again. But this is a hobby, my friend has a gun hobby and it's much more expensive than magic. Not only are the pistols expensive, but the bullets have shot up a lot in price the past year.

I don't blame Starcity, they are a business, if there is a demand ---> price, they will sell to that demand at that price. It's the people willing/desperately paying that high price. I was about to buy candelabra of tawnos on ebay for $50/each two months ago but thought that was still high. They are ending at $200+ now.

[Pale Moon FTW]

"But look at this much more expensive hobby" isn't a valid argument, there are obscenely expensive hobbies out there, that certainly doesn't justify Legacy stables doubling their price in a matter of a few months. Fortunately FoWs, duals and Wasteland can still be bought for a reasonable amount if you know where to look, but eventually SCG's ridiculous prices will seep down into these places as well. If only people were aware that places like magiccardmarket.eu and cardshark exist they wouldn't buy from SCG and we wouldn't have this problem.

[TheShaun]

Not only are the pistols expensive, but the bullets have shot up a lot in price the past year.


Lol for pun.

Also, I am as annoyed by this as everyone else. However, I don't put any of the blame on SCG. They're a business, they exist #1 to make money. I have no problem with them raising their buy prices in order to build up stock. I would have a problem if they doubled the sell price but didn't change buy price, but that isn't the case. I suppose it's possible that they're actually just hoarding them to sell at a higher price later, but I seriously doubt it. It would seem to be too high of a risk for a marginal potential gain.

If a business can sell a product for $X, and it always sells, it makes sense that they are probably charging less than they could be. There isn't a single entity that just determines the value of a card, that value is determined by us, the buyers. If right this moment, everybody in the world decided that they didn't want to have FoW, what would happen to the price? SCG would pick up a ton at their current buy price but be unable to sell them. Eventually they'd realize they're losing money, and lower both the buy and sell price, until the sell price was at a level that made people want to buy again. This isn't a conspiracy, it is just direct reaction to the market.

I do share the concern over the future of the format as many of you though. It is a simple fact that 75% or more of the Legacy staples are cards that will not see print again. So we have a defined number of playable cards, and a growing number of people who want to use those cards (as SCG pushes Legacy into prominence).

I see the following options:

People will have to quit playing those cards (countering SCG's attempt to expand the format)
WotC reprints them so the format continues to grow (and screws collectors/dealers)
Tournaments start allowing proxies (more expensive decks become prominent, goodbye Goblins etc)
WotC prints cards that are similar in function but better than existing staples (again screwing collectors/dealers, as it makes current staples lose value)

Looking at the scenarios like this, it almost makes me feel that the expansion of Legacy is what could potentially lead to it's downfall. I'm sure there are other options, and hopefully there is one that doesn't have any major drawbacks. You can sort of compare the Legacy staple card pool to any other fixed limited resource in the world, such as coal or natural gas. As the population of the world increases, the need for these resources follows. Eventually we will reach a point where there aren't enough resources to supply the number of people who require it. That is why other alternatives like solar/nuclear/wind/etc are being pushed into prominence, despite efficiency (card quality) concerns.

I guess I don't really have any solution to the potential risk presented, but I think that with enough people recognizing it and thinking about it, a solution will emerge. This part will sound preachy, but maybe we should all spend more of our words focusing on how to correct the problem, instead of just bashing sellers for inflating the market.

[sdematt]

My suggestion is to do a "Timeshifted: Legacy" set, with about 100 key Legacy cards. Vials, Ports, Wastelands, Forces, Brainstorms, Swords, etc. distributed in the newest set in a 1 card per pack fashion, with differing rarities. They would only be Eternal legal, as well.

With this, Standard players would have greater access to staples, and they could always just sell them if they wanted to, thus increasing supply. Plus, it'd all be new frame, so us purists could still keep our old frame, but new frame old art could drive all the prices down a bit and help out. I know Starcity is out there to make money, but they doesn't mean they need to do it to this extent. You can't just use the excuse of
'it's capitalism" and let people get away with it.

-Matt

[TheShaun]

I know Starcity is out there to make money, but they doesn't mean they need to do it to this extent. You can't just use the excuse of
'it's capitalism" and let people get away with it.

-Matt

I get what you're saying, and yeah there has to be some sort of limit expected on greed. First off, if they are hoarding cards and just gouging prices, then I think that they're totally messed up and that they are the source of the problem. However, they make money by buying cards and selling them for more. Simple strategy. If the price that they are offering to pay for cards is not high enough to make people want to sell, then they aren't doing business. And a business that isn't doing business, won't be a business for long.

I'd be totally fine with the Timeshifted idea, though I know many huge collectors and dealers would be unhappy. Many of us would still prefer to pay top dollar for our original artwork, etc. But players entering the format would likely be able to construct solid decks for hundreds less. A potential difficulty with this idea is which cards to include. A year ago, I highly doubt anybody would have considered Candelabra to be a card that would be worthy of inclusion in a set like this. But now it costs at least a grand for a playset. I know many players have investigated pretty much every card in existence to try and break them, but who knows if something comes out a few sets from now that combos with some other old, obscure, Legends rare. Nobody would consider that card as a staple, but all of a sudden, it's necessary to build several different top decks. This is probably one of the best possible ideas that's been tossed around though, IMO.

[Koby]

My suggestion is to do a "Timeshifted: Legacy" set, with about 100 key Legacy cards. Vials, Ports, Wastelands, Forces, Brainstorms, Swords, etc. distributed in the newest set in a 1 card per pack fashion, with differing rarities. They would only be Eternal legal, as well.

-Matt

There is one saving grace this year: the Commander decks could potentially reprint Legacy staples that are not on the Reserve List (o hai der Candlabra of Tawnos and Force of Will!). There's also supposedly about 51 brand new Legacy legal cards too, some that may even be relevant. Obv another money grab (printing direct to market singles) but if there's a solid reprint there, expect these pre-cons to sell fast.

Let's hope that they use this opportunity to patch a band-aid on some singles.

[Arsenal]

Or you know, WotC could've just abolished the Reprint Policy. Magic has evolved since it's Collectible Card Game inception. Yes, there's still some value in collecting, but the gameplay aspect crushes the collecting aspect, with the Reprint Policy hamstringing the growth of the gameplay aspect greatly. After hearing some of the greatest minds in competitive Magic favor abolishing the Reprint Policy, they do the exact opposite and make it even more stringent. It's clear that they do not want non-Standard formats to thrive.

[Pippin]

There is one saving grace this year: the Commander decks could potentially reprint Legacy staples that are not on the Reserve List (o hai der Candlabra of Tawnos and Force of Will!). There's also supposedly about 51 brand new Legacy legal cards too, some that may even be relevant. Obv another money grab (printing direct to market singles) but if there's a solid reprint there, expect these pre-cons to sell fast.

Let's hope that they use this opportunity to patch a band-aid on some singles.

Candelabra of Tawnos is on the Reserve List

[Michael Keller]

I still don't think people are getting the message right here, so let me be simple and frank about what is going on with Star City Games and their outrageous price fluctuations since the inception of the Legacy Open Series:

Star City Games' attendance for these events outnumber most other large advertised Legacy events in this nation by an average of let's say, three to one. (That means for every one player at a non-Star City event, there are three players representing Star City.) With this level of consistent and growing popularity - which is essentially crushing all opposition in regards to advertising and marketing their product - they reserve the right to dictate the prices of their own product as they see fit; after all, it is their product to begin with.

The discrepancy here is that Star City, while being the premiere event coordinator in the nation, has transcended the value of the best Legacy staples to fit the needs of supply and demand, in addition to creating a profit of the would-be sale prices of a great deal of these cards. The problem isn't necessarily scarcity of product, but in reality what they are doing is completely terrifying players into selling their product because they know people are afraid to sell their cards they may never get back again due to the unprecedented price increases over the last few months. (Clever work, Ben.) Keeping this in mind, it is no wonder they are advertising their new buy list as being the best and most profitable ever to a player willing to sell their staples, because they know people are not willing to give up their staples as easily as they would have before, now that they have jacked prices up so high that people cannot afford to purchase them again.

This isn't anything new; people are talking about how Legacy is going wayward of Vintage. Tell me: What Vintage deck in the last six months has caused Force of Will to shoot up to US$90.00 or Underground Sea at a pleasant US$120.00? The answer? None. That is because Legacy itself has now taken over the reigns of dictating stapled prices, not Vintage, as most self-appointed "experts" would have you believe. More specifically, Star City being the primary catalyst in warping the value on these cards to a level that hasn't been seen since just before the format was overhauled in 2004. You are all witnessing Legacy in its Renaissance as of this moment. Just don't be surprised if the enticing articles from ringers on Star City's Open circuit have you balling in tears trying to afford the decks they have somehow found a way to horse-collar and retroactively do well with. Star City is a promotion, ladies and gentleman; a circus tent of "stars" who are advertising their own decks and making money for the big bosses behind the curtains.

They should be both happy and proud they are promoting a healthy format and are largely responsible for its current state of growth. They should, however, be ashamed of themselves for raising the value of these cards to prices so unreachable and unreasonable, that it will become impossible to afford and sustain play in the format for an extended period of time. I myself am a regular buyer of their product and I have been for years. But this is unacceptable and unreasonable, no matter how popular the format may get.

[mchainmail]

My suggestion is to do a "Timeshifted: Legacy" set, with about 100 key Legacy cards. Vials, Ports, Wastelands, Forces, Brainstorms, Swords, etc. distributed in the newest set in a 1 card per pack fashion, with differing rarities. They would only be Eternal legal, as well.

-Matt



Only if they do them cross-language and foil. I'd love me some Japanese foil Force of Wills...

[Tha Gunslinga]

So, Starcitygames.com is currently undercutting everyone on Findmagiccards.com on Green Sun's Zenith, by $1 minimum. They're selling at $5.99 when the cheapest anywhere else is $6.99. Is anyone complaining about that?

[dahcmai]

I really think there's a middle ground in there. Snow Duals were a pretty good idea, but functionally superior to the originals. Give it the Scar's Lands first 3 lands clause and it's golden. I've been playing with those Scar's Lands in Legacy already and they are good enough. (Sundering Titan deck if you're wondering why). I picked up foils of the UB one if it tells you something.

Wasteland is the tough one since having two of them similar to each other would be silly.

Force of Will is easily duplicated just because it's not on the list anyway.

Tabernacle would be easy to do something similar.

There's still a ton of design room left.

[Crysthorn]

Wasteland is the tough one since having two of them similar to each other would be silly.
Wasteland is NOT on the Reserve List, so no problem there.

[GGoober]

I still don't think people are getting the message right here, so let me be simple and frank about what is going on with Star City Games and their outrageous price fluctuations since the inception of the Legacy Open Series:

Star City Games' attendance for these events outnumber most other large advertised Legacy events in this nation by an average of let's say, three to one. (That means for every one player at a non-Star City event, there are three players representing Star City.) With this level of consistent and growing popularity - which is essentially crushing all opposition in regards to advertising and marketing their product - they reserve the right to dictate the prices of their own product as they see fit; after all, it is their product to begin with.

The discrepancy here is that Star City, while being the premiere event coordinator in the nation, has transcended the value of the best Legacy staples to fit the needs of supply and demand, in addition to creating a profit of the would-be sale prices of a great deal of these cards. The problem isn't necessarily scarcity of product, but in reality what they are doing is completely terrifying players into selling their product because they know people are afraid to sell their cards they may never get back again due to the unprecedented price increases over the last few months. (Clever work, Ben.) Keeping this in mind, it is no wonder they are advertising their new buy list as being the best and most profitable ever to a player willing to sell their staples, because they know people are not willing to give up their staples as easily as they would have before, now that they have jacked prices up so high that people cannot afford to purchase them again.

This isn't anything new; people are talking about how Legacy is going wayward of Vintage. Tell me: What Vintage deck in the last six months has caused Force of Will to shoot up to US$90.00 or Underground Sea at a pleasant US$120.00? The answer? None. That is because Legacy itself has now taken over the reigns of dictating stapled prices, not Vintage, as most self-appointed "experts" would have you believe. More specifically, Star City being the primary catalyst in warping the value on these cards to a level that hasn't been seen since just before the format was overhauled in 2004. You are all witnessing Legacy in its Renaissance as of this moment. Just don't be surprised if the enticing articles from ringers on Star City's Open circuit have you balling in tears trying to afford the decks they have somehow found a way to horse-collar and retroactively do well with. Star City is a promotion, ladies and gentleman; a circus tent of "stars" who are advertising their own decks and making money for the big bosses behind the curtains.

They should be both happy and proud they are promoting a healthy format and are largely responsible for its current state of growth. They should, however, be ashamed of themselves for raising the value of these cards to prices so unreachable and unreasonable, that it will become impossible to afford and sustain play in the format for an extended period of time. I myself am a regular buyer of their product and I have been for years. But this is unacceptable and unreasonable, no matter how popular the format may get.

Bumping this to QFT. And to add to that: "GUYS DO YOU NOTICE THAT IF YOU SELL OFF 8 WASTELANDS, YOU CAN GET A POWER9? IT'S THE EASY NOW!" But I can't sell my Wastelands! Because I can't get them back at the price I used to buy them at, it's a lose-lose for people who don't have multiple playsets.

(Just to emphasize how ridiculously expensive Legacy is now compared to Power 9. I can no longer tell my friends that Legacy is cheaper than Standard now).

[mchainmail]

I really think there's a middle ground in there. Snow Duals were a pretty good idea, but functionally superior to the originals. Give it the Scar's Lands first 3 lands clause and it's golden. I've been playing with those Scar's Lands in Legacy already and they are good enough. (Sundering Titan deck if you're wondering why). I picked up foils of the UB one if it tells you something.

Wasteland is the tough one since having two of them similar to each other would be silly.

Force of Will is easily duplicated just because it's not on the list anyway.

Tabernacle would be easy to do something similar.

There's still a ton of design room left.

Tabernacle has issues modifying it, because changing the timing of the ability to draw step, etc makes Rishadan Port even stronger. Although they could do something like pay 1 or S.

[Tha Gunslinga]

None of that shit is going to get reprinted in any form. Give it up. We're not going to see a new Tabernacle, not going to see snow duals, not going to see "From the Vault: Legacy," not going to see a repeal of the Reserved list.

[Tinefol]

Well, we got Fork :/

[Koby]

Tabernacle has issues modifying it, because changing the timing of the ability to draw step, etc makes Rishadan Port even stronger. Although they could do something like pay 1 or S.

As if the power level errata wasn't enough. (New: Destroy vs Old: Bury/Sacrifice)

[majikal]

As if the power level errata wasn't enough. (New: Destroy vs Old: Bury/Sacrifice)
What power level errata? It says "destroy" right on the card.

[Nessaja]

As if the power level errata wasn't enough. (New: Destroy vs Old: Bury/Sacrifice)

Returning to the original wording is not a power level errata. Old=Destroy New was Sacrifice.

[Koby]

Returning to the original wording is not a power level errata. Old=Destroy New was Sacrifice.

The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale: Destroy.
Pendrell Mists: Bury.
Magus of the Tabernacle: Sacrifice.

Yay consistency! Anyway, they should reprint one that's similar to the magus, so at least it matches. :)

[majikal]

The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale: Destroy.
Pendrell Mists: Bury.
Magus of the Tabernacle: Sacrifice.

Yay consistency! Anyway, they should reprint one that's similar to the magus, so at least it matches. :)

Then all those Stax decks can have two in play at once! Great idea!

[Sims]

Then all those Stax decks can have two in play at once! Great idea!

All what stax decks? Since when has Stax been a legit concern in the metagame?

[Koby]

Then all those Stax decks can have two in play at once! Great idea!

I congratulate anyone who goes out and spends the money to own Tabernacles. It's easily the worst way to spend $200.

[majikal]

No I'm being serious. Having two Tabernacles might make those decks better. And 42 lands would love to have 2 in play also. That really is a great idea!

[keys]

Wasteland has been reprinted twice already, and probably will get more reprints eventually... Foil Force of Will is going to happen sooner or later as well. I'm sure Wizards is just trying to figure out how to do it gracefully without making it look like a huge cash grab. My guess is as a Judge foil or GP reward of some kind. Foils and other "premium" versions of cards are actually great for the marketplace because they provide price discrimination and product differentiation in addition to increasing the card pool.

We also have to accept the fact anything that is on the reserved list, sadly, is not going to see a reprint. Functional reprints are too risky for a lot of the cards, like Tabernacle for example, because they'd see play in the same decks. The Ravnica shocklands are as close are we're ever going to get to dual reprints, unless Wizards renegs on their recent policy, which is very unlikely.

Rest assured the marketplace is doing it's job of distributing product to the most people in the most efficient way. As long as the growth of the player base (demand) exceeds the growth of the card pool (supply), prices will continue to rise (inflation). A lot of Legacy staples were undervalued for a long time, and the new buy prices have come as a shock to a lot of people. But don't be fooled into thinking it's some conspiracy on behalf of major online retailers like SCG that prices are rising; the marketplace controls them, not the other way around.

I wish we could get some statistics about SCG's share of mtg related transactions compared to something like eBay, just so we can prove how insignificant they are.

[Royal Ass.]

I don't see why people are so certain that the Reserved List will not be abolished. Wizards is a rational company I would assume. If enough of their customers demand that they abolish the Reserved List I think that it is very possible to happen. Basically they just need to be convinced that it will be more profitable for them to abolish the reserved list than to keep it. Clearly the Magic purists want the list abolished because they love the game. The corporate types at Wizards/Hasbro probably feel that it's best to focus on supporting formats that sell packs and think printing old cards will deter this.

With respect to the argument that they are honoring a promise to "collectors", I have always assumed that most people acknowledged that this was a diversionary argument without merit (frozen in time since Chronicles was printed). This argument makes little sense. Look at Beta Underground Sea. It is worth more than a Mox or Ancestral, yet it was reprinted in Revised. It's worth more because demand drives price and demand comes from players not collectors. If Reserved List cards were printed in responsible quantities that maintained the integrity of the old versions, the price of the old versions would actually increase because it would create more interest in the format, thus increasing demand for the cards and making the old copies more prestigious - just like how Beta Undergrounds are worth more than a Mox. Anyone hording old cards would actually benefit financially by reprinting because it would create more players of old formats and increase the demand in having the pimp old versions of the cards.

There are many examples of this. Look at Birds of Paradise, printed a million times. Then compare it to Two Headed Giant, last printed in Unlimited. Both are Alpha/Beta rares. You can get a M11 BOP for a dollar but a Beta one is $200. That's because it is played and reprinting playable cards does not diminish the value of the original printing so long as the card is competitive in a modern format or has casual appeal.

I would encourage people to continue to let Wizards know that they want the Reserved List abolished and that they want old cards reprinted in responsible quantities (cards both on and off the list). Once Wizards realizes that they can make significant money off this player-base they will consider changing their policy. I think that they stupidly think that having strong eternal formats will hurt Standard- their cash cow. However, these two things are not mutually exclusive. Not all legacy players are going to blindly play Standard if they can't play Legacy. They will walk away from the game. Wizards will lose a customer. They need to understand this. Once they do they will reprint cards. They are a rational company.

[cdr]

If you think there's any chance Wizards will get rid of the reserved list, you haven't been paying attention. Read this (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20265-Starcity-s-new-buy-list-Consequences&p=530239&highlight=#post530239).

[Tha Gunslinga]

I don't see why people are so certain that the Reserved List will not be abolished.

Because Wizards already went through the "should we or shouldn't we" question and found an answer, and has announced that they will be sticking with that answer. Anyone who is speculating about "well, what if they would do From the Vaults: hundred-dollar lands" or whatever is just wasting their time. The Reserved List is here to stay. Yes, it sucks. No, there's nothing we can do about it, and there are basically no loopholes unless Wizards wants to go the Reverberate/Fork route, which I would bet against. When the official Commander decks come out, we'll see if there's anything new and playable in there, but I wouldn't bet too heavily on it.

[mchainmail]

What power level errata? It says "destroy" right on the card.

When Magus was printed, Tabernacle's oracle was Sacrifice. I don't remember exactly when the changes happened, although I know it has been destroy for at least a year. (Aside: F*** Eldrazi Monument. Elves cast that against me once, Tabernacle didn't do anything.)

[Mr.C]

None of that shit is going to get reprinted in any form. Give it up. We're not going to see a new Tabernacle, not going to see snow duals, not going to see "From the Vault: Legacy," not going to see a repeal of the Reserved list.

We're never going to see Clone or Psionic Blast or Berserk either, right?

:)

[Tha Gunslinga]

Commons and uncommons were removed from the Reserved list in 2002.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/rb29

Clone was reprinted then, and Psionic Blast and Berserk were reprinted long after they were removed from the list. The recent Reserve List update that removed the possibility of foil versions being printed made it clear that this was IT, that no more changes would be made.

[Mr.C]

Commons and uncommons were removed from the Reserved list in 2002.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/rb29

Clone was reprinted then, and Psionic Blast and Berserk were reprinted long after they were removed from the list. The recent Reserve List update that removed the possibility of foil versions being printed made it clear that this was IT, that no more changes would be made.

Do you honestly believe that this is it? You've played forever, haven't you? Read this:

http://crystalkeep.com/magic/misc/reprint1999.php

Namely:

"Accordingly, we have created a list of "reserved" cards that we will never print again in a black or white border in a functionally identical form."

Never is a very strong word.

[cdr]

You're talking apples and oranges. Wizards was a completely different company in 1999 (or even 2002), for starters. Liberalizing the reserved list after the initial announcement is one thing - suddenly going ultra-conservative after years of liberalization and after the most intensive study Wizards has ever given the subject is quite another. There's no analogue.

You can't look at the circumstances around last year's restricted list policy announcement and think that change is going to happen quicker than many years - if ever.

The reserved list is utterly irrelevant to legacy at this point. Something else will give long before the reserved list does.

[Dxfiler]

So, Starcitygames.com is currently undercutting everyone on Findmagiccards.com on Green Sun's Zenith, by $1 minimum. They're selling at $5.99 when the cheapest anywhere else is $6.99. Is anyone complaining about that?

It's worth pointing out that there are businesses that are undercutting SCG too. I know of a couple :tongue:

There's always ways to get cards cheaper. You don't always have to go to the big guns. Little specialty stores don't have anywhere near the inventory of a SCG or channelfireball, but they're going to be cheaper most of the time.

Plus Ebay has been and always will be the great equalizer.

Right now SCG is buying legacy staples higher than alot of what they go on ebay for, but that's because they're trying to fight ebay. When you buy above what the card goes for on the biggest selling site in the world (yes ebay is bigger than SCG), you have to sell higher to make a profit.

If they are buying forces at $60 and selling at $90, even though you can still get forces at $60-70 on ebay... they are going to lose that war in the long run. Yes, forces were 'only' $40-50 a month ago and they actually increased because of SCG's buy prices... but ebay is always going to be cheaper. Always.

I can't really say I approve of SCG trying to completely control the secondary market, but then again I'm biased since I'm just a little shop. I don't have anywhere near the level of reach or scale of SCG and definitely am not near their level of profits :laugh: Their current buying spree admiteddly does make it harder to get some singles, but I still can usually match or come close to what the big guys are offering if not in cash then in store credit. So for the most part I get the singles I can and still manage to offer them low and filter them out to people who are actually trying to play with them.

Magic singles is a ridiculously cut-throat business right now and there are alot of miserly people out there that negatively affect the marketplace. It's hard to keep singles low when you've got people who literally just want to buy out your entire card stock so they can sell to scg. It is what it is. Magic is very hot right now, particularly legacy, and that's mainly why the price of cardboard is going through the roof. There are merchants who are taking advantage of that as best they can and that's their right. I try not to be one of them.

I don't think the current state of card prices is good for the format and it leaves alot of stores with duals and other staples some very hard choices. Like as a smaller store, do i put all my duals in the case at reasonable prices so they can instantly be bought out and re-sold to other places? Do I match the bigger retailers with unreasonable prices?

Personally I choose to do neither and just give away my bigger ticket items in tournaments. It's the fairest way to filter duals out to the local community and gives everyone a shot to win them who wants to try. Plus I'm still able to make a profit while looking at myself in the mirror :laugh:

My business model is much different from others but I'm also a one man show. I don't really condemn bigger operations like SCG who are exploiting the market right now. They are in position to do that so they have the right to.

Eventually forces/duals and other staples will fall back to earth as will their card prices. You aren't going to see revised Seas eclipsing Moxen in price. Ever. If somehow that ever happens and legacy still retains the current level of popularity it has now, then serious discussions about getting rid of the reserved list deserve to happen.

But single prices aren't that much out of whack. And I doubt they will ever get to that level of absurdness where a set of seas is $1,000. Like I said earlier, Ebay is the great eqaulizier and it keeps everyone honest. You can't price gouge with ebay around. Not in the long term anyway.

It's fascinating to watch this whole thing unfold. You get SCG setting the tone on the market, then all these local stores follow suit and try to match or even beat SCG's buy prices... but then they can't turn the singles around for enough of a profit margin because they aren't SCG =p

Personally I don't try to be something I'm not. I know an entity like SCG is going to pay higher cash than me on big ticket stuff most of the time. But that doesn't discourage me either. I have my model and they have theirs. I just wish one entity didn't have so much control over the market right now.

In the long term things will go back to normal, or at least deflated prices. As players that's the best you can hope for.

- Dave

[jazzykat]

The biggest thing about this dramatic price increase for older guys who have been playing since the begining and still do this as a hobby have to look at their collection and go hmmm... I can put a down payment on a house, fund my IRA or child's 529, buy a boat, etc. What I am getting at is that with the new buy list prices my collection is worth considerably more.

The other question I have for everyone is who the hell is buying $100 dual lands since it is apparently no one on the source given the amount of kavetching here?

Also, I think it is quite ballsy of SCG to keep raising the buy list prices. However, if Pete says I can't keep card X in stock at Y price then it would be bad business not to raise prices and get some stock of the card. Basically the only thing worse for a business than not selling something because your price is too high is not to have the product at all and tell the customer to look elsewhere. To sell more of a card all that you have to do is lower the price until you get rid of enough. However, you can't make the card out of thin air to satisfy your customer.

Quote me, when I can easily get $100 per Wasteland and assuming the rest of the staples increased at a similar percentage I'm selling EVERYTHING and buying a (racing) sailboat.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Do you honestly believe that this is it? You've played forever, haven't you? Read this:

http://crystalkeep.com/magic/misc/reprint1999.php

Namely:

"Accordingly, we have created a list of "reserved" cards that we will never print again in a black or white border in a functionally identical form."

Never is a very strong word.

Well, Magic was created in 1993, the first Reserved List change was in 2002, the second was in 2010, so we're on schedule for another one in 2017 or 2018. Have fun waiting.

[Mr.C]

Well, Magic was created in 1993, the first Reserved List change was in 2002, the second was in 2010, so we're on schedule for another one in 2017 or 2018. Have fun waiting.

Creation was 1995. Revision 1 was 1999. Revision 2 was 2002. Revision 3 was 2010. Wizards is very inconsistent. 4 different versions of "cards we will never reprint".

[Koby]

Quote me, when I can easily get $100 per Wasteland and assuming the rest of the staples increased at a similar percentage I'm selling EVERYTHING and buying a (racing) sailboat.

I will quote you, and probably join you. how else will we lower the prices to help all the fledgling SCG Open grinders? :)

[Dragon_Whelp]

Creation was 1995. Revision 1 was 1999. Revision 2 was 2002. Revision 3 was 2010. Wizards is very inconsistent. 4 different versions of "cards we will never reprint".

Alpha was released in 1993. Dunno about the other dates, but the game was definitely born in 1993.

[kusumoto]

Alpha was released in 1993. Dunno about the other dates, but the game was definitely born in 1993.

He meant the creation of the reserved list.

[Dragon_Whelp]

He meant the creation of the reserved list.

Ah. Gotcha.

[dahcmai]

I will quote you, and probably join you. how else will we lower the prices to help all the fledgling SCG Open grinders? :)

Count me in also. I'm going to pay off my mortgage and live bill free from here. When even my fun decks are $3000 decks now, it's time to call it a day and play EDH only.

[mistercakes]

just curious, what's the price on a korean null rod and korean sphere of resistance? (anyone have an idea?)

[GGoober]

Around $80-$100 depending on condition. $70 if you're lucky on Ebay. I believe Spheres are currently in more demand than Null Rod.

[mossivo1986]

Just a heads up; Karn is pre-selling on starcity for 50. This is the crap i'm talking about.

[GGoober]

Because he clearly is a playable Planeswalker like Koth, Tiriel, and Venser who also presaled $50. I can totally see Standard players using his ultimate instead of cycling Vindicates and Discard.

[Koby]

If those previous planeswalkers are any indication, let them presale for $50, then pick them up in 2 years when they are $12.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Just a heads up; Karn is pre-selling on starcity for 50. This is the crap i'm talking about.

They're ebaying at $50 in presales. What, Starcity should charge below market now?

[KindGrind]

Last 3 auctions finished respectively at 242, 260 and now 275$ for playsets of Wastelands... Things are getting more retarded by the day...

[Jason]

If those previous planeswalkers are any indication, let them presale for $50, then pick them up in 2 years when they are $12.

Someone needs to tell Nicol Bolas to go down to $12 so I can get one for EDH/Commander!

[dahcmai]

Someone needs to tell Nicol Bolas to go down to $12 so I can get one for EDH/Commander!

You get your wish in a few months as he's getting reprinted in the Ajani vs Nicol Bolas duel deck.

[Koby]

Someone needs to tell Nicol Bolas to go down to $12 so I can get one for EDH/Commander!

$14 is alot closer to $12 than $50. (http://findmagiccards.com/Cards/CF/Nicol_Bolas__Planeswalker.html)

[Pippin]

Seems like the insane growth reached its threshold for now - SCG currently has 45 NM FoW's available for $90, T&T has also quite a few Wastelands and FoW's available.
Also, T&T lowered their buy price for NM Wastelands to $54 (from $60) - but seems like they increased their buy price for Force of Will to $65.

I guess lots of cards came out of hoarder's closets and basements (lured by big prices), and hopefully ended in hands of Legacy players.

[Finn]

Folks, I don't know if this topic has been discussed, but I wonder what the market model for these cards really looks like. In other words, bubbles happen when people start talking exactly the way I read you people talking. Do Magic cards follow the same market forces that real estate, gold, stocks, currency, and everything else do? I don't expect that anyone can answer that question definitively. I am not a financial expert, but I don't recall bonafide good cards like dual lands ever even dipping much in value. I have to wonder if the fact that you can actually use cards - that is, that they have some sort of intrinsic value - makes a difference here.

[Humphrey]

Well as long as certain cards can be played the prices arent dropping anymore. Look at Tarmogoyf, its price has lowered a little but its still the most expensive creature and he can only be played in legacy now.

[sdematt]

I think the run on Wastelands and Force of Wills has happened because of speculation: I better get some before they go up, in case I'll ever need them. I think that's what the main problem is, not that suddenly people ACTUALLY need them.

-Matt

[jamesh]

I think the run on Wastelands and Force of Wills has happened because of speculation: I better get some before they go up, in case I'll ever need them. I think that's what the main problem is, not that suddenly people ACTUALLY need them.

-Matt

yeah, who'd need wasteland, duals, FOW or tarmo, playing legacy
which decks in this format really run them?

&_&

[sporenfrosch1411]

Double sarcasm is half the fun
Makes frog sad ....

[leegoo]

honestly, I find it more baffling that Force of Will has NOT been a $100 card for a long time.

Really, it's closest comparison is Mana Drain... both being uncommon counter's that are "good."

Drain goes in *some* Vintage decks, mostly fringe ones. $90 is pretty common for an Italian one on ebay, and drain has only gotten better since wizards dropped mana burn... still, it's a card that remains basically unusable, even for vintage players.

Force of will goes in...what... every deck that runs blue in legacy and almost every non-dredge non-stax deck in vintage? I mean really... it is one of the best cards ever printed.

[Doomsday]

honestly, I find it more baffling that Force of Will has NOT been a $100 card for a long time.

Really, it's closest comparison is Mana Drain... both being uncommon counter's that are "good."

Drain goes in *some* Vintage decks, mostly fringe ones. $90 is pretty common for an Italian one on ebay, and drain has only gotten better since wizards dropped mana burn... still, it's a card that remains basically unusable, even for vintage players.

Force of will goes in...what... every deck that runs blue in legacy and almost every non-dredge non-stax deck in vintage? I mean really... it is one of the best cards ever printed.


Unusable in Vintage???? It's a pillar of the format. Drains vs Rits vs Rods vs Shops vs Bazaars. That's Vintage.

[majikal]

Unusable in Vintage???? It's a pillar of the format. Drains vs Rits vs Rods vs Shops vs Bazaars. That's Vintage.
Drain gets displaced by Gush right now. Why do you need a counterspell to ramp up your mana when your engine is essentially free?

[kiblast]

Drain gets displaced by Gush right now. Why do you need a counterspell to ramp up your mana when your engine is essentially free?

Still a pillar for non gush, control decks.

[GGoober]

Sadly Spell Pierce is slowly nudging Drains out of the control pillar. As long as the format has a significant MUD dominance, Drains is the subpar counter these days. Quoting someone on TMD "Using Drains to fight Workshop is like using Exclude to fight Bob".

[leegoo]

Agreed. Most everyone in my vintage meta has moved on from drains to pierce, or even mindbreak trap in some cases. I mean, it's hard to justify it in many decks that it would *seem* good in. I guess Tezz and Oath still run it as a 2-4 of sometimes... and remora (if you consider that a deck still)

I really think drain wouldn't be a terrible option to "test" unbanning in legacy. Looks like it could really shine there. Or it could be (too) stupid good... but it seems more on the Legacy power level

[Admiral_Arzar]

Agreed. Most everyone in my vintage meta has moved on from drains to pierce, or even mindbreak trap in some cases. I mean, it's hard to justify it in many decks that it would *seem* good in. I guess Tezz and Oath still run it as a 2-4 of sometimes... and remora (if you consider that a deck still)

I really think drain wouldn't be a terrible option to "test" unbanning in legacy. Looks like it could really shine there. Or it could be (too) stupid good... but it seems more on the Legacy power level

In B4 Z0mG u canz play JTMS on TuRn 3 w/ Spel1 Peirce backup!1!!11!!!

In all seriousness, Drain is probably what's needed for pure control to become a pillar of the format again, but I don't think it's going to happen. My wallet would also HATE if it did happen lol. Imagine the prices of that card after the unban...it would make Candelabra seem like a budget card.

[GGoober]

Not going to happen. Power level still exceeds that of Legacy. It's also a highly obnoxious card in the format if it's ever unbanned. Can you imagine every deck playing blue because they fear getting drained? At least I would be playing blue because I don't want my threats getting drained into a free Jace TMS.

[leegoo]

totally agree the price hike would be enormous immediately following.

I question whether Drain, Earthcraft, Mind Twist, or Wheel of Fortune are all THAT broken. Very good, yes, but those cards in general don't hold the same power level as things like Academy, DTutor, Time Vault, etc.

Drain - would make control in legacy better without making it insane.

Earthcraft - you get what... a turn 2 kill combo deck with a god hand that requires you to attack? Maybe a different build of enchantress? Doesn't seem much more broken than Belcher/ANT/etc in the land of combo.

Mind Twist - Is there a deck that can run this? Would one appear? I just don't know... getting twisted for 4-5 on turn 1 seems like it may be too good, but I'm not sold that it is.

Wheel of Fortune - Really... I don't know... it's obviously better than Diminishing Returns, but that see's play as a 1 of in TES and that's it...

Some of the other's are questionable, but I don't know how you'd be able to tell if they would be forgotten or format warping. I do think we should keep Jar on the banned list though :)

[honestabe]

If you're calling mana drain fringe playable, I'm surprised you have the cognitive ability to type on these boards.

There are many, many Gush lists that run drain, as well as all of the Tezzeret variants (thoughtcasts, Dark confidants, night's whisper)

[Doomsday]

I have no idea what you're talking about leego, but I don't think it's Vintage. Below are the 15 most used Vintage cards in top 8 decks this past month, from Morphling.de (check out number 3)

March 2011 Top 15
Vintage (15 events)
1. Force of Will (312)
2. Underground Sea (189)
3. Mana Drain (157)
4. Wasteland (147)
5. Polluted Delta (123)
6. Hurkyl's Recall (116)
7. Leyline of the Void (112)
8. Scalding Tarn (109)
9. Pithing Needle (102)
10. Black Lotus (98)
11. Misty Rainforest (97)
12. Mox Emerald (96)
13. Mox Sapphire (95)
14. Mox Pearl (94)
15. Nature's Claim (94)

[Jason]

I'd love to play my Drains in legacy! Please, please, please unban Mana Drain! It would jack up the price of Drains so much that maybe people would stop playing as much blue (because they couldn't afford the "real Counterspell"), driving the price of Force of Will down.

[god_campbell]

I would love drain to be unbanned, it is perhaps my favorite card and to be able to play control and have it be good would be a god send.

[Justin]

I thought this thread was supposed to be about the rising price of Legacy Magic cards. There is another thread on ban list speculation here:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?14662-All-B-R-update-speculation/page33

[jamesh]

mana drain is far too powerful for legacy

does anyone know how to make a reasonable estimate of how many cards are 'available' for purchase etc.

recently there has been a lot of talk about Candleabra - the cost being directly related to its availability (and the fact that it appears in a top legacy deck obviously)

apparently there were 31000 printed but many have said (most notably ben bleiweiss) that many fewer are actually available due to card loss and collectors holding on to their cards etc.

i wonder about this, because i remember Candleabra always being a popular card, so i doubt so many were dumped - unlike say Grim Tutor - but i just wondered if there was any real way to get a handle on how many cards were actually available on the market - maybe listings on ebay over a one year period or something?!?

[birds of paradise2]

It's quite funny with people complaining about the prices in this thread. THIS THREAD is a big source to the speculation.

[Klazam]

Using that number (31000), there is 7750 playsets of candleabras. Loss/ destruction/ hoarding, I'm sure cant account for more than half being missing. That leaves us with around 3800 playsets, which is a lot, I think.

I do not believe that there's only 250 playsets left.

[Michael Keller]

It's quite funny with people complaining about the prices in this thread. THIS THREAD is a big source to the speculation.

Actually the concerns are quite valid and most of the opinions spoken in this thread are based off of real-life price fluctuations as they happen.

[death]

That leaves us with around 3800 playsets, which is a lot, I think.

I do not believe that there's only 250 playsets left.

You might be correct sir, but according to the article Ben said around 250 playsets 'in circulation' specifically.

[jamesh]

'in circulation'

what does that mean - currently avail. on ebay + major online stores?

i wonder where he got that figure, i doubt he did any sort of research on how many were actually avail. from these retailers

[death]

What he meant are those which will be available for sale online or for trade from players' binders in the coming months. Not included are those which have been forgotten or hiding away in some basement or vault, owner is a collector or inactive etc.

I tried hoarding the card since January. Did some research, most online stores didn't really have them in stock. I was willing to pay $55 and stopped when the card reached above $60. 250 playsets feels like an overestimation, it might actually be fewer.

[honestabe]

Unban Drain? lol

You think people are bitching about High Tide NOW......

[dahcmai]

250 playsets? I bet it's fewer. Iron Man Ante was pretty devastating to the amount of cards from Chronicles back. That set pissed off a ton of people and made it more popular. I wish I could find out how many Alpha Islands are left. That would be an interesting one to know since it was the most despised card to get out of Alpha due to the fact it replaced your rare a lot of the time. Shred!

[jamesh]

250 playsets? I bet it's fewer.

so you're saying that out of 31000 cards, 30,000 have been lost, destroyed, held by collectors/players or otherwise unavailable for sale
despite the lure of a grand for a playset
i just don't believe this figure - where did it come from, it seems plucked out of the air

the issue of scarcity is very important to value because people believing that their cards are rarer or more unavailable than they actually are tends to lead to situations where they sit on their cards, rather than selling them (waiting for the big payday) it is this behavior that can lead to price spikes

until i see some hard data on how many Candleabras are actually available, i'm inclined to doubt these low figures

[dahcmai]

I think that because of the era and the nature of that card. It was a crap rare, a restricted crap rare during the time of Iron Man Ante. Not only could you not play with it in tournaments, you could only play 1 in vintage where Workshop was restricted also. So it was total junk and tossed out. No one kept them. Do you hang on to your Mayeal's Arias because they will be worth something someday? Nah, you toss them in the trashcan or to the kids. It's unplayable, untradeable crap. That was Candelabra back then.

During Iron Man ante it was fun to play decks full of crap you didn't want from your trade folder. So we would make decks full of junk rares no one cared about and play Iron Man. How ever many life points you could shove the other person past 0, that's how many cards you got to shred from their deck. You got to go into the deck and pick too. I can attest for around a hundred Candelabras shredded just from myself alone. It was a favorite since no one cared about it and it wasn't worth anything.

Poor Candelabras were so hated. Guess people shouldn't have been casting all those Workshops into Juggernauts and Su Chis to get it knocked out of tournaments.

[death]

When I scoured the internet for the card, SCG was out of stock, there were about 2 playsets on ebay available, and 2-3 copies elsewhere. Of course sellers went pouring in, but I would approximate there were only about 5 playsets sold each month. From January to April that's a miniscule 20 playsets. At this rate, it'll take a year or so before 250 gets circulated. I strongly doubt the availability outside of the states, this is where a big chunk of that number is coming from.

As for the big payday, it has come for me and I just sold my extra copies, being not as greedy as SCG.:tongue:

[jamesh]

I think that because of the era and the nature of that card. It was a crap rare, a restricted crap rare during the time of Iron Man Ante. Not only could you not play with it in tournaments, you could only play 1 in vintage where Workshop was restricted also. So it was total junk and tossed out. No one kept them. Do you hang on to your Mayeal's Arias because they will be worth something someday? Nah, you toss them in the trashcan or to the kids. It's unplayable, untradeable crap. That was Candelabra back then.


that wasn't my experience at all
Candelabra was recognized as a very powerful card - hence the restricting - and within the set it was defo. top five (in no particular order)
factory
workshop
archaeologist
candelabra
coffin
(i'm probably forgetting something - oh strip mine, until reprinting and maybe colossus)
anyway, people weren't throwing their candelabras away, Argothian Pixies yes, candelabra no

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Yeah, Candelabras were never crap rares. They sure weren't $250, but you couldn't pick them up in dollar bins.

[perm]

Mana drain is a niche card, it's just a better counterspell which isn't even played. Do you actually thing it would approach the power level of FoW? it would just be a cool tool to use in certain decks. I think it actually might be what control decks need to help with their issues in legacy, though combo decks would love it as much if not more. Countering a FoW would lead to some nice colorless juice, but what besides that is a card youll expect to counter and give you a ton of mana?

Also I doubt it would come close to the price of tabernacle, which i believe is the most expensive card in legacy (if it isn't I am very curious as to what is)

[Amon Amarth]

Mana drain is a niche card, it's just a better counterspell which isn't even played. Do you actually thing it would approach the power level of FoW? it would just be a cool tool to use in certain decks. I think it actually might be what control decks need to help with their issues in legacy, though combo decks would love it as much if not more. Countering a FoW would lead to some nice colorless juice, but what besides that is a card youll expect to counter and give you a ton of mana?

Also I doubt it would come close to the price of tabernacle, which i believe is the most expensive card in legacy (if it isn't I am very curious as to what is)

You've obviously never played with Mana Drain otherwise you'd never say something so patently absurd. Mana Drain is one of the most brutal tempo swings in the game. The price of Mana Drain would skyrocket if it was unbanned in Legacy. You don't need to counter Fireblasts and Force of Wills to punish your opponent for playing Magic: the Gathering.

[perm]

Mana Drain's ability just pushes it over the edge of being playable, which is more than any other 2cc counter in the entire format can say. If you want to play counterspells in legacy, you need to either have it be 1cc or free. I am not going to lose sleep over people having their ad nauseums or tendrils countered and someone getting 4-5 mana.

[death]

Counter their Ad Naus/Ill-Gotten Gains/Infernal Tutor ASAP, don't wait till they cast Tendrils, it'll kill you.

[GGoober]

Mana Drain's ability just pushes it over the edge of being playable, which is more than any other 2cc counter in the entire format can say. If you want to play counterspells in legacy, you need to either have it be 1cc or free. I am not going to lose sleep over people having their ad nauseums or tendrils countered and someone getting 4-5 mana.

Counterspell is already strong in Legacy. Imagine Counterspell with an ability to give you free mana to win next turn, or put your opponents way behind in the game.

FYI, in Vintage, people have to think twice about FoW'ing against a deck with UU open because having your FoW drained = losing. It's not really the price increase of Drain in the format that will be a hindrance (it would probably easily cost $300-400 a piece), it's the fact that it creates a ton of stalemates in Counterwars, and become a format on dodging and answering Drains i.e. playing Discard etc.

Mana Drain is not borderline playable at all, not even in Vintage.

[Michael Keller]

that wasn't my experience at all
Candelabra was recognized as a very powerful card - hence the restricting - and within the set it was defo. top five (in no particular order)
factory
workshop
archaeologist
candelabra
coffin
(i'm probably forgetting something - oh strip mine, until reprinting and maybe colossus)
anyway, people weren't throwing their candelabras away, Argothian Pixies yes, candelabra no

You're forgetting about one card that was actually banned (http://www.crystalkeep.com/cgi-bin/magicsearch.cgi?cardName=Feldon%27s+Cane) in the now-defunct 1.5 and restricted (http://www.crystalkeep.com/cgi-bin/magicsearch.cgi?cardName=Feldon%27s+Cane) in Vintage.

[jamesh]

You've obviously never played with Mana Drain otherwise you'd never say something so patently absurd. Mana Drain is one of the most brutal tempo swings in the game. The price of Mana Drain would skyrocket if it was unbanned in Legacy. You don't need to counter Fireblasts and Force of Wills to punish your opponent for playing Magic: the Gathering.

QFT!

every now and then some random advocates mana drain for legacy
FORGET it FOOLS
way too powerful - there are so many other cards to be unbanned in legacy before this broken piece (dragon dragon y not?)

[jamesh]

You're forgetting about one card that was actually banned (http://www.crystalkeep.com/cgi-bin/magicsearch.cgi?cardName=Feldon%27s+Cane) in the now-defunct 1.5 and restricted (http://www.crystalkeep.com/cgi-bin/magicsearch.cgi?cardName=Feldon%27s+Cane) in Vintage.

huh? cane?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

QFT!

every now and then some random advocates mana drain for legacy
FORGET it FOOLS
way too powerful - there are so many other cards to be unbanned in legacy before this broken piece (dragon dragon y not?)

Mana Drain might not even be played if it were unbanned. It certainly isn't broken, and God knows control could use some new tools in this format. And before you ask, I used to play when Mana Drain was unbanned in old 1.5, and the only reason people accepted its banning at the time was price tag. Obviously that consideration is out the window now, so...

[ns2973]

Mana Drain might not even be played if it were unbanned. It certainly isn't broken, and God knows control could use some new tools in this format. And before you ask, I used to play when Mana Drain was unbanned in old 1.5, and the only reason people accepted its banning at the time was price tag. Obviously that consideration is out the window now, so...

I was playing in that era too, was decent in the scepter control builds but that was about it.

[Koby]

Seems like a sure fire way to make Gifts Ungiven more played than it is now (0 sightings in the last 18 months at the top tables)

[leegoo]

I hope Dragon was a joke...

... but it will not be unbanned regardless. Being able to just end the game in a draw when you don't have the win in hand in a fast and consistent combo deck is not all that healthy for the format.

What about Memory Jar? I know we all remember how busted it was, but honestly I can't think of it being all that strong in current Legacy with much of the acceleration still banned. (and tinker of course)

Of course there *could* be a completely new deck design that broke it again... just can't come up with what that is at the moment.


BTW - I admit "fringe playable" was an exaggeration (in regards to Drain) I was simply trying to express that it is not immediately considered - like force of will is - in vintage.

[GGoober]

THREAD IS DE-RAILED =====>

Back on topic, what's going to be the fate of Wastelands now? Will we ever see it dropping back to at least $35-40??? There are ongoing EBay auctions for Korean Wastelands (which I'm interested in) and they are now happily sitting at Buy it Nows at $130++. There is no way I am going to pay that much ever. I bought my other 2 Korean Wastelands at $60 and $70 just a month before the price increase and I thought that was a little over the top. It's going to be near impossible to get the MPR Foil and Korean versions for less than $90 any time soon now.

[dahcmai]

Jar, snicker. It's acceleration was Grim Monolith, Key, and Ritual. Umm, those are still around. It didn't rely on tinker much for the eternal versions. It would still be busted as hell.

Mana drain is a joke. I still have mine so I wouldn't mind, but I really wouldn't want to have to play against Welder Slaver that much though.

[jamesh]

THREAD IS DE-RAILED =====>

Back on topic, what's going to be the fate of Wastelands now? Will we ever see it dropping back to at least $35-40??? There are ongoing EBay auctions for Korean Wastelands (which I'm interested in) and they are now happily sitting at Buy it Nows at $130++. There is no way I am going to pay that much ever. I bought my other 2 Korean Wastelands at $60 and $70 just a month before the price increase and I thought that was a little over the top. It's going to be near impossible to get the MPR Foil and Korean versions for less than $90 any time soon now.

if you have a playset of candleabras you won't need to give a shit about wasteland

:p

[leegoo]

Wasteland and Force of Will are (imo) both on shaky ground at the moment... If nothing happens (reprint wise) they will continue to go up, no doubt about it. Force is a bit safer I believe as they have yet to have any form of promo (judge foil, etc) of it as of yet, and generally those type of promo's don't have an effect on the originals value. IF wasteland get's reprinted again, I can't see it continuing to rise, although depending on the availability of the reprint, it may just steady off at $50-$60 and not drop.

Gaea's Cradle is very subtley creeping it's way up as well.

Dual Lands are very likely going to be around $50+ (non-blue) to $100+ (sea's + whatever the other hot U producing ones are at the moment) barring something insane happening. The best *solution* I've heard anyone come up with is a "dual land" that only counts as one type of land, kinda like Bosk (I.E. it produces U/B but only counts as a swamp, etc) to make very strong replacements while still having a substantial amount of difference in power.

[leegoo]

Jar, snicker. It's acceleration was Grim Monolith, Key, and Ritual. Umm, those are still around. It didn't rely on tinker much for the eternal versions. It would still be busted as hell.



However you lose Mana Vault, Vampiric, Mystical, Tinker and YawgWin. Just not sure it would be as dominant as "Broken Jar.dec" was.

[sclabman]

I like the idea of Murmuring Bosk-type of dual lands, but in the end people who have the real ones will still play them and it will likely make a large difference in results. Maybe if Murmering Bosk came into play untapped unconditionally, then the difference would be more or less minimal and able to be built around.

[GGoober]

Why can't people understand that a dual land reprinted with a drawback is a DUAL LAND WITH A DRAWBACK?? There is no such thing as a replacement dual being good enough in Legacy. In a competitive setting, every drawback is going to count or cost you the games, unless the non-ABUR Dual land is better than the original duals in a certain deck e.g. Rainbow lands in TES/Dredge is better than Dual lands in TES/Dredge.

I'm personally worried about the dual land situation myself, at this rate, the duals can only go up since the supply is definitely fixed, and there is no way they can ever reprint them (reserved list), nor can they print a better version of the ABUR Dual lands, because they are simply the best in existence (snow-covered duals would count but good luck on that ever happening).

[leegoo]

@ Metalwalker

Everyone get's that they can't be AS good. However, it's a similar situation to say, wanting to play High Tide right now. Can you build it without Candelabra...yes. And you will win some (quite a few if you are a proficient pilot) games with it. But when another proficient pilot sits down and he has $1200 worth of candles in his deck... well... he should do better. If you want to be the big dog High Tide player...you have to pay to play. Same with "really good but not the same power as the originals" dual lands... you can play them, and be competitive, but at an obvious disadvantage.

It's the closest thing to a solution (if you believe a solution is indeed needed) that is "fair" to people who don't want to spend a lot to play legacy AND to those of us who either chose to do so or have played since the beginning of time... just my opinion of course.

[Humphrey]

A dual with only 1 basictype would be stronger than the old ones, since you dont have to fear hatecards like choke

[GGoober]

@ Metalwalker

Everyone get's that they can't be AS good. However, it's a similar situation to say, wanting to play High Tide right now. Can you build it without Candelabra...yes. And you will win some (quite a few if you are a proficient pilot) games with it. But when another proficient pilot sits down and he has $1200 worth of candles in his deck... well... he should do better. If you want to be the big dog High Tide player...you have to pay to play. Same with "really good but not the same power as the originals" dual lands... you can play them, and be competitive, but at an obvious disadvantage.

It's the closest thing to a solution (if you believe a solution is indeed needed) that is "fair" to people who don't want to spend a lot to play legacy AND to those of us who either chose to do so or have played since the beginning of time... just my opinion of course.

Yeah I totally agree, which was the reason why we're bitching on the whole card price increases in Legacy, because it means that to truly play the OPTIMAL list for a certain deck, you are now priced out. I sit here with almost 90% of my Legacy collection, and it still annoys me because now only the people who are already in Legacy can really play the game (i.e. the people who kept their staples/duals/wastes). Everyone else who wants to kick into the format is now priced out.

Not that we want a million people in the format, but the cost increases to those staples really just happened overnight (overnight = 1-3 weeks aka very very abnormally fast). I have no doubts believing that FoW/Wastelands/Duals should all be worth at least $100+, but I have doubts they are worth this value within such a short period of sudden price shocks.

@Humphrey, yeah that should apply only to the blue duals because I would totally get a playset of those :P Something like Underdrought Sea or Frozen Vanilla Ice-cream or Scorched Island

[Crysthorn]

A dual with only 1 basictype would be stronger than the old ones, since you dont have to fear hatecards like choke
It depends. On the one hand you could dodge Chokes, Submerges or islandwalking merfolk armies, but on the other hand the ability to find any color you need with any fetchland in multicolor decks (i.e. 4C CounterTop, Team America, various Bants, Thresholds or Rocks/Junks) is actually important.

[anonymos]

It depends. On the one hand you could dodge Chokes, Submerges or islandwalking merfolk armies, but on the other hand the ability to find any color you need with any fetchland in multicolor decks (i.e. 4C CounterTop, Team America, various Bants, Thresholds or Rocks/Junks) is actually important.

The ability to find teh color you need with any fetchland would theoretically be built for in a situation like that. We have a full set of fetches to work with alongside the theoretical duals. Sure, your bant deck might need to play polluted delta to get your savannah equivalent (may have gone overboard a bit to make the example, but meh), but it'll still work. Either it'll work or they'll cut a color.

[phonics]

what about fetchable som duals (with maybe cpt if you control more than 1 land instead) or something based on that variant. they would be playable as the first fetch target, or just a replacement for duals altogether in aggro decks or decks that can work off of ~2 lands.

anyways, outside of fow and wastes, has anyone notices a rise in other staples like vial? locally the prices of vials and goyf have skyrocketed as it appears like most of the newer people ive seen have adopt rock or tribal decks (maybe due to the unavailability of u duals and cards like fow).

[KindGrind]

Never seen Top this high, for one.

Makes sense people would fall back on tribal at this point, although even Goblins now isn't cheap at all. Lackeys are on the rise, and Piledrivers aren't easy to come by these days. If you want to keep it "budget", forget about running Ports/Wastes though.

[Octopusman]

Never seen Top this high, for one.

No doubt. Top has always been one of those cards where I'm thinking something along the lines of "oh yeah top, that's like a $2 uncommon". I guess time flies. I really did I double take when I saw one in the case recently. Same goes for SoFI.
I'm still thankful that fetches are reasonable. Yay Zendikar!

Maze of Ith is really expensive now. The last time I looked at that card it was around $12.

I feel if they don't print another viable double land (which they may be afraid to), Ancient Tomb will see a rise. Seems like the Stompy Archetype has been getting a lot of attention lately with all the MUD flying around.
I think that red may see another interesting enchantment or creature at 3cmc (R2 specifically) that will help Dragon Stompy. I think that people will still continue to try to make black stompy work. White/Dutch Stax is a deck that I think could find itself in the Established section soon if it reaches its potential.

Despite a reprint, it seems that Daze is making small gains ($2.99 for NM at SCG). Standstill's cost is surprising me too ($9.99 at SCG for NM).

Surprised to see Torment Grim Lavamancers at $12. But I think it deserves it.

[Mr.C]

A dual with only 1 basictype would be stronger than the old ones, since you dont have to fear hatecards like choke

Very very true. And would make you not vulnerable to Islandwalk if the was the island that taps for green.

And then WotC could spread 20 of these over two blocks and make a lot of money!

[KindGrind]

I feel if they don't print another viable double land (which they may be afraid to), Ancient Tomb will see a rise.

Well, it's already around 10$, which is pretty steep... Not too sure this will rise further.

I picked up a playset of GSZ preetty cheap last week. Love the card, very powerful against Counterbalance, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see this bounce back up when people realize how good that is.

[Pippin]

So it seems that the craze is finally coming to an end (hopefully the doomsayers in other topics will also pick it up).

TnT is no longer buying Wastelands. They are offering $47.50 on NM FoW - they also have both force and wastes in stock
SCG is buying Wastelands at $30, and FoW at $50, and have abundance of both in stock.

[Dragon_Whelp]

I feel if they don't print another viable double land (which they may be afraid to), Ancient Tomb will see a rise. Seems like the Stompy Archetype has been getting a lot of attention lately with all the MUD flying around.
I think that red may see another interesting enchantment or creature at 3cmc (R2 specifically) that will help Dragon Stompy. I think that people will still continue to try to make black stompy work. White/Dutch Stax is a deck that I think could find itself in the Established section soon if it reaches its potential.

Ancient Tomb is not on the Reserved List, so they might reprint it.

But yeah, I agree. Dragon Stompy, at the very least, has been pretty good for me, though a bit inconsistent. If I had a good 3-drop, the deck would become pretty powerful.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Ancient Tomb is not on the Reserved List, so they might reprint it.

But yeah, I agree. Dragon Stompy, at the very least, has been pretty good for me, though a bit inconsistent. If I had a good 3-drop, the deck would become pretty powerful.

QFT. Taurean Mauler just doesn't cut it. I was really hopeful with all the solid red creatures they printed in Zendikar block, but still no dice.

[LegacyInferno]

Even though MTGO isn't really reflective of the paper market too much, in some cases yes, in others not so much. On my twitter feed today i saw one place offering to buy Forces of Will for 120 tickets. I think that is a little extreme considering these are digital copies, but whatever gets you off I guess.

[kusumoto]

Even though MTGO isn't really reflective of the paper market too much, in some cases yes, in others not so much. On my twitter feed today i saw one place offering to buy Forces of Will for 120 tickets. I think that is a little extreme considering these are digital copies, but whatever gets you off I guess.


I find it baffling that they don't just 'reprint' everything on MTGO that is expensive to drive down the costs. What purpose could this serve?

Fake decks should not cost hundreds of dollars. This is exactly why I don't play MTGO anymore.

On topic. What is the recent future looking like for things like The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale and Imperial Recruiter? The cards that were the hot rarities like Candelabra but have seriously cooled down in tournament showings.

[Justin]

Real decks probably shouldn't cost hundreds of dollars either, but what are you gonna do?

[LegacyInferno]

I sold off my Tabernacle the other week. I got 180 for it cash, along with some other cards I sold off. I was surprised that Tabernacle was selling for the same as candelabra, which is reasonable I would surmise, both cards are seriously powerful.

[Finn]

I was surprised that Tabernacle was selling for the same as candelabra, which is reasonable I would surmise, both cards are seriously powerful. I really like the color red, which is reasonable because it is probably my least favorite color.

In other news, my cards are now officially covered under my home owner's insurance plan.

[cdr]

I find it baffling that they don't just 'reprint' everything on MTGO that is expensive to drive down the costs. What purpose could this serve?

Fake decks should not cost hundreds of dollars. This is exactly why I don't play MTGO anymore.

There's actually something of a "MTGO reserved list". Worth Wollpert promised not to reprint cards from ME1 (WTF, right?), so now he doesn't want to put out any more FoWs.

[Rune]

There's actually something of a "MTGO reserved list". Worth Wollpert promised not to reprint cards from ME1 (WTF, right?), so now he doesn't want to put out any more FoWs.

That's truly tragic.

[dahcmai]

I never understood why they just stop making cards for MTGO. It makes it a product not worth getting into if you weren't in from at least Master's Edition1 to grab some of the duals. Why kill your own product? I never got their point of view on that. I probably would play it if it wasn't such an investment for virtual cards now. Waste of money now in my book.

It's like buying a video game for $1000 if you want to play Legacy. Who would buy any video game for that?

[mchainmail]

I never understood why they just stop making cards for MTGO. It makes it a product not worth getting into if you weren't in from at least Master's Edition1 to grab some of the duals. Why kill your own product? I never got their point of view on that. I probably would play it if it wasn't such an investment for virtual cards now. Waste of money now in my book.

It's like buying a video game for $1000 if you want to play Legacy. Who would buy any video game for that?

Except it's a video game with cash tournaments, etc. I'm up something like 100 tix on MODO right now after ~2 months.

[Dragon_Whelp]

Except it's a video game with cash tournaments, etc. I'm up something like 100 tix on MODO right now after ~2 months.

Which means a lot of players are down some tix.

[SpikeyMikey]

Tix aren't cash. Tix are tix. You can put them up on eBay for cash, but you can do that with cards too.

[Koby]

Which means a lot of players are down some tix.

This is no different than how ANY tournament works. Except perhaps on MTGO you can play without pants.

[GGoober]

Hey guys remember SCG was just sold out of 30+ LEDs at $30.00 $40.00 last week? Check them now, $50 listed with 13 in stock. Pretty fast stocking up there ;)

[KindGrind]

I think they had been at 40$ for ages. Were they really down to 30$?

Side note, it will be interesting to see what happens to Hunted Horror post Torpor Orb.

A quick look at eBay completed auctions for the black rare: more than 20 playsets were bought today only. (!)

[lordofthepit]

I think they had been at 40$ for ages. Were they really down to 30$?

Side note, it will be interesting to see what happens to Hunted Horror post Torpor Orb.

A quick look at eBay completed auctions for the black rare: more than 20 playsets were bought today only. (!)

I doubt they were down to $30 since they were well above $30 on eBay.

[Octopusman]

I think we'll see price increases for LED in the future. The only thing that scares me about LED is that it's powerful enough to reasonably consider that it may be banned at some point. I hope they don't print anything that will cause this as I like LED.

It seems like they're printing lots of useful hate. Ideally, all metas could be put in check (remember Tsabo's Web?) and players could learn to overcome powerful strategies. Unfortunately, my faith in this line of thought is tarnished by the banning of Survival.

Keep your eye on LED and if you ever thought about picking them up, I'd do it now. It can only go up in my opinion.

[anonymos]

This is no different than how ANY tournament works. Except perhaps on MTGO you can play without pants.

You can play unglued tournaments without jeans. Does that count?

On a more real topic...are people really trying to pull off Torpor Orb and Hunted Horror. It seems way too much into the danger of cool things. It may give you enough toys with Dreadnought though.

[Plague Sliver]

You can play unglued tournaments without jeans. Does that count?

On a more real topic...are people really trying to pull off Torpor Orb and Hunted Horror. It seems way too much into the danger of cool things. It may give you enough toys with Dreadnought though.

Yeah, a 2 card combo needs to be more powerful than that...I'm thinking CB-Top or Painter-Grindstone as an example here...

[death]

This thread is getting derailed.

In other news:
WOw, Show and Tell is now really $25 a pop? I got mine for $2.50 each just more than a year ago. Good thing it's not on the reserved list.

[Amon Amarth]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it is. Every rare before Masques Block is one the list, I think.

[cdr]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it is. Every rare before Masques Block is one the list, I think.

Hahaha, if only the reserved list were that simple. Masques forward has no reserved cards, but only a few rares in Tempest and Saga block were reserved - so Show and Tell is not on it (http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/products/reprintpolicy).

[dahcmai]

Weird, I figured that one would be there, but I just had to check it anyway and sure enough. It seems like a reserve list thing. It's too bad they kept a bunch of that stuff on there. Some of those cards are just plain fun and never had a shot of being in standard, but would be great if reprinted today.

So has anyone noticed anything that New Phyrexia is affecting yet? I haven't really caught anything other than I noticed some slight price drops on a few of the lately overhyped items (swords, waste, and such).

[Tammit67]

I doubt they were down to $30 since they were well above $30 on eBay.

I got mine on eBay for $25-30 sometime around December. They were on the rise from $25 from the month before IIRC.

[Amon Amarth]

Hahaha, if only the reserved list were that simple. Masques forward has no reserved cards, but only a few rares in Tempest and Saga block were reserved - so Show and Tell is not on it (http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/products/reprintpolicy).

WOW. You're right. What a fucking cluster fuck of bullshit. How and the fuck does this make any sense?

[Whippoorwill]

So has anyone noticed anything that New Phyrexia is affecting yet? I haven't really caught anything other than I noticed some slight price drops on a few of the lately overhyped items (swords, waste, and such).

Only thing I've noticed so far is Hunted Horror. SCG is out of stock on non-foil at $2.99 and has 4 foils in stock for $5.99. Meanwhile Channel Fireball still has a Japanese non-foil in stock at $0.49 (the normal price before Torpor Orb was spoiled).

[Justin]

I wonder how high Mental Mistep will go. It looks to be starting at $4 or maybe it will go a bit higher before the release of the set. I think that there will be a high demand initially for this card, as Legacy players will want their set ASAP. However, MM probably won't get played much in Standard, where one-drops are not so crucial. As more product is opened, the price of MM should drop in the coming months.

[KindGrind]

Picked up a cheap preorder playset of Mental Misstep sooner today. I doubt this will be worth more than 5-6$ each ever, but this shows amazing potential for Legacy. We never know though, regarding price. This is in a rather small set, will be drafted less, etc. Will be interesting to see how it goes, but I'm guessing it will become a staple.

[Tha Gunslinga]

I wouldn't expect Mental Misstep to be worth more than $2-3 in a few months, considering that Spell Snare is $3. I'm really not seeing it at $4, which is what it's currently ebaying for.

[jamesh]

eventually - years away - it should have a much higher value than snare
no reason it can't be vial level

[Amon Amarth]

eventually - years away - it should have a much higher value than snare
no reason it can't be vial level

I have a hard time imagining that. People build decks around Aether Vial. If you don't answer it, it can shut down entire strategies and gives you a big advantage against control and aggro decks. If you don't "answer" a MM you get 1 for 1'd. Which is nothing to write home about.

[jamesh]

I have a hard time imagining that. People build decks around Aether Vial. If you don't answer it, it can shut down entire strategies and gives you a big advantage against control and aggro decks. If you don't "answer" a MM you get 1 for 1'd. Which is nothing to write home about.

the value of vial (like everything else) is based on supply/demand
if misstep becomes required in the same way force is, then it could hit a similar level to vial - but of course that's many years away

[kiblast]

Could someone please explain me this (http://cgi.ebay.it/Promo-4x-Wasteland-FOIL-NM-Mtg-Magic-/250800210059?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a64db808b#ht_2841wt_1139) and this (http://cgi.ebay.it/MTG-Magic-4x-Foil-Wasteland-Playset-Player-Rewards-/180657018487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0fff5677#ht_1527wt_1139)?

I understand that the printing of the new foil version probably made the older one skyrocket...but an average of 450$ for a Wasteland playset is insane.

[yawg07]

Those are buy iy now prices, though. The cards didn't actually sell for that.

[kiblast]

Those are buy iy now prices, though. The cards didn't actually sell for that.

I know. I just found disturbing the fact that the general trend among sellers/shops is to ask that much for 4 foil Wastelands.

Ps: Current bin for single is 110$. Lol.

[Atwa]

Could someone please explain me this (http://cgi.ebay.it/Promo-4x-Wasteland-FOIL-NM-Mtg-Magic-/250800210059?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a64db808b#ht_2841wt_1139) and this (http://cgi.ebay.it/MTG-Magic-4x-Foil-Wasteland-Playset-Player-Rewards-/180657018487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0fff5677#ht_1527wt_1139)?

I understand that the printing of the new foil version probably made the older one skyrocket...but an average of 450$ for a Wasteland playset is insane.

New foil version?

[Aggro_zombies]

New foil version?
A judge promo, I think.

[Sims]

http://cgi.ebay.com/WASTELAND-FOIL-x1-MtG-Magic-Judge-Promo-NM-/180652679031?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0fbd1f77

yeah, Judge promo reward. I'd prefer the old version.

[JamieW89]

I sold my Judge Wastelands for like $50 each only a few months ago :(

[cdr]

Again, that's a BIN. Probably not going to sell for that.

[Dragon_Whelp]

http://cgi.ebay.com/WASTELAND-FOIL-x1-MtG-Magic-Judge-Promo-NM-/180652679031?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0fbd1f77

yeah, Judge promo reward. I'd prefer the old version.

Same here. Looking through the pimp thread, I have to wonder why English non-foil original expansion is not more popular, since that's my preference. Guess it's too easy to get. Ah well. Most foreign stuff looks horrible and sounds even worse when you can read it (Especially German), but people still buy it for insane prices.

Ie.: People who want expensive stuff don't care what is cool or looks good, they just want the stuff that costs the most money.

[dahcmai]

Well, latest trends are weird.

Up

Hunted Horror - I guess that one had to happen with Torpor Orb. Still strikes me as weird. Eh, maybe someone can make soemthing out of it. It is huge after all.

Foil EDH generals - They are now starting to go really crazy. Asuza, Azami, Zur, and other fairly busted ones are getting pretty insane.

Jace vs Chandra duel decks - Yes, really.
http://cgi.ebay.com/MTG-Jace-vs-Chandra-ENGLISH-factory-sealed-Magic-/130512477428?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e63265cf4

Go frigging figure. And that's the cheapest one on there. It's being bid up to that point w 3 days to go. Not real sure why it's so popular especially when you can get Japanese so much cheaper. So much for Japanese pimping here.


Divine vs Demonic duel decks - http://cgi.ebay.com/MTG-Divine-Vs-Demonic-Duel-Deck-Factory-Sealed-/130511223758?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e63133bce

Choke! Ok, I know people want the Demonic tutor in it, but seriously? Guess it's time to buy up all the ones at my store for cheap.

Oh those are just BINs you say. The completed ones aren't much better.


Demonic Tutor - going down? I was watching them just to pick up a few for trading among the huge EDH crowd I have around here. It's been steadily losing value lately. I have been picking them up for around $6 a shot for Revised at the worst. Hmmm, weird huh? I checked the beta ones out of curiosity and they are dropping as well. No more $80 betas. You're lucky to get $60 now. Did something happen here that I missed? That card is way too much of an EDH staple.

That's just the ones I noticed lately. I'll check back in later as usual.

[ivanpei]

Is MTG getting really expensive in every damn format or what (except vintage)? I understand Mythics and the standard prices but EDH? I think that the fact that Wizards recognizes it as an official format now and that everybody acknowledges that it is not a passing fad, the EDH staple prices are going CRAZY (especially foils).

I had to pay 35 dollars for a Foil Sakashima from ABU.

Also some crazy numbers:
Foil Bribery= 40 dollars. Foil Treachery= 50 dollars. Foil Karmic Guide= 100 dollars.

Is that insane or what? I have the Treachery and Bribery but am still missing the Guide. Looks like I'm never going to be able to get a copy of that.