[Free Article] Your Complete Guide to Legacy: The 50 Decks of Legacy [Archive]

Jak

01-25-2010, 03:57 AM

Link (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/18707_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Your_EmCompleteem_Guide_to_Legacy_The_50_Decks_of_Legacy.html)

In this comprehensive article, Stephen Menendian discusses fifty of the most popular decks in modern Legacy. From CounterTop to Threshold, from Enchantress to Merfolk, from Eva Green to Goblins to 38 Land to Belcher… they’re all here! This is a fantastic primer on the format, perfect for beginners and experts alike.

Pretty extensive article. This is perfect for beginners. Mucho props. Now, people, go ahead and pick apart his decisions.

Edit- Title gut cut a bit :/

TheInfamousBearAssassin

01-25-2010, 04:46 AM

I thought it was an entertaining read. I know that many people (self included) have complained about the "welcome to Legacy" format of article, as it's been done to Hell and back, but it can still be useful if it actually brings something new to the table. For sheer depth of archetype exploration I don't think I've seen anything to beat this. Well done overall.

Forbiddian

01-25-2010, 05:24 AM

I thought he really underestimated the effect of storm combo.

The top 10 picks were:

Countertop, Merfolk, Zoo, Canadian Thresh, Aggro Loam, Lands (he calls these the decks you will certainly face). And then Dredge, Ad Nauseum, Goblins, and Burn round out the top 10 and are the first four picks for "decks you might face." I think that's almost backward.

There's no way you don't face Merfolk, ANT, and Goblins, and comparatively, it's very likely you can skip at least the Lands matchup. From the data I've seen: Merfolk is on top, then ANT, then Zoo, then Countertop (in terms of most common MUs). ANT is not winning tournaments or even doing that well, but it's a huge part of the metagame, and the primary reason why Merfolk is doing so well (Merfolk pulled off 10-2 against ANT during the last two SCGs events).

I'll use his data for the next part (although he's missing a few matches, just because I have it open, I'll use his parse):

Merfolk played: Ad Nauseum 11 times, Dredge 6 times, Countertop 9 times, Goblins 9 times, Zoo 8 times, Aggro Loam 8 times, Burn 10 times, Threshold 6 times, Belcher 3 times, Survival 7 times... and Lands just 3 times. But Lands was his pick for a deck that you'll certainly see and Ad Nauseum and Burn aren't seen for several slots later.

Happy to see NoGoyf in a high publicity spot!

crow_mw

01-25-2010, 07:02 AM

The suggested lists, at least for certain archetypes, seem hardly representative. Staff of domination in BG Rock? Wtf...

Jak

01-25-2010, 07:32 AM

The suggested lists, at least for certain archetypes, seem hardly representative. Staff of domination in BG Rock? Wtf...

It's Truffle Shuffle mislabeled. I think this was a great article for newer players to see all the different decks in Legacy, but I feel some of the information is wrong like Lands being something you are likely to see over most of the decks on that list. Some of the lists make me cringe as well.

Still, the article was amazing and the criticisms are very small.

Atwa

01-25-2010, 07:51 AM

The suggested lists, at least for certain archetypes, seem hardly representative. Staff of domination in BG Rock? Wtf...

Haha, that would be IBA's Train Wreck deck.I missed the list in the article, but that deck was golden. Nothing beats playing Helldozer, Staff of Domination and Damnation in 1 pile.

Decent article though.

Gui

01-25-2010, 08:19 AM

Can't see it since I'm not premium. Could you spoiler ALL the decks chosen on the list?
I already know stompy isn't there ='(

C.P.

01-25-2010, 10:17 AM

Props for a great article.

Some archetypes seemed just bit...forced, but otherwise very fun read.

Aggro_zombies

01-25-2010, 11:29 AM

Ninjas? Ninjas? Are you fucking serious?

Also, what's this drama he apologized for? Does it having something to do with the seven plows issue from his last Legacy article?

Goaswerfraiejen

01-25-2010, 11:47 AM

Ninjas? Ninjas? Are you fucking serious?

Well, in fairness, they run rampant on MWS. =/

Any chance that Intuition Aggro-Control (preferably UGB) got a mention?

Eldariel

01-25-2010, 11:50 AM

Well, if "Intuition Aggro-Control" (could you actually come up with any less precise archetype definition?) refers to ITF, yes. Otherwise, no. And the drama is about...a forum shitstorm, basically.

Mark Sun

01-25-2010, 11:55 AM

I'm confused as to what the apology was concerning at the beginning. Anyone care to elaborate?

Anyways, this article is off the hook, can't wait to read this one during class.

Anusien

01-25-2010, 12:11 PM

I thought he really underestimated the effect of storm combo.

The top 10 picks were:

Countertop, Merfolk, Zoo, Canadian Thresh, Aggro Loam, Lands (he calls these the decks you will certainly face). And then Dredge, Ad Nauseum, Goblins, and Burn round out the top 10 and are the first four picks for "decks you might face." I think that's almost backward.

There's no way you don't face Merfolk, ANT, and Goblins, and comparatively, it's very likely you can skip at least the Lands matchup. From the data I've seen: Merfolk is on top, then ANT, then Zoo, then Countertop (in terms of most common MUs). ANT is not winning tournaments or even doing that well, but it's a huge part of the metagame, and the primary reason why Merfolk is doing so well (Merfolk pulled off 10-2 against ANT during the last two SCGs events).
Based on results from the SCG $5ks, Stephen appears to be almost spot-on. But Countertop is significantly less apparent in the metagame than any of the others. If you look at the decks that are winning and doing well at $5ks, it's Zoo, Merfolk, and Loam decks.

Volt

01-25-2010, 12:33 PM

Superb. Well done, Stephen!

Forbiddian

01-25-2010, 01:41 PM

Based on results from the SCG $5ks, Stephen appears to be almost spot-on. But Countertop is significantly less apparent in the metagame than any of the others. If you look at the decks that are winning and doing well at $5ks, it's Zoo, Merfolk, and Loam decks.

Are you looking at the decks that are winning or the decks that are present? Or some weird combination of both?

Loam doesn't have a single top 8. Merfolk has 3, NoGoyf and Zoo each have 2. Those are the only decks with > 1 placing.

I was simply going by #decks in the meta. This would push Counterbalance way down to like 4th or 5th place (from 1st) and drop Lands.dec from 6th to 12th or 15th. But if you're going straight by performance, then NoGoyf should be on top. It had the highest game win and match win percentage in both tournaments of any archetype. And then if you're going by performance and concentration in the meta, then probably Belcher would be much higher on the list, since it had a lot of plays and only had one sub-500 player as well as a couple top 8s/16s and then some people missing the money by tiebreakers (like 17th place).

So I guess it's not clear, but at any rate, which criteria are being used to select the list, but I can't think of any criteria that would put Counterbalance or Lands nearly that high on the list.

Which criteria are you actually looking at where Stephen is "spot-on"? Please be specific.

KrzyMoose

01-25-2010, 01:52 PM

Are you looking at the decks that are winning or the decks that are present? Or some weird combination of both?

Loam doesn't have a single top 8. Merfolk has 3, NoGoyf and Zoo each have 2. Those are the only decks with > 1 placing.

Uh...what, exactly, are you looking at?

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t[C1]=leg&start_date=2009-12-13&end_date=2009-12-20

There are two Aggro Loam decks in the top 8 of that one. Zoo has more than 2, Merfolk has more than 3. CounterTop has more than 1. Your numbers are way off.

This article was fantastic, and gives an accurate picture of the metagame.

Forbiddian

01-25-2010, 02:03 PM

Link is broken, but I thought it was clear from context he was only talking about SCGs events from this year (for which there's detailed metagame information).

There's no detailed metagame information available from the previous 5ks, so I thought nobody was looking at those.

Smmenen

01-25-2010, 02:16 PM

Bardo

01-25-2010, 02:20 PM

Can't see it since I'm not premium. Could you spoiler ALL the decks chosen on the list?
I already know stompy isn't there ='(

Nope. Also, no whining about premium. Next one who does it in this thread gets a full warning.

Phoenix Ignition

01-25-2010, 02:44 PM

Are you looking at the decks that are winning or the decks that are present? Or some weird combination of both?

Loam doesn't have a single top 8. Merfolk has 3, NoGoyf and Zoo each have 2. Those are the only decks with > 1 placing.

What's your definition of top 8? I thought winning was top 8ing, and Aggro loam took down St. Louis...
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=30538

It also took 6th place at the same event.

Your information seems off...

Aggro_zombies

01-25-2010, 04:05 PM

Aggro Loam also got Top 16 at Dallas. It's continued to do well in various events despite being a relatively "new" deck in the American metagame (by this, I mean there are fewer long-time players with extensive experience with the deck). It also continues to do well in Europe, although the four-color white versions seem to be the better ones there.

As a share of the metagame, it's a minor deck compared to the piles of blue-based aggro-control, Zoo, or combo.

Kuma

01-25-2010, 04:55 PM

This was an awesome article, although I started skimming around deck #25 or so.

I don't think I've ever read an article that has analyzed the Legacy metagame on such a deep level with this much empirical data to back up its claims. This must have taken forever to compile and Steve deserves mad props for assembling this. Some of the lists didn't look optimal, but that's not Steve's fault, he's just posting what has worked in large tournaments. A few notable decks like Gbw Aggro Elves, (arguably the most underrated deck in the format, IMO. It's like running Goblins with NO/Progenitus as a backup strategy) 9 land stompy, MGCA, and Painter were missing, but again that's because they haven't done much at large tournaments recently. The biggest problem I see is GRb Survival at 14 and Bant Survival at 42, but Bant Survival is a new contender that has only recently gained prominence due to the Loyal Retainers/Iona, Shield of Emeria combo. Give it a few more tournaments, and Bant Survival will be a top contender in Legacy. The only thing that could hold it back is the price of Loyal Retainers.

It's awesome to see some friends' lists up there too. Congrats guys!

Jon Stewart

01-25-2010, 05:20 PM

Did this article pick 50 decks that are still viable in and relevent to modern legacy?

Haha, that would be IBA's Train Wreck deck.I missed the list in the article, but that deck was golden. Nothing beats playing Helldozer, Staff of Domination and Damnation in 1 pile.

Decent article though.

Train Wreck has pretty much been janky, for what, like 2 years now. It was designed for a very narrow metagame. IBA abandoned it once the metagame shifted. So why is it still considered relevent?

Then again, I don't have premium, so the list may have contained a number of decks that are no longer viable, or have long since been abandoned.

Smmenen

01-27-2010, 12:20 AM

This article is no longer premium. It's FREE!

Take a look!

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/18707_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Your_EmCompleteem_Guide_to_Legacy_The_50_Decks_of_Legacy.html

Parcher

01-27-2010, 12:28 AM

I don't care how many times you try to promote it here. I'm not paying for.......oh.

Well.....ok then.

EDIT: Kidding aside, this is a win-win-win situation, and a very smart move by SCG. Open information is a necessity to propagating the format.

Bardo

01-27-2010, 12:30 AM

Pretty much the only MtG article I'd like to see as part of the (Lunar) Doomsday Ark (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article3511818.ece) project.

Well done, Stephen.

Anusien

01-27-2010, 12:37 AM

You keeping up and letting people know when your articles become free is one of the coolest things you do.

Plus, statistical analysis of decks is always awesome!

Smmenen

01-27-2010, 12:58 AM

Thanks guys :)

FoulQ

01-27-2010, 01:21 AM

This is definitely the best legacy article of all time. Congrats man.

Eksem

01-27-2010, 03:43 AM

Agreed, this is a fantastic article! And much needed too, as meta gaming in Legacy is getting harder and harder every... hour, almost.

Sevryn

01-27-2010, 04:26 AM

This article is no longer premium. It's FREE!

Take a look!

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/18707_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Your_EmCompleteem_Guide_to_Legacy_The_50_Decks_of_Legacy.html

First of all, thank you for this article. You hit basically all of the bases, making this the best intro-to-legacy article ever, while having enough decklists to keep everyone else interested, too.

Some minor criticisms:
-You said that Lands has no way to deal with Progenitus, but Glacial Chasm very much does deal.
-Survival decks are now packing Loyal Retainers/Iona combo.

So glad this was made free!

Digital Devil

01-27-2010, 04:34 AM

I feel some of the information is wrong like Lands being something you are likely to see over most of the decks on that list. Some of the lists make me cringe as well.
This. We shouldn't trust nerds. If their taxa isn't in danger of extinction without ever interacting with a woman, then there must be something we are unaware of.

P.S. I found the sourcer's discussion to be more interesting and insightful than the article itself. (disclaimer: I didn't say the article was bad)

Skeggi

01-27-2010, 04:39 AM

Just a word of advice: if you will use this article as a basis to prepare for GP Madrid, you're in for a big disappointment. The data and decklists don't match what we find in Europe. For instance, here, in Europe, ANT beats Aggro Loam. And there are many more instances of data that simply doesn't comply with the European metagame and European results. I'm sure the data is all good for America, but for Europe, it doesn't make alot of sense.

Kilz88

01-27-2010, 05:27 AM

Honestly, this article had the opportunity to be fantastic. The idea of it at least. The problem is it was compiled from a few SCG events. If the info was compiled from deckcheck.net then it would be a lot more accurate. On top of this, the lists were all over the place. There were many examples but one specific one I can think of is the affinity list and the Canadian thresh list. The affinity was running a 1 of canonist, vial, and thopter foundry. The thresh list was running 2 grim lavamancer. That is literally the only list I have ever seen running that. It is almost always vendillion clique or bounce spells.

Another weird thing, Enchantress just won one of those events....This was not even mentioned. It beat all of those decks, yet it was merely listed as a deck possibility. Landstill was also pushed aside this way. It is a very serious deck that I have yet to not face in a tournament in about a year and a half. It is an incredible threat. Considering legacy worlds would have at least been informative. I appreciate the time Steve put in here but I feel that it really fell short of its possible threshold. The End.

godryk

01-27-2010, 06:25 AM

Great article, seems a hard work... but I have to agree with some of the above comments, the article is made from a pair of SCG events. It would be much more interesting writing something like this just right after the SCG Open series would finish. Of course it would be nice to have an article regarding non-SCG tournaments... even non US tournaments (I've heard there are quite few out there), but I understand they have a huge amount of data about their tournaments, and its great that Stephen used it.

BTW, I made a brekdown of CB decks performing last December and Supreme Blue lists were the more successfull.

Eksem

01-27-2010, 06:30 AM

Stil, Nekrataals DeckCheck-compilation shows pretty much the same thing, doesn't it? There are some differences (XX Lands cannot possiby be that big of a deck), and Nekrataal's compilation seems to mirror my meta a little bit better, but all in all, they have both identified the same basic major players in the format.

That the lists are a bit odd is to be expected when you show actual winning decks. They always have some odd peices like a 1-of Terminate in the Loam-deck and such. I can agree that more "typical" lists would be good for people new to the format, but I cannot imagine how much work that would have been (it's 50 decks!), and there is apparently quite a lot of work behind this article as it is.

Tychoides

01-27-2010, 08:35 AM

As someone who has played Magic a long, long time (16 years, off and on) and coming back to play some Legacy very recently, I found this article immensely helpful. Considering the scope and volume of the decks covered, I think Smmenen did an awesome job. Also, I think it's really sweet that SCG made this a free article, too!

I was really glad to see Stax mentioned (and snagging a 1st place!), but I was really hoping to get some more analysis on it. Maybe another time! :)

Skeggi

01-27-2010, 08:44 AM

I was really glad to see Stax mentioned (and snagging a 1st place!), but I was really hoping to get some more analysis on it. Maybe another time! :)
If you would like to read more about Stax I suggest http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?6044-[Deck]-Armageddon-Stax

Edit: you can't click the link, you'll have to copy+paste it into your browser.

You can click the link. ~Nightmare

Edit2: Oh right, apparently it fixes itself or something.

majikal

01-27-2010, 09:10 AM

This is a pretty good article and everything, but some of those lists are by far not representative of their respective archetypes. Bant Survival with CB/Top? Lolwut?

Also, gj taking credit for Jack Elgin's monowhite control.

Tychoides

01-27-2010, 10:08 AM

If you would like to read more about Stax I suggest http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?6044-[Deck]-Armageddon-Stax

Edit: you can't click the link, you'll have to copy+paste it into your browser.

You can click the link. ~Nightmare

Edit2: Oh right, apparently it fixes itself or something.

Heck of a thread! Thanks! :)

SpatulaOfTheAges

01-27-2010, 11:01 AM

Awesome.

Man that Enchantress list is so suboptimal. But it won, so I get why it's there.

AngryTroll

01-27-2010, 11:26 AM

One of the best Legacy Articles ever. Thanks, Steve, awesome job.

Anusien

01-27-2010, 12:15 PM

Are you looking at the decks that are winning or the decks that are present? Or some weird combination of both?

Loam doesn't have a single top 8. Merfolk has 3, NoGoyf and Zoo each have 2. Those are the only decks with > 1 placing.

I was simply going by #decks in the meta. This would push Counterbalance way down to like 4th or 5th place (from 1st) and drop Lands.dec from 6th to 12th or 15th. But if you're going straight by performance, then NoGoyf should be on top. It had the highest game win and match win percentage in both tournaments of any archetype. And then if you're going by performance and concentration in the meta, then probably Belcher would be much higher on the list, since it had a lot of plays and only had one sub-500 player as well as a couple top 8s/16s and then some people missing the money by tiebreakers (like 17th place).

So I guess it's not clear, but at any rate, which criteria are being used to select the list, but I can't think of any criteria that would put Counterbalance or Lands nearly that high on the list.

Which criteria are you actually looking at where Stephen is "spot-on"? Please be specific.
A bit late, but...

Late last year I looked at all the Legacy $5k Top8s we have data for. This was pre-LA, pre-Dallas. In terms of decks that Top8 consistently, those are the decks.

aTn

01-27-2010, 05:14 PM

Very nice article !

I hope it kills any other writer's urge to write "Intro. to Legacy" articles on SCG (at least for a while).

My only dissapointment is that only the SCG5k tournaments were taken into account in your "survey". That being said, I understand that having access to detailed metagame information for other large Legacy tournaments is hard. Other than that,I have minor complaints concerning some lists (which are a bit dated IMO), but I should shut up now.

Major props for the hard work and great job !

Smmenen

01-27-2010, 05:48 PM

Aggro_zombies

01-27-2010, 05:56 PM

This article should probably be added to the Required Reading thread. Even though it's not a strategy article, it is an excellent resource for assembling testing gauntlets and for people looking for more Legacy-specific content.

Bardo

01-27-2010, 06:32 PM

I created a locked sticy for the article in this forum.

Forbiddian

01-27-2010, 06:42 PM

Hahaha, shit. I got premium to read this article.

Oh well, I'm really glad this one is non-premium, I think it's a good resource for people interested in Legacy.

Jak

01-27-2010, 07:30 PM

Hahaha, shit. I got premium to read this article.

Oh well, I'm really glad this one is non-premium, I think it's a good resource for people interested in Legacy.

Same here, kind of dissapointed now that I spent 5 bucks. At least I can hope for more good material.

Brizzle

01-27-2010, 07:45 PM

Same here, kind of dissapointed now that I spent 5 bucks. At least I can hope for more good material.
I've never regretted having premium; even if it isn't about eternal formats, you can always read something useful to Magic in general.

Great article, Stephen. I'm making everyone in my playgroup read it.

Pastorofmuppets

01-27-2010, 10:09 PM

I stopped reading as soon as he listed Goyfolk as a definitive Merfs list. This guy has a few holes in his brain.

KrzyMoose

01-27-2010, 10:18 PM

I stopped reading as soon as he listed Goyfolk as a definitive Merfs list. This guy has a few holes in his brain.

These aren't supposed to be "definitive" lists. This is just a sampling of (nearly) every (remotely) competitive deck in the format. I'm not sure why people are getting so upset over the card choices. That's not even close to the point of the article.

Also, the top performing Merfolk list (2nd place) from the second-to-last 5k ran Goyfs.

Parcher

01-28-2010, 12:39 AM

I tried to make this article much more than an 'intro' article by providing uptodate statistics that show trend data, not just 'beginner' content. For example, the stats I cited and the matchup grid, which you can download within the article, are all new info.

Re: SCG tournaments. SCG tournaments are the largest Legacy tournaments in the US aside from Legacy Champs, which is only held once a year, so it made sense to use that as a resource.

Incorrect. Even excluding the Grand Prix, which is of course the largest, both of Eli Kassis' Lotus tournaments were larger than any SCG or Champs last year.

Skeggi

01-28-2010, 02:38 AM

I tried to make this article much more than an 'intro' article by providing uptodate statistics that show trend data, not just 'beginner' content. For example, the stats I cited and the matchup grid, which you can download within the article, are all new info.

Re: SCG tournaments. SCG tournaments are the largest Legacy tournaments in the US aside from Legacy Champs, which is only held once a year, so it made sense to use that as a resource.
I appreciate the amount of effert you no doubt have put in this. But next to the fact that this argument is flawed, do you have a legitimate reason to exclude the rest of the world? With GP Madrid coming up, I suspect there will be alot of interest in Europe.

FoulQ

01-28-2010, 02:47 AM

Probably because the most reliable and in-depth data came from the SCG events, like he has stated.

I agree with KrzyMoose, who really cares about the lists. They get the general idea out.

Skeggi

01-28-2010, 03:12 AM

How much depth do you need after number of attendants, top8+decklists and results of top8 matches?

MMogg

01-28-2010, 04:13 AM

I too agree with KrzyMoose that people are missing the point of the article, which was meant as an in-depth look at Legacy decks (by in-depth, I mean volume). The whole "How it works" theme was the backbone of the article and it was obviously a stepping on point to then explore the variations and possibilities of each deck type. I think we're all cognizant of the fact that each deck has its own Source thread with page upon page of discussion and arguing about what is optimal for each deck, so naturally there is debate about card choices. Even though he talked about Zoo Swordsing creatures and they don't really run Swords anymore as their primary white removal spell, I still get what the deck is meant to do.

Lots of work to do this even with limited stats, so good one. Any Sourcer complaining about stats is more than free to write his/her own breakdown of 51 Legacy decks from a larger pool of stats.

sco0ter

01-28-2010, 05:48 AM

The article is really one of the best and most comprehensive articles in recent times.
But unfortunately I miss some archetypes (most notable: Goyf Sligh, and some others like Bomberman, Baseruption, Eternal Garden, MGCA ...), which should have gotten precendence to some other less important decks I never saw or read about, like Ninjas, Black Weenie or The Pitch Deck.

Also the Survival archetype fall a bit short, while all the different Suicide decks got their own section.

nonetheless great work! Thanks.

Forbiddian

01-28-2010, 11:33 AM

How much depth do you need after number of attendants, top8+decklists and results of top8 matches?

Uh, complete metagame breakdown? Part of the article is a matchup grid analysis that needs hundreds of recorded matches to be useful.

...which should have gotten precendence to some other less important decks I never saw or read about, like Ninjas, Black Weenie or The Pitch Deck.

Incidentally, Ninjas! is famous for being the worst deck in the entire metagame. Two people played it, playing 6 or 7 matches collectively and only winning one GAME. Menendian doesn't mention that, since he only mentions good stuff about the decks, but I think it's pretty hilarious.

FoolofaTook

01-28-2010, 12:07 PM

Very nice article. My only criticism involves the title, it should have been: So Many Insane Plays - Your Complete Guide to Legacy: The 50 decks of Legacy on January 1st 2010. It'll be out of date by June is my guess. Small complaint though compared to the overall value in the article which is very strong.

Smmenen

01-28-2010, 01:45 PM

Incorrect. Even excluding the Grand Prix, which is of course the largest, both of Eli Kassis' Lotus tournaments were larger than any SCG or Champs last year.

Really? How big were Eli's tournaments?

Nightmare

01-28-2010, 01:49 PM

I think the first one was 132 players, and the second had about 170.

Edit - Verified numbers and corrected.

First one - Here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?12589-Lotus-Moxen-Bazaar-40-Duals!!!-May-30th-Binghamton-Jupiter-Games!&highlight=lotus)

Second - Here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?13846-November-14th-2009-Lotus-Moxen-Bazaar-Legacy-Jupiter-Games-in-Vestal-NY&highlight=lotus)

Parcher

01-28-2010, 02:02 PM

I guess I was wrong, but at least one was bigger. The other was about equal.

Smmenen

01-28-2010, 02:27 PM

SCG Boston had a 185 players.

Zilla

01-28-2010, 02:54 PM

Malakai

01-28-2010, 07:58 PM

This is super duper nitpicky, but UG Madness was the first UG Aggro Control deck in 1.5, not Thresh. Madness fell off the radar before the Hatfields ever popularized Thresh in 1.5 with their NQG deck.
And modern plays out very different than my beloved UGw thresh of old. None of that matters.

Thanks to Menendian for compiling this article, and to SCG for making it free. Hopefully it will continue to drive players to Legacy.

One thing I was disappointed with, however, was the lack of separation of Natural Order CounterTop decks and Supreme Blue style CounterTop decks. The NO version plays out as a sort of control/aggro/combo hybrid, whereas Supreme Blue constitutes one of the formats only control decks that still see play. It's not merely a cosmetic change either; Supreme Blue sports a much improved matchup against Goblins, and almost cannot lose to Zoo or Burn. It doesn't have the "oops I win" power of Natural Order into Progenitus, but it also doesn't have the "oops I lose" liability when NO gets countered.

mogote

01-30-2010, 03:30 AM

Same here, kind of dissapointed now that I spent 5 bucks. At least I can hope for more good material.
At first, I felt the same but in the end it's not that much and hopefully more interesting articles will be published in the coming weeks.

Waikiki

01-30-2010, 04:08 AM

Was a good read, some archetypes dp not look the way they should look and some credits are misplaced. But it was interesting to get a look at the differences between the US meta and the european one.

DrJones

02-01-2010, 12:52 PM

This article looks as useful as the gauntlet thread in wizards' legacy forum. That is, very useful. Congrats, Stephen!

*looks like my rogue deck (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?6110-The-Cure-%28Kavu-Predator-False-Cure%29) doesn't even make the Top 50, heh*

evilgorrilaz

02-04-2010, 06:18 PM

One thing I was disappointed with, however, was the lack of separation of Natural Order CounterTop decks and Supreme Blue style CounterTop decks. The NO version plays out as a sort of control/aggro/combo hybrid, whereas Supreme Blue constitutes one of the formats only control decks that still see play. It's not merely a cosmetic change either; Supreme Blue sports a much improved matchup against Goblins, and almost cannot lose to Zoo or Burn. It doesn't have the "oops I win" power of Natural Order into Progenitus, but it also doesn't have the "oops I lose" liability when NO gets countered.

The oops I lose Liability doesn't matter when facing Zoo or Goblins, for the most part.

Great article, although I would have loved to see something like NO Elves make the list (dark horse deck ftw).

Jon Stewart

02-05-2010, 11:11 AM

50+ decklists, that's quite an incredible amount of effort towards an admirable goal. Over all a fantastic article, though as others pointed out many of the list are suboptimal.

But OMG is that Pox list embarrasingly outdated!! And it wasn't even a tournament deck, it was a suggested deck, so why such an old decklist was chosen makes little sense.

Nether Void?
Rain of Tears?
Ice Quake?
Nantuko Shade?
Sphere of Resistence?

Nether Void, Ice Quake and Rain of Tears have been outdated for like 7+ years now. Almost every card in the deck except for Sinkhole is extremely suboptimal while far superior alternatives were completely ignored.

Cards like Smallpox and Tombstalker have been staples in the deck for many years now. Any single one of the decklists in the Pox thread or the BW Pox thread would have been a huge improvement over the list that was posted.

But inspite of that, fantastic article overall.