[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

[GGoober]

I had to pay 35 dollars for a Foil Sakashima from ABU. Is that insane or what? Foil bribery= 40 dollars. Foil Treachery= 50 dollars. Foil Karmic Guide= 100 dollars.

This. ABU is WAY overpriced. Sometimes I wonder how they even sell cards. I would wait/hunt on forums/ebay for good deals.

[GGoober]

I had to pay 35 dollars for a Foil Sakashima from ABU. Is that insane or what? Foil bribery= 40 dollars. Foil Treachery= 50 dollars. Foil Karmic Guide= 100 dollars.

This. ABU is WAY overpriced. Sometimes I wonder how they even sell cards. I would wait/hunt on forums/ebay for good deals.

[ivanpei]

Unfortunately I'm all the way over in Asia, so I can't snipe stuff one by one from different dealers. The shipping would kill me. Getting them all from a single source is much cheaper. :( If I was in the US/Europe, yeah definitely I'd snipe on ebay. ABU has a mark up of like 20% or more on top of the Market price. In exchange for combined shipping, speed and security, I guess its ok. The last shipment my friend ordered on Friday reached the mailbox on Monday. 3 Days to get from the US to Malaysia? Pretty quick shipping from them and in great condition.

Otherwise, man their cards are expensive. It's hard to get foils any other way though. Most of the bigger sites like Troll and Toad/SCG sell out of Foils really quickly.

[GGoober]

Gotcha there, yeah forgot you're not in EU/USA I lived in Singapore for 13 years :) Will be visiting sometime this year so I'll check out SEAsia again :)

[jamesh]

100 for karmic guide is double what you'd pay on ebay - shipping can't be that expensive
better to buy expensive cards like this through an auction site or by trading
i think these edh prices are pretty crazy since it isn't a format you can play competitively
however, the most costly cards are ones that overlap, like SOFI, if a card sees play in vintage/legacy AND edh, it tends to be super-expensive
there needs to be more inventive deck building in edh so we don't always see the same combo cards - guide/kiki-jiki etc. - being run
hopefully wizards will reprint some of the more expensive edh cards as they introduce commander

[Dragon_Whelp]

Jace vs Chandra duel decks - Yes, really.
http://cgi.ebay.com/MTG-Jace-vs-Chandra-ENGLISH-factory-sealed-Magic-/130512477428?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e63265cf4

Go frigging figure. And that's the cheapest one on there. It's being bid up to that point w 3 days to go. Not real sure why it's so popular especially when you can get Japanese so much cheaper. So much for Japanese pimping here.

That's... What? That's just... Does this mean the one JvC Rakdos Pit Dragon from my playset is suddenly the cool one instead of being the red-headed stepchild?

I'd take the Japanese over the English any day, just for the weird, yet kinda cute manga-ish Walkers' art.

[TheAardvark]

The JvC decks were at least $60+ before the Japanese one was even released, so that isn't too recent. I still don't really know why.

[jamied1981]

This is ridiculous, this is a set of four foil Chinese mental misstep
http://cgi.ebay.ca/FOIL-CHINESE-MENTAL-MISSTEP-X4-NEW-PHYREXIA-magic-MTG-/380335864587?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588dc8bb0b#ht_1991wt_976

[GGoober]

It's called n00bs with too much money. It's not even German/Jap/Russian.

[Mr.C]

And Splinter Twin just went through the fucking roof. I got 12 offers in the last 24 hours for mine on MOTL.

[dahcmai]

Well, that was to be expected. The new combo deck in standard did that. They made that deceiver which basically enabled the extended deck in standard. Turn 4 wins in standard are nothing to ignore. Especially, when it stomps Caw Blade and RUG into the ground with ease.

Expect Pyromancer Ascensions to take a small rise also. I was playing around with the tester version last night and it's silly good. You can win on turn 4 pretty easily and like Chapin said even when someone taps 2 for a Stoneforge with a mana open for spell pierce, they just lost.

It's nothing that will affect Legacy though other than making Gideon, Jace, and the Sword of Feast and famine drop a bit since caw Blade is getting dethroned pretty hard.

[sdematt]

What combo's with this card?

-Matt

[TheArchitect]

Deceiver Exarch (http://magiccards.info/nph/en/33.html)

Its arguably even better than pestermite despite costing 1 more since it is unboltable and can tap down an opponent's card if needed.

[cdr]

Deceiver Exarch (http://magiccards.info/nph/en/33.html)

Its arguably even better than pestermite despite costing 1 more since it is unboltable and can tap down an opponent's card if needed.

Er... Exarch costs the same as Pestermite, and Pestermite can tap or untap anything where Exarch can only untap yours or tap opponents'.

Not saying anything about which is better, but read the other card before you make comparisons.

[Royal Ass.]

Forcefield is a card that has probably been the same price since literally 1994. I've been wondering for awhile if this card is going to spike up in price given its limited supply and that fact that it seems like it is pretty playable in Commander. I don't play Commander so I could be wrong, but I thought I would get some other opinions on this. There don't seem to be many copies of the card floating around on the web. I feel like if Diamond Valley is going up in price due to Commander, some other older cards like Forcefield that have Commander potential could see a similar trend.

[death]

I really dig the layering Dan Frazier did to depict the 'field'. Next to his Mox Jet, this artwork is hella amazing. If I had the cash I'd frame a beta one and put it next to my bed.

sidenote: the Icy Manipulator by Douglas Schuler looks amazing too in Unlimited WB-frame.

[Royal Ass.]

I agree that the Forcefield art is some of my favorite. I have always admired the card and just picked an Unlimited one up on ebay for $60. I had thought it would be more money than that so was pleasantly surprised. It's a card I remember playing against in tournaments back in '94 but was too expensive for me to own when I was a little kid, so there is a bit of nostalgia for me picking one up now when I can afford it. And I really feel like the price of the card has stayed the same as back then more or less! It was tempting to get a BB version but I didn't feel like spending double for that.

[Royal Ass.]

Well.... Guess who just talked themselves into buying a NM Beta Forcefield on ebay?......

[Philipp2293]

Better watch Battle of Wits, guys.

[death]

Better watch Battle of Wits, guys.

I doubt it. It's always been a bad deck.




Well.... Guess who just talked themselves into buying a NM Beta Forcefield on ebay?......

Gratzies!

[Philipp2293]

Uh, I haven't been all that serious about it ;)

[TheArchitect]

Er... Exarch costs the same as Pestermite, and Pestermite can tap or untap anything where Exarch can only untap yours or tap opponents'.

Not saying anything about which is better, but read the other card before you make comparisons.

Herpderp I need to not impulsively post after I take nyquil, besides the actual card thats involved, I don't think I said a single thing that is true.


Expect Pyromancer Ascensions to take a small rise also. I was playing around with the tester version last night and it's silly good. You can win on turn 4 pretty easily and like Chapin said even when someone taps 2 for a Stoneforge with a mana open for spell pierce, they just lost.
I would love to see that deck do well. It might make me actually care about standard.

[Finn]

Don't get too excited about Force Field. It really is not all that powerful.

[sdematt]

Forcefields have been and always will be expensive, nostalgic cards. They're decent in EDH, but not so great in constructed eternal formats.

-Matt

[Royal Ass.]

Yeah I understand Force Field is not constructed viable. My interest of the card is driven largely from a nostalgic perspective, plus I think it would be pretty pimp in the EDH deck I'm brewing. That being said, I think I might try the card out in my LandStill deck, at least in the sideboard I think it could be decent. In some cases it seems like it could be better than Humility.

[dahcmai]

It's not as good as you would think in play. Try it and you'll see. It just seems, meh. Not sure why it seems bleh, but it does. Even in EDH where it should shine it isn't as great as you would hope. Sad really, I always loved the card.

[jamesh]

Don't get too excited about Force Field. It really is not all that powerful.

the problem with forcefield (one word) has always been that its mana hunger (keeping sources free to activate it) is contrary to the types of deck that want to run it - i.e. control builds that need to keep mana free for counterspells and manipulative draw spells like brainstorm

moat or humility are far better because they shut down the creatures and let the control player keep mana free for counterspells (to protect the moat for example)

so yeah, just for nostalgia value

[Shabbaman]

It doesn't have much Legacy impact, but I noticed that Primeval Titan (http://blacklotusproject.com/cards/Magic+2011/Primeval+Titan/) is losing value.

[Dragon_Whelp]

So Gaea's Cradle and Wasteland are still going up...

[Tha Gunslinga]

Really? They look like they've been going down over the last week or so.

[r3dd09]

SCG has them back up at 60 for nm again, last week they were 50.

They're sold out of NM as well, just an fyi.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Cradles are ebaying as low as $42-45.

[Finn]

If you don't have Cradles, I would buy them now. A card like that will always be good, and only get better as more creatures are printed.

[dahcmai]

Gaea's Cradle is always a good investment. It's on the reserve list and a particular staple for tabletop players and EDH. It's not likely they will ever print something as strong again also even in green. I would highly recommend picking them up anytime you see one in a trade folder.

Splinter Twin up to $10. Knew that was coming. Anyway, the release card Phyrexian Metamorph is actually going to be used. If you remember Project X from standard during Time Spiral, you'll remember that Saffi combo? well, it's possible with this new guy with the Relic Warder and a Soul's Attendant. Not great, but people will want to try it. It's also EDH gold so best to grab some before it goes over the $5 mark. It won't go too high due to it being a release card, but it's a safe one to grab for sheer trade value if anything.

Bloodchief Ascension is crap. Dump them now. Oh wait, it always was. Anyway, dump them now while people are still paying too much for them. Mindcrank is cute, but junk.

Transmute Artifact is starting to get noticed and I have seen a bunch of tester decks with them. You were warned and knew it was coming.

The new infect 1 drop elf makes Legacy infect better, but it's still unstable. Bah. I was really hoping. Cool, for those who forget what it's capable of doing.

Dispatch. don't bother. Affinity does not need Swords. Sounded good on paper. Crap in practice. Maybe someone will find a decent use, but current Affinity itself isn't going to be packing it. Takes away from the aggro too much.

Tezzeret's Gambit - I have to admit I am impressed in a way. Standard playable for sure. Night's Whisper in Legacy is already meh, but this is blue after all and proliferate has some odd interactions. Maybe, but probably not.

Gitaxian Probe - Ummm, yeah. Get some. This is soooo worth it. I really kind of thought this would be a bleh card until I had proxied up ones playing it for fun. It's actually pretty damned good. I mean Standard, Extended, Legacy, and probably Vintage good. It's always been pretty hot to see someone's hand to know how to play a certain way. It's some good stuff to do it for nothing more than 2 life. No loss of card, no loss of mana is a big deal. I really, really like this card. I'm getting foils. If you're a calculating person who likes to plan turns in advance and make every move with precision, you will love this thing.

Maze of Ith. It's due. Time to spike Maze.

[r3dd09]

talking financial magic gets me hot an bothered ;)

friend picked up 1x playset of twins and 1 foil playset of twins for 20 bucks this past week. profit much.

[Royal Ass.]

I got lucky and picked up a Sword of Fire and Ice today for $15 from a vender at the pre-release. It's heavily played but works and looks fine in a sleeve. I was happy cause I had already written off ever paying $30+ for that thing.

Also, there was another vender that had a Maze of Ith in a case for $25. I tipped a friend off about it who needed one. He went to buy the card and when he handed the guy the money he had his boss ring it up, who I think looked up the card quickly and he was like, "oh wait, this is now $40." My friend was like, yeah you will never get my business again. It really pissed me off. Breach of contract.

[Royal Ass.]

So I have finally come around to making an EDH deck after being told by everyone how amazing it is. I'm actually pretty excited about the deck I'm putting together.

That being said, a lot of attention was drawn to EDH/Commander when Wizards announced that they would be selling precons. Prior to that, interest had been growing steadily. After the precon announcement a lot of websites started writing articles about Commander and gave a lot of attention to the format. EDH staples have been rising.

I feel like there is going to be another big wave of price increases on EDH staples - after the Precons go on sale. Once the precons go on sale, within 6 months of that taking place I predict a very substantial increase on EDH staples. Basically the number of EDH players is going to increase more significantly than anything we have seen. First people will buy the precons, but many will get interested in the format and want to build their own decks. They will realize that they need all the same staples that everyone else is wanting too.

I have been ebaying and placing orders on online retailers over the past week to pick up the cards for my EDH deck and have been surprised at how my of the cards are out of stock or are relatively expensive - and I'm not even talking about foils. I am glad that I'm getting most of this done before the precons go on sale and literally thousands more people get into the format.

I would recommend that if you plan on getting into EDH, do it soon before the format explodes after the precons hit the market.

What are others' thoughts on this? Am I overstating the potential increase in popularity and price? I really feel like there could be an unprecedented jump in card prices and scarcity for EDH staples shortly after the precons go on sale, similar to that of the recent Legacy staples increases.

[honestabe]

I think you're spot on, the same thing happened on MODO, when they released the Legacy pre-cons and the duals got reprinted in Master's Edition IV. Tarmogoyf jumped from 15-20 to 28-32 and is now in the 40-50 range. Wasteland went from 25-ish to 60, all because the events attracted so many new players.

Hopefully, it will open WoTC's eyes regarding the oppressive price and rarity of eternal staples

[Dragon_Whelp]

What are others' thoughts on this? Am I overstating the potential increase in popularity and price? I really feel like there could be an unprecedented jump in card prices and scarcity for EDH staples shortly after the precons go on sale, similar to that of the recent Legacy staples increases.

No, you are right about how much influence EDH has on the secondary market.

I still can't believe a pretend format holds this kind of sway over that stuff. It's ridiculous.

[ivanpei]

No, you are right about how much influence EDH has on the secondary market.

I still can't believe a pretend format holds this kind of sway over that stuff. It's ridiculous.

Stuff like duplicant, Solemn simulacrum, Maze of Ith and Sensei's Top are fetching ridiculous prices already. With the easy accessibility of the Pre Cons, newbies will be hunting for staples like those and they are definitely going to take off. Sol ring is already 10-15USD and it's soldly used in EDH (vintage too, but still). I'm sandbagging my EDH pimp to release later. I also think the Judge Foil Demonics are undervalued at 50 USD. It's sold out everywhere and every pimp black deck needs it. Another think I think is gonna rise is Mana Crypt. It's been hovering @ 50++ for a long time and those things are really really hard to find.

[mchainmail]

Stuff like duplicant, Solemn simulacrum, Maze of Ith and Sensei's Top are fetching ridiculous prices already. With the easy accessibility of the Pre Cons, newbies will be hunting for staples like those and they are definitely going to take off. Sol ring is already 10-15USD and it's soldly used in EDH (vintage too, but still). I'm sandbagging my EDH pimp to release later. I also think the Judge Foil Demonics are undervalued at 50 USD. It's sold out everywhere and every pimp black deck needs it. Another think I think is gonna rise is Mana Crypt. It's been hovering @ 50++ for a long time and those things are really really hard to find.

Mana Crypt has moved from $40 recently though...

Set Foil Sensei's Divining Tops are criminally undervalued... $35 right now...

/ Owns 4.

[ivanpei]

Mana Crypt has moved from $40 recently though...

Set Foil Sensei's Divining Tops are criminally undervalued... $35 right now...

/ Owns 4.

Agreed, I have 4 too, still need 1 more for my EDH, the FTV ones are ugly! I got them at 30$. On another note, Sensei's top @ 15-20 for NM is pretty high!

[DTC]

Agreed, I have 4 too, still need 1 more for my EDH, the FTV ones are ugly! I got them at 30$. On another note, Sensei's top @ 15-20 for NM is pretty high!

Yeah i remember trading with a guy a week after legacy price spikes. I hadn't been watching the mtg market for about a month due to an illness and came back. A guy had one and i was pulling out his staples. When I did here were the values:

Counterbalance is like $7, Polluted Delta is $22, Sensei's top is $7-8?

The guy wanted 8 for the balance, i said okay, and the delta was fine, but i suddenly became a three headed giant in the room when he heard how i valued his top. A few people who were around suddenly said "Dude, check the price on top, that card went way up recently." - i ended up not trading for the top at the time because i felt its spike was too sudden and i wanted a playset so a singleton would only help for edh possibilities.

Looking back on it now, if it doesn't get reprinted in the precons we'll probably see tops hit $20 before the year's over.

FWIW i wouldn't stock up on common/uncommon edh staples like top, sol ring, lightning greaves, or any other similar cards. WOTC is free to reprint these and could very well do so in the precons to help get more sales from the people who want the staples. Sol Ring is only legal in vintage otherwise so it's not a card people will cry over being reprinted (it hasn't been reprinted in a non-pimp form since revised), but it's also a card that if they reprint in one precon gives it a huge advantage over the others, and it's not something they'd reprint for all 5 so it's possible they may not print it. Greaves has had reprints already, which means they're not against putting more out there, it's not exactly a card that people will get in a twist over, but it's also been reprinted which means they may use their slots for something else.

What could happen is have one uncommon staple in each one as a form of balance. One deck will get top, another gets ring, another gets greaves, another gets skullclamp, and the last one gets something like strip mine (or dare i say, wasteland? But more likely tectonic edge) as a single staple in each and to drive sales towards them for those key cards also (or so people have to buy all 5 to get their hardcore edh staples)

[lorddotm]

Agreed, I have 4 too, still need 1 more for my EDH, the FTV ones are ugly! I got them at 30$. On another note, Sensei's top @ 15-20 for NM is pretty high!

Got my set for 15. Like a boss.

[dahcmai]

I've been buying up boxes of Kamigawa since tops were uncommons in that set and I always thought that was a little silly charging that much for that card, but whatever.

EDH is having a huge bearing on prices anymore. Try and buy a foil Azami or Asuza right now. Some of the older generals that are worth playing are silly too. Sisay is one of note. Kind of glad I have most of the mono colored ones in foil on accident.

Here's an odd trend. I wanted a few more Demonic Tutors for EDH so I decided to go bid on some. I tend to put my bidding based on how much completed auctions go for. $6 was what ended up being the average. How did that go down? Those used to be solid $10 cards almost no matter what. I ended up getting 3 of them for $4 average overall. That seems wrong, but that's what people were getting them for. The ones I picked up were some non-minty Revised ones and not perfect, but still. The Divine vs Demonic one sure is going for a ton though.

[sdematt]

Even Beta copies have dropped like stones. Previously 80-90$ Beta Tutors are now in the 60's and 70's. Not sure what's happening here.

-Matt

[jamesh]

there are so many options (prints) for DT and it is only ever played as a singleton in a couple of formats so it's never going to have much of a value (unless its super-collectable like summer of course)

[(nameless one)]

Speaking of SDT, I got mine when Kamigawa came out. I though it was like a budget Scroll Rack (and at that time, Scroll Racks were $7-10 each, which was pretty expensive back in the day). I guess I got lucky.

I got my Counterbalance at $5 each, and I though I got ripped at that point (this was last summer).

[ivanpei]

I also think the the Judge foil demonic is the "pimp of choice" since it's foil. Beta ones have less Wow factor I guess. BTW, how much do you think a foil Karn PW will end up stabilizing? SCG has them @ 80 usd sold out, and ebay ones are up to 90 USD. I think It'll drop eventually but not by much. I think normal karn will stabilize 15-20 and Foil ones anywhere between 50-70.

On another note, it's a staple in EVERY edh deck. It's recurring colourless removal. Every EDH deck wants it, even more so than Jace TMS! It's the most playable Walker for EDH so far. IMO foil Karns will never drop below 50. I've seen one, it looks SICK in foil.

[SilentHill]

Hello,

I did a google search and I stumbled upon this thread/forum.

I quit playing MTG years ago, but I have a lot of the stuff that is "hot" right now. I Played from Ice Age to Apocalypse and I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice as to what commons/uncommons are "hot" from this block? My cousin helped me out a little bit he said Priest of Titania were selling for $3/$4 a piece on eBay. I have like 15 of them. (I bought a lot of the urza's block. Have the entire set of Saga)

I know brainwash is worth a couple bucks a piece too and probably voltic key. Any other cards that were once considered junk rares or uncommons / commons I might have lying around that I could probably sell?

Thanks!

edit: also is there a better place to sell cards than eBay?

[kusumoto]

Hello,

I did a google search and I stumbled upon this thread/forum.

I quit playing MTG years ago, but I have a lot of the stuff that is "hot" right now. I Played from Ice Age to Apocalypse and I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice as to what commons/uncommons are "hot" from this block? My cousin helped me out a little bit he said Priest of Titania were selling for $3/$4 a piece on eBay. I have like 15 of them. (I bought a lot of the urza's block. Have the entire set of Saga)

I know brainwash is worth a couple bucks a piece too and probably voltic key. Any other cards that were once considered junk rares or uncommons / commons I might have lying around that I could probably sell?

Thanks!

edit: also is there a better place to sell cards than eBay?

Any legendary lands you see are money. As far as uncommons go someone else could touch on that.

Other than ebay there is magic traders (http://forums.magictraders.com/Ultimate.cgi) for selling. They can help with individual pricing questions too.

[Mr.C]

Ice Age block:

Brainstorm, Baron Sengir, Merchant Scroll, Force of Will

Mirage Block:

Enlightened/Worldly/Mystical Tutor, Elephant Grass

Tempest Block:

Ancient Tomb, Wasteland, Crystalline Sliver, Lotus Petal, Price of Progress

there's more, but I gotta go :p

[TheArchitect]

What I do when I am drafting an old set and just want to keep an eye out for money uncommons/rares that I might not normally think are worth anything is use http://deckbox.org/games/mtg/cards. It's simple but effective; just do an advanced search a few sets at a time and then make them organize by price. The prices listed there are from stores and not quite what you should expect on ebay, but generally a bit lower than the lowest end prices is realistically what you can sell that card for ebay. That will give you a good sense of which cards are worth the time of selling and roughly what you could get for them on ebay.

[DTC]

With ebay too you have to sell as playsets to actually get close to the prices you want, and you still won't get very close to retail on cards worth under $5.

Force of Will, Wasteland, Ancient Tomb, Lotus Petal, Priest of Titania, Mother of Runes, etc are all worth a couple bucks or a lot more than that from those periods. I think Dream Halls was an uncommon too?

Submerges, Brainstorms, Dazes, Diabolic Edicts, etc - these will be a dollar bill here and there also a piece, so good to sell in sets on ebay, but they're also so low end you may just want to throw them in the bulk if you have like 12 of each or more since the ebay fees would eat you alive.

You can try selling on MTG sites but players will want them much cheaper than retail so you'll either get ebay fees without the prices or a bit less depending on the card, and it won't be a fast move at all.

[SilentHill]

alright cool! thanks a bunch I think I have a good start but if anyone can think of any more it would be awesome:

I found:

17x Brainstorm
11x Priest of Titania
5x daze
1x Goblin Lackey
8x unglued lands
4x mother of runes
4x rancor
4x tinker
7x lotus petal
2x force of will (gold bordered world edition)

plus a ton of misc rares i found were worth something (show and tell, metalworker, grim monolith, dustbowl, tangle wire, Doomsday, 4x signed rishadan port, DCI Promo Gaea's cradle + wasteland + Damnation)

[Mr.C]

Gold-Bordered is worth a fraction of the regular, though.

[SilentHill]

Gold-Bordered is worth a fraction of the regular, though.

Yea they are like $15/ piece on eBay.. I have a set of 4 alliances ones in mint condition but I don;t want to separate my vintage deck. We've been through too much together lol.

[Dragon_Whelp]

Ice Age block:

Brainstorm, Baron Sengir, Merchant Scroll, Force of Will

Homelands isn't part of the Ice Age block.

[pw709]

Yea they are like $15/ piece on eBay.. I have a set of 4 alliances ones in mint condition but I don;t want to separate my vintage deck. We've been through too much together lol.

About half of that, judging by the last slew of auctions.

[danyul]

If you aren't in any rush to dump the cards, it's worth noting that this shit is not going down in price any time soon. So it never hurts to take your time. If I had had more foresight and patience when I was selling my stuff I would have made an extra $400 easy.

[Octopusman]

If you aren't in any rush to dump the cards, it's worth noting that this shit is not going down in price any time soon. So it never hurts to take your time. If I had had more foresight and patience when I was selling my stuff I would have made an extra $400 easy.

When I was in high school in 1995 a friend of mine acquired a box of Revised. Some years passed and he still had it sealed. I asked him if he wanted to open it or sell it. He said that he was going to save it until he could sell it for $10,000. I laughed my ass off!
He still has it, sealed.

Maybe when we're 80 he'll be getting the last laugh...!


What's hilarious to me about Magic is when people say "if you ever sell, you could get $x back", but they also say that they could never part with the cards. You never make the money if you don't sell!
I have sold, but I doubt I would ever again. I'm in a situation again where I have too many extra cards lying around. It's all getting traded in for any amount of store credit I can get for it. You'd be amazing what kind of satisfaction you can have from having a small, finely organized, collection.

They say what does up must come down. I think it seems that since the reserved list exists, the game really exists for collectors whether I like it or not so it's safe to say that given inflation and increased value in out of print cards, mtg will continue to be kind to your collection... unless you play standard, ;)

[Mr.C]

Homelands isn't part of the Ice Age block.

Coldsnap is an aberration.

[Dragon_Whelp]

Coldsnap is an aberration.

...And Homelands isn't?

Besides, you're still wrong.

[lordofthepit]

It didn't take long guys. English, non-foil Mental Misstep is now $419 on TheManaCrypt. Get them while you still can: http://www.themanacrypt.com/products/search?query=mental+misstep

[Dragon_Whelp]

It didn't take long guys. English, non-foil Mental Misstep is now $419 on TheManaCrypt. Get them while you still can: http://www.themanacrypt.com/products/search?query=mental+misstep

Damn.

My plan for buying up all copies so that no one could ever use it against me might just take slightly longer than I had expected now.

[Finn]

I don't understand how they can expect anyone to actually pay that price. Could it be an input error?

I mean, there's hype and there's hype.

[Dia_Bot]

I don't understand how they can expect anyone to actually pay that price. Could it be an input error?

I mean, there's hype and there's hype.

Pretty sure it's a typo ^^.

[gravemind123]

Yeah, I assume someone meant to type $4.19 and accidentally $419.

[dahcmai]

Least the hype is starting to subside. I picked up several cards today at much less than normal online prices since they seemed to be in abundance. Here's some predictions for you people if you like that sort of thing. I'm usually pretty dead on.

Mental Misstep - $3 normal / Foil - $20 (notice it's already falling off and I caught the fact that people have a hell of a time jamming it into established decks) As we said, it's damned good, but not I'm putting this in all decks good as suspected. Spell Snare should have taught people a lesson. It's in that range.

Karn - $20 (incidentally, I got one for that today)
Batterskull - $25 (sadly, it's actually good)
Sword of War/Peace - $30 (damage ratios awesome, but protection is meh)
Phyrexian Obliterator - $15 (It's persecutor, except a tad better)
Foil Dismember - $5 (It does look really hot as a foil)

Everything else is pretty meh and most Legacy players are going to not care a bit anyway as we won't use most of it. There's one more I'm not mentioning since I haven't got my foils of it yet and I hate fueling speculators, but it's going to be a staple.

[Beatusnox]

I wish Gitaxian Probe was going to be worth something have like 15 of them <_<

Also, had a Karn yesterday for all of 15 minutes, ended up getting 2 Urabrask, 1 Praetors grasp, 1 Surgical Extraction, 2 Missteps, 1 Sheoldred, 2 Foil Probes, and a slag fiend for it.

I think I dun good.

Lol. No batterskull though, and I had an obliterator for all of 30 seconds, got two fetches for it.

All in all, I thought it was a good day.

[bruizar]

I wish Gitaxian Probe was going to be worth something have like 15 of them <_<

Also, had a Karn yesterday for all of 15 minutes, ended up getting 2 Urabrask, 1 Praetors grasp, 1 Surgical Extraction, 2 Missteps, 1 Sheoldred, 2 Foil Probes, and a slag fiend for it.

I think I dun good.

Lol. No batterskull though, and I had an obliterator for all of 30 seconds, got two fetches for it.

All in all, I thought it was a good day.

Foil Gitaxian Probe is going to be worth a lot. It's the best card for vintage and its great with Cabal Therapy in Legacy too. Non foil Probe, not so much.

[kiblast]

Foil Gitaxian Probe is going to be worth a lot. It's the best card for vintage and its great with Cabal Therapy in Legacy too. Non foil Probe, not so much.

I fail to see the Vintage relevance of Gitaxian Probe. Actually the information it provides is cool, but I would like to understand what would you ever cut in a Vintage blue based deck to fit it in your 60s.

[bruizar]

I fail to see the Vintage relevance of Gitaxian Probe. Actually the information it provides is cool, but I would like to understand what would you ever cut in a Vintage blue based deck to fit it in your 60s.

Probe, draw a card, storm 1
Play second probe, draw a card, storm 2
Cast Yawgmoth's Will, storm 3
Flashback Probe, draw a card, storm 4
Flashback Probe 2, draw a card, storm 5

We haven't even started dumping Ancestral Recall/Moxen/Lotus/Chain of Vapor/Gush yet and we're already halfway there.

A free card that adds storm and draws 2 cards. Looks like Gush, doesn't it?

[kiblast]

Probe, draw a card, storm 1
Play second probe, draw a card, storm 2
Cast Yawgmoth's Will, storm 3
Flashback Probe, draw a card, storm 4
Flashback Probe 2, draw a card, storm 5


Well, Yawgwill with only 2 Probe in grave is an awful play anyway. To me is not *so* spectacular. The problem, again, is what would you cut in any Storm Combo for it.



A free card that adds storm and draws 2 cards. Looks like Gush, doesn't it?

Except that Gush should be played turn 2-3 with Fastbond in hand (not so difficult to find given the fact you can play a zillion tutors turn 1-2), providing 2 cards and 2 mana floating, with minor lifeloss as a drawback?. Yeah, pretty much like Gush...

[bruizar]

Well, Yawgwill with only 2 Probe in grave is an awful play anyway. To me is not *so* spectacular. The problem, again, is what would you cut in any Storm Combo for it.



Except that Gush should be played turn 2-3 with Fastbond in hand (not so difficult to find given the fact you can play a zillion tutors turn 1-2), providing 2 cards and 2 mana floating, with minor lifeloss as a drawback?. Yeah, pretty much like Gush...

Ugh, seriously... don't discuss vintage if you have no idea what you're talking about. Any Will that doesn't set up the fundamental turn is an aweful play anyway. There is literally NO reason not to run probe if your plan is to set up yawgmoth's will or tendrils. Even in the most dire of circumstances you could randomly cast Will to flashback probes and dig for an answer. It even helps you rip from the top your tutored card after Imperial Seal / Vampiric Tutor. It also helps enable your Cabal Rituals quicker. I provided more than enough reasons why you should move your ass and buy some foils now.

Another option is:
Imperial Seal -> Time Vault
Probe
Yawgmoth´s Will
Imperial Seal -> Voltaic Key
Probe

Win

All of a sudden, a topdeck tutor and a Probe is enough setup to start your game winning Y.Will (Without passing 2 turns)

[ivanpei]

Batterskull is redic in Standard, but sadly not so in Legacy, I'm letting mine go. Have 2 foil Missteps already, working on negotiations for the 3rd. 1 more to go! Btw got my foil Karn @ 70 dollars. The itch for foil awesomeness got to me... I'm pretty sure I'm gonna regret it when the price falls, but whatever, lol! SCG has foil Missteps @ 40 -_- That's hype alright. This guy wanted my foil counterbalance for a foil Misstep. I politely declined. Misstep in Counterbalance range? Coldsnap was a rare as hell set and cracked limitedly, theres no way foil Missteps are gonna stay at the 40$ range.

[dahcmai]

Is it just me or is Karn incredibly easy to open out of a pack. Our release tournament in addition to the pre-release had a slightly skewed ratio of 4 to 1 for Karns. Yes, literally 1 person out of 4 opened a Karn in their packs. Elesh Norn being the other skewed Mythic. I saw 5 opened out of a 24 person tournament. That one wasn't so bad, but 6 Karns? Same went for the next weekend at the release. Even more Elesh Norns and Karns. I opened 2 Karns myself. Weird. And out of all that, not a single sword. Saw a box opened with 2 Karn's in it also. Go figure.

[sdematt]

We also saw a ton of Karns and Norns. An abnormal amount, actually. If only Jace was this easy to open...
-Matt

[Philipp2293]

My dad also opened a box with 2 Karns in it.

[honestabe]

I opened a Sword of Body and Mind, Batterskull, and Foil Phyrexian Obliterator at the release event. haha

However, between prereleases, and drafts with friends, between my friend and I, we've opened 28 packs of NPH. Not one mental fucking misstep. The card is a myth. Not one person at the entire release event opened one. But one guy did get 2 sword of war and peace

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

.

[Royal Ass.]

My Friend opened a case and only got 1 Karn. He did get like 7 Swords of War and Peace though. He opened a case of Besieged when it came out and didn't get any Tezzerets!

I have pulled a Karn, Obliterator, and a Batterskull just from playing in release events and the packs I have won from them. Only one Misstep though :( But I did get a foil Gitaxian Probe :) I'll trade it cause I hate foils.

[ivanpei]

Mental Misstep has been incredibly hard to open, there were 2 playsets in total opened from 2 flights of 50++ prerelease sessions. The Malaysian market is flooding with Karns. They're going for 30 dollars and still no buyers. One guy opened about 2 boxes this week. Had like 8 Karns in it. Wtf? Karn really seems easy to open. The shop is flooded with them too.

[dahcmai]

There's talk going around about the mythics having a different ratio to rares. You might keep a watch on Salvation about that. Those guys have nothing better to do other than find that stuff out. It might be that wizards decided to cut people a break and make them a little easier to get. I would be happy about that.

Mythics were a fine idea for making money for the company, but a terrible idea for promoting it's tournament scene.

[Royal Ass.]

Watch for Standstill to tick up a bit after the SCG Open. Just from when I was watching the SCG live of the semi-finals coverage to now they have sold about 40.

In other news, I bought an Alpha Mox Pearl today....

[Mr.C]

We also saw a ton of Karns and Norns. An abnormal amount, actually. If only Jace was this easy to open...
-Matt

Makes me wonder what the sheet looks like.

[Zamussels]

I thought Berserk would go up when I saw that infect deck so I got 3 beta ones to complete my playset. Might be a bad idea, but in any case they're pretty.

[DTC]

They're betas, so it's not like they'll be any worse?

I'm going to watch the card for a bit. The deck didn't top so less people might be inclined to buy berserks and play it, but if it catches on you can be berserks might be the next old card to go way up.

Despite the deck's lack of topping, it does seem these are on the rise. SCG had them at $50 and sold out, all ebay auctions are hitting over that price already and the couple buy it nows have already been snatched up. TCGplayers has the only unlimited one at like $78, but this isn't a card i've checked recently so i'm not sure if they got bought out or not.

FTV: Exiled versions are still semi-cheap but supply is getting snatched up there too.

[dahcmai]

Berzerk is a limited supply card. It's never a bad deal really. It has a tendency to hit a plateau eventually and slowly go up, but it always does. It's too much of a casual card. Even while it was banned out of Legacy it was still a good buy.

The deck is sort of a glass cannon though.


Anyway, if anyone hears about the layout of the mythic sheet, I'd like to hear about it. Elesh Norn was the other really common mythic. Which really sucked considering what a bomb she is in limited.

[Sims]

Anyway, if anyone hears about the layout of the mythic sheet, I'd like to hear about it. Elesh Norn was the other really common mythic. Which really sucked considering what a bomb she is in limited.

I haven't had that experience. I spent the past few weekends hanging out and giving my friend a hand at his store and saw 3 boxes of product, plus 5 fat packs opened, PLUS the case he opened for store product:

6 Karns, 0 Elesh Norns, 7 or 8 Obliterators, 4 or 5 Sword of War and Peace (1 foil), 2 Batterskulls.

Most of those Oblits and Karns were out of the Fat Packs.

[TheAardvark]

My dad also opened a box with 2 Karns in it.

A guy here cracked 3, including a foil, in one box at FNM. Pretty odd. Seen probably 3x as many Batterskulls as Swords, though.

[Royal Ass.]

Yep, Standstill just went up $5 apiece on SCG, from 9.99 to 14.99 for NM.

[plus_ten]

Yep, Standstill just went up $5 apiece on SCG, from 9.99 to 14.99 for NM.

All NM pieces are sold out. 6 SP and 27 MP left though, so I guess it's still far from hot cake-material. Anyone saw how many there were before the tournament started?

I think this is getting outrageous... 2 top 8 spots and the card goes nuts. 40 cards sold in a matter of hours? Did 10 guys bought up 1 playset per person or a few guys snapped a few playsets per person?

[BenBleiweiss]

All NM pieces are sold out. 6 SP and 27 MP left though, so I guess it's still far from hot cake-material. Anyone saw how many there were before the tournament started?

I think this is getting outrageous... 2 top 8 spots and the card goes nuts. 40 cards sold in a matter of hours? Did 10 guys bought up 1 playset per person or a few guys snapped a few playsets per person?

35 copies sold to 8 different customers, in a 5-hour span on Sunday afternoon.

- Ben

[GGoober]

Glad I picked up those NM foil ones at SCG for $31 just a few weeks back. I could have Ebay'd for cheaper but I was using store credit from my trade pile at SCG Dallas and figured I rather grab 3 NM ones than wait for auctions :P

Standstill won't ever stay at the $15.00 mark for long, unless of course Merfolk decides to play them again, and maybe other U(xy) aggro-Vial decks are starting to play them.

[evanmartyr]

I fail to see the Vintage relevance of Gitaxian Probe. Actually the information it provides is cool, but I would like to understand what would you ever cut in a Vintage blue based deck to fit it in your 60s.

Maybe this is just anecdotal, as I have very little experience with Vintage, but after being somewhat excited about Probe, I goldfished a ton of games with Belcher, pretending the Manamorphoses were Probes. The results were discouraging. I'll probably drop a Red Elemental Blast for one in the sideboard, but no more than that. Probe does seem like the ideal "filler" card for Vintage storm, though. If you have any random slots that are designed for a specific meta, and find yourself outside that meta, this would probably be your go-to card. So foils: yes; non-foils: no.

[BenBleiweiss]

Maybe this is just anecdotal, as I have very little experience with Vintage, but after being somewhat excited about Probe, I goldfished a ton of games with Belcher, pretending the Manamorphoses were Probes. The results were discouraging. I'll probably drop a Red Elemental Blast for one in the sideboard, but no more than that. Probe does seem like the ideal "filler" card for Vintage storm, though. If you have any random slots that are designed for a specific meta, and find yourself outside that meta, this would probably be your go-to card. So foils: yes; non-foils: no.

Isn't Probe also a good candidate to take the Streetwater Wraith slot in Dredge decks?

- Ben

[kiblast]

Maybe this is just anecdotal, as I have very little experience with Vintage, but after being somewhat excited about Probe, I goldfished a ton of games with Belcher, pretending the Manamorphoses were Probes. The results were discouraging. I'll probably drop a Red Elemental Blast for one in the sideboard, but no more than that. Probe does seem like the ideal "filler" card for Vintage storm, though. If you have any random slots that are designed for a specific meta, and find yourself outside that meta, this would probably be your go-to card. So foils: yes; non-foils: no.

Problem is that almost any storm deck in vintage has got a very very fixed list, in which very few slots are free. For example, in a Tps list like this one (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6090&iddeck=44173), what would you cut? probably the only free slot is Hurkyl's Recall #2. Even Ponder, or Preordain, seem more important for the possibility of seeing 2-3 cards more.

[Gambit]

Isn't Probe also a good candidate to take the Streetwater Wraith slot in Dredge decks?

- Ben

Nobody really runs Street Wraith, but that doesn't mean probe won't be good in dredge.

[KindGrind]

Shackles is also on the rise, it seems...

[ivanpei]

Folk doesn't run stills anymore. It's the uw landstill lists with shackles and stills that are driving up the prices. Like most of Gerry t's decks, its highly metarized and probably won't be putting as much numbers high again when the meta adapts.

[plus_ten]

35 copies sold to 8 different customers, in a 5-hour span on Sunday afternoon.

- Ben

Ah. Thanks for the clarification, mate. It is good to know that these cards are going out to players rather than speculators (I hope those 8 bought a set apiece).

It is interesting to see the MtG market run.


Folk doesn't run stills anymore. It's the uw landstill lists with shackles and stills that are driving up the prices. Like most of Gerry t's decks, its highly metarized and probably won't be putting as much numbers high again when the meta adapts.

I can see Shackles being a meta card, but I don't think Landstill is as much of a fringe deck as some of the others. Flexible slots and SB space adapt to the meta, the core should not change? Anyone who is a landstill/control player should be picking sets of these up.

[DTC]

i've been watching standstill since i coincidentally agreed upon a trade involving 2 like a day or two before this event and picked up 2 more for $8 at a local store to build a set, and wanted to see if they shot up and i made a lucky call to get now. On TCGplayer it's been the same price of $10 and not really moving very fast though so i'm guessing the uncommon aspect is keeping enough of these a supply in addition to being a fringe enough card people with extras/unused copies are more likely to cash them out than cards affected by the reserved list or see a lot more play in numerous decks (in the case of goyfs, confidants, tops, and vials) and that's been keeping the price from shooting up higher than it's already been for a while.

On the flipside it's the only card that does what it does, and is very efficient at that so it's definitely something that will maintain value as there likely won't be a card that does the same thing better. It doesn't feel like a card they'd reprint either so the investment is solid as an uncommon.

[dahcmai]

By the way, Mental Misstep is finally starting to go down somewhat. I've noticed most of them ending around $20 on ye olde auction site consecutively enough to see that it's only going down from here. I still think it will even up at $15 for quite a while. Hope you didn't pay too much for yours if you bought some.



And yeah, pick up Standstills. Mental Misstep does provide a way to finally make sure it's worth that second turn drop. I totally agree with Gerry on that point. Even if you're not planning to go into power counterspell mode, that's a hell of a play. Spell Snare sadly is a necessity to really ensure it's going to happen so that's another one. He really hit a nice stride with that deck, though I still think it could use a few more global answer cards. Cough, Humility.

[Mr.C]

There goes the price of Stoneforge...

[Arsenal]

There goes the price of Stoneforge...

It's been holding steady at $20 since Cawblade's coming out party, not sure what your comment means.

[tsabo_tavoc]

There goes the price of Stoneforge...

I am puzzled, did not Caw-blade win the latest SCG Open?


It's been holding steady at $20 since Cawblade's coming out party, not sure what your comment means.

I guess he means the price starts to drop.

[Steino]

One of the deck lists for the New Phyrexia Event Decks has two Stoneforge Mystics in the list.

[hyc8028]

There are 2x Stoneforge Mystics in the NPH event deck.

[Arsenal]

That's pretty good news to hear. Although she's rotating fairly soon from Standard, to which a normal rotation price reduction will follow, it's always good to have additional copies of a playable card floating around.

[KindGrind]

Should one sell his set of SFM @20 and buy back when they're down? Isn't this sound?

[ivanpei]

By the way, Mental Misstep is finally starting to go down somewhat. I've noticed most of them ending around $20 on ye olde auction site consecutively enough to see that it's only going down from here. I still think it will even up at $15 for quite a while. Hope you didn't pay too much for yours if you bought some.



And yeah, pick up Standstills. Mental Misstep does provide a way to finally make sure it's worth that second turn drop. I totally agree with Gerry on that point. Even if you're not planning to go into power counterspell mode, that's a hell of a play. Spell Snare sadly is a necessity to really ensure it's going to happen so that's another one. He really hit a nice stride with that deck, though I still think it could use a few more global answer cards. Cough, Humility.

I still see foil missteps ending at 25-30. I got mine at about 25 so I think that's a pretty fair price for em. Finally have a set!

[phonics]

I dumped mine yesterday cause I dont see how the value could go any higher (this year). Lots of the value comes from it being a meta defining card in standard right now, with rotations on the horizon, event decks even sooner, I'm pretty confident that I will be able to get a set come rotation for less than ~80$.

[KindGrind]

Everyone seems to be grabbing Energy Fields left and right...

[death]

It started at round 7 even before MUC won the whole thing. SCG may be behind it, they seem to be restocking since they are out of it.

[MattH]

I ordered a couple when I saw it made T8. Took the opportunity to get some nice EDH foils as well.

Of course, I bought my personal playset months ago, because it was obviously better than $2 and only a matter of time before it did something. I figured it would be a SB card for Tide, but hey, whatever.

[lordofthepit]

Everyone seems to be grabbing Energy Fields left and right...

I wasn't following the tournament, but how the hell is that even a good card? Yeah, you might fog for a few turns, but it's dead to any kind of discard or any spell that you might want to counter. If you're playing anything but monoblue, it's dead to Wasteland as well (even on an untapped fetchland).

[Mr.C]

I wasn't following the tournament, but how the hell is that even a good card? Yeah, you might fog for a few turns, but it's dead to any kind of discard or any spell that you might want to counter. If you're playing anything but monoblue, it's dead to Wasteland as well (even on an untapped fetchland).

Doesn't matter, it's now $10.

Now, all I have to do is wait for the flood of PMs from people offering me MOTL price on the ones on my list.

[Tinefol]

The card is bad, and the guy only got in top 8, because his opponent can't RTFC.


Oh, he drops Energy Field, then drops a fetchalnd.
His opponent has a lethal on board with a bunch of lords and topdecks a Wasteland. This cards cares about something put in graveyard, right? LETS WASTE MY OWN MUTAVAULT. Oh, why it didn't go away? Let me read that card again? Oh my, I'm so stupid! And then that Energy Field won him game and a match, which he never had a shot winning at.

[Mr.C]

The card is bad, and the guy only got in top 8, because his opponent can't RTFC.


Oh, he drops Energy Field, then drops a fetchalnd.
His opponent has a lethal on board with a bunch of lords and topdecks a Wasteland. This cards cares about something put in graveyard, right? LETS WASTE MY OWN MUTAVAULT. Oh, why it didn't go away? Let me read that card again? Oh my, I'm so stupid! And then that Energy Field won him game and a match, which he never had a shot winning at.

Doesn't matter. Herd mentality, etc.

[lordofthepit]

Doesn't matter, it's now $10.

It does matter.

For every card that spikes up in price and makes it to this thread, people like me (and everyone else reading) will be wondering "should I bother to pick these up"? In this case, the answer is clearly no unless there was some hidden synergy that I was missing, which doesn't appear to be the case.

If all I wanted to know is "what card spiked recently", I could easily write a script to check the web and figure it out for me. But this thread is more than that.

[HokusSchmokus]

Are MM really this Expensive in the US?
I just recently bought my Playset for 8 €, thats about 11-12 $

[dahcmai]

Right now they are. Even the US Ebay is going for a decent amount. I have a standing bid in for $20 for foils across the board and I only scored 2 so far at $16 and $17 respectively. People will catch on after a bit. It just takes longer here.


Anyway, the Energy Field thing is actually not surprising at all. One, it's actually a card that's decent anyway that was printed in Saga. Saga cards eventually all break out once they see a little play. Serra Sanctum anyone? That card was a $1 card forever until Enchantress. Energy Field always had the cute little combo with Wheel of Sun and Moon and could be a decent stall tactic as it was. Secondly, the quotable part.

OMG, It was in the winning deck list in a SCG tournament! Baaaaaaa...

[keys]

Energy Field is such a terrible card. Sheeple...

[GGoober]

Combos with another bad card Wheel of Sun and Moon so it must be a good card(NOT*NOT= GUD!!!!!)

[TheShaun]

Are MM really this Expensive in the US?
I just recently bought my Playset for 8 €, thats about 11-12 $

They're about $6 here right now.

[anonymos]

Combos with another bad card Wheel of Sun and Moon so it must be a good card(NOT*NOT= GUD!!!!!)

I've played them both in an enchantress shell trying to deck people. Used Words of Wind too. It's pretty bad. I've had lots of people ask to borrow the deck though because they thought it was fun to play. I hope I still have the Energy Fields from that.

The card I kind of want to look at price changes for is Misdirection. I know it was a steady 10-12 for forever before this weekend. If it hasn't moved yet and you don't have them, you may want to fix this. I can see it easily becoming a 3 of in most non merfolk blue sideboards like submerge has become for blue boards.

[Royal Ass.]

Has anyone noticed that SCGs is sold out of Revised Underground Seas which are listed at $150?!?!? (They still need to update their unlimited ones that are listed at only $130!)

This seems totally crazy to me but I guess it's just the reality of the situation. As someone who has been playing since revised when duals were $5 cards and then sat at 10-20 for many years, I just have a hard time getting it through my head.

I paid 100 for my first Mox, then less than 150 for the next few pieces of Unlimted power back in the early 2000s. To think a Revised card to reach those levels it still kind of amazing to me. But fun to watch all the less (Sitting comfortable with two play sets of seas...).

[lorddotm]

Energy Field is such a terrible card. Sheeple...

It beats Merfolk, sometimes. But against every other deck, yes, they are horrid.

[KindGrind]

Revised Seas still sell for more or less 100$ a piece on eBay.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Revised Seas still sell for more or less 100$ a piece on eBay.

Yeah, like revised Bayous on SCG are $80.

Plenty on Ebay for $60.

[dahcmai]

Just so everyone knows. Hive Mind is sold out at most of the common stores people hit up and Ebay. Do some searching, I found several thousand. No need to pay more than 19 cents yet.



Another casualty of the Providence sheep run is Missteps are going back up again. Ugh, what tards. they were down to $10 a pop for foils and now there's even a set of 4 going for almost $60 a pop with individual ones with BIN's at $27 a pop. Stupid, stupid people. Oh well, I'll wait 2 weeks and get my other 2 for $10 again.

[Jim Higginbottom]

When were they at $10 for foils? SCG has paid $20-25 for them since the set was released.

[dahcmai]

Don't just look on Star City. They are good for some things, but typically higher for anything in high demand.

Here's one example. http://cgi.ebay.com/MTG-MAGIC-NEW-PHYREXIA-MENTAL-MISSTEP-FOIL-/280682174922?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4159f619ca


They went down to around $10 for about 1 day with not a single one of them over $20 even in the buy it nows. Then the news from Providence started coming in and they shot right back up again. The Sheeples always do that after a tournament. Worst time to buy highly sought after cards ever. Best time to pick up EDH foils though. I managed to get some foil Urza's Destiny Rares and some Starter crap I had been after for a bit for dirt cheap.

Everything goes in waves, kind of like the meta. Just catch them when it's on the lull by avoiding the Sheeples wave.

Best times to buy.

Right before a tournament ends as the top 8 lists are getting entered in. Grab anything that's in the winning decks because the Sheeples drive up the price and you can resell the next day. Yeah, yeah, bash the speculator, but you know you'd do it too if you knew what was coming in advance. At least I only buy play sets for myself and a couple for trade. I don't go hog wild and buy dozens.

Right as the tournament finishes. Grab cards no one is typing into the search at that time. Foil EDH rares, older cards like Arabians, anything you've wanted for a bit that's not in a Legacy deck (or standard if that's the format going on). Need an Argothian enchantress? You buy something like that if no one played it in the top lists and you'll get a great deal almost guaranteed. Sure, you're buying cards that don't seem good at the time, but they always come back later and you'll be happy you picked them up for pennies on the dollar when you could.

When new sets come out. Grab up older cards for dirt cheap. Best time to buy duals and Forces obviously. While everyone spends on pre-orders and pre-release cards coming out, you snag up the staples for much less. Wait for Innistrad and then watch the price of something like Humility for instance. It drops to near nothing for a short period.

3-5 weeks after a new set is out. Everything drops. Sheeples are out of money from buying packs and fat packs. Good time to get foils of Legacy staples.

Hope that helps.

[Koby]

An extension of Adam's buy-guide for MTGO.

Never buy a card from the new set until the middle of the 2nd week of Release Events. There is always a price slump from oversupply and demand being met. The next best time is about a week before set redemption is turned on.

[Solaran_X]

Here is my testament to the rising price of Legacy staples.

This weekend at the Grand Prix, I traded 9 non-blue duals (3 Scrublands, 2 Bayou, 2 Plateau, 1 Taiga, 1 Badlands) for an Unlimited Time Walk from a player at the event. And I then traded 11 non-blue duals (3 Badlands, 1 Bayou, 2 Plateau, 3 Savannah, 1 Scrubland, 1 Taiga) and three non-foil Zendikar fetchlands to a deal for an Unlimited Ancestral Recall.

20 non-blue Revised duals turned into 2 pieces of Unlimited Power. Last year at GP: Columbus, this would have seemed ridiculous.

[keys]

20 non-blue Revised duals turned into 2 pieces of Unlimited Power.

This doesn't seem like that great of a deal to me unless the power is NM and duals are played...

[Solaran_X]

Duals were pretty played. The Time Walk and Ancestral Recall were pretty decent. Probably in good condition overall.

[DTC]

duals are also more liquid, so trading down power for them will be even more common in time to come. Also duals go up together. Next time the price spikes your power might still be the same and that'll seem like too much for them.

as for speculation, these rules all apply, but also

Standard
Buy standard stuff when it falls out of favor, rotates, or before a price bump after a large event.
Sell standard after a standard event before it becomes stable or drops, as it most likely does the latter.
Buy legacy stuff that's not in favor at the time, legacy tends to go in cycles so even when archetypes aren't winning, it doesn't mean they won't. You'll get the non-winning stuff cheap until it wins again.
Sell legacy stuff that's in favor when there's demand, but in the end if you sell or not won't make a difference unless they're extra.
Buy EDH stuff whenever, as it's usually unaffected, but the best times are before new set releases or after an event as others are spending money on other things. Ebay auctions for edh will end lower than usual.
Sell EDH when there's a lull. If no events are firing, and no sets being released, EDH players will be looking to finish their decks off.
Foils are always hot, just buy whenever you get them on the cheap, but also applies the same as legacy/edh, some will be cheaper at different times, but will be sky high when people are looking for them.
Foreign is a different market. I manage to get japanese stuff cheap on ebay sometimes. Some of it from japan directly when the ending times are weird for us americans, but in general the demand might be lower than foils, especially for not big cards. The market is also more limited than foreign so in general you can snag stuff low. If your local area trades hard for foreign you can probably profit just buying it off ebay then selling/trading to people locally. The same goes for foils though.
Extended, buy year round except during extended PTQ season.
Extended, sell PTQ season.
Random rarities, stuff like AN, legends, portal etc won't fire off high on ebay usually when there is an auction around. Unless the card sees play it's mostly collectors snagging these up, which means it all comes down to times of day and year and what's going on in general for magic. However because of the nature of these cards, auctions aren't as frequent on any specific piece you might be looking for, so it's better if you're building these sets rather than completing them.

Trade demand:
Standard/Legacy/EDH have the highest trade.
Foils have a solid market and often times you might be the only guy in the store with a key foil so getting a good trade will not be hard.
Foreign is a niche market. some people love them, others hate them. If you can get foreign by the playset and ship them as such you might be able to get some good trades, but unless you got a set, it's edh, it's popular, or the person really wants the card, they tend to move slowly.
Misc rares, these will be hard movers as the only people who trade for them usually do so for collection purposes. They're cool to pick up, but putting money into them means you have to expect a while for your return on them. The plus side is the collectors who want them really do, so when the time comes you'll get paid if you got it cheap.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Don't just look on Star City. They are good for some things, but typically higher for anything in high demand.

Here's one example. http://cgi.ebay.com/MTG-MAGIC-NEW-PHYREXIA-MENTAL-MISSTEP-FOIL-/280682174922?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4159f619ca


They went down to around $10 for about 1 day with not a single one of them over $20 even in the buy it nows. Then the news from Providence started coming in and they shot right back up again. The Sheeples always do that after a tournament. Worst time to buy highly sought after cards ever. Best time to pick up EDH foils though. I managed to get some foil Urza's Destiny Rares and some Starter crap I had been after for a bit for dirt cheap.

Everything goes in waves, kind of like the meta. Just catch them when it's on the lull by avoiding the Sheeples wave.

Best times to buy.

Right before a tournament ends as the top 8 lists are getting entered in. Grab anything that's in the winning decks because the Sheeples drive up the price and you can resell the next day. Yeah, yeah, bash the speculator, but you know you'd do it too if you knew what was coming in advance. At least I only buy play sets for myself and a couple for trade. I don't go hog wild and buy dozens.

Right as the tournament finishes. Grab cards no one is typing into the search at that time. Foil EDH rares, older cards like Arabians, anything you've wanted for a bit that's not in a Legacy deck (or standard if that's the format going on). Need an Argothian enchantress? You buy something like that if no one played it in the top lists and you'll get a great deal almost guaranteed. Sure, you're buying cards that don't seem good at the time, but they always come back later and you'll be happy you picked them up for pennies on the dollar when you could.

When new sets come out. Grab up older cards for dirt cheap. Best time to buy duals and Forces obviously. While everyone spends on pre-orders and pre-release cards coming out, you snag up the staples for much less. Wait for Innistrad and then watch the price of something like Humility for instance. It drops to near nothing for a short period.

3-5 weeks after a new set is out. Everything drops. Sheeples are out of money from buying packs and fat packs. Good time to get foils of Legacy staples.

Hope that helps.


Correction, best time to buy Staples... During an American Legacy GP when everyone is playing Magic or driving and not on Ebay...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180672931207&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
Woot!

My strategy is to buy anything that I think I can trade if I can get it for cheap enough, then flip it. Example, waited, waited, and waited, finally found 3 Badlands for $25 a piece, bought them, just flipped one for a Natural Order, Damnation, playset of Ancestral Visions, and a SpellSkite. Got 2 Seas for $140 a while back traded them and 2x Deltas i got for $40 for an English Tabernacle. Got a miscut Badlands for $33 the other day (hells yes). It's a lot of work and patience finding people to sell below value though, you have to let people know you will buy cards on a moments notice and one day when they need $90 for rent ASAP they call you up and it's go time, Ebay gives it up every once in a while but it's like hitting the lottery and sometimes people won't even ship if you win an auction way below value and you have to jump through the hoops and wait a month to get your money back. If the local shops knew how sharkish I was at buying they would hire me tomorrow.

[MattH]

Right as the tournament finishes. Grab cards no one is typing into the search at that time. Foil EDH rares, older cards like Arabians, anything you've wanted for a bit that's not in a Legacy deck (or standard if that's the format going on).

So true! While everyone was watching the GP T8, I got a Spinal Villain for $1.50...

[GGoober]

so true! While everyone was watching the gp t8, i got a spinal villain for $1.50...

damn you spinal villain!!! Where art thou when i need ye to fry me some fishies!!

EDIT: Wow MTS automatically decapitalize that line..

Anyone has 3 Korean Peacekeepers to help me out? That card is non-existent! I have not been able to find any of them anywhere!

[Rune]

Anyone has 3 Korean Peacekeepers to help me out? That card is non-existent! I have not been able to find any of them anywhere!

I bought a signed one for 5€ when the card got "discovered". Now they cost 30€ O_o

[BenBleiweiss]

Here is my testament to the rising price of Legacy staples.

This weekend at the Grand Prix, I traded 9 non-blue duals (3 Scrublands, 2 Bayou, 2 Plateau, 1 Taiga, 1 Badlands) for an Unlimited Time Walk from a player at the event. And I then traded 11 non-blue duals (3 Badlands, 1 Bayou, 2 Plateau, 3 Savannah, 1 Scrubland, 1 Taiga) and three non-foil Zendikar fetchlands to a deal for an Unlimited Ancestral Recall.

20 non-blue Revised duals turned into 2 pieces of Unlimited Power. Last year at GP: Columbus, this would have seemed ridiculous.

Let's assume that all of your duals were Moderately Played Condition, by our prices:

3x Scrubland ($25) = $75
2x Bayou ($40) = $80
2x Plateau ($25) = $50
2x Taiga ($40) = $80
1x Badlands ($25) = $25
Total = $310
Trade Bonus (25%): $77.50
Total: $385.50
Our Price for UL Time Walk in SP: $400

3 Badlands ($25) = $75
1 Bayou ($40)
2 Plateau ($25) = $50
3 Savannah ($30) = $90
1 Scrubland ($25)
1 Taiga ($40)
3x Fetchlands ($6) = $18
Total: $338
Trade Bonus (25%): $84.50
Total: $422.50
Our Price on UL Ancestral Recall in SP: $450

Long story short - I would have just called it even, and our SP is pretty high grade - plus this is assuming everything of yours is pretty beat up :) Next time, just consider hitting us up, because the trade would be pretty quick and painless (since we have set prices on both ends) :)

- Ben

[Mark Sun]

Anyone has 3 Korean Peacekeepers to help me out? That card is non-existent! I have not been able to find any of them anywhere!

Tee-hee. May or may not have traded 2 SP English Peacekeepers for a Korean one at the GP. Fun day for me. We should talk.

[GGoober]

I bought a signed one for 5€ when the card got "discovered". Now they cost 30€ O_o

Help me out there brah. I want my opponents to ask me what does a Korean Peacekeeper do and see their mouths drop when I tell them what she does :P

@Dual v.s. TW trade. I will take the duals any day. You can liquidate the duals much easier and also get a ton more $$ from desperate people seeking out duals. Also, the thing that shocked me was when Wastelands were going for $60 a piece, you could easily trade 10 Wastelands for a 2 power. Now that's a steal, too bad I traded my 5-12th Wastelands a long time back when they were $30ish

[sigfig8]

Let's assume that all of your duals were Moderately Played Condition, by our prices:

3x Scrubland ($25) = $75
2x Bayou ($40) = $80
2x Plateau ($25) = $50
2x Taiga ($40) = $80
1x Badlands ($25) = $25
Total = $310
Trade Bonus (25%): $77.50
Total: $385.50
Our Price for UL Time Walk in SP: $400

3 Badlands ($25) = $75
1 Bayou ($40)
2 Plateau ($25) = $50
3 Savannah ($30) = $90
1 Scrubland ($25)
1 Taiga ($40)
3x Fetchlands ($6) = $18
Total: $338
Trade Bonus (25%): $84.50
Total: $422.50
Our Price on UL Ancestral Recall in SP: $450

Long story short - I would have just called it even, and our SP is pretty high grade - plus this is assuming everything of yours is pretty beat up :) Next time, just consider hitting us up, because the trade would be pretty quick and painless (since we have set prices on both ends) :)

- Ben

I'm waiting patiently for the opportunity to convert a full set of 40 SP/NM duals for a set of power. I wonder if that will ever be possible. Maybe sans the lotus?

[Ziilot]

Who is playing foil Tower of the Magistrates? ~$30 feels quite high for a bulk rare.

[Sims]

Who is playing foil Tower of the Magistrates? ~$30 feels quite high for a bulk rare.

EDH. It's a Masques foil that gets played in EDH, it's going to be high.

[yawg07]

Card alterers are always in an interesting boat when it comes to card prices.
I remember buying Karns for $35 no matter how dumb I thought it was, because they were selling in the $80 range for painted ones right after the prerelease.

Not every card does well, price doesn't really determine it, and sometimes it simply just depends on your target audience.
Generally $20-30 rares and $10-15 uncommons sell pretty well. There is also a big market of high dollar stuff ($50 and above)
But then again, commons and casual rares that are $2 can fetch big bucks. I tend to cater to Legacy/Vintage and EDH as well. Ext/Standard are less on my radar.

[sdematt]

Ben, I tried to deal with your staff at the GP on Beta duals, but they said there was no room to budge on prices. Are you prices not flexible on thousand dollar cards at all?

Then, I wanted to come back to your booth on Sunday and possibly make a deal, but you guys left. I fly across the continent to come play and buy cards from you guys, but you left :(

-Matt

[keys]

I'm waiting patiently for the opportunity to convert a full set of 40 SP/NM duals for a set of power. I wonder if that will ever be possible. Maybe sans the lotus?

According to Apathyhouse, a full set of 40 duals is worth $2,143.72, while the full set of Power 9 (with Twister, not Vault) is worth $3,503.36, with Lotus accounting for $824.13 of that.

[TheElvishPiper]

Yeah, like revised Bayous on SCG are $80.

Plenty on Ebay for $60.

Yeah, I got just one yesterday for $51.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Yep yep. Recent ebay purchases.

-Tropical Island $75
-Tropical Island $75
-Volcanic Island $50

Makes me think the people who buy things off SCG are insane.

[plus_ten]

Makes me think the people who buy things off SCG are insane.

That, or they are rich and/or lazy and/or time-poor... Not everyone can afford (or is patient enough) to wait for ebay, but clearly, they can afford the premium from SCG.

Prices seem to have settled some following the GP, let's wait for the next junk card to spike up!

OTOH, Sol Ring may well plummet following the Commander reprint...

[TheElvishPiper]

Yep yep. Recent ebay purchases.

-Tropical Island $75
-Tropical Island $75
-Volcanic Island $50

Makes me think the people who buy things off SCG are insane.

Congrats on the sweet pickups. The prices are pretty insane on SCG, but they are up there on all of the other websites too. I just dont think that the trend will hit ebay for a little while.

[TsumiBand]

The worst argument I heard over the weekend in regards to justification of price of entry in Eternal formats:

"Who cares how much it is to get in? How many other goods can you think of that you can buy one day, and sell in two weeks/a month and get 100% of your money back?"

Yes. Because let's leave issues such as initial financial barriers, the constant urge to permanently expand the player base and the lack of understanding a player's primary motivation behind actually acquiring format staples (which I mistakenly assumed was 'to play with them') in the first place. Honestly, the individual and I went back-and-forth a few times as we were perusing singles at the card shop, and it didn't occur to me at the time to ask the fellow if he was less a player and more a collector. But honestly, if I'm playing Legacy and purchasing dual lands, in what way as a player do I gain any ground by simply selling my duals in two weeks? It felt like an argument which came entirely from a collector, not a player, and I just don't understand the reasoning here - honestly, I don't understand the reasoning as either aspect of the argument. Doesn't a collector prefer to hold onto their 'investment' for either financial or sentimental reasons? Just what am I missing here?

[sclabman]

It isn't a strong argument, but it's removing the issue that plagues Type 2 from the equation.

[BKclassic]

Does anyone on here follow MTGO prices? I am thinking of buying FoWs since they have dropped in price following the GP, but I am worried that the price of FoW will just continue to drop. Does anyone have any thoughts?

[dahcmai]

Force of Will isn't a card that drops for long. It's a pretty safe investment no matter if it's paper or mtgo. I don't have to follow prices on mtgo to know that. Even in the case of a reprint the card retains a ton of value due to the art being quite good and hard to top.


It's a card that will always be needed in the format. Of course, that's not counting the extremely unlikely event that they actually make a better one.

[Koby]

Does anyone on here follow MTGO prices? I am thinking of buying FoWs since they have dropped in price following the GP, but I am worried that the price of FoW will just continue to drop. Does anyone have any thoughts?

If you're buying FOW to speculate, then you're not going to get good returns on this specific card. (highly fluctuating, not stable, not very liquidible as 75tix = max trade)

If you're buying FOW to play with, then the sooner you get them, the sooner you can play good decks. (and start winning/going infinite)

Either way, you would now have FOW which you didn't before, which opens up many options.

[BKclassic]

Thanks for the advice guys, I decided to take the plunge.

[TUMBLES]

I'm borderline plunging into the Magic Online scene as well... I just don't have chance to play IRL with my schedule and am getting very tired of arguing over rules with the clueless MWS population :-/

Is the program pretty easy to get used to? And what's the best way to get cards/tix?

[BKclassic]

I bailed on real life magic for MTGO and I am pretty pleased. It does take a while to get used to the ins and outs of the program but after a while it becomes second nature. Cards are pretty easy to get, there are superstores that have almost every card. This (http://www.marlonmtgo.com/prices.html) is a good place to go to find out the price of cards, though you can generally find them a bit cheaper then what is listed there.

[thranmonster]

Hive Mind has seen atleast a 100% increase in value from a .40 rare.

[death]

Hive Mind will always be a $0.25-1.00 card. I find it hilarious when people are banking on crap rares like this (Energy Field). The deck was meant to be cheap but competitive outside of FoW/Intuition/Monoliths. Focus your attention somewhere else, it's not worth it.

[Dark Ritual]

Hive mind is a rare in a set with mythic rare's/it's price will never go above 5. Sure foil one's are at 5 now but that's foil ones. The non foil version is still a dollar.

Force is just going to go up if they never reprint it, IRL and on MTGO. It's quite scarce on MTGO though since it's 150 last I checked there.

[Mr.C]

So, preorder prices are going crazy for Commander cards. Seems odd.

[sdematt]

Are any Legacy playable?

-Matt

[DTC]

Hive Mind will always be a $0.25-1.00 card. I find it hilarious when people are banking on crap rares like this (Energy Field). The deck was meant to be cheap but competitive outside of FoW/Intuition/Monoliths. Focus your attention somewhere else, it's not worth it.

If you buy 50 hive minds at $0.25 then they become $1.25 that's $1 per hive mind you just gained in value.

If you got them for $0.50 and then do cap out at $5, and you bought 50 ($25 investment) you now just gained $225 in value.

Splinter twin is a 2 card combo in standard that rotates out in 3 months, also from a set with mythics and is going for $10 a piece, and it's not even the best deck in standard.

If you have all the old stuff like monoliths, show and tells, intuitions etc already like longtime legacy players often do then to play this deck you need hive minds. So demand will increase for anyone trying to pick them up.

When it comes to a bulk rare gaining value, every dollar it gets does add up, and the investment is near nonexistent if you got them beforehand that i don't see why it matters. I picked my playset up at a total of $0.55, so even at a dollar a piece i'm getting +$3.45 on them and each quarter they go up beyond that i'd be getting $1 added in value for the set.

[death]

If you got them for $0.50 and then do cap out at $5, and you bought 50 ($25 investment) you now just gained $225 in value

ebay/Paypal/shipping fees won't let you get away with it just saying. The card has a virtually unlimited supply being a crap rare (compared to Splinter Twin). Unless half the Legacy meta plays it (Hive Mind), only then it may cap out at $5. I don't see it happening anytime soon. If it does, Show and Tell will be banned.

(I got my foil set for $3.25 shipping included btw)

In other news:
Near Mint English The Abyss has been selling at 95+ previously 75+. Played ones still at 65+. It's reserved, definitely playable and splashable 3:b:. 4 Jace + 2 The Abyss = total domination.

edit: It will only take one deck to top 8 in SCG for it to increase another $25. It may settle at $150 (Mint Condition).

[ESG]

If you buy 50 hive minds at $0.25 then they become $1.25 that's $1 per hive mind you just gained in value.

The first post of this thread bemoaned the fact that Legacy prices were swiftly rising and it cried, "Why is this happening?" Well, speculation is one of the reasons why. Speculation introduces artificial demand into the market. If you bought 50 cards you don't need -- and I'm not just referring to DTC -- you've permanently given up your right to complain about the expense of any Magic card, because speculation influences prices (even though Hive Mind, for numerous reasons mentioned above, is unlikely to provide much of profit). If anyone in this thread is TRULY concerned about rising Legacy prices, then don't buy stuff you don't need just hoping to score. If only a few people were speculating, the effect wouldn't be felt, but LOTS of people are speculating. Realize that your actions have consequences.

[dahcmai]

It only works with old cards really. Ones that are actually limited supply in the first place. Hive mind can still be bought for around 30 cents each at several stores and I doubt it will change much with the thousands that are out there.

Now if you're doing that with a limited print older card, that's just crappy. It does affect the price quite a bit doing that, though you tend to defeat it somewhat when selling as you re-flood the market.

[Mark Sun]

It only works with old cards really. Ones that are actually limited supply in the first place. Hive mind can still be bought for around 30 cents each at several stores and I doubt it will change much with the thousands that are out there.

Now if you're doing that with a limited print older card, that's just crappy. It does affect the price quite a bit doing that, though you tend to defeat it somewhat when selling as you re-flood the market.

Agree on not investing in Hive Minds. Look at what fuels that type of deck and you will see that Show and Tell, Intuition, and friends are the culprits.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Price of Dark Confidant currently ranging from $30-$40.

[death]

What-cards-you-think-are-undervalued-right-now (mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20762-What-cards-you-think-are-undervalued-right-now&highlight=undervalued)

[Koby]

So, preorder prices are going crazy for <insert new card set here>. Seems normal.

Fixed that for you.

[lorddotm]

Are any Legacy playable?

-Matt

Flusterstorm is arguably better than Pierce.

[keys]

Flusterstorm is arguably better than Pierce.

Not as long as Jace, artifacts, and enchantments still see play. Flusterstorm will be SB material like Mindbreak Trap.

[lorddotm]

Not as long as Jace, artifacts, and enchantments still see play. Flusterstorm will be SB material like Mindbreak Trap.

Pierce isn't really played main anymore.

[Koby]

Flusterstorm is arguably better than Pierce.

I can agree with this statement when regarding Spiral Tide. I don't agree with the statement for the general case however, as keys has stated, it does nothing to stop non-instant, non-creature spells.

[DTC]

The first post of this thread bemoaned the fact that Legacy prices were swiftly rising and it cried, "Why is this happening?" Well, speculation is one of the reasons why. Speculation introduces artificial demand into the market. If you bought 50 cards you don't need -- and I'm not just referring to DTC -- you've permanently given up your right to complain about the expense of any Magic card, because speculation influences prices (even though Hive Mind, for numerous reasons mentioned above, is unlikely to provide much of profit). If anyone in this thread is TRULY concerned about rising Legacy prices, then don't buy stuff you don't need just hoping to score. If only a few people were speculating, the effect wouldn't be felt, but LOTS of people are speculating. Realize that your actions have consequences.

I personally do not speculate and always only get a playset of what i need. At most i might pick up 8 copies of something i know for sure so i have a set to trade out for value, merely stating that people who are speculating on them aren't really doing anything else. Who else wishes they picked up more tarmogoyfs back when they were $3? If someone wants to buy 100 hive minds, that's their business. To be more realistic from my last post if they did somehow manage to sell them ALL for value without flooding the market power to them. I know some financial experts are already buying out commander singles in numbers like 25-50 a card. Geez. When they all decide to pull the trigger it feels like it'll backfire anyway, which is why 8 will always be my cap on cards. A playset to play, and one to trade or use for things like EDH/Cubes/whatever.

Not to mention a bulk rare from a little over a year ago isn't as bad as the dudes hoarding 100s of force of wills in a fireproof safe over the past decade, if you're worried about speculation damaging the legacy market. And yes there are a few people who do have playsets and playsets of dual lands/force of wills just sitting in a binder. In comparison hoarding hive minds almost seems silly.



It only works with old cards really. Ones that are actually limited supply in the first place. Hive mind can still be bought for around 30 cents each at several stores and I doubt it will change much with the thousands that are out there.

Now if you're doing that with a limited print older card, that's just crappy. It does affect the price quite a bit doing that, though you tend to defeat it somewhat when selling as you re-flood the market.

It doesn't change people from doing it. Everyone would like to make a buck. Are you saying had you had the chance to pick up an extra playset of candelabras when they were still $40, you would not have done it?

[sdematt]

Why did Confidant spike?

-Matt

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Why did Confidant spike?

-Matt

Not entirely sure, but it's been stable at $15 for a while. When the Team America/BUG Control decks had an uprising it went up to $20.

Recently the card the was valued at $25 and didn't hit $30 until a couple days ago.

SCG has it listed out of stock at $30, while other retailers (TCGPlayer, ChannelFireball, etc.) are selling it for $40.

On a sidenote I'm surprised Pernicious Deed hasn't spiked yet. IHMO it's been sitting at $15 for too long.

[thoren_]

Dark Confidant spiked because 'trusted' MtG financial wizards went around saying the card was going to hit 30-40$ soon. Those wizards have so much clout in the community, that their fans and the sheeple that follow everything they have to say, went up and bought unnecessary amounts of that card.

It's self-fulling prophecy speculation.

Realistically, the card is still about 15-16$ each on eBay. You try to trade with any of those sheeple who listed to those financial gurus and they'll quote online stores like StarCityGames repeatedly for that 30-40$ price range. Then they'll go back to eBay/Apathy House pricing when they try to low-ball you on the value of your cards.

Not surprised that this is the current state of magic prices we're living in. This happens everytime I try to trade for dual lands too. Talk about how much of a "premium" they're at and quoting of prices from online stores, yet eBay/ApathyHouse has them at the same relative price as last year. Then those same ppl quote eBay/ApathyHouse on my stuff to lowball me.

For shame.

[sdematt]

I remember SCG was selling Confidants at the GP at 25, but I understand that since if you need it to play, you'll pay. It was $15 for a long time, but again, I think this is just people being afraid it'll go up, so they buy, so it goes up. Ridiculous.

-Matt

[ivanpei]

I HATE value traders, truely with a vengeance. They go around buying low and try to sell at just slightly below lgs/scg prices. Making a profit is ok, thats not an issue, but the guys ONLY buy when it's a steal. I hate it when they go through my folder and ask prices for like 20 cards and say no to my 20% under scg prices. They will only buy at 35% to 40% under scg.

Dammit, I might as well sell to scg, douchebags! The worse thing is that because they slightly undercut the local game store, they are hurting their income. Considering the lgs has overhead they need to cover and actually provides a place to play for the community, its very bad for players to buy from value traders.

I get very annoyed when I play against a value trader with 10 force of wills he lowballed cheap during the old days, but plays with PROXY Jace TMS (I see this alot because Jace is so liquid, they can never find someone desperate enough to sell it that cheap). This annoys me to hell as if you wanna put priority on trading and lowballing/hoarding, go open a store. /end rant.

[ESG]

Everyone would like to make a buck. Are you saying had you had the chance to pick up an extra playset of candelabras when they were still $40, you would not have done it?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. This logic could equally be used to defend looting. Everyone loves high prices when they're selling the cards and taking their profits. Everyone loathes high prices when they really need a card for their deck and that card has quadrupled in price because of speculation. We're all part of the same circle, and one person's gain can be another person's loss.

If anyone is truly concerned about rising Legacy prices, the answer is to not wildly inflate the demand. This applies to dual lands, Force of Will, all the stuff on the reserved list, and basically everything people complain about here. If you're a player, you play with the card you bought. If you're speculator, you sit on the card until you decide to sell it. If you're a collector, you stick the card in a binder and admire it, and either sell it eventually or keep it forever.

How many Candelabras would a player use? Maybe 4. How many Candelabras would a speculator grab? Maybe 400. How many Candelabras would a collector purchase? Maybe more than 400, if he or she could afford them. Most of us play at least one of these roles, and some of us play all three, but we need to consider that each role has an impact (which becomes even greater when the supply of a particular card is very limited). So, to answer your question:
* If I am a player truly concerned about the rising price of Legacy cards, I should not buy the Candelabras unless I want them for a deck. I am buying them primarily to play with them. If I have them, another player cannot have them, unless I am also lending them out.
* If I am being a speculator, I should buy as many Candelabras as I can find at the cheapest price I can find them -- the more profit for me, the better. If I have them, players cannot have them. (And I'm probably not lending them out.)
* If I am a collector, I should fulfill my need to collect, regardless of its impact on the game. I'm focused on my collection, not the game. I should buy as many Candelabras as I can.

We all need to think about this, because we are all affected by it.

[plus_ten]

It wasn't me doing any of this! I swear! I buy cards to build decks with and lend out to fellow players!

The problem is also the sticky prices... "What goes up must come down" clearly does not apply to cards to the same degree. Each time a card spikes, it rarely drops back down...

@ESG: Well said! The problem is.. even if we all follow the 'buy-4-to-play' ethic, there are always going to be those 'but-everyone-else-is-doing-it' people in the world. We can't do much just have to live with it... :mad: (clarification: living with it and living BY it are very different things)


my 20% under scg prices. They will only buy at 35% to 40% under scg.

Dude! Come back to Sydney, we need people like you! You can't get anything for a good price for anything here! Even the locals quote SCG price when selling! I post on the local forum to buy at near SCG prices, and I cannot get anything (could be the stock numbers, but still). [/my rant].

[TheAardvark]

Regarding Confidant:



Realistically, the card is still about 15-16$ each on eBay.

The lowest completed price on one in the last week was an auction for 3 ending @ $60; the majority of them are $24+ each, with several breaking $30. So, no, they aren't $15-16 anymore.

[ivanpei]

It wasn't me doing any of this! I swear! I buy cards to build decks with and lend out to fellow players!

The problem is also the sticky prices... "What goes up must come down" clearly does not apply to cards to the same degree. Each time a card spikes, it rarely drops back down...

@ESG: Well said! The problem is.. even if we all follow the 'buy-4-to-play' ethic, there are always going to be those 'but-everyone-else-is-doing-it' people in the world. We can't do much just have to live with it... :mad: (clarification: living with it and living BY it are very different things)


Dude! Come back to Sydney, we need people like you! You can't get anything for a good price for anything here! Even the locals quote SCG price when selling! I post on the local forum to buy at near SCG prices, and I cannot get anything (could be the stock numbers, but still). [/my rant].

I'd love to man, gp Singapore depleted my dollar dollar so I'll have to save up for it. I love Australia. Players there are exactly that, players. You guys don't mind paying fair prices for staples. It's nice when I go back to Sydney/melb that I can get good prices on my alters/ staples/ pimp.

I really want to head back and visit everyone! It's been too long. :)

In Singapore, I had a guy try to get a 3 dollar discount on one of my alters (I was charging 20). Dude, not cool.

[sigfig8]

Not surprised that this is the current state of magic prices we're living in. This happens everytime I try to trade for dual lands too. Talk about how much of a "premium" they're at and quoting of prices from online stores, yet eBay/ApathyHouse has them at the same relative price as last year. Then those same ppl quote eBay/ApathyHouse on my stuff to lowball me.

For shame.

The thing with Dual Lands is, everyone's willing to trade for them but it's so hard to find others who will trade them to me. I had to offer decent value and trade away 2 Forces and a Goyf as part of a trade in order to pick up 2 non-blue duals! And so when someone offers me a Force of Will for a Savannah, yeah Apathy House says they're practically even but I'd MUCH rather have the Savannah since no one trades them!!! That's why when someone wants a dual from me, I DO ask for a little premium. Because they're held so tightly by players and collectors alike!

[GGoober]

I think I did a pretty good trade with:

My: RV EX- Badlands + ~$10 of cards

His:
4 Breeding Pool
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Watery Grave
4 Temple Garden
4 Blood Crypt
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Elspeth, KE

I'm not sure exactly on the fate of the prices for shocks moving foward. If Modern isn't coming on paper, I'm assuming shocks will still creep really slowly since the supply is limited and demand will only slowly increase with EDH. If Modern is announced, do you guys see shocks going for $10-15 a piece? What happens if they reprint shocks in Commander decks? how much would this set them back?

[anonymos]

If Modern is announced, do you guys see shocks going for $10-15 a piece? What happens if they reprint shocks in Commander decks?

Commander decklists are up. No shocklands. A reprint will ding them a lot unless they do the nonsensical thing and make them mythics. If Modern/Overextended gets supported, these could easily hit 20 assuming no reprint.

[Sims]

I think I did a pretty good trade with:

My: RV EX- Badlands + ~$10 of cards

His:
4 Breeding Pool
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Watery Grave
4 Temple Garden
4 Blood Crypt
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Elspeth, KE

I'm not sure exactly on the fate of the prices for shocks moving foward. If Modern isn't coming on paper, I'm assuming shocks will still creep really slowly since the supply is limited and demand will only slowly increase with EDH. If Modern is announced, do you guys see shocks going for $10-15 a piece? What happens if they reprint shocks in Commander decks? how much would this set them back?

I think i would have done that trade in a heart-beat... Budget players want them, EDH players want them, Casual players want them to an extent, and with everyone tossing around ideas for Modern or Overextended or CYOS and variant formats i can see them slowly creeping up even if nothing happens. If modern or OE hits paper, they will jump without reprints so long as the format has any amount of popularity.

If you can find em for cheap enough or have an extra dual or something that you can trade off for large chunks of shocklands it might not be a bad idea to do so.

[AriLax]

I think I did a pretty good trade with:

My: RV EX- Badlands + ~$10 of cards

His:
4 Breeding Pool
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Watery Grave
4 Temple Garden
4 Blood Crypt
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Elspeth, KE

I'm not sure exactly on the fate of the prices for shocks moving foward. If Modern isn't coming on paper, I'm assuming shocks will still creep really slowly since the supply is limited and demand will only slowly increase with EDH. If Modern is announced, do you guys see shocks going for $10-15 a piece? What happens if they reprint shocks in Commander decks? how much would this set them back?

This was an unreal deal. I've regularly been able to move Rav duals for the $20-50 cards that matter at 10+ a piece. You probably could easily flip that for at $100 in trade profit on the trade value of the Badlands.

[2Rach]

This was an unreal deal. I've regularly been able to move Rav duals for the $20-50 cards that matter at 10+ a piece. You probably could easily flip that for at $100 in trade profit on the trade value of the Badlands.
This. You traded max of $50(crappy dual too) for $115(extreme lowballing, $5 each shock and $10 Elspeth). Even the worst shock can easily get $5-6 and this was before Modern speculation. You raped him and made him believe he gave consent.

[GGoober]

Well he valued his shocks at what shocks were valued 2 years ago. He seemed fine with the trade, and knew shocks might creep up but he didn't want the shocks, so I took as many as I could from him since he was valuing the shocks at what they were worth like 1-2 years ago :P

He valued them at:
Blood Crypts $4
Breeding Pools $6
Watery Grave $7
Temple Garden $5
Sacred Foundry $5
Stomping Ground $5
Overgrown Tomb $5

This was pretty much right on the dot 2-3 years back, shocks have creeped slowly since then. I've only begun to realize I should stock up a playset just in case modern is on paper. I don't have intention on selling the shocks if Modern is real. I would actually play Modern since I think it's actually a decent/fun format (still much inferior to Legacy IMO) but there will be a lot more players.

Also, ZEN fetches are slowly going up as well. In particular foil ZEN fetches are no longer at the deal they were before ~$15-18 in the past. Bobs are the truly awesome ones. Because there is no way that Bob should be worth $8 in the past. He should have always been worth $15-20 at the very least. I'm happy Bob is ~$25 now because I think he totally deserves it standing next to other good cards like Goyf. I wouldn't be surprised to see Hierarch/Clique all pick up (KotR is already printed in an additional set so it won't go up too much).

[pw709]

Even at those lower prices for the shocks, why would he value Badlands at $100? I'm sorry, but no matter how you justify it, you ripped him off big time, and posting here asking how you did was a thinly veiled attempt to boast.

And fetches are going down while foil fetches are going up.

[sdematt]

Wow, nice rip-off. I mean, he valued them, but when it's THAT bad, I'd correct it at least a bit, or least buy him dinner afterwards. Damn.

-Matt

[jandax]

This. You traded max of $50(crappy dual too) for $115(extreme lowballing, $5 each shock and $10 Elspeth). Even the worst shock can easily get $5-6 and this was before Modern speculation. You raped him and made him believe he gave consent.

Rape is just a cheatcode to get that ass


And his partner concented, so it wasn't rape

[kiblast]

I think I did a pretty good trade

Well done. Don't listen haters, raping peoples in trades is a very amusing sport.

[Justin]

So by how much do you think Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Stongeforge Mystic will drop now that they are banned in Standard? Seems like a good time for Legacy players to pick these up if they haven't already.

[Tammit67]

So by how much do you think Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Stongeforge Mystic will drop now that they are banned in Standard? Seems like a good time for Legacy players to pick these up if they haven't already.

Jace will come down to about $20ish with SFM around $10 say?

[lordofthepit]

Jace will come down to about $20ish with SFM around $10 say?

Higher for Jace, much lower for SFM.

[dschalter]

Higher for Jace, much lower for SFM.

Stoneforge Mystic will be huge in Extended (or in Modern or Overextended if one of those formats replaces Extended), so I wouldn't say that it will be that much lower, even with the event deck. Jace is pretty hard to predict, but I see him settling around 40.

[Tammit67]

Higher for Jace, much lower for SFM.

I mean there are going to be a bunch as hold overs for standard, even with the smaller print run. If anything, I am low however

[dahcmai]

Jace should hit $30 if not lower since his price is almost solely based on standard despite what people think. He'll hold the most value though since he does have the reputation and usefulness outside of the format. Stoneforge should hit $4-6 and that's probably generous. It's a normal rare, in a pre-con, about to rotate anyway, not an EDH staple, and now relocated completely to Legacy. Now foils on the other hand, will go down then straight back up. Good time to grab some in the next week.

[death]

Jace will bottom at $40, the next few months will be the best time to acquire him. you'll never likely see this card reprinted again (or a broken walker for that matter), it'll slowly climb back up to Goyf range which is $60-70 by next year.

[kiblast]

What are your opinions regarding foil Jaces? I'd say they'll go down a bit in value for some months, then go up again next year, and stay high forever or until a better wincon is printed for blue (probably this will not happen in the next 5 years.). I'd say they'll reach 100$ for a foil copy in the next weeks.

[dahcmai]

They are already dropping to the hundred mark. Probably not going to get too far under that since it's the eternal players wanting the foils anyway.



I have my guesses on what goes up due to these bannings. Splinter Twin goes up even more. So silly. Grave Titan makes it's comeback. Primeval goes even further down. Tezz finally is going to see some play. No effect on Legacy of course.


By the way, have you people noticed the idiotic prices they are getting on some of those commander pre-con rares? Seriously? $20 for Chaos Warp and Flusterstorm is just dumb. Buy the frigging deck, it has both in it. Are people seriously this stupid? I just bought 4 of them and have a playset plus a ton of good tradable items. Dumb, dumb people.

[Sims]

Problem with just buying the decks is that they sold out REALLY fast at a lot of the LGS' in my area. Granted I'm not looking for 4x of each of the new rares that might be played, but the LGS sold out of their extra stock and kept just enough to have a decent game day release on saturday for it and then promptly sold out of on their release event day.

The stores literally could not keep them around long enough to buy 4x of Political Puppets for Chaos Warp and Flusterstorm.

[LostButSeeking]

Problem with just buying the decks is that they sold out REALLY fast at a lot of the LGS' in my area. Granted I'm not looking for 4x of each of the new rares that might be played, but the LGS sold out of their extra stock and kept just enough to have a decent game day release on saturday for it and then promptly sold out of on their release event day.

The stores literally could not keep them around long enough to buy 4x of Political Puppets for Chaos Warp and Flusterstorm.

Yeah, none of my three local gaming stores even GOT their commander product, it was apparently bought out from under them at the distributors. I guess I've just got to be patient and trust that Wizards made enough product . . .

[Sims]

Next printing is supposed to be in August, and normally with a release like this the big box chains will end up having them within the next month. So if your LGS doesn't have them, check into big box.

I know, support your LGS and not Wally World or Target for Bombing, but if your LGS doesn't have them, you do what you have to.

[ns2973]

3rd week of july is what my buddy who runs my LGS told me. He has ALL the decks in japanese as well, which i thought was cool.

[AriLax]

I would actually be surprised if Jace drops below at the absolute least $45 on Ebay after this. The card is still in huge demand in every format but Standard, and a lot of people were already selling out of that format.

[cdr]

Next printing is supposed to be in August, and normally with a release like this the big box chains will end up having them within the next month. So if your LGS doesn't have them, check into big box.

I know, support your LGS and not Wally World or Target for Bombing, but if your LGS doesn't have them, you do what you have to.

Chains almost always carry very low stock of CCG products, so maybe one or two of each. I've tried picking up other products like Duel Decks at chain stores, and it doesn't usually go as well as you'd hope.


I would actually be surprised if Jace drops below at the absolute least $45 on Ebay after this. The card is still in huge demand in every format but Standard, and a lot of people were already selling out of that format.

This. Beyond the demand, people that already have Jaces are less likely to get rid of them because they have long-term value in every other format.

[keys]

I would actually be surprised if Jace drops below at the absolute least $45 on Ebay after this. The card is still in huge demand in every format but Standard, and a lot of people were already selling out of that format.

I think you might be surprised, then. Standard is still bigger than Legacy, and everyone is going to be unloading them to raise money for new decks. The ban will speed up what would have been a much slower decline. Combine this with the fact that a lot of Eternal players have picked them up already, the market is going to be glutted for a little while. I don't think $45 is too low, and I can see them hitting $35-40 before climbing back up to $45. I imagine they'll creep up to Goyf levels in a year or so. Foils, on the other hand, were bought mostly by Eternal players to begin with, so I don't see those dropping far below $100.

[atropos]

@ Jace, the Mind Sculptor conversation: I play strictly Legacy and I'm thrilled the price is going to drop. Now I can actually afford some.

Stoneforge Mystic has gone down quite a bit as well but has anybody else noticed the other two-drop card advantage creature has gone up a good deal? Dark Confidant is $30 and sold out on StarCity and he averages $43 on magiccards.info. I haven't payed that close attention to his price but I don't remember him being more than $12 or $15 most of the time.

[death]

One of the previous posters above you may have something to do with it.

[PanderAlexander]

Stoneforge Mystic[/cards] has gone down quite a bit as well but has anybody else noticed the other two-drop card advantage creature has gone up a good deal? Dark Confidant is $30 and sold out on StarCity and he averages $43 on magiccards.info. I haven't payed that close attention to his price but I don't remember him being more than $12 or $15 most of the time.

There was a thread about what cards were undervalued and Dark Confidants was the overwhelming vote. This was a couple weeks ago and Dark Confidant was at $15, since then many people (including my friend who bought 70 Dark Confidants in like two days):
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?4607-Bragging-Pimp-Legacy-Decks&p=553720&viewfull=1#post553720
bought up a lot of the inventory, I don't know if it's because of the speculation, supply, or demand but the price has doubled to $30 now.

[sdematt]

People said it was undervalued, many people speculated, price goes up. Pretty simple. It's been done with a bunch of cards. Was it undervalued? Sure. But, people are pushing it for the sake of pushing it, and only jumped due to speculation, not a sudden realization of value.

-Matt

[soltakar]

Stoneforge Mystic continues to drop: "slashed" to $7.50 on SCG and down to $7.99 on Channel-Fireball. I think this will end up around the $5 mark looking at how many are in stock at both.

Dark Confidant is still sold out on SCG at $30 and up to $50 on Channel-Fireball. I expect it to jump on SCG if they ever get them back in stock. Can't believe how quickly this card has shot up.

[dahcmai]

The more interesting story will be which cards follow him in his rise. There's plenty of other staples in Ravnica and the other close sets. Golgari Grave Troll being the best dredger there is surprises me all the time that he's so cheap.

[GGoober]

The more interesting story will be which cards follow him in his rise. There's plenty of other staples in Ravnica and the other close sets. Golgari Grave Troll being the best dredger there is surprises me all the time that he's so cheap.

I see what you're doing there Dachmai :P

Trying to get the Bob-hype going on other cards: "Bob is severely underrated", everyone starts speculating and buy them up, now let's do the same for Grave-Troll!

I want to remind people, in the meantime, how powerful and underrated Clique is, let's speculate on that one too although it really won't surprise me if she went to $15-20. She's printed in a small set, and will be a house in Modern/Overextended, if she's not already a house in Legacy..

Turn 1 Hierarch, Turn 2 Clique is usually very backbreaking for most mid-range/control/combo decks.

[KindGrind]

True, there's no reason why Clique wouldn't be worth as much as Kira, for example.

I'm a bit disappointed Jace was banned and it tanked, to be honest. I made the move 2 weeks ago and bought a pair at a bit less than 60$ each, which I mistakenly thought would be the bottom for a while. First time I get burned like that since I bought back into the game in 2009. I don't know what got into me, buying that close to a B/R announcement and all. On a more positive note, I did trade my 4x SFM for a playset of Show and Tell when both were 25$. Makes up for my eagerness to play Deedstill again...

I've been wondering, regarding Akroma's Memorial. I imagine EDH drove this through the roof? Or it's worth so much because of its casual appeal, too, much like... Doubling Season?

[death]

Grindstone has been $20 for ages elsewhere even after all that SCG top 8s. I mean it's supply is pretty limited and should be worth more after all that winnings.

Also, Natural Order at $30, it's limited and in case you still haven't recognize just how easy it is to put away games with it, much like Painter's Stone.

[lordofthepit]

Grindstone has been $20 for ages elsewhere even after all that SCG top 8s. I mean it's supply is pretty limited and should be worth more after all that winnings.

Also, Natural Order at $30, it's limited and in case you still haven't recognize just how easy it is to put away games with it, much like Painter's Stone.

Interestingly, Natural Order is not on the reserved list.

[pokezel]

And now Grim Lavamancer is being printed in M12. Red is very well-positioned in the standard metagame right now, so if there aren't chase mythics in the set and not much is sold, his price could go way up.

[cdr]

Short of being mythic, being printed in a base set should only depress the price of a card. Even if it's really good. See: Pithing Needle.

[pokezel]

Short of being mythic, being printed in a base set should only depress the price of a card. Even if it's really good. See: Pithing Needle.

Pithing Needle didn't didn't see extensive play in standard and only sees play as 1-2 ofs in Legacy, so the inflated price it began at (since no one bought Saviors) basically popped once it got overprinted. Grim Lavamancer sees 3-4 of play in Legacy and will likely see 4 of play in Standard. If there are chase mythics in M12, then the regular rares will continue to be worthless unless they go in every deck. (See: Inkmoth Nexus) If there aren't chase mythics pulling the price away from regular rares, then Grim Lavamancer might go up.

[Nessaja]

There's quite a large supply for Lavamancer. Many people bought Fire&Lightning, we got the Judge reward and the original printing. M12 will be drafted because it has new planeswalkers. No way that Grim Lavamancer goes higher and if it does, only for a short time.

[CorpT]

The Titans are being reprinted, so there are plenty of reasons to bust packs. Lavamancer price can only go down. Most of the people who want Lavamancer in Legacy have him already as he is not usually the barrier to a deck like Tarmogoyf would be. Look at Fauna Shaman. Even though she was in a busted Legacy deck, the huge supply kept her at reasonable prices. The same will happen with Lavamancer except he's a re-print.

If you'd like to go long on some Lavamancers...

[birds of paradise2]

This thread harms legacy in the way that it drives speculation and make the entry barrier even higher. Threads that have a negative impact such as this should be locked in my opinion.

[trivial_matters]

Yes, because every shop owner and eBay seller reads The Source, looking for the next hot card.

[BenBleiweiss]

Stoneforge Mystic continues to drop: "slashed" to $7.50 on SCG and down to $7.99 on Channel-Fireball. I think this will end up around the $5 mark looking at how many are in stock at both.

Dark Confidant is still sold out on SCG at $30 and up to $50 on Channel-Fireball. I expect it to jump on SCG if they ever get them back in stock. Can't believe how quickly this card has shot up.

Dark Confidant is finishing at $25 - $35 each with dozens of results on E-bay. Ravnica was a very heavily opened set. I don't know what other vendors are doing with the card, but I see no reason to go above the $30ish range. This just seems like a repeat of the Sword of Fire and Ice price jump, except this time around SCG is not going to be playing this game :)

- Ben

[Mr.Dieth]

No, the shops wont, but some random person will. Like the situation with the confidant's, they are shooting up. A little while ago everyone in this thread was saying it was undervalued etc etc. Then someone Bought 70 (!) of them. Look a few pages back, there is a link to the picture. This creates a sort of snow ball effect. the dealers have to up their prices. people see that the dealers do that. So they will also buy some, 'cause they think it is going up. And because people do this the card GOES up, Self-forfilling prophecy ..

So yea, this thread isn't helpfull for the format in a way.

[John Cox]

Just on another note anyone have a guess as to whether beta sol rings will drop in value with all the commander product around I would like to get one.

[cdr]

Just on another note anyone have a guess as to whether beta sol rings will drop in value with all the commander product around I would like to get one.

Beta? No. Revised? Possibly.

[John Cox]

Yeah, that was my thinking. Its already seen a tonne of print recently. Here's to hoping!

[dontbiteitholmes]

Yeah Lavamancer will be going down. He'll have been printed twice in the past year and there are plenty of other printings of him going around. I'm actually pretty excited for red in new standard. I've officially bought in on 4x Chandra's Phoenix preorder at under $11. I know he's the box promo, but I can't imagine a scenario where he goes below $3 with so many strong red spells available.

[sdematt]

Beta prices don't go down even if they're reprinted in Commander. Revised on the other hand can be used as proxies again (not really, but they'll be back at $5-8).

Even if they reprinted revised duals, Beta wouldn't drop, or not by much.

-Matt

[John Cox]

What about the GP foil? I have revised and FTV sol rings and want something snazzier.

[cdr]

Judge foil, not GP Foil. And the judge foil Sol Ring had low circulation - lower than beta, probably - so it's never going down in price either.

Cards in Commander decks are not going to hurt the price of any version of a card that's valued for collectibility more than playability.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Yeah Lavamancer will be going down. He'll have been printed twice in the past year and there are plenty of other printings of him going around. I'm actually pretty excited for red in new standard. I've officially bought in on 4x Chandra's Phoenix preorder at under $11. I know he's the box promo, but I can't imagine a scenario where he goes below $3 with so many strong red spells available.


No, the shops wont, but some random person will. Like the situation with the confidant's, they are shooting up. A little while ago everyone in this thread was saying it was undervalued etc etc. Then someone Bought 70 (!) of them. Look a few pages back, there is a link to the picture. This creates a sort of snow ball effect. the dealers have to up their prices. people see that the dealers do that. So they will also buy some, 'cause they think it is going up. And because people do this the card GOES up, Self-forfilling prophecy ..

So yea, this thread isn't helpfull for the format in a way.

Yeah, that's fine and all for them when it works, but people who speculate like this are playing with fire. I mean sure it worked out for the dude this time, he has 70 Confidant's and they gained 70% in a month, but how often do cards almost double in such a short period of time? I mean if someone had speculated say Stifle 3 years ago and bought 70, the price has barely moved and now that Misstep is taking that slot in a lot of decks and it falls outside of Modern it isn't likely to be moving anytime soon. That means you would have wasted around $700 only to either have to sell all 70 at no profit or continue to hold them until they jump again and hope to god they don't reprint and completely crash the value. I mean for all of legacy's big movers there are plenty of perfectly good cards that would have been either a net loss or haven't even matched inflation. So if people want to speculate let them. Eventually they are just going to get burned if they do things like buy 70x of one card.


yeah moat was $80 6 months ago and now is $150
tabernacle was $100 and is now $200+

No way boss, even Italian Moats have been ~$140 for at least a year.

[sdematt]

In the summer of 2009, Moats were $100, since I bought 4 of them for Dutch Stax. Italian were $60 at that time.

Tabernacles went up in late October 2009, and spiked to peak in late December 2009 early January 2010. I remember because I bought seven for my birthday present :P

-Matt

[dontbiteitholmes]

In the summer of 2009, Moats were $100, since I bought 4 of them for Dutch Stax. Italian were $60 at that time.

Tabernacles went up in late October 2009, and spiked to peak in late December 2009 early January 2010. I remember because I bought seven for my birthday present :P

-Matt

Yeah disregard that I accidentally viewed the first page instead of the last so I replied to a really old post.

[John Cox]

Judge foil, not GP Foil. And the judge foil Sol Ring had low circulation - lower than beta, probably - so it's never going down in price either.

Cards in Commander decks are not going to hurt the price of any version of a card that's valued for collectibility more than playability.

Wasn't it given out at Gp London (2005) or something? I for some reason thought it was a foil that had an association with a GP.

[hyperchord24]

In regards to Grim Lavamancer, time warp was reprinted (and bumped from uncommn to rare) in M10 and it went from 1-2 USD to 8-10 USD. It was featured in a very popular standard deck and extended as well, if I recall correctly. Couldn't grim lavamancer do the same thing if it becomes a part of a very popular deck?

[Roman Candle]

In regards to Grim Lavamancer, time warp was reprinted (and bumped from uncommn to rare) in M10 and it went from 1-2 USD to 8-10 USD. It was featured in a very popular standard deck and extended as well, if I recall correctly. Couldn't grim lavamancer do the same thing if it becomes a part of a very popular deck?

Time Warp was reprinted as a Mythic, which kind of explains the high price.