Humility and Dredge

[Raptor]

Just kidding, it's not another question about humility.

I've been wondering about some ruling with dredge.


1) I have a Putrid Imp in play. I play breakthrough, I ask my opponent if it passes, he says yes. After that he says that it passes, do I have the right to discard a dredger or I should have discard it before asking my opponent if my breakthrough passed ?


2) I decide to dredge, I have three creatures in play. I just dredged a dread return. Will my opponent be able to have the priority to sword my creature before I attempt to cast Dread return?

I'm pretty sure he can, but here is the second part of that question. Assuming it's the same situation as above, do I need to say that I'm going to main phase. Or can I just dredge, ask my opponent "ok?" and if he says yes I can just say I'll dread return it. I mean do I completly need to say "Is it ok if I go to main phase ?" or my "ok?" was enough. Because I wouldn't want something like this to happen in a round :

(my opponent doesn't notice that I can dread return a "bigfatcowthatisgoingtomakehimscoop")

1- I dredge into DR
2- Ask him "ok ?"
3- He says "yes"
4- I say "I dread return a "bigfatcowthatisgoingtomakehimscoop""
5- He says "wait.... I could have sworded a creature, you didn't let me the time to answer. JUDDDDDDDDDDDDDGE"



Thanks a lot!


Thanks a lot.

[mchainmail]

1. You automatically pass priority after casting a spell (unless you specify that you wish to retain it.) When your opponent passes priority back, the top card of the stack resolves (in this case Breakthrough) and you have no opportunity to discard.

2. After the resolution of a spell or ability, the Active Player (in this case the dredge player) gets priority. Sacrificing creatures is a cost required to put Dread Return on the stack, so they are no longer in play when he gets priority.

[Raptor]

1. You automatically pass priority after casting a spell (unless you specify that you wish to retain it.) When your opponent passes priority back, the top card of the stack resolves (in this case Breakthrough) and you have no opportunity to discard.

2. After the resolution of a spell or ability, the Active Player (in this case the dredge player) gets priority. Sacrificing creatures is a cost required to put Dread Return on the stack, so they are no longer in play when he gets priority.

For the second part, it's not really what I was asking. I'm saying I just dredged, and I go to mainphase. Does he get the priority after the dredges or do I keep the priority the whole time.

[4eak]

1) You won't be able to discard in this case. When you passed priority, and asked him "does it resolve?", and he passes priority back saying "it resolves", then you must resolve Breakthrough.

2)
I decide to dredge, I have three creatures in play. I just dredged a dread return. Will my opponent be able to have the priority to sword my creature before I attempt to cast Dread return?

It depends.

If you have dredged outside of your mainphase (when you could cast Dread Return), then yes, your opponent will have an opportunity to StP a creature. If you dredged during your mainphase, and would immediately move to cast (and pay for) DR after that dredge, then no, your opponent can't StP.

If you are dredging during your mainphase due to Careful Study (for example):

Careful Study->Dredge
Sacrifice 3 creature or DR->etc.

Your opponent will not have priority to play StP after he would see the recently dredged Dread Return and before you could safely pay for it. If you tried to activate a CColiseum after you resolved Careful Study and before you cast Dread return, then you would open yourself up to StP while DR was in your graveyard.

If you are dredging during your draw step, and thus before your main phase:

Draw Step->Dredge
Both players pass priority with nothing on the stack->Move to first main phase
Sacrifice 3 creatures for DR->etc.

At step 2, your opponent has the opportunity to play StP before moving to your main phase, and thus before you could cast DR.


I'm pretty sure he can, but here is the second part of that question. Assuming it's the same situation as above, do I need to say that I'm going to main phase. Or can I just dredge, ask my opponent "ok?" and if he says yes I can just say I'll dread return it. I mean do I completly need to say "Is it ok if I go to main phase ?" or my "ok?" was enough. Because I wouldn't want something like this to happen in a round

I try to be as clear as possible (even if it will cost me games). If it will matter, then I will specifically state what I'm doing; in this case, I would want my opponent to know we are moving the a mainphase. I have seen people just say "okay?" though, and I have no problem with that (I don't know the ruling though). On the other side of the table, I've also had to back people up who didn't give me a chance to StP and immediately went to casting DR.





peace,
4eak

[jthanatos]

1. You need to discard before the spell resolves. As soon as both players pass priority, the spell resolves. Per your example, you would not be able to discard.

2. Depends on when you are dredging. If it is your main phase via breakthrough and the like, you would have priority again after dredging and would be able to sac for the flashback cost before your opponent would get priority.

I am guessing from your example you are dredging in your draw step. In that case, if he lets you pass into your main phase, once again you will start with priority. However, I am unsure if just asking "Ok?" in this context is enough to indicate he is passing into the main phase, better wait for a judge to weigh in on that.

[Raptor]

Thanks 4eak for the clear answer, I was talking about dredging in the drawstep, sorry for not mentioning.


Also, I obviously let my opponent sometimes to check my dredge and ask him if it's ok. I just don't want to ask "Do you have an answer or do I go to mainphase". It could cost me games.

[mchainmail]

Sorry about that. I was thinking of careful study / breakthrough / deep analysis, and not your draw step dredge (where he can swords your dude.)

[Ozymandias]

Thanks 4eak for the clear answer, I was talking about dredging in the drawstep, sorry for not mentioning.


Also, I obviously let my opponent sometimes to check my dredge and ask him if it's ok. I just don't want to ask "Do you have an answer or do I go to mainphase". It could cost me games.

I just announce every single phase/trigger as I try to move into it, in the same querulous tone.

"Upkeep, discard golgari-grave-troll, remove Ichorid to Ichorid, draw? Replace with dredge, one, two, three, four, I'll deal with the narcomoeba in a minute, five, six, return narcomoeba to play? Main? And so on.

Generally, opponents are well-informed about the phases, and the correct time to swords ichorid, sac to ravager, etc, so it's mostly better bookkeeping this way.

[Raptor]

I'm rebumping the topic to just be sure of the ruling of this :

1) I have a city of brass and cephalid coliseum in play. 2 Ichorids in the grave, but no other black creatures.
2) I hardcast a narcomoeba
Can the following happens :
untap, put the 2 ichorids trigger on the stack and in response, I sacrifice my cephalid coliseum and start dredging. I find 2 black creatures in my dredge, I remove them to ichorids.

Is this legal ?

[SlopeeJ]

yea as long as the ichorid is in you graveyard at the start of your upkeep and you have thresh for the coliseum you can activate in response to the triggers.

not sure what casting the narc has to do with it

[verf]

yea as long as the ichorid is in you graveyard at the start of your upkeep and you have thresh for the coliseum you can activate in response to the triggers.

not sure what casting the narc has to do with it

He cast the narc on his last turn. Meaning his lands are tapped so he cant crack the coliseum at opponents E.O.T.